Anything by John Steane is a treasure, there was no other critic of historical vocal recordings to compare with him. Thanks so much for posting this, it gives great pleasure!
John Steane was a dear friend, a vocal critic, passionate, intelligent - his well researched comments always fascinating. And he loved Callas. I miss him.
I had occasion to refer to him on Twitter recently (on recordings of Falstaff), and have subsequently trawled a few TH-cam videos to hear his voice again (thank you!). He is one of the few music critics whom I would read, whatever the work reviewed. And his gentle, rich tones on the radio! I recall seeing him in the audience of a recital by Gundula Janowitz in St John's Smith Square. The great singer nodded to him as she passed by on the way to the stage!
jmiller05 if you read though the description of Stendhal for Pasta's Voice you will have goosebumps from the uncanny similiraties: (quoting Stendhal for Pasta): she possesed an uneven voice in which the different registers were not made from the same metal and while she could produce exquisite coloratura she could also produce choked sounds that would convey the darkest emotions" - 1 century before Callas' appearance :D
I love them both, but rarely find myself listening to a Callas record. (but I hear her plenty - she is ubiquitous on radio tv etc.) Bur I do listen to Ponselle quite offen. She is more a purely vocal phenomenon. And such different personalities. Ponselle was not ambitious in the same way, and was not concern with her legacy. I think that attitude show in her wonderfully relaxed, easy flowing production, but Callas' focus, and high strung personality gives her singing a hot dramatic tension few others have approached. To see her must have been unforgettable. Nevet got the chance. These comparisons are fun, but I cant imagine being without either of them.
deadwalke the person who begins is Iain Burnside who is a Scottish pianist and fantastic opera devoted man who used to make presentations in BBC3 and the second man is John Steane who is one of the legendary Opera critics of the 20th century :p
I'm not sure at all! She wanted so sing Carmen... She would like much to sing some of Puccini's operas. That was the decision of the Met direction not to use her in a larger repertoire to preserve the egos of the other (great!) women singers... And for Lucia who knows? She sings pretty well in coloratura style some american songs of her previous vaudeveville repertoire! Oh well, she was such a great and talented singer, I prefer to say that we'll never know what she could sing perfectly or not ;)
I think the comparison to Pasta is appropriate. But it's hard to say because Pasta died far before recordings were invented. In any case, I think we've all been overthinking this riddle. There is a very obvious lineage: Elvira de Hidalgo. At least technically speaking, Callas is de Hidalgo's schooling applied to a darker and heavier (albeit not dramatic) instrument. I am not convinced by comparison between Muzio and Callas. First off, their voices were very different by nature. But putting that aside, even though both were emotional and dramatic in temperament., Muzio was a verismo singer, whereas Callas was a bel canto singer. Their approaches to musical interpretation were quite different. Muzio's home base was Puccini and his contemporaries, while Callas sang those roles purely for commercial reasons. I hear many more similarities between Muzio and people like Olivero and Clara Petrella. I think it's a bit unfair to say that Ponselle's high notes were 'bad.' She was always amazing up to a high B. (I would point to her recording of D'amor sull'ali rosee as an example.) And her agility was great. (Listen to Di tal amor; Ah bello a me ritorna; Tutto sprezzo che d'Ernani.) She was not comfortable with a high C and couldn't sing any higher because her instrument was genuinely dramatic and sat lower than Callas's. It's a bit similar to how Flagstad was always a bit tentative on a high C. Same with the agility: she wasn't quite as 'nimble' as Callas because Callas had a lighter instrument. They both had amazing agility, given how heavy their voices were respectively.
1. the comparison to Pasta is based on the description of Pasta's voice by Henry Chorley which if u read u ll think they were written for Callas 2. I too believe there is no comparison to Muzio (Olivero was a disastrous singer in technical terms, absolutely no comparison there either, just because someone sings dramatically it doesnt mean they sing well - two totally different things) 3. Flagstad - Ponselle - Tebaldi, created by the same creator, all with no C6... Ponselle's agility was supreme but because of the 0 training / technique the coloratura product was ridiculously inaccurate and resembling quacking as a sound which I find most disturbing (some things do require training) 4. Flagstad was singing very much like Ponselle with the fantastic Instrument mother nature provided with 0 real training or technique... and you dont hear a ceiling in her top register, I think Flagstad had several tones above C6 but with no technique the result was that she avoided most C6s and cracked when she attempted them. To paraphase Pappano's quote about Flagstad: When Flagstad sang you didnt worry about the next note, she wouldnt even attempt to sing it :D
It's almost preposterous to believe but it's true, Callas had a wagnerian sized voice that can sing intricate fioriture. Listen to the surviving excerpts from Turandot 49, or her live Aidas. Although It started to go downhill after the weight loss. There's a connection between vocal size and flexibility but it's limited; Price and de los Ángeles both were lyric, but they weren't nearly as flexible as Ponselle. About the similarity to Mauzio, he was referring to the repertoire, she was shifting from lyric to dramatic to bel canto while Ponselle's was straightforward spinto vehicles similar to Milanov. Ponselle's agility is truly remarkable for a pure dramatic voice, I assume her high notes problem was a more psychological problem, she was reported to be a nervous person and as Callas and Pavarotti both agreed, you need to have faith in you high notes.
