Theres no way you can pay Broberg more then Bouchard and the Oilers sent that message.... Broberg didnt have enough games to warrant that gamble... It sucks losing him but logically you cant take the risk and lose the dressing room to money like Toronto did.
Well BROBERG was a big asset defensively and he was great physically and scored goals. With BOUCH, it was the bouch bomb that either went in or sailed wide…he also passed the puck too much like a hot potato . Let’s not forget that PAUL COFFEY had a lot to do with the defense. His coaching style and ability to channel it to players was incredible. I wonder how BROBERG will do in St. LOUIS NOW or will he be singing the BLUES. Also there are a lot of Swedes on the team in St. LOUIS.
@@charleskletter8974 Bouch, as he stands, is a defensive dunce. Dude be hand-delivering pucks to the opposition behind the blue. He looks borderline scared with the puck in the D zone. The team had their best shot the last 2 seasons--24-25, 2nd round, tops.
@@ninjapumkin I called out that 🤡 years ago...initially complimenting him on his Battle of Alberta book. He wouldn't answer to my criticisms of some cheapshots he took at a HOF Oiler. As a consequence, I emailed his office, so they could ALL share in his unprofessional conduct...making money from slandering others.
I’m a fan of letting both players walk. Not because I didn’t like them, but because the added cap space means the Oilers can go big game hunting and fit in someone truly special. For the first time in years the Oilers can swing for the fences at the deadline and get one or two players to put them over the top.
When was the last time going all in at the deadline actually helped a team win? It’s actually pretty rare. Stanley Cup winners don’t get made at the deadline. They’re usually already a winner and maybe add a key piece or two, but it’s usually not the big names.
@@marshallmykietyshyn4973 I get what you’re saying. It’s just now they can go out and add those players. I look at the moves Colorado made at the deadline a few years ago, bringing in Josh Manson and Lehkonen. Another example is Tampa bay back to back, the hawks did it, Vegas did it?? So that’s just going back 4 seasons I can keep bringing up more and more
@@dredd2225 Oh god get off your high horse already Stan Bowman wasn't the perpetrator and he only got a snippet of what happened from his boss who told him that he'll handle it for the organization and he obviously didn't
@@dredd2225 That's actually not true, follow the interviews. When he found out, he called formal meetings. His boss, President of Hockey Ops, told him that he (the boss was going to take care of this). Within weeks Aldrich was gone. I suppose that he could have gone over his boss' head, maybe he could have followed up more and he admitted that, but what you have stated is not true. Your opinion, but a revisionist, just sayin'.
Holloway 18 career points. Broberg 13 career points. Imagine offering a rookie 4.5+ for 13 career points. Oilers fans who understand the big picture are laughing historically at the Blues right now. Quite the gamble by Armstrong
In a salary cap era, the money available is what drives decisions. He had to let them go in order to re-sign Leon and add new pieces to the puzzle! The Oilers are contenders for the Cup this year. Don't lose sight of the big picture!!!
@kyleespersen8878 why do you believe, as long McDavid and Draisaitl are here in Edmonton the Oilers will always be a cup contenter.. and the Oilers have a future and they can win it.. this team believes in ecother and this Is a winning team, it's really the defense that needs to be upgraded. And as long the blue line do there job and Skinner keeps being 900 900+ goaltender and pickard is amazing back up. And they have the best Offence in the NHL.. they can do it
@@colbystruble2893 To continue to win, you need talented young players on cheap contracts to achieve this. Edmonton just lost 2 such players due to Holland and Jeff Jackson's mismanagement by not signing them last year. Every mediocre or old veteran you bring in will be expensive. The Defence is weaker now, -2 regulars in Ceci and Desharnais and -1 future player in Broberg. They will need to acquire another top 4 dman this season and you will acquire that how? By trading picks and prospects because any roster move further weakens the team. Bowman will need to make some moves during the season because there's nothing in the organisation to shore up the D. You have too many veteran forwards so none of the young forwards will play unless an injury. The young forwards in the organisation are not ready. Holloway was the young forward NHL ready and even he was not a sure bet to do anything but 3rd line work
It does stink letting Broberg walk given his potential, but the high price coupled with his disdain for being sent down last year made it a no deal situation in my eyes. Good luck in STL guys.
And don't forget - we did try to move him (as reported anyway) and Holland was looking for a 2nd round pick - there were no takers at that time. 10 playoff games don't really equate to what St.Louis offered - my bet is they will regret it -he'll play for sure, but I don't think at this point in his career is a 4.58M dollar player. He's a 3rd pairing guy
I think you did a great job under the circumstances Stan….welcome to Edmonton. You have inherited some difficult circumstances to a point but this club has a ton of potential and time will be our friend. With the work you and Jeff have done we are in a great position to balance the wage sheet and entice our core players to want to stay affordably. You have left us, finally, with multiple avenues to move forward. Hopefully the press will warm up to you and your staff. They seem rude and standoff-ish at times. They are always looking for a sound bite.
After listening to Stan give an explanation of the situation there in I feel the management of the Oilers have made a good decision on giving Stan another kick at the cat. The trades occurred and now they have to put there gloves on and show us how their going to get the CUP. Let's Go Oiler's.
If they don't wanna play here then be gone. Management did a good job handling the whole thing. Emberson might be better than broberg and podkolzin isn't worse than holloway so..
Holloway didn’t wanna leave he wanted to get paid. Wouldn’t you take a job that was offering 150k a year when your current company was only offering you 75k?
@@jakedebo3416 Which team went to the Cup Finals most recently? (aka which of the two teams is most likely to win it before the other) The reality is that the Oilers are closer to a Stanley Cup than the Blues. If you’re going to bring up history, the Oilers have 5 Cups… so 4 more to go 🤷♂️
I agree completely with the decision. If you are up against the cap and are close to winning, you have to be willing to forego allocating larger cap hits to players who are not of high importance in order to resign your core players.
I was skeptical of Bowman, but seeing him handle this situation so well and setting the Oilers up to add major upgrades at the deadline gives me a lot of confidence in the entire front office Jeff Jackson is building. Happy to finally have sound minds running the organization for the first time in a decade.
So, Broberg only played 12 reg season games. Period, what Broberg did in playoffs was only after NOT having to play 82 games. The question will be, who does Bowman replace Ceci's 79 games with? and replace him affordably.
Oilers fans must put their faith in Bowman and Jackson. These guys have the best interest of the team in mind. They want the cup just as bad as we do. I’m excited for the season.
