How to Rename a Station
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 มิ.ย. 2022
- Spencer Street is one of the oldest railway stations in Melbourne. It's still around but you won't be able to find it under that name. So how do you rename a station and has it been done for other places?
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I acknowledge the traditional owners of the lands on which this video was filmed, the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung people. I pay respects to Elders past, present and emerging, and their extensive and continuing connection to land, water and country.
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My website: philipmallis.com
Museum/Melbourne Central is an interesting one. When the shopping centre was built above the station, the centre asked for the name to be changed to Melbourne Central. The transport authorities asked for several million dollars in return. The centre refused. When the Melbourne Museum moved to Carlton Gardens a few years later, the name was subsequently changed to Melbourne Central and the centre owners didn't have to pay a cent.
I thought they they did actually pay money. It was still Museum for a long time and it was going to become State Library.
The name Melbourne Central makes sense regardless of the shopping centre.
@@pavementpounder7502 perhaps they should have called it Central Melbourne.
@@pavementpounder7502 It doesn’t make a great deal of sense. Internationally ‘Central’ stations are usually major interchanges and often a terminus. Spencer street station is more of a central station than Melbourne central is.
@shraka Its central as in a central location, which it is. I'd say its one of the main unofficial centres of Melbourne, with the State Library too. The other being the GPO, Town Hall, Fed square.
I arrived in Victoria in Oct 2008 and most people I know in Geelong stubbornly still call it Spencer Street, so in order to blend in, so do I!
Ahhhhhhh! I still think of it/call it Spencer St, not out of stubbornness but more out of forgetfulness. I also moved from Melbourne to Geelong before the name change; maybe that’s why I think I forget the name change… perhaps it’s because of the people I am surrounded by…
I think Bayswater Station was originally on the Williamstown line which, to me, makes more sense than where the suburb of Bayswater ended up.
Its not called Museum Station is a surprise, explains that "other" station that suddenly appears "Melbourne Central" :)
One of the things that I am really glad is that I no longer need to go to town. The problem with Suburbia is stations basically take you to or from the CBD.
It will always be Spencer Street Station to me
Me too sistah.
Great video!
When you said that Spencer Street was opened as a second major city station, I feel like you glossed a really interesting bit of history.
Unlike all other Australian states, Victorian railways were originally planned as an entirely private affair. Of the numerous schemes proposed, three companies were granted the right to build railways into the city of Melbourne.
As a result, Melbourne had three downtown terminal stations, each originally proposed by a different private company. Two of these (Flinders Street and Princes Bridge) were originally operated by their respective companies, but Spencer Street was ultimately completed and opened by the Victorian Government when the Melbourne, Mount Alexander and Murray River Railway went broke before they could complete their initial line from Melbourne to Echuca.
Yup. And also why we got the original outer circle railway and the government line from Oakleigh to Gippsland need to reach the city and government Spencer St terminus while avoiding the private lines into the city from the east and south so they deviated right round the outskirts and came
In from the north.
I haven't heard anyone refer to Southern Cross station as "Spencer Street" for years. But I do remember the public urinal decor of Spencer Street Station, particularly the Spencer Street underpass.
I call it Spencer Street.
In Adelaide we have a huge shopping centre called Westfield Marion but the closest raiilway station is called Oalkands and not Marion. There was a motion to change this to Marion (to suit the Westfield facility) but it did not go ahead.
Dear Philip, the other point about Spencer St to Southern Cross, is that as Spencer St it had undergone three rebuilds, intending to transform an inadequate facility into a usable and attractive location. All three were never completed.. So by renaming it to Southern Cross they hoped for better luck, but no, it to has not been completed, and like its predecessors, it too has heavily trafficked portions with poor lighting and awkward layout design. Just go to show, when it comes to Spencer St Railway Station, history does keep repeating itself ! ( And to prove the point, I see that a full set of perfectly readable and legible Metro Blue station signs have been replaced by a lesser number of white station signs that DO NOT stand out. Money would have been better spent on improved lighting.)