Interesting comments I read somewhere that Callas would only listen to Ponselle - that she found an emotional depth that she didn't get from the more popular at the time coloratura nightengales - one funny thing however is why the reference to Giuditta Pasta she died in 18 something long before recordings - no one has that long a memory!
For me, the dilemma lies in finding ONE human being that could encompass everything Callas could do. I have my opinions for comparison but it requires multiple artists. I can see a comparison between Callas and Sutherland’s coloratura to a degree. Vocal size is harder only having recordings, but maybe Nilsson. When it comes to range, I tend the think of Fleming in Armida and how well the top and low registers were. I actually look away from the opera house and into the playhouses and cinemas when comparing Callas’ acting. The phenomenal Uta Hagen and Meryl Streep are really the better representations the the acting Callas was capable of. With that said, I’ve mentioned five artists while trying to make a comparison to not even everything that made Callas the legend she still is decades after her death.
thats what another ultra talented person had said: dame Judi Dench about Maria: it is (i think she said grossly) unfair when you think of Callas, to be able to act like that, to look like that and to be able to sing like that... and that is why Maria received so much Hatred in her life and she still does...
@@LohengrinO I’m aware of that interview with La Dench which is where I stole it from 🙃. Callas once said (I think it was with the moronic Barbara Walters) that acting could have been a direction she would have gone if music wasn’t an option or something like that. I think she would have been totally magnetic on the screen like Monroe, Taylor, or Hepburn.
Ponselle was more than just a great voice. She also had the most sublime vocal emission. Yes, she had little agility and was somewhat anxious to sing high notes (the reason here was purely psychological, not technical), but nonetheless, there wasn't anyone quite like her in terms of evenness of sound throughout the range. She sang everything without any effort at all - always producing a continuous, smooth, opulent wave of sound. Her singing never sounded strained, screechy or forced even in the most taxing pieces. This is the field where she reigns supreme to this day, and even La Callas couldn't beat her here. All this was thanks to the bel canto vocal placement (which requires the sound to be "close" (as in "near") and have enormous amounts of head resonance with secure breath support), which was, sadly, lost forever in the post-war (post-Callas) period.
Someone might argue that Ponselle couldn't have had the true bel canto technique since she had received almost no professional training, but, apparently, sometimes you just get born a miracle. Not anymore, though, not in the singing department - nowadays, our ears are filled with too much shit everyday, which, obviously, prohibits someone from becoming a truly great singer (with training or without it).
Ponselle's voice had great agility but it wasnt trained... the main problem was the extremely insecure top register... if Ponselle had an easy Eb6 and had pin point accurate coloratura no one could ever challenge her
Well, an Eb6 was out of the question for her. She was a dramatic soprano, not an assoluta. The same can be said about coloratura. Actually, for a dramatic soprano, she had a decent coloratura. And I simply can't agree that she had "extremely insecure top register"... She was insecure as a human being, this is quite different. The top notes that we can hear on her recordings are mostly, in my opinion, nothing short of marvel. Oh, how they soar above the crackle and rustle of those old recordings... Often when I listen to her recordings, I honestly can't believe they are SO old, because her voice is extremely clear, strong and ringing - very few other voices were able to be preserved so well (Caruso being the most obvious example of these few).
Her top notes were unbelievable but as John Steane says here she was reluctant in using them cause she was very afraid of her C6... as for the Assoluta roles, a singer with her range (deep contralto extension) and a secure C6 can sing Assoluta roles.. Caballe sang them and only rarely she went up to Db6... Agility Ponselle had, pin point accuracy she could have achieved by proper training... her lack of accuracy and pin point coloratura was just a matter or training... Norma is the most difficult Assoluta role and besides her A bello a me ritorna in which her coloratura had a "duck sound" effect due to the lack of training, the rest was great...
Yeah, her coloratura in the cabaletta indeed was peculiar and somewhat unpleasant to the ear... I agree. But Caballe wasn't an assoluta...) Just a wannabe.
Steane was a brilliant writer on all things vocal and operatic. There is no one like him alive today who can write with the wit and style of this man. His book, The Grand Tradition is one that belongs in the library of every voice lover. You may not agree with everything he writes but he is never spiteful or crude in his judgments. That he regarded Callas highly one only has to be referred to the notes he wrote for one of the many reissues of her CE's on EMI. Andrew Porter came close but he wasn't nearly as prolific but he shared many of Steane's virtues. His book of criticisms of the Met performances were culled from the New Yorker. I doubt if the book is still in print but it is worthwhile searching it out. Writers who loved voice and opera and could write are rare birds indeed.
it is preposterous to compare a singer who could sing C6s, D6s and Eb6s as if drinking a glass of water with a rather harsh or even ugly vocal timbre with a singer with a beautiful smooth voice who could barely sing a C6 in her best day but even then she would avoid it as if the devil would take her soul... I find enormous similarity of Ponselle to Kirsten Flagstad, both gorgeous even voices, low or no coloratura skills and natural but pitch precise singing without the least technique underlying.. singing with the Voice their mother gave birth to them
Just a simple question: Everywhere you hear/read that "she (X soprano) sings better/worse than Callas", "Callas can never be compered with her", "such a singing would never be reached by Callas" and so on. Obviously Callas is the standard. Why not, let's say, Ponselle?
