This is one of the most important subjects you could bring up. Being a marine machinist and serving on ships. Corrosion is a constant battle if it doesn't grow out side the hull. Grows inside the plumbing. Wrong material can rust away in hours. It is the biggest pain the ass. Thanks
I'm guessing your on about the water that comes in through the sea chests? How do you deal with that internally. Especially since you can't see in to the pipe work to check, at least not without taking it offline and dismantling it?
In some infrastructure projects like big bridges electricity is used to corrode a special replaceable part that would take on itself the most of corrosion that otherwise would naturally attacked the bridge’s actual body. Maybe something like this is used on ships?
Just called my dad. For 50 years, he was a large ship builder. He say that there are green, gray, blue ones now. And explained everything you said here as well. This video is spot on!!!
Fascinating--I had no idea! Fun fact--my husband was a pilot, and he said that red is one of the few colors they don't usually use heavily on aircraft because it tends to weigh just a little bit more than the other colors, and every ounce of weight counts in the air.
This was the reason, why, a few launches in, the Space Shuttle program switched from a thermally-reflective bright-white paint on the main fuel tank (to keep the hydrogen and LOX colder) to an unpainted orange... in practice the weight savings due to eliminating the paint were greater than the thermal evaporation losses.
12-year Aircraft carrier builder here, I saw your comment. I didn't know this was a thing till I started in the industry. Now I can take this back to my job. Was your husband a naval man?
@@wickitklown90 no, but his dad was army Air Force in WW2 , and then started a crop dusting business after the war, and he flew for his dad’s business, commercially a bit, and for a long time as a private pilot.
I absolutely love this natural and friendly feeling you give while talking during your videos! It makes it easier to understand and sometimes funny too ! :) Keep going Mike, you’re making a wonderful job :D
@@murrayvryer5994 I especially like that he makes the effort to dress sharply for his videos. It makes his videos feel like a kind of occasion. That also shows respect for his audience, as well as the age old tradition of seafaring. Makes me feel like I'm about to board Titanic. I love it.
THAT'S IT!!!!!!! I have an old Entex model kit of the QE2 that has been on my "to build" stack for decades. It's sitting there because I remember seeing a large poster of the QE2 when she was first launched. Her waterline color was this beautiful medium blue. That is how I want to do my model kit. But that was the only picture I ever saw of it, the kit instructions give the red anti-fouling color. I wrote to Cunard, I searched old magazines and books, but I could never find it. Some, including a polite customer relations person even insinuated that I was "daft" and the QE2 NEVER had a blue waterline. But there it is. You found a picture of it! I'm not nutz! Now I just need to find out what that color is called or get a paint chip to try to mix and match it. THANK YOU! It's nice to know that I'm not totally "balmy".
Interesting. I used to make resin kits of anime characters 20 or so years ago but I always used expensive craft paints and made all the mixes myself especially due to the luster it gives. Working in wheel repair enlightened me a bit more about the process as well as clearcoating. Also, wheels have more flakes in the paint so it was a very learning experience. I was wondering what your process was and I'm sure you would do things differently now than you did back then.
isn't it nice when a penny drops out of the heavens and answers a question you had for most of your life? for me it was finding out that basic cola flavor is lime plus cinnamon i would think it's very likely the color on QE2 was "royal blue"
@@konlee4456 building anime garage kits is a lot different from building ship, plane, and other military garage kits or model kits. Often times this is because paint companies will release a model paint that is an exact 100% match to the color actually used on these vehicles. You can only really tell so much from photos, and unless you get a chance to see the paint in real life, there's no way to get it 100% accurate from photos alone. That's why people usually get premixed colors, for accuracy.
This was a very interesting video about the red we find below ships waterlines. Thank you. One small point about venetian red, it is a pigment which does not dye fabric. I believe that the British used madder initially for their red uniforms, and later when it became available in the mid 19th century, alizarin. Another antifouling paint that turns up, and may explain the choices of green on some of the ships you showed, was copper acetoarsenite or a variation of emerald green, Paris Green etc. Thar pigment contains copper and arsenic and is very effective at reducing biogrowth below the waterline. Thanks again for the great videos.
Here's one reference about madder vs. cochineal. "For reds, they use cochineal and madder. Hamrick says that both dyes were used to put the red in Redcoats. The British government supplied their soldiers' with uniforms that were dyed with madder because it was cheaper. Officers, who supplied their own uniforms, preferred the brighter red of cochineal for their jackets. Cochineal's primary customers were the fabric dyers, but the little dried bugs had value to other professions." The Spanish kept the secret of cochineal for a long time.
There’s another quote from Venetian Red page on wiki, supporting the opposite: During the English Civil War (1642-1651), Venetian red was adopted as the primary uniform colour of the New Model Army, to ease mutual identification on the battlefield. In addition, Venetian red was cheaper than other dyes at the time. Following the war, this practice was continued by the British Army, giving its soldiers the nickname "Redcoats", during the 18th and 19th centuries.
I've been following you for years and remember when you were like a dear caught in the headlights. Your honest confidence, along with your glorious clear speech and accent, make you a real joy to listen to. Every cruise company, and especially Cunard, should hire you as a spokesperson. If it has your confident support, I would trust it implicitly.
Thanks for another wonderful video! One thing I learned from Grady on practical engineering is that if something is merely for aesthetics it's called paint. If it serves other purposes including protection of the surface beneath it's called a coating. Looks like anti foul is a coating and boot topping is a paint.
One thing I always wondered is how they got rid of ashes and dust from boiler rooms when they burned coal. And whether they had to periodically clean the insides of boilers and funnels from soot as with house chimneys. That would make a great video.
For the boilers themselves (for old-school hand-fired ones at least), the firemen would rake/scrape out the ashes from the furnaces and dump them in piles for the trimmers to take to the ash ejectors, where they dumped them into a stream of water to be ejected over the side. Not sure what they did for the funnels/uptakes though.
I can tell you that on Titanic and similar ships of the time they used something called ash ejectors. They were essentially pipes with a jet of water rushing through that you'd dump coal ash into via a special opening, then the ash would mix with the water and get ejected from the side of the ship. Titanic also had hoists to haul the ash to rooms called "ash places" where it was supposed to be dumped out a door into waiting barges. The latter was supposed to be used in ports instead of the ejectors due to pollution concerns. (You can see all of this equipment and related spaces in Demo 401 from THG/VDR).
