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Have you ever considered doing an episode about General James Gavin of 82nd airborne division? If not I think a video about him by you would would be very well done! He is the father of the American airborne and would be great for your fans who have the most interest in the paratrooper aspect of the war.
my Dad was a WW2 vet..passed away in my arms peacefully..one of his favorite swear words was Hells Bells..first time i heard it i was smitten and asked him where he got that expression..looked at me and shrugged with a look faraway expression..never knew..but i still say that when i have to swear...and yes, many a folk ask me where i heard that...miiss you Dad..greatest generation all at peace now..
I’m so happy I’ve come across this video and your comment picking up on the saying “ hells bells “ my father also passed away 6 months ago and this was one of is many sayings, after watching the video and seeing your comment I can hear him saying it it’s a good feeling knowing where this saying comes from
3:25 Great shot of Dick O'Kane who was Mush's exec but was reassigned prior to Wahoo's last patrol. O'Kane was given the Tang and amassed a terrific record until a circular run sunk the Tang and sent O'kane to a POW cam. O'Kane survived the war and retired as a two button. He is also a MOH recipient.
The mission wasn't a waste. No one had any knowledge that the 2 atomic bombs were going to be used just 2 weeks later. And remember, Japan was just refusing to surrender. They were preparing to fight to the death on the home islands. Lockwood did the right thing and brought the fight to the enemy's backyard making them think even more. You dont take your foot off the accelerator until you are across the finish line
When the narrator mentioned the 2010 book and quoted it, I immediately concluded the exact same thing! That author had decades worth of beneficial hindsight.
I agree that the missions weren’t pointless! Didn’t mean to come across that that’s what I think, was just quoting a counterpoint made by a couple historians (that I don’t agree with). Appreciate you watching Marco and have a great week :)
Ya I didn’t mean to come across that I supported the beliefs that those historians had, was just trying to say that not everyone agreed with the mission. I for one think that they were worth it. Thanks for watching!
@@HiddenHistoryYT I doubt anyone feels that you agreed with the historian. It's more a matter of questioning Saskin, who comes along 60 years later and assumes he has it all figured out. Such assessments can and have been made about many of the actions of WWII, the Doolittle raid among them.
Dudley "Mush" Morton probably did more to win the war in the Pacific than any other individual. Not just by sinking Japanese ships (some sources now give Wahoo credit for 21 sinkings instead of 19), but by teaching American submarines how to fight. Morton was fearless, and his bravery caught on. He taught submariners to actively seek out and pursue the enemy. It will always be a mystery why Wahoo tried to transit the La Perouse Strait in daylight instead of waiting until night to make the passage,
There are a series of books written by Clay Blair about the submarine war in the Atlantic and the US navy submarine action in the Pacific. It is an amazing account and the struggle to improve the boats and their weapons is astounding. Not in a good way. Politicians then, as today can be real idiots. One US congressman actually told a reporter that they did not have to fear Japanese depth charges because US submarine could dive deeper than the Japanese depth charges were designed to be effective. There was no evidence that the Japanese learned this during the war. But good grief. Between carveouts in bills where torpedoes could be built, only in Connecticut if have this right, and their rate of failure, to the reluctance to use submarines the same way the German navy in the Atlantic. Blair's Pacific submarine war book is excellent.
@@jamespalmer4727 ..a marked increase in the number of US submarines lost, after Congressman Andrew Jackson May made his infamous speech, shows that the Japanese were listening. The Navy was furious with him.
We don't need to imagine, since nearly all Japanese war and merchant ships, were eventually sunk towards the end of the war. Afterwards, American submarines were returning to Pearl with unexpended torpedos, having found no targets, or having fired their torpedos at land targets or small, sampan-type, fishing vessels. (USS Bowfin for example, is credited with sinking a dock with crane and bus.) Still the frustration felt among the early submariners firing faulty torpedos,, must have been indescribable.
The mission both avenged the USS Wahoo while testing and establishing technology that is still in use today. The Wahoo was famous for it's one submarine Wolfpack rampage and this mission kept that Spirit going. The fact that American submariners felt subdued empathy towards Japanese submarines adds a sobering element to it all.
Odd, I thought the Wahoo was chiefly famous for its crew killing 195 allied soldiers under the impression that they were murdering surrendering Japanese.
One old story onboard the Wahoo was the use of a lazy susan with small models of ships on top. It was used to get an accurate picture of what O'Kane viewed through the scope. Looking at the view of the target ship in the scope he would give instructions to turn the lazy susan to match the track of the enemy ship. I think it was called " the angle on the bow". Info collected was entered into the TDC . When the proper firing solution was attained it gave an ok to fire.
Actually it was a training tool so that best guess angle of the bow could be made. And the TDC wasn't the only tool used to calculate the firing condition for torpedo settings. They used the 'banjo' and the 'is-was' Sub crews still have something similar I've heard
a miraculous tale indeed. is it me or does hidden history have the most high quality photos of all history creators? A true masterclass of production thank you sir!
Geeez!Passing through those compact anchored minefields,even with a flimsy Fm detector requires balls of tungsten and courage above description.We don't get men like those anymore.May we always be motivated in peacetime by what these men achieved and endured!Best regards from Spain.
