Another great video Bill with excellent choices. While I admire both brands, if push came to shove, I’d have to choose Lange over Patek. Both brands finish their movements to a high standard, but IMHO, Lange takes it to another level. Thanks again Bill.
On both brands, Bruce, I'd probably wind the clock back before Patek used silicon hair-springs and Lange was taken over by Richemont. (Or just get something by Marco Lang!) Take care and be safe, Bill😷
While some Pateks are lovely, I must say the Lange watches are more consistently interesting and innovative. Their dials are some of the most beautiful in the world and the display backs are arguably even more so, simply unequaled. Lange takes more chances.
I honestly would love to have enough money to need to make a choice like this. Having said that, my Holy Grail watch is ANY A. Lange & Sohne. I find Patek Phillipe to be kinda boring-looking compared to Lange. That's not to say that I find Patek Phillipe to be boring-looking, far from it. I just find that they look boring when compared to Langes. TBH, I find that ALL watches look boring when compared to A. Lange & Sohne.
One thing that is not addressed at all here is availability. You can't compare these two houses at retail prices simply because it's almost impossible to find something like a Nautilus at an AD, you'd pretty much have to buy from the secondary market at a ridiculous markup. Not so with Lange. Not even close. Though the German company produces approximately 6x fewer watches than the Swiss watchmaker, unlike Patek, you can get a Lange with about as much ease as you used to get a Rolex about ten years ago. In fact, I just purchased a brand new Lange One from a Lange AD in Orange County. And while scarcity does push up demand, which is great for branding, more and more collectors like me are getting fed up with the holy trinity and are moving on to watches of comparable quality that are actually available to us minions who don't have eight-figure portfolios. I've owned both Patek and Lange watches. And in my opinion, it doesn't even make sense to try and compare the two. Like apples and oranges, they share the same basic quality--they are both luxury timepieces. It all boils down to personal preference, though I will say in my opinion, in terms of watchmaking and quality, A. Lange & Sohne is simply better. For instance, I was shocked when I spent more than $50,000 on my gorgeous PP 5205R-010 only to discover that it has no hacking feature! That said, in my opinion, the 5205R was worth every penny. In the final analysis, unless you're buying to flip, buy what you love not what you think will make a great investment.
Hi Bill, thank you for this video. It is a really good topic. To me, I think A. Lange and Sohne has a better finish than Patek Philippe. One of the TH-cam videos I watched is about the poor quality control in a PP Calatrava. He used a loupe to show us there are some scratches in the hour and minute hands. I have not seen any flaws in A. Lange watches. On the other hand, PP retains its value better than A. Lange. Do you agree? I would like to hear your thoughts. I have a lot of respect for you because you know so much about watches. Thank you and have a nice day.
Hi Eugene. In 2009, Patek Philippe decided to use silicon hairsprings, and so any Pateks after that date are ones I have no interest in nor intend to buy. (Pre-2009 Pateks are always high on my list.) I could care less about price-retention. You do not have value retention in a $$$ sale value. Good horology is high forever. A friend of mine, a watchmaker and former GPHG judge was very high on A. Lange ... but after they were bought by the Richmont Group (Compagnie Financière Richemont S.A.) they seemed to lose their edge in quality. Look to some of the independents like F.P. Journe, H. Moser et Cie, Grönefeld, Voutilainen, and virtually the whole Académie Horlogère des Créateurs Indépendants (AHCI) who make watches worth what PP & AL&S charge. Check out ... ahci.ch ... and see some really top watches. Take care, Bill (You wonder about "resale value" ... I paid $20k for my FPJ CS ... here's the lowest price one I could find on Chrono24 for one today- www.chrono24.com/fpjourne/fpjourne-chronometre-souverain-platinum-full-set-2019--2-extra-straps--id23093012.htm .)
Excellent as usuall Bill. For many years I always fancied a PP but what I liked is now only for those with a high net worth and on the secondary market are even higher and all appear to be basically unworn which to me is one of the things wrong with a lot of collectors or rather investors today. Many so called collectors are investors and not real collectors. Wrist watches are designed to be worn and should be. My grail is ALuS and while its new price is above my means on the secondary market it may be achievable someday and I still believe thats its a better watch than the equivalent PP. Regards as always and stay safe Paddy.
Hey Paddy, thanks man! Great point about "investors" rather than collectors. If I'm not planning on wearing a watch; I won't buy it. Currently wearing my FP Journe Chronomètre à Résonance and I accidentally bounced part of my iPhone off it ... I'd rather enjoy it and take a few chances with bumps than keep it locked in my watch case or in the bank vault. Not sure what the ALuS is? 🤔 Take care and be safe, Bill😷
@@watchartsci A Lange und Sohn ALuS. Just noticed yesterday a few more dents on my Daily wearer Seadweller with lug holes . Its in the Ocean every day just as it was designed for. Wear and enjoy is my motto.
have a 5227R, but that was before I got acquainted w/ Lange. If I were to choose again, I would choose Lange 1 moonphase in Pt 950. Sports model I prefer the Odyseus because of the big date and movement. Time Zone definitely the PP, the layout is much Cleaner. I am not into chrono, but bought the 1815 Chrono simply due to the aesthetics of the movement. 1815 and the Golden Ellipse? Definitely Saxonia.
Hey Wing Kin Tang! You're right ... the Saxonia was labeled 1815. This is the one I was looking at that's similar but very different too! www.alange-soehne.com/en/timepieces/1815/235032-pink-gold Between most Lange & Patek's, I'd choose an AHCI watchmaker-like Marco Lang or the Grönefeld brothers. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
This is my fav. Patek, and my fav. Lange is the 1815. But even removing the brand on both these watches, I'd pick the Lange 1. Note to point out: on the comparison between the Golden Ellipse, the other watch in comparison is the Saxonia. The 1815 models always uses Arabic numerals to represent the hour markers (and the ones post 2015...I believe in that year, are 38mm in size. Not counting the limited edition ones)
@@MusikPiratCH I have a Lang & Heyne and visited Rolf Lang in Dresden and probably have an affinity for the Lang sans the 'e', but you are right, LONG-AH does have an 'e' at the end. Thanks for catching that.
With some of the Patek watches I feel you are paying relatively more for the heritage and brand, than technical innovation in the watch. This is fair, but can be hard to accept.
I think you have a valid point Thaang... I had a Calatrava (pre-silicon) for several years, and it was a near-perfect timepiece. However, I don't like the fact that they've been using silicon hairsprings, which I think sullies their reputation and takes a bite out of their own heritage. Take care, Bill
Dear Artchie, thanks so lot for this comparison. I appreciate your conservative approach on subjects like hairspring material. I would like to give you the hint that you confused Lange Saxonia with the 1815 in the comparison with the Patek Elippse. Thanks again for your horological compassion.
