J vs P Lead Speech Pattern
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ธ.ค. 2024
- Are you an introvert or an extravert? The only reliable way to tell is by judging vs perceiving-lead speech pattern!
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I'm an INFJ, and I sometimes find it challenging to clearly translate what I'm thinking into a conversation. It's like I forget that people can't read my mind. It is sometimes hard for me to decide which details I should give and which ones don't matter.
I’m an infp and I have a hard time translating my ideas too, but in my case it’s more that I have the idea in my head and I just don’t know how to express it in words
I'm INFP and since I'm also a stutterer I relate so much to this "speaking troubles".
I have a lot to say in my brain but my tongues doesn't allow me to express all in a comprehensive way so I get the words out badly and my speech often sounds intelligible.
This is why I prefer writing over speaking.
@@danielasalazar5289 agreed
Hey Alisha Street, as an Infj you’ve got Te trickster function, which can mean you’ll have trouble extraverting your thoughts. If you can convert your thoughts to how you feel you’ll have an easier time, but that’s easier said than done I suppose. Hope this helps -intj
I'm an infp and saame
I dated my wife for 1 week and knew right away she was an ENFP. She took the test and I was SPOT ON! I'm an INTJ so our conversations are really interesting but I'm often asking her to "Land the plane!" Our personalities match evenly though when trying to decide on restaurants. She names like ten different places (or general food styles) that she may or may not even want to go to and I blurt out the exact perfect place based on her choices. We rarely disagree on things. I'm learning to be really patient with her method of coming to conclusion, and she is learning to be very patient with my immediate and blunt judgments. I really admire her ability to brainstorm, its a true super power! MBTI has helped us both understand how to communicate more effectively and to understand our thought processes.
Sometimes I have to remind myself of her complete lack of commitment to ideas she throws out into the world. That may be the biggest difference between P's and I's. Commitment to conclusions.
I keep making edits to this comment, you two got me thinking.
One of the most important things I've learned about my wife and about P personalities, is that rather than shut down her ideas, or blurt out that she is wrong, I've instead learned that she was never 100% committed to the idea in the first place. I can easily add new dimension and steer her toward something different without outright rejecting her thoughts. She seems to really appreciate it when I ask open ended questions in response to an idea that she has, it enables her to come to a more grounded conclusion. I also appreciate this style of communication because she tends to have so many ideas, ones that I wouldn't have thought of, that our conversations tend to be really rich.
:) I love her very much. haha
Matthew Petrie This so much. We don’t want you to agree a 100% with us, a conversation is a run & we want you to run along with us because it’s fun
This is really neat!! I have an ENFP mom and an INTJ dad (I’m an INFJ) and they have both smooth days and ones where they argue quite a bit. I think this is because of how sensitive my mom is and how blunt my dad can be. My mom will also talk forever and go on and on and my dad just wants to “get to the point”. I’m more like my dad in that regard 😂. (Also my mom is late to everything and it drives my dad nuts). I think you and your wife have (at least from this comment) a really wonderful balance between your two types and I hope y’all try not to get so caught up in your differences like they do sometimes!
"Never 100% committed to the idea in the first place." -- very true for Ne dominants. We Ne dominants, when we are talking, we are just exploring, brainstorming out loud. And you are also correct that Ne dominants *love* to get feedback on their brainstorms. Getting that feedback from others is much of the reason why we talk.
as an intp the description in the beginning of speech is so true.
i build a context before making a point so that the other person can understand why i came to have a particular opinion.
but that’s also why we intps get so annoyed when someone cuts us off because we haven’t even got to the good part yet XD
I am INTP., pretty clearly one. Sometimes I give the "Ne" part first (the pattern, often via metaphor) before detailing how the particular subject is unique within that larger pattern (the Ti logic). That is: Here is the general thing, but here is what matters to THIS thing particularly, finishing with a summary (it is unique in some particular way by all those aspects that I just listed). It is never short; I think this is the hallmark of the P type. I don't like to do short answers because then you won't get the important part, which is the unique aspect of the particular thing. Kind of like this answer, probably. Can't just make a statement without giving the reasons for that thought/conclusion. Not without effort, at least. I can be done, short and sweet, but the other person almost always questions the conclusion, forcing me to detail how I got to my conclusion anyway, so why not just get right down to it from the start?
When INFPs extrovert we tend to use Ne a lot, so can seem like ENFP. Ne is kind of the 'face' we usually show the world, or the way we interract. We tend to voice those perceptions we gather, ideas etc.
Pavement Pounder INFJ here: I love Ne. INFPs bring their intuition to the surface, and it feels like a breath of fresh air to my Ni. They can jump around a bit with it, but I'm fine with that. At least they're voicing the cool shit that goes on in my head. I try not to be too intense with my Ti and overload them with information lol. There's a little bit of a balancing act, but they're great listeners. They don't miss much.
So true! Meanwhile however we are more or less judging people and situations around us internally but we are experts on keeping those thoughts to ourselves. May not be in a harsh critical way but it's still there most of the time, at least for me.
OMG this is the first time I have heard of this J lead, P lead concept (after years of learning about MBTI) and this explains SO much about me. I have a INFP husband and he always says I “talk in circles” lol but really it’s just me trying to figure out and organize my own thoughts. I guess I am a P lead (and he is a J lead). Despite this, I still enjoy talking “in circles” if you will, with others and I never feel the need to draw conclusions. I think this drives some people nuts haha😂but oh well that’s how I function I guess. (I am a INFJ).
Just throwing this in there. The Lead-P process users: Your IxxJs & ExxPs. The Lead-P Process does NOT give one rat's ass about structure or order (Quoting someone in that line). Instead, the Judgment process with deal with or handle that. For IxxJs, the lack of structure is in the Internal World. The need for structure/order is Secondary (not preferred) and is orientated to the outside world. For ExxPs, the lack of order/structure is in the Outside World. Because their weaker, less prefered Judgment is focused/orientated towards the Internal World. When they do desire some order/structure, it's internalized.
Compare that to: The Lead-J process users: Your IxxPs & ExxJs. The J-Process as a LEAD is ALL about structure/order. But, because of I/E, it will either be focused internally or externally. For the IxxPs, it's about Internalized structure/order. The Outside World, not so much. For the ExxJs, it's all about the Outer World being Structured/Ordered. For the Internal World of the ExxJ, there is not much of any desire for structure.
