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People love it when Aragorn kneels before Frodo and resists the ring's pull on Amon Hen. They took that moment from us with Faramir. He rejected it immediately and honorably. Yes, his movie portrayal is compelling and even ends up on the right tone, but they took something. As you mentioned, Faramir is a dunedain, a numenorian. Frodo and Sam sense this. Sam even says that Faramir reminds him of Gandalf. Movie Faramir is not as noble and honorable. He doesn't display the same integrity. Book Faramir didn't need to have his men beat up Gollum; he just LOOKED at Gollum and Gollum couldn't lie to him. Faramir is beautiful, sad, brave, and wise. He is Aragorn all over again, except a little more approachable and human.
I think one of the difficulties with this is that because Peter Jackson changed Aragorns arch to being much more conflicted and the Dunedain in the movie don't have the 'aura' they have in the books, he couldn't show Faramir in full force because it would also diminish Aragorn.
@@suckieduckie That's a really good point, since they diminished Aragorn's legendary status, they had to tone down other characters so that they weren't better than Aragorn. Also, the book moment where Aragorn rejects the ring happens more subtly way back in Bree. In the movies, that moment is very recent. It would make the ring feel less powerful to have another human (albeit a very exceptional one) also reject the ring with such seeming ease.
A significant reason for the character assassination of Faramir was probably the need for a storytelling device where there is some tension in the Frodo-Sam story arc which is released or resolved as the Two Towers movie ends. In the books, where that trust is obtained earlier, there really isn't as much immediate danger facing Frodo and Sam while they are protected by Faramir. Still, I strongly disliked Jackson's Faramir the first couple of times I saw the films. I reacted as I would in real life if I was being told lies about a good friend that I knew to be a character of high integrity who had done nothing wrong. But over time, I have come to accept that Jackson's Faramir is perhaps just a different fictional character, who also works reasonably well for the movies. And there is still some trace of his underlying book character there.
I remember reading somewhere that Jackson needed Faramir to seem a little more ‘normal’ in order to make Aragorn stand out. We know from the books that Faramir is one of the greatest men of the late third/early fourth age, but he makes Aragorn look less impressive. The scene at Amon Hen annoyed me though because they altered Faramir because they’d been building up the power of the Ring and thought it was ‘death’ on screen to have a character completely reject it, but then added in this scene for Aragorn
Hey, there is actually a battle in Osgiliath that Faramir and Boromir fight, He says that they are among the last men who come back swimming after they destroy the only bridge.
I dislike what they did to Denathor more than any character. They took a character that was cunning with loads of depth, and had a clear character progression in his decent into madness, and basically made him completely unhinged from the start. In the books he was one of my favorite characters.
It doesn't bother me too much when I think of it in terms of "how could they have done it differently?" The movies are already bordering on too long as it is, you can't go into complete depth for every single character. There isn't enough time for everyone to have an arc. Denethor does become a villain in the end, so they chose to just portray him as a villain from the start. I feel like that's acceptable. We get the gist of who Denethor is enough as it pertains to the essential bits of the story.
I agree, but understand why changes were made to Denethor. He’s way too complex for the short period of time they have with him to truly dig deep into his mental state. Still think a simple scene with the Palantir should’ve been involved, but I understand why he was altered, even if I don’t like it
I agree with your hypothesis. The Valar wanted Faramir to go because they believed he could handle the ring. But Boromir went and things went pear shaped. It worked out, but I imagine things would've been smoother had the Fellowship not splintered at the falls.
I think we can all agree that David Wenham did a great job in portraying movie Faramir. Movie Faramir as character however... I'm already gearing up for the next episode. Still feel though that his dream was sent by Eru himself and not the Valar. During the whole Third Age it is clear the Valar are reluctant to directly involve themselves in Middle Earth affairs. There are several hints throughout the story that some higher level influence is at work that even Gandalf can't quite figure out. One moment that stands out to me is Gandalf's remark to Frodo that Bilbo was "meant" to find the ring, and therefore Frodo was "meant" to carry it, leaving unmentioned Who was doing the "meaning".
I think Jackson wanted all men to be weak and vulnerable when it comes to the ring save Aragorn. Eomer never got the chance, and Faramir somehow found the way to resist it for a time … but everyone else? Nope! It's totally consistent with the rest of the movies. And I realized last night what my problem with it is: In a film only a few characters tend to get really fleshed out and have actual growth. Frodo has it, obviously. Aragorn mostly later in TTT and in RotK as he begins to accept his destiny. And Faramir. Faramir grows in the films in ways he never does in the books. I think this is Jackson making sure that we care about his character before Denethor has a chance to do anything particularly foolish. And given that this is a setup for what comes later, it works for that purpose. Even if it destroyed Faramir's innate traits from the books.
"You said that my master has an elvish air, and that is good and true," said Sam, "but you have an air that reminds me of, of, Gandalf, and wizards." "Maybe," said Faramir. "Or maybe, you perceive from far off, the line of Numenor".
Faramir did not ignore his visions, rather Denethor did not take them seriously before Boromir had his own. Honestly, although vastly divergent from the source material, I love the movie adaptation of Faramir. Aside from his decision to take the Ring to Gondor I felt that most of the changes were justified. Jackson had already altered the narrative demonstrating that Man would not be able to ignore the temptation of the Ring. Whereas the books showed Isildur and Aragorn were both willing to pass over the Ring, Jackson showed Isildur fall to the Ring’s temptation, and Aragorn has a three movie arch where he struggles to accept his ability to resist the Ring. Had Faramir been more book accurate, he would have stood out amongst the other characters for his ability to ignore the power of the Ring.
This is correct. It's like Ulmo is sending the visions to Faramir, and no one takes them seriously. So he sends it once to Boromir who suddenly is like, "This is an important quest, and only I can accomplish it!"
@SpiritLife yuck. Jumping ahead to the next episode...A nazgul coming face to face with Frodo in Osgiliath would have been the end of the game. Sauron would have guessed why the ring was coming towards him rather than to Minas Tirith. He would have forgone releasing war and would rather be guarding his land. 😠 Ah well, we still have the books.
@@dlevi67Even funnier is Faramir literally witness Frodo practically handing the WK the Ring and then decides ‘oh, let’s let this hobbit, his gardener friend and their untrustworthy companion take it to Mordor’. If anything, that should’ve been the moment where he made his mind up to TAKE the ring, not let it go 😂
I would say Faramir’s whole family was changed quite a bit: Denethor was a Shakespearean tragedy of a character that was butchered into a flaming streaker; Boromir was softened quite a bit, making him a good guy with just a few daddy issues.
This is one of, if not the most egregious changes to the story that Peter Jackson makes. Faramir was the "good" brother. That is why he had the dream. I have always felt that Boromir lied when he said he had the dream once. He wanted to go on the mission for the glory.
Faramir was a beacon of light on our heros dark journey. Now he is a token to beat up Gollum so his sense of betrayal by the master is hammered in properly.
I gotta say, if you ask me to list my problems with Jackson's LOTR, Faramir is way way down the list. Cutting the Scouring of the Shire will always be my biggest gripe with those movies.
The problem with adding the Scouring of the Shire is not only that you need to reboot the story after the main plotline of the ring is essentially over, but that they would also need to add additional years of timeline showing how Sam - using Galadriel's gift regrows the party tree and the rest of the Shire. The Return of the King - extended edition - already has a amazingly long ending. I would have loved to see the story of the Scouring of the Shire told in the movies too, but I can understand why it was cut from the plot.