How many of you every heard Callas in person? The several times I saw her, she was mediocre. How stupid to compare her to long dead singers whom none of you ever heard?
To hard core opera ppeps, Callas isnt the VOCALl standard. Too many flaws in technique, excessive mannerisms.But the biggest star of her time. The way you hear it at parties is _"Callas, she was incomperablre. A law unto herself". That usually gets me out of one of those nevr ending arguments.
Ponselle in her day had rivals like Claudia Muzio (who was the "Divina) of those days. Listening to Ponselle's "D"Amor sul ali" and and the Vestale exerpts is a delight and very close to what Callas did later with much more poignancy. Her Norma, though great, does not have the depth of the Callas Norma. Even if Serafin considered her a miracle it is rarely said that he added that the only voice he clearly remembers is the Callas voice. Callas recitativi were otherwordly (Ponselle is just like all the others, not really knowing how to bring those recitativi alive). Serafin certainly gave her the same advice he gave to Callas" GO home, speak those recitativi to yourself without the music and then put the notes on it..... Who managed? Callas and only her. Ponselle did not switch from Bruennhilde to Puritani and her upper register was limited . Also her coloratura technique was not very poignant (we are very far away from Luisa Tetrazzini) but Callas had the coloratura abilities of Luisa (with less brilliance maybe but with a bigger voice). That Luciano Pavarotti praised Ponselle's technique is one thing but he admittted that Callas was the better musician. If Ponselle would have been the "greatest", why so did she not stay it???There is enough recording material that would have carried on her fame....but somehow failed to do so. Even considering that the records fail to reproduce the exact texture of her voice they do show a very gifted but somehow quite static singer. That Ponselle's voice was more rounded and more beautiful in tone does not count. Callas with her very particular voice made theater history and she was a real "Assoluta" ( a voice type not heard since the days of Pasta, Colbran and Malibran...) Maybe Lilli Lehman and Burzio were the last Assolutas before Callas/ That Callas liked Ponselle is certainly due to the fact that she liked the beauty of her voice the same way she like Tebaldi's voice. That does not state what she really thaught. Callas liked some of Tebaldi's phrasing and thaught that Ponselle had the better means. That might be true but it also says that both ladies could have done much more with their respective gifts. Callas went to the humanly possible limits with her voice and created something never heard before or after. Callas was on a whole different level and even if sometimes one is wishing for more this or that one has to consider as she says it so well in Medea:"HO TUTTO DATO A TE"!!!! ....something others are a far cry away from.....
I fully agree and I would add: there is no recording sample of Tu che invoco second part (Su questo sacro altare) which is a miracle of legato and very fast canto parlato, extremely difficult to sing.. I cannot imagine Ponselle singing it (as once I couldnt imagine Schwarzkopf singing Ach ich liebte and in her full Serail the aria is omitted!).. Also, Pavarotti had said I think that Sutherland was the greatest Voice that means that the guy said that each singer was the best according to whom was asking him :D (being polite for all)... Serafin, I think at some point became envious towards Callas and it is only natural because Callas is hailed as the greatest Artist of the 20th century and Serafin is unknown to all but opera people... when a pupil takes a certain teaching and sends it up to the skies then it is the Pupil's Miracle not the teacher's :D (PS: Ponselle's coloratura technique was horrible and sounded duck-like :D quack quack... :D )
I disagree with Mr. Steane on this. To my ear, Callas is much closer in sound to Ponselle than to Muzio. Muzio to me sounds more like Tebaldi. I so wish there had been recordings in the days of Pasta. My guess is that may have been a very close comparison.
Ponselle had a gorgeous Opulent round voice... Callas an edgy rather ugly voice... Ponselle wouldnt hit a C6 in her best day, Callas would be drinking Eb6s like water, Callas had natural virtuosic coloratura, Ponselle's coloratura was amateuristic and duck sounding... Absolutely no comparison between the two. Ponselle was much closer to Flagstad, both Huge, Gorgeous, Opulent, Round voices that avoided like hell to sing top notes. Muzio was a rather ugly sounding voice as well... Tebaldi would be in the Ponselle-Flagstad category of Gorgeous, Round voices if she didnt have those enormous Pitch problems (she very often literally sang whatever)
@@LohengrinO The only time I can think of where Ponselle's coloratura may have been rather "duck sounding" was in the cabaletta following her Casta Diva. But I assumed that may well have been due to the recording techniques of the era, requiring that the cabaletta be done at a quicker tempo than it should have been, for sake of time. But her coloratura singing in Ernani involami (particularly the cabaletta) is impeccable. Especially that glorious trill. One recording in particular that really makes me think of Callas is in her Tu Che invoco, from La Vestale (th-cam.com/video/wz9Y3KmDtCk/w-d-xo.html). You can almost sense that Callas must have listened to this recording, as the singing is so similar.