Now, a fly in the ointment. In the Real World, there is a separate, but connected variable to this that must be acknowledged. It does factor into the equation. IxxJs & ExxJs have both Intraverted Perception & Extraverted Judgment. But despite the MBTI 'J' thing, these two types can have (I say: 'Can Have') an unstructured/unordered outside world. Given thoughts towards how the Internal vs External Worlds are viewed by the individual. It boils down to the self and how they view their HOME vs their Work Station/Area.
There is a stereotype that IxxJs & ExxJs are always organized/structured. But this stereotype can rapidly fall to pieces if the individual views things in their Outer World differently then what is expected from the majority (The stereotype of the individual's true type). An IxxJ is a Lead-P type, therefore they do NOT prefer structure/order. And that LACK of any structure-order is orientated Internally. But their weaker Judgment is orientated to the Outer World, which commands/demands structure/order. But the IxxJs (ExxJs too) can view their HOME, their House (their Private Space) as an extension of their Internal World. Rather than view their Home as apart of the External World. Psychology-wise, if the IxxJ or ExxJ views their Home, their House, their Living Space as a natural extension of their own Private Internal World, they will NOT feel a need to enforce structure/order to that space. Alot of ISxJs and ALL ExxJs do view their HOME, their House as just an extension of their Outer World. So psychology-wise, they feel very compelled to apply order/structure to that space. OASN: SJs seem to enjoy playing HOST or HOSTESSES. This further adds to their idea of HOME ; automatically falling into realm of the Outer World.
Almost ALL IxxJs/ExxJs will feel the desire to enforce order/structure to their workspace/workstation. This is something that is pretty consistent. If you do NOT see this behavior in an IxxJ/ExxJ, then consider they may be typed incorrectly. But it's how the individual IxxJ/ExxJ views their HOME as either an extension of their Outer World (which is typical). Or do they view their HOME as their private Castle. Their Private Space where NO ONE is allowed. Their so-called: Sacred Place where no one is allowed to traverse. If this is the case, prepare to be surprised how messy IxxJs/ExxJs can really be. This can be quite a surprise to most. Prepare yourself for it. It's the INxJs/ENxJs that are most likely to associate their HOME with their Internal World of Introverted Perception. Where order/structure is NOT as important.
If an IxxP views their HOME as a natural extension of their Internal World, they will enforce strict order/structure on the inside of their house. Everything must be in its proper place. The INFP that is married to my sister is like this. His home is uniquely ordered/structure. See what I did there with the 'Unique'-thing for the INFP? If the INFP views their house as a natural extension of their Outer World, you will see a serious lack of order/structure.
This subject may conflict with what so many assume about psychology & functions. But is something that can be observed if you observe types over many years. Dave Powers has it right that you need to get to know the type (whatever it is). Observe them over years and years. Collect observations on them and you will see the patterns sticking out so much that you could never not see them.
ToddHa such interesting considerations! thank you!
ToddHa omg I think you've just answered my comment without directly answering my comment ahahaha! I was confused after watching this video, but I think you're analysis cleared it up somewhat. Thank you!
Interesting. I like that you point out it takes a lot of observation time to figure out someone else, but i think its more complicated than that. Someone may *want* their house and/or work space to be orderly, but we are all busy people and have to prioritize. Im an infj (not mistyped bc the cognitive functions are spot on) and i love doing chores and even cleaning other peoples houses. But sometimes im just too busy. My house and work station may be unorganized at times but i do not like it one bit. If someone comes over to my house and its messy i am full of shame. But i live with my boyfriend who is a slob and i am busy with work and spending time with him and my cat (Fe) or my creative projects (Ni).
Another important factor are social norms. If you work in an office where everyones desk is a mess, then you may leave your desk messy even if youd prefer it clean, and spend the effort you would organizing it one some other thing thats important to you. Same with your home, if you live with a roommate who is a neat freak and wants a clean house, you may spend time cleaning just to get them off your back even if you wouldnt otherwise. Or if you have kids, or are disabled, etc etc.
Tldr you may *observe* mess in either or both places, what matters is how the individual feels about the level of order, which you may never be able to ascertain. While the things you pointed out are good indicators, there is a lot of noise of life getting in the way which makes things less black and white than you are painting them to be.
How do you connect these facts with speech patterns?
Not so much connected directly to speech pattern. It was this graphic from years ago that allowed me to see the hidden pattern of how mistypes show up in mass numbers in the forums. I found this graphic years ago and I can visualize the pattern in my mind. There are patterns in the images internally. Ni is very opposite of Se. Si and Ne can be seen as opposites too. The differences in Fe vs Ti and Fi vs Te is not so obvious in the pattern of the image. But can be seen more clearly using visualization in the mind. If you create the waveform in your mind while listening to the user. When you do this long enough over years, you'll start to notice a distinct pattern that the Aux & Tertiary functions play a 'Ping-Pong' match during conversation from that individual. Quick back-and-forth ping-pong action in the voice quality, the speech pattern. I find it best to ignore the actual words being used by the type and simply maintain the visual in your mind of the waveform pattern that draws itself within. Long (extended) one-on-one interviews are really good for flushing it out. One must ZONE-OUT. Just let everything else in the physical world fall away out of perception. Even ignoring the actual words and just let your mind create the visual within.
This is the LINK to the graphic I speak of. Ni and Se are very clearly 100% opposites on the graphic. And that is how the speech pattern actually comes out in visualizations within. The visualizations form in my head when I listen to them. Older Se-Inferior types & Older Ni-Inferior types will develop a sort of: 'Ping-Ping' match between the Dominant and Inferior in speech pattern later in life as the inferior becomes more trusted, switching more towards Aspiration for the individual. The Aux-Tertiary Ping-Pong match of speech pattern should develop earlier in life and will be heard more easily in younger types. When Ni is actively used it has an UP and DOWN kinda waveform. The graphic briefly describes how each function will manifest. You do have to be careful. Fi does have a quality to it that kinda resembles Ni only when it's combined with Fe. The graphic shows it. Look carefully at Fi and then at Ni+Fe together. But when you visualize it in your mind, the differences are more clear. I can't quite describe that, it's just something you will know with long term practice and long term exposure to the differing type's communication styles. A 5-minute video is generally not going to be long enough to flush these out of a type. A good 20min, or 30min or longer video which is in a 'one-on-one interview' style may be enough to flush out which cognitive processes are being used by the individual. And even which cognitive processes are prefered and which are not so much.
www.typologycentral.com/forums/myers-briggs-and-jungian-cognitive-functions/68980-voice-tone-cognitive-functions.html
Yay! This video was long waited for and very worth it!
