Not knowing the bible might still make you into a religious liberal, sometimes reading the bible often makes you a moderate, having it read to you in church can result in being fundamentalist, but a serious critical reading usually makes you an atheist.
+zenman5910 I was never religious, so the question I got when reading the BIble was not 'why should I believe this is true?' but instead 'why would I want this to be true?'. It is a fairly terrifying picture of the universe if it had been true.
Wish I could stream audio from my brain to my mouth like Sam does! I certainly agree with Sam but can't help wondering how frustrating it must be at times!
One of the "problems" of fundamentalists (of whatever religion or politic) is that they can also be very useful to governments, so whilst at times they can be a problem they are at other times very handy, so its not about getting rid of them, more about keeping them at arms length.
Of course you are right there, and I agree. The current scenario does not look like rational behaviour at all, and in that one would be a pessimist. But I said "basically rational". Otherwise one would not have much co-operation in improving things and build a better future. And things can be improved as you well know if one keeps working at it. That's why I am optimistic. I am now 75 years old, and I have to be optimistic. That keeps me going.
wow i think this is the first sam harris comment thread not being mucked up by religious comments trying to defend the floundering faith! maybe we are progressing. long live logic and reason
+mike weston "Teacher" I think is more applicable and appropriate than preacher. Preachers "preach" because they need that form of delivery to make their ridiculous message sway stupid minds. When a message has "actual" substance, there is no need to preach!
I want to know how "God" picks winners (something conservative politicians are apparently loathe to do). We know that if God exists he/she/it picks winners because each side in a battle in various wars have prayed for victory and in the end only one side wins. I would like a religious person to tell me where the side that lost got it wrong.
The fact that faith is so prevalent, in spite of evidence just seems to indicate to me that most people are stupid. It doesn't say anything about the 'truth' of those claims, other than that there is no good argument in favor of it.
And the prize for dumbest question of the night goes to..... the host! After an hour and a half of talking by Harris, the host jumps out and says "I didn't understand shit of what you talked about..." :p Brilliant.
@UnionGarside Haha I know. I was like, "I've never seen this before"? The funny thing is that we've heard it all before and yet we STILL sit through the entire video haha.
On the positive side, I believe that human beings are basically rational beings and are thus inclined or predisposed to make rational decisions and to act rationally, unless "handicapped" by mental aberrations and bad education. Irrational and oppressive religious dogma taught in early life has stultified the ability of generations of fundamentally decent people to think freely. Nevertheless, the social malady can be overcome.
Did he talk about Tolle, naming him "the great Eckhart"? Eckhart believes in an afterlife and doesnt dare to critcize any religion, out of commercial opportunism.. strange..
Islamic fundamentalism, as far as I can make out, is a problem for the Muslim world and Islam as a whole, not just for us. And if that is the problem then how does one deal with it? It has been said many times that American foreign policy for many years has been aggravating the problem instead of finding ways to overcome it by peaceful means and diplomacy.
The fact that faith is so prevalent in spite of the absence of so called evidence, which would be necessary in other instances, is in itself a strong indication of the authenticity of faith! For me, the existence of the created is evidence of the creator!
I am having a very hard time getting Harris` vids to load lately. And I am aqsked eachtime I want to make a comment, to open a new "channel", none of which I want. Anyone else?
Well, it's kind of the point of what I'm trying to say: people who deny the holocaust ( downright question whether or not any jews at all have died ) or people who meerely argue about the death toll, the best way to deal with them is absolutely to put all the facts on the table and let them have their way. If you forbid them from arguing on the issue, you just give them enough space to behave like a marginalized minority.
You mentioned that a rational person wouldn't use that kind of argument because it is a non-sequitur. And just added two more reasons to point out that his argumentation is flawed ;)
Although religous adherence is lower in Northern Europe and Australia the living standard is just comparable not better than America. Some things are worse. The grocery stores in the US are better stocked with vegetables. You would be a little better off if you got cancer in America than Australia. So Harris is right about most things. But the US is actually a counter example to any theory that religious adherence = lower living conditions.
