This could be an effective tool for trench warfare. As the enemy advances upon your position, you throw this at them and while they try to figure it out, you shoot them with a bolt-action rifle.
@@hoeruokamix Close, but it isn't blow forward, because blow forward means an unlocked breach, much like how blowback means an unlocked (rearward moving) breach. Now, systems are usually named after how they work. Roller delayed is delayed by rollers. Rotating bolts rotate. Recoil operated firearms take their impulse from the recoil. So I'd call this a gas operated, flapper locked, fixed breach sliding barrel firearm.
its a typical Swissway of designation of the Firemode E is for "Einzelfeuer" = Semi-auto M is for "Mitraillieren" (comes from the french word "Mitrailleuse") = Full-auto
What words would be used for safe or locked ect? If one was safe and another was fire. The ring could be the selector (ring at the back above the stock) All hypothetical ofc
Swiss Military: "design us a gun" Swiss designers: "what features should it have? Swiss Military: "er, whatever you like, we're never going to use it in anger"
This was a practical joke by the engineering team at SIG. Clearly the cross of Swiss humor and engineers' humor sailed clean over the heads of everyone. And that catch on the left side is a disassembly lever of sorts - it allows the removal of the magazine; thus disassembles one part.
I was imagining a messy blackboard with chalk outlines of guns and pieces of guns, and the designer looking at it, and he is shocked when he realizes "wait, that will work," and quickly scribbles it down before he forgets.
Why consider it tho? If you have money and time, after being super-neutral and basically untouched by WWII, you can devote yourself to wacky contraptions, no problem!
I think Ian is the only guy who can go into a museum, take stuff apart, put it back together in semi-working order and walk out and the museum is smitten that he visited
My dad and I reseated a dangling pushrod on a big steam engine in the Henry Ford. It made an extraordinarily loud tap as he let go of the rocker arm. Luckily, we had our backs turned by the time the guard came around the corner 🤣
This is the very first comment i have ever made on anything, anywhere on the internet. I just dont do it. However, you sir, deserve massive props for a comment like that. Well done..
Everything metal on this rifle has beautiful machine work expected on something Swiss. The stock however, looks like it was made in a middle school shop class out of some scrap wood found behind a barn.
That's also very Swiss. Swiss soldiers carried their rifles next to their crampons so the spikes on the crampons chewed up the buttstocks. Anyone with a K-31 in a beech stock will recognize the look.
BRUH... the barrel cycles forward... and it has a bayonet lug... CLEARLY they didnt produce these because they created a fully automatic stabbing machine. On second look it wouldn't they missed a good opportunity there.
I'm assuming that the E and the M on the fire control group stand for Einzelfeuer (semi auto) and Mehrfeuer (full auto). You can find similar markings on the SIG 510 (PE 57) rifles. Greetings from Switzerland!
I like that your fire control basically boils down to One Dakka and MORE DAKKA. Are they usually different colors? Usually here in the US, if there are two colors in a fire selector, they are white for safe, and red for fire. Though I suppose if the safety is supposed to be the thing with the striker cocking ring it wouldn't be THAT weird. Or at least no weirder than the rest of this thing.
F ass/Stgw 57 and 90 come with a visible white dot on the side to indicate the full-auto selector is disabled, for shooting ranges. I guess it's why it's red for full-auto
Now that makes sense.. Was failing to figure it out myself. But then again, switzerdeutsch is slighty diffrent to "normal" deutsch. But this is one weird gun anyway.
"Die Armeeversion des Assault Rifle 57 schiesst Einzelfeuer (Sicherungshebel auf Stellung "E") und Dauerfeuer (Sicherungshebel auf Stellung "M" = mitraillieren)."
That seems about right - even thouh I would have thought that M stands for "Maschinen-" or "maschinell"; this would basically be the same M as in "M"G. No clue about the safety though. Nevertheless: Like + answer for your comment to push it up.
glad they put a bayonet lug on this rube goldberg gun so you have a way to actually use it as a weapon (this post brought to you by the imperial japanese army)
That's why we developed Apollo: the Swiss ball pen was way to complicated to reassemble, and too expensive. Particularly these ball-lock mechanisms that only a small Swiss ferderal-subsidized family business produced; grinding the ball into shape manually, one by one.
you got to admire Ian guts here to take apart a weird obscure gun that nobody even knows existed whit all sorts of bits falling off of it while he does and remains calm lol i would be sweating like a madman
The real reason this never saw commercial success was that it was actually the product of a particularly wild night at SIG that no one present actually remembers. There is still extensive debate amongst the survivors as to who actually came up with the idea to this very day.