Here’s the killer…Broberg played 30 games (10 reg, 20 playoff). Had he played 1 less game (29), teams would not have been able to give him an offer sheet…
For me, it comes down to this. Those offer sheets didn't sign themselves. I don't want guys on this team that put their own greed and/or egos, ahead of their team and/or teammates. This is to say nothing of the hysterically bad contract, that will be Broberg in the coming two seasons. These guys chose short term gains, over their team, especially knowing how exposed this franchise is right now, to be playing these types of games with the cap in mind. Good move in letting them both walk. In another 6 - 8 months, most every fan of this team, will be glad you did. 🍻
@user-sd8ug2kb2l many would. These are people that have rhe ability to see long term gain over short term benefit. One group is smart, the other group is stupid. Guess which one you're in? Go watch Bustbergs interview with St Loo media....kid looks lile he's going to cry. He gambled....and he lost. He just pissed away tens of millions and multiple shots at a Cup for a few bucks to play on a bottom feeder.
The Oilers couldn't afford to make the same mistake twice. When Klefbom went down, nurse had an excellent playoff on a contract year. He then got overpaid and has not played to the potential for the amount of money he makes. Broberg didn't have a good regular season just a pretty good playoff. Not worth the risk.
As much I am sad that they didnt match the offer, it is what it is, its a smart move to not match the offer, because organization considering their future.. thats matured decision and I understand it.
Let's give him a chance. Seems like logic based decisions. I would have liked to keep Holloway but i get why they let him go. We are not offense starved. If kane plays at full potential he is amazing. Our defense just needs to be more reliable. If Nurse is playing well he is great. We just need coaching to work with them to get that consistency.
Its objectively the right thing too do in this situation. We have 2 players whom nethier of have played a full season. Both have under 30 points combined in there early careers. Why would anyone spend that amount of money? Even more for the oilers when their cap is this tight. It just would not make since matching ethier of them at that price.
People forget the reason you have a cap problem is because you have great players who need to be paid. That's not a bad problem. Bouchard will improve more and more. That's how you offset "loses" on D. Having a higher top end with Bouchard and Skinner to compliment McDavid and Draisatl is how they will win the cup. Having or not having Ceci or not Emberson won't make a difference as you saw with just "finding" Broberg in the playoffs.
I hope Holloway enjoys his new team, because he will never be an Oiler again. Decisions have consequences. Holloway bled copper and blue. It was his dream to be an Oiler. And for a lousy million bucks, counting on the Oilers matching, he'll now have to live with the fact that he'll never put on an Oiler jersey ever again. Enjoy your short term vision money Holloway. My only advice to Holloway when he puts on the St Louis jersey for the first time is to pick up the phone and fire his agent for conning Holloway to take the money and flush his dream down the toilet for a quick buck. The Oilers have a whole new reason to get to the 2025 cup final. To make it all sting just a little more. As for Broberg. The St. Louis Blues suckered themselves by dishing out such an overpay, one could say it's one of the most unproven NHL over pays in the last 5 years. It sure looks like Armstrong and Holland went to the same GM University. The Armstrong Broberg show and the Holland Campbell Nurse show. These guys are the Kings of the over pay. When you give a kid with an ego (Broberg) the keys to a brand new Lambo after being stuck driving a Prius for the past 5 years it usually never turns out well. Go Oilers!
Hahahaha. Holloways dream was to be an Oiler. Too bad Edmonton didn’t feel the same. They lowballed him. Don’t blame the players for finding better deals.
This is the BEST comment in this whole pile! Really well said. I am sad and disappointed that Holloway decided to go. Had he stayed and continued to play well, he would have soon enough be making better money. Not sure where his head has been these past few weeks but definitely not around winning a Stanley Cup championship or having the opportunity to play with the best two hockey players this side of St. Louis!!😁
good interview. holloway is replaceable. again unproven NHL player asking for too much. Broberg i think took some good steps in playoffs, but hasn’t played a full NHL season. big price tag for that.
He wasnt asking for anything it was st louis who wanted him because they saw what edmonton was doing to him trying to stunt his development to keep his salsary low
@mikesmyth5833 everyone knows the Blues overpaid but they were paying for the potential in Broberg. Holloway will get more playing time in St.Louis and will hopefully be a Top 9 guy. Doug Armstrong took advantage of the Oilers cap issues and took two first round players for a 2nd and 3rd
No one knows the future. Those 2 players have no idea how long they'll be able to play in the NHL...hopefuly it's a long time. But in case it isn't, they have real pressure to maximize their compensation when they can. But nothing comes free. Perhaps they'll both someday look back on strong, lucrative careers but regret that the closest they ever came to winning a Cup -- eventually making even more money because of it --- was to have stayed with this great team, on the cusp, for another year or two. Good luck to everyone involved.
No. That's not what happened. Broberg decided to go play on a garbage team instead of playing with elite players gunning for a cup. He clearly values money more than winning, Cups and legacy. HEA decided to join a team whose best player is Robert Thomas lol. Signing Skinner had NOTHING to do with Bustberg leaving
@@johanstinson Math: the $3m on Skinner would have been more than enough to not lowball Broberg, who in my viewing was a bit of a revelation in the finals. Now he’s gone.
@pjmmaloney4458 he wasn't lowballed. He's played 12 NHL games (could be wrong). He looked good in the playoffs, sure......that was after not playing for 6 weeks and being extremely rested while everyone else was dead tired from 2 months of playoff hockey. Broberg was offered his qualifying offer....which is exactly what he deserved. No more, no less. Besides all that, I don't want a player on my team that would rather make 5 million on a bottom feeder than compete for the Cup and sign a big deal in 2 years. Nothing Broberg has done qualified him for special treatment.
@@johanstinson Fair point, but I thought he looked very good in the finals, which suggests he was mishandled all season. And clearly Doug Armstrong felt the same way and he’s ten times the GM Stan Bowman ever has been
Stop it with the virtue signaling. You don't give a crap about Kyle Beach. You're just saying things that may get you some street cred from other basement-dwellers.
Why doesn't anyone asked why they didn't sign these 2 players a lot sooner. Now we lost 3 defenseman from last year's team and we are better? Lol this organization is a joke
Do we like Bowman? I’m not sure just yet. Watching him speak he looks like he doesn’t want to be there. Can’t stop thinking about what he didn’t do in Chicago as the boss.