You got me there Konrad... I was looking at both the Saxonia and 1815, and switched them. The Saxonia was the 15k 35mm watch. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
When I saw/heard about Lange, my view on Patek totally changed. With Patek, it wasn't hard to feel short-changed relative to Lange at almost every parallel line. Generally, there is a consensus among watch enthusiasts that the finishing on Patek, while well done, has differing levels depending on how expensive/complicated the watch is. With Lange, every watch gets the same level of finishing workmanship regardless of price; the only reason a watch is more expensive is because it has more complications. I think the only watch class where Patek has a clear edge over Lange is the high complications. For example, Patek Chrono/Perpetual Calendars are more cluttered dial-wise, but their power reserves last almost twice as long. Maybe an upgrade to the 36-hr Lange movements is coming soon. I hope they are; it will make their high complication product offerings even more attractive!
Hi Gilberto, in most of the comparisons, I can generally think of a watch by an AHCI independent that I'd rather have, but it's hard to deny that both have features that are attractive and others ... not so much. Neither seems to be particularly innovative at this point. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
I think you would love the Lange Saxonia Automatic in white gold and deep-blue dial Ref. 380.028. Case Measurements: Diameter: 38.5 mm; height: 7.8 mm.
To be honest, A Lange looks more interesting. Patek offers elegant pieces, but some of their lines look too boring. Also, at the AD, A Lange's salesperson is much easier to approach. They don't care about if you are rich or not. They simply want you to know their brand and let you try all the luxury pieces even when they know you won't buy them on spot. Went to a Patek store and all I was faced was snobbery.
The next time you go into the Patek store, you can mention that Daniel Roth said they have some cheap watches that everyone can afford. You never know where you're going to find snobbery ... I learned, however, if you have a good watch and wear it, you'll be treated far better. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci They should treat their customer equally not base on the watch they wear on that day though. You never know how deep pocket some dudes are and being that kind of attitude really turns people off.
@@lipinglin1994 Can't disagree that everyone should be treated equally, but they're not. I used to have a Roll-Royce, and I'd pull up in front of a fancy hotel, and tell the attendant to keep an eye on it for me while my wife and I did some shopping. We'd go shopping, and afterwards come back and tip the attendant $10 ... but parking in a lot would have cost us $20! Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci Indeed, the world isn't fair. I am just saying I don't like to be treated that way. Thus, I am not really going to buy Patek. It is just my philosophy in buying stuff after all. :) I have the money. I buy. I go.
@@lipinglin1994 Here's a way to use the snobbery against the snobs. If they're snobby in a Patek store, ask if they have F.P. Journes. If they say, "Never heard of it," smile and reply, "I'm not surprised. Good day." Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Right you are Saprik! D'oh! Here's the one I was thinking of ... www.alange-soehne.com/en/timepieces/1815/235032-pink-gold Thanks for your knowledge and sharp eye! Take care and be safe, Bill
I am oscillating between a gold Breguet marine, Jlc mariner dat , and Rolex full gold president daydate and Glashutte Original perpetual! 15, 12, 30 ,20k. Help me?
@@aleximd9244 Like a good balance wheel, wisecollectors always oscillate! I'd feel silly with a gold President (it would be like the watch was wearing me rather than the opposite.) For Breguet, I like the Tradition line, and GO the Pano line ... but the Perpetual sounds interesting. Check out H. Moser et Cie ... better than any of those I believe...
I Don't own a Patek yet But I do own a ALS and GO. GO is a wonderful watch for the money. PP and ALS, hmm... hard to choose. Both are top tier brands with great pedigree. An extra point goes toward ALS, being revive only 25+ years ago and becoming the toughest competitor to PP.
Me personally I do not , however I have considered it to be a quintessential part of mechanical new age watches, I'm am not a fan o any silicone movements in any luxury watch I often search for automatic watches instead of mechanical watches. I heard Breguet watches are quality I cannot speak on the hairsprings quality against A.Lange. what's the difference between the two?
Like anything else in life choices: watch movements is another biggy. 1- Silicon, silicon are the hairsprings made with an alloy of it or are they like silicon which you find in rubber-like material? 2-My Omega watch distributor has his display case divided in two. First part are made with silicon, ceramics and what not(super high-tech material) based. His second part are what he calls (Bréguet) conventional material based movement & cases. Each person will have a favorite 😍, what are yours & why? N.B. When I was young I remember a Mission Impossible episode which a person was trying to identify a country Origin, and an expert pointed out that it was made in Germany(specifying quality made). The dispositions of dials & complications of Lange are perfect to my eye, which others don’t have 😢 Best regards, John
John, I've got enough silicon in my iPhone and computers to float a boat ... I just don't want it in my watches. I'd pick both older Patek's (prior to silicon hairsprings) and Lange's (before Richemont bought them). Take care and be safe, Bill😷
In general, I prefer Lange, though it’s hard to go wrong with a Patek. I’d happily watch a whole video of you discussing hairsprings, or hairsprings and balance wheels. I agree that a silicon hairspring could be the start of a slippery slope situation, but it warrants further analysis and discussion. I’m intrigued by the GS SD technology. I consider it simply another type of movement, so I avoid the arguments over quartz vs mechanical. To me it’s just spring drive, off on it’s own and a very interesting technology. The perfect sweep seconds hand does have some allure for me. And it seems GS puts many of their finest dials on SD watches.
Hi Ced, our's is a peculiar hobby. We obsess over accuracy, while our mobile phones are connected to an atomic clock inside of a Swiss mountainside accurate to a nanosecond. That mobile/smart phone will out-perform even the best efforts in mechanical horology. So the challenge is to do the most interesting and innovative things we can with the metal mechanics. The future for us is the past; not hi-tech. Here's a video I did on double hairspring ... th-cam.com/video/YIoHYzTq0fM/w-d-xo.html. Take care and stay safe, Bill 😷
It just seems like the German brands in general try to offer more for the same money than the complacent Swiss; they're like the Avis of the watch industry. Hopefully, they'll rise above their "in theory" status where everyone talks about them but no one seems to actually buy them. Also thanks for also bringing up the GO Panoreserve.
An Avis on the autobahn ... versus one of slab-sided dinosaurs that used to be made in the US... before they realized there was competition! Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Thank you Bill. I think I would trust the competence/quality of either brand, and look more at what I found most pleasing in their design and overall aesthetic. I'd probably also drive past both stores and head straight to the good people at Vacheron Constantin.
Lange do Arabic numerals printing way better than PP , plus Lange is heavy hitter in chronograph technology in addition of Zeitwerk ; famous model from lange. patek should follow lange approach in innovation and stop charging high prices for just a name aka Patek !!!
I like them both, Nakamoto. Patek Philippe Gondolo models before 2009 when they started stuffing silicon in their watches. A. Lange & Söhne also make great watches, but keep an eye on Marcolangwatches.com ... Take care, Bill
@@satoshinakamoto7914 You have much to learn. He was the president of AHCI and is considered one of the greatest living watchmakers. Before talking ... you need to learn more.
@@satoshinakamoto7914 They're both independent watchmakers; both are AHCI members, and I have watches by both of them. Do not make statements about watches and watchmakers you know little or nothing about. People will think you have no honor!