If you burn the boilers properly, then there's very little soot generated. It's like the misconception that steam trains always create a large smoke trail. While they actually burn very cleanly and have barely visible smoke. So if you see a smoke trail, it's just for you: The viewer.
@stephenlawson2546. Carbolic acid is weakly acidic and water soluble. Extracted from coal tar instead of coal dust. Coal tar is made through the coking process that occurs in the absence of oxygen. Coal fired steamships used air to fire their boilers.
I love this channel, there's always something interesting to learn; either near-hardcore engineering specifications of past ships or simply why ships have certain flags, all taught in an easy to understand way
Excellent content as always Mike. I just want to add a sidenote that, although this “redness” may apply to commercial shipping, it doesn’t necessarily apply to warships. In our research at the HMS Hood Association for instance, we found that Hood (1920-1941) NEVER had a red bottom. It was either grey or possibly black (and still is). It was applied in layers of two protective undercoats followed by an outermost antifouling layer. The boot topping was also multilayered (glossy black outermost). Others have conducted in-depth research and found that grey and black were more common (on British warships at least) than previously assumed. Again, not really pertinent here, but thought it might interest you.
I was a submariner in the US Navy. Our submarines were painted completely black (seawater more than 30 feet/10 meters deep is opaque), No red paint at all.
Fred Olsen's sister ships Blenheim and Breamar, launched 1951 and '52 respectively, had green paint at the waterline. I wonder if you would consider doing a video on these two venerable North Sea passenger and cargo ships that each served about four decades on the Newcastle/Oslo route. I sailed on both in the 1960s and early '70s. Lovely little ships that were shipshape rather than ferry-shaped, and the cars were lowered into the hold with a crane! Like a fully formed but miniature trans-Atlantic liner! I really enjoy your videos! Best wishes from George
Some Italian battleships had green hulls below the waterline. Also the lower hull on HMS hood was a sort of greyish green rather than red or bright green
Modern antifoul is designed to shed the uppermost layer of the antifoul as the hull moves through the water, preventing marine growth from forming. These coatings are called Self Polishing Coplymers (SPC). The major downfall of these coatings is that if applied to a hull that does not move for some time, then marine growth will develop.
More particularly, the cost of the paint is more than made up for in the fuel savings and the transit times. It makes the ships more efficient and thus more economical to operate and that means you and I pay less to have goods and people ferried across the ocean.
One of the real reasons is this that and it was cheap to make it from iron oxide dust and coal tar. Shippings always been about costs, something often forgotten today.
I once knew a man in the defence industry who got started developing naval technology like hull paint for the RN in the late 70s and early 80s. He and his team took awhile, but they found the Holy Grail of hull paint. It was low in toxicity but highly effective against marine life attaching to it (Environmental concerns then were the big push for a new paint as most hull paint's anti-fouling effectiveness comes from being too toxic for marine life to tolerate, but that results in harbours becoming environmental nightmares as paint sloughs off, especially busy places like Portsmouth), cheap and it lasted a long while on a ship's hull. The only downside was the paint's colour was hot pink. The RN took one look at the colour and outright rejected it.
If this is true, that would be a big fat target for any enemy forces. While it was a good idea, the color was rejected for practical reasons for warfare. Still a funny story. XD
@@saberconvoyaviation8674 it was the hull paint, the part under the water. The reason it was rejected wasn't just that it was an awful colour but because it wasn't the traditional red hull paint the RN sticks to.
The Battleship New Jersey TH-cam channel also recently did an episode on below waterline coatings, as part of their discussion of their upcoming drydock effort. This video is a perfect complement to that!
My grandfather, a dock worker, "acquired" some of this red anti-fouling paint and brought it home to paint his house. It didn't weather well; over the years it chipped and flaked off. It wasn't designed to be applied to wood I guess.
I have never given any thought to this subject, but now that you mention it, all of my model ships have a dark-red hull below the waterline. Now it all makes sense! 😊
Not really, costs were often the real reason that ships were red and black those colours can be made with cheap iron oxide and coal tar paints to cover rust.
I enjoy your slightly skewed take, on something you obviously love, and Because of that love. You've learnt more and taught more on the history of shipping than I know and I come from seaside village. Thanks for reminding me of this story. I remember being hired to paint antifouling on the trawler a friend of my brother's build in the back garden. Getting it out was, mmm, interesting and expensive. His son is the skipper of the third iteration of The Queen of Rottingdean. That's what myself and my friends called the first one.
My husband and I greatly enjoy your content! ❤ we have learned so much from this channel. it’s been a joy each time time a new video comes out! Keep up the wonderful work Mr. Brady! 🚢
Great video as usual Mike. I remember doing a dry-docking on a RO/Ro Container vessel in Ulsan years ago and the anti fouling was Self Polishing Copolymer which has originally been blue but with the motion of the ship through the water at high speed - 23 Knots - had over time polished to white and it was as smooth as a mirror with absolutely no growth on it. Of course SPC I think had huge amount of tin in it which killed everything in the water so it was banned eventually. Two years later we docked the ship in the same place, blasted everything off and painted her undersides red with environmentally friendly paint. (it wasn't as good!!)
Thanks again Mike. I loved the bits when you were self mocking about finding it fascinating. It's the Little things like that which make you come across as " your friend, Mike Brady" &, makes you a joy to watch and listen to. Many thanks from Oxfordshire. ( UK).
Does Venetian Red anti-fouling paint have any relation to blaze-orange and the coloring used on the Golden Gate Bridge? (I've always thought they felt very, very similar.) Awesome video, great info, and straight to the point, with lots of nice historical context to substantiate your point. Videos like this are why I subscribed to your channel! It's nice to finally have an answer as to why anti-fouling paints always seem to be _so_ thick in consistency; because they're meant to function as a whole separate protective coating that will seal up every potential point of rust. Happy New Year, Oceanliner Designs!
Nope, that color was just a design choice and the paint was a normal lead-based paint (the original paint is no longer there and has been replaced though).