But, being realistic, Now will he, or can he trade Nurse... What a sh!t end of the stick contract it is... way to weigh the team down with greed... we dont need a nurse we need a doctor
I knew prior Oilers wouldn't match the offer had to create movement for Leon and ,Oilers are tapped out on their cap...This decision had to of happened to send players to the Blues which were asking too much , knowing they are working on Leon's signing
Core group still hasn’t changed. Still as good as last year which is only a goal away from a cup. Younger players you can still slot in come trade deadline. I don’t think it’s as big a deal as some may make it.
Can't do any worse than Chia or the old boys club. Has Stan been drinking the water..... is Reider to blame? broberg and holloway will be replaced by more immediate impact players. Once again, it Cup or Bust!
How dramatic. You are happy with the players "Who stood up for themselves", What a strange way to put that. They were approached by a Gm that overpaid one 2 times what he was worth and the other 4 times what he was worth. The player took the overpayment offered. Simple as that. You act like the Oilers are the first team in a winning window that put the squeeze on their RFA.
@@trevorl3555 EXCELLENT comeback. Looks like @maxpayne7419 doesn't really know what he's talking about. It's not like Broberg & Holloway are 'bonified' NHL players who've been around for years & really proven themselves. That being said, I really liked Holloway & his play. Too bad so sad!
@Simple_101 . How so? As a young player would you want to play under a GM who doesn't care about your well-being? Bowman has already proven that player safety doesn't mean a damn to him.
Broberg was injected into the line deep into the playoffs during a time when everyone was gassed and playing with broken ribs and feet while he was at 100% and rested. For that reason I don't put much stock into the 1 small sample size he had, the games he did play during the regular season were quite disappointing...Holloway also had a good run in the playoffs however regular season over his 90ish games he's a 1 goal per 10 games scorer....Im not impressed by those stats from anyone making over a league minimum salary
Your average pessimistic 30+ year Oilers fan here. So Mr, Bowman has how many cups? 3? And there is one other GM in history who has also? What do would you set as the probability of any GM winning 4 Stanley Cups? I know little of Bowman, and certainly no opinion of qualifications either way, but I wouldn't have hired him for that statistic alone. I mean it could happen lol, idk.
They just let 2, 1st rounders walk right out the door. No wonder they haven't had a cup in so long. You don't draft 1st rounders and then let another team come in and grab them after you've developed them for 3 or 4 years. Edmonton won't get back to the cup in 25' with that kind of thinking.
Guys I am a big time Blues fan and live in STL. This was well thought out by your GM who comes from good stock. I was around when Scotty Bowman coached the blues in our first few years of service. You have a good GM and a great team so good luck this year.
Lots of crap holland put oilers through stupid signings and not signing players, and even though they went to the cup final last year they still lost, this team is made to win a Cup NOW. Lets see what we can do to fix the cap issues which holland put us in, defense is very thin now lets see what bowman does.
You do understand that Stan Bowman signed Seth Jones to that big contract in the same off-season that Nurse had to be signed - check it out. He forced Holland into a no win situation - Nurse had had a couple of good seasons and wanted to be paid after two (I believe) bridge contracts. Was $9.25M too high. Yes. But you're looking at THE guy who set the precedent. Also, once JJ got to the Oilers he was calling all the shots. Holland, then became the lame duck executive, not making any decisions only being the face of the GM. That's my take on this.
It's almost like it makes it easier for them to comment on players they are very familiar with... and news alert... so far the recent pick ups have worked out pretty damn well.
And, the time a team must wait until those picks are ready to play in the nhl… you maybe waiting until 2030 before to see what we actually got for these picks…
"A business decision".. No they just couldn't match lol. He is a good GM, grate at going around the bush. Yall are screwd lol no trade equity spending all your money on three players. Grabbing a bunch of older and untested youngins... Rebuild incoming!! The one that got me the best. "Edmonton is a destination that players want to come to play hockey". That is the biggest load of BS I've ever heard a GM in Canada say. Nobody in the US wants to play and move to Canada unless there from their. Its like a running joke in the US
Yes and no. You spelt great wrong also. Stan is not very well respected I get that, and he has screwed teams over before. Fully understand. But the thing is he did the right thing by letting them go, also what do you mean spending all our money on three players? You mean keeping the best player in the league one our team? Or drai who is at least top five? Bouchard is the only other one i can think of and he is to say the least an elite defence men. Soooooo...
I was GOING to ask Santa for a Holloway jersey. I don’t care about any reason NOT keeping him around. Don’t wanna hear it. Should’ve kept Holloway. Miss you Ken!
Shouldn’t have hired Stan.. he is always going to be coming from a position of weakness after Chicago. Desperately trying to get back respect and like ability from other GMs, he will always be coming from a position of weakness.
Correct your position of weakness right now; Every kiddie living in mommy's basement's gonna play armchair President/GM 💤 You’re obviously a youngster not versed in Oiler history. A young Mac-T did time for vehicular homicide. Glen Sather rescued his career…Craig won the Stanley Cup four times (1987, 1988, 1990, 1994). He also became Oiler captain, coach, GM & President. Also earned a Masters in Business at the U of A.
@@loilt5091 STFU, Stan knew about an SA on his watch , his boss told him he was dealing with it big fuckin deal he did nothing. I guess if it was one if your kids you’d be good with the cover up Doesn’t excuse him. Well aware of what happened with Mac T. GFY
@@tequila6306 That's how i feel about the hiring. Not happy with it, but it is what it is. Hope he does wel at the job and the Oilers win a few Cups with him here.
@@tequila6306 I agree. Would it have been ideal to sign them before being offer sheeted? Yeah, 100%. They also went out and got players that can replace the losses, built cap space, and got a couple additional assets from St. Louis because of those trades. Made the best out of a bad situation. Now gimme that Drai extension so i can be genuinely happy :D
@antiprogpragmatist859 Your opinion isn't needed either I guess but that's why we live in a free country. Why not consider the victims he knew were being abused. Stan Bowman, former general manager of the Chicago Blackhawks, was primarily accused of mishandling allegations of sexual assault within the organization. The controversy revolves around an incident in 2010 involving former Blackhawks video coach Brad Aldrich and a player, Kyle Beach. Beach alleged that Aldrich sexually assaulted him during the team's playoff run. The accusations against Bowman are centered on his role in the organization's response to these allegations. It was reported that Bowman, along with other members of the Blackhawks' leadership team, became aware of the allegations but chose not to take immediate action, allowing Aldrich to remain with the team during their Stanley Cup run. This alleged inaction and failure to protect Beach and others from potential harm led to significant criticism. An independent investigation commissioned by the Blackhawks and conducted by the law firm Jenner & Block concluded that the team's leadership, including Bowman, did not take adequate action in response to the allegations. As a result of the findings, Bowman resigned from his position as general manager in October 2021. The controversy had significant repercussions for the organization and led to broader discussions about accountability and player safety within professional sports.