The host's "prerogative question" wasn't so much a question as some statements and a request. If he has to work harder as a believer, it's only because it takes more effort to defend the indefensible or to believe what is unbelievable. His ignoble request for help was annoyingly disingenuous. Reason and rational thought takes time and effort, a dogmatic theistic world view does not.
I don't think you are addressing or stating the problem correctly. Ignorance and superstition in whatever form are the problem and have been so for a very long time. We had the Golden Age of Greece. And then later we had the Dark Ages. And then we had an Age of Enlightenment. People do co-operate if they can be shown good solutions to the problems of life. And if you do it well people do listen, One needs to keep on working at it, and expose falsehoods wherever it shows its ugly head.
really that's like only Isreal (i think) and Germany (I know). Those are unique situations, Germany outlaws it because it was the way the German people felt they could show remorse and make sure the world and they themselves could break away from the lingering effects of nazism. It's not enough to remain silent, you need to actively speak out against nazi sympathy because of the horrible affect it had, if your germany.
Without question, cut away the east and west coasts(which are not surprisingly the least religious by far), and all you have left is a country entirely filled with bible thumpers and a country that will barely make a mark in the world of economics and progress.
Jesus said "So it will be at the end of the age,the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,and will throw them into the furnace of fire,in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."Matthew 13:49-50.Jesus also said "You are my friends if you do what I command you." John 15:14. Jesus taught that the only way to be saved is to choose him as your Lord and Master, repent and believe that he died for the sins of his people on the cross see John 14:6.
Sorry - I just had to go somewhere to write how such an overwhelming amount of the pro-religious, anti-atheist vids have comments disabled. Just like religion itself they want their input sealed, and fixed in time, something to subject to, not to discuss, something to impose on people, offering no freedom to reply, something to end dialogue and investigation, something to hold up as an unassailable icon, deliberately isolated from reality yet so clearly moved there and enforced by human hands.
Eight minutes in Sam has only really discussed the poll results from America regarding religion and the apocalypse, and the stupendously dumb idea of intelligent design. That entire part is based on poll results, and so it's not at all a straw-man.
Google "Islamic fundamentalism" and read in the Wikipedia article on it. That gives us quite a different picturet than the one that Sam Harris wants us to believe is correct. .
I got 8 minutes into this and all I heard was Harris demonstrating his own ignorance of the issues and constructing straw men (which he no doubt will spend the remainder of his time burning down). I can understand why those who hate and/or misunderstand Christianity (or religion of any kind) love him. He is eloquent, but his arguments are so incompetent that they just aren't worth taking seriously.
Wow, none of his arguments would suggest Sam Harris has ever really explored the other side of the argument. He clearly doesn't get it. He can't know that God doesn't exist so why make it your life's work to push the argument when that theory has absolutely nothing to offer.
Sorry - I just had to go somewhere to write how such an overwhelming amount of the pro-religious, anti-atheist vids have comments disabled. Just like religion itself they want their input sealed, and fixed in time, something to subject to, not to discuss, something to impose on people, offering no freedom to reply, something to end dialogue and investigation, something to hold up as an unassailable icon, deliberately isolated from reality yet so clearly moved there and enforced by human hands.
Sorry - I just had to go somewhere to write how such an overwhelming amount of the pro-religious, anti-atheist vids have comments disabled. Just like religion itself they want their input sealed, and fixed in time, something to subject to, not to discuss, something to impose on people, offering no freedom to reply, something to end dialogue and investigation, something to hold up as an unassailable icon, deliberately isolated from reality yet so clearly moved there and enforced by human hands.
Hitch is the wrecking ball you send in to clear out the slums, Harris is the architect that puts solid houses up afterwards.
