What an eye opener watching these videos on dressage competitions has been. Where I once saw beauty I can now see the pain involved that the horses must endure.
Rollkur is ugly because it is abuse. It causes internal damage: inflammation, ligament disorders, spinal damage - just to name a few. It is the antithesis of good horsemanship. Thank you for exposing the abuse. Dressage is the art of lightness and harmony. Rollkur is the exact opposite: flexing at the 3rd / 4th vetebrae instead of keeping the poll at the highest point, a hollow back with strung-out hindquarters, excessive salivation due to compression of the tongue, salivary glands, trachea, etc. I've ridden dressage my whole life. The idea that anyone would harm a horse and win a dressage test says that judges are as stupid as the abusive riders. They need to fire all the judges and bring in masters from the Spanish Riding School and the Cadre Noir.
in everything I read as a child dressage was described as effortless, the rider not moving, the pair working seamlessly together with no noticeable aids, the horse relaxed & calm, no tail swishing, teeth grinding or frothing. These days its all the above, strange leaning back poses, bumping up & down on the horses back, legs niggling at the side & hands on the mouth, tail swishing & frothing galore. It is not beautiful & effortless at all & has put me right off. Can't see anything better in most other sports either. The liberty stuff & bridleless/bareback is what I admire now.
@@naomipommerel8415 Not all dressage riders abuse their horses. One of the first modern riders to use hyperflexion (rollkur)and compete at top the level was the German Nicole Uphoff. But it became associated with Anky van Grusven, who won many championships on her horse Salinero. Anky brought notoriety when she warmed up Salinero using rollkur and later, the Swedish rider, Patrik Kittel, was filmed by a photographer with his horse's tongue swollen and blue. Rollkur has been banned by the FEI, but until the judges excuse riders from the show ring who present horses obviously trained in that method, nothing will change at the top levels. In order to install better judges, the criteria for selecting them has to change. Fortunately, in the horse world the top competitors are not the most numerous nor do they set the standard for ethical horse lovers. There are far more amateur owners who ride than the professionals. A bit and bridle, used properly, can provide a high level of communication between the horse and rider that is not achieved with a bitless bridle. As for riding bareback, some terrain is far too rugged for that. A well-fitting saddle provides a safer seat and does not disturb the horse. In closing, what is the most suitable for horse and rider should be determined by individual needs and not a statement against perfectly acceptable horse furnishings, simply because some riders abuse their horses.
Another thought as well. Mr Johannessen speaks of the power of images and he is obviously correct. Would it ever be a tide shifter to have photographers of his caliber photographing people who ride differently? In cooperation with the horse? I do believe that telling the truth about horse sports is important! But there are unintended consequences as well...some folks believe that there is no way to interact with the horse in a mutually cooperative and beneficial way. Wouldn't it be a powerful two-pronged approach to not only catch "unfortunate" moments in horse sports AND lovely moments (most likely with a different set of horses and riders) to tune the eye of the public to what is harmonious?
There are no rides at this level that are going to look harmonious in honest photos. But we do try to show people interacting with horses in a mutually respectful way. It's just more difficult than you might think to have that include riding if you don't want to have to selectively edit out any bits that don't look nice for the horse.
Motivation plays an important role for sport-riders AND riders for leisure. The question is how to motivate a horse to do things for you. Should it be just by mechanical means, when necessary with violence and pain, trained by negative reinforcement with intimidation or by influencing the whole animal physically, mentally and emotionally in a positive way? Do you want to have a slave under your seat or would you prefer to have a partnership with a voluntary cooperation? The answer is clear, but the way to achieve quite different from the beginning. The level of motivation depends on the knowledge and skillfulness of the trainer. No question which method is more sustainable and more important for the wellbeing. Abuse is a bad argumentation for motivation.
Open gaping mouths & eyes rolled back in pain from excess bit yanking all over films, literally every scene there is a horse being yanked in the face. As I said on your other video, upload these photos as a proof of what most don't see & let's treat these amazing animals better. No one would do that to a cat or a dog.
If it doesn't feel beautiful you're doing something wrong. We are being desensitized to abuse in every aspect of society. We are getting to the point where ugly is the norm and those of us who point it out are dismissed as being jealous.
What they call motivation is forceful torture. Motivating a horse does not necessarily have to involve force; on contrary, it involves tact, cleverness from the human and understanding of the horses desires and motivators. This is the pity, the lack of personal growth most of the riders lack and justifying the means they are using because the final goal which they think is winning. The ultimate goal should be harmony and willingness of the horse to work for you, non of these are seen in todays modern dressage; and the few that try to go to competitions with that in mind, don’t achieve any results because they are penalised instead of supported. Not a difficult thing to change as it is very obvious when a horse is willingly working, the difficult thing is to change the network of interest and money makers that there is around it.
The question is: Is your motivation warranted in the first place? Watching this chestnut I would say no. She may think she is "breaking up" his resistance in the body, but she is actually creating it down the road.
What an eye opener watching these videos on dressage competitions has been. Where I once saw beauty I can now see the pain involved that the horses must endure.
Glad you like them.
Rollkur is ugly because it is abuse. It causes internal damage: inflammation, ligament disorders, spinal damage - just to name a few. It is the antithesis of good horsemanship.