Going to disagree here. The requirements for a Medal of Honor have been raised so high it seems to be neigh on impossible to have 1 bestowed...but men are still earning them
Wow' it would take unbelievable guts to penetrate a major minefield while under water. One would be risking one's life and the lives of one's crew on the efficacy of a new technology. If something went wrong with the mine detection system it would be a case of good night for everyone on board. The fact that these guys had to traverse these minefields both going and going out of the combat area exemplifies a devotion to duty of the highest order. Their nerves must have been stretched as tight as bowstrings. Talk about balls!
I have to disagree, it's easy to look into the past and play Monday morning quarterback. However, the use of atomic bombs should be completely discounted. The atomic missions, and indeed the atomic bomb itself, were highly classified and decisions had to be made without that knowledge! By running amok in the Sea of Japan it would convince the leadership of Japan that they surrounded and it was time to ring down the curtain. The submarine crews did their duty and did it well!
I agree that the missions weren’t pointless! Didn’t mean to come across that that’s what I think, was just quoting a counterpoint made by a couple historians (that I don’t agree with). Appreciate you watching Thomas and have a great week :)
@Hidden History Sorry, I didn't mean to hammer on you. I spent 21 years in the Air Force and worked on a nuclear weapons system the whole time, so I am knowledgeable of them.
Dudley Morton was definitely the best submarine skipper until his XO Richard O'kane carried on his legacy and became the best period by using Morton's playbook. Morton may not qualify for the "best", but he will always be known as the groundbreaker, taking a sub from a tool of observation to the silent killer we know today, and showed Okane how to get it done. One of his best credits is being the best in his time and training the best for the next!!! Cheers for Dudley Morton and Richard O'kane
Abnormal torpedo killed OKane"s ship, the Tang. Torpedo problems never were solved during war. Brave men kept going to war in subs even with that. OKane was on bridge, got thrown into water & survived war, along with 10 shipmates.
@@carolecarr5210 He was a remarkable man. Plus they were captured and spent the rest of the war in a Japanese POW camp. But in the short time he commanded Tang, he cemented his name in history as the best we will probably ever see.
@@gsenski Absolutely! And Fluckey was the first to fire rockets from a sub and set some of the standards for subs rescuing downed pilots and allied troops from sunken friendly ships when he rescued those Australians. Lucky Fluckey is for sure in the top 5 of the best
Prior to the Hellcats' mission, Japan had been able to use the Sea of Japan with near impunity, due to mining the straits into the sea. The Hellcats ended that security. As for, was it necessary questions, Nimitz could not know when would surrender (the same is true of the atomic bombings). BTW, the I-122 was a very old (as submarines went), not very potent, boat, and boats of that class were being used for training.
The Manhattan project was one of our most closely guarded secrets. Adm Lockwood, could not have known of it. To most of the forces in the Pacific, they were preparing to invade the Japanese home islands. So any targets that would make that job easier would have most likely been green lighted. It's unfortunate the later writers don't put thenselves intothe timeframe of the action but rather, devolve into armchair quarterbacking with the benefit of hindsight.
I agree that they definitely missed the mark in their assessments! I do personally think that the missions were worth it. Thanks for watching and have a great week Chuck!
Mindset is important to understanding the "history" That's one thing Civil War reenactment taught me. You have to 'walk in their shoes ' then you have a better chance @ understanding the history of the time
@Hidden History he was finishing USN boot camp when Japan signed the treaty/surrender so by technicality only, dad is a WWII vet. After getting out (3 months) Korea was made official. Dad only served 2 terms so would be recalled. He couldn't get a written guarantee to be reassigned Submarine duty (go figure), so he reenlisted to service in the then new USAF. With his security clearances, he was assigned to a forward "Emergengy" airfield for "crippled" aircraft. Actual usage was for spotter aircraft, which by still standing rules of war, was recognized as "spying". Yes... OSS (now CIA) was assigned to these Airfields. Because of his high/top security clearances gained in submarine services, guess who was regularly asked to join.
Ned Beach was the best authority on US submarine operations in WW2. Morton was controversial but very effective, he also was an excellent instructor for other captains.
Iirc Beach was aboard the Squalus when she sank. You can often see his round face and cigar in these clips. He wrote several very interesting books about the Silent Service.
I love it when historians re-write history. How was the admiral to know about the super-secret manhattan project, and all it entailed? But armchair historians who weren't there can always find fault. Anyway, Enjoyed this presentation. Nicely done.
@@Jman4535 Bingo!!!! OK next question. Feathermerchant, thats what we have for a captain, a feathermerchant. And the German sub commander, "this is not a good war. When this is over there will be no mercy for any of us." OK, name that movie. I have a few hints if ya need......
The thing is that they did not know about the atomic bombs when they planned Operation Barney. It would have been important if the war had not ended. It would have caused the Japanese to have to increase anti-submarine patrols in the Sea of Japan
Hind sight shows the Nukes weren't necessary either as the interruption of critical supplies were the death knoll anyway. "No plan survives 1st contact with the enemy." 3 gives a better survivability rate. Knowing that the mines everywhere were useless caused a dramatic shift in security. The devastation only exemplified the weakness. One night, in their secure bunker, and they are devastated. The Zero was getting phased out by obsolescence, their pilots had minimal training. Leadership was being cancelled as quickly as possible, and deep homeland cities were decimated by twin engined bombers with with no fuel left to return home, indicated as much courage as all Japanese warriors.