Another good candidate is turning the paths of the dead into a freak show with millions of skulls and a king of the dead initially refusing to come with Aragorn. Amazingly, at the exit of the paths of the dead they suddenly are on the coast, a few hundred miles to the east. No stone of Erech, no oath nothing...
In the extended version, Faramir’s character is portrayed quite differently compared to the theatrical release. His demeanor shifts noticeably after he kills a Haradrim soldier, and it’s clear that the act weighs heavily on him.
I laughed out loud and had to pause the video when I heard you coin the term, “successful character assassination“ 😂 Great video, I’m looking forward to part two!
In all respect, they assassinated Aragorn, Theoden, AND Faramir....and Frodo. David Wenham's portrayal of his tenderness is on point though. He's a good actor.
@@jamespringle7408 I must have imagined Aragorn running away from his Kinship for the first 2 and a half movies then, Frodo being slack-jawed and foolish and handing the ring to everyone and constantly having it out, and Theoden and Aragorn bickering like children. So yes. I call that legitimate 'character assassination, Sir.
1 min in and I agree so far. I view the movies and books as separate canon, and movie Faramir is clearly a result of the changes in his families characters and dynamics. Fits in nicely with the changes to Aragorn too. Wish we got more house of healing.
I truly enjoyed David Wenham's portrayal of Faramir. He's a very good actor. My problem is entirely with the script. A man who is as thoughtful and considerate as Tolkien's Faramir isn't going to be as rough and pushy as Peter Jackson decided to make him. He isn't quite so desirous of 'proving himself' to his father. Tolkien wrote both Faramir and Aragorn as the ideals he felt that humanity was capable of. Boromir was humanity complete with all its frailties. Peter Jackson didn't think those ideals would appeal to a movie audience in the same way it appealed to readers.
I can't wait to get to the point in the books where we meet Faramir (first time reader but looooong time fan of the movies and Tolkein in general). While I know he's even better in the books, I still really appreciated his character in the movies, most notably when he talks about the Harad man they killed, and what his story may have been. It just gives him a nuance you don't see with the rest of the characters.
We don't know if Galadriel and Elrond can converse like that from that distance. Probably not, because that would make some of the logistics partially different in the book. But we do have a telepathic conversation between Gandalf, Galadriel, and Elrond in the final chapters of the book, with the three of them sitting together and conversing without saying a word. So I guess this isn't entirely made up, and it has some degree of inspirarion in this scene.
The map scene was mainly made for the audiences to understand where the hobbits and Faramir are located in relation to where Rohan is to them as otherwise it would have been confusing for most "non-fans" (those who had read the book before seen the movies) when they don't know how far the different members of the Fellowship are from one another and where they are located.
IIRC, in the Director’s Commentary, Jackson mentions that was inserted because test audiences mistook Minas Tirith in the distant background of one of the wide shots of Osgiliath for Helm’s Deep and were confused as to why Gondor couldn’t go help out if they were so close. I think they might even as gone as far as removing Minas Tirith from the theatrical release and put it back in for the Extended Edition.
When I first saw Faramir go over the map with his lieutenant, I expected him to look directly into the camera and go "Everybody got that?!" ( a la Dark Helmet in *Spaceballs* ) 😂
Tolkien himself didn't care much for Boromir, IMO. But he was a favorite of Peter Jackson's. Faramir was one of Tolkien's noblest, one of the few who was unfazed by the One Ring, saying he wouldn't even pick it up if he found it lying by the road. Jackson made Faramir an evil character who acts brutally towards Gollum. Book Faramir is one of my favorites. And movie Boromir is much more compelling, and his death is truly a tragedy.
Faramir's character assassination is second only to Denethor's assassination! Gandalf pointed out a couple of times that Faramir resembles his father while Boromir was much different. Great analysis as always, looking forward to part 2! Thanks to Faramir's discussion with Frodo we learn Gandalf's first name when he was young in the West (Olorin)
The characters in the books are the definition of aura. The mind games they play with eachother are underrated. On the movies there's hardly any clash of wills and wits besides the will of the ring vs the will to resist temptation. Denethor was all about these things althougth ultimately fails.
The first time I saw the LoTRs films it was in a local cinema which screened the extended versions. FotR week one, Two Towers week two and RotK week three. It was great to see the extended editions back-to-back on the big screen. But the scenes with Faramir left me saying WTH?! I sort of understood and accepted Denethor's character assassination as it sets up the funeral pyre scene with Faramir. However, I think a scene with Denethor striving with Sauron in the palantir could have been included as it would illustrate the reasons for his behavior and decisions. Faramir's character assassination took me out of the story watching the film. I re-watched the DVDs and still wasn't chuffed with the adaptation. Looking forward to next week's installment.
A few too many plosives to be a comfortable listen but otherwise your audio is good. Placing your mic above your mouth (say, in line with your nose) and pointing it downward could solve this, and de-plosive plugins could help remedy affected audio… don’t rely on pop-filters, they’re meant to catch strays rather than resolve the issue, and most don’t work. Great content, too.
I haven't read the books all the way through since 2003. It took me about six months to finish. I honestly don't remember about 90% of it. I own the e-books, so I can read them any time I like. I probably should, though.
I watched the films before I read the books, so I originally really liked movie Faramir. Now, I don’t dislike him, but I don’t love him like I do in the books. In the books, he’s a top 3 character, can’t say the same in the films. I agree, as standalone films, the character and the arc is absolutely brilliant, but with the context of the books, it’s such a shame we lose such an amazing character
They 100 % change faramir he was such a caring powerful heroic brave character in the books reduced to a notbing burger. I always felt the swap faramir and Aragorns personalities from the books in the films
I believe you are slightly misinterpreting the events of the book concerning the vision and the outcome. It's not said anywhere that Faramir was ignoring the dream and therefore Boromir had it, too, only that Faramir had it repeatedly and Boromir once, and since neither of them could figure out its meaning, they went to consult with Denethor. Also, while I don't deny Boromir's genuine love for his brother, he actually _usurped_ the quest for the sake of his ego, as Gandalf reminds Denethor when that keeps moaning that Faramir should have gone instead: "Boromir claimed the errand and would not suffer any other to have it. He was a masterful man, and one to take what he desired." Fully in line with what Faramir says about his brother, since love didn't make him blind towards Boromir's flaws: "proud and fearless, often rash, ever anxious for the victory of Minas Tirith (and his own glory therein)".
That is true - on the other hand, Boromir (in the books, never mind the movies) never understands the danger of the Ring and considers it a weapon against the Enemy, until, on Amon Hen, he snaps. Faramir understands immediately what the Ring represents, and rejects it because of that. Would he have broken after months on the road with it? Who knows - but Faramir, who has not attended the Council of Elrond and is thus far less informed about what the Ring is and why Frodo is where he is, has a fundamentally different and more 'elven' than 'mannish' reaction to the temptation represented by the Ring, and that in Tolkien's view counted for a lot (see his explanation of why Bilbo was able to let go of the Ring and be only minimally damaged by it, despite long ownership, whereas Gollum was immediately corrupted).
@dlevi67 totally agree! Faramir simply knew better than to be tempted by the ring, and wanted no part of it. If anything, he probably worried that he should have joined Sam and Frodo. . We didn't get much of his interactions with Mithradir/Gandalf, but he learned and learned well.