...yes but try to find Ponselle's Su questo sacro altare which is unbelievably difficult step by step fast singing in middle Voice... a passage you only understand how difficult it is once u hear it from other singers. It does not exist with Ponselle... on the other hand her O nume tutelar is indeed Divine!!! each with his own strengths and weaknesses. Ponselle's coloratura never had the pinpoint accuracy of a true coloratura. Her voice had tremendous agility but as it most often happens with incredibly Beautiful voices, a very weak technique underneath. In fact i believe Ponselle was singing Opera naturally, with the voice she was born with (which makes her an even greater phenomenon but the final result is inferior to the coloraturas who spit blood in training)
@@LohengrinO Very true that there exists no Ponselle recording of Su questo sacro altare. However, I suspect that this again was probably because of the technology of the day not being able to fit both arias together, as was later done with Callas. I doubt that Ponselle was not able to sing it well though, as she performed the entire role of Julia at least in Italy, where she was greatly loved. The Italians would have booed her off the stage if her coloratura was too sloppy. Plus, although you are right that this is an extremely difficult aria, it's not really the coloratura passages that make it so difficult. The coloratura is not that extreme in this as it would have been in Rossini. I suspect Ponselle could have handled this aria adequately, at least. However, I most definitely agree with you that coloratura singing was not a strength for her. Certainly not as it was for Callas. And I think you are probably right that it's largely because of the natural character of her voice. I wonder too if it also may have been because of the era she lived and sang in. In those days, most coloratura singing was considered the sole realm of the chirping song-bird type sopranos, which Ponselle clearly was not. That mold wouldn't be broken until Callas came to break it. Perhaps had Ponselle lived in a later era, she may have been able to develop the technique for proper Bel Canto and coloratura singing. Just my thoughts, anyway. No way to know for sure. I just know how grateful I am for these two gems!
No no... not because of the natural character of the Voice... Ponselle's instrument was made by God himself. The agility was miraculous, u can hear it and it was all over the range from top to bottom.. but the Voice was never trained to upgrade its pefromance... not by a lack of teacher but probably because it was such a Glorious voice that she didnt think it was necesairy (same thing happened to Tebaldi, so gorgeous sound, why bother more??). Ofc her Julia was loved... her O nume tutelar is Divine... But I am positive she wasnt able to sing Su questo sacre well... it is IMPOSSIBLE to attack that fast in MIDDLE voice, it is a miracle of Middle Voice singing... again my opinion.. as Ponselle was disastrous in Violeta's coloratura parts and again not because of the lack of Voice but of complete lack of acquired (learnt) technique. Dont forget that Ponselle herself had categorized both hers and Callas' Voice as Dramatic Coloratura... the Agility in Ponselle's voice was Phenomenal... but u do need training to sing pinpoint coloratura well
'rich thrilling top notes'. Where were the Ponselle top notes? I admire Ponselle's prodigious warmth of sound, but everything else completely paled in comparison. Such a shame Callas still gets compared to people who were not on her level. that crazy Stefan Zucker once publicly stated he thought Magda Olivero was a warmer, more emotional singer than Callas. And Gina Cigna who sang in tune about twice in her career saying Callas sang with 'three voices'. The lies and resentments remain extraordinary.
+jmiller05 Nowhere to be found.. I think Steane makes that point here quite well :D the Olivero fanatics are Pitch Deaf.. the woman very often sang whatever... and they claim that Olivero lasted longer.. the way she sang all the operas she sang it is a miracle that she ever lost her voice :D it is not the same thing to be an Olympic Gold Winner x200 times and to jog every second sunday on the park near your house and then claim your feet lasted longer than the Olympic Winner's :D But people of Opera unfortunately are Stupid.. just like Football fanatics... Opera is the Football of the Gays
The Artful Me all those were desparate wanna be Assolutas, nobodies who were singing the most difficult Operas horribly.. when Callas appeared they went mental from Envy for someone who could actually do everything with her voice.. she could coloraturize like a natural coloratura, she could become heavily Dramatic like the heaviest dramatic soprano and then she could lighten up and sound lirico leggero... and all sounding like she was a Natural in each voice...
Anything by John Steane is a treasure, there was no other critic of historical vocal recordings to compare with him. Thanks so much for posting this, it gives great pleasure!
John Steane was a dear friend, a vocal critic, passionate, intelligent - his well researched comments always fascinating. And he loved Callas. I miss him.
been reading his comments all my life here and there...
I had occasion to refer to him on Twitter recently (on recordings of Falstaff), and have subsequently trawled a few TH-cam videos to hear his voice again (thank you!). He is one of the few music critics whom I would read, whatever the work reviewed. And his gentle, rich tones on the radio! I recall seeing him in the audience of a recital by Gundula Janowitz in St John's Smith Square. The great singer nodded to him as she passed by on the way to the stage!
Absolutely! There IS a connection between Callas & Muzio! Wonderful analysis and deep comprehension.
A direct connection between Muzio and OLIVERO....then Callas
Such a shame we can never hear Pasta or Malibran... but Callas's immortality on record is more than compensation.
+jmiller05 I somehow doubt any of them could be compared to Callas...
I think that's true. I don't think anyone other than Callas could become the embodiment of their art form.
jmiller05
if you read though the description of Stendhal for Pasta's Voice you will have goosebumps from the uncanny similiraties: (quoting Stendhal for Pasta): she possesed an uneven voice in which the different registers were not made from the same metal and while she could produce exquisite coloratura she could also produce choked sounds that would convey the darkest emotions" - 1 century before Callas' appearance :D
'choked sounds'. Just part of the Callas magic, the ability to deliver completely new, dramatic sounds with the voice.
