Denuvo performance impact tested before and after DRM was removed.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Games tested:
Dying Light 2
Rise of the Tomb Raider
Shadow of the Tomb Raider,
Lies of P
Doom Eternal
Company of Heroes 3
Borderlands 3
Ace Combat 7
Ghostwire Tokyo
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FAQ: Why does this sound different from the old videos? Did the channel change hands?
A: No. I (Overlord, channel creator, writer & video editor) am now directly producing my audio since the external arrangement that produced the old audio became inoperable. I made a video announcing this change: th-cam.com/video/R52TfKkQ15E/w-d-xo.html
Q2: What happened to the old audio arrangement?
A: The last script I uploaded was never processed, and the status indicator on the interface I uploaded scripts to has been "offline" for well over a year now. Considering all I used to do was upload my script and wait to be notified that the audio was ready to download, I've no idea how to fix this or if this situation can even be fixed. I have nobody to contact about this.
isn't it better to test games while CPU-bound? you could try A) using a weaker more mainstream CPU or B) lowering resolution enough
are you also keeping an eye on for example clearing the standby list using something like ISLC?
Would you be able to also list build versions of the games that the tests were run on? We'd like to know if Denuvo version is using 1.25 exe and non-Denuvo is using version 1.70, which might contain a dozen of performance-improving fixes.
The difference in the size of the executable is incredible.
Its so much bloat too theres no way thats all functional code
@@wayge Well, what does functional code even mean. If we understand it as code needed to run the game, then Denuvo code is not functional code. It is like a parasite feeding off its host. Literally decreasing the value of the product, because allegedly that will result in squeezing out all they can get from the market. Not to mention its own cost, despite having no value for the consumer. It is so backwards in so many ways. Focused on maximizing profits by creating an antagonistic, distrust based relationship with the customer than simple providing better value.
@@AhidoMikaroYou absolutely need to send this post to every review firm for Denuvo. Perfect analysis.
@@AhidoMikaro”providing better value” won’t stop piracy. like it or not, companies are driven by profit, and their analysts whom they’ve paid a lot of money have determined that whatever financial cost there is associated with the decreased performance is outweighed by the benefit of preventing people from stealing their game. it is what it is
the load times and frametimes are absolutely brutal and quite damning. Publishers are literally telling us "if you care about performance, don't buy the game; pirate it"
Except you cant pirate* denuvo games now...the only group to crack denuvo is long disappeared from the scene
The usual story... Regulation disproportionately punishes those who already do the right thing, those who already do the wrong thing don't face the burden of compliance
Also Denuvo uses more RAM (+2-3GB), so w/o Denuvo most games can easily run on a system with 16GB of RAM. While games with Denuvo force you to upgrade to 32GB of RAM.
To reduce 1% low problems, you need to upgrade your CPU.
To improve loading times you need to upgrade your SSD.
So if you want to play games with Denuvo and get the same experience as if there was no Denuvo, you had to upgrade your CPU, your SSD and switch to 32GB of RAM. It is pretty costly to play games with Denuvo after all... Better wait until Denuvo will be removed by the publisher. By that time it will cost much cheaper.
So why buy games at launch and get worse experience? That is why I usually do not buy games at launch anymore, thanks to greedy publishers.
@@stangamer1151 And for which game precisely you need to upgrade to 32GB of RAM?
Because I've never encountered a single one where 16 wasn't enough.
Denuvo is annoying an unnecessary, but we don't need to make stuff up.
@@Unknown_Genius Hogwarts Legacy, for instance, needs 18-19GB, so it runs worse on a PC with 16GB of RAM (more stutters and hitches). If it had no DRM, then 16GB of RAM would be enough.
Earlier the same issue was with 8GB vs 16GB. RotTR and SotTR, for example, needed ~9GB when they had Denuvo. Now they use 7-8GB and tun perfectly fine on a PC with 8GB of RAM.
Back to denuvo and Denuvo-related stuff? Let's goooo
Return of the king
I like hearing the numbers because it allows me to have the video in the background or off to the side while I do something else. You don't need to do a deep dive like "the exe file is XX% smaller after Denuvo than before" but just going with the actual raw figures is fine.
I used to do that, but got feedback that it got tiring listening to numbers for 10 minutes straight.
@@OverlordGaming will you consider adding chapters to your video?
