I think the biggest problem with this is people's unwillingness to get passed even once down the line. I think there's a deep psychological skew in the direction of playing safe to cover the line to avoid that passing shot (and maybe your partner's scorn), while losing out on endless opportunities to cut balls off down the middle.
I tried this (forfeiting the tram lines) in my latest couple of doubles matches. I was passed down the line maybe ONCE but my opponents were tempted into going down the line at least 5 times and they hit the ball wide 4 x and I was able to volley the down-the-line shot the other time. So the odds were totally in my favour. Thanks for the tip. I also used the idea in singles and it worked even better (i.e. let them go for the side lines) because at around 4.0 level they often miss their target.
Fun fact, 70% of players I know would feel embarrassed or even humiliated when being passed down the line 😄. Also, most of them aren't confident enough with their volley and the poaching mindset therefore they'd rather stand closer to the alley instead of the center of the service box.
Thanks, Coach. After watching a couple of your videos,I have started further back and closer to the center when my partner is serving. The forward momentum and ability to move laterally more quickly has been really helpful. I'll see if I am brave enough to try standing even further to the center of the court now! I just need to shake off the "protect the alley" mentality.
Good strategy but problem at the rec lv I have seen is many players can’t control their serves, they will hit their partners, also I have seen number of players serving from middle the court instead from outside because they are used to that position. However I highly agree volley from middle if u have a competent serving partner
I wish I could share this with all the doubles players that insist on covering the alley. I always suggest that they move more centre of the service box to apply pressure to the returner but they are very reluctant to do this and leave me covering 80% of the court.
I get very frustrated with partners who try to tell me to stand more to the side. Mostly because they are serving from too close to middle or can’t aim their serve well enough.
@@StokkeTennis I love the chess match it creates. I'm typically a pretty active net player, but find I can get slowed down by returners who keep me guessing, especially once the point starts. Thanks for all of the advice!
Thanks for sharing your analysis. Most people would find that your perspective is spot on. BTW how does the ezone 98 feel compared to the percept and vcore rackets?
I sometimes play doubles with a squash player, and I swear it *FEELS* like he just stands in no mans land during a rally and burns me down the line constantly. I should record our next match and see if the data tells a different story.
You probably also have videos of positioning in doubles wherein the “inside” person shades toward the alley and doesn’t move leaving the middle of the court open to the baseline player having to take all crosscourt shots. Whoops: You answered that at the end of the video. Please expand whenever.
I play against two 4.0s and one 3.5 that can consistently hit down the line on the Add side with great 4.0 serves. I have bee burned a few times. By covering alley, j leave open court against my partner.
@@Isusasaves Again, check to see if it's in the alley or line. I've never seen players at any level consistently hit the alley (10x a match). But if they can do that, they should be better than 3.5!!
@@jakehits this guy is adept at running around hitting a forehand down the line. He's not a 4-0 cuz he plays mostly singles, and to move up you pretty much have to be undefeated.
@@Isusasaves if you see him setting up for an inside-in forehand cover the line. He’ll stop if you start volleying it back or if you can volley behind his partner to the deuce court.
The shot to hit in the alley is going to happen on the ad side - not the deuce side. This is because the forehand across your body is the easiest to blast in the alley. What will happen is that the opponent will get a weak serve to the ad side forehand - bam - they can load up and hit that into alley. I don't disagree with your general strategy BTW - I make people hit in the alley. But if you play with a very weak server a 3.0 style server in a 3.5 - then I just play back. Because you will be easy to pass at the net. So while mostly true - your example is a bit contrived. You will get lots of serve kinda up the middle that the guy on the ad side can pound into the alley.
So 3.5s can always hit that pull forehand on the alley? They must never miss forehands! The pull forehand is the easiest to change and go down the line, I agree 100%. I just know that 3.5 players can’t hit it in the alley on a regular basis, regardless of the serve quality.
No 3.5 in the world can consistently hit even against weak serves into the alley…the net is higher, tougher angle, they have to hit fast and clean otherwise the volleyer still have a chance get to it….it is not an easy shot….I haven’t seen people even attempted many times during the match let alone make it
@@StokkeTennis Tennis pros always go with these fictional imaginary players. In the real world there are lots of people whose game is built around their forehand. They can't serve - they can't volley very well. They can't really hit backhands. But they can spank forehands. This is the archetype for most men in my experience. So yes there are 3.5s that can hit push server into the alley. And there are 3.5s that hit simply dink the ball in for a second serve. This combination is bad. Play back.
There might not be a 4.0, but there's definitely a 5.0 that can hit it over and over. Your presentation is extremely convincing though. I'm playing with three 5.0's tomorrow night, I'll put it to the test.
I think the biggest problem with this is people's unwillingness to get passed even once down the line. I think there's a deep psychological skew in the direction of playing safe to cover the line to avoid that passing shot (and maybe your partner's scorn), while losing out on endless opportunities to cut balls off down the middle.
@@mightbefire bingo
I tried this (forfeiting the tram lines) in my latest couple of doubles matches. I was passed down the line maybe ONCE but my opponents were tempted into going down the line at least 5 times and they hit the ball wide 4 x and I was able to volley the down-the-line shot the other time. So the odds were totally in my favour. Thanks for the tip. I also used the idea in singles and it worked even better (i.e. let them go for the side lines) because at around 4.0 level they often miss their target.