I've been in brainstorming sessions like that. It's impossible to be sure who thought of the key idea, you just have to put all the names on the patent.
Total boredom - why else come up with a forward operating system. Is it supposed to reduce recoil? That Swiss 7.5 is not an intermediate cartridge, right? Methinks firing it in full-auto would make the M-14 look like a practical design.
@@donjones4719 interestingly there are Other guns With a Forward operating system. Like the Krieghoff Serpio. I think its Just an Experiment For the Designer to Look what Other concepts Work and the companies sell These Things since its a really uncommon system.
@@culture-nature-mobility7867 Yes, but we sometimes had to use those things in an actual war, wich the Swiss don't really have to. That might be an explanation.
@@arnekrug939 Thank you, I almost had beer flying out my nose I was laughing so hard after reading that. In all honesty, I don't think this is an inherently bad system, just that this may be a proof of concept prototype that never got the refinements that most production firearms get. Maybe change the feed system to a rear extracting system like the Bauberg, and simplify some of the components in the breach, for example. Of course, there'd have to be some advantage to this system to make it worth that further development, which is why I suspect this project didn't go anywhere.
The difference is that Germany makes complicated stuff that (a) works, and (b) is able to be efficiently manufactured. Their stuff usually also has a reasonable excuse for it's complexity, such as achieving some kind of desirable outcome. This bizarre creation has no reason for it's complexity. It boggles my mind that it even exists, there is nothing gained here.
This is what you get when a nation of clockmakers make an automatic rifle! Edit: That main spring is a thing of beauty! I've never seen an entwined strand spring in a firearm before. I bet that beast has all the power!
And then someone asked the designer how that clock works would do if it was regularly disassembled and reassembled... The next day the search for a new rifle began again.
They could have added: multiple magazine feed system, integral grenade launcher (that may or may not use the barrels forward momentum as propellant), match grade sights, folding stock & pistol grip, fast takedown system where you fold entire rifle like them origamis, folding quick detach tripod that actuates in 3 or more directions, etc.. You can always add MORE
Wow, guys. I didn't think my statement through very well. I propose we incorporate all your ideas and call it the Sig Thing. Oh, and in true Swiss fation, we mill this whole thing from a single ingot of high carbon steel.
I like how normal Forgotten Weapons videos is usually 1/3 beginnings history of the gun, 2/3 mechanics and disassembly, 3/3 where the gun is now/what happened to it. A gun is SO complicated and has SO little history that it mandated about 20~ minutes of the video just explaining the mechanics and disassembly.
I mean they never really were planning on joining a war anyways, they just needed to be able to tell the time to see who can get the best speed run completion time time for the next world war.
@@BugMagnet Final drive usually refers to the differential (which is incorporated in the transaxle on the civic), the more accurate term would be cv axle or halfshaft. (Not that it matters, the joke is still brilliant anyways lol)
@@fredsmith112 I know I'm a year late, but I'd like to mention that Honda considers the front drive axles the "driveshaft" on the civic (among ALL their fwd cars actually) that's how it comes up when you try to request the part through the program we use to fill out repair orders. The term "axle" only applies to non driven wheels, or rear wheels.
Ahh yes.... this truly is peak Swiss gun craftsmanship. Not only does I require at least three clockmakers and a DMM ( Deutsches Machine Magician) on hand to assemble it properly, you have to speak both German and French to operate it.
We were always told that M on our Fass57 was for Maschinenfeuer. Not saying you are wrong, Just giving what my Swiss German corporal said. Guy was from Lucerne and was in a Ticinese platoon since he spoke Italian.