Its better
The old robot voice came off as a litlle agressive to me
your crusade against Denuvo is just amazing to watch
You can see the frametime graph is a lot more consistent and flat without denuvo, with a lot moree spikes on the denuvo version, this makes a noticeable difference in smoothness
Amen
Why Upload Soo Late (After 3 Month)
I was Waiting , We Need You
As someone else pointed out it might be worth mentioning each game's build number or version used in the uncracked and cracked tests as there could be a statistically significant difference in performance or loading times if the steam version is much newer than the version that was cracked without denuvo. This information could make or break this entire test in my opinion.
If the test is of the options users are faced with, this is still a valid "real world" test - it reflects the actual performance differences experienced by players as a result of the limitation on available options e.g. an un-updated crack exe
Any other fixes or features different between patches becomes part of the decision
What is important, MOST (like dozens) games with Denuvo are loading slower. So it just can not be a coincidence.
I remember when the publisher removed Denuvo from SotTR and RotTR they both started to load much faster. Before that I was wondering why they were loading so slow, while all other games without Denuvo were still loading pretty fast (no matter the type and the size of a game).
@@greebj The absence of the information ive suggested including hurts the overall results and message because if the cracked and uncracked versions are two different builds then that introduces other variables into the equation that could have had an affect on the outcome of the testing. It was always a "real world" test, its just a (potentially) flawed "real world" test that has broader implications on the actual data. If we know that the cracked and uncracked versions are the same build then this test and the data that resulted from it are pretty significant in my opinion.
@@Sephtaso all these games had patches that improved loading and fps and it coincided with denuvo s removal 😂?
@@Sol4rFl4r3 I am just suggesting that the information be provided. I am not making any claims like you are suggesting.
you have been missed
wake up babe, new overlord gaming upload
And the solution is not to get rid of denuvo but to slap upscaling and frame generation according to companies. That in and of itself is making them lazier in terms of optimizing their games.
0.1% lows are hit pretty hard. Those are the frames you notice the most ironically as they are often the jumps/hickups and stutters.
WELCOME BACK BRA
The absolute worst thing about Denuvo and any DRM is that if you don't have internet or their servers go offline the game is unplayable/gone forever. They don't care about preservation, just your money. The people who develop drm are truly pathetic
Remember when game EXEs were ~5MB? Peperidge farm remembers.
The fact that adding denuvo to Doom Eternal more than triples the size of the game install says more than enough for me.
DO NOT BUY GAMES WITH DENUVO!!!
Got a new subscriber thanks to Mr. Sujano. He sent me here.
Me too 😅
What video was it? Might have missed it.
@@meisterwu8922 it’s been a while but he mentioned about your video shortly after you released it.
I like to listen to your videos - this one wasn't much good for that.
When will devs learn that Denuvo does nothing other than discouraging some people who would otherwise buy the game to not buy it and screw with those who do buy it.
It doesn't stop piracy at all, the best selling games of recent years did not have denuvo at all and they sold just fine even with pirates playing them day one, examples include Elder Ring, Baldur's Gate 3 and Hogwarts Legacy.
Just make good games and people will buy them.
I can get shared acc for $0-2 Denuvo is just worthless it doesn't stop pirates it only encourages for a grey market to thrive and only harms legit buyers. Good game don't need antipiracy countermeasures and piracy may help them to spread message about good game even further.
i actually prefer the new audio
Yes, Welcome back! Denuvo is and will be the worst piece of S*_% ever. Great video, happy to see you back !
Hello first all thanks for all your videos you apport us a real proof of the impact of denuvo. And I would like to ask you a favor, could do a video about the fact that the empress stopped hacking denuvo, I mean a video about the fact that If I am not wrong denuvo is know not hacked anymore by anyone ? And so to what could it leads.
Thanks for the video
lies of p dropped denuvo? i'll buy it now. it's also on -40% sale.
I’m so confused? That other channel? Is that still you?
yes
Which one? Name please
@@darkerm76 youtube.com/@Yettea
2:19 - WTF? That's nearly a 4x difference in load times. My God, this DRM crap needs to go! 😡
I liked the other narrator but to hear the actual owner of the channel...............I'm good w/ that too. Keep up the good work!
It's over for the corporations anyways, I don't even mind them using denuvo at this point. There's so many much better games from the last 20 years than anything that's getting put out these days, and for free basically. You can pay like 5 dollars for amazing old games, or get them through other means.
When an actual game I want to support comes out, I just pay full price, and this happens rarely.