Whoops! I believe you are correct Michele! I meant to use this 1815 image: www.alange-soehne.com/en/timepieces/1815 Thanks for your hawk-eyed spot-on distinction.Take care, Bill
Hi Shawn, the fact that you cannot adjust a silicon hairspring sends it to the wrong side of horology. A silicon escapement isn't quite so bad because it functions like one made of transitional metals. Still, though, like you I prefer all transitional metals. Take care, Bill
For me it'd be like choosing between a Hamburg Steinway or a Boesendorfer, would be ecstatic either way! (The ALS 1815 35mm with the small seconds you feature towards the end of the video is my grail for sure, though)
I would rather go with Grotrian. Its sound quality is far better than Hamburg Steinway and Bosendorfer. You should try it. New York Steinway doesn't sound good at all.
@@eugenejohnson7755 Grotrian is a fantastic maker for sure. If we're talking pre war Steinway, the New York is amazing (as well as pre war Mason & Hamlin). Modern New York Steinways by and large, I'm not terribly fond of.
Steinway (once upon a time, my dream piano) was bought by the Chinese and has suffered a huge decline in quality. Though Lange was purchased by the Richmond group, unlike Steinway (even the Hamburg Steinway), ALS still produces superbly crafted timepieces.
There are more vintage and used Pateks on the marker than AL. So from a used watch purchaser, like me, a Patek calatrava would be the option. Just being practical.
I like the GO PanoReserve Hand-wind --- I think it's a great value ... on bracelet for humid climate. I really like hand-wind watches, it kind of makes it your friend.
Hey JR! In the humidity ... I'd choose a diver! There's something about the PanoReserve that I find attractive over the other Pano models ... except maybe the Reverse. That's a cool GO! Take care and be safe, Bill😷
@@watchartsci I don't like the moon phase .. a useless complication in my opinion. PanoReserve and the Sports Evo models are my favorite GO watches. Cheers
Bill great review but you should spit it out and not sit on the garden fence on which one you prefer. So are you saying the Patek with the Silicon movements is a better technology because of the silicon qualities? Or are you saying both of these watches are overpriced for what they are?
Hey Bay Area guy! It's not that I'm on a fence so much as I know of other watches I'd choose over either of the ones shown. As for silicon ... I'm saying that lower price in production may have played a part in selecting it, and while silicon has excellent non-metallic qualities, I'm sort of old-school about liking to see metals (like the Parachrom® hairsprings used by Rolex [niobium + chromium] and Precision Engineering's Straumann Hairspring® [niobium + titanium]) I got all the silicon I need in my computers and iPhone.Take care and be safe, Bill😷
@@watchartsci I think you should give us your opinion on all your reviews and not feel bad to offend. I think people will listen to you and learn since you know a lot and I would want to know your likes and dislikes as well.
Hello, bill, I only paid attention to Lange recently. I was also a fan of Patek Philippe. I like chronographs such as 5370 and 5959 very much. But I noticed that the chronographs of Lange are also very beautiful. But I want to know more about the history of Lange movement. Do their Chronograph movements learn from other brands? After all, datograph was launched in five years from 1994 to 1999, which was very short. Does Patek Philippe's 29-535 movement learn from other brands? thank you
What I'd suggest is to look at the state-run watchmaking during the Pre-reunification period in Germany (Especially, East German(. There may have been significant work done on chronographs then or even pre-War. Let me know what you find. Take care, Bill
Bill, I'm 60 seconds into the clip and I have to say this - In my opinion you should not compare the Patek 5277J to a Lange 1, you should compare it to a A. Lange Saxonia. The rest of the clip is inevitably and unfortunately determined by this choice.
@@watchartsci I see your point Bill, no sweat :D If I ever do one and screw up, I will probably let you criticise ;) Take care Sir and please be safe.
For some, it's about the name, they'll choose Patek over Lange, because Patek are a 'more prestigeous name and are a part of the Holy Trinity and as such 'can't do any wrong'. For some, they'll choose Patek because they are Swiss, and somehow do not trust that German watchmaking is on the same level. Some will regard Lange as a phoenix brand, and because they were revived in 1990 that somehow invalidates their heritage. Whereas Patek's being in continuous business ever since their founding makes them preferable. I don't subscribe to any of the above views, but I see them mentioned. A more objective notion is the case design. Lange predominently use the barrel with welded lugs approach, which can be a little unforgiving on the wrist. Patek lean more towards blended lug designs with horizontal lines that make their watches seem thinner and sit on the wrist a little lower. Some also bring Bauhaus into the equation. But I think Lange designs are actually more classical; harking back to pre-Bauhaus pocket watch infuences. It's a different design language than Patek, for sure, with Patek being quite reserved and contemparory. Speaking for myself, they are both beautiful in both design and engineering. I look at my preferences on a watch by watch basis. Though I do find myself leaning in favor of ALS more often than not. That said, I have never tried any of these on the wrist and we all know that can change everything.
Well Bill, you may be in luck! A peruse of the ALS website shows the 1815 Ref 235.032 (small second, arabics) to be 38.5mm. Perfect?! Isn't that a Saxonia you've got there? I'm a big fan of the 1815 in most of its forms. Pateks tend to leave me a bit cold, bar their chronograph, 5172.
Hard choices Bill, I love Lange and their designs, but Patek has this allure that other brands can't reach. If I had to choose one from each that would be the Patek 5960 P and the Lange Datograph Up and Down
I don't quite understand the trepidation with Silicon, it is simply a component in the alloy of a spring. The use of silicon alloyed springs instead of classic steel is simply to address magnetism, and maybe to a lesser extent, shock. I understand that Silicon is not a metal, but in the end, you wind up with a spring. The advantage of a Silicon spring is inertness to magnetism, but the disadvantage is the it is more brittle. Perhaps it may not last as many cycles as a classic steel spring? For anyone interested, there is an article by Danny Milton from Oct 2020 in Hodinkee on a brief history of modern Rolex balance springs. It covers Parachrom with two main elemental components being niobium and zirconium, both of which are transitional metals, and article also covers Syloxi, Rolex equivalent of silicium, French term for silicon.
Jack, if you want want mechanical watches with silicon balance springs, knock yourself out. You can have the more accurate quartz watch (quartz is nothing but silicon & oxygen) or the even more accurate smart watch linked to an atomic clock for peak accuracy-and you know that these mini-computer watches are loaded with silicon. What 'trepidation?' In fact, I just don't understand why everyone doesn't have a smart watch if they embrace inflexible metalloids like silicon over flexible (and adjustable) transitional metals like niobium, titanium, and zirconium. I like the flexible ones like Harrison, Breguet and Huygens used. It's a choice; not a competition. Were it a competition, I'd get an Apple Smart Watch. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Sorry Bill. I hope i didn’t upset you. An analog watch with a silicon hair spring is no where near an apple watch to me, but maybe it is to you. And that’s ok. After all, this hobby is about what stirs your emotions. Take care.
