Experimental Character Showcase - Alsaahir
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ส.ค. 2024
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Storyteller for this game: Ben Burns
Al vs Al character Sheet: botc-scripts.azurewebsites.ne...
Join us for the streams over at / thepandemoniuminstitute
Find out more at bloodontheclocktower.com/
Intro visuals created by Jon from Luke & Dad Productions / @vfx_jon
Intro music - Private Reflection by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
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Night Phase music - Time Passes by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
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Other music by Karl Casey @WhiteBatAudio
This video was edited and exported entirely using Lightworks
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0:00:00 - Intro & Character Explanation
0:12:09 - Night 1
0:18:18 - Day 1
0:32:30 - Night 2
0:38:58 - Day 2
0:54:29 - Night 3
0:58:28 - Day 3
1:12:21 - Night 4
1:15:30 - Day 4 - เกม
Entomologist here: bugs (including ants) are animals ✅
you sure they’re not fungi
Baker here, pretty sure Bugs (including Ants) are Yeast
@@DJDarkDarsi criminal investigator here, pretty sure bugs (including ants) are being thrown away for a very long time
@@manyplural4265 Programmer here. I think bugs (including ants) are actually features in disguise.
Tessa claims Entomologist but I think they're actually the Orthodontist ;)
I think a portion of the intro/character selection is repeated at 7:58.
It repeats twice actually
I thought I was going crazy there for a minute.
I just thought it was a really fast re-rack
*Wakes up*
-It was all a dream!
*Wakes up*
-It was all a dream!
To answer the question about how long it would take to brute force the Alsaahir.
Assuming the Alsaahir doesn't pick themselves it would take:
30 Days in a 7 player game
42 Days in an 8 player game
56 Days in a 9 player game
252 Days in a 10 player game
360 Days in a 11 player game
495 Days in a 12 player game
1980 Days in a 13 player game
2860 Days in a 14 player game
4004 Days in a 15 player game
There's a big jump at 10 and 13 players because the extra minions adds a lot of permutations
Might just add the Fiddler at that point I reckon.
It gets more complicated if you take into account that dead players can't be demons on subsequent days, ignoring star passes, and may have been guessed as demons as part of any number of permutations before they died. But yes, generally speaking "process of elimination" isn't going to work unless you're actually working with other game information to narrow down the evil team.
This gets a lot more complex with jumps, swaps and poison/drunkeness…
Anyone else here when the dash in the title’s in the wrong spot?
They're letting you know that there is an experimental character called "Showcase Alsaahir" but they aren't going to show off what it does.
Also when the setup plays twice for some reason
Yep still in wrong spot
@@Mythic_Menagerieomg thank you, I genuinely believed i had done something and/or was losing my mind
New townsfolk token: “Edd - you have the spy’s ability”
no answer on the most important questions
did the sega saturn live?
33:27, Ben doing the old "if you want to know something from the internet, don't ask a question but make a wrong statement"
Interesting how you integrate different cultures, and not just Western European culture into this game. I think I like it.
I wish they would talk about it, though, because otherwise I don't even know what it means or where it comes from. If someone in chat hadn't mentioned the sorcerer in Arabic, I wouldn't know.
That's the thing though, they're not doing it with the intention to educate people about all the cultures, it's still very white Euro centric way of "let's just include a few exotic things" but I think they don't know the depth of what they are borrowing, nor are they putting out that info. and when someone in the audience said the pronunciation is wrong, if that's the word they were intending, Ben just completely brushed it off instead of saying anything about it or finding out more about it
Man, Avery really impacted Day 1 by not giving the evil bounty hunter access to the evil team. >_
Still a fun game!!! Wish i saw the whole grim but oh well things happen
@@DakotaAvery23 Glad you enjoyed it. These things do happen. I haven't finished watching it yet, so I don't know how it came out. It'll be interesting to see how you and Sam and the others played. :)
Chat hammering Ben at the start 🤣🤣🤣
With the changed Balloonist they should really rewrite the character page on the site. The Tips and Tricks section still references the old ability.
There are 11 options for the demon and (10 choose 2) = 45 options for the minions, so a healthy and sober Alsaahir can force the game to end in at most 11*45 = 495 days.
until you have changing demons and minions! Good luck catching the Lil Monsta if it's been tossed around everywhere
Whoever was responsible for getting this video out must not have had the best day (incorrect dash placement in title, repeated section)
Happens
Why did they change the balloonist?