I Love You , Sam Harris!! I REALLY LIKE YOUR ANALOGY OF THE DIAMOND IN THE BACKYARD!! YOU ARE BRILLIANT& AM SO GLAD I BECAME AN ATHEIST!!
Sam Harris......Great Man
Not knowing the bible might still make you into a religious liberal, sometimes reading the bible often makes you a moderate, having it read to you in church can result in being fundamentalist, but a serious critical reading usually makes you an atheist.
Perfectly succinct...well said.
+zenman5910 I was never religious, so the question I got when reading the BIble was not 'why should I believe this is true?' but instead 'why would I want this to be true?'. It is a fairly terrifying picture of the universe if it had been true.
I cannot agree more.
love this guy
Me too
Me too
Me too.
Sam Harris is amazing.
I think the only difference in this talk to his other talks with this topic is the "I'm also a percussionist" line. Fucking worth it!
Wish I could stream audio from my brain to my mouth like Sam does! I certainly agree with Sam but can't help wondering how frustrating it must be at times!
Very nice talk. Sam Harris has profoundly influenced me.
Sam Harris is my savior now.
One of the "problems" of fundamentalists (of whatever religion or politic) is that they can also be very useful to governments, so whilst at times they can be a problem they are at other times very handy, so its not about getting rid of them, more about keeping them at arms length.
Like Denmark, Sweden and Norway. Largely atheist, and all offer their citizens a fantastic quality of life.
Bigup science and Engineering
There is almost nobody who is right as frequently, as fully, and as devastatingly as Sam Harris.
"I wouldn't want to live in a Universe in which there wasn't a diamond buried in my backyard." LOL @30:10
hahaha
nope. Its a strong indication of a fact that people are terrified by death and would believe anything to make them feel better.
Of course you are right there, and I agree. The current scenario does not look like rational behaviour at all, and in that one would be a pessimist. But I said "basically rational". Otherwise one would not have much co-operation in improving things and build a better future. And things can be improved as you well know if one keeps working at it. That's why I am optimistic. I am now 75 years old, and I have to be optimistic. That keeps me going.
Please Lord, freee us from religion!!!
wow i think this is the first sam harris comment thread not being mucked up by religious comments trying to defend the floundering faith! maybe we are progressing. long live logic and reason
To all of Sam’s enthusiasts!
No one is comparable to my late Imam, His Holiness, Saint Christopher Hitchens pbuh.
George Moncayo had the correct comment of all of these! There is now way of getting around this no matter what! Truth is truth.
Thanks for the upload.
No other preacher has ever so been good pointing why all religion is a noble threat.
+mike weston "Teacher" I think is more applicable and appropriate than preacher. Preachers "preach" because they need that form of delivery to make their ridiculous message sway stupid minds. When a message has "actual" substance, there is no need to preach!
Sam Harris also has influenced my life.
Sam Harris is a phenomenon by himself.
If you still believe in the invisible boogie man in the sky after this brilliant explanation, then you are delusional or a child.
"Everyone's a scientist and everyone's a mystic." Sam Harris.
I want to know how "God" picks winners (something conservative politicians are apparently loathe to do). We know that if God exists he/she/it picks winners because each side in a battle in various wars have prayed for victory and in the end only one side wins. I would like a religious person to tell me where the side that lost got it wrong.
Religion truly Poison's Everything
Gotta say, I love Hitch, but find Sam more accessible.
The truth doesn't change ;)
The ringing feedback from his mic stops around 11:00.
We meet again, we meet again quote
The fact that faith is so prevalent, in spite of evidence just seems to indicate to me that most people are stupid. It doesn't say anything about the 'truth' of those claims, other than that there is no good argument in favor of it.
And the prize for dumbest question of the night goes to..... the host!
After an hour and a half of talking by Harris, the host jumps out and says "I didn't understand shit of what you talked about..." :p Brilliant.
@UnionGarside Haha I know. I was like, "I've never seen this before"? The funny thing is that we've heard it all before and yet we STILL sit through the entire video haha.