@@BlueskyGladue.. “why not consider the victims he knew were being abused”…for one thing, I believe there was only one victim that Bowman knew about..secondly, I did consider the victim. His name is Kyle Beach (I mentioned his name in my previous reply) and he has forgiven Bowman and he has endorsed him to return to the nhl. Sheldon Kennedy, an abuse survivor from many years ago also endorses Bowman. So yeah…their opinions carry more weight than yours…..btw, I didn’t offer an opinion, Poindexter
Just terrible management. The point is we had 2 high value 1st round picks and we literally got nothing for them. Everyone was so big on broberg "oh hes the next klefbom" "oh we got a hedman finally" now look even trading bourgeult for most likely another puljujarvi. Fans want the cup not the management. Then we hire this clown bowman.
Every kiddie living in mommy's basement's gonna play armchair President/GM 💤 3️⃣1️⃣st on Nov. 12, to Game 7️⃣ & a goal from the Grail. Ya, you know-it-all... 🙄 🇨🇦
Theres no way you can pay Broberg more then Bouchard and the Oilers sent that message.... Broberg didnt have enough games to warrant that gamble... It sucks losing him but logically you cant take the risk and lose the dressing room to money like Toronto did.
Sadly Bouchard may never find his next gear, it seems like he’s a little slow like almost just in every category when it matters
Its ok dude. Broberg will flourish in st louis
Well BROBERG was a big asset defensively and he was great physically and scored goals. With BOUCH, it was the bouch bomb that either went in or sailed wide…he also passed the puck too much like a hot potato . Let’s not forget that PAUL COFFEY had a lot to do with the defense. His coaching style and ability to channel it to players was incredible. I wonder how BROBERG will do in St. LOUIS NOW or will he be singing the BLUES. Also there are a lot of Swedes on the team in St. LOUIS.
Players can have good stretches for a small period of time. Ever wonder why broberg wasn't a regular already?
@@charleskletter8974 Bouch, as he stands, is a defensive dunce. Dude be hand-delivering pucks to the opposition behind the blue. He looks borderline scared with the puck in the D zone. The team had their best shot the last 2 seasons--24-25, 2nd round, tops.
spector didn't even hear the answer, he passed out and fell off his chair when bowman said "good question mark"
Spec is only a fan of himself. Hope he blocks me on YT as well. Can not take constructive criticism
@@ninjapumkin
I called out that 🤡 years ago...initially complimenting him on his Battle of Alberta book. He wouldn't answer to my criticisms of some cheapshots he took at a HOF Oiler. As a consequence, I emailed his office, so they could ALL share in his unprofessional conduct...making money from slandering others.
😂😂😂😂
@@dizawnofwizar
SPECT🤡R
@@ninjapumkin Are you a ninja? Or a pumpkin? Because those together just don't work!! Don't sneak up on me and kill me, if you're really a ninja. :)
I’m a fan of letting both players walk. Not because I didn’t like them, but because the added cap space means the Oilers can go big game hunting and fit in someone truly special.
For the first time in years the Oilers can swing for the fences at the deadline and get one or two players to put them over the top.
When was the last time going all in at the deadline actually helped a team win? It’s actually pretty rare.
Stanley Cup winners don’t get made at the deadline. They’re usually already a winner and maybe add a key piece or two, but it’s usually not the big names.
@@marshallmykietyshyn4973 I mean, the Oilers have a track record of making ‘Big Splashes’ at the trade deadline.
@@marshallmykietyshyn4973 I get what you’re saying. It’s just now they can go out and add those players.
I look at the moves Colorado made at the deadline a few years ago, bringing in Josh Manson and Lehkonen.
Another example is Tampa bay back to back, the hawks did it, Vegas did it?? So that’s just going back 4 seasons I can keep bringing up more and more
Overpaying players rarely works out.
First time in years? We acquired Ekholm at the deadline 2 seasons ago, that massively improved our blue line lol. But I agree
I'm glad we finally have adults running the organization. Well considered and practical without being overly emotional or reactive. Good job.
@@brianlaberge5817 adult? He kewn players were being sexually abused. And ignored it! He should not be in the nhl
@@dredd2225the way he has taken steps afterwards is very responsible of him
@@dredd2225 Oh god get off your high horse already Stan Bowman wasn't the perpetrator and he only got a snippet of what happened from his boss who told him that he'll handle it for the organization and he obviously didn't
@@dredd2225 That's actually not true, follow the interviews. When he found out, he called formal meetings. His boss, President of Hockey Ops, told him that he (the boss was going to take care of this). Within weeks Aldrich was gone. I suppose that he could have gone over his boss' head, maybe he could have followed up more and he admitted that, but what you have stated is not true. Your opinion, but a revisionist, just sayin'.
@@drogontargaryen3428idk what kind of horrible person u are where r@pe is a high horse thing. U might just need to be locked up
Intelligent decision making. Good logic, well thought out, and clearly articulated.
Holloway 18 career points. Broberg 13 career points. Imagine offering a rookie 4.5+ for 13 career points. Oilers fans who understand the big picture are laughing historically at the Blues right now. Quite the gamble by Armstrong
Not laughing until I see what they do full season. Until then, reserving judgement.
Its 2 years....
Bro wrote this thinking he was a genius. Tf do u understand about the “big picture”😂😂😂
Really appreciate the explanation and sound thinking
In a salary cap era, the money available is what drives decisions. He had to let them go in order to re-sign Leon and add new pieces to the puzzle! The Oilers are contenders for the Cup this year. Don't lose sight of the big picture!!!
Screw that we are done now we have no future
@kyleespersen8878 why do you believe, as long McDavid and Draisaitl are here in Edmonton the Oilers will always be a cup contenter.. and the Oilers have a future and they can win it.. this team believes in ecother and this Is a winning team, it's really the defense that needs to be upgraded. And as long the blue line do there job and Skinner keeps being 900 900+ goaltender and pickard is amazing back up. And they have the best Offence in the NHL.. they can do it
@@colbystruble2893
To continue to win, you need talented young players on cheap contracts to achieve this. Edmonton just lost 2 such players due to Holland and Jeff Jackson's mismanagement by not signing them last year.