In an unrelated note I wanted to mention that Alex seems to be a very well developed INTJ.
From my humble experience with INTJs, she seems to have a hold on the Fe environment and the physical world which is rare among many INTJs and experience aside, she seems to be able to use Fe and Se in quite a well manner from personal observations in your videos. I venture to say that she is a prime example for those INTJs out there!
You're very amazing too Calypso! You seem to have a way with Ti and your bubbly Ne is always joyful to watch! I know writing notes, maintaining a channel, paying attention to details is quite hard for INFPs so...a Si applause to that!
You two are role models for all of us in the typology community who strive to mature, learn and have conscious effort to better use the potential of the human mind and ultimately, to become better versions of ourselves!
_an inspired INFP!
INFP: Thanks for your encouraging comment! This was just a casual conversation. The long-awaited videos on vocal tone and speech patterns are... still coming. Life gets in the way sometimes!
I'm an infp too and an extreme introvert. When I'm nervous I talk super fast too, it's not an extrovert thing.
I heard Infos are a special type that are more likely not to notice autocorrect when they type.
Chad 1337P-De$tr0yer69 Sry, corrected it.
@@araparth9106 Yeah, when I bring up the video your comment is the one comment that shows in the preview window so it was like right there.
You can be an extrovert and have/develop social anxiety.
I do this too.
Definitely a P lead. I don't like to make conclusions quickly until I've considered everything
@@celebrity_rooster7488 lol I hear you. Everything is subject to change what's a conclusion? 🤦♀️
omg same, infp here. don't really come to conclusions or a foundation of an opinion until I considered all different perspectives, ideas etc.
@@ryyreadsinfp is a j lead so that's contradictory
INFJ here.
I have such a hard time giving straight answers!!! I've been so guilty of giving "round-about" answers to my friends who are probably judging leads (I'm sure one of which is an ISFP.) Lots of times, she'll ask me the same exact question again, and most times I still won't answer it! It's like my brain won't let me. My Ni will just run away with an idea of just one part of the question, and I'll just start rattling off facts. I'm working on this though. I think it's super important to be able to adapt my communication style to the person that I'm talking to. I guess that would be developing my auxiliary Fe!
infj also here. How old are you? What are you doing in life? (Just curious)
Radosna aa
Hi fellow INFJ- I'm 32 with under-developed Fe (IMO), overused Ti. I'm currently trying to start a blog, but I've had about 4 career changes so far. I'm into entrepreneurship, especially real estate investing. My spouse (ISTJ) and I own a couple of properties together. ISTJs are incredibly reliable and good at making money. That makes one of us lol! My Ni comes out in long-term planning for our future, and my ISTJ is amazing at the day-to-day details. And... that's my life in a nutshell. Hope this helps! I wouldn't mind hearing about you 😉
Saaaaaaaaame!!
Q Ward, i am a 17 year old girl from Poland. I am changing school again(second time, it will be my third high school), mostly because of the environment and the people. I will study physics, mathematics and biology all in advance level. It will be a big test for me, because I will be obligated to work hard and be efficient. I am not as good in those areas as istj or entj are. With my infj mind I have an existential crisis almost every morning and my brain keeps asking the same philosophical questions and I often feel like a floating ghost, just stuck in this human body. Also I need time to process things and get to know people to feel comfortable. And it takes a lot of time and energy for me. Last year every day in school was super depressed for me, but I still kept going. And I am so proud of myself now. I know for sure that in this new school will be much better, because the people there are smart and future-oriented and I can easily talk with them about more than alcohol and parties. Also there are my best friends(enfp and intp)so I won't feel alone. I would like to work as a psychologist(I am very interested in people, what they think, what are their goals, how I can help them improve) or something to do with environment protection and healthcare. Yeah... I would add something else. I hate that thing in me that is not exited about life, as if I've been here many times and I simply don't want to do certain things at all and it makes me numb. Like an old soul(I rarely call myself like that, because it seems cliche).
Yeah life is not that easy for us.
Radosna aa There are sooo many things that stuck out to me in your comment. I'm also interested in environmental protection, and math came pretty easy to me when I was young. I majored in Chemistry in college (regret this). In hindsight, I do wish that I would've gone the psychology/sociology/anthropology route because I'm much more interested in people. This is probably due to our high Fe, but we're also attached to our Ti. Life isn't easy for us because we're rare, and we seem like weirdos to other people, but EVERYONE is unique in their own way. Every single person has a little something that makes them different from the people around them, so don't get down on yourself! I think that quality friendships is probably the most important thing to us. It's awesome that you have your two best friends who you feel comfortable around. Keep good, loving people around you for years to come, and life will look a little brighter. As I've gotten older, I'm figuring out how to better relate to the world as a whole, and I'm developing thicker skin. Therapy is a great option for our types. Professional advice can help us figure out the complexities of our inner-emotions. Sorry for the unsolicited advice, but as you probably already know, we can't help it =). Good luck to you at your new school!
ENTP - P Lead here. I am the opposite of Calypso in that I thought I was an INTP for a very long time since I am socially extremely introverted. However I realized I lead with P and am very open ended and never make quick judgments. I almost always reinvent my statements about things and don’t really explain any one thing with the same verbiage. Think that is a Ne dom thing.
intp confirms
This makes sense. While I'm an INFP and can ramble on, with say the camping question my initial answer would be straight to the point, like I'd say, 'oh it was pretty good..did some fun activities and met some friendly people.' Then I might talk about specific events etc. My ISFJ mum can be kinda rambly in this regard. I do feel however I 'talk to think', like speaking helps me think and formulate thoughts, and I kind of develop them as I go.
I notice INFP girl uses her whole body to talk and INTJ girl only uses her arms and hands but minimally.