Rosa Ponselle, Claudia Muzio due Divine, adoro le voci dei grandissimi cantanti del passato.
I love them both, but rarely find myself listening to a Callas record. (but I hear her plenty - she is ubiquitous on radio tv etc.) Bur I do listen to Ponselle quite offen. She is more a purely vocal phenomenon. And such different personalities. Ponselle was not ambitious in the same way, and was not concern with her legacy. I think that attitude show in her wonderfully relaxed, easy flowing production, but Callas' focus, and high strung personality gives her singing a hot dramatic tension few others have approached. To see her must have been unforgettable. Nevet got the chance. These comparisons are fun, but I cant imagine being without either of them.
Yes!!! Callas considered herself a continuation of the Golden Age singers! Pasta was admired by Callas.
There were many of Callas' roles, Lucia or Elvira that Ponselle could have never sung.. she wouldnt have dreamt of singing Turandot... :D
+Lohengrin O Is this you speaking in this video? Such a GREAT speaking voice you have.
deadwalke
the person who begins is Iain Burnside who is a Scottish pianist and fantastic opera devoted man who used to make presentations in BBC3 and the second man is John Steane who is one of the legendary Opera critics of the 20th century :p
Agreed: never a Lucia. But Turandot was well within Ponselle's vocal capacity, even if outside her temperament.
I'm not sure at all! She wanted so sing Carmen...
She would like much to sing some of Puccini's operas. That was the decision of the Met direction not to use her in a larger repertoire to preserve the egos of the other (great!) women singers...
And for Lucia who knows? She sings pretty well in coloratura style some american songs of her previous vaudeveville repertoire! Oh well, she was such a great and talented singer, I prefer to say that we'll never know what she could sing perfectly or not ;)
@@qzrnuiqntp Ponselle's coloratura technique was ridiculous
I think the comparison to Pasta is appropriate. But it's hard to say because Pasta died far before recordings were invented. In any case, I think we've all been overthinking this riddle. There is a very obvious lineage: Elvira de Hidalgo. At least technically speaking, Callas is de Hidalgo's schooling applied to a darker and heavier (albeit not dramatic) instrument.
I am not convinced by comparison between Muzio and Callas. First off, their voices were very different by nature. But putting that aside, even though both were emotional and dramatic in temperament., Muzio was a verismo singer, whereas Callas was a bel canto singer. Their approaches to musical interpretation were quite different. Muzio's home base was Puccini and his contemporaries, while Callas sang those roles purely for commercial reasons. I hear many more similarities between Muzio and people like Olivero and Clara Petrella.
I think it's a bit unfair to say that Ponselle's high notes were 'bad.' She was always amazing up to a high B. (I would point to her recording of D'amor sull'ali rosee as an example.) And her agility was great. (Listen to Di tal amor; Ah bello a me ritorna; Tutto sprezzo che d'Ernani.) She was not comfortable with a high C and couldn't sing any higher because her instrument was genuinely dramatic and sat lower than Callas's. It's a bit similar to how Flagstad was always a bit tentative on a high C. Same with the agility: she wasn't quite as 'nimble' as Callas because Callas had a lighter instrument. They both had amazing agility, given how heavy their voices were respectively.
1. the comparison to Pasta is based on the description of Pasta's voice by Henry Chorley which if u read u ll think they were written for Callas
2. I too believe there is no comparison to Muzio (Olivero was a disastrous singer in technical terms, absolutely no comparison there either, just because someone sings dramatically it doesnt mean they sing well - two totally different things)
3. Flagstad - Ponselle - Tebaldi, created by the same creator, all with no C6... Ponselle's agility was supreme but because of the 0 training / technique the coloratura product was ridiculously inaccurate and resembling quacking as a sound which I find most disturbing (some things do require training)
4. Flagstad was singing very much like Ponselle with the fantastic Instrument mother nature provided with 0 real training or technique... and you dont hear a ceiling in her top register, I think Flagstad had several tones above C6 but with no technique the result was that she avoided most C6s and cracked when she attempted them. To paraphase Pappano's quote about Flagstad: When Flagstad sang you didnt worry about the next note, she wouldnt even attempt to sing it :D
It's almost preposterous to believe but it's true, Callas had a wagnerian sized voice that can sing intricate fioriture. Listen to the surviving excerpts from Turandot 49, or her live Aidas. Although It started to go downhill after the weight loss. There's a connection between vocal size and flexibility but it's limited; Price and de los Ángeles both were lyric, but they weren't nearly as flexible as Ponselle. About the similarity to Mauzio, he was referring to the repertoire, she was shifting from lyric to dramatic to bel canto while Ponselle's was straightforward spinto vehicles similar to Milanov. Ponselle's agility is truly remarkable for a pure dramatic voice, I assume her high notes problem was a more psychological problem, she was reported to be a nervous person and as Callas and Pavarotti both agreed, you need to have faith in you high notes.
Interesting comments I read somewhere that Callas would only listen to Ponselle - that she found an emotional depth that she didn't get from the more popular at the time coloratura nightengales - one funny thing however is why the reference to Giuditta Pasta she died in 18 something long before recordings - no one has that long a memory!
I think to have read somewhere that Muzio was one of Onassis' mistresses back in the 1930's.