Please don't just show the numbers and explain them at least a little! Otherwise nice Video!
Were you also aware that another group removed Denuvo from some old games like Burnout Paradise Remastered? It happened last month if sources are right.
Seeing that some games have very little impact on performance, I wonder if integrating Denuvo on your game has some steep learning curve...
And they still will keep on lying that doesn't affect performance and loading times and that i need to "upgrade my piece of outdated junk" yeah except it's denuvo that turning your pc into a piece of junk.
The frame times on denuvo removed is fkin night and day difference. Its so bad
Please cover the numbers on the screen, I can't see it well on my phone when just listening to the video.
How did dying light had lower framerate without denuvo? O_o
This narration is leagues better 👍
You've got a new subscriber!
Great work, as always!
Only 2 masterpieces in the denuvo list. The rest is woke shite.
Something's off with your Lies of P numbers
Love your videos keep doing what you do. 💯👍
Yooooo
Holy bottleneck Batman!
Why were Dying Light 2's results so different than others?
I noticed to. It got worse instead of better. Definitely needs a retake.
Considering the devs I wouldn't be surprised if they just broke the game while removing ti.
Different game versions maybe?
Thanks, we need more of these!
That ghostwire tokyo reduction in load times is crazy
HYPED to see you back with another great Denuvo video. Can you add chapters? That'll help a lot, I think.
5:20 these have to be swapped, right? No way the game is getting such ludicrously 1% and .1% lows with Denuvo, yeah?
It makes me laugh that they thought Immortals of Aveum would be in demand enough to need denuvo protection 😂
Ah welcome Overlord.
now
WHAT Doon eternal have denovo!!! no wonder why i feel it "off" for some reason when playing it in Ps4
In regaredfs to methodology:
You might want to select "Max Performance" in the Nvidia control panel when doing these tests, and make sure to use a voltage frequency curve that never hits the power limit.
There is quit a bit of fluctuance in the GPU clock on some of the games, and you'll ideally prefer to eliminate the latency associated with changing the clock bin, as this will impact the 1% and .1% lows.
Ideally run at the lowest possible resolution as well, as Denuvo does not include shader code, so it makes very little sense to compare GPU-limited scenarios.
Did you also make sure to clear both driver and game shader caches when swapping game versions? If the only difference is denuvo and not shader code, the second run will match the shader hashes of the first run invalidating the 1%-low results, as the cached binary is used. You did not mention this step in the intro.
Why would you have the audio produced by someone else? I'd understand it if you had a thick accent...
I did not have suitable equipment and environment to do it myself. Furthermore, I'm not very good at it. Often I have to splice together the best of several takes so you don't hear stuttering.
@@OverlordGaming The splicing method is 100% normal by the way.
6:08 I'm scratching my head at the with Denuvo results. How can the minimum framerate be higher than the 1% and 0.1% lows?
Expected cpu usage higher. Seems like denuvo uses parralel processing similar to cuda to realtime decrypt
I think you should do multiple runs of each to get an average. So nobody can say those are just outliers/flukes.
I will never buy any games on PC if it has denuvo and would buy the console versions to avoid the issues until the developers remove it.
its going to be terrible once denuvo has another server outage or they go out of business some day resulting in many games using denuvo will be unplayable.
And in future will be the Starforge saga over again. Denuvo in future will be bricking out pcs when we move to win12/13.
I Enjoyed when you talk in the video, how you did while back hope you bring same or even better content 😀
great work, i know it took a lot of effort but can you please do the tests on something like a steam deck. lower end devices are going to be hit the hardest and especially those with weaker CPUs right.
Some of the loading differences are huge and I wonder if they're just that longer due to the first boot where the shaders are being compiled.
would be interesting to see this on some low-end hardware like the steamdeck running windows, also i assume this would all be even more pronounced on a cpu bound system
good job
Was hags on or off during tests? I'm curious because of load times and used cpu
let's not forget driver overhead
But it's more CiNeMaTiC tHIs WaY!
Judging by the file sized, these are very different versions of Denuvo, so it would be interesting to see if newer versions have lesser effect or not
Where do you get the music for your videos?
bespoke, this music has no name yet
Imagine paying for worse performance. This is why you should LEARN how to pirate video games.
I remember that every PC in my CAD class had Doom installed on it in a certain file. I found it just exploring the files. Fun times.