And eyeballs (rolling). I felt like she was so annoyed with the INFP girl. I guess she was just being true to her nature, judging.
Direct isnt intrinsically better than exploratory. This INTJ girl with all her body language and choice of words cant seem to stand that.
Wow, yeah I do *not* like to linger in uncertainty at all; I have to find the answer if it's immediately available, if not then I leave it on another tab until more information arrives, but I don't like to uselessly dwell on things. I've actually noticed that in conversation sometimes when someone's talking, if their speech pauses a moment or stutters a bit I rush to offer a probable filler word - basically finishing other people's sentences so they can move on. Kind of telling the person "yeah I get your gist, continue." I think that maybe related to this, or maybe it's my inferior Fe trying to show engagement or something, that's a possibility, possibly linked.
But when I speak, I hear even to myself that I describe and explain and contextualize a lot before I come to any point. Even though I hold the Ti decision or opinion in my head, I rarely throw it out without qualifications - I always feel like the other person needs to know why I think something before they know what I think. I also don't answer questions very directly, again despite knowing which way I lean, I like to allow for error, and the other persons choice, and potential for new options/ideas/opportunities; so it's externally very Ne behaving but it's very driven by Ti.
Soooo I'm a J lead, but I don't know, vocally I come across very P lead-ish. Less so with people I'm close to or have gotten used too, but I feel like introverts very strongly blur that line.
Great one!!
You're an INFJ?
@@user-qb3uy5cg1u no I believe they’re an INTP (Ti, Ne, Si, Fe) like me. I relate with that commenter’s statements as well. I think this video describes lead extroverts well in terms of speech, but not lead introverts, because I believe what is expressed to others in verbal speech is not necessarily your lead function, but often your first extroverted function. What’s going on inside your head is usually decided by your lead function (depending on context), but not necessarily what you say out loud. It also depends on who you’re talking to (how comfortable you are with just saying your thoughts) and depends what your talking about (whether you’ve already studied a topic and made your conclusions/judgements or are in learning/discovery perceiving mode while talking). Therefore I believe it’s an unreliable way of deciding someone’s lead function.
Very interesting! I think this is really helpful when learning how to type others. It would be great if you could do more on this subject, for example show short clips of people answering questions. Maybe celebrities, and you could explain their speech patterns!
As an INTP, I definitely know what it's like to be seen through Ne. Many people are surprised when I tell them I am hugely introverted. I joke a lot, ramble about stuff, which is seen as extroverted. But I am definitely a Ti dominant.
INTP. Very interesting. I relate to pretty much always immediately knowing my opinion on a subject, or at least quickly seeing how it fits into the framework of "me." I do often go back to previous conversations but that's more bc I've spent time refining either my thoughts, my response, or both. I have several opinions that I've held since I was quite young, and I often refer to those beliefs as "defining me." Another interesting point is that my boyfriend is an INTJ and I frequently find myself clarifying or "working through" or deciding my thoughts on a particular subject or idea or opinion as we discuss it...whereas I don't recall doing this much at all during conversations with other people/types. Maybe I pick it up from him during our interactions? If it's a subject he hasn't previously given much or any thought to, he'll kind of verbalize how and why he's coming to a certain conclusion; or just flat-out say that he's unsure (which is so cool lol). Or maybe I'm not so much picking up his style as just going deeper and broader into fantastic subjects than I tend to be able to do with most people, and verbalizing my process is simply a by-product of that. Maybe both things are true. I do love that my INTJ can and does articulate how and why he came to a particular opinion/conclusion; it's both helpful for broadening my own perspective and just plain interesting to break it down to its components. It IS a confusing topic bc as an INTP I'm obv a perceiver and I absolutely AM totally comfortable with ambiguity...in situations though, not opinions as much. If I'm ignorant of a subject, I won't form an opinion (and if I'm interested in said subject...I'll find out all about it haha and then make an opinion) but the opinions I do have are black and white and not going to change unless new and valid information becomes availableOh, here's maybe an example: at work, I'll push the day-end closing to the very last min in case any new paperwork/info comes in. If asked for an explanation or pushed to close earlier, I'll adamantly and immediately state my reasons for not wanting to do so; which are completely logical and valid (to my mind, at least). This is a fascinating subject; thanks for sharing.
Infj here and definitely a P-lead, I consider my house as a part of my internal world and so it’s usually messy and dusty lol but when it’s outside my house(and outside my internal world) I do take good care that I don’t let any mess behind me. I’ve always wondered as to why I as a ixxj don’t keep my room as clean and tidy as I should but I’ve now learned that this happens because I unconsciously consider it as part of my internal world.
i'm an intj. yes, very true... sometimes, it kind of depends on who i'm talking to. when someone asks me something like "how is your day?" or "how's this? how's that?" and i don't really want to answer or just don't want to talk for long, i simply answer "it's ok" or any sentence of that length. i suppose you could call that "aloof". but if i'm deeply engaged in the conversation or the person, and i want to rant about something, i will describe something and then come to a conclusion about it.
an example of p-lead speech pattern would be when my friend asked me if i preferred crowded trains or buses. i took into consideration my experience with both, and described what it was like on a crowded train or bus. then i concluded that a crowded train was better than a crowded bus.
I was wondering about weather or not I was an intp or entp for 1000000 years now and I finally know I’m an entp. Thanks
"Everyone needs alone time" You've obviously never met my dad 😂
Same😂
Girls in video: How was summer camp?
Me: It was a waste of My time.
That was My instantaneous response without any continuation.
So what does that mean for Me in this video's context, I'm J-lead?
Calypso, look into "ambivert". I am one too as an INFJ. It's the ability to put on an extroverted mask in certain situations to perform certain tasks.
You probably are like me, are very introverted off camera, but you come off as extrovert in maybe jobs and when in front of people when you need to be.
"ability to put on an extroverted mask in certain situations" Everyone can do that. That's not a preference or topology. It's a personality mask.
I’ve noticed that as an Ni dom I find it hard to concentrate with other Ni doms Or users when they talk but I can concentrate easily with Ne doms and users because I get they jump from one point to another keeping me intrigued for what’s next
Sometimes I'll make a half-hearted judgment, then talk through my thoughts, and conclude with a completely different statement. Like, "oh it was alright, x wasn't really going well, but then y happened, of course that was when z came in and overall it was just really stressful." I'm pretty sure I'm a P lead, though.