...and the first one to be called Divina, I have read that as well
For me, the dilemma lies in finding ONE human being that could encompass everything Callas could do. I have my opinions for comparison but it requires multiple artists. I can see a comparison between Callas and Sutherland’s coloratura to a degree. Vocal size is harder only having recordings, but maybe Nilsson. When it comes to range, I tend the think of Fleming in Armida and how well the top and low registers were. I actually look away from the opera house and into the playhouses and cinemas when comparing Callas’ acting. The phenomenal Uta Hagen and Meryl Streep are really the better representations the the acting Callas was capable of. With that said, I’ve mentioned five artists while trying to make a comparison to not even everything that made Callas the legend she still is decades after her death.
indeed the Combination of All was Callas' signature and the fact that ALL was in Genius level the ultimate proof of her Genius
@@LohengrinO It’s grossly unfair when you think of it. The angels were drunk with power when they touch Maria’s voice at birth.
thats what another ultra talented person had said: dame Judi Dench about Maria: it is (i think she said grossly) unfair when you think of Callas, to be able to act like that, to look like that and to be able to sing like that... and that is why Maria received so much Hatred in her life and she still does...
@@LohengrinO I’m aware of that interview with La Dench which is where I stole it from 🙃.
Callas once said (I think it was with the moronic Barbara Walters) that acting could have been a direction she would have gone if music wasn’t an option or something like that. I think she would have been totally magnetic on the screen like Monroe, Taylor, or Hepburn.
Le ho ascoltate all'infinito!!!!!!!!!!!!! Per me TEBALDI e'come la PONSELLE ,,,ascoltate le BENE!!!!!!!! Mari
La voce di CALLAS l'unica !!! Mari
GENIAL !!!!!!!!!!!
Callas is the best- without a doubt!
in my mind as well, light years above all else even dame Joan Sutherland
@@LohengrinO Why are you such a devote of Sutherland? She was far from a great singer. High notes are far from everything. She had nothing else.
Ponselle was more than just a great voice. She also had the most sublime vocal emission. Yes, she had little agility and was somewhat anxious to sing high notes (the reason here was purely psychological, not technical), but nonetheless, there wasn't anyone quite like her in terms of evenness of sound throughout the range. She sang everything without any effort at all - always producing a continuous, smooth, opulent wave of sound. Her singing never sounded strained, screechy or forced even in the most taxing pieces. This is the field where she reigns supreme to this day, and even La Callas couldn't beat her here.
All this was thanks to the bel canto vocal placement (which requires the sound to be "close" (as in "near") and have enormous amounts of head resonance with secure breath support), which was, sadly, lost forever in the post-war (post-Callas) period.
Someone might argue that Ponselle couldn't have had the true bel canto technique since she had received almost no professional training, but, apparently, sometimes you just get born a miracle. Not anymore, though, not in the singing department - nowadays, our ears are filled with too much shit everyday, which, obviously, prohibits someone from becoming a truly great singer (with training or without it).
Ponselle's voice had great agility but it wasnt trained... the main problem was the extremely insecure top register... if Ponselle had an easy Eb6 and had pin point accurate coloratura no one could ever challenge her
Well, an Eb6 was out of the question for her. She was a dramatic soprano, not an assoluta. The same can be said about coloratura. Actually, for a dramatic soprano, she had a decent coloratura.
And I simply can't agree that she had "extremely insecure top register"... She was insecure as a human being, this is quite different. The top notes that we can hear on her recordings are mostly, in my opinion, nothing short of marvel. Oh, how they soar above the crackle and rustle of those old recordings...
Often when I listen to her recordings, I honestly can't believe they are SO old, because her voice is extremely clear, strong and ringing - very few other voices were able to be preserved so well (Caruso being the most obvious example of these few).
Her top notes were unbelievable but as John Steane says here she was reluctant in using them cause she was very afraid of her C6... as for the Assoluta roles, a singer with her range (deep contralto extension) and a secure C6 can sing Assoluta roles.. Caballe sang them and only rarely she went up to Db6... Agility Ponselle had, pin point accuracy she could have achieved by proper training... her lack of accuracy and pin point coloratura was just a matter or training... Norma is the most difficult Assoluta role and besides her A bello a me ritorna in which her coloratura had a "duck sound" effect due to the lack of training, the rest was great...
Yeah, her coloratura in the cabaletta indeed was peculiar and somewhat unpleasant to the ear... I agree.
But Caballe wasn't an assoluta...) Just a wannabe.
Steane was a brilliant writer on all things vocal and operatic. There is no one like him alive today who can write with the wit and style of this man. His book, The Grand Tradition is one that belongs in the library of every voice lover. You may not agree with everything he writes but he is never spiteful or crude in his judgments. That he regarded Callas highly one only has to be referred to the notes he wrote for one of the many reissues of her CE's on EMI. Andrew Porter came close but he wasn't nearly as prolific but he shared many of Steane's virtues. His book of criticisms of the Met performances were culled from the New Yorker. I doubt if the book is still in print but it is worthwhile searching it out. Writers who loved voice and opera and could write are rare birds indeed.
it is preposterous to compare a singer who could sing C6s, D6s and Eb6s as if drinking a glass of water with a rather harsh or even ugly vocal timbre with a singer with a beautiful smooth voice who could barely sing a C6 in her best day but even then she would avoid it as if the devil would take her soul... I find enormous similarity of Ponselle to Kirsten Flagstad, both gorgeous even voices, low or no coloratura skills and natural but pitch precise singing without the least technique underlying.. singing with the Voice their mother gave birth to them
Indeed I agree wholeheartedly on Steane’s The Grand Tradition, a must read for anyone with an interest in singing and exploring singers of the past.