@@dlevi67 Has the right of it regards to Faramir. Now, @ATVatcher, what you say about Boromir being around the Ring for an extended time before succumbing to its temptations, and quickly coming to his senses, is important for not judging him too harshly. Anyone exposed to it long enough is bound to succumb. He just comes out looking bad in comparison to some of the wisest people in Middle-Earth and some hobbits who have a particular resistance to it.
Faramir was a favorite character of mine in the book, but in the movie when he tries to take the ring away from Frodo, I felt the character was betrayed. By the time this scene came along I was used to drastic changes from the book, though.
YES! I really hope he gets it right when it comes to discussing Eowyn. She wasn't a strong woman girl-boss in the books. Her going into battle was akin to Denethor lighting the pyre. It was despair. She gave up on everything and wanted to die. Yes she was brave. Yes, she was noble. Yes she did a heroic deed, but he motivation was despair and low esteem for her culture. That is all made clear in the houses of healing scene.
@@bookworm4174 I dislike people saying "Eowyn was cool because her fear of the Witch King made her real", but that is so not accurate to the character in the book. Eowyn was fearless. She even made the Witch King fall into doubt, both because of her proclamation of being a woman, and he knew the lore behind this, and because she had nerves of steel.
@@bookworm4174 PJ changing Eowyn’s entire storyline to revolve around Aragorn, a man who in the books she has nothing more than a schoolgirl crush on, to the point where the movies make it seem like she went to war because she was rejected by a man instead of suffering years worth of depression, being preyed upon by Wormtongue, forced to take care of an ill, old man, all of that leading to despair. But no, movies made it all about Aragorn 🙄
@@bookworm4174 In the book, I got the impression she was always a tough warrior and that all Rohirric women were like that: it is never implied shieldmaidens are uncommon. The words "a cage," and to become old without ever fulfilling "the desire and want to do great deeds" seem to refer to fear of being a prisoner of the orcs in the event Rohan falls, it is just that she began to wonder if Wormtongue's words behind the king's back were right.
Get the logic about them changing Faramir so he wouldnt be stronger than Aragorn in the movie...and at least the extend versions did show a slightly closer version to book.
Again I'm going to have to say it. I've only seen the films both theatrical and extended edition. When it gets to Faramir his portrayal in the books for a character ark and characterization as an unloved second child who feels overshadowed by his much more loved older brothers who just wants to make his father proud is an amazing character journey. He just wants his father's love.
@@reeceemms1643 But Faramir in the books isn’t as bothered by that as Boromir is. Of course he wants his father’s love, but he’s a 36 year old man, he knows if he hasn’t earned his respect by now, he never will, so he doesn’t do things to please Denethor, but instead he does what he believes to be right
I watched the movie before reading the books, so I only knew him that way, and he is my favorite part of the movie, but after the books, I like him more.
I am really enjoying this series, despite saying for the last 20 years that the only way to enjoy Jackson’s movies is to NOT compare them to the books. Maybe they have been around long enough now for the comparisons not to hurt them too much
I will point out that Faramir was Finrod, just as Eowyn was Galadriel. However, before Eowyn it was Borimir who was Galadriel in a more general sense as he also represented the Eldar.. Tolkien clearly sought a reconciliation of all the histories of Middle Earth as they changed hands and became the story of Men. This is clear in the unification of Aragorn and Arwen.
It’s funny both Faramir’s movie portrayal and the elves showing up to help at helms deep are some of my favourite aspects of the two towers, yet they’re PJ creations. I think it’s a great testament to how sticking to the source material isn’t necessarily a must and often deviating can work really well for movie/tv adaptations when done purposefully
You're also slightly wrong about the vision. Farmer does not ignore it. He just doesn't know who to tell because both bore mayor and his father don't don't necessarily. Trust. The valor. The brothers have a brief conversation after the first time. Bore mare has the visiand ultimately go to their father where it's decided that bore mayor will go to seek revendal instead.
Appropriately for this time of year, I am thankful for Gibby and these videos. As I tend to always say, I love both the book and movie versions. However, what bugs me is a small thing. It is Galadriel's lips moving when she "talks" to Elrond. She is using telepathy, so why is she shown talking?
Jackson just made Faramir a little Boromir. Seeming that only seeing the enemies power over the ring changes Faramir's mind. This could have easily happened to Boromir as well. Jackson took away the difference in the 2 brothers and made them clones. I hated that.
I don’t think they really changed Denethor much. All they did was speed up his descent into madness. Much of what he says are his actual words just said together instead of spread out. Jackson didn’t have a lot of time to convey Denethor’s madness over pages and pages like Tolkien so he combined bits and put them together to emphasize his madness.
In the commentaries (everyone here has watched the directors' commentaries, yes?) they point out that book Faramir was logically inconsistent with the narrative of the Ring. EVERYONE is tempted by the Ring (except Tom Bombadil). That is what makes it so dangerous. If Gandalf is scared to even touch it, then what makes Faramir practically immune to it? It's better to show Faramir to be tempted by the Ring, and then overcome temptation.
Disagree. Gandalf and Galadriel know better than to touch it because as mighty beings, they are much more susceptible to its corrupting influence. Farimir isn’t immune to it ala Bombadil. He’s wise enough to nope out of it based on what he knows of its lore. I felt like they got a bit too ham fisted with the ring’s evil in the films, but being a visual medium I understand why.
@@rxg9er Faramir isn’t immune to it, he’s just wise enough to know that the ring will corrupt him, that’s why he tells Frodo to keep it out of sight and not mention it again. And their justification in the commentaries would make much more sense, but only Boromir from the Fellowship was properly affected and they invent the scene where Aragorn rejects it, so their discussion in the commentaries doesn’t make sense
*Only in the Extended Edition. The character in the theatrical release is flat, with barely anything that can be called a personality. The extended edition Faramir, while still unreasonably different from the books, has depth and meaning to his decisions. Given you show scenes from the extended edition I presume that's what you're talking about, but you should have specified.
I don't _dislike_ the Peter Jackson movies by _any_ means - I watch them frequently and enjoy them very much. But it is absolutely in no way an adaptation of The Lord of the Rings - it is a new story heavily "inspired by" The Lord of the Rings. The changes to Aragorn, Gimli, and Faramir, in particular (among all the others you've highlighted and have yet to highlight) make these two _different_ stories, despite all the similarities they do share. These aren't the characters Tolkien wrote, and it's not the story he wrote; it's just remarkably similar in a thousand superficial ways.
The AI thumbnails on other videos had me thinking the whole channel was the AI slop stuff that’s all over youtube now, I’m glad you stopped using them I never would’ve clicked
If you are looking just at the film mmm the movies were Based on the BOOKS. That should be the keystone you work with. Peter Jackson messed up a lot in Two towers. I think he did not understand the books as well as he should have. The best of the 3 movies was and is the Fellowship of the Ring. The other two had changes that should not have been made. They show someone did not quite understand the books. As with a lot of movies the actor is fine but he can only work with what he is rold to do.
I think there should have been 6 films. each book is divided into 2 parts, so if the films had been split like this everything could have been included.
For me, the worst part of the movies was the presence of the Dead at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. It makes a difference if it was a triumph of the normal over the abnormal or if it was just one abnormal against another.