Enjoyed that. They spent so much money on Southern Cross and designed a dog of a station. Not enough toilets. Inadequate escalators/stairs at main entrance for people using it. Certainly not enough seating. It seems designed by a committee for appearance and not actual use.
You need to understand, they couldn't just tear everything down and rebuild from scratch such a large transport hub. They needed to be able to keep trains running whilst construction was going on.
Architecturally, it's a beautifully modern station compared to its predecessor, and Grimshaw did what they could in the design with the restrictions that were placed on them. What they need, is to open up the subway again so that people don't have to crowd onto the escalators at either side of the platforms.
I like the design myself
The Ginifer railway station was originally meant to be called Furlong, because it is near Furlong Rd. By the time the station was completed it was decided to change the name to Ginifer, after the recently deceased local Politician Jack Ginifer.
I never did like the idea of Spencer Street Station being renamed Southern Cross. If it was done specifically for the 2006 Melbourne Commonwealth Games, then it should have been changed back to Spencer Street again after the games had been completed. I'm also fairly certain that Carnegie Station was once called Rosstown.
Correct, Carnegie was renamed from Rosstown. Residents voted to change their suburb's name to Carnegie hoping it might attract a donation from the philanthropist.
@@Omegavision79 but the pub remains the Rosstown.
The Southern Cross station name still irks me. It doesn’t roll off the tongue the way Spencer st Station did.
And the name doesn't allude to anything other then ‘hey look, you are in Australia……. Kinda like naming an airline ‘Bonza’
Naming a new thing... it's first and perhaps only name is no problem. Naming an old thing a new name... might be. I still call Southern cross "Spencer st" on occasion.
Exactly and no matter how boring Spencer St as a name was, it defined an area and you know where to look. SC doesn’t. It’s like renaming Flinders St ‘Yarra Central’ - means nothing.
In Kenji Miyazawa's children's classic "Night on the Galactic Railroad", Southern Cross station is the final destination for human souls.
Shit! I hope the afterlife is better than that!
Well Ava Gardner allegedly (though it seems she didnt really) say Melbourne was a fine place to set a film about the end of the world, when she was here to film 'The Beach', filmed in Frankston.
@@pavementpounder7502 Journalist Neil Jillet has always claimed he penned the quote when writing an article about the film.
I still sometimes refer to it as Spencer Street, but I wouldn't say it's a protest against the name change, it's just a name I still associate with that station and I feel no particular need to call it by the new name rather than the old one. Usually I won't even notice I've done it unless someone points it out to me. I also still get funny looks for continuing to refer to Woolies as Safeway for the same reason.
Finally getting the recognition you deserve, love it 💪
another awesome video phillip, love watching your great and informative videos :)
I think the North Melbourne rename made more sense. Not sure about the Emergency Services or infrastructure but if they had renamed it immediately after announcing it would have mitigated the public confusion slightly.
Not to mention the hungry jacks on the bottom of Southern cross station is name spencer street hjs while upstairs store is called Southern cross hjs
This is the first vid of yours I've seen and boy, was it good. As a Melburnian, I appreciate how informative you are. I've now subscribed. Keep up the great work mate.
I’m fascinated by Wyalong Central which had a station building and a station master but was several kilomters from West Wyalong, the town which had a siding but no building, just a nameboard stuck in the ground and was the junction for the Burcher line (with a signal box)
Thanks again... love these videos!
I think the line with the most re-named stations has to be the Alamein line. Riversdale was originally Prospect Hill (though the name changed before it opened, I think), Willison was Golf Links, Hartwell was Hartwell Hill, Burwood was formerly Hartwell (confusing!) and Ashburton used to be Norwood. Only Camberwell at one end and Alamein at the other have remained unchanged - and of course neither of those is really the original end of the old "Outer Circle" line, of which the Alamein Line is a remnant.