ÙNICA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just a simple question: Everywhere you hear/read that "she (X soprano) sings better/worse than Callas", "Callas can never be compered with her", "such a singing would never be reached by Callas" and so on. Obviously Callas is the standard. Why not, let's say, Ponselle?
How many of you every heard Callas in person? The several times I saw her, she was mediocre. How stupid to compare her to long dead singers whom none of you ever heard?
Jon Freeman that upon on you understanding opera and singing, what is mediocre for maybe is not for others ... think about it
To hard core opera ppeps, Callas isnt the VOCALl standard. Too many flaws in technique, excessive mannerisms.But the biggest star of her time. The way you hear it at parties is _"Callas, she was incomperablre. A law unto herself". That usually gets me out of one of those nevr ending arguments.
Ponselle in her day had rivals like Claudia Muzio (who was the "Divina) of those days. Listening to Ponselle's "D"Amor sul ali" and and the Vestale exerpts is a delight and very close to what Callas did later with much more poignancy. Her Norma, though great, does not have the depth of the Callas Norma. Even if Serafin considered her a miracle it is rarely said that he added that the only voice he clearly remembers is the Callas voice. Callas recitativi were otherwordly (Ponselle is just like all the others, not really knowing how to bring those recitativi alive). Serafin certainly gave her the same advice he gave to Callas" GO home, speak those recitativi to yourself without the music and then put the notes on it..... Who managed? Callas and only her. Ponselle did not switch from Bruennhilde to Puritani and her upper register was limited . Also her coloratura technique was not very poignant (we are very far away from Luisa Tetrazzini) but Callas had the coloratura abilities of Luisa (with less brilliance maybe but with a bigger voice). That Luciano Pavarotti praised Ponselle's technique is one thing but he admittted that Callas was the better musician. If Ponselle would have been the "greatest", why so did she not stay it???There is enough recording material that would have carried on her fame....but somehow failed to do so. Even considering that the records fail to reproduce the exact texture of her voice they do show a very gifted but somehow quite static singer. That Ponselle's voice was more rounded and more beautiful in tone does not count. Callas with her very particular voice made theater history and she was a real "Assoluta" ( a voice type not heard since the days of Pasta, Colbran and Malibran...) Maybe Lilli Lehman and Burzio were the last Assolutas before Callas/ That Callas liked Ponselle is certainly due to the fact that she liked the beauty of her voice the same way she like Tebaldi's voice. That does not state what she really thaught. Callas liked some of Tebaldi's phrasing and thaught that Ponselle had the better means. That might be true but it also says that both ladies could have done much more with their respective gifts. Callas went to the humanly possible limits with her voice and created something never heard before or after. Callas was on a whole different level and even if sometimes one is wishing for more this or that one has to consider as she says it so well in Medea:"HO TUTTO DATO A TE"!!!! ....something others are a far cry away from.....
I fully agree and I would add: there is no recording sample of Tu che invoco second part (Su questo sacro altare) which is a miracle of legato and very fast canto parlato, extremely difficult to sing.. I cannot imagine Ponselle singing it (as once I couldnt imagine Schwarzkopf singing Ach ich liebte and in her full Serail the aria is omitted!).. Also, Pavarotti had said I think that Sutherland was the greatest Voice that means that the guy said that each singer was the best according to whom was asking him :D (being polite for all)... Serafin, I think at some point became envious towards Callas and it is only natural because Callas is hailed as the greatest Artist of the 20th century and Serafin is unknown to all but opera people... when a pupil takes a certain teaching and sends it up to the skies then it is the Pupil's Miracle not the teacher's :D (PS: Ponselle's coloratura technique was horrible and sounded duck-like :D quack quack... :D )
Lohengrin O So true...thank you for your comment...
123pailin I completely agree with what you wrote. Same with her Maestra, Elvira de Hidalgo. The pupil went much further!
Callas had a bigger voice than Luisa Tetrazzini (in coloratura)?
We'll never know, but I don't think so.
@@qzrnuiqntp lmao, yes. She had bigger voice than Tetrazzini. Her Lady Macbeth, simpre libera blow Tetrazzini away!
Here is a amazing channel
Кого больше раскрутили, тот и круче.. Понсель очччень приятная для души, а Великая раздирает ее, хоть перед магией и не устоишь.
I disagree with Mr. Steane on this. To my ear, Callas is much closer in sound to Ponselle than to Muzio. Muzio to me sounds more like Tebaldi.
I so wish there had been recordings in the days of Pasta. My guess is that may have been a very close comparison.