Strategically I’d say no. It did prove a heavily laden medium bomber could manage to fly off a carrier. Just! Man that must’ve tightened their sphincter’s more than a ducks in a power dive! Those B25’s looked like they were barely moving as they left the deck! Anyway the real and great achievement was twofold,1 it sure as hell scared and pissed of the enemy who were horrified and shocked it could be accomplished and it gave the USA and really all the allies a much needed boost in morale. That I think is why it was an outstanding success.
Minor correction: USS Cravalle was pronounced "cruh-VAL-lee", not "cruh-VALL". The Navy had a weird obsession about not using the 'correct' pronunciation of foreign names when naming their ships, so all had Americanized pronunciation. Cruh-VAL-lee was a buh-LAY-oh class sub, not to be confused with the GAY-toe class.
The Wahoo never sank the Destroyer of Guinea, while she did indeed torpedo the Destroyer IJN Harusame it was able to beach and be repaired. She also never sank a Seaplane Tender she spotted and fired at IJN Chiyoda before Morton took command but those torpedoes failed to hit.
Though daring and successful, at that stage of of the Pacific war the loss of Bonefish was not worth the mission. No sympathy for the Soviet ship sunk, though. The Soviets remained neutral towards Japan, and only declared war when they had an opportunity to grab some northern islands from Japan.
I like how a book author thinks they can cast judgement on decisions made in the process of fighting a war without the benefit of hind sight. I bet if that author could speak to the captain of the Wahoo today he would say he'd do it all again.
You cant backwards look to evaluate the worth of this mission. No one in the military knew about atomic weapons etc etc. At the time they did this and with the knowledge they possessed, it was of value.
I agree that the historians missed the mark on their assessment, just wanted to state that there are some counter views out there! The mission was definitely worth it in my opinion. Thanks for watching and have a great week!
Anyone criticizing this mission is benefiting From books and websites containing what I like to call history. Take away their knowledge of how the end of the war and they would be silent. What we know today about the end of the war only few knew it was possible. Truman did not know about the Manhattan Project until FDR died and he was briefed in. Note I said possible. We had the components for one more bomb. If Japan had not surrendered after the second or third bomb we would have invaded. The ships sunk on this mission were beyond critical to the Japanese war effort. Japan then and today cannot feed itself. These ships would have continued bringing food and war materials to Japan until they were sunk.
The war did NOT end weeks later after the two atomic bombs were dropped. That is incorrect. Nagasaki was bombed on August 9th and Japan officially surrendered on August 15th.
What do you mean it took down the ships that were transferring materials to Japan. And force the Japanese to increase anti submarine activities within an area that before then they considered their personal sea. How many submarines benefited from this? The reduction of support away from that Sea.
@@JohnMoore-qv4vn Thanks for pointing that out. It would be really interesting to see where the mines where laid and the route they took. Their mission reports might of given some detail.
It is easy for Suskin to sit in his armchair in 2010 and say woulda coulda shoulda. The A-bomb project was not known to Lockwood or the sub command. Bringing the fight to the enemy was the correct decision.
Hindsight for those who have never served, find it is easy to mock those who do and have. Is this Peter Susskind the GERMAN writer? Interesting for the old foes to mock bravery so many years after the fact..
What is he thinking? The sinking of the Enemy force assets, by Russians/Soviets expediting en trance into WWII before Nagasaki and realization the Japanese deteriorating situation saved 1.5 million Allied troops billions of dollar and more. .9😮
Lol for the love of God can you guys please try using your brains, is my channel name CriticalPast? It is clearly not my watermark, it’s an archive’s. Thanks for watching though!
I hope that us Earthlings, humans on this planet can learn a lot of our past conflicts i.e., rebellions, civil wars, world wars as well as struggles vs microbes and viruses. It's just 1X of the mind-boggling queries in my mind about 'em organic population reducing means in this planet: Is it just 1X of our Almighty Creator's over-population counter-measure means in order for us not to be 'eating each other' before finding another hospitable nearby planet to go to before our solar system's demise🤔 🌞
What? No mention of the home movie footage of Wahoo's officers shooting helpless, floating Japanese survivors with tommy guns? I saw this color footage on TV many years ago. Funny how some things disappear over time.
Narrator, your voice raised inappropriately. Admiral Lockwood was not informed in advance of Atomic bombs. Few were. Armchair critics weren't there either..
I agree that the missions weren’t pointless! Didn’t mean to come across that that’s what I think, was just quoting a counterpoint made by a couple historians (that I don’t agree with). Appreciate you watching Carole and have a great week :)
I stopped the video when you were stating the opinion of someone in 2010 who doesn't even register in 1945. Having full knowledge of the end of the war is not something they had at the time. Extreme few even knew about the atomic bomb. It was ignorant to even doubt a person living it live at the time.
I agree that the missions weren’t pointless! Didn’t mean to come across that that’s what I think, was just quoting a counterpoint made by a couple historians (that I don’t agree with). Appreciate you watching and have a great week :)
He has stated in numerous responses to comments that he was sharing opinions that he disagrees with. I agree with your point, however: Making judgements on the value of someone's actions based on information not known to the participant is usually an exercise in ego and about as stupid as judging the morals and ethics of people living in a different era by our own current standards. History CAN benefit from the research of those who come after the event, however. Samuel Eliot Morisson wrote an excellent history of naval action in WW2. He was observing and writing at the time. He was incorrect in a number of details, particularly about the battle of Midway, however. These details were corrected MUCH later, when historians with access to Japanese translators were able to study the records of the Japanese navy and compare/contrast that information with what we "knew". My memory may fail me here, but I think the book "Shattered Sword", which was published in the 80's or 90's, was the result.
