24:00 With respect to summon spells, I feel like a good comparison is wish effects in MTG. Yes, it may be more efficient to use that deck slot/ spell slot for the right spell for this situation, but that's made up for the fact that it's an incredibly flexible option that can get you all these silver bullets in other scenarios.
Hi, I wanted to comment on the video without nitpicking or telling you what you should have done instead! It's really awesome to see people write down and chronicle the math, philosophy, and design ideas of PF2E. I think you bringing an MTG background into how you look at the system adds a lot of complexity and nuance that...really doesn't exist when people talk about ttrpgs. It tends to be a lot of white room nonsense that holds over from the 3.5 days. Your content is a nice change of pace from that!
Thanks, I'm really happy to hear that you are enjoying it! Not many people were making the sort of content I wanted to see, so I did it myself. Hopefully I, in turn, inspire some new people!
@@ThrabenU_Gaming It’s honestly an important revolution needed in the PF2e community. We had starters who do a great job covering material, hyping new options, and giving a casual view. We then got new creators that focused on topics that rose up, giving discussions about it, that was very logical, but still philosophical/anecdotal. We’re entering a new phase of “quantified roleplay” (such as new content from you and Mathfinder) to actually set in stone what’s truth and tradition. Much more gritty. CrunchMcDabbles was the first to “math-find” things, but he’s only one person and he can’t cover the multitude of topics while providing high quality videos. So, you’re absolutely a wonderful addition and the community has a lot to thank for it!
This video was incredibly insightful - I would very much enjoy seeing this analysis expanded to include the shield blocking that you briefly mentioned in the conclusion.
That's a great video, I really like the comparison of "percentage of a 75 HP character" some pretty useful data haha! I'd add the alchemical items as an option, specially after the remaster making the alchemical archetype better. For comparison, here's the data: Source: Elixir of Life (Lesser) LV 5 Dice: 3d6+6 Average: 16.5 % 75 HP: 0.22 Notes: variable action economy, from bad (Draw/Quick Alchemy, Stride and Activate is horrible, 3 actions), to decent (Draw/QA and Activate, give to ally before combat start is 2 actions from you or the ally) to good (already in hand, Activate or Command a Familiar: Item Delivery is 1 action) Source: Numbing Tonic (Lesser) LV 5 Dice: 5 Average: 5 % 75 HP: 0.06 Notes: same action issues as the Elixir of Life, but the big thing is that the TempHP renew each round for 1 minute, which adds more value the more rounds they're used, similar to the Champion's reaction. So, Alchemists and Alch Dedication can do a bit of healing and damage mitigation, but the action economy needs to be planned:something like Retrieval Prisms and later a Retrieval Belt. The feats Alchemical Familiar (LV 1 with abilities like Valet, Item Delivery or Lab Assistant) Enduring Alchemy (LV 4, break the actions needed between turns) or Combine Elixirs (LV 6, 2 elixirs in one vial) for the Alchemist also makes the action economy better.
It's funny that you mention that. My support heavy bard feels more at home in a boss fight than a regular fight with a bunch of low level monsters since I am so good at the debuff aspects! I built for "the tough ones!"
Nice Video False Vitality was new to me. Like Assurance for Battle Medicine and Robust Health really makes it useful to party if in campaign with several small fights per day.
Funny as it may be, setting a baseline is very important to any such analysis! Lots of DPR and DTRP analyses ignore the mention of total HP entirely, even though is incredibly valuable information. As long as your baseline isn’t a victim of the “Muhammad Wang Fallacy” (and I don’t think Phil’s baseline is a victim of that), it’s good to have some baseline even if it can’t account for variance.
I haven't watched ths video yet since I'm saving it for when I'm working but thank you in advance! I'm a champion with the medic dedication, this video will be huge!
Good video, small note on champion's reaction. If the enemy deals more than 1 damage type in that attack/situation it lowers their damage by 16 (or possibly more depending on damage types) making it more situationally strong
Loving the vids you've been putting out on my favorite TTRPG, thanks so much for the content, I think we need plenty more creators like yourself with thought out, quality videos. I'm not huge on being in front of the camera but I love spreadsheeting and theorycrafting, if you ever want to collab or are looking for back-support for a topic you want to cover I'd be happy to assist! Keep it up!