@@christosvoskresye Plus, it robbed us of seeing the Gondorians at their full strength, because they’re portrayed as kind of weak in the films. Would’ve loved to have seen Imrahil and the Swan Knights too
Redeeming character assassination? I'm sorry... How is that remotely possible? There's a reason why they call it character assassination--because it destroys and skews the character in the eyes of the audience. It is defamation, against which the character and the character's fans have absolutely no recourse and from which Faramir, in particular, is unlikely to ever recover because so many people never consult the books. Thus, adaptations have a way of controlling how characters are perceived and portrayed later. The taint and injustice to the character does not just go away. And Jackson does not "redeem" what he does to Faramir. How could he? His version makes Faramir either an idiot whose only excuse is stupidity, ignorance, and poor judgment (exactly the kind of person who should not be in charge and is unworthy of trust as a leader) or a spineless dupe controlled by stronger man (exactly the kind of man who would not let Frodo and Sam go on their way in the end and, again, someone who is dependent on others' approval and should never be Gondor's No 2). The guy knows the Ring corrupts people, but he almost gives the Ring to the Enemy and delayed the journey of the Ring by days...days in which the armies of the West should have been destroyed by Sauron's forces. But, of course, Jackson conveniently ignores any considerations of time or distance when it suits him to do so. There's a reason why Tolkien very carefully worked out the timeline and logistics of what happened and where and when. Book Faramir did NOT ignore the vision he was sent; Denethor wouldn't let him go but insisted on sending Boromir instead because Boromir wanted the job (and the glory) and probably because Denethor sensed that Faramir was more likely than Boromir to defy Denethor's will if given good-enough reasons. In the books, Faramir is no stranger to the Nazgul and no stranger to fighting with Sauron's forces; he knows it's only a matter of time before Sauron's forces hit Ithilien hard enough to break all defenses. Even movie-Faramir knows this. You do not send a weapon that would ensure the Enemy's victory straight back into an area that is or will be shortly be controlled by the Enemy. You do not send it into traffic and into the middle of territories where the Enemy will show up; that is exactly how it gets taken and you are entirely to blame for all that ensues. Had Sauron's forces gotten anywhere near Osgiliath, the whole way through Ithilien would have been blocked to Frodo and Sam and the whole gig would have been up. But put some pretty battles on the screen and then ignore visually the fact that (in all probability) the whole area would be occupied by the Enemy and people lose their brains. Only the fact that, as portrayed in the books, the Enemy had not yet established itself to any serious degree in the area when Frodo and Sam came through enabled Frodo, Sam, and Gollum to evade capture. Even if Faramir thought the whole idea of trying to take the Ring to the fire was folly, Middle Earth's chances were a whole lot better if Frodo were left free than if he were hanging around in a war zone or with Gondorian forces. But, because Jackson insisted on doing things his ways, he had to shoehorn in one of the most disgusting scenes in the movies...the near miss at Osgiliath. Which totally destroys the plausibility of the films, the credibility of the Nazgul, and any credibility Frodo has as well. One of the Nazgul is within feet of Frodo and Frodo is seriously is in its thrall enough to approach and offer the Ring to it, yet somehow the Nazgul doesn't sense the Ring and take it? And Frodo somehow doesn't succeed in giving the Ring to it? Plot-induced incompetence on the part of the bad guys, or what possible nonsense can explain that? If Frodo were that far gone and that close, nothing would have prevented Sauron from regaining the Ring. And, of course, the movies seem to forget that while the Ring always tries to corrupt its bearer and may very well betray its bearer, it also inspires a corresponding covetousness that makes any Ringbearer highly unwilling to give it up to anyone, much less Sauron. That's how Frodo knew he could trust Gollum not to betray them--because he would never, if he had any choice in the matter, hand the Ring over to Sauron and give up any prospect of ever having it himself again. Even when Frodo was overcome, he was not overcome by Sauron's will. No. He had the power of dominating, even if he didn't know how to use it or wouldn't be formidable enough to keep it. Sauron would take the Ring from him easily, but he wouldn't hand it over--either to Sauron or to the Nazgul--if he had any choice. And if Frodo can be overcome so wholly or be so completely in thrall to the Ring so early on, in Ithilien which is not truly under the Shadow yet, how is it remotely plausible that he gets through Mordor without either killing Sam or breaking down and claiming the Ring? And, of course, we're expected to believe that in the course of such a journey to Osgiliath, surrounded by men that have Frodo in their power, the Ring wouldn't wreak havoc to get into the hands of someone more biddable and easier to suborn than Frodo? I hate being expected to turn off my brain in order to have any prospect of enjoying these movies. It's not just Faramir. Ithilien is the last place where--at least in the books--Frodo really gets the chance to be himself and show why he is the Ringbearer. His knowledge of people and places and his maturity and interpersonal skills are critical in how the whole situation plays out. We see him managing how much to tell Faramir in a way that requires judgment, education, keen intelligence, discernment, and skill Sam simply doesn't have. Further, in the books we see Frodo fight off the influence of the Ring time and time again, and he does NOT offer the Ring to Nazgul or get so crazy as to attack his best friend. Not until after he's already in Mordor and stung by Shelob and captured by orcs. So, without that, of course movie audiences are going to wonder why Sam wasn't just sent to do the job in the first place and Frodo just looks useless and spineless and pathetic and weak. In fact, it makes absolutely no sense in the movies that Frodo was able to make it to Mordor, much less to Mount Doom. If Frodo hadn't trusted Sam implicitly, things would have turned tragic long before Mount Doom.
How can you continue to lecture everyone on Faramir when you can't pronounce his name? I can't even focus on what you're saying. Did you not watch any of the movies pronouncing it correctly for hours on end?
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People love it when Aragorn kneels before Frodo and resists the ring's pull on Amon Hen. They took that moment from us with Faramir. He rejected it immediately and honorably. Yes, his movie portrayal is compelling and even ends up on the right tone, but they took something. As you mentioned, Faramir is a dunedain, a numenorian. Frodo and Sam sense this. Sam even says that Faramir reminds him of Gandalf. Movie Faramir is not as noble and honorable. He doesn't display the same integrity. Book Faramir didn't need to have his men beat up Gollum; he just LOOKED at Gollum and Gollum couldn't lie to him. Faramir is beautiful, sad, brave, and wise. He is Aragorn all over again, except a little more approachable and human.
I think one of the difficulties with this is that because Peter Jackson changed Aragorns arch to being much more conflicted and the Dunedain in the movie don't have the 'aura' they have in the books, he couldn't show Faramir in full force because it would also diminish Aragorn.
@@suckieduckie That's a really good point, since they diminished Aragorn's legendary status, they had to tone down other characters so that they weren't better than Aragorn. Also, the book moment where Aragorn rejects the ring happens more subtly way back in Bree. In the movies, that moment is very recent. It would make the ring feel less powerful to have another human (albeit a very exceptional one) also reject the ring with such seeming ease.
A significant reason for the character assassination of Faramir was probably the need for a storytelling device where there is some tension in the Frodo-Sam story arc which is released or resolved as the Two Towers movie ends. In the books, where that trust is obtained earlier, there really isn't as much immediate danger facing Frodo and Sam while they are protected by Faramir.
Still, I strongly disliked Jackson's Faramir the first couple of times I saw the films. I reacted as I would in real life if I was being told lies about a good friend that I knew to be a character of high integrity who had done nothing wrong. But over time, I have come to accept that Jackson's Faramir is perhaps just a different fictional character, who also works reasonably well for the movies. And there is still some trace of his underlying book character there.
I remember reading somewhere that Jackson needed Faramir to seem a little more ‘normal’ in order to make Aragorn stand out. We know from the books that Faramir is one of the greatest men of the late third/early fourth age, but he makes Aragorn look less impressive. The scene at Amon Hen annoyed me though because they altered Faramir because they’d been building up the power of the Ring and thought it was ‘death’ on screen to have a character completely reject it, but then added in this scene for Aragorn
Hey, there is actually a battle in Osgiliath that Faramir and Boromir fight, He says that they are among the last men who come back swimming after they destroy the only bridge.