Every mediocre or old veteran you bring in will be expensive. The Defence is weaker now, -2 regulars in Ceci and Desharnais and -1 future player in Broberg. They will need to acquire another top 4 dman this season and you will acquire that how? By trading picks and prospects because any roster move further weakens the team.
Bowman will need to make some moves during the season because there's nothing in the organisation to shore up the D. You have too many veteran forwards so none of the young forwards will play unless an injury. The young forwards in the organisation are not ready. Holloway was the young forward NHL ready and even he was not a sure bet to do anything but 3rd line work
Actually a well thought out articulated interview & I’m a Blues fan
It does stink letting Broberg walk given his potential, but the high price coupled with his disdain for being sent down last year made it a no deal situation in my eyes. Good luck in STL guys.
And don't forget - we did try to move him (as reported anyway) and Holland was looking for a 2nd round pick - there were no takers at that time. 10 playoff games don't really equate to what St.Louis offered - my bet is they will regret it -he'll play for sure, but I don't think at this point in his career is a 4.58M dollar player. He's a 3rd pairing guy
I think you did a great job under the circumstances Stan….welcome to Edmonton. You have inherited some difficult circumstances to a point but this club has a ton of potential and time will be our friend. With the work you and Jeff have done we are in a great position to balance the wage sheet and entice our core players to want to stay affordably. You have left us, finally, with multiple avenues to move forward. Hopefully the press will warm up to you and your staff. They seem rude and standoff-ish at times. They are always looking for a sound bite.
the right decision was to walk away, but the Oilers usually don't do the right thing.
The right decision was to develop 2 (high 1st round picks) and get rid of them for a 2nd and 3rd. Makes total sense!
Good luck with Bowman in Edmonton! He helped ruin the Blackhawks with awful trades largely bad drafts and some really bad contract extensions.
@@paulciavardoni8069ya not excited. Horrible person and gm.
After listening to Stan give an explanation of the situation there in I feel the management of the Oilers have made a good decision on giving Stan another kick at the cat. The trades occurred and now they have to put there gloves on and show us how their going to get the CUP. Let's Go Oiler's.
@@davidkaliczak9373
🦵🥫
If they don't wanna play here then be gone. Management did a good job handling the whole thing. Emberson might be better than broberg and podkolzin isn't worse than holloway so..
Holloway didn’t wanna leave he wanted to get paid. Wouldn’t you take a job that was offering 150k a year when your current company was only offering you 75k?
@@aceshighnickrather than win a Stanley Cup? I’d rather have loyalty to winning than loyalty to money.
@@aceshighnickIf that meant winning the Stanley Cup or going to a mid level team? Yeah. I’d take the pay cut for one season.
@keithbott7978 remind me which one of these teams won a cup within the last 30 years
@@jakedebo3416
Which team went to the Cup Finals most recently? (aka which of the two teams is most likely to win it before the other)
The reality is that the Oilers are closer to a Stanley Cup than the Blues.
If you’re going to bring up history, the Oilers have 5 Cups… so 4 more to go 🤷♂️
I agree completely with the decision. If you are up against the cap and are close to winning, you have to be willing to forego allocating larger cap hits to players who are not of high importance in order to resign your core players.
I was skeptical of Bowman, but seeing him handle this situation so well and setting the Oilers up to add major upgrades at the deadline gives me a lot of confidence in the entire front office Jeff Jackson is building. Happy to finally have sound minds running the organization for the first time in a decade.
Good interview STAN 👍
So, Broberg only played 12 reg season games. Period, what Broberg did in playoffs was only after NOT having to play 82 games. The question will be, who does Bowman replace Ceci's 79 games with? and replace him affordably.
Ceci and broberg are getting replaced by emberson and stecher
Btw I think the will replace stecher at the trade deadline
@@scout8424if oil get a good showing from any of the 3 new defenders in the first half of the year it’ll def make the trade deadline look different.
@@scout8424 St Louis really was really excited to get Broberg . .... Well maybe lesson learned is to not lose heart in Bowman??
Oilers fans must put their faith in Bowman and Jackson. These guys have the best interest of the team in mind. They want the cup just as bad as we do. I’m excited for the season.
Here’s the killer…Broberg played 30 games (10 reg, 20 playoff). Had he played 1 less game (29), teams would not have been able to give him an offer sheet…
not a bad interview.i mean i get it .
For me, it comes down to this. Those offer sheets didn't sign themselves. I don't want guys on this team that put their own greed and/or egos, ahead of their team and/or teammates. This is to say nothing of the hysterically bad contract, that will be Broberg in the coming two seasons.
These guys chose short term gains, over their team, especially knowing how exposed this franchise is right now, to be playing these types of games with the cap in mind.
Good move in letting them both walk. In another 6 - 8 months, most every fan of this team, will be glad you did. 🍻
Not sure about Broberg, but I absolutely agree on Holloway
Cmon…like any of us would have turned down double the money. Let’s be honest here.
@user-sd8ug2kb2l many would. These are people that have rhe ability to see long term gain over short term benefit.
One group is smart, the other group is stupid. Guess which one you're in? Go watch Bustbergs interview with St Loo media....kid looks lile he's going to cry. He gambled....and he lost. He just pissed away tens of millions and multiple shots at a Cup for a few bucks to play on a bottom feeder.
What did mcgreedy do? He took all the money, same as Nurse. Don’t start talking about being greedy with just 2 guys now boy
Respect Bowman 👍🏻
I hope Drai gets 14+ Million
@@sukhjitsingh8269you a Blues fan? Looking for more offer sheet opportunities? lol
The Oilers couldn't afford to make the same mistake twice. When Klefbom went down, nurse had an excellent playoff on a contract year. He then got overpaid and has not played to the potential for the amount of money he makes. Broberg didn't have a good regular season just a pretty good playoff. Not worth the risk.
As much I am sad that they didnt match the offer, it is what it is, its a smart move to not match the offer, because organization considering their future.. thats matured decision and I understand it.
GoOilersGo!
Pre-Season soon!!
Let’s get this show in the road.
Cup with come back!!!