Great video! I love the mention of summoning spells as a “tanking” tool, it’s a really underestimated use of the spells. I also love how keeping the ratio of damage vs HP at this levels puts all the mitigation into context! Just one small area where my play experience seems to disagree with one of your predictions: I find that the Champion’s Reaction (and other similar Reaction options like Thaumaturge, Hidebound, etc) is best against a SINGLE enemy, not a group. In my experience the best thing against mobs of enemies is Action denial (like the Leprechaun Illusory Object you mentioned). This is primarily because when you face just one single enemy, your Reaction trades for a *huge* chunk of their Action economy, even if it’s reducing a very small amount of damage relative to that one Action. Even if the enemy’s damage would eventually outpace the Reactions, as long as you prevent an ally from dropping to 0 HP for even one additional turn, your single Reaction added 3-5 whole Actions for your party! Meanwhile it’s harder to guarantee this against multiple foes because when 5 lower level enemies swarm your party, a lot of damage goes through piecemeal, while AoE Action denial scales absurdly well in its place. I’m curious though, if your play experience with Champions and Thaums agrees with the prediction you’ve made, maybe it’s possible that my Champion players have just fallen on the unfavourable side of variance at some or the other point!
I like the way you have framed reactions. While my analysis was focused on keeping up with damage output, in terms of the IMPACT that it has on a fight, I agree with your observations. In particular, I think what you are saying lines up HEAVILY with the Champion reaction that can automatically Enfeeble an enemy. When I DM'd a small campaign this summer, that reaction was incredible in single enemy fights. At higher levels, reactions on single enemies are especially brutal if critical hits get involved and status effects are applied from weapon runes or weapon specialization.
@@ThrabenU_Gaming I plan to do Hidebound analysis for my next underrated spell, whenever that comes. If it’s alright with you I may use this video’s analysis of Reaction mitigation as a jumping off point!
Matters of one enemy vs multiple enemies always depend on how your ability interacts with the action economy. Let's look at the different Champion's Reactions as an example: A Paladin's reaction is great if it can oneshot a minion, but if it doesn't kill, it's better against a single enemy, because them needing to attack once more is more costly. A Redeemer's reaction ia absolutely amazing against a single target where it either completely denies a huge hit or gives them a hefty debuff, while against minions it may not be much better than the base reaction's damage reduction. A Liberator's reaction shines in a niche either way: Against a boss monster that +Grabs and swallows you, it might just be the biggest get-out-of-jail-free-card in the entire game. The free step is also huge if it allows you to leave the enemy's reach. Against minions, those are usually smaller concerns, but if you fight something like a pack of Witchwargs (formerly known as Winter Wolves), a single Step can screw over their Pack Attack and Avenging Bite at the same time.
Great stuff! I used these metrics and some perspective shifts (and a little daring to go against conventional wisdom) that helped me figure out how to play a Wilding Steward Witch as a tank-mage (durable/controller/defender). It’s still a prepared caster, so its tankiness lives and dies by its spell slots, but it was extremely enlightening, hilarious, and fun!
One point for the Champion's Damage Reduction from our run through AV - its provides damage reduction against each damage type - so if the enemy it hitting a victim with a mix of damage types, it suddenly becomes far more valuable, as you apply the resistance twice or more to the single blow....
Thank you for the video. As a thaum wrestler with weapon and tome implement constantly yellow lining my health being up front demoralizing/combat grabbing, and suplexing or whirling throwing lol. I made an alt thaum with chalice and amulet and paired link with dedicating into kineticist for timber sentinel and hardwood armor and again into life oracle for life link since we got a medic. That said, I did take godless healing. I would like to promote godless healing as a feat. It does not turn off if healed by divine as was mentioned. That is only mortal healing which deals with treat wounds. Taking godless healing is very good even if not medic as it assists in setting battle medicine recharge on you to once an hour and gives a slight bump in treat wounds and battle medicine can help. Robust healing does a similiar recharge reduction on battle medicine and by 5th gives more bonus healing but also is a general feat. It's a fun add in my above setup as battle medicine on self when chalice and timber sentinel and amulet instensify or raising shield isn't enough to deal with lifelink damage or just paired link chalice others who are out of reach of battle medicine. Very interesting take on summons. I havent considered it.