Speech speed is actually related to primary sensory modality. People who are primarily visual (55% of the population) tend to talk fast and to speak in a high monotone, people who are primarily auditory (35% of the population) tend to talk at a moderate speed and have pleasant, musical voices, and people who are primarily kinesthetic (touchy-feely) (10% of the population) talk verrrry slowwwly with deep voices. I'm guessing by speech (and clothing style) that INFP girl is primarily visual and INTJ girl is primarily auditory. (INTJ and visually oriented here.)
I've always been hesitating between INTP and ENTP, and ENTP seems right if I follow this point. Ask me anything, I'll first answer "I've no idea. But considering this and that and that, actually this makes sense and...oh, wait, actually I have an idea about it (I just didn't know yet, before it was expressed)."
As an ENTP, I've said those words :). One thing you might want to look at is is your bigger weakness Fe, or Si?
My infp friend is definitely a J-lead, although in the external world she can be messy but she keeps her room very clean and tidy because it’s part of her internal world
My family member is ISTJ= Si first, and he keeps gathering in information from all directions for a long period of time (while he's talking out loud about a topic) and he does this instead of just saying his point/his question/his needs. It is a logical accumulation of this fact, plus that fact, plus this fact, and on and on and on, until minutes later, he finally finds what he was looking for. As an INFP fi lead, I only have one question while Im listening to him, which is "what do you want or need to happen?" but he really doesnt know until he first goes through gathering information and stacking it up. It can be very tedious for me to be patient and listen. For example if he has to set an appointment with me on his calendar, he will begin at the beginning of that month and talk though out loud every day which he has something scheduled to do, and why, all the way leading up to the day that he wants to ask me If I "can make an appointment on that day?". It's highly exhausting.
this is an enlightening video THANKS!
I hate how other people can't understand
This was really interesting. I hadn't heard of this speech pattern distinction before. As I'm thinking about it, I think I'm J-leading. I tend to say things like "[conclusion]. And I say this because..." or with the camp example, I might say something like "it was good/fun/terrible/whatever" and then go on to specifics. I've taken tests online before and usually come up as INFP, but I'm not 100% sure.
I feel like im both?? If you ask me a question about myself, I give immediate definitive answers. I just always know how i feel about things. If you ask me about something general about the world, it takes me forever to get a clear answer, if i ever get there lol.
I had to train myself to express my point upfront first (like the judging type) because people would get mad at me, especially in my family and tell me to get to the point. Oddly, I find myself get annoyed when people just ramble on and on without getting to the point sometimes. Lol -INFP here.
Interesting. This is aligned with "process" vs "control" in Dr. Linda Berens' Interaction styles model although looking at different behaviors. Worth looking into I think. (Linda Berens stuff is awesome btw)
i'm INFJ and i have a hard time explaining my thoughts? Even when i have to explain, for exemple, if i go to the doctor for any other issue, i can't put into words how i feel, how i'm feeling currently, etc. Is extremely hard, i have to rehearse the way i feel or straight up let anyone that's accompany me in the moment speak for me, i add things here and there. Other situation, when i'm texting with someone and they can't understand what i'm trying to say that it ends up in miscommunication and confusion, is frustrating, because i know i use the right words but they can't understand what i'm trying to say and how i envision the things i'm saying, is like "No, no you are not right, you are the one that doesn't understand" from their part and i swear i want to pull out all of my hair everytime lol.
Is hard for me even more because of anxiety. I can explain better other people feelings and situations rather than my own.
INFP here. I feel like I use J lead too. Often I will say my opinion and people are flabbergasted because I did not give my reasoning. I forget people want a reason before you give your opinion. But whatever. Lol!
But what if you hate talking so you say "it was good" or "it was bad" really quickly to end the conversation? I do this all the time (because I hate talking!) and I type as INTJ. Could I have been mistyped or are there just exceptions?
This got me thinking about using the active and passive voice in speech. I notice that I tend to leave the most important information at the end of the sentence. (
INFP: I think some of our teachers dragged the passive voice out of us in writing, though it'd be really interesting to observe the presence of that in speech! My gut says it might not be as predictive because it seems at least partially related to habit and language structure (of different languages).
"Leave the most important information at the end of the sentence" -- that is a very interesting hypothesis. ENTP here.
Fits what the girls in the video said, that Ps begin with explorative talk and only then state a conclusion, and that Js in contrast begin with stating the conclusion. I mean it's the same pattern, but inside a single sentence. The same thing on the macro level and also on the micro level.
I'd propose an additional factor: What I often seem to do (same as it seems you do) is to start my sentences with a lot of relativizing qualifiers, exactly like your "I notice that I tend to ...". (Where a J person, instead of saying things like "It seems to me that A is B", may instead probably just make the spare declarative statement "A is B".) So with these qualifiers at the beginning of sentences, this would result in the "meat" of the sentence being pushed to the end.
Watching your hand gestures after you did my assessment, I totally see the P/J difference!
J lead!✊✊✌
(I'm infp too. The J lead is the part of me most fail to recognize. Its also the part of me those that recognize it get confused about how flexible how i am😊✌Just because those that see it in me assume i am hyper J i think based on familiarity of J in more common types? And because how predominant it is in me. But i often have way of moderating myself that they don't expect. Its takes a few months for those that get close with me. But those that end up getting close with me get it. 😊)
It does feel like evaluating for me. And i am very cognitive of all of it in me. Since a young age. Like 12.
I love my J lead!💓💘 I def need it in the mix of me, and as much adhd as i have its such a blessing👏💓💓
This was very cool😎. Thanks guys✌✌😙
I’ve been waiting for this video thank you
I work as a limousine driver and I talk a lot most days, I will talk until your face falls off your body, most people tell me I'm an extrovert and I do like to socialize but I can also stay in my room for days and be fine, I take the MBTI every few years and I've always typed as an INTP. I don't think talking fast or talking a lot has anything to do with I vs E
Does anyone else here think that listening to someone’s verbal speech is an unreliable way of deciding someone’s lead function? Isn’t it most likely to just be reflective of their first extroverted function? I believe this is why MBTI defines a person as eitherJ & P based on their first extroverted function (not first function) and it makes more sense to me as well.