This gun is insane because the way the feed ramp is and the bolt face is it just seems like a really huge pistol. Minus the LSD expirement of the recoil action
Fun fact, that piston retaining collet is basically a big version of what holds the bit into a Dremel tool. When you tighten the threaded shroud, it compresses the four prongs, squeezing the bit. That's the first thing I thought of when I saw it lol
For a gun that's as over designed as this, it looks like a post apocalyptic diesel punk prop reject. Seriously this thing wouldn't look out of place in Trigun or Mad Max
I actually drew up plans for a prototype machine gun that operates similar to this. So I'll take a crack at what that loop on the back and the switch is for... One issue I ran into with the original design was recocking the firing pin... the action going forward won't recock your typical firing pin (because of the forward motion of the bolt)- Basically, the issue is that the firing pin has to be recocked by a separate action powered by another gas mechanism, which is not an issue when the gun is being fired HOWEVER cocking the gun manually should not prime the firing pin (at least not without some serious complexity). This is because they are two different "gas" operated actions so cocking and (what i call) "priming" the pin requires two separate actions. You have to cock it AND prime the pin to shoot your first round. It is also possible that the different switches maybe disassembles the gas-operated firing pin mechanism. This would mean that the firing pin has to be manually armed after each shot creating the illusion of semi-auto fire... If any of those switches or rotations have any effects on the firing pin, it probably wouldn't be noticed until you fire the gun... One thing I found with this design was that switching to full-auto and semi-auto isn't as easy as it seems. It has to do with timing mostly. When a typical gun recocks, the hammer can't easily fire prematurely because the action in the bolt moving backwards keeps the hammer compressed down and latched differently depending on the fire mode, allowing it to release once the action completes by closing and decompressing the hammer- allowing the hammer to only fire at its appropriate time... For this gun, it is no longer the case. It can fire prematurely if not timed correctly resulting in the firing pin releasing without stricking anything, which means you disrupted the gas cycle, meaning that the pin needs to be reprimed to begin the cycle again... In fact, it would need to be manually "reprimed" in almost any situation where a trigger pull doesn't result in a fired round... You might say "well duh", but the separation between chambering a new round and recocking the hammer means that you have to troubleshoot the gun every time a round doesn't fire... was it a dud? Or did the striker malfunction? One would require cocking/rechambering, the other would require "repriming" (hence why I call it that, because it needs a separate term to prevent confusion). I know that this is why the "repriming" loop is so accessible and obvious in their design (somewhat similar with my first few rough drafts). Now, the barrel... The barrel moves forward with the gun because they also ran into the biggest decision i did: keeping the barrel and chamber connected, or disconnecting the chamber from the barrel... this CAN be done safely enough if done right (cough* cough* revolvers...) but gas will almost certainly leak into the gun without a perfect seal, and this leak increases substantially with barrel length and higher chamber pressures from larger rounds... if the gun is complex, then this extra grime would never work if not dealt with or sealed. You could use that leak to power the piston, but doing so- so soon- is not ideal (and dangerous) with chamber pressures being at their highest peak when beginning its cycle... Having the barrel and chamber connected creates more issues than the obvious moving barrel (that can't be obstructed since it's full motion is required to load the next round), for instance: clearing a stuck casing through, or clearing a jam from the ejection port... A lot of this i actually solved, but all i did was trade simplicity for complexity, which probably couldn't have been done 60 years ago... If you think that any of this can be made simple... you are overlooking many problems (and this is only on paper and considering only foreseeable problems). Lastly, the safety. The safety could actually be working properly, and pulling the trigger is actually safely decocking the gun and not firing it, but i have no way of knowing for sure. With all that said, the guy who thought this up almost certainly did so for the same reason I did: counter-balancing. He wanted to reduce felt recoil, and muzzle climb with fully-automatic fire, increasing the accuracy and comfort of firing large rounds from the shoulder, but it didn't take me long to realize that it would be reallllllly impractical for anything other than small cartridge rounds or long range rifles and the advantages are small... Basically, the age old saying still holds true: you are reinventing the wheel... aaaand don't...
@@SgtKOnyx beat me to it. If it didn't already exist by that stage in firearms history, there's probably a good reason why. Or several good reasons, which you're going to have difficulty counting off because you no longer have fingers.
@@sixstringedthing I bet $5 you could make this concept work and work well. Ditch the annular gas piston, find a better solution for the magazine, and don't let a Swiss watchmaker near it.
@@reaperox_ At least they kicked ass though. Basically nothing could take a Tiger head on and live. This thing is some sort of weird experimental gun so it's no wonder it sucks, and the G-11 may actually have been decent had the Germans been able to use it before the reunification, despite having the Antikythera Mechanism as its firing system and being fed on magic space ammunition that nobody else was using.
@@Omicron9999 German tanks may have been "better" one on one but they weren't ever facing just one tank. Instead they duked it out against a crap ton of "good enough" tanks like the T-34 and Sherman.