@@HiddenHistoryYT To be clear... I watch your videos because they are well put together. I stopped this one at that point because of my own beliefs. Nothing on you personally. Great work!
This video could have been great if it weren't for your annoying and distracting "Criticalpast" watermark. It's not like you own the copyright to the video clips, so it is totally unnecessary. That earned you a thumbs down, and I won't be subscribing until you loose the watermark!
@@HiddenHistoryYT just one of the many torpedoes you'll have to dodge being a content creator, but your video was one of the best I've ever seen on this subject. Very well done.
the text is good, content interesting, but what you are doing to your voice is bad. It's like you're the awful tenor trying always to show off that you can shout a high C or compete with Tebaldi. You're putting stress on your voice/ vocal cords. Go listen to classic radio shows, narratives... and you'll hear how easy and sustained narrative can be. It comes from training, from vocal technique and proper breathing technique. A voice is an instrument, no different from flute or violin, piano and you can abuse it or learn good technique to maximize your natural abilities. You have a good voice, but the stress you put on it is bad. The content and text is good, but with you do to your voice is bad and can cause too much stress and fatigue. take proper theater or opera training. Hannity and Ingraham can do the total outrage machine, but there's never any stress on their voices. Never. It's just very controlled no stress voice technique -- melodrama. Go learn good voice technique. If nothing else in respect for your content.
I want the MRK 1 mod 0 crystal ball all these Monday morning quarterbacks stare at. The mission is executed with the best Intel, intentions and greatest probability of success. The rear view mirror of history is not always the most accurate depiction of what just passed.
If you love WW2, subscribe to our FREE daily newsletter where we explore events that occurred on this day during the Second World War.
You can check it out here: hiddenhistoryyt.beehiiv.com/
Have you ever considered doing an episode about General James Gavin of 82nd airborne division? If not I think a video about him by you would would be very well done! He is the father of the American airborne and would be great for your fans who have the most interest in the paratrooper aspect of the war.
my Dad was a WW2 vet..passed away in my arms peacefully..one of his favorite swear words was Hells Bells..first time i heard it i was smitten and asked him where he got that expression..looked at me and shrugged with a look faraway expression..never knew..but i still say that when i have to swear...and yes, many a folk ask me where i heard that...miiss you Dad..greatest generation all at peace now..
Thank you to your father for his service and God bless his memory, a true an American hero! Appreciate you watching and have a great week :)
I’m so happy I’ve come across this video and your comment picking up on the saying “ hells bells “ my father also passed away 6 months ago and this was one of is many sayings, after watching the video and seeing your comment I can hear him saying it it’s a good feeling knowing where this saying comes from
@@stephensmith8255 RIP to your father
3:25 Great shot of Dick O'Kane who was Mush's exec but was reassigned prior to Wahoo's last patrol. O'Kane was given the Tang and amassed a terrific record until a circular run sunk the Tang and sent O'kane to a POW cam. O'Kane survived the war and retired as a two button. He is also a MOH recipient.
Great spot!
The mission wasn't a waste. No one had any knowledge that the 2 atomic bombs were going to be used just 2 weeks later. And remember, Japan was just refusing to surrender. They were preparing to fight to the death on the home islands. Lockwood did the right thing and brought the fight to the enemy's backyard making them think even more. You dont take your foot off the accelerator until you are across the finish line
When the narrator mentioned the 2010 book and quoted it, I immediately concluded the exact same thing! That author had decades worth of beneficial hindsight.
I agree that the missions weren’t pointless! Didn’t mean to come across that that’s what I think, was just quoting a counterpoint made by a couple historians (that I don’t agree with). Appreciate you watching Marco and have a great week :)
Ya I didn’t mean to come across that I supported the beliefs that those historians had, was just trying to say that not everyone agreed with the mission. I for one think that they were worth it. Thanks for watching!
agreed, at that stage the US had no idea how far the enemy would go to continue fighting. Desperate times, operation was probably justified.
@@HiddenHistoryYT I doubt anyone feels that you agreed with the historian. It's more a matter of questioning Saskin, who comes along 60 years later and assumes he has it all figured out. Such assessments can and have been made about many of the actions of WWII, the Doolittle raid among them.
Dudley "Mush" Morton probably did more to win the war in the Pacific than any other individual. Not just by sinking Japanese ships (some sources now give Wahoo credit for 21 sinkings instead of 19), but by teaching American submarines how to fight. Morton was fearless, and his bravery caught on. He taught submariners to actively seek out and pursue the enemy. It will always be a mystery why Wahoo tried to transit the La Perouse Strait in daylight instead of waiting until night to make the passage,
Great points. Thanks for watching and have a great week :)
One of your best videos,HIDDEN HISTORY.Thank you brother..
Greatly appreciate it Mark!
Cannot even imagine how many ships he would have sunk had the torpedoes not been so defective.