I dislike what they did to Denathor more than any character. They took a character that was cunning with loads of depth, and had a clear character progression in his decent into madness, and basically made him completely unhinged from the start. In the books he was one of my favorite characters.
It doesn't bother me too much when I think of it in terms of "how could they have done it differently?" The movies are already bordering on too long as it is, you can't go into complete depth for every single character. There isn't enough time for everyone to have an arc. Denethor does become a villain in the end, so they chose to just portray him as a villain from the start. I feel like that's acceptable. We get the gist of who Denethor is enough as it pertains to the essential bits of the story.
I agree, but understand why changes were made to Denethor. He’s way too complex for the short period of time they have with him to truly dig deep into his mental state. Still think a simple scene with the Palantir should’ve been involved, but I understand why he was altered, even if I don’t like it
@PalmelaHanderson, PJ could have easily cut down the Warg attack scene to make room, that scene is bloated
@@keithtorgersen9664 The whole warg attack in general was completely unnecessary and the ‘Aragorn is dead’ subplot was a strange addition
@@Hannah-hq8ne It was based on when the Wargs attacked the Hornberg and Aragorn is shoved against a wall, I believe.
I agree with your hypothesis. The Valar wanted Faramir to go because they believed he could handle the ring. But Boromir went and things went pear shaped. It worked out, but I imagine things would've been smoother had the Fellowship not splintered at the falls.
I think we can all agree that David Wenham did a great job in portraying movie Faramir. Movie Faramir as character however... I'm already gearing up for the next episode.
Still feel though that his dream was sent by Eru himself and not the Valar. During the whole Third Age it is clear the Valar are reluctant to directly involve themselves in Middle Earth affairs. There are several hints throughout the story that some higher level influence is at work that even Gandalf can't quite figure out. One moment that stands out to me is Gandalf's remark to Frodo that Bilbo was "meant" to find the ring, and therefore Frodo was "meant" to carry it, leaving unmentioned Who was doing the "meaning".
Yea. You really have to read the deep lore to even find out that Gandalf and the other wizards were mentored by the Valar to carry out their mission.
DIRECTLY involve themselves, not indirectly.
I think Jackson wanted all men to be weak and vulnerable when it comes to the ring save Aragorn. Eomer never got the chance, and Faramir somehow found the way to resist it for a time … but everyone else? Nope! It's totally consistent with the rest of the movies. And I realized last night what my problem with it is:
In a film only a few characters tend to get really fleshed out and have actual growth. Frodo has it, obviously. Aragorn mostly later in TTT and in RotK as he begins to accept his destiny. And Faramir. Faramir grows in the films in ways he never does in the books. I think this is Jackson making sure that we care about his character before Denethor has a chance to do anything particularly foolish. And given that this is a setup for what comes later, it works for that purpose. Even if it destroyed Faramir's innate traits from the books.
"You said that my master has an elvish air, and that is good and true," said Sam, "but you have an air that reminds me of, of, Gandalf, and wizards." "Maybe," said Faramir. "Or maybe, you perceive from far off, the line of Numenor".
This episode is the one I've been waiting for from the beginning. Faramir is THE GOAT
Well, I'll be looking forward to the second part even more than the first
Faramir did not ignore his visions, rather Denethor did not take them seriously before Boromir had his own. Honestly, although vastly divergent from the source material, I love the movie adaptation of Faramir. Aside from his decision to take the Ring to Gondor I felt that most of the changes were justified. Jackson had already altered the narrative demonstrating that Man would not be able to ignore the temptation of the Ring. Whereas the books showed Isildur and Aragorn were both willing to pass over the Ring, Jackson showed Isildur fall to the Ring’s temptation, and Aragorn has a three movie arch where he struggles to accept his ability to resist the Ring. Had Faramir been more book accurate, he would have stood out amongst the other characters for his ability to ignore the power of the Ring.
This is correct. It's like Ulmo is sending the visions to Faramir, and no one takes them seriously. So he sends it once to Boromir who suddenly is like, "This is an important quest, and only I can accomplish it!"
Worst case of character done dirty: Faramir.
Worst (unnecessary) plot change: Osgiliath
Not just unnecessary, but absurd. Within sight of Mordor, the Witch King gets inches from the Ring and fails to capture it?!?
@dlevi67 exactly
@SpiritLife yuck. Jumping ahead to the next episode...A nazgul coming face to face with Frodo in Osgiliath would have been the end of the game. Sauron would have guessed why the ring was coming towards him rather than to Minas Tirith. He would have forgone releasing war and would rather be guarding his land.
😠
Ah well, we still have the books.
@dlevi67 no kidding!
Ol' Angmar would be demoted to the chief latrine warden of Barad-Dur. (And that's a lot of orc filth to manage.)
@@dlevi67Even funnier is Faramir literally witness Frodo practically handing the WK the Ring and then decides ‘oh, let’s let this hobbit, his gardener friend and their untrustworthy companion take it to Mordor’. If anything, that should’ve been the moment where he made his mind up to TAKE the ring, not let it go 😂
I would say Faramir’s whole family was changed quite a bit: Denethor was a Shakespearean tragedy of a character that was butchered into a flaming streaker; Boromir was softened quite a bit, making him a good guy with just a few daddy issues.
This is one of, if not the most egregious changes to the story that Peter Jackson makes. Faramir was the "good" brother. That is why he had the dream. I have always felt that Boromir lied when he said he had the dream once. He wanted to go on the mission for the glory.
Well, Faramir had the dream first and had it several times, while Boromir had it only once.
Faramir was a beacon of light on our heros dark journey. Now he is a token to beat up Gollum so his sense of betrayal by the master is hammered in properly.
A token?
I gotta say, if you ask me to list my problems with Jackson's LOTR, Faramir is way way down the list. Cutting the Scouring of the Shire will always be my biggest gripe with those movies.
True I think PJ thought he would have made the movie too long if he added that. Or his cash ran out 😂
The problem with adding the Scouring of the Shire is not only that you need to reboot the story after the main plotline of the ring is essentially over, but that they would also need to add additional years of timeline showing how Sam - using Galadriel's gift regrows the party tree and the rest of the Shire. The Return of the King - extended edition - already has a amazingly long ending. I would have loved to see the story of the Scouring of the Shire told in the movies too, but I can understand why it was cut from the plot.
Another good candidate is turning the paths of the dead into a freak show with millions of skulls and a king of the dead initially refusing to come with Aragorn. Amazingly, at the exit of the paths of the dead they suddenly are on the coast, a few hundred miles to the east. No stone of Erech, no oath nothing...
In the extended version, Faramir’s character is portrayed quite differently compared to the theatrical release. His demeanor shifts noticeably after he kills a Haradrim soldier, and it’s clear that the act weighs heavily on him.
I laughed out loud and had to pause the video when I heard you coin the term, “successful character assassination“ 😂 Great video, I’m looking forward to part two!
Thinking about trademarking it 👀😂
I would think these problems would be resolved in the 8.5 day version.
In all respect, they assassinated Aragorn, Theoden, AND Faramir....and Frodo. David Wenham's portrayal of his tenderness is on point though. He's a good actor.