If you want to see it irl, it's easiest if you watch empty bulk carriers enter Newcastle etc. The freeboard is high & [dirty] red. Then she settles maybe 8m as she loads, the red freeboard almost disappears. Thanks Skipper. _Fun factoid: Rust is often called "tin worm", a call-back to our friend wood worm._
Excellent and interesting short. Copper has the additional advantage of toxicity to marine life (its used chemically in anti-fouling paints) so plating isn't just a physical barrier, it slows and reduces growth. Concrete slipways are often treated with copper sulfate.
Great video, Mike! Though I'm still waiting for a dedicated video about Brunel's three ships! S.S. Great Britain, S.S. Great Western and the S.S. Great Eastern. They're each super interesting ships and very important to the history of the ocean liner and ships in general! Maybe I'm a little biased, I get to see the S.S. Great Britain everyday!
They really took “I painted my car red, therefore it’s faster” to an entirely new level, Cunard even went a step above the rest and added a striped line, because everyone knows “racing stripes make you even faster” lol In all seriousness though, I adore the channel and I’m always excited to see a new video, I’ve been keeping up with the videos for awhile and I hope to see more! I’ve been a maritime nerd most of my life and I always learn just a little more by tuning in~
The advent of modern epoxy coatings really changed how ships weather over time. I worked on the water for 4 decades and when I first started in the 70's, a 30 year old ship really was a rust bucket. Once they started coating them with epoxy paint, they stayed nice. It was really in the late 70's and beyond that it became commonplace. As you stay in your piece, you can make it any color, but I'm glad that tradition keeps it red. A side note, the bilges are also often coated a flat red as well.
Before the 70s coal tar paint was the norm because it was cheap but it would ablate (fall off) a lot easier, after cheap epoxy paint showed up (it took 20 years to make it cheap) it stopped rust better so it was used
@@ironhell813 I'm not sure if I'd think of it as cheap. It's been some years but I remember reading that ship coating could be as much as 10% of the cost of the ship. Also you see the outside, but the insides of all the tanks and ship interiors, stairwells etcs, it's quite a volume. I also remember being on an assist tug when removing a ship from an old graving dock and on the way out, the hull scraped on so unfendered part of the dock and though the coating was scraped, it didn't go all the way through the coating. There's also a schedule of measuring the thickness of the coating that the yard applies to make sure that meets spec. When done right, it's worth the cost.
@@musoangelo I think over time if the yard doesn’t strip the previous coating off it’ll build a shell of sorts making the coating tougher. Maybe another money saving solution?
Awesome video, I learned so much. I loved each side-fact. Like the copper plating is what's left in some shipwrecks, or the red color used by the british for their famous redcoats. It reminds me of Vsauce, and how he asks a question but takes various detours to explain and teach about other stuff before answering the question.
I work for a company, American Chemet, that produces Cuprous Oxide (Cu2O), which is a copper oxide that when mixed with a binder produces natural anti-fouling paint for ships. Spoiler alert - it's red in color because of the copper. We also produce a low tint strength "Lolo Tint" Cuprous Oxide that is purplish in color, that takes well to being dyed other colors. That is used in everything from 'Battleship Gray' paint that the Navy uses to bright white yacht paint.
Organic biocide like Arsenic? It is a constant battle for boat and ship owners these days. My boat has a sonic system that is supposed to reduce the growth of stuff on the hull. But I still pay divers to go down and clean it. I'm getting it hauled out this month, so we will see how effective the sonic system has been.
We need to dip every Michigan motor vehicle in Venetian Red!...wait, arsenic? 😮 I live in the American Rust Belt, btw. We've been looking for decent rust-proofing for ages 😂
Nice! interesting video, thanks. An old fisherman once told when I was a kid and I asked why the hulls were red, that they were painted red so the whales don´t confuse the hull of a boat with another whale. Also nowadays commercial vessels use a special silicone paint, that is only applied every 5 years if in good condition. This silicone paint main 2 properties are that any marine growth finds it harder to stick to the hull, and reduces the drag coefficient considerably reducing fuel consumption and increasing speed as a thin layer of water sticks to the hull and moves with the ship, so instead of paint/water friction when the vessel is sailing, it´s water/water friction, which is lesser. Not sure if I have explained myself correctly (lol)
Not an ocean liner, but HMS Hoods hull was painted grey with a black boot topping. This was only recently discovered as someone found the yard paperwork for her going back many years that the antifouling paint was grey.
That was me. Yes, we found her docking reports and they did indeed specify grey at various intervals. They also clarified that she only used coatings from a specific manufacturer (Peacocks and Buchan). Other researchers (real ones, not Hood-only part-timers like me) determined that said company only provided grey and black to the RN. In the end, it helped explain some things that had always bothered us: anecdotes we’d heard (and previously dismissed!) from old timers (dock hands), sinking descriptions of the bow and of course, the stern of the wreck. We had previously (wrongly) assumed it must have been “standard” red. There’s a great article about it on Sovereign Hobbies’ website I believe. We also have a link to this from the HMS Hood Association site’s paint schemes article.
I have to say that was one of the smoothest, cleanest intro/transitions I’ve seen in a while. I’m a longtime viewer and big fan! Keep up the amazing work! ❤❤
If I have learned anything from a great many tropes, red makes things go faster. That's the real (and very secretive) reason why ships are painted red. 😁
The RN in the WWII tended to alternate between red and dark gray anti fouling paint, probably to make it easier for workers to keep track of what had been painted when they were applying a new layer.
Great video as usual! There was a scientific study that showed certain anti-foul paints were causing oysters to gender swap. I can't remember the specifics but I'm sure this will encourage some further comments!
@@blueyes6474'R more "t-gs" east coasters? wHose ever heard of exported from California to the us of the rest of USA's citizen-pallets of Abalone. Not bull-only?
Melbourne's weather might be unpredictable, but it doesn't hold a candle to Texas weather. One minute is 70° F, the next it's 50°F lol. Great and informative video as always!
😂😅😊I've lived in 17 different places throughout my life and every single one of them thinks they have the most unpredictable weather. It's a strange obsession to be proud of.
Maybe someone just placed the same thought, but always thought the red color undership was meant to be the best color to stay visible when the ship Capsizes bottom up at full sea. Thanks for your explanation 👍
You're timing on this video is fantastic, was watching some of Battleship New Jersey's newer videos and they were discussing putting new antifouling on her hull and only said it was more than paint and was a complex system to keep buildup off the hull, but now I know, thanks.