Very good comparison. IMHO there is no "better" brand. Each has some great models. PP has famed thin Perpetuals, ALS fantastic Chronos. I am inclined to refuse silicone as well, but surely there are different qualities too. AHCI watches for sure are rarer and some are in another horology league.
Yes, I'm beginning to look at non-independents as watches-by-bean-counters, and independents (not counting the crowd-funded junk) as watchmaker who really care about the art and science of mechanical watchmaking. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
off topic ... but I think you should also make a review about the Zenith Chronomaster Sport. Probably the most discussed watch since quite some time. I love it and find it to be more than different enough .... than the overhyped Daytona. But some Rolex fan boys seems to disagree ... I own the daytona's but respect the Zenith even more and ordered it immediately ... would be interesting to hear your thoughts :-)
Thanks Nakamoto. You might find this interesting in thinking about PP and AL&S www.scmp.com/magazines/style/luxury/article/3186876/has-silicon-won-over-swiss-watchmakers-rolex-jaeger?fbclid=IwAR1pxScu4RiUszvejJ8qvuXrwVnVSayRUno3OiH9Ls7E5Bm4Yh31OVkSDpc. Take care, Bill
The GS Spring Drive is not a true quartz movement - it is a mechanical movement that is quartz regulated. There are no batteries or stepper motors, and this innovative design simply swaps out the balance wheel / escapement with smooth spinning rotor than is electro-mechanically braked to precise timing. Everything else is the same. Silicon is essentially a solid lubricant that is chemically etched, as apposed to a machined product. The silicon is more exacting and AMagnetic. The only drawback is SI cannot be repaired - it must be replaced. The ALS Timezone is just a dual time watch - I actually prefer their Saxonia Dual Time. The PP 5230 is one of the most beautiful watches in the world and is a true world timer. The chronograph comparison was not ideal - you should have used the PP 5170 or 5172, which also have horizontal clutch movements. The Nautilus chrono has a vertical clutch movement - CH 28. Keep up the cool videos.
Hey Southnc! All quartz watches have quartz regulators ... that's the 'quartz' part. The rest is supplying an electrical charge to the quartz. Nothing wrong with that; I just like the hairspring and balance wheel. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci Dear Bill : you know very well that A Lange is Superior than patek when it comes to finishing and dial details . look how simple and boring is 5277 dial compared to the dial of Lang 1 . However , I agree with you when it comes to money .
Holly Trinity Bill! No German Watches. Berlin watch maker that re-opened shop. No thank you. The Patek 5170 is one of the ultimate Chronos. Hand wind. Look into it. Nice video mate.
The A. Lange are beautiful watches. I’m still in that phase where the dial is probably the deciding factor. The PanoReserve Blue for me is a must watch, not only the dial is beautiful but it seems that it’s the best value right now in HH. Thanks again for another great video content.
Another great video Bill with excellent choices. While I admire both brands, if push came to shove, I’d have to choose Lange over Patek. Both brands finish their movements to a high standard, but IMHO, Lange takes it to another level. Thanks again Bill.
On both brands, Bruce, I'd probably wind the clock back before Patek used silicon hair-springs and Lange was taken over by Richemont. (Or just get something by Marco Lang!) Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Agree , this is a well known fact , Lange finishing is superior than patek . But, how about Vacheron Constantin finishing compared to Lange ?
I really can’t choose between these two giants, any time piece from them is master craftsmanship!
It's a choice between Great & Great, Javi ... no bad choices! Take care and be safe, Bill😷
I know I am quite randomly asking but do anyone know of a good website to stream newly released series online?
@Erick Levi lately I have been using Flixzone. Just search on google for it :)
@Brody Brayden yea, have been using Flixzone for months myself :)
@Brody Brayden thanks, I went there and it seems to work =) I appreciate it!
While some Pateks are lovely, I must say the Lange watches are more consistently interesting and innovative. Their dials are some of the most beautiful in the world and the display backs are arguably even more so, simply unequaled. Lange takes more chances.
Even more so, Lang & Heyne, I believe, Yacov. Take care, Bill
I honestly would love to have enough money to need to make a choice like this. Having said that, my Holy Grail watch is ANY A. Lange & Sohne. I find Patek Phillipe to be kinda boring-looking compared to Lange. That's not to say that I find Patek Phillipe to be boring-looking, far from it. I just find that they look boring when compared to Langes. TBH, I find that ALL watches look boring when compared to A. Lange & Sohne.
I know what you mean Avro! Well some people can, and they need choices too. I like A. Lange, but I like Lang & Heyne more! Take care, Bill
One thing that is not addressed at all here is availability. You can't compare these two houses at retail prices simply because it's almost impossible to find something like a Nautilus at an AD, you'd pretty much have to buy from the secondary market at a ridiculous markup. Not so with Lange. Not even close. Though the German company produces approximately 6x fewer watches than the Swiss watchmaker, unlike Patek, you can get a Lange with about as much ease as you used to get a Rolex about ten years ago. In fact, I just purchased a brand new Lange One from a Lange AD in Orange County. And while scarcity does push up demand, which is great for branding, more and more collectors like me are getting fed up with the holy trinity and are moving on to watches of comparable quality that are actually available to us minions who don't have eight-figure portfolios.
I've owned both Patek and Lange watches. And in my opinion, it doesn't even make sense to try and compare the two. Like apples and oranges, they share the same basic quality--they are both luxury timepieces. It all boils down to personal preference, though I will say in my opinion, in terms of watchmaking and quality, A. Lange & Sohne is simply better. For instance, I was shocked when I spent more than $50,000 on my gorgeous PP 5205R-010 only to discover that it has no hacking feature! That said, in my opinion, the 5205R was worth every penny. In the final analysis, unless you're buying to flip, buy what you love not what you think will make a great investment.
Hi Warren, of course we must preface ... "when available" or "if available." Take care, Bill
Hi Bill, thank you for this video. It is a really good topic. To me, I think A. Lange and Sohne has a better finish than Patek Philippe. One of the TH-cam videos I watched is about the poor quality control in a PP Calatrava. He used a loupe to show us there are some scratches in the hour and minute hands. I have not seen any flaws in A. Lange watches. On the other hand, PP retains its value better than A. Lange. Do you agree? I would like to hear your thoughts. I have a lot of respect for you because you know so much about watches. Thank you and have a nice day.
Hi Eugene. In 2009, Patek Philippe decided to use silicon hairsprings, and so any Pateks after that date are ones I have no interest in nor intend to buy. (Pre-2009 Pateks are always high on my list.) I could care less about price-retention. You do not have value retention in a $$$ sale value. Good horology is high forever. A friend of mine, a watchmaker and former GPHG judge was very high on A. Lange ... but after they were bought by the Richmont Group (Compagnie Financière Richemont S.A.) they seemed to lose their edge in quality. Look to some of the independents like F.P. Journe, H. Moser et Cie, Grönefeld, Voutilainen, and virtually the whole Académie Horlogère des Créateurs Indépendants (AHCI) who make watches worth what PP & AL&S charge. Check out ... ahci.ch ... and see some really top watches. Take care, Bill (You wonder about "resale value" ... I paid $20k for my FPJ CS ... here's the lowest price one I could find on Chrono24 for one today- www.chrono24.com/fpjourne/fpjourne-chronometre-souverain-platinum-full-set-2019--2-extra-straps--id23093012.htm .)