No they didn't
@@jamespringle7408 I must have imagined Aragorn running away from his Kinship for the first 2 and a half movies then, Frodo being slack-jawed and foolish and handing the ring to everyone and constantly having it out, and Theoden and Aragorn bickering like children. So yes. I call that legitimate 'character assassination, Sir.
@ it’s one of the best trilogies ever no need to critique
1 min in and I agree so far. I view the movies and books as separate canon, and movie Faramir is clearly a result of the changes in his families characters and dynamics. Fits in nicely with the changes to Aragorn too. Wish we got more house of healing.
I truly enjoyed David Wenham's portrayal of Faramir. He's a very good actor. My problem is entirely with the script. A man who is as thoughtful and considerate as Tolkien's Faramir isn't going to be as rough and pushy as Peter Jackson decided to make him. He isn't quite so desirous of 'proving himself' to his father. Tolkien wrote both Faramir and Aragorn as the ideals he felt that humanity was capable of. Boromir was humanity complete with all its frailties. Peter Jackson didn't think those ideals would appeal to a movie audience in the same way it appealed to readers.
I got the impression in the books both wanted to improve themselves.
Never has the word character assassination been more accurate!
He was good in the movie
@@jamespringle7408 Well, it works in the movie. But he's so different they could have given him a different name.
@ disagree
I can't wait to get to the point in the books where we meet Faramir (first time reader but looooong time fan of the movies and Tolkein in general). While I know he's even better in the books, I still really appreciated his character in the movies, most notably when he talks about the Harad man they killed, and what his story may have been. It just gives him a nuance you don't see with the rest of the characters.
Thanks for the shout-out, not really sure my comment was worth it, but you made my day that much more thanks to that! ❤
We don't know if Galadriel and Elrond can converse like that from that distance. Probably not, because that would make some of the logistics partially different in the book. But we do have a telepathic conversation between Gandalf, Galadriel, and Elrond in the final chapters of the book, with the three of them sitting together and conversing without saying a word. So I guess this isn't entirely made up, and it has some degree of inspirarion in this scene.
The map scene was mainly made for the audiences to understand where the hobbits and Faramir are located in relation to where Rohan is to them as otherwise it would have been confusing for most "non-fans" (those who had read the book before seen the movies) when they don't know how far the different members of the Fellowship are from one another and where they are located.
IIRC, in the Director’s Commentary, Jackson mentions that was inserted because test audiences mistook Minas Tirith in the distant background of one of the wide shots of Osgiliath for Helm’s Deep and were confused as to why Gondor couldn’t go help out if they were so close. I think they might even as gone as far as removing Minas Tirith from the theatrical release and put it back in for the Extended Edition.
When I first saw Faramir go over the map with his lieutenant, I expected him to look directly into the camera and go "Everybody got that?!" ( a la Dark Helmet in *Spaceballs* ) 😂
During the battle with the Haradrim, one can hear a faint "Keep firing, assholes!"
@@DisFantasy Where?
Can you have a successful character assassination? Yes, the entirety of Kubrick's The Shining was a character assassination of Steven King.
Tolkien himself didn't care much for Boromir, IMO. But he was a favorite of Peter Jackson's.
Faramir was one of Tolkien's noblest, one of the few who was unfazed by the One Ring, saying he wouldn't even pick it up if he found it lying by the road. Jackson made Faramir an evil character who acts brutally towards Gollum.
Book Faramir is one of my favorites. And movie Boromir is much more compelling, and his death is truly a tragedy.
Faramir's character assassination is second only to Denethor's assassination! Gandalf pointed out a couple of times that Faramir resembles his father while Boromir was much different.
Great analysis as always, looking forward to part 2! Thanks to Faramir's discussion with Frodo we learn Gandalf's first name when he was young in the West (Olorin)
The characters in the books are the definition of aura. The mind games they play with eachother are underrated. On the movies there's hardly any clash of wills and wits besides the will of the ring vs the will to resist temptation. Denethor was all about these things althougth ultimately fails.
The first time I saw the LoTRs films it was in a local cinema which screened the extended versions. FotR week one, Two Towers week two and RotK week three. It was great to see the extended editions back-to-back on the big screen. But the scenes with Faramir left me saying WTH?! I sort of understood and accepted Denethor's character assassination as it sets up the funeral pyre scene with Faramir. However, I think a scene with Denethor striving with Sauron in the palantir could have been included as it would illustrate the reasons for his behavior and decisions. Faramir's character assassination took me out of the story watching the film. I re-watched the DVDs and still wasn't chuffed with the adaptation. Looking forward to next week's installment.
A few too many plosives to be a comfortable listen but otherwise your audio is good. Placing your mic above your mouth (say, in line with your nose) and pointing it downward could solve this, and de-plosive plugins could help remedy affected audio… don’t rely on pop-filters, they’re meant to catch strays rather than resolve the issue, and most don’t work.
Great content, too.
Thanks for the tip! This has been bugging me for ages. Even tried getting a higher quality mic and it still did it. I’ll try out your suggestions!
I haven't read the books all the way through since 2003. It took me about six months to finish. I honestly don't remember about 90% of it. I own the e-books, so I can read them any time I like. I probably should, though.
I watched the films before I read the books, so I originally really liked movie Faramir. Now, I don’t dislike him, but I don’t love him like I do in the books. In the books, he’s a top 3 character, can’t say the same in the films. I agree, as standalone films, the character and the arc is absolutely brilliant, but with the context of the books, it’s such a shame we lose such an amazing character
They 100 % change faramir he was such a caring powerful heroic brave character in the books reduced to a notbing burger. I always felt the swap faramir and Aragorns personalities from the books in the films
I believe you are slightly misinterpreting the events of the book concerning the vision and the outcome. It's not said anywhere that Faramir was ignoring the dream and therefore Boromir had it, too, only that Faramir had it repeatedly and Boromir once, and since neither of them could figure out its meaning, they went to consult with Denethor. Also, while I don't deny Boromir's genuine love for his brother, he actually _usurped_ the quest for the sake of his ego, as Gandalf reminds Denethor when that keeps moaning that Faramir should have gone instead: "Boromir claimed the errand and would not suffer any other to have it. He was a masterful man, and one to take what he desired." Fully in line with what Faramir says about his brother, since love didn't make him blind towards Boromir's flaws: "proud and fearless, often rash, ever anxious for the victory of Minas Tirith (and his own glory therein)".
Boromir the brave was tempted by the ring over a much longer time than good Faramir.
Who knows how it might have worked out otherwise.
That is true - on the other hand, Boromir (in the books, never mind the movies) never understands the danger of the Ring and considers it a weapon against the Enemy, until, on Amon Hen, he snaps. Faramir understands immediately what the Ring represents, and rejects it because of that.
Would he have broken after months on the road with it? Who knows - but Faramir, who has not attended the Council of Elrond and is thus far less informed about what the Ring is and why Frodo is where he is, has a fundamentally different and more 'elven' than 'mannish' reaction to the temptation represented by the Ring, and that in Tolkien's view counted for a lot (see his explanation of why Bilbo was able to let go of the Ring and be only minimally damaged by it, despite long ownership, whereas Gollum was immediately corrupted).
@dlevi67 totally agree!
Faramir simply knew better than to be tempted by the ring, and wanted no part of it.
If anything, he probably worried that he should have joined Sam and Frodo.
.
We didn't get much of his interactions with Mithradir/Gandalf, but he learned and learned well.
@@dlevi67 Has the right of it regards to Faramir.
Now, @ATVatcher, what you say about Boromir being around the Ring for an extended time before succumbing to its temptations, and quickly coming to his senses, is important for not judging him too harshly.