I was in the US Navy from 1972 till 1978. The ship I was on went into drydock for hull refit. After the shipyard had removed all the old paint, it was down to bare, shiny steel. They then painted it grey, then yellow, then blue, then back to grey, and finished it off with red.
I don't care at all for ships, but I have never been so engaged in a video on TH-cam. This was excellent and gave me a new appreciation for shipping. Thank you!
The TH-cam channel of my dreams! Since 5th grade I had an obsession with titanic and infrastructure .. engineering and always a deep love for history. I love yesterday today, architectural digest and BIM all my loves come together here. Thank you ! Awesome video.
I actually learned this on my own a few years ago from a Captain's Q&A on a cruise. But I didn't know about the formulas or how older ships combated marine growth. Well done again man
Hi, Mike, just a slight correction, Salt water is actually very good for the wood in sailing ships, it keeps it from rotting and keeps the hull planks swelled and water-tight. Fresh water like rain rots the wood, as it wets and then dries out repeatedly, causing cracking and leaks. Otherwise I love your videos, you present them very well, and you are always interesting and informative. Thank you.
Wonderful video full of history &science. Now I can have yet another piece of conversational information to tell whilst having a beer in some future port of call.
I knew all this beforehand. Still fascinating to me as for its origins-I grew up a Northern California native and was fascinated with the San Fransisco Golden Gate Bridge and its distinctive color. Since it was built it always used that antifouling paint scheme and sometime in the mid 80's they tried a grey color that made many photographers wail in protest-Just rambling here-Thank you Mike and thank your crew for me for bringing yet another informative slick vid.You rock brother!
3:29 the Cutty Sark clipper, I was part of the team that stripped and rebuilt it, grew up in London, so when the opportunity to repair an icon of my childhood came about I jumped at it and loved every single day I worked on that ship.
Since insurance rates for shipping were based on the quality of their hull, and copper clad hulls were rated the highest, a "copper bottom deal" was considered one of the best and safest business deals you could make.
I always enjoy your videos, thank you so much. They are informative and, at least to me, informative and interesting. And I love your comment in this one about here's something interesting.... At least to me. There's a family joke tied into that but I'll spare you! Thanks again. David
this was in my suggested, I never wondered why ships are painted red but you did a fascinating job in explaining and hey don't worry about ranting about other stuff like ships being copper plated keep up the good work
the touch of a humble, "at least, I think it is" is so pure, and I love it. I wouldn't care about any of these topics if it wasn't told by a man so enthusiastic about it.
This is one of the most important subjects you could bring up. Being a marine machinist and serving on ships. Corrosion is a constant battle if it doesn't grow out side the hull. Grows inside the plumbing. Wrong material can rust away in hours. It is the biggest pain the ass. Thanks
How do you protect the plumbing and intakes? I’m guessing you have to constantly maintain all this too?
I'm guessing your on about the water that comes in through the sea chests? How do you deal with that internally. Especially since you can't see in to the pipe work to check, at least not without taking it offline and dismantling it?
It even goes far more than that. Growth inside the fire main plumbing. Inside the fresh water tanks @@mikeh2006 Inside voids in the hull etc etc.
In some infrastructure projects like big bridges electricity is used to corrode a special replaceable part that would take on itself the most of corrosion that otherwise would naturally attacked the bridge’s actual body. Maybe something like this is used on ships?
In line Anode pencils@@springbok4015
Just called my dad. For 50 years, he was a large ship builder. He say that there are green, gray, blue ones now. And explained everything you said here as well. This video is spot on!!!
Did he work on aircraft carriers?
ASK IF HE KNOWS THE GREASED STICK MARKING FOR INSPECTED AND PASSED STEEL HULLED WARTIMES SHIPS? whoooo ! Was " Kilroy was here?"
@@georgedunkelberg5004are you okay??
@@wickitklown90
@@wickitklown90
"Once for dust, twice for rust" is a joke we use in the navy for painting
Yes sir 😂
And the last part, three times over a hole
Nice
Fascinating--I had no idea! Fun fact--my husband was a pilot, and he said that red is one of the few colors they don't usually use heavily on aircraft because it tends to weigh just a little bit more than the other colors, and every ounce of weight counts in the air.
This was the reason, why, a few launches in, the Space Shuttle program switched from a thermally-reflective bright-white paint on the main fuel tank (to keep the hydrogen and LOX colder) to an unpainted orange... in practice the weight savings due to eliminating the paint were greater than the thermal evaporation losses.
@@tmorganrileyThat's exactly what I thought of.
I heard the white paint weighed 500 pounds.
12-year Aircraft carrier builder here, I saw your comment. I didn't know this was a thing till I started in the industry. Now I can take this back to my job. Was your husband a naval man?
@@wickitklown90 no, but his dad was army Air Force in WW2 , and then started a crop dusting business after the war, and he flew for his dad’s business, commercially a bit, and for a long time as a private pilot.
"Cheap" is relative in boat world. Quality copper infused antifouling bottom paint is $100-$120 a gallon.
I absolutely love this natural and friendly feeling you give while talking during your videos! It makes it easier to understand and sometimes funny too ! :)
Keep going Mike, you’re making a wonderful job :D
I agree! Exceptional presentation.
@@murrayvryer5994 I especially like that he makes the effort to dress sharply for his videos. It makes his videos feel like a kind of occasion. That also shows respect for his audience, as well as the age old tradition of seafaring. Makes me feel like I'm about to board Titanic. I love it.
@@Renee_R343😅
THAT'S IT!!!!!!! I have an old Entex model kit of the QE2 that has been on my "to build" stack for decades. It's sitting there because I remember seeing a large poster of the QE2 when she was first launched. Her waterline color was this beautiful medium blue. That is how I want to do my model kit. But that was the only picture I ever saw of it, the kit instructions give the red anti-fouling color. I wrote to Cunard, I searched old magazines and books, but I could never find it. Some, including a polite customer relations person even insinuated that I was "daft" and the QE2 NEVER had a blue waterline.
But there it is. You found a picture of it! I'm not nutz! Now I just need to find out what that color is called or get a paint chip to try to mix and match it. THANK YOU! It's nice to know that I'm not totally "balmy".
Interesting. I used to make resin kits of anime characters 20 or so years ago but I always used expensive craft paints and made all the mixes myself especially due to the luster it gives. Working in wheel repair enlightened me a bit more about the process as well as clearcoating. Also, wheels have more flakes in the paint so it was a very learning experience. I was wondering what your process was and I'm sure you would do things differently now than you did back then.