@@watchartsci Thank you for your advice 🙏🙏🙏
Excellent as usuall Bill. For many years I always fancied a PP but what I liked is now only for those with a high net worth and on the secondary market are even higher and all appear to be basically unworn which to me is one of the things wrong with a lot of collectors or rather investors today. Many so called collectors are investors and not real collectors. Wrist watches are designed to be worn and should be.
My grail is ALuS and while its new price is above my means on the secondary market it may be achievable someday and I still believe thats its a better watch than the equivalent PP.
Regards as always and stay safe Paddy.
Hey Paddy, thanks man! Great point about "investors" rather than collectors. If I'm not planning on wearing a watch; I won't buy it. Currently wearing my FP Journe Chronomètre à Résonance and I accidentally bounced part of my iPhone off it ... I'd rather enjoy it and take a few chances with bumps than keep it locked in my watch case or in the bank vault. Not sure what the ALuS is? 🤔 Take care and be safe, Bill😷
@@watchartsci A Lange und Sohn ALuS. Just noticed yesterday a few more dents on my Daily wearer Seadweller with lug holes . Its in the Ocean every day just as it was designed for. Wear and enjoy is my motto.
have a 5227R, but that was before I got acquainted w/ Lange. If I were to choose again, I would choose Lange 1 moonphase in Pt 950. Sports model I prefer the Odyseus because of the big date and movement. Time Zone definitely the PP, the layout is much Cleaner. I am not into chrono, but bought the 1815 Chrono simply due to the aesthetics of the movement. 1815 and the Golden Ellipse? Definitely Saxonia.
Hey Wing Kin Tang! You're right ... the Saxonia was labeled 1815. This is the one I was looking at that's similar but very different too! www.alange-soehne.com/en/timepieces/1815/235032-pink-gold Between most Lange & Patek's, I'd choose an AHCI watchmaker-like Marco Lang or the Grönefeld brothers. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Thats why I have both
That's one way to make up your mind, Sundar! Take care, Bill
This is my fav. Patek, and my fav. Lange is the 1815.
But even removing the brand on both these watches, I'd pick the Lange 1.
Note to point out: on the comparison between the Golden Ellipse, the other watch in comparison is the Saxonia.
The 1815 models always uses Arabic numerals to represent the hour markers (and the ones post 2015...I believe in that year, are 38mm in size. Not counting the limited edition ones)
Hi xx1j, I messed up on the 1815/Saxonia, and the Lang 1 is a great pick. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci Note that it says "Lange 1" (not "Lang 1")! You pronounced it right but in the title the "e" was missing!
@@MusikPiratCH I have a Lang & Heyne and visited Rolf Lang in Dresden and probably have an affinity for the Lang sans the 'e', but you are right, LONG-AH does have an 'e' at the end. Thanks for catching that.
With some of the Patek watches I feel you are paying relatively more for the heritage and brand, than technical innovation in the watch. This is fair, but can be hard to accept.
I think you have a valid point Thaang... I had a Calatrava (pre-silicon) for several years, and it was a near-perfect timepiece. However, I don't like the fact that they've been using silicon hairsprings, which I think sullies their reputation and takes a bite out of their own heritage. Take care, Bill
Dear Artchie, thanks so lot for this comparison. I appreciate your conservative approach on subjects like hairspring material. I would like to give you the hint that you confused Lange Saxonia with the 1815 in the comparison with the Patek Elippse. Thanks again for your horological compassion.
You got me there Konrad... I was looking at both the Saxonia and 1815, and switched them. The Saxonia was the 15k 35mm watch. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
When I saw/heard about Lange, my view on Patek totally changed. With Patek, it wasn't hard to feel short-changed relative to Lange at almost every parallel line.
Generally, there is a consensus among watch enthusiasts that the finishing on Patek, while well done, has differing levels depending on how expensive/complicated the watch is. With Lange, every watch gets the same level of finishing workmanship regardless of price; the only reason a watch is more expensive is because it has more complications.
I think the only watch class where Patek has a clear edge over Lange is the high complications. For example, Patek Chrono/Perpetual Calendars are more cluttered dial-wise, but their power reserves last almost twice as long. Maybe an upgrade to the 36-hr Lange movements is coming soon. I hope they are; it will make their high complication product offerings even more attractive!
Hi Gilberto, in most of the comparisons, I can generally think of a watch by an AHCI independent that I'd rather have, but it's hard to deny that both have features that are attractive and others ... not so much. Neither seems to be particularly innovative at this point. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Agree Lange finishing is superior .
Good luck even finding an Odysseus. They have some on Chrono for $76,000. Hands down I'd rather have an ALS when it comes to the similar model PP
Hi Steve, no Odysseus? I wonder why? Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci I'd love to have one. It's just finding one that's not more than double the price. That's how much in demand they are
I think you would love the Lange Saxonia Automatic in white gold and deep-blue dial Ref. 380.028. Case Measurements: Diameter: 38.5 mm; height: 7.8 mm.
I would indeed Alex! Take care and be safe, Bill😷
To be honest, A Lange looks more interesting. Patek offers elegant pieces, but some of their lines look too boring. Also, at the AD, A Lange's salesperson is much easier to approach. They don't care about if you are rich or not. They simply want you to know their brand and let you try all the luxury pieces even when they know you won't buy them on spot. Went to a Patek store and all I was faced was snobbery.
The next time you go into the Patek store, you can mention that Daniel Roth said they have some cheap watches that everyone can afford. You never know where you're going to find snobbery ... I learned, however, if you have a good watch and wear it, you'll be treated far better. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci They should treat their customer equally not base on the watch they wear on that day though. You never know how deep pocket some dudes are and being that kind of attitude really turns people off.
@@lipinglin1994 Can't disagree that everyone should be treated equally, but they're not. I used to have a Roll-Royce, and I'd pull up in front of a fancy hotel, and tell the attendant to keep an eye on it for me while my wife and I did some shopping. We'd go shopping, and afterwards come back and tip the attendant $10 ... but parking in a lot would have cost us $20! Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci Indeed, the world isn't fair. I am just saying I don't like to be treated that way. Thus, I am not really going to buy Patek. It is just my philosophy in buying stuff after all. :) I have the money. I buy. I go.
@@lipinglin1994 Here's a way to use the snobbery against the snobs. If they're snobby in a Patek store, ask if they have F.P. Journes. If they say, "Never heard of it," smile and reply, "I'm not surprised. Good day." Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
16:45 - Saxonia, not 1815
Right you are Saprik! D'oh! Here's the one I was thinking of ... www.alange-soehne.com/en/timepieces/1815/235032-pink-gold Thanks for your knowledge and sharp eye! Take care and be safe, Bill
I think in my humble position that it would be much more proper to compare Calatrava with Saxonia line???