Summons are so crazy. I was my favorite is the esipil, a daemon that can cast fear... AT WILL. Infinite Fear. The DC is a low 15, but with frightened 1 on a success it remained relevant well into level 5 and 6. Sure it got evapourated by a light breeze, but the enemy really had to make that breeze happen asap.
If you enjoy TTPGS like D&D, I HIGHLY recommend checking it out. The Beginner Box is a sick product that you teacher you everything about the game, and beyond that, all the rules and resources for the game are online and free via The Archives of Nethys!
One other issue i was thinking about was heal specific. Many enemies have aoes which will affect the decision between 2 action heal vs aoe heal which significantly change the equation.
Hi, I don't know of and can't find any references of the robust health feat you mention giving a +6 to battle medicine. Anyone has more information about that? Thanks in advance! Edit : At 31:00 you argue that the champion's reaction and similar things that do low amount of healing/mitigation thrive vs lower level creature, while comparing the damage from one low-level creature to the damage from one on-level creature. But I think that's misleading! Encounter budget-wise, you'd face 3 times as many lvl-3 creatures as on-level creatures or 5 times as many as lvl+2 creatures! So in the span of a round, you'll get pounded by a lot more strikes! Granted, more of these attacks will miss because of the accuracy difference, but still, comparing 1 strike to 1 is bound to be wrong. Also, comparing the mitigation from champion's reaction to one strike sure shows that it's better in the case of a weaker strike (mitigates a higher proportion of the strike's damage), but you only get one champion reaction a turn, regardless of the number of strikes your enemies dish out. So you'll be able to mitigate damage from one of them and the others will go through. 2nd edit: medic dedication gives +5 on expert battle medicine, +10 on master, +15 on legendary, not +5 on trained and +10 on expert like written in your table :)
Robust healing is a new general feat in PC2. Very similar to godless healing mechanically but without requiring you to build into the laws of mortality.
Hello, nice video. quick note: no touch on HP efficiency here (50hp/ac 28 is better than 100hp ac 20 for ex) eidolon by raw can not use battle medicine since they can use only item with eidolon trait.(unless primal/healing plaster with magical misfit) nothing about calm emotion? isnt it one of the best low level tanking spell?
If we want to argue RAW, I would argue that the level 0 Healer's Toolkit is not a MAGIC item. It's a pile of bandages. I could not in good faith as a GM tell a player that their Eidolon with the Skilled Partner feat cannot Treat Wounds or use Battle Medicine. The Summoner guides that I have read agree with my interpretation, and I think any reasonable DM would as well.
@@ThrabenU_Gaming I think every table should do what they think is best. I would accept my summoner player to do it and even accept Eidolon to take sustain a spell activity for the summoner spell, or paladin reaction. But thats not what in the book, and i am not a tv show writter. Because your last video was about pathfinder society, where you sit with an unkonw GM as well, i thought it might be a good point to remember the RAW statement, to prevent disapointement. Other ppl would think my interpretation is not "reasonable gm thinking", they might be right, but its not up to tem to decide what i accept and dont in my game, neither me to decide in their game as well. Its just for me a "talk with your GM at character creation" kind of thing. (sorry i wasnt clear about my intention in my previous comment)
Your battle medicine is incorrect on amount healed. A success is 2d8 whereas a crit success is 4d8. From there bonus hp is added based on proficiency and other feat/archetype features.
I do not agree at using summons as a viable tanks. If the enemy isn't mindless it has absolutely no reason to target summons over the PCs. Summons have lot hit chance than PCs and require sustain to act. And Zombie Brute is slowed 1, it means for one activation it uses only one action. Sure, summons have some utily ( different types of damage, variety of spells, act as scouts, etc.) but not as the hp bags.
Enemies have LOTS of reasons to attack summons. You are often summoning creatures that impose status effects (even on a success save in many cases) or otherwise cast great utility spells (e.g. a Unicorn with multiple Heal spells). I think you're underestimating the utility that these spells offer and how much enemies might want to stop them.
@@ThrabenU_Gaming That makes sense although I am not sure who has 60 HP, Maybe an Orc Wizard? Overall though I still think it is the wrong number to pick since I do not believe any character can actually have that many HP at level 6. Anyway it is a small nit-pick and your video certainly gives some food for though on the best use of resources in combat.
