We have come to the point where extract beers can rival that of all grain. That said, you’re extract version is a prime example of why most of us who do extract have switched to late extract additions along with steeping our grains in a separate vessel. There’s no reason to add all of your extract at the beginning of the boil since it has already been boiled/dehydrated once, all your needing to do is sanitize it. Yours was probably so dark because it boiled for the full 60 minutes and caramelized and the resulting Maillard reaction caused the extract to come out darker. If you only use 10-15% of the extract in the beginning of boil to help with hop utilization and then add the rest in the last 15 minutes, it helps tremendously with color. Your end results would have been even harder to judge.
I’ve made several small batch brews using extract that turned out great. Extract helps keep things simple and for beers that don’t require a complex grain bill they’re a great alternative to all grain. Recently did an all grain saison with the French saison yeast from white labs that is phenomenal. Definitely going into the rotation for summer beers. Great video and content as always
I brewed all grain for 11 years and then switched to partial mash with 30 min grain steep and 30 min boil. I just use enough base malt in the mash to keep diastatic power high. I add all of my DME at flameout and then delay cooling for ~15 min to make sure it's pasteurized. Adding all extract at FO prevents darkening. I've submitted an extract Oktoberfest and a helles to competition and both scored in the 35-38 range!
Curious how using DME would have fared vs the LME. I always would add half at the beginning of the boil and half at 15 minutes whenever I made my extract batches.
Love love love Saisons in all forms. Wild ferment, clean, etc... All of the above. My favorite yeast is a blend. Start fermentation with 71B and let it ride for 36-48 hours. Then pitch french Saison (or equivalent) to finish it out. The 71B is very biotransformative so bonus fruity flavors from a heavy whirlpool. Comes out great. Dry, crisp, fruity, and phenolics are ever so slightly muted.
Huge saison apartment brewer here; Look into partial mash extract batches. Use your specialty grains as normal in the mash, then brew that. Convert your base malt to extract, using the internet to find that info. And to minimize color change, wait til the last minute at flameout to add your extract. But if you want that light light color, don’t use the liquid malt, use the extra light Pilsen dry malt extract. Just add it very gently. It really makes a difference in keeping that from looking as dark.
I consider myself a pretty dang good all grain saison maker, but the best one I ever made was with extract. Granted, it took around 9 months of aging to get there, but still. Fun video and excited for more.
Love your vids man, as someone not quite ready for the all grain yet, equipment wise, would you be able to point me in the direction of how to adjust a recipe from all grain to extract as you did here?
That's the hardest part! I think it's easier to just create your own extract recipes through trial and error or just use tried and true recipes from Craft Beer and Brewing or other sources like that. Most of the time there isn't necessarily a 1:1 conversion because extracts often have more than one grain in the mix
You should check John Palmer's How to brew. Chapter 4, pages 53-54, shows how to convert all-grain to malt extract including a weight for weight conversion table for several extracts.
Did you happen to get the finishing gravities on these? I'm curious to see how big of a difference there was. And just FYI, "wheat" extracts are typically 50% wheat 50% barley...The difference in your comparison though is likely negligible. Really enjoy these type of side-by-side experiments. I do a whole bunch of these myself.
The all grain was 1.007 (1 under estimate) and extract was 1.012 (1 over). Now I’m kind of curious if you can make beers indistinguishable from each other with extract and all grain but I bet that’d take a while to dial in
For someone who never brewed an extract brew, how much time can I expect to save? In total, brewing and clean up. The family just increased with one extra person and I'm struggling to find time to brew. :)
Not necessarily more work but work in general. There’s some opportunity cost involved. But yea sounds like you totally got it. Does the result warrant the effort to get there. A lot of people think extract isn’t even worth consideration
We have come to the point where extract beers can rival that of all grain. That said, you’re extract version is a prime example of why most of us who do extract have switched to late extract additions along with steeping our grains in a separate vessel. There’s no reason to add all of your extract at the beginning of the boil since it has already been boiled/dehydrated once, all your needing to do is sanitize it. Yours was probably so dark because it boiled for the full 60 minutes and caramelized and the resulting Maillard reaction caused the extract to come out darker. If you only use 10-15% of the extract in the beginning of boil to help with hop utilization and then add the rest in the last 15 minutes, it helps tremendously with color. Your end results would have been even harder to judge.
I'd love to see a video about your canning and labelling process!
Try using DME next time. It'll get the color closer to your all grain version. Thanks for the video!
Yessssss! Saison here we go bois!
Great comparison video, crazy difference in color!!
Insane lol probably should have adjusted the ratio but happy to know LME is worth exploring for some beers
Excellent experiment. Would love to see you do a brew with some harvested gueuze dregs.
Fingers crossed you have a yeast showdown coming up. 1 vote for adding Bootleg Parfait to the mix.