And if you want to really confuse people, Hartwell station was originally Wallhalla station, but in this case the building was relocated.
I remember when it was renamed it was referred to in announcements as "Southern Cross on Spencer Street"
I guess keeping a reference to the old name until people get used to just saying Southern Cross.
I never did. I keep forgetting and calling it Spencer.
My local station Glenhuntly,after the level crossing removal and the new station being constructed, the station name is now Glen Huntly with a gap between the words,as the station was originally named,with glen and huntly now being 2 words
Philip. I always enjoy your informative video. I recall 'mocking' the name Tunstall Station as TOADSTOOL. [ps. My Canberra relatives still refuse to use the name Southern Cross Station]
Then you look at Bannockburn changing its town name (and therefore it’s station name) 2 times. Beginning as Leigh Road (1863), changing to Wabdallah (1875) then to Bannockburn (1892). It was easier to change a station’s name back then because how young the stations were and older stations have been called that for a long time which is harder the change amongst members of the public
Sydenham/Watergardens? Actually my Great Grandfather was a school teacher in the Keilor area and one of the schools he taught at was called Keilor Road Station,
thanks! awesome video
Dear Philip, 1/ the reason that many documents, including Signal Diagrams and Wiring Diagrams have not been changed from Spencer St/SSS to Southern Cross/SCS is due to the enormous cost for no practical benefit.2/ It is my understanding that the Kennett Government did fact get paid to allow for the change from Museum to Melbourne Central instead of the originally intended State Library. As the State Museum was moved to Carlton Exhibition Gardens, clearly Museum would need to be changed.Personnally, State Library is preferable.
Lovely mate.. I Miss Spencer Street...
It's still there
Great vid
Please go into great detail on the failure of the roof and why it's STILL bad.
Also the name is bad.
I like the name.
Every time I've used it I'm still dismayed at how such a 'modern' station can be so gloomy. Maybe breathing in the fumes is meant to addle your brain enough so you don't notice.
I can see my house in your opening scene there haha!
I grew up with the name of Spencer Street Station, to me it will always be SSS.
I’m terrible, I still call it Spencer St…not for a protest but because that’s what it was when I first started catching the train. Likewise I still call Melb Central, Museum.
I prefer 'Melbourne Central because the Museum isn't the only attraction in that area.
We have a new station here in Adelaide that needs a rename.
'Adelaide Showgrounds' should be renamed 'Wayville' to reflect the suburb it serves.
I first started travelling through Melbourne's City Loop in 1983 when the Comeng trains were introduced and it's still Australia's best underground rail system, way more beautiful than Sydney's dark, dirty, gloomy underground.
Yeah it makes sense. In a way Melbourne CBD has several 'centres', if you like. Fed Square/Flinders St station, the Town Hall, GPO and Melbourne Central/the State Library.
@@pavementpounder7502 Yes correct.
What would be a fitting name for it if it was to change?
City North?
@@garynewton1263 even just Melbourne Station. But MC is the best i think.
@@pavementpounder7502 Yeah agreed.
I still call it Spencer st station
Great video Philip! How did you find Metro's working timetable?
Gunzels can find anything....
Thanks very much! I went down some rabbit holes and came across a URL for an old working timetable and put that into the Wayback Machine. Came up with this: web.archive.org/web/20150723190721/www.metrotrains.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Metro-Working-Timetable-System-Description-Addenda-18-Sep-2013-including-WT13-2009.pdf
If you want to cover silly names start looking at the new Metro tunnel. Town Hall for something at right angles to Flinders St station and will be connected to it should have had the same name. ANZAC station doesn’t identify the area. State Library again when you are at right angles to MCentral and they should be an interchange sharing the same name. In London or Paris where multiple lines intersect they don’t name the stations 4 different names.
so having a station next to the Shrine of Remembrance isn't a big hint for ANZAC Station. Rememeb these were chosen as a result of peoples suggestions.