Ponselle had a gorgeous Opulent round voice... Callas an edgy rather ugly voice... Ponselle wouldnt hit a C6 in her best day, Callas would be drinking Eb6s like water, Callas had natural virtuosic coloratura, Ponselle's coloratura was amateuristic and duck sounding... Absolutely no comparison between the two. Ponselle was much closer to Flagstad, both Huge, Gorgeous, Opulent, Round voices that avoided like hell to sing top notes. Muzio was a rather ugly sounding voice as well... Tebaldi would be in the Ponselle-Flagstad category of Gorgeous, Round voices if she didnt have those enormous Pitch problems (she very often literally sang whatever)
@@LohengrinO The only time I can think of where Ponselle's coloratura may have been rather "duck sounding" was in the cabaletta following her Casta Diva. But I assumed that may well have been due to the recording techniques of the era, requiring that the cabaletta be done at a quicker tempo than it should have been, for sake of time. But her coloratura singing in Ernani involami (particularly the cabaletta) is impeccable. Especially that glorious trill.
One recording in particular that really makes me think of Callas is in her Tu Che invoco, from La Vestale (th-cam.com/video/wz9Y3KmDtCk/w-d-xo.html). You can almost sense that Callas must have listened to this recording, as the singing is so similar.
...yes but try to find Ponselle's Su questo sacro altare which is unbelievably difficult step by step fast singing in middle Voice... a passage you only understand how difficult it is once u hear it from other singers. It does not exist with Ponselle... on the other hand her O nume tutelar is indeed Divine!!! each with his own strengths and weaknesses. Ponselle's coloratura never had the pinpoint accuracy of a true coloratura. Her voice had tremendous agility but as it most often happens with incredibly Beautiful voices, a very weak technique underneath. In fact i believe Ponselle was singing Opera naturally, with the voice she was born with (which makes her an even greater phenomenon but the final result is inferior to the coloraturas who spit blood in training)
@@LohengrinO Very true that there exists no Ponselle recording of Su questo sacro altare. However, I suspect that this again was probably because of the technology of the day not being able to fit both arias together, as was later done with Callas. I doubt that Ponselle was not able to sing it well though, as she performed the entire role of Julia at least in Italy, where she was greatly loved. The Italians would have booed her off the stage if her coloratura was too sloppy. Plus, although you are right that this is an extremely difficult aria, it's not really the coloratura passages that make it so difficult. The coloratura is not that extreme in this as it would have been in Rossini. I suspect Ponselle could have handled this aria adequately, at least.
However, I most definitely agree with you that coloratura singing was not a strength for her. Certainly not as it was for Callas. And I think you are probably right that it's largely because of the natural character of her voice. I wonder too if it also may have been because of the era she lived and sang in. In those days, most coloratura singing was considered the sole realm of the chirping song-bird type sopranos, which Ponselle clearly was not. That mold wouldn't be broken until Callas came to break it. Perhaps had Ponselle lived in a later era, she may have been able to develop the technique for proper Bel Canto and coloratura singing. Just my thoughts, anyway. No way to know for sure. I just know how grateful I am for these two gems!
No no... not because of the natural character of the Voice... Ponselle's instrument was made by God himself. The agility was miraculous, u can hear it and it was all over the range from top to bottom.. but the Voice was never trained to upgrade its pefromance... not by a lack of teacher but probably because it was such a Glorious voice that she didnt think it was necesairy (same thing happened to Tebaldi, so gorgeous sound, why bother more??). Ofc her Julia was loved... her O nume tutelar is Divine... But I am positive she wasnt able to sing Su questo sacre well... it is IMPOSSIBLE to attack that fast in MIDDLE voice, it is a miracle of Middle Voice singing... again my opinion.. as Ponselle was disastrous in Violeta's coloratura parts and again not because of the lack of Voice but of complete lack of acquired (learnt) technique. Dont forget that Ponselle herself had categorized both hers and Callas' Voice as Dramatic Coloratura... the Agility in Ponselle's voice was Phenomenal... but u do need training to sing pinpoint coloratura well
'rich thrilling top notes'. Where were the Ponselle top notes? I admire Ponselle's prodigious warmth of sound, but everything else completely paled in comparison.
Such a shame Callas still gets compared to people who were not on her level. that crazy Stefan Zucker once publicly stated he thought Magda Olivero was a warmer, more emotional singer than Callas. And Gina Cigna who sang in tune about twice in her career saying Callas sang with 'three voices'. The lies and resentments remain extraordinary.
+jmiller05 Nowhere to be found.. I think Steane makes that point here quite well :D the Olivero fanatics are Pitch Deaf.. the woman very often sang whatever... and they claim that Olivero lasted longer.. the way she sang all the operas she sang it is a miracle that she ever lost her voice :D it is not the same thing to be an Olympic Gold Winner x200 times and to jog every second sunday on the park near your house and then claim your feet lasted longer than the Olympic Winner's :D But people of Opera unfortunately are Stupid.. just like Football fanatics... Opera is the Football of the Gays
+jmiller05 "And Gina Cigna who sang in tune about twice in her career saying Callas sang with 'three voices" The shade! OMG!
The Artful Me
all those were desparate wanna be Assolutas, nobodies who were singing the most difficult Operas horribly.. when Callas appeared they went mental from Envy for someone who could actually do everything with her voice.. she could coloraturize like a natural coloratura, she could become heavily Dramatic like the heaviest dramatic soprano and then she could lighten up and sound lirico leggero... and all sounding like she was a Natural in each voice...
Better three exceptionally supported voices than one abominable voice.
jmiller05
Serafin: Callas does not have 3 voices, she has 1000 voices