Build it?
isn't it nice when a penny drops out of the heavens and answers a question you had for most of your life? for me it was finding out that basic cola flavor is lime plus cinnamon
i would think it's very likely the color on QE2 was "royal blue"
@@konlee4456 building anime garage kits is a lot different from building ship, plane, and other military garage kits or model kits. Often times this is because paint companies will release a model paint that is an exact 100% match to the color actually used on these vehicles. You can only really tell so much from photos, and unless you get a chance to see the paint in real life, there's no way to get it 100% accurate from photos alone. That's why people usually get premixed colors, for accuracy.
This was a very interesting video about the red we find below ships waterlines. Thank you. One small point about venetian red, it is a pigment which does not dye fabric. I believe that the British used madder initially for their red uniforms, and later when it became available in the mid 19th century, alizarin. Another antifouling paint that turns up, and may explain the choices of green on some of the ships you showed, was copper acetoarsenite or a variation of emerald green, Paris Green etc. Thar pigment contains copper and arsenic and is very effective at reducing biogrowth below the waterline. Thanks again for the great videos.
Here's one reference about madder vs. cochineal.
"For reds, they use cochineal and madder. Hamrick says that both dyes were used to put the red in Redcoats. The British government supplied their soldiers' with uniforms that were dyed with madder because it was cheaper. Officers, who supplied their own uniforms, preferred the brighter red of cochineal for their jackets.
Cochineal's primary customers were the fabric dyers, but the little dried bugs had value to other professions."
The Spanish kept the secret of cochineal for a long time.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochineal0
but then cochineal ended up in cosmetics, lipstick, anything that needed a red coloring. pigments in manuscripts@@kasplat5874
There’s another quote from Venetian Red page on wiki, supporting the opposite:
During the English Civil War (1642-1651), Venetian red was adopted as the primary uniform colour of the New Model Army, to ease mutual identification on the battlefield. In addition, Venetian red was cheaper than other dyes at the time. Following the war, this practice was continued by the British Army, giving its soldiers the nickname "Redcoats", during the 18th and 19th centuries.
Arsenic?😂
I've been following you for years and remember when you were like a dear caught in the headlights. Your honest confidence, along with your glorious clear speech and accent, make you a real joy to listen to. Every cruise company, and especially Cunard, should hire you as a spokesperson. If it has your confident support, I would trust it implicitly.
Cunard has long since been bought out by Royal Caribbean. Cunard used to operate under its name but has since acquiesced to the pages of time.
I wish I could meet Mike one day. He’s like my mentor. He’s one of the reasons I got into maritime history.
ME THREE!
Wow that's really weird he seems really not genuine to me, always gives me a chuckle when he uses the word friend in his intro.
Thanks for another wonderful video!
One thing I learned from Grady on practical engineering is that if something is merely for aesthetics it's called paint. If it serves other purposes including protection of the surface beneath it's called a coating. Looks like anti foul is a coating and boot topping is a paint.
That is not quite correct.
Paint is any coating that has pigment added to it, so the addition of Sienna Red makes it an "Anti-fouling Paint"
Thanks for the correction, @@justbecauseOK 😁
@@WatchmakerErik 👍
One thing I always wondered is how they got rid of ashes and dust from boiler rooms when they burned coal. And whether they had to periodically clean the insides of boilers and funnels from soot as with house chimneys. That would make a great video.
For the boilers themselves (for old-school hand-fired ones at least), the firemen would rake/scrape out the ashes from the furnaces and dump them in piles for the trimmers to take to the ash ejectors, where they dumped them into a stream of water to be ejected over the side. Not sure what they did for the funnels/uptakes though.
I can tell you that on Titanic and similar ships of the time they used something called ash ejectors. They were essentially pipes with a jet of water rushing through that you'd dump coal ash into via a special opening, then the ash would mix with the water and get ejected from the side of the ship. Titanic also had hoists to haul the ash to rooms called "ash places" where it was supposed to be dumped out a door into waiting barges. The latter was supposed to be used in ports instead of the ejectors due to pollution concerns. (You can see all of this equipment and related spaces in Demo 401 from THG/VDR).
If you burn the boilers properly, then there's very little soot generated. It's like the misconception that steam trains always create a large smoke trail.
While they actually burn very cleanly and have barely visible smoke. So if you see a smoke trail, it's just for you: The viewer.
They dumped them in the ocean. Which lead to cabalic acid in the water killing the fish.
@stephenlawson2546. Carbolic acid is weakly acidic and water soluble. Extracted from coal tar instead of coal dust. Coal tar is made through the coking process that occurs in the absence of oxygen. Coal fired steamships used air to fire their boilers.
I love this channel, there's always something interesting to learn; either near-hardcore engineering specifications of past ships or simply why ships have certain flags, all taught in an easy to understand way
I never realised how interesting this stuff was. I think it is your presentation and knowledge that has roped me in.
Excellent content as always Mike. I just want to add a sidenote that, although this “redness” may apply to commercial shipping, it doesn’t necessarily apply to warships. In our research at the HMS Hood Association for instance, we found that Hood (1920-1941) NEVER had a red bottom. It was either grey or possibly black (and still is). It was applied in layers of two protective undercoats followed by an outermost antifouling layer. The boot topping was also multilayered (glossy black outermost). Others have conducted in-depth research and found that grey and black were more common (on British warships at least) than previously assumed. Again, not really pertinent here, but thought it might interest you.
Huh, interesting, and why does that happen ? And exclusively on Royal Navy warships too ?
Google US Navy warship hull color and you'll be surprised
Way to tear him apart damn
Red is too easy to be seen and is just a commercial tactic to hide rust on poorly maintained ships, the navy never has that issue…
I was a submariner in the US Navy. Our submarines were painted completely black (seawater more than 30 feet/10 meters deep is opaque), No red paint at all.
Fred Olsen's sister ships Blenheim and Breamar, launched 1951 and '52 respectively, had green paint at the waterline.
I wonder if you would consider doing a video on these two venerable North Sea passenger and cargo ships that each served about four decades on the Newcastle/Oslo route. I sailed on both in the 1960s and early '70s. Lovely little ships that were shipshape rather than ferry-shaped, and the cars were lowered into the hold with a crane! Like a fully formed but miniature trans-Atlantic liner!