There are a series of books written by Clay Blair about the submarine war in the Atlantic and the US navy submarine action in the Pacific. It is an amazing account and the struggle to improve the boats and their weapons is astounding. Not in a good way. Politicians then, as today can be real idiots. One US congressman actually told a reporter that they did not have to fear Japanese depth charges because US submarine could dive deeper than the Japanese depth charges were designed to be effective. There was no evidence that the Japanese learned this during the war. But good grief. Between carveouts in bills where torpedoes could be built, only in Connecticut if have this right, and their rate of failure, to the reluctance to use submarines the same way the German navy in the Atlantic. Blair's Pacific submarine war book is excellent.
Hell...imagine how many.
"...... sunk
altogether's'.." would have been!!
@@jamespalmer4727 ..a marked increase in the number of US submarines lost, after Congressman Andrew Jackson May made his infamous speech, shows that the Japanese were listening. The Navy was furious with him.
We don't need to imagine, since nearly all Japanese war and merchant ships, were eventually sunk towards the end of the war. Afterwards, American submarines were returning to Pearl with unexpended torpedos, having found no targets, or having fired their torpedos at land targets or small, sampan-type, fishing vessels. (USS Bowfin for example, is credited with sinking a dock with crane and bus.)
Still the frustration felt among the early submariners firing faulty torpedos,, must have been indescribable.
Absolutely criminal in my opinion how bad they were
The mission both avenged the USS Wahoo while testing and establishing technology that is still in use today. The Wahoo was famous for it's one submarine Wolfpack rampage and this mission kept that Spirit going. The fact that American submariners felt subdued empathy towards Japanese submarines adds a sobering element to it all.
Definitely worth it in my opinion! Thanks for watching and have a great week Manuel :)
Odd, I thought the Wahoo was chiefly famous for its crew killing 195 allied soldiers under the impression that they were murdering surrendering Japanese.
The Sea Dog (SS401) was our reserve sub div 1-11 boat in 1966-1972. I took my enlistment oath on her quarterdeck in April 1966.
That’s incredible, thanks for sharing Eric! Most of all, thank you for your service! Appreciate you watching and have a great week :)
One old story onboard the Wahoo was the use of a lazy susan with small models of ships on top. It was used to get an accurate picture of what O'Kane viewed through the scope. Looking at the view of the target ship in the scope he would give instructions to turn the lazy susan to match the track of the enemy ship. I think it was called " the angle on the bow". Info collected was entered into the TDC . When the proper firing solution was attained it gave an ok to fire.
Great information here Ed, thanks for sharing! Appreciate you watching and have a great week :)
Actually it was a training tool so that best guess angle of the bow could be made.
And the TDC wasn't the only tool used to calculate the firing condition for torpedo settings. They used the 'banjo' and the 'is-was'
Sub crews still have something similar I've heard
a miraculous tale indeed. is it me or does hidden history have the most high quality photos of all history creators? A true masterclass of production thank you sir!
Geeez!Passing through those compact anchored minefields,even with a flimsy Fm detector requires balls of tungsten and courage above description.We don't get men like those anymore.May we always be motivated in peacetime by what these men achieved and endured!Best regards from Spain.
Completely agree with you! Thanks for watching :)
Going to disagree here.
The requirements for a Medal of Honor have been raised so high it seems to be neigh on impossible to have 1 bestowed...but men are still earning them
You forgot the broom…. Attached to the periscope. On that third patrol.
Ahhh rats, great point! Thanks for watching Jeff and have a great week :)
Wow' it would take unbelievable guts to penetrate a major minefield while under water. One would be risking one's life and the lives of one's crew on the efficacy of a new technology. If something went wrong with the mine detection system it would be a case of good night for everyone on board. The fact that these guys had to traverse these minefields both going and going out of the combat area exemplifies a devotion to duty of the highest order. Their nerves must have been stretched as tight as bowstrings. Talk about balls!
I cannot even imagine how tense it must have been! Thanks for watching and have a great week Nigel!
Great video. Very well organized to bring together may details. 👍
Appreciate the kind words! Thanks for watching and have a great week :)
I have to disagree, it's easy to look into the past and play Monday morning quarterback. However, the use of atomic bombs should be completely discounted. The atomic missions, and indeed the atomic bomb itself, were highly classified and decisions had to be made without that knowledge! By running amok in the Sea of Japan it would convince the leadership of Japan that they surrounded and it was time to ring down the curtain. The submarine crews did their duty and did it well!
I agree that the missions weren’t pointless! Didn’t mean to come across that that’s what I think, was just quoting a counterpoint made by a couple historians (that I don’t agree with). Appreciate you watching Thomas and have a great week :)
@Hidden History Sorry, I didn't mean to hammer on you. I spent 21 years in the Air Force and worked on a nuclear weapons system the whole time, so I am knowledgeable of them.
@@tfp0052 it’s all good! And thank you for your service Thomas! Have a great week :)
The Japanese merchant marine was utterly destroyed by the 'silent service '.
Dudley Morton was definitely the best submarine skipper until his XO Richard O'kane carried on his legacy and became the best period by using Morton's playbook. Morton may not qualify for the "best", but he will always be known as the groundbreaker, taking a sub from a tool of observation to the silent killer we know today, and showed Okane how to get it done. One of his best credits is being the best in his time and training the best for the next!!! Cheers for Dudley Morton and Richard O'kane
Abnormal torpedo killed OKane"s ship, the Tang. Torpedo problems never were solved during war. Brave men kept going to war in subs even with that. OKane was on bridge, got thrown into water & survived war, along with 10 shipmates.