✌🏼💪✌🏼
Let's give him a chance. Seems like logic based decisions. I would have liked to keep Holloway but i get why they let him go. We are not offense starved. If kane plays at full potential he is amazing. Our defense just needs to be more reliable. If Nurse is playing well he is great. We just need coaching to work with them to get that consistency.
Like this ❤,lots of fans are crying about Holloway and broberg, I’d rather cry about them now than cry about when there’s no cap for draisaitl
Truth!! They were not going to be our make it or break it players for the cup!
Thank you, I'm glad to see some positivity in this comment section. I expected it to be a war in here, but most people seem supportive.
Stan is awesome!! Glad not everyone Oilers fan doesn't live with their head perpetually up their a$$
Quite frankly after what he had a role in he just doesn’t deserve to be in the nhl. Only 32 gms and he shouldn’t be one.
Love you Stan❤ miss you!!!
dudes trying to explain why he didnt sign a 14th overall and 8th overall pick
I know im late. But what do you mean?
Its objectively the right thing too do in this situation. We have 2 players whom nethier of have played a full season. Both have under 30 points combined in there early careers. Why would anyone spend that amount of money? Even more for the oilers when their cap is this tight. It just would not make since matching ethier of them at that price.
I feel they made the right decision, Broberg wasn't happy and Holloway a good player but has been hurt in the past because of his play.
Stan knows what he is doing 👍👍
People forget the reason you have a cap problem is because you have great players who need to be paid. That's not a bad problem. Bouchard will improve more and more. That's how you offset "loses" on D. Having a higher top end with Bouchard and Skinner to compliment McDavid and Draisatl is how they will win the cup. Having or not having Ceci or not Emberson won't make a difference as you saw with just "finding" Broberg in the playoffs.
Great work and I like the decision
I hope Holloway enjoys his new team, because he will never be an Oiler again. Decisions have consequences. Holloway bled copper and blue. It was his dream to be an Oiler. And for a lousy million bucks, counting on the Oilers matching, he'll now have to live with the fact that he'll never put on an Oiler jersey ever again. Enjoy your short term vision money Holloway. My only advice to Holloway when he puts on the St Louis jersey for the first time is to pick up the phone and fire his agent for conning Holloway to take the money and flush his dream down the toilet for a quick buck. The Oilers have a whole new reason to get to the 2025 cup final. To make it all sting just a little more. As for Broberg. The St. Louis Blues suckered themselves by dishing out such an overpay, one could say it's one of the most unproven NHL over pays in the last 5 years. It sure looks like Armstrong and Holland went to the same GM University. The Armstrong Broberg show and the Holland Campbell Nurse show. These guys are the Kings of the over pay. When you give a kid with an ego (Broberg) the keys to a brand new Lambo after being stuck driving a Prius for the past 5 years it usually never turns out well. Go Oilers!
Hahahaha.
Holloways dream was to be an Oiler. Too bad Edmonton didn’t feel the same. They lowballed him. Don’t blame the players for finding better deals.
This is the BEST comment in this whole pile! Really well said. I am sad and disappointed that Holloway decided to go. Had he stayed and continued to play well, he would have soon enough be making better money. Not sure where his head has been these past few weeks but definitely not around winning a Stanley Cup championship or having the opportunity to play with the best two hockey players this side of St. Louis!!😁
I feel confident with Stan at the helm.
Great decision Cos with or without them we good to go and use that money for veterans that will be of great benefits to our team. Good luck to them
I’m sure Stan knows Army wasn’t trying to screw EDM. Just business.
good interview. holloway is replaceable. again unproven NHL player asking for too much. Broberg i think took some good steps in playoffs, but hasn’t played a full NHL season. big price tag for that.
He wasnt asking for anything it was st louis who wanted him because they saw what edmonton was doing to him trying to stunt his development to keep his salsary low
@mikesmyth5833 everyone knows the Blues overpaid but they were paying for the potential in Broberg. Holloway will get more playing time in St.Louis and will hopefully be a Top 9 guy. Doug Armstrong took advantage of the Oilers cap issues and took two first round players for a 2nd and 3rd
Gotta pay Leon. Enough young talent in the pipe to call upon. I’ve already forgotten about Holloway and what’s his name..
No one knows the future. Those 2 players have no idea how long they'll be able to play in the NHL...hopefuly it's a long time. But in case it isn't, they have real pressure to maximize their compensation when they can.
But nothing comes free. Perhaps they'll both someday look back on strong, lucrative careers but regret that the closest they ever came to winning a Cup -- eventually making even more money because of it --- was to have stayed with this great team, on the cusp, for another year or two.
Good luck to everyone involved.
Oilers decided to take one year of Jeff Skinner over a decade of Philip Broberg. I just don’t get it.
No. That's not what happened. Broberg decided to go play on a garbage team instead of playing with elite players gunning for a cup.
He clearly values money more than winning, Cups and legacy.
HEA decided to join a team whose best player is Robert Thomas lol.
Signing Skinner had NOTHING to do with Bustberg leaving
@@johanstinson Math: the $3m on Skinner would have been more than enough to not lowball Broberg, who in my viewing was a bit of a revelation in the finals. Now he’s gone.
@pjmmaloney4458 he wasn't lowballed. He's played 12 NHL games (could be wrong). He looked good in the playoffs, sure......that was after not playing for 6 weeks and being extremely rested while everyone else was dead tired from 2 months of playoff hockey.
Broberg was offered his qualifying offer....which is exactly what he deserved. No more, no less.
Besides all that, I don't want a player on my team that would rather make 5 million on a bottom feeder than compete for the Cup and sign a big deal in 2 years.
Nothing Broberg has done qualified him for special treatment.
@@johanstinson I would not consider 92 point season a “garbage team”. Middle team.
@@johanstinson Fair point, but I thought he looked very good in the finals, which suggests he was mishandled all season. And clearly Doug Armstrong felt the same way and he’s ten times the GM Stan Bowman ever has been
same old bowman -former salty hawks fan
Stan bowman will never get my respect.
Nobody cares but you. Hold your head high bud lol
Stop it with the virtue signaling. You don't give a crap about Kyle Beach. You're just saying things that may get you some street cred from other basement-dwellers.
I highly doubt he gives a deuce...
Broberg already had a you tube interview about joining the blues.
Where is the link, I'd like to see it?