Honestly I stand closer to the alley because I'm afraid to get hit by my partner's serve lol
Fun fact, 70% of players I know would feel embarrassed or even humiliated when being passed down the line 😄.
Also, most of them aren't confident enough with their volley and the poaching mindset therefore they'd rather stand closer to the alley instead of the center of the service box.
Thanks, Coach. After watching a couple of your videos,I have started further back and closer to the center when my partner is serving. The forward momentum and ability to move laterally more quickly has been really helpful. I'll see if I am brave enough to try standing even further to the center of the court now! I just need to shake off the "protect the alley" mentality.
Love to hear that!!!
Great video! Love these doubles strategy type of videos
Great vid. I've not seen this covered before.
Thank you, hope it helps!!
Good strategy but problem at the rec lv I have seen is many players can’t control their serves, they will hit their partners, also I have seen number of players serving from middle the court instead from outside because they are used to that position. However I highly agree volley from middle if u have a competent serving partner
The math analogy of 85% vs 15% will be used to attempt to get my high school players to cover the middle! Great example!
Great stuff again, Coach!
@@cjcycledude thank you!
I wish I could share this with all the doubles players that insist on covering the alley. I always suggest that they move more centre of the service box to apply pressure to the returner but they are very reluctant to do this and leave me covering 80% of the court.
@@kim267 please share this video with them!!
I get very frustrated with partners who try to tell me to stand more to the side. Mostly because they are serving from too close to middle or can’t aim their serve well enough.
Love this perspective. So, flipping the script…what should a returner do when faced with this type of net player?
If you were facing me, you'd have to mix it up. Lob some, aim down the line in the singles court, aim cross court. Be unpredictable!
@@StokkeTennis I love the chess match it creates. I'm typically a pretty active net player, but find I can get slowed down by returners who keep me guessing, especially once the point starts. Thanks for all of the advice!
@@trippwestbrook9827 The chess match is why the sport is fun!
Thanks for sharing your analysis. Most people would find that your perspective is spot on. BTW how does the ezone 98 feel compared to the percept and vcore rackets?
I honestly like them all...EZONE has a little more power for me than the percept,
Piper plays like Emma Raducanu. That's meant to be a compliment.
I sometimes play doubles with a squash player, and I swear it *FEELS* like he just stands in no mans land during a rally and burns me down the line constantly. I should record our next match and see if the data tells a different story.
Remember…down the line doesn’t mean in the alley necessarily
Thanks
Is this a deuce side only strategy? Only deuce side serves shown.
@@dwoytek43 maybe even more true on the ad side, but it’s true always. Down the line alleys don’t get hit.
You probably also have videos of positioning in doubles wherein the “inside” person shades toward the alley and doesn’t move leaving the middle of the court open to the baseline player having to take all crosscourt shots.
Whoops: You answered that at the end of the video. Please expand whenever.
Can you clarify what you want me to answer?
@@StokkeTennis Positioning of the "net" player (formation is one back and one close to net)
I play against two 4.0s and one 3.5 that can consistently hit down the line on the Add side with great 4.0 serves. I have bee burned a few times. By covering alley, j leave open court against my partner.
I mean hitting down Add side doubles alley
@@Isusasaves Again, check to see if it's in the alley or line. I've never seen players at any level consistently hit the alley (10x a match). But if they can do that, they should be better than 3.5!!
This doesn’t make sense. 3.5s can’t hit backhand lines and I doubt they’re hitting inside-in forehands. Check your positioning.
@@jakehits this guy is adept at running around hitting a forehand down the line. He's not a 4-0 cuz he plays mostly singles, and to move up you pretty much have to be undefeated.
@@Isusasaves if you see him setting up for an inside-in forehand cover the line. He’ll stop if you start volleying it back or if you can volley behind his partner to the deuce court.
Wish this video had a "thanks" option to contribute your cup of coffee~
The shot to hit in the alley is going to happen on the ad side - not the deuce side. This is because the forehand across your body is the easiest to blast in the alley. What will happen is that the opponent will get a weak serve to the ad side forehand - bam - they can load up and hit that into alley.
I don't disagree with your general strategy BTW - I make people hit in the alley. But if you play with a very weak server a 3.0 style server in a 3.5 - then I just play back. Because you will be easy to pass at the net. So while mostly true - your example is a bit contrived. You will get lots of serve kinda up the middle that the guy on the ad side can pound into the alley.
So 3.5s can always hit that pull forehand on the alley? They must never miss forehands!
The pull forehand is the easiest to change and go down the line, I agree 100%. I just know that 3.5 players can’t hit it in the alley on a regular basis, regardless of the serve quality.
No 3.5 in the world can consistently hit even against weak serves into the alley…the net is higher, tougher angle, they have to hit fast and clean otherwise the volleyer still have a chance get to it….it is not an easy shot….I haven’t seen people even attempted many times during the match let alone make it
@@StokkeTennis Tennis pros always go with these fictional imaginary players. In the real world there are lots of people whose game is built around their forehand.
They can't serve - they can't volley very well. They can't really hit backhands.
But they can spank forehands. This is the archetype for most men in my experience.
So yes there are 3.5s that can hit push server into the alley. And there are 3.5s that hit simply dink the ball in for a second serve. This combination is bad. Play back.
There might not be a 4.0, but there's definitely a 5.0 that can hit it over and over. Your presentation is extremely convincing though. I'm playing with three 5.0's tomorrow night, I'll put it to the test.
@@mightbefire take video for evidence!