@@carolecarr5210 He was a remarkable man. Plus they were captured and spent the rest of the war in a Japanese POW camp. But in the short time he commanded Tang, he cemented his name in history as the best we will probably ever see.
I would also like to mention Eugene B. Fluckey and the crew of the U.S.S. Barb. They even sank a freight train.
@@gsenski Absolutely! And Fluckey was the first to fire rockets from a sub and set some of the standards for subs rescuing downed pilots and allied troops from sunken friendly ships when he rescued those Australians. Lucky Fluckey is for sure in the top 5 of the best
@@gsenski Also the most tonnage
Prior to the Hellcats' mission, Japan had been able to use the Sea of Japan with near impunity, due to mining the straits into the sea. The Hellcats ended that security. As for, was it necessary questions, Nimitz could not know when would surrender (the same is true of the atomic bombings). BTW, the I-122 was a very old (as submarines went), not very potent, boat, and boats of that class were being used for training.
Great information Pete! Was definitely not a worthless mission. Thanks for watching and have a great week!
Great video
Greatly appreciate it! Thanks for watching and have a fantastic week :)
Very interesting story, thanks for sharing and the good quality. Will have to subscribe now.
Appreciate the kind words Greg! Thanks for watching and have a great week :)
The Manhattan project was one of our most closely guarded secrets. Adm Lockwood, could not have known of it. To most of the forces in the Pacific, they were preparing to invade the Japanese home islands. So any targets that would make that job easier would have most likely been green lighted.
It's unfortunate the later writers don't put thenselves intothe timeframe of the action but rather, devolve into armchair quarterbacking with the benefit of hindsight.
I agree that they definitely missed the mark in their assessments! I do personally think that the missions were worth it. Thanks for watching and have a great week Chuck!
Hell, not even the vice president was stunned when informed after he was sworn in as president
Mindset is important to understanding the "history"
That's one thing Civil War reenactment taught me.
You have to 'walk in their shoes ' then you have a better chance @ understanding the history of the time
EXCELLENT WORK
Appreciate it!
God rest their souls,crew of the wahoo forever
Agreed!
Little did we know August would be good.
Appreciate you watching and have a great week :)
My father served on the USS Flying Fish/ss229 post World War II.
Thank you to him for his service! We are all indebted to him!
@Hidden History he was finishing USN boot camp when Japan signed the treaty/surrender so by technicality only, dad is a WWII vet. After getting out (3 months) Korea was made official. Dad only served 2 terms so would be recalled. He couldn't get a written guarantee to be reassigned Submarine duty (go figure), so he reenlisted to service in the then new USAF. With his security clearances, he was assigned to a forward "Emergengy" airfield for "crippled" aircraft. Actual usage was for spotter aircraft, which by still standing rules of war, was recognized as "spying". Yes... OSS (now CIA) was assigned to these Airfields. Because of his high/top security clearances gained in submarine services, guess who was regularly asked to join.
@@jamesluke7377 Vert interesting, thank you for sharing!
Ned Beach was the best authority on US submarine operations in WW2. Morton was controversial but very effective, he also was an excellent instructor for other captains.
Very true! Thanks for watching!
Iirc Beach was aboard the Squalus when she sank. You can often see his round face and cigar in these clips. He wrote several very interesting books about the Silent Service.
It should not come as a surprise to anybody that the Wahoo is still talked about today by those of us who ride boats.
Appreciate you watching & have a great week :)
Excellent stuff bro
Appreciate it Clarence! Thanks for watching and have a great week :)
I love it when historians re-write history. How was the admiral to know about the super-secret manhattan project, and all it entailed? But armchair historians who weren't there can always find fault. Anyway, Enjoyed this presentation. Nicely done.
I agree! Was just presenting counter points (which I don’t agree with). Appreciate you watching Jaye and have a great week :)
Due to conditions of special advantage I have decided to take this boat to the Bungo Straights. OK people, name THAT movie LOL..........
Run silent run deep (;
@@Jman4535 Bingo!!!! OK next question. Feathermerchant, thats what we have for a captain, a feathermerchant. And the German sub commander, "this is not a good war. When this is over there will be no mercy for any of us." OK, name that movie. I have a few hints if ya need......
@@renardfranse caught me off guard, haven't seen many sub movies from the German side. A few hints might help lol
@@KJB7777 one of my favorites!
@@Jman4535 OK Robert Michum was the US destroyer Captain and Kurt Jurgens was the Uboat commander
Deserved!
Hind sight is always 20 / 20. No one knew the A-Bomb excised.
I agree! Thanks for watching and have a great week Leroy!
The thing is that they did not know about the atomic bombs when they planned Operation Barney. It would have been important if the war had not ended. It would have caused the Japanese to have to increase anti-submarine patrols in the Sea of Japan
Thanks for watching and have a great week :)
Hind sight shows the Nukes weren't necessary either as the interruption of critical supplies were the death knoll anyway. "No plan survives 1st contact with the enemy." 3 gives a better survivability rate.