What they’re describing in this video makes sense for what is going on in that person’s head, but not necessarily what comes out, unless their lead function is extroverted. If their lead function is introverted, this method of typing doesn’t work in my opinion.
Also, people switch between what functions they’re expressing depending on the context (eg. learning vs explaining), and who they’re taking to & how comfortable they are expressing their true opinions in that scenario.
J (Ti) lead: "That is highly illogical. 😐" -- Spock 😂
This really helped clear things up. I always wondered what people meant when they'd say things like "introverted perceivers are really more judgers" 🤔.
I always thought this difference in communication styles was an N vs S issue, reflective of differences in information intake and thinking patterns (big picture --> details vs details --> big picture, sometimes called "big to small thinking" and vice-versa). So is this actually a J-lead vs P-lead issue? Or are those two different concepts? I'm confused again. 😵 I interpret what you're describing as akin to Linda Beren's idea of the "direct" vs "informative" interaction style... which some people relate to I vs E, yet others relate to T vs F (as "direct" is seen as task-oriented, while "informative" is seen as people-oriented). Ahhh so confused. I think the only way for me to figure this out is to write out a chart of all the type's cognitive functions and look for patterns. 🤷♀️
Heather Bryant they say that IxxP's are more judger because they are likely to search for truth and logic which makes them more objective.
INFP: They might be discrete concepts because I guess both the big picture and details can be either evaluative or descriptive. For example "the world is doomed" is big picture and evaluative. "Many ideas rushed into my head" is big picture and descriptive. "My day was bad" is more detailed and evaluative and "I ate something hot today and burned my tongue" is detailed and descriptive. Again, everyone uses both types of sentences, but from what we've observed, the order and frequency are clues to if someone is J or P lead.
So, I'd commented earlier, but deleted it after watching this video again. I'm confused again regarding whether or not I'm E/INFP.
Say for example I walk into an ice cream shop. I already know what flavors I like before entering, and use those as backups if I don't find anything interesting there. But, I scan all the flavors and normally have a hard time choosing because I don't know which one I want the most even after asking to choose all of them. I think this is partly because I want all of them ahaha! I make it a point to try different flavors every time I go to a place that offers a bunch of flavors though, because I want to experience everything.
When people ask me about my experiences I always answer with what I think or felt about it first. I'll usually answer with, it was good, it was bad, I had fun - just to the point answers, because that's what it is. I'll elaborate after, usually because people want to know about the experience, I usually end up evaluating each experience while I'm speaking saying how I felt about it. This makes me think I'm J-dom, while instances like the ice cream shop example make me think I'm P-dom.
If I break myself down:
-I like to make decisions with groups based off of majority rule, regardless of what I want.
-I have a hard time acting on what I want, because I want to make the best decision.
-When in group situations where people keep saying, "I don't know? What do you want to do?" I get extremely irritated and make decisions for the group, because I don't like to just sit there and listen to nothing when we could be doing something.
-I greatly appreciate people who make quick decisions, because I'm usually so flexible that whatever decision is made doesn't bother me, so long as there is a decision.
-I know that I reply with this is that statements, but I often elaborate because I know my point isn't coming across completely to most people.
🤷🤷🤷 I'm confused.
I see a J-Lead. Check out the article on personality junkie about redifining J and P axis in IJ and IP. personalityjunkie.com/03/judging-perceiving-ijs-ips/
>I want to make the best decision but I'm not sure.
You want to make a decision (J) but then you are open to new possibilities indefinitely (Ne) and want to see them all and then you'll take a decision.
It was the same for the ice cream example. You know what you want, then you see flavors and don't know how to decide between them. Here I'd say it's just Ne acting on. In the end you'd want closure and to take a decision.
Mylaur wow ok this article COMPLETELY cleared things up for me. I related way more to the IP way of approaching situations over the IJ way. Thank you so much for linking that article. It definitely helped.
Im an enfp and yes I definitely describe events more, only making a value judgment later if needed. I tend to point out random things I perceive in my environment that my entj friend doesn't even notice.
I am so confused. Do you think that you can learn different speech patterns or use one speech pattern for one thing and not for another? Or could it be effected by anxiety or other mental health issues? I think how decisively I speak depends on what I'm talking about and how quickly I'm expected to say it; that is how much do I already know versus what am I trying to express by the seat of my pants...
Agreed... just thinking as I go here - I do think it's true that there are overall tendencies (I see in myself "judgement" speech patterns as an INFP and yet, if I don't feel I have enough information, I will sometimes withhold a judgement and even talk through things to reach a conclusion, like a P-lead might. I don't think this is an all-or nothing thing, it's worth thinking through...
"You're talking to find the answer" omg im so exposed😅
Very interesting look at the dominant function. I don't like how MBTI uses the extroverted function to determine J or P.
It's definitely more important to view someones MBTI type based on the what kinda function they have first. IxxJs are waaayy less concerned with external judgement than ExxJs, from what I've noticed.
I'm ISTP and my girlfriend is IxFJ and we're very different in some respects. She will sorta just keep talking about stuff and eventually I'll need to tell her to get to the point already!:p We arrange our sentences in almost reverse order it seems like haha
I’m INTJ. I’m almost always speaking fast with the J speech pattern. Although, in workplace atmospheres, I’m baffled by my relentless P type speech patterns. After auditing the anxiety behind it, seems the perceiving pattern is a byproduct of the strictures of my filter. What say y’all?
I’m more confused than ever now.
I loveeee your videos!! Thank you! I was wondering if you could do a video about INFP dating another INFP? I'm an INFP and so is my boyfriend (as well as the guy from my last relationship haha) so I would love to have your perspective on this (if you haven't done a video on that already^^)
I am INTJ. I find Calypso to be irresistibly attractive. Alex seems to like you too as a colleague. Do INTJ's naturally fall for INFP's?
Magnus Princeps I'm an intp and I have a thing for infp's. It's has to do with the childlikeness about them that's interesting and refreshing for me.
Thank you Izzy!
In my experience/from what most INTJs online say they don't tend to like INFPs lol.
INFP: I think TJs and FPs in general tend to like each other.