You didn't account for Gnome Fortuitous Shift. Beastmaster companions are similar to a barbarian draining resources (actions when they are at low HP and need extraction, more 10-minute wait times after combat). Companions need tons of investment throughout your career.
There aren't damage or healing numbers attached to *Unexpected Shift,* hence I didn't cover it. Plus, if I tried to cover EVERY option, this would spiral out of control very quickly and become unwieldy.
You should have covered proactive healing vs. post-damage healing. Proactive healing are things like Shadow Siphon and "a good defense is a good offense" because fewer monster actions = fewer attacks that need to be healed. Post-damage healing are things like Heal and Treat Wounds. The game seems designed to make it cheap to heal out of combat and mostly assumes you are at full when initiative is rolled. HP thus becomes more of a stamina bar showing how long before you need to tap out of a given combat. Healing in combat is thus simply an emergency strategy, not intended to keep people topped up like an MMORPG healer would, but more like a fallback in case someone gets unlucky a few too many times. If that is it's primary use case then range, its extraction ability and fewer actions are what are most important. Life Shot enables the ranged martial to do very well here. Dimensional Knot makes Arcane and Occult casters some of the best responders to "MEDIC!!!" in the game.
Other creators (e.g. Swingripper) have recently covered different types of healing, so I didn't go into differences between in and out of combat healing here. My focus was on in-combat number comparison here.
24:00 With respect to summon spells, I feel like a good comparison is wish effects in MTG. Yes, it may be more efficient to use that deck slot/ spell slot for the right spell for this situation, but that's made up for the fact that it's an incredibly flexible option that can get you all these silver bullets in other scenarios.
Yo, I love that comparison!
Hi, I wanted to comment on the video without nitpicking or telling you what you should have done instead!
It's really awesome to see people write down and chronicle the math, philosophy, and design ideas of PF2E. I think you bringing an MTG background into how you look at the system adds a lot of complexity and nuance that...really doesn't exist when people talk about ttrpgs. It tends to be a lot of white room nonsense that holds over from the 3.5 days. Your content is a nice change of pace from that!
Thanks, I'm really happy to hear that you are enjoying it! Not many people were making the sort of content I wanted to see, so I did it myself. Hopefully I, in turn, inspire some new people!
@@ThrabenU_Gaming It’s honestly an important revolution needed in the PF2e community.
We had starters who do a great job covering material, hyping new options, and giving a casual view.
We then got new creators that focused on topics that rose up, giving discussions about it, that was very logical, but still philosophical/anecdotal.
We’re entering a new phase of “quantified roleplay” (such as new content from you and Mathfinder) to actually set in stone what’s truth and tradition. Much more gritty.
CrunchMcDabbles was the first to “math-find” things, but he’s only one person and he can’t cover the multitude of topics while providing high quality videos.
So, you’re absolutely a wonderful addition and the community has a lot to thank for it!
@@toodleselnoodos6738 Thanks for mentioning Mathfinder, I hadn't found him yet.
This video was incredibly insightful - I would very much enjoy seeing this analysis expanded to include the shield blocking that you briefly mentioned in the conclusion.
Yeah, I realized that I forgot out shields when I was recording the conclusion, and I wasn't about to go back XD
@@ThrabenU_Gaming lol - completely understandable!
That's a great video, I really like the comparison of "percentage of a 75 HP character" some pretty useful data haha! I'd add the alchemical items as an option, specially after the remaster making the alchemical archetype better. For comparison, here's the data:
Source: Elixir of Life (Lesser) LV 5
Dice: 3d6+6
Average: 16.5
% 75 HP: 0.22
Notes: variable action economy, from bad (Draw/Quick Alchemy, Stride and Activate is horrible, 3 actions), to decent (Draw/QA and Activate, give to ally before combat start is 2 actions from you or the ally) to good (already in hand, Activate or Command a Familiar: Item Delivery is 1 action)
Source: Numbing Tonic (Lesser) LV 5
Dice: 5
Average: 5
% 75 HP: 0.06
Notes: same action issues as the Elixir of Life, but the big thing is that the TempHP renew each round for 1 minute, which adds more value the more rounds they're used, similar to the Champion's reaction.
So, Alchemists and Alch Dedication can do a bit of healing and damage mitigation, but the action economy needs to be planned:something like Retrieval Prisms and later a Retrieval Belt. The feats Alchemical Familiar (LV 1 with abilities like Valet, Item Delivery or Lab Assistant) Enduring Alchemy (LV 4, break the actions needed between turns) or Combine Elixirs (LV 6, 2 elixirs in one vial) for the Alchemist also makes the action economy better.