Knowing that the mines everywhere were useless caused a dramatic shift in security. The devastation only exemplified the weakness. One night, in their secure bunker, and they are devastated. The Zero was getting phased out by obsolescence, their pilots had minimal training. Leadership was being cancelled as quickly as possible, and deep homeland cities were decimated by twin engined bombers with with no fuel left to return home, indicated as much courage as all Japanese warriors.
Thanks for sharing Bryan, I agree that hindsight is 20/20. Appreciate you watching and have a great week!
Virtually every city had been put to the torch by the firebombing raids
That's the real implication
And it was 4 engines not 2
Was the Doolittle raid worth the risk?
Strategically I’d say no. It did prove a heavily laden medium bomber could manage to fly off a carrier. Just! Man that must’ve tightened their sphincter’s more than a ducks in a power dive! Those B25’s looked like they were barely moving as they left the deck! Anyway the real and great achievement was twofold,1 it sure as hell scared and pissed of the enemy who were horrified and shocked it could be accomplished and it gave the USA and really all the allies a much needed boost in morale. That I think is why it was an outstanding success.
I personally think it most definitely was!
Minor correction: USS Cravalle was pronounced "cruh-VAL-lee", not "cruh-VALL". The Navy had a weird obsession about not using the 'correct' pronunciation of foreign names when naming their ships, so all had Americanized pronunciation. Cruh-VAL-lee was a buh-LAY-oh class sub, not to be confused with the GAY-toe class.
Appreciate it! Thanks for watching :)
The Wahoo never sank the Destroyer of Guinea, while she did indeed torpedo the Destroyer IJN Harusame it was able to beach and be repaired. She also never sank a Seaplane Tender she spotted and fired at IJN Chiyoda before Morton took command but those torpedoes failed to hit.
Though daring and successful, at that stage of of the Pacific war the loss of Bonefish was not worth the mission. No sympathy for the Soviet ship sunk, though. The Soviets remained neutral towards Japan, and only declared war when they had an opportunity to grab some northern islands from Japan.
Thanks for sharing this perspective Frank! Appreciate you watching!
Actually it was decided at Potsdam that the Russians would attack 3 months after Germany surrendered... and that's exactly what they did 8 August
I like how a book author thinks they can cast judgement on decisions made in the process of fighting a war without the benefit of hind sight. I bet if that author could speak to the captain of the Wahoo today he would say he'd do it all again.
Ya I personally think he missed the mark with his assessment there. Thanks for watching and have a great week!
It is criminal that the torpedos were given to these skippers.
I hope to hell the men responsible faced consequences.
Completely agree! Thanks for watching :)
The chief of BuOrd caught hell from Lockwood and in the logbooks of the subs. Otherwise, no
Fm. No static at all
You cant backwards look to evaluate the worth of this mission. No one in the military knew about atomic weapons etc etc. At the time they did this and with the knowledge they possessed, it was of value.
I agree that the historians missed the mark on their assessment, just wanted to state that there are some counter views out there! The mission was definitely worth it in my opinion. Thanks for watching and have a great week!
Anyone criticizing this mission is benefiting From books and websites containing what I like to call history. Take away their knowledge of how the end of the war and they would be silent. What we know today about the end of the war only few knew it was possible. Truman did not know about the Manhattan Project until FDR died and he was briefed in. Note I said possible. We had the components for one more bomb. If Japan had not surrendered after the second or third bomb we would have invaded. The ships sunk on this mission were beyond critical to the Japanese war effort. Japan then and today cannot feed itself. These ships would have continued bringing food and war materials to Japan until they were sunk.
I completely agree with you John! Was definitely not a worthless mission in my opinion. As always thanks for watching! Hope you have a great week :)
Brave men.
Completely agree Ken! Thanks for watching and have a great week :)
The war did NOT end weeks later after the two atomic bombs were dropped. That is incorrect. Nagasaki was bombed on August 9th and Japan officially surrendered on August 15th.
Hard to watch with the constant logo do don't know how it ended
Enough was enough
Lol
I can’t watch videos with text crawling all over it.
Has the Bonefish been found?
I don’t believe so www.oneternalpatrol.com/uss-bonefish-223-loss.html
@@HiddenHistoryYT thanks👍
@@johncox2865 of course :)
You didn't honor Muss Morton!
What do you mean it took down the ships that were transferring materials to Japan. And force the Japanese to increase anti submarine activities within an area that before then they considered their personal sea. How many submarines benefited from this? The reduction of support away from that Sea.
Where is la peru strait? I see Korea strait and Tsushima strait.
La Perouse Strait is between the northern island of Hokaido and Sakhalin Island.
Correct, beat me to it! Appreciate both of you watching!
@@JohnMoore-qv4vn Thanks for pointing that out. It would be really interesting to see where the mines where laid and the route they took. Their mission reports might of given some detail.
@@HiddenHistoryYT Do you have the mission report(s) from any of the submarines that participated?
@@klrmoto This might be your best bet: www.navsource.org/archives/subidx.htm
It is easy for Suskin to sit in his armchair in 2010 and say woulda coulda shoulda. The A-bomb project was not known to Lockwood or the sub command. Bringing the fight to the enemy was the correct decision.
I completely agree with you here Kim! Thanks for watching and have a great week :)
Hindsight for those who have never served, find it is easy to mock those who do and have. Is this Peter Susskind the GERMAN writer? Interesting for the old foes to mock bravery so many years after the fact..