Yes exactly like the belief that the earth is flat, which held sway for thousands of years. And there are still some people who believe that.
Thanks for uploading! When was this?
On the positive side, I believe that human beings are basically rational beings and are thus inclined or predisposed to make rational decisions and to act rationally, unless "handicapped" by mental aberrations and bad education. Irrational and oppressive religious dogma taught in early life has stultified the ability of generations of fundamentally decent people to think freely. Nevertheless, the social malady can be overcome.
Did he talk about Tolle, naming him "the great Eckhart"? Eckhart believes in an afterlife and doesnt dare to critcize any religion, out of commercial opportunism.. strange..
A rational person would not try to defend faith in the first place. Or use the watchmaker argument for the (infinity+1)th time.
Sam HARRIS @ 1:58
The truth does change. 5 billion years ago, the Earth did not exist. Now it does. Change.
Strange ending
No, certainly it isn't. So we have to work at it a bit harder and 10 X our efforts.
When I clicked on this I assumed it was talking about the strategic arms limitation treaty
0:31:10 pretty good.
In some countries Ive heard they have that. Which is insane. Talk about pouring fuel on the fires of idiocy
Islamic fundamentalism, as far as I can make out, is a problem for the Muslim world and Islam as a whole, not just for us.
And if that is the problem then how does one deal with it? It has been said many times that American foreign policy for many years has been aggravating the problem instead of finding ways to overcome it by peaceful means and diplomacy.
Never mind 5 years 4 months ago
The fact that faith is so prevalent in spite of the absence of so called evidence, which would be necessary in other instances, is in itself a strong indication of the authenticity of faith! For me, the existence of the created is evidence of the creator!
Actually...I don't see what you meant at all...how is it obvious?
When I saw SALT I thought of Christine O'Donnell's "Saviours Alliance for Lifting the Truth"
Amir, I believe Steve harvey is correctly describing a segment of American Christians.
1:08:24
yeah, there really isn't a harmless religion if you look at it.
"Faith trumps rational argument". well, it's 2016 and not just faith, but Trump trumps rational argument too :)
I am having a very hard time getting Harris` vids to load lately. And I am aqsked eachtime I want to make a comment, to open a new "channel", none of which I want. Anyone else?
Self immolation is not the same thing as blowing yourself up on a bus full of people.
Well, it's kind of the point of what I'm trying to say:
people who deny the holocaust ( downright question whether or not any jews at all have died ) or people who meerely argue about the death toll, the best way to deal with them is absolutely to put all the facts on the table and let them have their way. If you forbid them from arguing on the issue, you just give them enough space to behave like a marginalized minority.
problem there was official documents. Other countries didn't even accept the genocides of their past
hardy har har, that's not at all what I meant. And I think what I meant was pretty obvious.
You mentioned that a rational person wouldn't use that kind of argument because it is a non-sequitur. And just added two more reasons to point out that his argumentation is flawed ;)
Hahaha cheers for the 2 minutes of my life comrade.
What the hell does that have to do with what i just said?
Although religous adherence is lower in Northern Europe and Australia the living standard is just comparable not better than America. Some things are worse. The grocery stores in the US are better stocked with vegetables. You would be a little better off if you got cancer in America than Australia.
So Harris is right about most things. But the US is actually a counter example to any theory that religious adherence = lower living conditions.
Mohammed said, "various things." - The Koran 5:17
So what?
We meet again, 240p.
The host's "prerogative question" wasn't so much a question as some statements and a request. If he has to work harder as a believer, it's only because it takes more effort to defend the indefensible or to believe what is unbelievable. His ignoble request for help was annoyingly disingenuous. Reason and rational thought takes time and effort, a dogmatic theistic world view does not.