Oh, yeah, that's a great thing to add if I update this again at some point.
Exceptional Video.
With higher level 'boss' monsters, it really emphasizes the importance of debuffs from casters, grapplers, demoralizers.
It's funny that you mention that. My support heavy bard feels more at home in a boss fight than a regular fight with a bunch of low level monsters since I am so good at the debuff aspects! I built for "the tough ones!"
Nice Video False Vitality was new to me. Like Assurance for Battle Medicine and Robust Health really makes it useful to party if in campaign with several small fights per day.
This is the nerdy PF2 discussion I’m looking for!
"im assuming 75 HP"
Ahh yes, the spherical Adventurer
Funny as it may be, setting a baseline is very important to any such analysis! Lots of DPR and DTRP analyses ignore the mention of total HP entirely, even though is incredibly valuable information.
As long as your baseline isn’t a victim of the “Muhammad Wang Fallacy” (and I don’t think Phil’s baseline is a victim of that), it’s good to have some baseline even if it can’t account for variance.
I haven't watched ths video yet since I'm saving it for when I'm working but thank you in advance!
I'm a champion with the medic dedication, this video will be huge!
Good video, small note on champion's reaction. If the enemy deals more than 1 damage type in that attack/situation it lowers their damage by 16 (or possibly more depending on damage types) making it more situationally strong
This was super insightful! Great video all around.
Loving the vids you've been putting out on my favorite TTRPG, thanks so much for the content, I think we need plenty more creators like yourself with thought out, quality videos. I'm not huge on being in front of the camera but I love spreadsheeting and theorycrafting, if you ever want to collab or are looking for back-support for a topic you want to cover I'd be happy to assist! Keep it up!
Thanks for the support!
After this excellent video, I'm looking forward to the Shield video! 🛡️
I need to get back to that idea, but I think I'm more excited about the Animist as of now.
Great video! I love the mention of summoning spells as a “tanking” tool, it’s a really underestimated use of the spells. I also love how keeping the ratio of damage vs HP at this levels puts all the mitigation into context!
Just one small area where my play experience seems to disagree with one of your predictions: I find that the Champion’s Reaction (and other similar Reaction options like Thaumaturge, Hidebound, etc) is best against a SINGLE enemy, not a group. In my experience the best thing against mobs of enemies is Action denial (like the Leprechaun Illusory Object you mentioned).
This is primarily because when you face just one single enemy, your Reaction trades for a *huge* chunk of their Action economy, even if it’s reducing a very small amount of damage relative to that one Action. Even if the enemy’s damage would eventually outpace the Reactions, as long as you prevent an ally from dropping to 0 HP for even one additional turn, your single Reaction added 3-5 whole Actions for your party! Meanwhile it’s harder to guarantee this against multiple foes because when 5 lower level enemies swarm your party, a lot of damage goes through piecemeal, while AoE Action denial scales absurdly well in its place.
I’m curious though, if your play experience with Champions and Thaums agrees with the prediction you’ve made, maybe it’s possible that my Champion players have just fallen on the unfavourable side of variance at some or the other point!
I like the way you have framed reactions. While my analysis was focused on keeping up with damage output, in terms of the IMPACT that it has on a fight, I agree with your observations. In particular, I think what you are saying lines up HEAVILY with the Champion reaction that can automatically Enfeeble an enemy. When I DM'd a small campaign this summer, that reaction was incredible in single enemy fights. At higher levels, reactions on single enemies are especially brutal if critical hits get involved and status effects are applied from weapon runes or weapon specialization.
@@ThrabenU_Gaming I plan to do Hidebound analysis for my next underrated spell, whenever that comes. If it’s alright with you I may use this video’s analysis of Reaction mitigation as a jumping off point!
Matters of one enemy vs multiple enemies always depend on how your ability interacts with the action economy. Let's look at the different Champion's Reactions as an example:
A Paladin's reaction is great if it can oneshot a minion, but if it doesn't kill, it's better against a single enemy, because them needing to attack once more is more costly.
A Redeemer's reaction ia absolutely amazing against a single target where it either completely denies a huge hit or gives them a hefty debuff, while against minions it may not be much better than the base reaction's damage reduction.