What is he thinking? The sinking of the Enemy force assets, by Russians/Soviets expediting en trance into WWII before Nagasaki and realization the Japanese deteriorating situation saved 1.5 million Allied troops billions of dollar and more.
.9😮
Your name on the middle reduces my respect for this channel and those who make it!
Lol for the love of God can you guys please try using your brains, is my channel name CriticalPast? It is clearly not my watermark, it’s an archive’s. Thanks for watching though!
@@HiddenHistoryYTLMAS, nothing like friendly fire. Now you know how those Indians felt getting shot up by Morton and his crew.😄
@@gsenski 😂😂
I hope that us Earthlings, humans on this planet can learn a lot of our past conflicts i.e., rebellions, civil wars, world wars as well as struggles vs microbes and viruses.
It's just 1X of the mind-boggling queries in my mind about 'em organic population reducing means in this planet: Is it just 1X of our Almighty Creator's over-population counter-measure means in order for us not to be 'eating each other' before finding another hospitable nearby planet to go to before our solar system's demise🤔 🌞
Unfortunately I don’t think that we ever will. Appreciate you watching and have a great week Rudy :)
What? No mention of the home movie footage of Wahoo's officers shooting helpless, floating Japanese survivors with tommy guns? I saw this color footage on TV many years ago. Funny how some things disappear over time.
This is the first I’m hearing of this, could you possibly link me to something? Google and TH-cam aren’t returning anything related to this. Thanks
... music annoying and distracting!
GUBBIMENT, NOT Japanese at fault for mark 14 CRAP torpedo,,,
Narrator, your voice raised inappropriately. Admiral Lockwood was not informed in advance of Atomic bombs. Few were. Armchair critics weren't there either..
;can you be a little more rude?
I agree that the missions weren’t pointless! Didn’t mean to come across that that’s what I think, was just quoting a counterpoint made by a couple historians (that I don’t agree with). Appreciate you watching Carole and have a great week :)
USA USA USA
I stopped the video when you were stating the opinion of someone in 2010 who doesn't even register in 1945. Having full knowledge of the end of the war is not something they had at the time. Extreme few even knew about the atomic bomb. It was ignorant to even doubt a person living it live at the time.
I agree that the missions weren’t pointless! Didn’t mean to come across that that’s what I think, was just quoting a counterpoint made by a couple historians (that I don’t agree with). Appreciate you watching and have a great week :)
He has stated in numerous responses to comments that he was sharing opinions that he disagrees with.
I agree with your point, however: Making judgements on the value of someone's actions based on information not known to the participant is usually an exercise in ego and about as stupid as judging the morals and ethics of people living in a different era by our own current standards.
History CAN benefit from the research of those who come after the event, however. Samuel Eliot Morisson wrote an excellent history of naval action in WW2. He was observing and writing at the time. He was incorrect in a number of details, particularly about the battle of Midway, however. These details were corrected MUCH later, when historians with access to Japanese translators were able to study the records of the Japanese navy and compare/contrast that information with what we "knew". My memory may fail me here, but I think the book "Shattered Sword", which was published in the 80's or 90's, was the result.
@@HiddenHistoryYT To be clear... I watch your videos because they are well put together. I stopped this one at that point because of my own beliefs. Nothing on you personally. Great work!
@@shufflerp3868 All good, I appreciate it!
This video could have been great if it weren't for your annoying and distracting "Criticalpast" watermark. It's not like you own the copyright to the video clips, so it is totally unnecessary. That earned you a thumbs down, and I won't be subscribing until you loose the watermark!
Bruh it’s not my watermark lol
Sorry, Frank. That's my watermark. I suffer from compulsive criticality and when I tried to remove it I became paralyzed.
@@gsenski 😂 I can’t believe these people think it’s my watermark like tf 😂
@@HiddenHistoryYT just one of the many torpedoes you'll have to dodge being a content creator, but your video was one of the best I've ever seen on this subject. Very well done.
@@gsenski Haha definitely true. I can handle criticisms but not people just being dumb! Appreciate your kind words though and have a great week :)
... annoying music!
what's up with the shouting and raising voice. It adds nothing to the narrative and makes listening antagonistic. Sounds like a childish tantrum.
the text is good, content interesting, but what you are doing to your voice is bad. It's like you're the awful tenor trying always to show off that you can shout a high C or compete with Tebaldi. You're putting stress on your voice/ vocal cords. Go listen to classic radio shows, narratives... and you'll hear how easy and sustained narrative can be. It comes from training, from vocal technique and proper breathing technique. A voice is an instrument, no different from flute or violin, piano and you can abuse it or learn good technique to maximize your natural abilities. You have a good voice, but the stress you put on it is bad. The content and text is good, but with you do to your voice is bad and can cause too much stress and fatigue. take proper theater or opera training. Hannity and Ingraham can do the total outrage machine, but there's never any stress on their voices. Never. It's just very controlled no stress voice technique -- melodrama. Go learn good voice technique. If nothing else in respect for your content.
Oooh nerve jangles
Btw, it's pronounced 'way-who', know your fish. (subs at the time were named for fish)
I want the MRK 1 mod 0 crystal ball all these Monday morning quarterbacks stare at. The mission is executed with the best Intel, intentions and greatest probability of success. The rear view mirror of history is not always the most accurate depiction of what just passed.
I agree! Thanks for watching and have a great weekend :)