I really enjoy your videos!
Best wishes from George
Some Italian battleships had green hulls below the waterline.
Also the lower hull on HMS hood was a sort of greyish green rather than red or bright green
SS Batory also had green paint.
Ask any Bo'sons Mate who eternally fought Naval rusts, it ai'nt cat-syrup! "If it doesn't move, PAINT IT!
Modern antifoul is designed to shed the uppermost layer of the antifoul as the hull moves through the water, preventing marine growth from forming. These coatings are called Self Polishing Coplymers (SPC). The major downfall of these coatings is that if applied to a hull that does not move for some time, then marine growth will develop.
They’re called ablative coatings because it’s ablating as it’s being worn off
Cant imagine thats healthy for the ocean
So, in short, they are painted red because it makes them go faster.
... Yes.
More particularly, the cost of the paint is more than made up for in the fuel savings and the transit times. It makes the ships more efficient and thus more economical to operate and that means you and I pay less to have goods and people ferried across the ocean.
Never thought about this, now I will check all paintings of ships, lol
Then they added a ‘go even faster’ white stripe
An orc wrote this comment :)
that was me, i told them to paint them red
I'm surprised; I'd have thought the paint was red because it included red lead to prevent rust, not venitian red, I've learned something new :)
One of the real reasons is this that and it was cheap to make it from iron oxide dust and coal tar. Shippings always been about costs, something often forgotten today.
I once knew a man in the defence industry who got started developing naval technology like hull paint for the RN in the late 70s and early 80s.
He and his team took awhile, but they found the Holy Grail of hull paint. It was low in toxicity but highly effective against marine life attaching to it (Environmental concerns then were the big push for a new paint as most hull paint's anti-fouling effectiveness comes from being too toxic for marine life to tolerate, but that results in harbours becoming environmental nightmares as paint sloughs off, especially busy places like Portsmouth), cheap and it lasted a long while on a ship's hull. The only downside was the paint's colour was hot pink.
The RN took one look at the colour and outright rejected it.
Now who doesn't want a hot pink ship for the Navy? 😂
If this is true, that would be a big fat target for any enemy forces. While it was a good idea, the color was rejected for practical reasons for warfare. Still a funny story. XD
@@saberconvoyaviation8674 it was the hull paint, the part under the water. The reason it was rejected wasn't just that it was an awful colour but because it wasn't the traditional red hull paint the RN sticks to.
@nektulosnewbie but the RN doesn't use red paint. Could they not put a black pigment in it....
Thats a shame. Im all for not poisoning the ocean any more than we have to
The Battleship New Jersey TH-cam channel also recently did an episode on below waterline coatings, as part of their discussion of their upcoming drydock effort. This video is a perfect complement to that!
My grandfather, a dock worker, "acquired" some of this red anti-fouling paint and brought it home to paint his house. It didn't weather well; over the years it chipped and flaked off. It wasn't designed to be applied to wood I guess.
Red absorbs a lot of UV
yeah, but i bet his house didn't have any barnacles on it
Mike - an informative and fascinating video - as always. Thank you and Happy New Year!
Another great documentary Mike! Cheers from Texas!
I have never given any thought to this subject, but now that you mention it, all of my model ships have a dark-red hull below the waterline. Now it all makes sense! 😊
Not really, costs were often the real reason that ships were red and black those colours can be made with cheap iron oxide and coal tar paints to cover rust.
@@ironhell813 That's exactly what the video said.
@@kentslocum you sure? I watched it and it didn’t mention coal tar….
@@ironhell813 The video was about red paint below the waterline, not black paint above...
Anti fouling's colors are sales enhancements only!
I enjoy your slightly skewed take, on something you obviously love, and Because of that love. You've learnt more and taught more on the history of shipping than I know and I come from seaside village. Thanks for reminding me of this story.
I remember being hired to paint antifouling on the trawler a friend of my brother's build in the back garden. Getting it out was, mmm, interesting and expensive. His son is the skipper of the third iteration of The Queen of Rottingdean. That's what myself and my friends called the first one.
My husband and I greatly enjoy your content! ❤ we have learned so much from this channel. it’s been a joy each time time a new video comes out! Keep up the wonderful work Mr. Brady! 🚢
Because *RED GOES FASTA!*
😂😂😂 Ferrari red
So his opening, “is it just tradition!” Wasn’t wrong… just more complicated. Thank you for the clarification
Great video as usual Mike. I remember doing a dry-docking on a RO/Ro Container vessel in Ulsan years ago and the anti fouling was Self Polishing Copolymer which has originally been blue but with the motion of the ship through the water at high speed - 23 Knots - had over time polished to white and it was as smooth as a mirror with absolutely no growth on it. Of course SPC I think had huge amount of tin in it which killed everything in the water so it was banned eventually. Two years later we docked the ship in the same place, blasted everything off and painted her undersides red with environmentally friendly paint. (it wasn't as good!!)
The term 'copper bottomed' - meaning 'sound & reliable' dates back to the copper sheathing on a wooden ship's hull.
At least as far back as the Revolutionary war
Learning is fun!
Thanks again Mike. I loved the bits when you were self mocking about finding it fascinating. It's the Little things like that which make you come across as " your friend, Mike Brady" &, makes you a joy to watch and listen to. Many thanks from Oxfordshire. ( UK).
I love the class you always have in your videos.
Mike, nothing more fun than when you get "sidetracked, as usual". These captivating vignettes are just as much fun as your premier histories.
Does Venetian Red anti-fouling paint have any relation to blaze-orange and the coloring used on the Golden Gate Bridge? (I've always thought they felt very, very similar.) Awesome video, great info, and straight to the point, with lots of nice historical context to substantiate your point. Videos like this are why I subscribed to your channel! It's nice to finally have an answer as to why anti-fouling paints always seem to be _so_ thick in consistency; because they're meant to function as a whole separate protective coating that will seal up every potential point of rust.
Happy New Year, Oceanliner Designs!
Nope, that color was just a design choice and the paint was a normal lead-based paint (the original paint is no longer there and has been replaced though).
Cool, thanks for the info! ^-^ Happy New Year! @@lalaithan
It’s not the same paint but it was coloured for the same reasons: to hide rust and to
Make maintenance cheaper.