A Liberator's reaction shines in a niche either way: Against a boss monster that +Grabs and swallows you, it might just be the biggest get-out-of-jail-free-card in the entire game. The free step is also huge if it allows you to leave the enemy's reach. Against minions, those are usually smaller concerns, but if you fight something like a pack of Witchwargs (formerly known as Winter Wolves), a single Step can screw over their Pack Attack and Avenging Bite at the same time.
Great stuff!
I used these metrics and some perspective shifts (and a little daring to go against conventional wisdom) that helped me figure out how to play a Wilding Steward Witch as a tank-mage (durable/controller/defender).
It’s still a prepared caster, so its tankiness lives and dies by its spell slots, but it was extremely enlightening, hilarious, and fun!
One point for the Champion's Damage Reduction from our run through AV - its provides damage reduction against each damage type - so if the enemy it hitting a victim with a mix of damage types, it suddenly becomes far more valuable, as you apply the resistance twice or more to the single blow....
Oh yeah, it's great when it stacks up that way!
Excellent breakdown, thank you
as a newbie, loving your channel. keep it up!
Thanks for the kind words!
Yes= yes, no=yes. This video is for you bit made me laugh
You've got to inject a little bit of humor from time to time!
Haha yeah that's what great
Thank you for the video. As a thaum wrestler with weapon and tome implement constantly yellow lining my health being up front demoralizing/combat grabbing, and suplexing or whirling throwing lol. I made an alt thaum with chalice and amulet and paired link with dedicating into kineticist for timber sentinel and hardwood armor and again into life oracle for life link since we got a medic.
That said, I did take godless healing. I would like to promote godless healing as a feat. It does not turn off if healed by divine as was mentioned. That is only mortal healing which deals with treat wounds. Taking godless healing is very good even if not medic as it assists in setting battle medicine recharge on you to once an hour and gives a slight bump in treat wounds and battle medicine can help. Robust healing does a similiar recharge reduction on battle medicine and by 5th gives more bonus healing but also is a general feat.
It's a fun add in my above setup as battle medicine on self when chalice and timber sentinel and amulet instensify or raising shield isn't enough to deal with lifelink damage or just paired link chalice others who are out of reach of battle medicine.
Very interesting take on summons. I havent considered it.
Summons are so crazy. I was my favorite is the esipil, a daemon that can cast fear... AT WILL. Infinite Fear. The DC is a low 15, but with frightened 1 on a success it remained relevant well into level 5 and 6. Sure it got evapourated by a light breeze, but the enemy really had to make that breeze happen asap.
Oh, that's a good one!
I had no idea my favorite MTG creator had another channel. Do I need to get into Pathfinder?
If you enjoy TTPGS like D&D, I HIGHLY recommend checking it out. The Beginner Box is a sick product that you teacher you everything about the game, and beyond that, all the rules and resources for the game are online and free via The Archives of Nethys!
I appreciate it. ❤
One other issue i was thinking about was heal specific. Many enemies have aoes which will affect the decision between 2 action heal vs aoe heal which significantly change the equation.
Now do a video specifically about Battle Medicine. (grabby hands)
Hi, I don't know of and can't find any references of the robust health feat you mention giving a +6 to battle medicine. Anyone has more information about that? Thanks in advance!
Edit : At 31:00 you argue that the champion's reaction and similar things that do low amount of healing/mitigation thrive vs lower level creature, while comparing the damage from one low-level creature to the damage from one on-level creature. But I think that's misleading! Encounter budget-wise, you'd face 3 times as many lvl-3 creatures as on-level creatures or 5 times as many as lvl+2 creatures!
So in the span of a round, you'll get pounded by a lot more strikes! Granted, more of these attacks will miss because of the accuracy difference, but still, comparing 1 strike to 1 is bound to be wrong. Also, comparing the mitigation from champion's reaction to one strike sure shows that it's better in the case of a weaker strike (mitigates a higher proportion of the strike's damage), but you only get one champion reaction a turn, regardless of the number of strikes your enemies dish out. So you'll be able to mitigate damage from one of them and the others will go through.
2nd edit: medic dedication gives +5 on expert battle medicine, +10 on master, +15 on legendary, not +5 on trained and +10 on expert like written in your table :)
Robust healing is a new general feat in PC2. Very similar to godless healing mechanically but without requiring you to build into the laws of mortality.