@@ianmontgomery7534ANZAC is the name of an army group. Not a location. So no. Unless someone knew Australian history it could be anywhere. Shrine is an actual location. A darn big building. An attraction. And being chosen by the people is hardly a recommendation in itself - we are meant to run railways as functional systems - not based on popularity contests. And were they really voted for or was it a typical government run contest where the winner was always going to be the winner.
@@xr6ladThey weren't voted for - you were asked to send in your suggestions and I guess they picked the either the ones they liked or the most popular.
Unless you know that the building is a shrine the same applies.
I prefer Spencer Street however as Victoria is the home of the Southern Cross in the sky and is closest to it than any other state I suppose it makes sense.
Its the rail hub of Australia anyway so I like it.
Go the Vics.
Spencer did make it easier to navigate to on foot without a map though. These days it doesn't matter as much but it was changed before everyone was carrying a GPS around with them.
How that roof ever got approved with the diesel fuel running from the vline and xpts with no way of escaping. Can be a hard time for asthmatics like myself 😅
Lucky for you the state government requires mandatory masks must be worn at all-time does cloth mask do a great job just ask the government😶🌫️
@@JonJon-dn7hu on the trains it's not the problem. It's on the concourse
@@JonJon-dn7hu Still banging on about that are you?
Isn’t the roof designed to let those fumes out? Pretty sure the highest points of the roof have vents for that reason
@@brunov5309 if it does, it does a pretty darn average job
What about Watergardens? Formerly Sydenham, did the shopping centre pay for the change?
Also with Southland station, a sticking point was that Westfield didn’t want to pay a cent and they didn’t have to in the end.
Naming a station after a shopping centre: OK.
Naming a station after a school adjacent: nope, can't do it as they're non-profit. Hence Middle Gorge instead of Marymede.
Sydenham station was a few hundred metres further north. The current station was Watergardems from the day it opened, when electrification was extended from St Albans.
@@PCLoadLetterThe name for the new station was supposed to be Sydenham but was changed to Watergardens before it opened, that’s why you can see ‘Sydenham’ spelled out in a different colour of bricks in the wall at the station.
@TomIsQuestionable That doesn't change the fact that Sydenham Station was a few hundred metres north of Watergardens Station.
i remember Museum Station but not Spencer Street Station. however, i don't ever remember Melbourne museum not being in Carlton Gardens. strange hodgepodge of memories...
Huntingdale. Huntingdale Railway Station takes its name from Huntingdale Golf Course - it's the only railway station which takes its name from a golf course. The golf course, in a previous incarnation, was the base (home) of the Melbourne Hunt Club - hence Huntingdale Golf Club.
Now that Huntingdale Golf Club is to merge with Metropolitan Golf Club, will the railway station's name be changed to Metropolitan Railway Station?
Southern Cross . Wow . Mind bending originality . These Hominids are worth more money .
Hi Philip. Would you consider making a video on your time as a councillor?
Hi! Thanks I'll add it to my (very long) list of future video ideas
@@philipmallis Thanks !
I honestly don't see what the fuss is about. Southern Cross is a great name to me, referencing the great London terminus of Kings Cross, as well as the constellation of Crux. It also makes a lot of sense. It's at the southern most transport hub on the mainland.
From Southern Cross Station you can take a train to Sydney, take a train to Adelaide, take a tram to a ferry to Tasmania, take a bus to the airport. Take a V/Line train/coach to every corner of Victoria and take a train and tram to every part of Melbourne.
It's the most southerly crossroad in Australia.
It honestly baffles me people don't see the genius in such a name and just bang on about how much they miss Spencer St Station.
You are absolutely right! Naming the station after an adjacent street is incredibly dull in comparison.