If you want to see it irl, it's easiest if you watch empty bulk carriers enter Newcastle etc. The freeboard is high & [dirty] red. Then she settles maybe 8m as she loads, the red freeboard almost disappears. Thanks Skipper.
_Fun factoid: Rust is often called "tin worm", a call-back to our friend wood worm._
Once again Mike brings us an education and informative video, in the best format possible. Bravo mike!
Brave voters of the Eisenhour eras staid the course to our present military-industrial-complex-oligarchy.
Excellent and interesting short. Copper has the additional advantage of toxicity to marine life (its used chemically in anti-fouling paints) so plating isn't just a physical barrier, it slows and reduces growth. Concrete slipways are often treated with copper sulfate.
Great video, Mike! Though I'm still waiting for a dedicated video about Brunel's three ships! S.S. Great Britain, S.S. Great Western and the S.S. Great Eastern. They're each super interesting ships and very important to the history of the ocean liner and ships in general!
Maybe I'm a little biased, I get to see the S.S. Great Britain everyday!
SS Great Britain at 5:44 I live literally next door to it.
They really took “I painted my car red, therefore it’s faster” to an entirely new level, Cunard even went a step above the rest and added a striped line, because everyone knows “racing stripes make you even faster” lol
In all seriousness though, I adore the channel and I’m always excited to see a new video, I’ve been keeping up with the videos for awhile and I hope to see more! I’ve been a maritime nerd most of my life and I always learn just a little more by tuning in~
PUT 'YOUR' SKIN IN THE "GAME"......Join a navy and see the world.
The advent of modern epoxy coatings really changed how ships weather over time. I worked on the water for 4 decades and when I first started in the 70's, a 30 year old ship really was a rust bucket. Once they started coating them with epoxy paint, they stayed nice. It was really in the late 70's and beyond that it became commonplace. As you stay in your piece, you can make it any color, but I'm glad that tradition keeps it red. A side note, the bilges are also often coated a flat red as well.
Before the 70s coal tar paint was the norm because it was cheap but it would ablate (fall off) a lot easier, after cheap epoxy paint showed up (it took 20 years to make it cheap) it stopped rust better so it was used
@@ironhell813 I'm not sure if I'd think of it as cheap. It's been some years but I remember reading that ship coating could be as much as 10% of the cost of the ship. Also you see the outside, but the insides of all the tanks and ship interiors, stairwells etcs, it's quite a volume. I also remember being on an assist tug when removing a ship from an old graving dock and on the way out, the hull scraped on so unfendered part of the dock and though the coating was scraped, it didn't go all the way through the coating. There's also a schedule of measuring the thickness of the coating that the yard applies to make sure that meets spec. When done right, it's worth the cost.
@@musoangelo I think over time if the yard doesn’t strip the previous coating off it’ll build a shell of sorts making the coating tougher. Maybe another money saving solution?
Amazing story! I long ago noticed the red but never knew why! Your channel is educational as well as entertaining! Thank you for the video!
Awesome video, I learned so much.
I loved each side-fact.
Like the copper plating is what's left in some shipwrecks, or the red color used by the british for their famous redcoats.
It reminds me of Vsauce, and how he asks a question but takes various detours to explain and teach about other stuff before answering the question.
ASK "the hows and whys of the Iron men and wooden ships' gun decks colors"? Puke! plus blood is slippery?
bucket the sands of those times so that no one slips slides away!
I work for a company, American Chemet, that produces Cuprous Oxide (Cu2O), which is a copper oxide that when mixed with a binder produces natural anti-fouling paint for ships. Spoiler alert - it's red in color because of the copper. We also produce a low tint strength "Lolo Tint" Cuprous Oxide that is purplish in color, that takes well to being dyed other colors. That is used in everything from 'Battleship Gray' paint that the Navy uses to bright white yacht paint.
I use Venetian red in my oil paintings. A little goes a long way. Great video!
I love how you look like you’re having the most fun making these videos!
Organic biocide like Arsenic? It is a constant battle for boat and ship owners these days. My boat has a sonic system that is supposed to reduce the growth of stuff on the hull. But I still pay divers to go down and clean it. I'm getting it hauled out this month, so we will see how effective the sonic system has been.
Fantastic work! It always a joy whenever you upload a new video
We need to dip every Michigan motor vehicle in Venetian Red!...wait, arsenic? 😮
I live in the American Rust Belt, btw. We've been looking for decent rust-proofing for ages 😂
Nice! interesting video, thanks. An old fisherman once told when I was a kid and I asked why the hulls were red, that they were painted red so the whales don´t confuse the hull of a boat with another whale.
Also nowadays commercial vessels use a special silicone paint, that is only applied every 5 years if in good condition. This silicone paint main 2 properties are that any marine growth finds it harder to stick to the hull, and reduces the drag coefficient considerably reducing fuel consumption and increasing speed as a thin layer of water sticks to the hull and moves with the ship, so instead of paint/water friction when the vessel is sailing, it´s water/water friction, which is lesser. Not sure if I have explained myself correctly (lol)
Not an ocean liner, but HMS Hoods hull was painted grey with a black boot topping. This was only recently discovered as someone found the yard paperwork for her going back many years that the antifouling paint was grey.
That was me. Yes, we found her docking reports and they did indeed specify grey at various intervals. They also clarified that she only used coatings from a specific manufacturer (Peacocks and Buchan). Other researchers (real ones, not Hood-only part-timers like me) determined that said company only provided grey and black to the RN. In the end, it helped explain some things that had always bothered us: anecdotes we’d heard (and previously dismissed!) from old timers (dock hands), sinking descriptions of the bow and of course, the stern of the wreck. We had previously (wrongly) assumed it must have been “standard” red. There’s a great article about it on Sovereign Hobbies’ website I believe. We also have a link to this from the HMS Hood Association site’s paint schemes article.
I have to say that was one of the smoothest, cleanest intro/transitions I’ve seen in a while. I’m a longtime viewer and big fan! Keep up the amazing work! ❤❤
Submarines can be coated pink..... Operation Petticoat!
I love getting stirred by INFO I didn't know or had not yet hazard a guess. Thank you!