Thank you for exposing the abuse. Dressage is the art of lightness and harmony. Rollkur is the exact opposite: flexing at the 3rd / 4th vetebrae instead of keeping the poll at the highest point, a hollow back with strung-out hindquarters, excessive salivation due to compression of the tongue, salivary glands, trachea, etc.
I've ridden dressage my whole life. The idea that anyone would harm a horse and win a dressage test says that judges are as stupid as the abusive riders. They need to fire all the judges and bring in masters from the Spanish Riding School and the Cadre Noir.
in everything I read as a child dressage was described as effortless, the rider not moving, the pair working seamlessly together with no noticeable aids, the horse relaxed & calm, no tail swishing, teeth grinding or frothing. These days its all the above, strange leaning back poses, bumping up & down on the horses back, legs niggling at the side & hands on the mouth, tail swishing & frothing galore. It is not beautiful & effortless at all & has put me right off. Can't see anything better in most other sports either. The liberty stuff & bridleless/bareback is what I admire now.
@@naomipommerel8415 Not all dressage riders abuse their horses. One of the first modern riders to use hyperflexion (rollkur)and compete at top the level was the German Nicole Uphoff. But it became associated with Anky van Grusven, who won many championships on her horse Salinero. Anky brought notoriety when she warmed up Salinero using rollkur and later, the Swedish rider, Patrik Kittel, was filmed by a photographer with his horse's tongue swollen and blue.
Rollkur has been banned by the FEI, but until the judges excuse riders from the show ring who present horses obviously trained in that method, nothing will change at the top levels. In order to install better judges, the criteria for selecting them has to change.
Fortunately, in the horse world the top competitors are not the most numerous nor do they set the standard for ethical horse lovers. There are far more amateur owners who ride than the professionals. A bit and bridle, used properly, can provide a high level of communication between the horse and rider that is not achieved with a bitless bridle. As for riding bareback, some terrain is far too rugged for that. A well-fitting saddle provides a safer seat and does not disturb the horse.
In closing, what is the most suitable for horse and rider should be determined by individual needs and not a statement against perfectly acceptable horse furnishings, simply because some riders abuse their horses.
This 'series' was so interesting! Thank you so much for posting these.
Hi Miarou. You're welcome. Stay tuned, because we are in the process of making our video library available for free :)
eponatv please add updates, thanks
Another thought as well. Mr Johannessen speaks of the power of images and he is obviously correct. Would it ever be a tide shifter to have photographers of his caliber photographing people who ride differently? In cooperation with the horse? I do believe that telling the truth about horse sports is important! But there are unintended consequences as well...some folks believe that there is no way to interact with the horse in a mutually cooperative and beneficial way. Wouldn't it be a powerful two-pronged approach to not only catch "unfortunate" moments in horse sports AND lovely moments (most likely with a different set of horses and riders) to tune the eye of the public to what is harmonious?
There are no rides at this level that are going to look harmonious in honest photos. But we do try to show people interacting with horses in a mutually respectful way. It's just more difficult than you might think to have that include riding if you don't want to have to selectively edit out any bits that don't look nice for the horse.
What is the book that Mr Johannessen is reading from? It looks fascinating as is his analysis of "ideal images" and those that are "not spoken about."
Motivation plays an important role for sport-riders AND riders for leisure. The question is how to motivate a horse to do things for you. Should it be just by mechanical means, when necessary with violence and pain, trained by negative reinforcement with intimidation or by influencing the whole animal physically, mentally and emotionally in a positive way? Do you want to have a slave under your seat or would you prefer to have a partnership with a voluntary cooperation? The answer is clear, but the way to achieve quite different from the beginning. The level of motivation depends on the knowledge and skillfulness of the trainer. No question which method is more sustainable and more important for the wellbeing. Abuse is a bad argumentation for motivation.
Open gaping mouths & eyes rolled back in pain from excess bit yanking all over films, literally every scene there is a horse being yanked in the face. As I said on your other video, upload these photos as a proof of what most don't see & let's treat these amazing animals better. No one would do that to a cat or a dog.
If it doesn't feel beautiful you're doing something wrong. We are being desensitized to abuse in every aspect of society. We are getting to the point where ugly is the norm and those of us who point it out are dismissed as being jealous.
What they call motivation is forceful torture. Motivating a horse does not necessarily have to involve force; on contrary, it involves tact, cleverness from the human and understanding of the horses desires and motivators. This is the pity, the lack of personal growth most of the riders lack and justifying the means they are using because the final goal which they think is winning. The ultimate goal should be harmony and willingness of the horse to work for you, non of these are seen in todays modern dressage; and the few that try to go to competitions with that in mind, don’t achieve any results because they are penalised instead of supported. Not a difficult thing to change as it is very obvious when a horse is willingly working, the difficult thing is to change the network of interest and money makers that there is around it.
Thanks for your work.
you are doing "Gods work", please keep up the good fight! thank you for your efforts!
The question is: Is your motivation warranted in the first place? Watching this chestnut I would say no. She may think she is "breaking up" his resistance in the body, but she is actually creating it down the road.
Why is this allowed. It's downright cruelty
We're working on it. Did you find this video because of the book?
Most obvious consequence is lack of hind activity and engagement
Me two for horses💪
Ugh ☹️