Frustrating! As an honest customer you feel like you're repeatedly being kicked in the butt by certain companies.
Oh YES, another one of these!! Great work once again!
we all know this is somewhat flawed because new patches could've fixed certain performance issues, not always but a good chunk of it.
other than that, you need to make that rtss HUD text bigger. it's unreadable
Ghostwire Tokyo changed absolutely nothing and I can say that it stutters significantly less after the removal of DENUVO. Also the executable file size load times speak for itself.
Also my machine is far slower than the testing machines shown in this video. So performance gains are even more noticeable for me.
Great!
I wonder how Denuvo and other Copy Protections impact the mod-ability of Games...
Would the Developers pack/zip/encode so much of their Game Data if they would not be worried about Piracy?
Lately, I tried to upscale some older Games, but even Ai could not help finding Tools to unlock those Containers :(
I'm pretty sure denuvo is incompatible with modding. It's pretty much the point of it ...to make sure you don't change the game.
@@domm6812 I just checked Rise of the Tombraider, and it looks like the Mods came after the removal of Denuvo.
And Lies of P was modded the same year (Sep 2023 - Feb 2024) and then when Denuvo was removed (Feb 2024), modding activity went down. But that can be of a lack of interest...
So I am still not sure what to make of it. I don't own many Games, and this was just me being curious ^^
The Question still stands and without someone from within the Dev Scene telling us, I don't think there will be a real Conclusion to gain.
@@fr0zen1isshadowbanned99 From my understanding (not a dev but have seen a lot of statements on the matter), Denuvo on it's own doesn't harm modding. Denuvo performs validation checks and obfuscates those checks as much as possible. AFAIK, Denuvo doesn't perform any validation of any files (barring the potential of itself) so the only time mods are affected is when a game packs most (if not all) of itself into the .exe (like Shantae). As an example of it, Persona 4 Golden has a lot of mods on Gamebanana but to this day, the game still has Denuvo in it's .exe. While there was a leak of a Denuvoless exe, that's both removed and outdated so I doubt mods would be taking that version into account.
I'd imagine putting all your files into the .exe is a bad idea so this problem seldom comes up though
Bump
Smooth af voice, bro.
That just shows, piracy IS the better service for delivering a btter product. Why buy it when getting a purposly flawed product, if they did not do it one would gladly pay for it.
Man I wished I could curse the Denuvo Devs /CEO's, buyers and users to have it forced on them on every single thing they use on their phone, PC and Laptop so they would finaly learn their lesson, and it should be allways online only with constant disconnects so they can't use anything every now and then ... and shall their pillows alwlays be warm on both sides.
oh yes, thank you and F denuvo
It's so bizarre seeing people blindly defend this malware DRM, citing that it does nothing. It does a lot more than nothing - it robs the end user of CPU cycles which are then not available for optimizing your game, it bloats the game executable to an often unnatural size, and it robs the end user of their precious time in waiting even longer. Denuvo robs everyone except Irdeto and the greedy devs who have altered thinking from the greed addiction. Don't buy games with Denuvo, wait patiently until they remove it and don't bother debating with the robot drones who claim that it does nothing. Denuvo only feeds a greed addiction and steals from the end user including their FPS. Copy protection has always been designed to cripple or thwart, and if Denuvo ever goes down you lose access to your Denuvo-laced games.
Problem with these tests are that you are testing different versions of the game, meaning the game was patched AND denunvo was removed. As game performance generally changes over time via patches we do not know which of the performance differences are the result of Denuvo and which are not. Basically the only one that can test this properly is the gamestudio itself by creating two builds, one with and one without.
Waiting for black myth wukong benchmark
This. I hope it can make it playable on Steam Deck.
I've already purchased the game.
Keep up the good work OverlordGaming !!
Even though your voice is different i think you should continue uploading to this channel !!
What's the music you used?
Bespoke, are you asking because it sounds good or bad?
@@OverlordGaming Yeah I like it, was wondering if I can download it in .flac and the full song.
What is this music?
Bespoke. Since you asked, did you like or dislike it?
@@OverlordGaming I very much enjoy it. It's the kind of thing that might go into my "music for the car" collection.
As an advocate of being Anti-Denuvo in the Modern Gaming Industry, I am glad to patiently wait until Denuvo is removed from popular PC games before acquiring them.
Any gaming developer that is happy with that result makes my Black List for the future; it shows me what kind of company they really are on the inside~
those 10 and 15 fps are very important for people with weaker hardware, look at what they are doing to people with this anti-tamper...