If I have learned anything from a great many tropes, red makes things go faster. That's the real (and very secretive) reason why ships are painted red. 😁
No idea why this landed on my recomended page, but I really enjoyed your knowledge and tonality
Its not only red Italian warships in ww2 had green below waterline and with recent research and photos royal navy ships like Hood had dark grey
The RN in the WWII tended to alternate between red and dark gray anti fouling paint, probably to make it easier for workers to keep track of what had been painted when they were applying a new layer.
Oh, this was great! I enjoyed watching & learning!! Very informative & taught me about things I never knew! Thanks!
Great video as usual! There was a scientific study that showed certain anti-foul paints were causing oysters to gender swap. I can't remember the specifics but I'm sure this will encourage some further comments!
That’s so fascinating!
Transoysters 🤮
@@blueyes6474'R more "t-gs" east coasters? wHose ever heard of exported from California to the us of the rest of USA's citizen-pallets of Abalone. Not bull-only?
@@georgedunkelberg5004 are you having a stroke?
I heard they were using this paint on humanities university campuses
Melbourne's weather might be unpredictable, but it doesn't hold a candle to Texas weather. One minute is 70° F, the next it's 50°F lol. Great and informative video as always!
nah the uk got you all beat
Pretty sure upstate new York can give you a run for your money! Lol
20 degree swing....those are rookie numbers. Thats an average day in Minnesota
@@implodingbaby UK is pretty predictable.
😂😅😊I've lived in 17 different places throughout my life and every single one of them thinks they have the most unpredictable weather. It's a strange obsession to be proud of.
Can't get enough of these videos. I just wish the content was treated with adhesives so it would stick in my head. Thanks.
Maybe someone just placed the same thought, but always thought the red color undership was meant to be the best color to stay visible when the ship Capsizes bottom up at full sea. Thanks for your explanation 👍
Nope it’s one of the easiest and cheapest colours to
Make because it can be mixed from iron oxide and coal tar.
I didnt see the full video is that the only reason, if so, why not paint the entire ship?@@ironhell813
You're timing on this video is fantastic, was watching some of Battleship New Jersey's newer videos and they were discussing putting new antifouling on her hull and only said it was more than paint and was a complex system to keep buildup off the hull, but now I know, thanks.
I was in the US Navy from 1972 till 1978. The ship I was on went into drydock for hull refit. After the shipyard had removed all the old paint, it was down to bare, shiny steel. They then painted it grey, then yellow, then blue, then back to grey, and finished it off with red.
Red hides the rust it’s that simple.
Tradition with a dose of superstition I'll bet
Excellent Mr Brady. This is exactly what I signed up for. And again, I have resubscribed.
You always know how to make something that would normally be boring seem very interesting!
Hey Mike.. Love your videos man.. Top Quality and very enjoyable.. Cheers!!
I’m smarter now. Thank you.
You just could have stayed at
" HOLIDAY INN "
I don't care at all for ships, but I have never been so engaged in a video on TH-cam. This was excellent and gave me a new appreciation for shipping. Thank you!
“As unpredictable as Melb’s weather” - I hear you 😉😁
That was so interesting Mike- I have wondered this over time. Excellent video 😁
Definitely painted me a picture with this video. Very informative channel indeed.🎨 🚢😎👍💯
I totally enjoyed this video sir! Thank you for this wonderful information
Thanks for the back story! Great job as always.
The TH-cam channel of my dreams! Since 5th grade I had an obsession with titanic and infrastructure .. engineering and always a deep love for history. I love yesterday today, architectural digest and BIM all my loves come together here. Thank you ! Awesome video.
Good to see something actually informative on the internet well done mate
I actually learned this on my own a few years ago from a Captain's Q&A on a cruise. But I didn't know about the formulas or how older ships combated marine growth. Well done again man
Hi, Mike, just a slight correction, Salt water is actually very good for the wood in sailing ships, it keeps it from rotting and keeps the hull planks swelled and water-tight. Fresh water like rain rots the wood, as it wets and then dries out repeatedly, causing cracking and leaks. Otherwise I love your videos, you present them very well, and you are always interesting and informative. Thank you.
Wonderful video full of history &science. Now I can have yet another piece of conversational information to tell whilst having a beer in some future port of call.
Amazing. Loved it.
Subscribed !
In the US Navy we used to say “once over dust, twice over rust”.
I knew all this beforehand. Still fascinating to me as for its origins-I grew up a Northern California native and was fascinated with the San Fransisco Golden Gate Bridge and its distinctive color. Since it was built it always used that antifouling paint scheme and sometime in the mid 80's they tried a grey color that made many photographers wail in protest-Just rambling here-Thank you Mike and thank your crew for me for bringing yet another informative slick vid.You rock brother!
3:29 the Cutty Sark clipper, I was part of the team that stripped and rebuilt it, grew up in London, so when the opportunity to repair an icon of my childhood came about I jumped at it and loved every single day I worked on that ship.
Was quite entertaining to find out! Thanks!
What a fascinating video, really enjoyed this!
Since insurance rates for shipping were based on the quality of their hull, and copper clad hulls were rated the highest, a "copper bottom deal" was considered one of the best and safest business deals you could make.
What a delightful video, Mike. Well done!
This is fascinating! I've always been interested in the history of ships and I love your channel.
Ever since I've subscribed to your channel I'm becoming a scholar on Ocean liners past and present.
I always enjoy your videos, thank you so much. They are informative and, at least to me, informative and interesting. And I love your comment in this one about here's something interesting.... At least to me. There's a family joke tied into that but I'll spare you! Thanks again. David
how am i JUST finding your channel, oh, I'm in love, i've been missing out! sub
'If it moves, salute it. If it doesn't move, paint it.'
Really informative and easy going. Good stuff!
Interesting concise and built upon the title at the end! I really liked the production of the video.
That was fun to know and well presented. Loved the Melbourne weather joke.
this was in my suggested, I never wondered why ships are painted red but you did a fascinating job in explaining
and hey don't worry about ranting about other stuff like ships being copper plated
keep up the good work
Subscribed. I knew about a lot of this, but the presentation style is appealing.
Great, well put together and enjoyable, interesting piece. Thanks 🙂
the touch of a humble, "at least, I think it is" is so pure, and I love it. I wouldn't care about any of these topics if it wasn't told by a man so enthusiastic about it.
Super informative. Thanks for posting. 🇨🇦
Wow, mike, another wonderful video. I just love your channel so much.