Maybe that would be an option where more 'affordable' watches live Alex! Thanks for the idea. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
I am oscillating between a gold Breguet marine, Jlc mariner dat , and Rolex full gold president daydate and Glashutte Original perpetual! 15, 12, 30 ,20k. Help me?
@@aleximd9244 Like a good balance wheel, wisecollectors always oscillate! I'd feel silly with a gold President (it would be like the watch was wearing me rather than the opposite.) For Breguet, I like the Tradition line, and GO the Pano line ... but the Perpetual sounds interesting. Check out H. Moser et Cie ... better than any of those I believe...
Thank you from my heart. I am in the Caribbean now contract but when I get home I will send my collection to analyze. I don't have fp journe😪😪
I think Lange has more beautiful movements and finishing
Thanks for that point Watch Fan. AL&S have interesting engraving on the balace cock, and less so on Pateks. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Why did you talk about the 1815 but put on a picture of the Saxonia?
It was an error, Felix. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
So did you mean to talk about the 1815 or the saxonia?
@@felixfourcolor Saxonia... everything was correct about the Saxonia ... except the picture! Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
I Don't own a Patek yet But I do own a ALS and GO. GO is a wonderful watch for the money. PP and ALS, hmm... hard to choose. Both are top tier brands with great pedigree. An extra point goes toward ALS, being revive only 25+ years ago and becoming the toughest competitor to PP.
Hey Badger! It's good to have a mix and get what you want ... and not what you are told you must have... Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Breguet and A.Lange & Sohne apparently have hairsprings in the watches y'all.
Yes they do, but A. Lange & Söhne has hairsprings that are different than Breguet. Do you know the difference Nakamoto? Take care, Bill
Me personally I do not , however I have considered it to be a quintessential part of mechanical new age watches, I'm am not a fan o any silicone movements in any luxury watch I often search for automatic watches instead of mechanical watches. I heard Breguet watches are quality I cannot speak on the hairsprings quality against A.Lange. what's the difference between the two?
Like anything else in life choices: watch movements is another biggy.
1- Silicon, silicon are the hairsprings made with an alloy of it or are they like silicon which you find in rubber-like material?
2-My Omega watch distributor has his display case divided in two.
First part are made with silicon, ceramics and what not(super high-tech material) based.
His second part are what he calls (Bréguet) conventional material based movement & cases.
Each person will have a favorite 😍, what are yours & why?
N.B. When I was young I remember a Mission Impossible episode which a person was trying to identify a country Origin, and an expert pointed out that it was made in Germany(specifying quality made).
The dispositions of dials & complications of Lange are perfect to my eye, which others don’t have 😢
Best regards,
John
John, I've got enough silicon in my iPhone and computers to float a boat ... I just don't want it in my watches. I'd pick both older Patek's (prior to silicon hairsprings) and Lange's (before Richemont bought them). Take care and be safe, Bill😷
In general, I prefer Lange, though it’s hard to go wrong with a Patek. I’d happily watch a whole video of you discussing hairsprings, or hairsprings and balance wheels. I agree that a silicon hairspring could be the start of a slippery slope situation, but it warrants further analysis and discussion. I’m intrigued by the GS SD technology. I consider it simply another type of movement, so I avoid the arguments over quartz vs mechanical. To me it’s just spring drive, off on it’s own and a very interesting technology. The perfect sweep seconds hand does have some allure for me. And it seems GS puts many of their finest dials on SD watches.
Hi Ced, our's is a peculiar hobby. We obsess over accuracy, while our mobile phones are connected to an atomic clock inside of a Swiss mountainside accurate to a nanosecond. That mobile/smart phone will out-perform even the best efforts in mechanical horology. So the challenge is to do the most interesting and innovative things we can with the metal mechanics. The future for us is the past; not hi-tech. Here's a video I did on double hairspring ... th-cam.com/video/YIoHYzTq0fM/w-d-xo.html. Take care and stay safe, Bill 😷
It just seems like the German brands in general try to offer more for the same money than the complacent Swiss; they're like the Avis of the watch industry. Hopefully, they'll rise above their "in theory" status where everyone talks about them but no one seems to actually buy them. Also thanks for also bringing up the GO Panoreserve.
An Avis on the autobahn ... versus one of slab-sided dinosaurs that used to be made in the US... before they realized there was competition! Take care and be safe, Bill😷
The Lange 1815 is a classic Bill! Perfect dress watch.
Freddy, the Lang 1815 makes a statement of quality ... quietly ... as it should. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Thank you Bill. I think I would trust the competence/quality of either brand, and look more at what I found most pleasing in their design and overall aesthetic. I'd probably also drive past both stores and head straight to the good people at Vacheron Constantin.
If you're going after the Quai de I'Ile ... I'd be right with you! Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Lange do Arabic numerals printing way better than PP , plus Lange is heavy hitter in chronograph technology in addition of Zeitwerk ; famous model from lange. patek should follow lange approach in innovation and stop charging high prices for just a name aka Patek !!!
Well Mohamed, it looks like you're an AL&S fan! Good to know what you like. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
I was very confused about which one of these I should buy myself, then I woke up.
😂 They're the stuff that dreams are made of. Take care, Bill
i think the picture of 1815 is acturally a saxonia automatik
QA AQ .... you are right! Take care and be safe, Bill😷
I too like the Saxonia from Lange (at the end it’s the Saxonia instead of the 1815). Although the 1815 (not shown) is also stunning.
Yep, Derek, I mixed up the 1815 & Saxonia on that one... I just don't know about a 35mm Saxonia. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
@@watchartsci agreed...the 35mm Saxonia is too small (for me at least).
It's okay bill, a lot of people in the comments seem to like A.Lange & Sohne over the Patek Philippe model .
I like them both, Nakamoto. Patek Philippe Gondolo models before 2009 when they started stuffing silicon in their watches. A. Lange & Söhne also make great watches, but keep an eye on Marcolangwatches.com ... Take care, Bill
Marco Lang Is not precision or accurate Bill common man.
@@satoshinakamoto7914 You have much to learn. He was the president of AHCI and is considered one of the greatest living watchmakers. Before talking ... you need to learn more.
@@watchartsci Marco Lang might a be good independent watch maker he is not better than FP Journe.
@@satoshinakamoto7914 They're both independent watchmakers; both are AHCI members, and I have watches by both of them. Do not make statements about watches and watchmakers you know little or nothing about. People will think you have no honor!
17:09 I think that's a Saxonia
Whoops! I believe you are correct Michele! I meant to use this 1815 image: www.alange-soehne.com/en/timepieces/1815 Thanks for your hawk-eyed spot-on distinction.Take care, Bill
I have no idea what point you were trying to make and what your conclusion is. Seems just a rambling stream of thoughts
I always enjoy listening to your thoughts. Like you, I prefer the innards to be made with traditional materials. Cheers.