I think the safety ring in the horizontal position lets you release the hammer without striking the primer. You can see that it sticks out slightly more when it is in the horizontal position and you pull the trigger
Just for the sake of an intellectual exercise, I'm going to try to put this as simply as I can. =) 1. When you fire, the gas piston is pushed back, compressing the springs, and locks on to the barrel assembly. 2. When the gas pressure subsides, the outer spring acting on the gas piston pulls it, and the barrel assembly with it forward, and the cartridge gets ejected. 3. Once the barrel assembly hits the forward position, the inner spring, acting on the barrel, gets tripped and pushes the barrel backwards to load a new cartridge.
@@damienairalay552 I know what you mean, but for anyone else reading this it's worth saying that "AK" doesn't always refer to THAT kind of AK, in both SIG and Swedish parlance it means "automatic carbine"... =)
It's funny because a few years ago I was thinking about a blow-forward handgun, for the purpose of allowing a slightly longer barrel in a compact package, and no rearward motion (allowing you to cheek-weld a stock), and I wondered to myself: surely I can't be the only one who's thought of this... I wonder why it hasn't been done. Turns out, it's possible, it is just a nightmare.
The SIG AK-53 is not a blow-forward action, rather it is a forward-operating action using a locked breech and a gas system to unlock the breech. There are blow-forward action pistols out there (that are much simpler than a locked breech forward operating system) if you are willing to look up the Mannlicher 1894 or the Schwarzlose Model 1908.
This looks very forward thinking for its time. The designer was clearly trying to create a rifle that provided maximum recoil mitigation for full-power rifle cartridges. It turned out to be too awkward. It's definitely fascinating. Too bad you can't take it to the range. I would like to see what accuracy it was capable of.
Exactly, I really want to see this rifle fire, with the muzzle brake, low cyclic rate in full auto, and mass reciprocating forward I have a feeling it would be one of the most controllable and comfortable full powered rifles ever built. Very interesting design.
I feel like this was at some point a brilliantly simple concept, but it didn't quite work. So they added a few more parts, and added a few more parts, and added a few more parts, until it was a glorious mess. Like, in theory, there's all of three or four moving parts here. But they need so many weird and janky supporting structures, it stops being simple.
I think you are onto something there. I can imagine how this thing is suppose to work in my head. It seems simple enough. Then you look at the actual rifle.
I think this might just be a proof of concept for the operating mechanics and it never received further development. Would explain why the stock looks like it was an afterthought and the magazine was rigged up just enough to work without making much sense.
It is actually quite simple. If you compared it to the rifles we use today without knowing anything about guns, it would actually be simpler and would make sense much quicker. The only problem it has in its design is that everybody already used different system at its time. And this different system was proven by the war which made it even more desirable.
1920's Management: Think outside the box. There are no boundaries. We want to explore all options. 1930's SIG Engineers: Done! 1940's Management: After much work, you guys seem to have made an exceptional sample of SIG engineering prowess. Very efficient. A lot of good engineering work. Let's kick it up a notch and see how much more you can do boosted up on meth. 1950's SIG Engineers: Done! There, I fixed it for you, bro.
Hello Ian, first of all, thank you very much for the report on this truly special weapon. Looking at the gun I immediately notice the relationship to the semi-automatic blow forward Volkssturmkarabiner in caliber 7,92x33 of the Hessische Industrie Werke and its designer August Coenders. The weapon you present seems to be a further development of the Coenders design. Instead of a recoil forced operation forward bolt it was changed to a gas pressure loader and instead of an integrated magazine a magazine to change was developed. It would be great if you would do an episode about the Coenders development - maybe there are model replicas of the semi-automatic construction or 3D models to explain it an built a bridge to SIG AK-53.
A great day for imperium! A priest of Adeptus Mechanicus has solved yet another secret of the mysterious relic weapons from the dark age of technology. He also documented it well, so this sacred knowledge shall never again be lost to us.
That's the important thing. Before we had one diagram in one book. Now we have an actual recorded breakdown. That is huge from a historical archive standpoint.
The disassembly was really interesting. I don't know why you skipped the swiss watch assembly part but the part with putting back the chocolate factory together was very interesting.
@@gregoryfilin8040 I still love the Furrer Submachine gun. "We might get invaded any day, let's design a toggle-based monstrosity that will cost 5 times any other sub gun!"
"The World's assault rifles says that this is a disassembly lever, which it very much is not. There is no disassembly lever." I feel your frustration. At first I thought it was just me.