Anyone exposed to it long enough is bound to succumb. He just comes out looking bad in comparison to some of the wisest people in Middle-Earth and some hobbits who have a particular resistance to it.
Faramir was a favorite character of mine in the book, but in the movie when he tries to take the ring away from Frodo, I felt the character was betrayed. By the time this scene came along I was used to drastic changes from the book, though.
His exchange with Ewoyn was barely acknowledged in RotK. Ewoyn is another character who is a hot mess in PJ films.
YES! I really hope he gets it right when it comes to discussing Eowyn. She wasn't a strong woman girl-boss in the books. Her going into battle was akin to Denethor lighting the pyre. It was despair. She gave up on everything and wanted to die. Yes she was brave. Yes, she was noble. Yes she did a heroic deed, but he motivation was despair and low esteem for her culture. That is all made clear in the houses of healing scene.
@@bookworm4174 I dislike people saying "Eowyn was cool because her fear of the Witch King made her real", but that is so not accurate to the character in the book. Eowyn was fearless. She even made the Witch King fall into doubt, both because of her proclamation of being a woman, and he knew the lore behind this, and because she had nerves of steel.
@@bookworm4174 PJ changing Eowyn’s entire storyline to revolve around Aragorn, a man who in the books she has nothing more than a schoolgirl crush on, to the point where the movies make it seem like she went to war because she was rejected by a man instead of suffering years worth of depression, being preyed upon by Wormtongue, forced to take care of an ill, old man, all of that leading to despair. But no, movies made it all about Aragorn 🙄
@@Hannah-hq8ne Exactly!!! Aragorn couldn't even call her back in the houses of healing.
@@bookworm4174 In the book, I got the impression she was always a tough warrior and that all Rohirric women were like that: it is never implied shieldmaidens are uncommon. The words "a cage," and to become old without ever fulfilling "the desire and want to do great deeds" seem to refer to fear of being a prisoner of the orcs in the event Rohan falls, it is just that she began to wonder if Wormtongue's words behind the king's back were right.
Get the logic about them changing Faramir so he wouldnt be stronger than Aragorn in the movie...and at least the extend versions did show a slightly closer version to book.
Jackson is unable to imagine someone more noble than he is.
Again I'm going to have to say it. I've only seen the films both theatrical and extended edition. When it gets to Faramir his portrayal in the books for a character ark and characterization as an unloved second child who feels overshadowed by his much more loved older brothers who just wants to make his father proud is an amazing character journey.
He just wants his father's love.
It's also a bloody cliche and makes an adult man and a leader behave like an insecure teen...
@@reeceemms1643 But Faramir in the books isn’t as bothered by that as Boromir is. Of course he wants his father’s love, but he’s a 36 year old man, he knows if he hasn’t earned his respect by now, he never will, so he doesn’t do things to please Denethor, but instead he does what he believes to be right
I watched the movie before reading the books, so I only knew him that way, and he is my favorite part of the movie, but after the books, I like him more.
I am really enjoying this series, despite saying for the last 20 years that the only way to enjoy Jackson’s movies is to NOT compare them to the books. Maybe they have been around long enough now for the comparisons not to hurt them too much
Thanks for watching! Haha glad you get the format. I love both the movies and books, so I like to nerd out about all the differences. 👀
I will point out that Faramir was Finrod, just as Eowyn was Galadriel. However, before Eowyn it was Borimir who was Galadriel in a more general sense as he also represented the Eldar.. Tolkien clearly sought a reconciliation of all the histories of Middle Earth as they changed hands and became the story of Men. This is clear in the unification of Aragorn and Arwen.
faramir is the badass in this family's story
I would love see general audiences react to book accurate aragorn: "here be Anduril, sword of Elendil and i Aragorn, heir of gondor" 😂
It’s funny both Faramir’s movie portrayal and the elves showing up to help at helms deep are some of my favourite aspects of the two towers, yet they’re PJ creations. I think it’s a great testament to how sticking to the source material isn’t necessarily a must and often deviating can work really well for movie/tv adaptations when done purposefully
You're also slightly wrong about the vision.
Farmer does not ignore it. He just doesn't know who to tell because both bore mayor and his father don't don't necessarily.
Trust. The valor. The brothers have a brief conversation after the first time. Bore mare has the visiand ultimately go to their father where it's decided that bore mayor will go to seek revendal instead.
Glad you’re ok ❤
Unforgivable is what I say all the time about what Peter Jackson did to Faramir.
Appropriately for this time of year, I am thankful for Gibby and these videos.
As I tend to always say, I love both the book and movie versions. However, what bugs me is a small thing. It is Galadriel's lips moving when she "talks" to Elrond. She is using telepathy, so why is she shown talking?
Jackson just made Faramir a little Boromir. Seeming that only seeing the enemies power over the ring changes Faramir's mind. This could have easily happened to Boromir as well. Jackson took away the difference in the 2 brothers and made them clones. I hated that.
Faramir is the greatest man in Gondor. Denethor was also pretty cool and Numenorian-like.
I don’t think they really changed Denethor much. All they did was speed up his descent into madness. Much of what he says are his actual words just said together instead of spread out. Jackson didn’t have a lot of time to convey Denethor’s madness over pages and pages like Tolkien so he combined bits and put them together to emphasize his madness.
As a second son Faramir is my favorite character
Thinking about how wise Faramir was and yet, he did not heed the visions... Interesting...
In the commentaries (everyone here has watched the directors' commentaries, yes?) they point out that book Faramir was logically inconsistent with the narrative of the Ring. EVERYONE is tempted by the Ring (except Tom Bombadil). That is what makes it so dangerous. If Gandalf is scared to even touch it, then what makes Faramir practically immune to it? It's better to show Faramir to be tempted by the Ring, and then overcome temptation.
Disagree. Gandalf and Galadriel know better than to touch it because as mighty beings, they are much more susceptible to its corrupting influence.
Farimir isn’t immune to it ala Bombadil. He’s wise enough to nope out of it based on what he knows of its lore.
I felt like they got a bit too ham fisted with the ring’s evil in the films, but being a visual medium I understand why.
@@rxg9er Faramir isn’t immune to it, he’s just wise enough to know that the ring will corrupt him, that’s why he tells Frodo to keep it out of sight and not mention it again. And their justification in the commentaries would make much more sense, but only Boromir from the Fellowship was properly affected and they invent the scene where Aragorn rejects it, so their discussion in the commentaries doesn’t make sense
The events of the film divert so much at this point that Book Faramir wouldn't have fit well in any case.
They only diverge because of the change. If Faramir had his shit together the Hobbits could have been on their merry way.
When you compare Faramir in relation to Boromir, I really like him, but at the cost of some of my liking for Boromir.
Boromir would've never let his character be assassinated.
*Only in the Extended Edition.
The character in the theatrical release is flat, with barely anything that can be called a personality. The extended edition Faramir, while still unreasonably different from the books, has depth and meaning to his decisions. Given you show scenes from the extended edition I presume that's what you're talking about, but you should have specified.
I absolutely adore Faramir🥰
One of my main issues: How can movie-Denethor know that the Ring has been found?
I don't _dislike_ the Peter Jackson movies by _any_ means - I watch them frequently and enjoy them very much. But it is absolutely in no way an adaptation of The Lord of the Rings - it is a new story heavily "inspired by" The Lord of the Rings. The changes to Aragorn, Gimli, and Faramir, in particular (among all the others you've highlighted and have yet to highlight) make these two _different_ stories, despite all the similarities they do share. These aren't the characters Tolkien wrote, and it's not the story he wrote; it's just remarkably similar in a thousand superficial ways.