The old version, a single day of drunk/poisoned info trashes all of their info.
@@notsolm Also, the Balloonist now is useful past night 4 for long games, and you avoid the "meta" of when the demon is picked.
@TorIverWilhelmsen on its own, I don't think that would have warranted the change: there are plenty of first-night/single-use characters or characters that only come into play late in the game. It's the combination of the two that made it too easy to cripple the old balloonist. Sniping a night one character requires a lot of luck, catching a balloonist during the first 4 nights when you know the evil team is generally no harder than a coin-flip.
Does the Alsaahir have to guess which Riots, Legion, Spies, and Recluses are going to register as which of Minion or Demon or neither? For the Fang Gu does only the recreated Fang Gu need to be guessed or do you need to guess both Fang Gu?
A storyteller probably *could* rule it that way, but doing so would be...harsh.
I think I'd mostly ignore any non-mandatory registration for the Alsaahir.
Riots and Legions I imagine are all demons, so Alsaahir will have to guess multiple, Spy and Recluse are (as usual) you can but don't
You *must* guess Minions / Demons within the category that they *are*. That does mean the Alsaahir MUST indicate all Riot / Legion are Demon, with no minions.
You generally should not misregister Spy / Recluse as incorrect to the Alsaahir as it is pretty unfair for the Alsaahir player - however it is technically within the rules.
With Fang Gu, even the old Fang Gu must be guessed as a Demon as it is still on the Grimoire. A similar situation would be an evil Townsfolk being turned into a Minion by a Pit-Hag, the Alsaahir would have to guess that new Minion as a Minion within a guess to win.
Legion can register as minions I believe, right? So as long as every legion is guessed as demon or minion, it should work
@@SaeurLoser Moleoflands is correct here, Legion can be guessed as either minion or demon and register as the other for Alsaahir, and I would probably let that slide personally.
Nice of Ri to video in from THE GATES OF HEAVEN. some wild lighting there!
Another fantastic game, and new balloonist felt good!
So with the Alsaahir/vizier jinx. How does it work in a situation where there is doubt about the vizier? Maybe due to investigator/N1droison/pithag/amnesiac/alchemist. Specifically in regard to if the Alsaahir should know to guess demon type of not. Also if they do guess demon type when there isn't a vizier, does that ruins their guess? or does it still count since they are picking someone as a demon, when they pick them as "imp"?
To untangle that long string of x/y/z:
When an Alchemist has the Vizier ability all players learn they're the Alchemist ("who you are" not "that you are the Vizier"), so it's not unclear.
Investigator has nothing to do with this and is almost never going to see a vizier in a 2+ minion game unless any other choice completely solves the game d1.
Amnesiac is always weird, so accounting for it is basically impossible, just exercise the normal amount of ST caution with weird Amne stuff.
Now for the actually relevant bits:
Pithag creating a Vizier causes a public ping at Dawn, so no confusion, if a pithag removes a Vizier the Alsaahir will try to guess a Demon type. However, if they're wrong about the type the guess still goes through as game winning if the Evil Team constellation is correct because the Jinx stops being in play the second one of the relevant characters stops being in play.
N1D1 droison will cause malfunction while the Alsaahir still has to correctly guess the Demon type, but there is almost no Demon type info present by D1 so it's not something to worry about. But just for the sake of going through that: If I am the ST and the Vizier ain't pinging for whatever reason but the Alsaahir gets the team right I would rule on the side of the Alsaahir: Going by the info they have I'd grant the win and quickly roll up a new game. But that is fully a storyteller decision, you could always tell the room that "since the Viz can be droisoned on this script any Alsaahirs should always guess the Demon type, if it's not relevant I'll only count teams".
@@alchemicpink2392 An Alchemist-Vizier would get announced as the Vizier actually, whenever a token refers to "you" it means the character itself, another example would be a Philosopher-Nightwatchman telling their ping that they're the Nightwatchman, not the Philosopher. It's not official yet but they're working on adding the term "you" to the almanac.
@@miguel7888 That doesn't make any sense though. Neither the Alchemist nor the Philosopher change characters for their ability, their text reads "You have the ability of" not "You become".
why would the barber have a spot in the night order if the intention is to do it some other time?