It isn't working like that at all
Miss your old voice mate.
Civ 7 sneaked Denuvo on it. People getting banned for even discussing it.
YOU THE MAN!!!! This is why I will consistently buy DRM free products.
why is there a 10W difference in company of heroes and higher > 500MB RAM usages?
I don't just think Denuvo should be removed, I think the company should be sued and have employees imprisoned for:
1: defrauding game publishers with claims of anti piracy when it never prevented piracy
2: ruining games for everyone in order to profit
It's been stated multiple times already, denuvo is not the ultimate protection for piracy but it's meant for first 2-4 weeks of sales, when potential income is the highest.
No one's suing anyone, let the companies wither away ... There is no profit since money is worthless and based on debt.
@@tirtel1 And yet it failed more often than not.
@@Ripper935 If money's worthless at this point, buy some bread with nothing.
I agree Fiat is done but you're being silly.
@@frankwren8215 Oh poor child. Do you know about the Financial System?
So most of the time modern Denuvo has actually no performance noticeable FPS impact. Loading sure but not FPS. I already knew that but Pirates keep on claiming numbers from many years ago.
Nopety nopey no.
First off "noticeable" is your subjective opinion, which is why we look at numbers in these videos
0.1% lows differ matter more than averages, and the observed results here show that "Pirates" are indeed correct - this DRM punishes the users who do the right thing far more often than there is "no difference"
A 10% fps upgrade usually costs a few hundreds of extra dollars in more powerful hardware
Or you could overclock, which has different costs of extra power and the increased risk of failure/reduced lifespan
Etc
Many games stutter (and even freeze) much frequently due to the presence of this DRM. It is very obvious if you compare it during real gameplay scenarios (not during built-in benchmarks) and use a midrange CPU. It happens in CPU heavy scenes, like cities/settlements, for example. RotTR was stuttering every 10 seconds on my old i7 2600K CPU in the Geothermal Valley. And when moving from one location to another the game was freezing for 2-3 seconds. Once Denuvo was removed from this game, it is now running very smooth, no stutters/freezes at all. Even Ryzen 1600 had issues with this game before Denuvo was removed.
Good stuff. Interesting to see that some games like "Immortals of Aveum", "Lies of P" or "Shadow of The Tomb Raider" managed to implement it without having any negative effects at all. Other games did manage to implement with minor impact (increased loading time, but no real felt impact to players) like "Ghost Wire Tokyo" and "Borderlands" while others bungled it up to the point where it actually affects performance in a notable way, like Company of Heroes. I wonder if it's the version they used, or just their understanding of Denuvo or something else
Immortals of Aveum performed terrible on launch. A 10% increase in performance is quite substantial for such a demanding game!
Wrong. SotTR was running worse with Denuvo. I tested it on my old Ryzen 2600 back when Denuvo was removed and my CPU gained ~10% more frames. Also loading times reduced significantly. Before it was loading slower than on PS4. After Denuvo was removed it is now loading faster than on PS4 (which is expected, since 2600 is much faster than Jaguar).
@@stangamer1151 the reality is that in modern cases denuvo while still having an impact, can be considered insignificant
@@HellDuke- Depends on a CPU you use. If you have 7800X3D or 13700K, for example, sure, you will probably not notice any significant difference. But if you have something like 12400f or R5 5600, the impact is very significant, especially in CPU-heavy scenes (cities, settlements, crowded locations, etc.).
The weaker the CPU you use, the more noticeable influence Denuvo has on your gaming experience.
@@stangamer1151 This is true. And honestly the CPU requirements on games are absolutely ridiculous these days. We have more CPU power than ever for 10 years now, yet such badly optimized games.
The thing is, the only way to truly protect your product is to obscure it to the point of it being unusable. Look at the way stock image sites watermark entire images, you can't just crop out like you could if it was a logo in a corner. The data itself has to be destroyed or encrypted, copy protection can be circumvented if the data itself remains intact. The more advanced DRM are extremely intrusive to the game's functioning, it's not a box a game is put in, but more of a tumor, or an eldritch monster with its tendrils embedded deep in every aspect of the game's functioning. It monitors and messes with everything. "If you remove me, the host dies with me" kind of thing. We are way past the point of inconveniencing genuine users, and it doesn't even work. Denuvo titles still get cracked regularly.