I still love Faramir.
I only know this guy as the consummate chain smoker. He's always sucking down cigs online.
I would say that Boromir and even Denethor got a bit butchered for movie drama, but Faramir got the worst end f it, by far.
IMHO PJ accidentally made a great trilogy despite himself. I believe he could have made it even better but glad he did not make it worse.
The AI thumbnails on other videos had me thinking the whole channel was the AI slop stuff that’s all over youtube now, I’m glad you stopped using them I never would’ve clicked
If you are looking just at the film mmm the movies were Based on the BOOKS. That should be the keystone you work with. Peter Jackson messed up a lot in Two towers. I think he did not understand the books as well as he should have. The best of the 3 movies was and is the Fellowship of the Ring. The other two had changes that should not have been made. They show someone did not quite understand the books. As with a lot of movies the actor is fine but he can only work with what he is rold to do.
The movies were long enough without a long character development of freaking Faramir.
I think there should have been 6 films. each book is divided into 2 parts, so if the films had been split like this everything could have been included.
For me, the worst part of the movies was the presence of the Dead at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. It makes a difference if it was a triumph of the normal over the abnormal or if it was just one abnormal against another.
@@christosvoskresye Plus, it robbed us of seeing the Gondorians at their full strength, because they’re portrayed as kind of weak in the films. Would’ve loved to have seen Imrahil and the Swan Knights too
@@Hannah-hq8ne I think you can just look at pictures of the Polish Winged Hussars at the Battle of Vienna and assume you're looking at the same thing.
Oh, I don't believe he was assasinated. He was made diffirently, but still good.
Redeeming character assassination? I'm sorry... How is that remotely possible? There's a reason why they call it character assassination--because it destroys and skews the character in the eyes of the audience. It is defamation, against which the character and the character's fans have absolutely no recourse and from which Faramir, in particular, is unlikely to ever recover because so many people never consult the books. Thus, adaptations have a way of controlling how characters are perceived and portrayed later. The taint and injustice to the character does not just go away. And Jackson does not "redeem" what he does to Faramir. How could he? His version makes Faramir either an idiot whose only excuse is stupidity, ignorance, and poor judgment (exactly the kind of person who should not be in charge and is unworthy of trust as a leader) or a spineless dupe controlled by stronger man (exactly the kind of man who would not let Frodo and Sam go on their way in the end and, again, someone who is dependent on others' approval and should never be Gondor's No 2). The guy knows the Ring corrupts people, but he almost gives the Ring to the Enemy and delayed the journey of the Ring by days...days in which the armies of the West should have been destroyed by Sauron's forces. But, of course, Jackson conveniently ignores any considerations of time or distance when it suits him to do so. There's a reason why Tolkien very carefully worked out the timeline and logistics of what happened and where and when.
Book Faramir did NOT ignore the vision he was sent; Denethor wouldn't let him go but insisted on sending Boromir instead because Boromir wanted the job (and the glory) and probably because Denethor sensed that Faramir was more likely than Boromir to defy Denethor's will if given good-enough reasons.
In the books, Faramir is no stranger to the Nazgul and no stranger to fighting with Sauron's forces; he knows it's only a matter of time before Sauron's forces hit Ithilien hard enough to break all defenses. Even movie-Faramir knows this. You do not send a weapon that would ensure the Enemy's victory straight back into an area that is or will be shortly be controlled by the Enemy. You do not send it into traffic and into the middle of territories where the Enemy will show up; that is exactly how it gets taken and you are entirely to blame for all that ensues. Had Sauron's forces gotten anywhere near Osgiliath, the whole way through Ithilien would have been blocked to Frodo and Sam and the whole gig would have been up. But put some pretty battles on the screen and then ignore visually the fact that (in all probability) the whole area would be occupied by the Enemy and people lose their brains. Only the fact that, as portrayed in the books, the Enemy had not yet established itself to any serious degree in the area when Frodo and Sam came through enabled Frodo, Sam, and Gollum to evade capture. Even if Faramir thought the whole idea of trying to take the Ring to the fire was folly, Middle Earth's chances were a whole lot better if Frodo were left free than if he were hanging around in a war zone or with Gondorian forces.
But, because Jackson insisted on doing things his ways, he had to shoehorn in one of the most disgusting scenes in the movies...the near miss at Osgiliath. Which totally destroys the plausibility of the films, the credibility of the Nazgul, and any credibility Frodo has as well. One of the Nazgul is within feet of Frodo and Frodo is seriously is in its thrall enough to approach and offer the Ring to it, yet somehow the Nazgul doesn't sense the Ring and take it? And Frodo somehow doesn't succeed in giving the Ring to it? Plot-induced incompetence on the part of the bad guys, or what possible nonsense can explain that? If Frodo were that far gone and that close, nothing would have prevented Sauron from regaining the Ring. And, of course, the movies seem to forget that while the Ring always tries to corrupt its bearer and may very well betray its bearer, it also inspires a corresponding covetousness that makes any Ringbearer highly unwilling to give it up to anyone, much less Sauron. That's how Frodo knew he could trust Gollum not to betray them--because he would never, if he had any choice in the matter, hand the Ring over to Sauron and give up any prospect of ever having it himself again. Even when Frodo was overcome, he was not overcome by Sauron's will. No. He had the power of dominating, even if he didn't know how to use it or wouldn't be formidable enough to keep it. Sauron would take the Ring from him easily, but he wouldn't hand it over--either to Sauron or to the Nazgul--if he had any choice. And if Frodo can be overcome so wholly or be so completely in thrall to the Ring so early on, in Ithilien which is not truly under the Shadow yet, how is it remotely plausible that he gets through Mordor without either killing Sam or breaking down and claiming the Ring? And, of course, we're expected to believe that in the course of such a journey to Osgiliath, surrounded by men that have Frodo in their power, the Ring wouldn't wreak havoc to get into the hands of someone more biddable and easier to suborn than Frodo? I hate being expected to turn off my brain in order to have any prospect of enjoying these movies.
It's not just Faramir. Ithilien is the last place where--at least in the books--Frodo really gets the chance to be himself and show why he is the Ringbearer. His knowledge of people and places and his maturity and interpersonal skills are critical in how the whole situation plays out. We see him managing how much to tell Faramir in a way that requires judgment, education, keen intelligence, discernment, and skill Sam simply doesn't have. Further, in the books we see Frodo fight off the influence of the Ring time and time again, and he does NOT offer the Ring to Nazgul or get so crazy as to attack his best friend. Not until after he's already in Mordor and stung by Shelob and captured by orcs. So, without that, of course movie audiences are going to wonder why Sam wasn't just sent to do the job in the first place and Frodo just looks useless and spineless and pathetic and weak. In fact, it makes absolutely no sense in the movies that Frodo was able to make it to Mordor, much less to Mount Doom. If Frodo hadn't trusted Sam implicitly, things would have turned tragic long before Mount Doom.
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1:11 Did you REALLY just say "mediums"!?!? For SHAME, my good sir!! I can't even look at you right now... Much sad; so disappoint...
Fellowship of the Ring is the only watchable movie in the Jackson trilogy
How can you continue to lecture everyone on Faramir when you can't pronounce his name? I can't even focus on what you're saying. Did you not watch any of the movies pronouncing it correctly for hours on end?