I asked people in the INTJ fb group what they thought of INFPs, especially romantically, and many saw us as too emotional, sensitive etc. Some may be based on stereotypes or certain kinds of INFPs, but I get the feeling many dismiss INFPs.
I thought I was an ixxj before, now I think I'm officially P.
I said "He played with it all morning" as an answer for "Did he like his toy? "
Oh to be able to decide quickly or even at all!😅
This is great! I'm a P and find that I enjoy talking possibilities and how I feel about a particular subject (Fi dom). Which I find that when I'm around a J and get into a conversation of any given subject they are ready to end the convo. And I'm thinking no wait, there's so much more to expound on!
I recall getting in a conversation with an INTJ about the possibilities of planting a garden and how cool it would be to plant and harvest your own crop. And he says "that's not a good idea. Because 1. 2. And 3. I've thought about this before and trust me and wouldn't work given location." And my perceiving mind goes Ok dude i was only talking what if, I wasn't saying I have my shopping list in hand and am wondering if you'd like to go to Home Depot with me? I so relate to open ended flowing thought. Would you say this is a P vs J thing or is this more of an INTJ quirk to take statements very literal (Ni, connecting dots)?
Your garden idea wasn't ideological enough for them to consider it as an idea worth flowing from, if they flow at all :p
Austin Bodiford Actually, if you're an INFP (or ISFP), theoretically you're a "J-lead," despite being a Perceiver (I know it's confusing). J-lead does not mean your 4-letter MBTI type has a J. It just means your dominant cognitive function is a "judging function" (Thinking or Feeling). In contrast, a P-lead's dominant function is a "perceiving function" (iNtuition or Sensing). It sounds like a paradox at first, but it's not so contradictory when you really think about it.
Anyone with high Ne likes to explore different possibilities and may jump from hypothetical to hypothetical in conversation. (I also have high Ne, I feel your pain). Being a J-lead doesn't mean you're a Judger in the classic sense. Both J-leads and P-leads can give long explanations. It's more about _the order_ in which you give information. I think of it as J-lead = states their thesis followed by supporting details, vs. P-lead gives a bunch of details working up to the conclusion of a point they're trying to make, which they often don't summarize until they're done talking.
For example, I'm a Ti dom, so since I lead with a judging function, that makes me a J-lead, even though I'm a Perceiver. So if someone asks my opinion on something, I might say, "That doesn't make sense..." and then go into an explanation of all the logical fallacies or inconsistencies I see, or ask questions to figure out where the error or misunderstanding lies. On the other hand, a Judger who is a P-lead might still have a typical J conclusion waiting for you at the end of a rant, but since they lead with a perceiving function, it's more natural for them to talk through the supporting points they used to reach their conclusion, before they even tell you what that conclusion is! (This can be frustrating to me, listening to someone talk for an hour straight without knowing where they're going with it, just thinking, "What's your point?" If I know the point someone is trying to make first, it's easier for me to listen to their explanation because then my Ti can fact-check as they go along.
Because you're an Fi dom, you pretty much always know how you feel about something (right?) and use your internal value system framework to evaluate information. So you can still go off on an Ne tangent, but your Fi will probably come out first in the form of a judgement. E.g. "I think it would be great to have a vegetable garden. It would help me save on grocery costs. Hell, it would save me the time I spend going to the market. Oh, it would also reduce my carbon footprint! And oh, I just thought of something... I could sell whatever I don't need to my neighbors! That would make even more of an impact. I wonder how many crops I'd have to plant to be able to feed everyone. Maybe I could accept donations. Oh, and it would also be good for this reason and that reason..." You see where I'm going. Even as Ne explores new possibilities, it's still expanding on the value judgement your Fi initially expressed. Your Fi structures & influences your Ne.
I think the experience you described has more to do with Judging types, and perhaps INTJs specifically. I always feel like my INTJ friends jump to conclusions too quickly with insufficient evidence. I think it's a Te + Ni thing. Being a Judger is more about the way you make decisions & structure your outer world, whereas being a J-lead is more about how your dom function structures your speech patterns or outward expression of your thoughts. And as an Introverted Perceiver, your top judging function is introverted, facing inward instead of outward like it would be for a Judger. Thus, it may be less obvious and hard to think of yourself as anything having to do with the letter J.
Heather Bryant Absolutely love your factual points here. Yes, totally conquer with what you're saying. Being Fi dom I already decide internally or as you said judge (funny enough) whether something is worth giving energy and interests toward. My INTJ friend will shut down a convo before it starts if he even thinks it's not going to be productive and if he has thought of it before. I'm an ISFP: graphic artist and photographer by vocation and gardening seemed super fun and like a realistic possibility at the time. I have no problem doing or talking about something if first i percieve it has value. Like it might be illogical in a Js eyes (or in this case INTJ) but it's not going to effect how I deem if it has importance/relevancy or not. And I see what you're saying in Fi as well conversely if Fi decides first hand that it's not 'important to their value system', we may already decide at the outset if it's necessary to go on. Just like was said in the video about ghosts. Thanks for your response! I hadn't thought of Percievers as Judgers and Js as Ps before.
can this change in an individual over time? when i was younger I didn't come to conclusions as much and was more descriptive and open ended in how I would explain myself...then as I matured I had to learn to consolidate my thoughts more and get to the point (felt that other people tend to get bored, annoyed, or stop paying attention anytime I would give complex comprehensive answers)
You guys typed me as ENFJ, and you put the J/P-lead section last. So I remember looking through the report and wondered how you decided the I vs. E. And I think that J/P-lead measure makes sense.
I'm Fi dom and I have a couple of ENTP friends and one INFJ friend and I've noticed that sometimes I get very short fused when I'm around them, like they provoke me to use short judgmental statements more, because I just want to stop all the examining of endless possibilities and relations between things all the time.
I am a little confused. I see that most of the time I start telling some story and left the answer for last, such as a P lead, but when I am in a situation of stress, such in a discussion, I get very objective and direct, such as a J lead. Which situation is the one that turns out to be correct?
INFP: When in doubt, I prefer to take more into consideration the individual's speech pattern when NOT in stress. I've noticed that P leads can sometimes start with evaluative statements because they've trained themselves to do so to fit into societal or work expectations. Speech pattern is just an external cue of cognition so since you're analyzing yourself, I'd go straight to the cognition. When asked a question, J leads tend to already know the answer, or mentally make a snap decision before thinking more about it and potentially circling back to their answer while P leads tend to leave the answer ambiguous in their own minds (regardless of what they say) until they've thoroughly observed what they perceive to be enough information. Hope that helps!