Got saison in the keg right now, brewed on my Anvil 6.5
I’ve made several small batch brews using extract that turned out great. Extract helps keep things simple and for beers that don’t require a complex grain bill they’re a great alternative to all grain. Recently did an all grain saison with the French saison yeast from white labs that is phenomenal. Definitely going into the rotation for summer beers. Great video and content as always
Hell yea! Cheers! 🍻
Great comparison nice job!
🙏🏼🍻
Yes! My two top styles, hazy now SAISON!! You have my full attention good sir, let it rip
I brewed all grain for 11 years and then switched to partial mash with 30 min grain steep and 30 min boil. I just use enough base malt in the mash to keep diastatic power high. I add all of my DME at flameout and then delay cooling for ~15 min to make sure it's pasteurized. Adding all extract at FO prevents darkening. I've submitted an extract Oktoberfest and a helles to competition and both scored in the 35-38 range!
Wow dude that’s impressive! I’m gonna have to give that a try!
This is the way 🤙
killer shots as always braj! I have this same video written down on the board. Extract is 100% underrated
Thanks dude! 100%
Curious how using DME would have fared vs the LME. I always would add half at the beginning of the boil and half at 15 minutes whenever I made my extract batches.
I’m curious now too! Someone said it’s better than LME and that sounds like a fun test
In my experience, DME at flameout is the best practice
killer content! let's get you on the livestream!
Thanks dude! Hell yea let’s party 🦦🍻
Very cool experiment! I’ve made some great beers using extract. I don’t have any issues using it, helps cut down on the length of brew day too!
Absolutely! There was a time I thought it wasn’t REAL brewing lol but who cares! If it’s good it’s good. Cheers man! 🍻
Love love love Saisons in all forms. Wild ferment, clean, etc... All of the above. My favorite yeast is a blend.
Start fermentation with 71B and let it ride for 36-48 hours. Then pitch french Saison (or equivalent) to finish it out. The 71B is very biotransformative so bonus fruity flavors from a heavy whirlpool. Comes out great. Dry, crisp, fruity, and phenolics are ever so slightly muted.
Sounds awesome! Hell yea 🍻
Great video! I’m planning on brewing a saison next, may have to go the extract route. I’ve only done all-grain so it may be worth trying!
Thanks Phil! Yea why not give it a try!
Huge saison apartment brewer here; Look into partial mash extract batches. Use your specialty grains as normal in the mash, then brew that. Convert your base malt to extract, using the internet to find that info. And to minimize color change, wait til the last minute at flameout to add your extract. But if you want that light light color, don’t use the liquid malt, use the extra light Pilsen dry malt extract. Just add it very gently. It really makes a difference in keeping that from looking as dark.
I consider myself a pretty dang good all grain saison maker, but the best one I ever made was with extract. Granted, it took around 9 months of aging to get there, but still. Fun video and excited for more.
Hell yea that’s cool to hear! It get a bad reputation but hey, if it works it works
Great video! Where did you order those great labels from?!
Thanks! I printed them myself at home!
Love your vids man, as someone not quite ready for the all grain yet, equipment wise, would you be able to point me in the direction of how to adjust a recipe from all grain to extract as you did here?
That's the hardest part! I think it's easier to just create your own extract recipes through trial and error or just use tried and true recipes from Craft Beer and Brewing or other sources like that. Most of the time there isn't necessarily a 1:1 conversion because extracts often have more than one grain in the mix
@@HopsANDgnarly thanks brother
You should check John Palmer's How to brew. Chapter 4, pages 53-54, shows how to convert all-grain to malt extract including a weight for weight conversion table for several extracts.
Great video as always. Do you think the extract batch was just darker or did you get some kettle caramelization?
I think the malt to LME just wasn’t an equal comparison so I probably shouldn’t have done the same 80/20 mix on both batches
Did you happen to get the finishing gravities on these? I'm curious to see how big of a difference there was. And just FYI, "wheat" extracts are typically 50% wheat 50% barley...The difference in your comparison though is likely negligible. Really enjoy these type of side-by-side experiments. I do a whole bunch of these myself.
The all grain was 1.007 (1 under estimate) and extract was 1.012 (1 over). Now I’m kind of curious if you can make beers indistinguishable from each other with extract and all grain but I bet that’d take a while to dial in
For someone who never brewed an extract brew, how much time can I expect to save? In total, brewing and clean up.
The family just increased with one extra person and I'm struggling to find time to brew. :)
It saves at least an hour since there’s no mash and you don’t have to clean out the grain basket so maybe another 5-10 min. Congrats! That’s awesome 🍻
Doesn't 'WORTH IT' imply that there is more work involved?
I think the point is more can you use extract and make good saison?
Not necessarily more work but work in general. There’s some opportunity cost involved. But yea sounds like you totally got it. Does the result warrant the effort to get there. A lot of people think extract isn’t even worth consideration
Usually wheat extract is 50% pils, double check with the manufacturer
Do you think they do that for enzymes? I’d love to see some craft maltsters get into extract
To cool