Why doesn't anyone asked why they didn't sign these 2 players a lot sooner. Now we lost 3 defenseman from last year's team and we are better? Lol this organization is a joke
@@saldurante538 Ever think they didn't want to sign? Esp Broberg, pretty clear he wasn't going to take an offer mid season.
They offered them contracts. They decided they wanted money more than they wanted to win.
with Broberg/Holloway, the Blues will have 12 players in their organization who were first-round picks and are 25 years old or younger ...
I don't no why everyone is shiting on the oilers when this was the right thing to do. Maybe because our new GM is not very.. well... respected.
Finally we get a smart GM
Do we like Bowman? I’m not sure just yet. Watching him speak he looks like he doesn’t want to be there. Can’t stop thinking about what he didn’t do in Chicago as the boss.
LOVE YOU STAN!!! YOU'RE BEST!!!
But, being realistic, Now will he, or can he trade Nurse... What a sh!t end of the stick contract it is... way to weigh the team down with greed...
we dont need a nurse we need a doctor
Hopefully Leon wants to work for a G.M like this character. Lets not forget he could go anywhere.
Sucks losing young players in Stan I trust!
I knew prior Oilers wouldn't match the offer had to create movement for Leon and ,Oilers are tapped out on their cap...This decision had to of happened to send players to the Blues which were asking too much , knowing they are working on Leon's signing
Letting this situation happen is where this went wrong. So I don’t think we have improved, we are now not as good as we were.
Core group still hasn’t changed. Still as good as last year which is only a goal away from a cup. Younger players you can still slot in come trade deadline. I don’t think it’s as big a deal as some may make it.
We shall see what happens. The Blueline issue is back in the spotlight
Can't do any worse than Chia or the old boys club. Has Stan been drinking the water..... is Reider to blame? broberg and holloway will be replaced by more immediate impact players. Once again, it Cup or Bust!
This was horrendous asset management by the Oilers brass. And I’m happy for the players who stood up for themselves 💪
How dramatic. You are happy with the players "Who stood up for themselves", What a strange way to put that. They were approached by a Gm that overpaid one 2 times what he was worth and the other 4 times what he was worth. The player took the overpayment offered. Simple as that. You act like the Oilers are the first team in a winning window that put the squeeze on their RFA.
💤
@@trevorl3555 EXCELLENT comeback. Looks like @maxpayne7419 doesn't really know what he's talking about. It's not like Broberg & Holloway are 'bonified' NHL players who've been around for years & really proven themselves. That being said, I really liked Holloway & his play. Too bad so sad!
@@trevorl3555 the Oilers thought they could screw their RFA’s. A classic case of FA and FO 😂
@maxpayne7419 you are not good at this. I am guessing you cheer for a team that has only won 5 rounds of playoff hockey since the 80s.
Broberg, IMO, could turn out to be a solid 2A guy in a year or two. Too bad Nurse, a 6/7 player, costs $12 mill per.
Harley rider
Sure junior, back to your Play Station, in mommy's basement. 🍼
Nurse is 9.5. Too high but not 12 at least.
@@Gotthattism95I think he converted it to $CDN funds. Players are paid in US dollars.
Maybe young players don't feel comfortable playing for the organization at the moment.
Which would be understandable.
Terrible take.
@Simple_101 . How so? As a young player would you want to play under a GM who doesn't care about your well-being? Bowman has already proven that player safety doesn't mean a damn to him.
I still dont know how long this guys contract with the team is, does anyone know?
3 years.
I want to know if your dad is giving you advice on the oiler players Stan?
Is your mommy still wiping your bottom?
@@dianedyck3474 even his dad won't talk to him anymore
Baby!!
Broberg was injected into the line deep into the playoffs during a time when everyone was gassed and playing with broken ribs and feet while he was at 100% and rested. For that reason I don't put much stock into the 1 small sample size he had, the games he did play during the regular season were quite disappointing...Holloway also had a good run in the playoffs however regular season over his 90ish games he's a 1 goal per 10 games scorer....Im not impressed by those stats from anyone making over a league minimum salary
Your average pessimistic 30+ year Oilers fan here. So Mr, Bowman has how many cups? 3? And there is one other GM in history who has also? What do would you set as the probability of any GM winning 4 Stanley Cups? I know little of Bowman, and certainly no opinion of qualifications either way, but I wouldn't have hired him for that statistic alone. I mean it could happen lol, idk.
They just let 2, 1st rounders walk right out the door. No wonder they haven't had a cup in so long. You don't draft 1st rounders and then let another team come in and grab them after you've developed them for 3 or 4 years. Edmonton won't get back to the cup in 25' with that kind of thinking.
Every kiddie living in mommy's basement's gonna play armchair President/GM 💤
Which other Canadian team has won a cup lately, new jersey, Arizona, San Jose, Philadelphia, and so on lol
@@SS-iv7wv
😴🍼
So many casuals here that don't understand the actual business of hockey
👍💙🧡
Guys I am a big time Blues fan and live in STL. This was well thought out by your GM who comes from good stock. I was around when Scotty Bowman coached the blues in our first few years of service. You have a good GM and a great team so good luck this year.
emberson exires next year you guys are so beyond cashed
Lots of crap holland put oilers through stupid signings and not signing players, and even though they went to the cup final last year they still lost, this team is made to win a Cup NOW. Lets see what we can do to fix the cap issues which holland put us in, defense is very thin now lets see what bowman does.
You do understand that Stan Bowman signed Seth Jones to that big contract in the same off-season that Nurse had to be signed - check it out. He forced Holland into a no win situation - Nurse had had a couple of good seasons and wanted to be paid after two (I believe) bridge contracts. Was $9.25M too high. Yes. But you're looking at THE guy who set the precedent. Also, once JJ got to the Oilers he was calling all the shots. Holland, then became the lame duck executive, not making any decisions only being the face of the GM. That's my take on this.
Can any of our management even scout players their not familiar with? Everyone of our players acquired have some sort of connection to management
It's almost like it makes it easier for them to comment on players they are very familiar with... and news alert... so far the recent pick ups have worked out pretty damn well.
Its like when they used to draft all those Edmonton Oil KIng players who went no where.
@@MarciaRobinsonz so to be successful in hockey it's all about the size of your friend group good to know
@SF1886 that's ken Holland's management team I'm talking about Stan Bowman management team
Knowledge is key, and if you know someone you can trust to get something done it is easier to have them in the position than a maybe personnel.