I don't think you are addressing or stating the problem correctly. Ignorance and superstition in whatever form are the problem and have been so for a very long time. We had the Golden Age of Greece. And then later we had the Dark Ages. And then we had an Age of Enlightenment. People do co-operate if they can be shown good solutions to the problems of life. And if you do it well people do listen, One needs to keep on working at it, and expose falsehoods wherever it shows its ugly head.
jesus is imaginary, jesus is imaginary. Shout it from the rooftops!
really that's like only Isreal (i think) and Germany (I know).
Those are unique situations, Germany outlaws it because it was the way the German people felt they could show remorse and make sure the world and they themselves could break away from the lingering effects of nazism. It's not enough to remain silent, you need to actively speak out against nazi sympathy because of the horrible affect it had, if your germany.
Without question, cut away the east and west coasts(which are not surprisingly the least religious by far), and all you have left is a country entirely filled with bible thumpers and a country that will barely make a mark in the world of economics and progress.
But any rational person would see how that's a non-sequiter.
hi
oh my I'm so scared? What am I going to do??? oh wait... there is no evidence for it. its just a book..
I love Sam Harris, but have you noticed he has about 50 paragraphs he repeats on every speech about religion
Can you qualify how he is ignorant, which constructions you construe as "straw men", and which of his arguments are incompetent?
This guy is wrong about Tibetan monks.theres atleast 4 or 5 self immolation cases every year.
Jesus said "So it will be at the end of the age,the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,and will throw them into the furnace of fire,in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."Matthew 13:49-50.Jesus also said "You are my friends if you do what I command you." John 15:14. Jesus taught that the only way to be saved is to choose him as your Lord and Master, repent and believe that he died for the sins of his people on the cross see John 14:6.
Thank God I am not an Atheist!
At least when you guys get sick you don't go bankrupt with hospital bills.
That's called being brainwashed by dogma in the religion of reason and logic. Open your eyes man!
/joke
Sorry - I just had to go somewhere to write how such an overwhelming amount of the pro-religious, anti-atheist vids have comments disabled. Just like religion itself they want their input sealed, and fixed in time, something to subject to, not to discuss, something to impose on people, offering no freedom to reply, something to end dialogue and investigation, something to hold up as an unassailable icon, deliberately isolated from reality yet so clearly moved there and enforced by human hands.
Eight minutes in Sam has only really discussed the poll results from America regarding religion and the apocalypse, and the stupendously dumb idea of intelligent design. That entire part is based on poll results, and so it's not at all a straw-man.
Google "Islamic fundamentalism" and read in the Wikipedia article on it. That gives us quite a different picturet than the one that Sam Harris wants us to believe is correct.
.
I got 8 minutes into this and all I heard was Harris demonstrating his own ignorance of the issues and constructing straw men (which he no doubt will spend the remainder of his time burning down). I can understand why those who hate and/or misunderstand Christianity (or religion of any kind) love him. He is eloquent, but his arguments are so incompetent that they just aren't worth taking seriously.
Wow, none of his arguments would suggest Sam Harris has ever really explored the other side of the argument. He clearly doesn't get it. He can't know that God doesn't exist so why make it your life's work to push the argument when that theory has absolutely nothing to offer.
Sam is merely angry at God.
Sorry - I just had to go somewhere to write how such an overwhelming amount of the pro-religious, anti-atheist vids have comments disabled. Just like religion itself they want their input sealed, and fixed in time, something to subject to, not to discuss, something to impose on people, offering no freedom to reply, something to end dialogue and investigation, something to hold up as an unassailable icon, deliberately isolated from reality yet so clearly moved there and enforced by human hands.
Sorry - I just had to go somewhere to write how such an overwhelming amount of the pro-religious, anti-atheist vids have comments disabled. Just like religion itself they want their input sealed, and fixed in time, something to subject to, not to discuss, something to impose on people, offering no freedom to reply, something to end dialogue and investigation, something to hold up as an unassailable icon, deliberately isolated from reality yet so clearly moved there and enforced by human hands.