Whoops, good catch on the Battle Medicine!
Hello, nice video.
quick note: no touch on HP efficiency here (50hp/ac 28 is better than 100hp ac 20 for ex)
eidolon by raw can not use battle medicine since they can use only item with eidolon trait.(unless primal/healing plaster with magical misfit)
nothing about calm emotion? isnt it one of the best low level tanking spell?
If we want to argue RAW, I would argue that the level 0 Healer's Toolkit is not a MAGIC item. It's a pile of bandages. I could not in good faith as a GM tell a player that their Eidolon with the Skilled Partner feat cannot Treat Wounds or use Battle Medicine. The Summoner guides that I have read agree with my interpretation, and I think any reasonable DM would as well.
@@ThrabenU_Gaming I think every table should do what they think is best. I would accept my summoner player to do it and even accept Eidolon to take sustain a spell activity for the summoner spell, or paladin reaction.
But thats not what in the book, and i am not a tv show writter.
Because your last video was about pathfinder society, where you sit with an unkonw GM as well, i thought it might be a good point to remember the RAW statement, to prevent disapointement.
Other ppl would think my interpretation is not "reasonable gm thinking", they might be right, but its not up to tem to decide what i accept and dont in my game, neither me to decide in their game as well.
Its just for me a "talk with your GM at character creation" kind of thing. (sorry i wasnt clear about my intention in my previous comment)
Your battle medicine is incorrect on amount healed. A success is 2d8 whereas a crit success is 4d8. From there bonus hp is added based on proficiency and other feat/archetype features.
I do not agree at using summons as a viable tanks. If the enemy isn't mindless it has absolutely no reason to target summons over the PCs. Summons have lot hit chance than PCs and require sustain to act. And Zombie Brute is slowed 1, it means for one activation it uses only one action. Sure, summons have some utily ( different types of damage, variety of spells, act as scouts, etc.) but not as the hp bags.
Enemies have LOTS of reasons to attack summons. You are often summoning creatures that impose status effects (even on a success save in many cases) or otherwise cast great utility spells (e.g. a Unicorn with multiple Heal spells). I think you're underestimating the utility that these spells offer and how much enemies might want to stop them.
@ThrabenU_Gaming Then why not just attack the spellcaster who summoned them?
I enjoyed the video but why 75 Hit Points?
Half the classes have 8 HP per level. A level 6 Human with Toughness and +2 Con would have 74 Hit Points.
I picked a reasonable number between a low hp total (~60) and a high one (~90). 75 is the average of those two numbers.
@@ThrabenU_Gaming That makes sense although I am not sure who has 60 HP, Maybe an Orc Wizard?
Overall though I still think it is the wrong number to pick since I do not believe any character can actually have that many HP at level 6.
Anyway it is a small nit-pick and your video certainly gives some food for though on the best use of resources in combat.
You didn't account for Gnome Fortuitous Shift. Beastmaster companions are similar to a barbarian draining resources (actions when they are at low HP and need extraction, more 10-minute wait times after combat). Companions need tons of investment throughout your career.
There aren't damage or healing numbers attached to *Unexpected Shift,* hence I didn't cover it. Plus, if I tried to cover EVERY option, this would spiral out of control very quickly and become unwieldy.
You should have covered proactive healing vs. post-damage healing. Proactive healing are things like Shadow Siphon and "a good defense is a good offense" because fewer monster actions = fewer attacks that need to be healed. Post-damage healing are things like Heal and Treat Wounds. The game seems designed to make it cheap to heal out of combat and mostly assumes you are at full when initiative is rolled. HP thus becomes more of a stamina bar showing how long before you need to tap out of a given combat. Healing in combat is thus simply an emergency strategy, not intended to keep people topped up like an MMORPG healer would, but more like a fallback in case someone gets unlucky a few too many times. If that is it's primary use case then range, its extraction ability and fewer actions are what are most important. Life Shot enables the ranged martial to do very well here. Dimensional Knot makes Arcane and Occult casters some of the best responders to "MEDIC!!!" in the game.
Other creators (e.g. Swingripper) have recently covered different types of healing, so I didn't go into differences between in and out of combat healing here. My focus was on in-combat number comparison here.