As a reminder - to ensure the Storyteller remembers that a Barber who dies during the day has an effect at night. That's basically what the night order is for - to ensure we don't mess things up irreparably. - Ben
Could someone explain Ben's ooops night 1? Was it just that he forgot to add an evil townsfolk? Why did the dreamer need to be changed to the drunk?
Under the original setup, the bounty hunter was the drunk (which is why there was no evil townsfolk) and would need to be shown as such to the dreamer. Because Ben showed them as the Bounty Hunter, the setup was invalidated and required both the drunk to change AND an evil townsfolk to be created.
@@justini1212 thanks, I get it now!
The Dreamer gives two roles for their target - a good one and a bad one, one of which is their actual role. They targeted a person who was intended to be the drunk who sees themself as a bounty hunter, and thus should have seen drunk as the good option. Ben accidentally gave them Bounty Hunter, which is incorrect, as it isn't actually their role.
Samantha was the Drunk (the role) and Edd was sober, so he should have learned the Drunk and some evil role. Learning the (not in play) bounty hunter was a storyteller error.
Missed having Avery in games ^^
Come watch on sundays!!! (Ive missed being on Thursdays, too tho)
I've been watching too many of these videos lately, and been wondering if there'd be a way to set up a 100% full amnesia script, where nobody, not even evil, know their roles and what their powers do from the start, and need to learn and deduce in a fine line between being cagey and being forthcoming with information. I think the demon/amnesiac would find out quite quickly they're the demon, but it sounds still intriguing that they wouldn't know anything else for certain.
This exists and is quite popular in the homebrew scene. It's called 'Oops All Amnesiacs'. - Ben
With townsquare chatting during night, how do people not notice the Al-Hadikhia dissapear from the group chat right before the Al-Hadikhia choices are announced? I know you dont see the chat happens between ST and player, but you would notice them not being part of the chat.
You can't see who's in the chats at night, so any time you aren't actively talking in town square at night, you could be having an ST chat as far as anyone else knows. There's enough other people that you won't be talking the whole time. This has come up in other videos, where ST is like, "Come ooonnn, pick up, why aren't they answering my chat request?" and finally they join the ST chat and the player says "Sorry, I was in the middle of telling a story and it would've been obvious if I just left". There have also been times someone stepped away to go to the bathroom or whatever, and someone tried to ask them a question while they were gone, and people were like, "Oooo, is this their time in the night order or are they just AFK?"
@@MKisFeelinSpicy i think generally thats fine. I just cant help but feel something would be off on Al Hadikhia scripts
@@kyleraymond9469 Another important note, only the ST and no player can see the cameras in the night phase as far as I remember.
@@alchemicpink2392 certainly feels like you could rule out people though. ST comes back.with Al H picks and interupts a few folks chatting to do so. Rules them out.
@@kyleraymond9469 If people are using that to meta knowledge, an ST could just wait an arbitrary amount of time after getting the picks to announce them, could even go as far as waiting for the Al-Had to start talking to interrupt them.
I love that there now is a character that's literally pre-E me.
22 minutes in and Lyra wanting to get executed gives me a great idea for evil and I hope it happens. Barber swap Samantha with Taylor and get an evil banshee killed. With the spy in play, I really hope they realize this play and execute.
45seconds ago.... i'm so excited
isn't the new balloonist really weak?
It got massively buffed. The previous version meant that being poisoned once ruined four nights on information. - Ben
So Balloonist got nerfed?
It got massively buffed. The previous version meant that being poisoned once ruined four nights on information. - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower never thought of it like that. Cool.
I have taken a liking to claiming "hookah" and making my guess in my in person games 😅
At 7:58 or so the video loops back... needs another pass through editing!
Why would you not swap the barber with another good player?
in this case, Milk had the Grim via Avery so I think he felt confident enough to not swap. plus swapping would confirm Lyra although she died first so pretty much socially confirmed
@@Pauavi I'm still not sure I see the value in not keeping the barber in play, and neutralizing a townsfolk
@@frikkiedelange7785 i think part of it may have been just that it doesn’t change much, the spy already knows who everyone is and can deduce what info they’re learning and none of it really was hurting evil; i guess the main reason to not swap would be to avoid confirming barber but 🤷🏻♀️ maybe Milk will come to bless us with a more detailed thought process
Who's avery?
Hello. Im avery, also known as dakota. I play games on the internet. Mainly, i live on the tpi sunday streams where im one half of the stream team. You also amy know me from my currently on hiatus wrestling career. Hope you enjoy watching the games
Day one of asking for this amnesiac ability.