Hi Shawn, the fact that you cannot adjust a silicon hairspring sends it to the wrong side of horology. A silicon escapement isn't quite so bad because it functions like one made of transitional metals. Still, though, like you I prefer all transitional metals. Take care, Bill
I love Lange ,thanks Bill 🙏
Charlieboy, I bet Lange loves you too! Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Hey Bill, I just wanted to tell you that you are the least pretentious and most down to Earth guy in horology. Breath of fresh air!
Hey Jeff, thanks man! All of us need to have fun with our hobby! Take care and be safe, Bill😷
For me it'd be like choosing between a Hamburg Steinway or a Boesendorfer, would be ecstatic either way! (The ALS 1815 35mm with the small seconds you feature towards the end of the video is my grail for sure, though)
Hi Koji, on the last one, I may have used a Saxonia instead of an 1815, but that's the 35mm one with the small seconds. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
I would rather go with Grotrian. Its sound quality is far better than Hamburg Steinway and Bosendorfer. You should try it. New York Steinway doesn't sound good at all.
@@eugenejohnson7755 Grotrian is a fantastic maker for sure. If we're talking pre war Steinway, the New York is amazing (as well as pre war Mason & Hamlin). Modern New York Steinways by and large, I'm not terribly fond of.
Steinway (once upon a time, my dream piano) was bought by the Chinese and has suffered a huge decline in quality. Though Lange was purchased by the Richmond group, unlike Steinway (even the Hamburg Steinway), ALS still produces superbly crafted timepieces.
A. Lange vote for me (barely!)
Hey Matt, you're more of an AHCI guy is my guess! Take care and be safe, Bill😷
There are more vintage and used Pateks on the marker than AL. So from a used watch purchaser, like me, a Patek calatrava would be the option. Just being practical.
Hey Benny, I have a great Calatrava from 1968 ... looks and runs perfectly. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Lange
Lange
Lange
:)
Hi MM ... let me guess, you like A. Lange, no? Take care, Bill
I like the GO PanoReserve Hand-wind --- I think it's a great value ... on bracelet for humid climate. I really like hand-wind watches, it kind of makes it your friend.
Hey JR! In the humidity ... I'd choose a diver! There's something about the PanoReserve that I find attractive over the other Pano models ... except maybe the Reverse. That's a cool GO! Take care and be safe, Bill😷
@@watchartsci I don't like the moon phase .. a useless complication in my opinion. PanoReserve and the Sports Evo models are my favorite GO watches. Cheers
It's 5227J Bill, not 5277. Cheers.
Thanks Dark Dodo ... my bad. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Bill great review but you should spit it out and not sit on the garden fence on which one you prefer. So are you saying the Patek with the Silicon movements is a better technology because of the silicon qualities? Or are you saying both of these watches are overpriced for what they are?
Hey Bay Area guy! It's not that I'm on a fence so much as I know of other watches I'd choose over either of the ones shown. As for silicon ... I'm saying that lower price in production may have played a part in selecting it, and while silicon has excellent non-metallic qualities, I'm sort of old-school about liking to see metals (like the Parachrom® hairsprings used by Rolex [niobium + chromium] and Precision Engineering's Straumann Hairspring® [niobium + titanium]) I got all the silicon I need in my computers and iPhone.Take care and be safe, Bill😷
@@watchartsci I think you should give us your opinion on all your reviews and not feel bad to offend. I think people will listen to you and learn since you know a lot and I would want to know your likes and dislikes as well.
@@greaterbayareahero1401 Ok. I want one of the AHCI members' watches.... howszat? Take care and be safe, Bill😷
@@watchartsci Bill, you are the man!!
Hello, bill, I only paid attention to Lange recently. I was also a fan of Patek Philippe. I like chronographs such as 5370 and 5959 very much. But I noticed that the chronographs of Lange are also very beautiful. But I want to know more about the history of Lange movement. Do their Chronograph movements learn from other brands? After all, datograph was launched in five years from 1994 to 1999, which was very short. Does Patek Philippe's 29-535 movement learn from other brands? thank you
What I'd suggest is to look at the state-run watchmaking during the Pre-reunification period in Germany (Especially, East German(. There may have been significant work done on chronographs then or even pre-War. Let me know what you find. Take care, Bill
Bill, I'm 60 seconds into the clip and I have to say this - In my opinion you should not compare the Patek 5277J to a Lange 1, you should compare it to a A. Lange Saxonia. The rest of the clip is inevitably and unfortunately determined by this choice.
Pawel, have you considered making such a video? I'd like to see it. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
@@watchartsci I see your point Bill, no sweat :D If I ever do one and screw up, I will probably let you criticise ;) Take care Sir and please be safe.
For some, it's about the name, they'll choose Patek over Lange, because Patek are a 'more prestigeous name and are a part of the Holy Trinity and as such 'can't do any wrong'.
For some, they'll choose Patek because they are Swiss, and somehow do not trust that German watchmaking is on the same level.
Some will regard Lange as a phoenix brand, and because they were revived in 1990 that somehow invalidates their heritage. Whereas Patek's being in continuous business ever since their founding makes them preferable.
I don't subscribe to any of the above views, but I see them mentioned.
A more objective notion is the case design. Lange predominently use the barrel with welded lugs approach, which can be a little unforgiving on the wrist. Patek lean more towards blended lug designs with horizontal lines that make their watches seem thinner and sit on the wrist a little lower.
Some also bring Bauhaus into the equation. But I think Lange designs are actually more classical; harking back to pre-Bauhaus pocket watch infuences. It's a different design language than Patek, for sure, with Patek being quite reserved and contemparory.
Speaking for myself, they are both beautiful in both design and engineering. I look at my preferences on a watch by watch basis. Though I do find myself leaning in favor of ALS more often than not. That said, I have never tried any of these on the wrist and we all know that can change everything.
Hey Meson ... I agree, buy the watch; not just the brand. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Your title is incomplete "....or Not Eating for 20 Years #304"
😅 Yes Shaun, I did leave that out! Take care and be safe, Bill😷
LMFAO.
Well Bill, you may be in luck! A peruse of the ALS website shows the 1815 Ref 235.032 (small second, arabics) to be 38.5mm. Perfect?! Isn't that a Saxonia you've got there? I'm a big fan of the 1815 in most of its forms. Pateks tend to leave me a bit cold, bar their chronograph, 5172.
Yes James, I had a Saxsonia ... along with the 35mm case and 15k price ... just the wrong label (I think.) Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Hi bill
Hi Geezer! Got my shot, and hope you got yours... this way we'll both keep on tickin' Take care and be safe, Bill😷
18:54 that is not 1815.. its saxonia thin..
Thanks Kevin! I'll check it out! Take care, Bill
a lange and sohne 100% for me
Hey Operamatt! You cannot be clearer than that! Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Hard choices Bill, I love Lange and their designs, but Patek has this allure that other brands can't reach.
If I had to choose one from each that would be the Patek 5960 P and the Lange Datograph Up and Down
Abdul, the other choice is The Académie Horlogère des Créateurs Indépendants (AHCI), that's the path I like. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
I cheaped out with a GO Pano with the forest green dial. Great video, Bill.