I'm a bit confused here. I'm lead Ni(perceiving function), but an INT*J*, and according to your J vs P speech patterns, I lead with the headline/conclusion, and then explain if necessary.
Although I do think there's a correlation to social introversion/extroversion and the cognitive functions, it's not a determining factor. But this video is genius!!
I pretty firmly believe im an INFP but I also wont say im 100% certain cause I like to leave room for other possibilities and also don't like the idea of pinning myself down. I think Infps are one of the most likely types to be unsure of their type lol.
But this video definitely established that im J lead.
This led me to believe my mom is definitely a P. She will ramble on and on and never get to the actual answer until you actually remind her lol
I'm not sure, but I know I'm more extroverted, unsure if I'm P lead or J lead because I do both.
IS THAT VSAUCE IN THE THUMBNAIL?
this just confused me because i relate to a lot of opposing points. in my case, there might be other reasons why i talk the way i do, so i wonder if maybe speech isn't a foolproof method?
J type wakes up earlier than P type
I wish I could meet you 2 in person!
great video!! thank you :)
Dayum that camera quality though :D
4:25 you say "J-leads - closed, decisive; P-lead - exploratory, open-ended". This is wrong. It is not the lead function, but the lead extroverted function that determines this. A 'P-lead' INTJ has a Judging function as his/her lead extroverted function (hence being a 'J'), and speaks with closed, decisive statements, whereas a 'J-lead' INFP has a Perceiving function as his/her lead extroverted function (hence being a 'P'), and speaks with exploratory, open-ended sentences.
Pretty sure I'm a J lead... not that that was ever a question, being the obvious introvert that I am, but most mbti and cognitve functions test say that apparently my strongest function is Ne...
I am sorry but I have to recharge way more than most people I know who have other personality. My husband would get so annoyed when I stated I need to be alone after social or so much time with my children. I am INFJ And I was bombarded by those who are sensory thinkers. All my family, etc. I have one daughter who lives with me and I feel free when she leaves every day. I love being alone. I am not liking that someday as an older person I may need help in my house. Future Projecting.
The more I watch the more I don't know how I function. Overwhelm. ENFP? INFJ? Discombonulated.
what mbti types are p leads?
So this is where I fail to understand(gel with) intj? They are not J lead like me. Ahhhhh. This makes so much sense.. Its the moments where i expect something different and the intj veers that im lost. Huh. Wow. Yeah. Because i just started to categorize it as 'the intj is doing this sort of floaty thing', 'i wouldn't expect the intj to do this' , 'the intj is doing this alot actually, damn i didn't catch this before'. 😎😊😄
Heh, Calypso sounds like Kristen Schaal.
Pretty sure I'm an ENFP because I've always had trouble thinking before I speak + I'm always getting my INFP friend mad by saying things like "let's go to a strip club sometime" I don't like the idea of doing huge physical things, though, because I don't like the idea of skydiving and possibly dying for no reason, lol. Like I don't wanna die doing something dumb, although that would be kind of a funny way to go out.
Sometimes I will wait to answer a moral question so I know I'm saying something I feel is correct, though. That's just because I don't want to say something stupid as I'm used to being made fun of for that. Ni leads actually seem to like to tear me apart, like I know this INTJ and INFJ duo who will critique my moral judgements like how I don't like eating shrimp because it's a whole creature in like one bite but I will eat other meat and I guess they think it's evil to kill insects even if they're going to bite you? They make me feel shitty about my typical perceptions of things to the point where it's annoying.
2:54 So if structuring information is the job of the perceiving functions, then is it incorrect when people say that Ti tries to structure information into a logical framework?
INFP: Maybe the wording was a bit confusing. I think both Ti and Fi decide to structure things internally. I think classifying requires some judgment or evaluation. I think of the perceiving functions as more determining how information is gathered and subconsciously "arranged", and also the "point of intake" (Si internalizing at the sense level and Ni internalizing at the intuitive level). We don't yet have a video on the last bit.
J for jiggle.. I mean judging.
I have dominant ne and my sister has auxiliary ni and she talks way faster than me
Baba is you
Pause the video, go to 9:28, and look at Alex’s face.
The Avenging Artist what about it?
I'm polyamorous and have two husbands, an INFP (of 10 years) and an ENTP (of 4 years). This past weekend my parents visited (Mom is an INTJ and Dad is an ENTP). I'm an INFJ. Interestingly, I'm often considered the most decisive in the group, but I notice that when it comes to choosing what board game for us to all play, we take forever as a group to come to a conclusion. Notice that four out of five of us are N-leads. Interestingly, my INFP husband actually took the initiative to choose the game after I said sadly, "Is it on me to decide what to play?" I think of my INFP husband as being quieter, less decisive a lot of the time, and not one to take the lead . . . Yet when he is sure of something, he's very sure.
I'm definitely a J
If this theory is true then you are saying Enneagram 8s can have a P lead and 9s a J lead. I highly doubt this is the case, though the behaviors noticed in themselves are interesting.
Ciaran O'Gorman entp here 8w7 with a P lead.... It does happen🔥
The clock thou ..
Yeah, I think it needs a battery. 😄
Oh yeah, she's speaking to ambiversion 👏👍✊
Lol what? You are obviously an INFP. You're like a carbon copy of my lady with the use of facial expressions. The facial expressions are textbook.
The INFP girl appears way too stubborn to be an ENFP. ENFP's appear (and actually are) way more adaptable
2nd comment!
This socionics stuff is just an annoyance. I'm an INTP, I'm a perceiver. No one would ever describe me as a judger. I take in a lot of information and analyze it thoroughly before I reach a conclusion. Introverted thinking is a more decision making function than extraverted intuition but let's not buy into this stupid wording. Introverted thinking is good at categorizing and organizing information. People that have a J in their MBTI should be called judgers and no perceivers. INTJs judge and conclude a hell of a lot more than me as an INTP even if they have dominant Introverted Intuition.
It's honestly hard to understand what you're saying.