Each night, if both of their living neighbors are good, gain this ability. Once per day, the player may choose to recast a vote on a nomination.
(In which the storyteller would ask the amne, "do you wish to use it", if they say yes, storyteller would run the vote again like nothing happened)
Also feel free to leave suggestions on how to change wording or requirement. Thought itd be a really cool idea for a power to either rewind/recast a nomination or vote and havent seen a video previously with such ability.
All permutations for the Alsaahir in a 12 player game:
Since the Alsaahir can exclude themselves, there are 11 possible demon locations.
The Alsaahir doesn't need to pick specific minions, so there are 2 out of 10 viable minion locations, which is 45 [=10!/(2!*(10-2)!)=10*9/2]. If we consider the situation in the video - that the Alsaahir IS a minion, then we have 1 * 10 minion locations more.
So in total, we have 11 * 45 = 495 VIABLE Alsaahir options, that could lead to the game ending
and 11 * 55 = 605 Alsaahir options, that include the options, that the Alsaahir is a minion.
Except in the situation where the Alsaahir is a minion, they're not actually the Alsaahir and therefor can't use the ability
@@Wyrd-Oh which is EXACTLY, why I described these options separately and said that the VIABLE options are only 495.
My point is the information is superfluous and unnecessary
@@Wyrd-Oh Who are you to say, what information in MY post are necessary? I calculated ALL PERMUTATIONS for the Alsaahir. It is completely irrelevant, if they are winning guesses or not for that calculation.
This group of players is like the A team. Love how easy they make it look. Imagine if Skilz and Jams were playing too.
Ekin killing there demon... frustrates me
Jinx on Vizier, but not Psychopath? They are both publicly known.
The Psychopath only becomes publically known once it kills or is executed. It isn't announced by the storyteller like the Vizier is.
The Vizier is confirmed by ST immediately on D1. The psychopath can choose to reveal at a later point.
I think it's decently balanced with a Psychopath on the script.
- A psychopath can choose to not reveal themselves.
- The psychopath can immediately kill an Alsaahir claim upon revealing.
Yeah. An alsaahir put into that one Ben Psychopath game wouldn't fire (because Ben is hiding) and would have died before Ben/Psycho would have used ability.
Balloonist saw banshee (TF), barber (outsider), marionette (minion) and spy (who can't register as demon).... so no demon?
This is the new balloonist ability which was recently revealed 😊
Yeah so really you could logic it as
A B C D(?) and when working with other info it'll be more obvious that "okay A is townsfolk, B is definitely Outsider, C could be townsfolk but they're claiming outsider, so minion???? and D is townsfolk again?"
With Dreamer info that would be game solving
@@taylorbrewing Oooooh, I was so focused on the change to outsider count that I missed the change to the first part of the wording: "Each night, you learn a player of a different character type than last night. [+0 or +1 Outsider]" Thanks!
it would be really cool if there was a minion that could "Steal" ghost votes
The beggar, perhaps?
@@FriendTaren oh didn’t know that existed
Just gotta convince the dead to give you their votes, and your ability can’t be messed up.
@@FriendTarenbeggar is a public traveler role tho, a vote stealing minion might be too loud to be powerful
@@cicero8939 I realize that the beggar is a traveler, and is public, but it does “steal” ghost votes, so it would partially fit the criteria op thought of.
Is the new Balloonist not _nearly_ useless, now? "Different than last night" just means that it could be "outsider-townsfolk-outsider-townsfolk." So the ST has to either play it like it's still the old rule, or render it useless.
Am I missing something?
Yes, very much. If two people you got back to back are claiming the same character type, you know at least one is lying.
Plus combined with Dreamer info it's game solving since you can compare what the claim is, what the dreamer got, and who was what in what order.
@@bacontheshoe Okay, but if the ST doesn't give you the demon or a minion in one of those, how useful is that? And since it wouldn't be until night 3 that the new Balloonist gets something the old Balloonist couldn't, this doesn't even impact play until day 3. And it impacts it by making the balloonist's info less useful than it was before, when a Balloonist surviving to get 3 nights' info has always been a long shot and rarely was game-solving anyway. By the time the old balloonist is guaranteed to have the demon in his picks on day 4, the game is already 1-3 nights from resolving anyway; it'd be quite the lucky stroke to have only one of his four picks left alive!