😂good job Oilers. First round picks for 2 and 3rds. Not the new guy fault. Holland was a joke GM😅
And, the time a team must wait until those picks are ready to play in the nhl… you maybe waiting until 2030 before to see what we actually got for these picks…
Stan feels violated
Delusional oilers fan applauding bowen for shitting the bed 😂
💰vs🏆❓
Earn your keep & don’t make a peep.
If you’re not loyal to the Oil…best of luck
Could of ended it with " ya dumb fuqs " lol
"A business decision".. No they just couldn't match lol. He is a good GM, grate at going around the bush. Yall are screwd lol no trade equity spending all your money on three players. Grabbing a bunch of older and untested youngins... Rebuild incoming!! The one that got me the best. "Edmonton is a destination that players want to come to play hockey". That is the biggest load of BS I've ever heard a GM in Canada say. Nobody in the US wants to play and move to Canada unless there from their. Its like a running joke in the US
Yes and no. You spelt great wrong also. Stan is not very well respected I get that, and he has screwed teams over before. Fully understand. But the thing is he did the right thing by letting them go, also what do you mean spending all our money on three players? You mean keeping the best player in the league one our team? Or drai who is at least top five? Bouchard is the only other one i can think of and he is to say the least an elite defence men. Soooooo...
Subscription is gone i will no longer support this team us fans deserve so much better
Cya, no body
He should not have been given this job.
Boo hoo, boo hoo
When he says they exhausted all options I get the vibe that there weren’t many teams willing to help out.
Tyson barrie on league minimum would be good
I was GOING to ask Santa for a Holloway jersey. I don’t care about any reason NOT keeping him around. Don’t wanna hear it. Should’ve kept Holloway.
Miss you Ken!
Crappy oiler jerseys ,waste of money
Holloway wasn’t worth $2.2 million…especially with his injury record
Can we a hire a gm that's good please
good move , bad person
@SF1886 i’m talking about our SA hiding GM
@@caydinwatkinson1749 he knows what you're referencing. This entire comment section is suspect.
@SF1886 I hope the blues win the cup and Broberg is MVP
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Shouldn’t have hired Stan.. he is always going to be coming from a position of weakness after Chicago. Desperately trying to get back respect and like ability from other GMs, he will always be coming from a position of weakness.
Correct your position of weakness right now;
Every kiddie living in mommy's basement's gonna play armchair President/GM 💤
You’re obviously a youngster not versed in Oiler history.
A young Mac-T did time for vehicular homicide. Glen Sather rescued his career…Craig won the Stanley Cup four times (1987, 1988, 1990, 1994). He also became Oiler captain, coach, GM & President. Also earned a Masters in Business at the U of A.
@@loilt5091 STFU, Stan knew about an SA on his watch , his boss told him he was dealing with it big fuckin deal he did nothing. I guess if it was one if your kids you’d be good with the cover up Doesn’t excuse him. Well aware of what happened with Mac T. GFY
I just don't like this guy.
That’s tough, get over it
@@tequila6306 That's how i feel about the hiring. Not happy with it, but it is what it is. Hope he does wel at the job and the Oilers win a few Cups with him here.
@@BrettWBit’s been a good start
Okay
@@tequila6306 I agree. Would it have been ideal to sign them before being offer sheeted? Yeah, 100%. They also went out and got players that can replace the losses, built cap space, and got a couple additional assets from St. Louis because of those trades. Made the best out of a bad situation. Now gimme that Drai extension so i can be genuinely happy :D
Not that I don't agree,
but This GM was a bad signing... so embarrassed for This organization for even considering this person....
Well…Kyle Beach and Sheldon Kennedy endorsed him. that carries a lot more weight than your opinion.
@antiprogpragmatist859
Your opinion isn't needed either I guess but that's why we live in a free country.
Why not consider the victims he knew were being abused.
Stan Bowman, former general manager of the Chicago Blackhawks, was primarily accused of mishandling allegations of sexual assault within the organization. The controversy revolves around an incident in 2010 involving former Blackhawks video coach Brad Aldrich and a player, Kyle Beach. Beach alleged that Aldrich sexually assaulted him during the team's playoff run.
The accusations against Bowman are centered on his role in the organization's response to these allegations. It was reported that Bowman, along with other members of the Blackhawks' leadership team, became aware of the allegations but chose not to take immediate action, allowing Aldrich to remain with the team during their Stanley Cup run. This alleged inaction and failure to protect Beach and others from potential harm led to significant criticism.
An independent investigation commissioned by the Blackhawks and conducted by the law firm Jenner & Block concluded that the team's leadership, including Bowman, did not take adequate action in response to the allegations. As a result of the findings, Bowman resigned from his position as general manager in October 2021. The controversy had significant repercussions for the organization and led to broader discussions about accountability and player safety within professional sports.
@@BlueskyGladue.. “why not consider the victims he knew were being abused”…for one thing, I believe there was only one victim that Bowman knew about..secondly, I did consider the victim. His name is Kyle Beach (I mentioned his name in my previous reply) and he has forgiven Bowman and he has endorsed him to return to the nhl. Sheldon Kennedy, an abuse survivor from many years ago also endorses Bowman. So yeah…their opinions carry more weight than yours…..btw, I didn’t offer an opinion, Poindexter
@@antiprogpragmatist859 Kyle Beach endorsed him? I didn't know that.
@@patriciaschmitt6448 ..and Sheldon Kennedy…it’s been reported more than once
Just terrible management. The point is we had 2 high value 1st round picks and we literally got nothing for them. Everyone was so big on broberg "oh hes the next klefbom" "oh we got a hedman finally" now look even trading bourgeult for most likely another puljujarvi. Fans want the cup not the management. Then we hire this clown bowman.
Every kiddie living in mommy's basement's gonna play armchair President/GM 💤
🤡
The Oilers are the most unlikeable team in the league.
Your fav team can't beat them it's ok
@@maxpayne7419 this hiring proves it!!!
The Canucks over achieved last season they will miss the playoffs next year
In what way 🧐
Said the Flames fan.
Every kiddie living in mommy's basement's gonna play armchair President/GM 💤
3️⃣1️⃣st on Nov. 12, to Game 7️⃣ & a goal from the Grail.
Ya, you know-it-all... 🙄
🇨🇦
You guys were being cheapskates to some young pretty good players
stupid comment
Nah they were still unproven and asking for too much
It definitely didn't make sense...that pay for Broberg was insanity.
Good players BUT very unproven at the NHL tier.