@@thurstonkuriata7929 Spencer Street does, however, communicate a little about where it's located, which is useful for a regional hub that will be navigated to by a lot of people not from Melbourne. Southern cross has some vague symbology going for it and that's about it. Not an awful name but from a practical perspective it's a step backwards and not a compelling reason to change the name.
@@shraka Perhaps. But if you are not from Melbourne you probably wouldn't know where Spencer street is anyway. I'd also argue that it does not matter simply because modern navigation makes trip management and directions so easy.
@@thurstonkuriata7929 The name was changed before everyone had GPS. Spencer street is long, so if you’re walking and hit ‘Spencer street’ you know the station is along there somewhere. It also makes it easier to locate on a map. Then there’s the problem of people having to remember the new name, plus all the administrative headaches. I’m a UX designer - the old name communicated better and was more practical.
@@shraka I am aware of when the name was changed. Still think it is preferable as it is now.
Braybrook Junction/Sunshine. Whatever happened to The Man in Grey?
I thought it was a roller coaster when they were building it
Mate, do you remember a the general motor station on the Dandenong line? What happened to it, do a docu video in it mate…..
Thanks for the suggestion! Will add it to the list
do a video on what a shit redevelopment it is. Poor lighting and trapped diesel fumes. Mid platform subway closed. Escalators rarely work. Forced to exit via a roundabout path through shopping areas.
One bin for the entire station
It's a terrible design. They replaced the gloomy pedestrian subway with an entirely gloomy station.
What happened to th mural?
It's still at the site, but it was moved from its original position and is now on the back wall of TKMaxx at DFO Spencer Street: www.flickr.com/photos/philipmallis/52133734074/
Should still be called Spencer St.
should’ve renamed to southern spencer street station
Burwood station is also not in Burwood but Glen Iris.
Due to a 1995 boundary change.
@@Omegavision79 ah that makes sense
A big draughty cavern now.
I wonder if Moreland council will push for Moreland station to be renamed after the LGA changes name.....
Southern Cross isn't a bad name, it just isn't that great either.
Always was Spencer st station always will be Spencer st station
Or as I refer to it as southern crustaceans LoL 🤣
I'm not sure if I dislike the renaming or the rebuilding more. Both wasteful.
Yeah it was so extra
Well suburbs' continue to grow bigger, east can change to west depends where the suburbs' grow. Southern cross is a brilliant name. There is plenty of sticks in mud that stay there for a long time which means nothing. It's another example of Victoria ending at the CBD.
Stop the suburbs "growing bigger"!!!!!
Southern Cross is a pretty terrible name. It doesn't tell you anything about where the station is or how to get to it.
It will always be Spencer St station
I still call it Spencer Street and I live across the road from it
Always hated this station. It stinks of diesel. Great video though!
Bracks was going to change it no matter what.
lotta hate for southern cross in this comment section, yall aint ever seen the shit that is melbourne central
I remain annoyed by the name change. No-one consulted me.
It will always be Spencer St Station to me. #boomer
I'm a millennial and honesty same
@@apseudonym Let's get a Facebook group going - they'll be forced to change... 😉
I'm still salty about the renaming of Spencer Street station tbh
It should never have been renamed.
I was never a fan of the new name, but I laugh at people who still call it Spencer St Station. Seems rather childish to be still protesting the name change almost two decades after the fact, especially since people under a certain age will have no idea what or where you're talking about.
I grew up near Huntingdale Station and not once did I ever hear anyone refer to it as "East Oakleigh".
Why do you add that "acknowledge the traditional owners"...." rubbish? You do films on railways here in Melbourne and broadcast them here on TH-cam, and railways and the very society/nation itself do not exist here without us making, and film and computers are only possible with us having invented them.
Dude shut up with your colonialist nonsense. It's just about paying respect, got it?
Because the land belongs to them. We are all living on stolen land.
I still call it Spencer Street 😂
...and I moved to Queensland in 1983 !
( But I still come back and visit when I can , staying at The Savoy, directly across the road !)