That's a beautiful color with the GO Pano, Matthew! Take care and be safe, Bill😷
What a coincidence. I got a 5227j last week and will get a Lange 1 (moon phase) few months later. Very nice to have your video on them.
Well, ck CA, it's a choice between two goods! Not difficult if you get both! Take care, Bill
It’s a Saxonia lange, not an 1815 😁
There were 2 Watches labeled 1815 ... which one are you talking about Simon? Thanks, Bill
I don't quite understand the trepidation with Silicon, it is simply a component in the alloy of a spring. The use of silicon alloyed springs instead of classic steel is simply to address magnetism, and maybe to a lesser extent, shock. I understand that Silicon is not a metal, but in the end, you wind up with a spring. The advantage of a Silicon spring is inertness to magnetism, but the disadvantage is the it is more brittle. Perhaps it may not last as many cycles as a classic steel spring? For anyone interested, there is an article by Danny Milton from Oct 2020 in Hodinkee on a brief history of modern Rolex balance springs. It covers Parachrom with two main elemental components being niobium and zirconium, both of which are transitional metals, and article also covers Syloxi, Rolex equivalent of silicium, French term for silicon.
Jack, if you want want mechanical watches with silicon balance springs, knock yourself out. You can have the more accurate quartz watch (quartz is nothing but silicon & oxygen) or the even more accurate smart watch linked to an atomic clock for peak accuracy-and you know that these mini-computer watches are loaded with silicon. What 'trepidation?' In fact, I just don't understand why everyone doesn't have a smart watch if they embrace inflexible metalloids like silicon over flexible (and adjustable) transitional metals like niobium, titanium, and zirconium. I like the flexible ones like Harrison, Breguet and Huygens used. It's a choice; not a competition. Were it a competition, I'd get an Apple Smart Watch. Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Sorry Bill. I hope i didn’t upset you. An analog watch with a silicon hair spring is no where near an apple watch to me, but maybe it is to you. And that’s ok. After all, this hobby is about what stirs your emotions. Take care.
@@jackprick9797 It's a choice, Jack. Why is that not understood? You choose silicon; I choose transitional metals. No harm; no foul..
Very good comparison. IMHO there is no "better" brand. Each has some great models. PP has famed thin Perpetuals, ALS fantastic Chronos. I am inclined to refuse silicone as well, but surely there are different qualities too. AHCI watches for sure are rarer and some are in another horology league.
Yes, I'm beginning to look at non-independents as watches-by-bean-counters, and independents (not counting the crowd-funded junk) as watchmaker who really care about the art and science of mechanical watchmaking. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Another great vid Bill. Thank you ❤️
Hey WH! Thanks man! Take care and be safe, Bill😷
off topic ... but I think you should also make a review about the Zenith Chronomaster Sport. Probably the most discussed watch since quite some time. I love it and find it to be more than different enough .... than the overhyped Daytona. But some Rolex fan boys seems to disagree ... I own the daytona's but respect the Zenith even more and ordered it immediately ... would be interesting to hear your thoughts :-)
Ok Bruno, I'll do it. Expect a VestPocket Video on Zenith Chronomaster Sport soon. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Great Review bill none the less.
Thanks Nakamoto. You might find this interesting in thinking about PP and AL&S www.scmp.com/magazines/style/luxury/article/3186876/has-silicon-won-over-swiss-watchmakers-rolex-jaeger?fbclid=IwAR1pxScu4RiUszvejJ8qvuXrwVnVSayRUno3OiH9Ls7E5Bm4Yh31OVkSDpc. Take care, Bill
The local Patek boutique has far less security so that will be the one for me.
What? You're not thinking of knocking off a Patek boutique are you Doc? Take care,Bill
@@watchartsci Thanks for making the comparison video! It's well done.
WatchArtSci, Bill hi, the price on that 1815 Lange (35 mm) - is 15K for a new or a used piece?
Alexander, my bad ... I labeled a Saxonia as 1815 ... and for the Saxonia the 15k is correct. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
No worries. Nevertheless, is that a new or a used price? I can't imagine it being new for a Lange
@@almeladze No, that's the correct price for a 35mm Saxonia.
The GS Spring Drive is not a true quartz movement - it is a mechanical movement that is quartz regulated. There are no batteries or stepper motors, and this innovative design simply swaps out the balance wheel / escapement with smooth spinning rotor than is electro-mechanically braked to precise timing. Everything else is the same. Silicon is essentially a solid lubricant that is chemically etched, as apposed to a machined product. The silicon is more exacting and AMagnetic. The only drawback is SI cannot be repaired - it must be replaced. The ALS Timezone is just a dual time watch - I actually prefer their Saxonia Dual Time. The PP 5230 is one of the most beautiful watches in the world and is a true world timer. The chronograph comparison was not ideal - you should have used the PP 5170 or 5172, which also have horizontal clutch movements. The Nautilus chrono has a vertical clutch movement - CH 28. Keep up the cool videos.
Hey Southnc! All quartz watches have quartz regulators ... that's the 'quartz' part. The rest is supplying an electrical charge to the quartz. Nothing wrong with that; I just like the hairspring and balance wheel. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
the pp 5277 looks boring and too simple compared to the Lange 1 .
You get no joy from 5277, but like the Lange 1, Mohammad? Always remember, your money; your choice! Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci Dear Bill : you know very well that A Lange is Superior than patek when it comes to finishing and dial details . look how simple and boring is 5277 dial compared to the dial of Lang 1 .
However , I agree with you when it comes to money .
5227J ❤
Love the Calatava and Officer's watch dust cover ... but not an automatic nor the silicon hairspring. Take care, Bill
Holly Trinity Bill! No German Watches. Berlin watch maker that re-opened shop. No thank you.
The Patek 5170 is one of the ultimate Chronos.
Hand wind. Look into it.
Nice video mate.
Hey Tim, thanks man! I think you like the 5170... Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Hello Tim, Berlin watchmaker I don't understand. If you are talking about ALS, they are in Glashütte.
The A. Lange are beautiful watches. I’m still in that phase where the dial is probably the deciding factor. The PanoReserve Blue for me is a must watch, not only the dial is beautiful but it seems that it’s the best value right now in HH. Thanks again for another great video content.
Hi Los Font! I like the Green and Blue GOs... and you're right about the best value! Take care and be safe, Bill😷
The choice is easy, choose an independent....😉
Yes FM, that's what I tend to do. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
"I don't know about these brands. I might get a Glashutte"
Me too
GO are cheaper but are great watches 🙏🏴
Never want to get a watch that puts you into a bind financially, Tippy. The GO is a good choice.Take care and be safe, Bill😷
GO for 1/3 price of Lange 1 is the way to go!
There's a popular option Jack, and you have more colors to choose from. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
The GO is great, but that power reserve looks like a broken hand.
On the GO, Harry? Take care, Bill
5227
Yes indeed Dinesh, and 3468 is what I can afford. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Get to the point!
Relax Jenkem... sometimes the point requires more than a crayon and cartoon.😉 Take care and be safe, Bill 😷