I'm not seeing how this improves the game. It feels like it just makes the balloonist closer to being an Outsider than a Townsfolk, since it now increases uncertainty in the number of outsiders, _could_ decrease the number of townsfolk, and gives such questionably-useful info throughout the game rather than eventually giving an opportunity to shoot the moon.
Was the balloonist winning a lot of games that aren't aired, or something? Or that I just have missed? Why the enormous nerf?
@@segevstormlord3713 It's still quite a powerful ability, even when no evils are shown. Having any extra trust in good players is still powerful. Outsider-TF-Outsider-TF could really strongly confirm some players in some setups, for example setups with no mis-registration (recluse/spy) and no hiding outsiders (damsel/barber).
The biggest problem with the balloonist wasn't that they were too strong (though sometimes the were), it was that a SINGLE night of poisoning basically invalidated all their info. Then they're REALLY more of an outsider since their info is useless and they've removed a TF and guaranteed added an outsider.
I guess overall, the ability is just different than old balloonist. I don't think it's hugely stronger nor weaker, just more flexible and less swingy which I think makes for a better designed character.
@@bennytyty How does a single night of poisoning not invalidate the info at least as badly, now? Any night the old balloonist was healthy and sober, he got a different character type than the night before, so that much remains the same. Poisoning screws this up either way.
So a marionette alsaahir still makes good win if he guesses right?
A Marionette is a Marionette. It has no ability. - Ben
Due to the change, wasn't the chef given wrong information? There are 2 pairs of evil people with the bounty hunter change.
spy can register as minion, townsfolk, or outsider.
@@slawekstoj1 More relevantly, Spy can register as good
Spoilers...
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This may just be me, but turning the BH self-evil then giving them access to the spy (who knows they can trust them) is very unfair to town. Evil has an extra member for free (that they can just integrate right away) and one that doesn't have a useful minion ability, but a free bluff. That's not a townsfolk ability in any shape or form.
Sam seeing Avery didn't actually do anything from a setup perspective, since Avery would get the grim regardless. No matter which player the BH sees, they have access to the evil team via the spy. Same thing applies even if the BH turns a different townsfolk good, as the spy will see them no matter what and can just approach them. The scenario you described applies to literally any game with both a BH and spy, the only way out of it would be a jinx and it's not like the spy's other jinxes where the ability/game just doesn't function if the spy sees the full grim. This game also shows how having an outed BH actively working for evil can be harmful to the evil team- Sam falling on the sword to protect Milk was part of the reason why good won.
@@crocuslament9680 what it does from a setup perspective that both Avery and Sam know they are on the same team so they can be open with one another. If only one of them knows, the situation is less clear. Of course Avery messed it up and didn’t out to Sam D1 but that is a different atory.
@@crocuslament9680 i don't disagree with your other points though
@@csarmii It's definitely one of the more ironclad ways for an evil townsfolk to make contact with their team. It's more that there are so many ways for a BH to get false information (recluse, unlucky poisoner hit, philo, sailor, puzzlemaster, leech, vortox, a weirdly self-sabotaging widow, etc) and a spy has so much information to prove themselves with that I wouldn't say it's particularly unfair to town compared to any other info gathering role.
Feels like this character completely neuters the snake charmer. It was already pretty tough to deal with when the old demon came out before, but if this character is in play it’s flat out unwinnable.
It doesn't really, though? In fact they synergize immensely, because before it goes off the SC effectively learns "Not the Demon" info which helps the Alsaahir and once it has gone off the new SC can out the minions, giving the Alsaahir extra strong guesses.
If you mean that it severely neuters the Evil team when both are in play do keep in mind that SCs are extremely secretive so the old demon cannot just out the new one, an SC change is a very workable bluff and that the Alsaahir is a strong publically acting role and therefore more vulnerable to death and poison than quiet info roles.
not gonna lie I am already predisposed against town rolls that end the game on their own, but this one I like even less.
At least it makes for a great ravenkeeper bluff
Avery is probably the worse spy ever xd No offence tho :)
Listen listen.... i just kinda forgot lmao
@@DakotaAvery23 Shit happens! Makes it feel like an in person game where you have to remember everything instead of keeping an updated grim in an app IMO.
@@ragerequiem6323 Indeed, there is no screenshotting in person, unless you have a strange brain.
I mean you could mnemonic it, but it's going to be super sus when someone is chanting things trying to memorize it.
Malakai trans? 👀🥳