I'd call that four-pronged thing a "collet". On a Dremel Multitool, the "collet" looks and operates very similarly. It sits in a cup on the end of the motor shaft, receives the bit, and is pressed closed with the "collet nut". That assembly on the rifle also looks a lot like the length-adjustment joint on the bottom of a Flowmaster replacement toilet valve.
Just the fact that you have to push the charging handle forward would totally make me useless trying to operate this gun. It would be like riding that bicycle where the handlebars turn the wheel in the opposite direction.
It took me a while Iain, but I finally tracked down what that persistent knocking sound was throughout the video. It was the Senior Armourer in Leeds banging his head off the wall, during the take-down and reassembly. It's OK though, the psychiatrist says that he'll make a full recovery after therapy :-) Seriously though, I loved this one...not often that we you seriously engaged and intrigued, to this extent..it serves to highlight your expertise, and your passion for what you do... Thank you Jim
Failed and overly complicated designs like this can’t help but make you admire the simplicity and elegance of firearm designs that continue to persist.
Don't be dumb. The first gun is always expensive, and usually too complex. The question is was it too expensive to mass produce, and too complex for what it did, and the answer is yes.
Have you seen the Germans? Look at the Tigers and Panthers, those things were ridiculous. These are the people who invented clocks(spring driven ones anyway). Germanic people love their complicated machines.
It seems, that the recocking hook is running under the mystery lever. On 22:28 its on E and fails to recock. Maybe it stand for Einzel, disconnecting the hook and you have to manually recock, so the gun has an auto and a "semimanual" setting. A repeater, where you only have to run the firingpin and not the hole bolt.
This could be an effective tool for trench warfare. As the enemy advances upon your position, you throw this at them and while they try to figure it out, you shoot them with a bolt-action rifle.
underrated comment lmao 😆
Lol!!!!😂😂
You know it's a weird gun if Ian isn't sure how to classify its operation.
You know it's a weird gun when Ian calls at least one component 'the thing'
"Clock Maker's Nightmare."
There, it's properly classified now.
@@crimsonhalo13 I think the G11 still has that title locked down
Blow forward Piston delayed flapper lock?
@@hoeruokamix Close, but it isn't blow forward, because blow forward means an unlocked breach, much like how blowback means an unlocked (rearward moving) breach.
Now, systems are usually named after how they work. Roller delayed is delayed by rollers. Rotating bolts rotate. Recoil operated firearms take their impulse from the recoil.
So I'd call this a gas operated, flapper locked, fixed breach sliding barrel firearm.
9:35 *Ian removes the single largest spring ever seen in a firearm*
"This guy is one of two springs..."
It flopped around like a fake dong
That's not the spring for the gas piston, that's the slinky I lost 8 years ago after my brother threw it down the stairs.
Yes that spring was endless
*1911 spring flashbacks*
Go look at 7 shell shotgun tube spring
its a typical Swissway of designation of the Firemode
E is for "Einzelfeuer" = Semi-auto
M is for "Mitraillieren" (comes from the french word "Mitrailleuse") = Full-auto
What words would be used for safe or locked ect?
If one was safe and another was fire. The ring could be the selector (ring at the back above the stock)
All hypothetical ofc
I know they aren’t that similar, but I always think of feuer as “celebration”
Then it doesn’t have a safety switch?
@@david066666666 its the ring at the back like on a K31
"M" stands for "Mechanisches entladen" (mechanic unloading) ;-)
Swiss Military: "design us a gun"
Swiss designers: "what features should it have?
Swiss Military: "er, whatever you like, we're never going to use it in anger"
Swiss designers: You do understand that my expertise is clocks and watches?
Swiss Military: Yeah, we don't care. Design us a gun.
@@marc-andreservant201 clock, glock, practically the same thing i'm sure, you'll do fine.
@@charliedulol Daily reminder that the Glock was made by a company previously known for making plastic curtain rods and door knobs.
@@Allstar-yl1ek with the main production centre in a garage
@@Sk0lzky wow...really?
This was a practical joke by the engineering team at SIG. Clearly the cross of Swiss humor and engineers' humor sailed clean over the heads of everyone. And that catch on the left side is a disassembly lever of sorts - it allows the removal of the magazine; thus disassembles one part.
When you watch the video with that being the assumption, it's actually pretty hilarious and seems highly likely.
Early example of California compliance. Magazine is fixed until disassembly
Swiss firearms designers, late in the evening after a long day at work:
"You think that's a weird operating system? Ha! Here, hold my bier..."
Perhaps SIG hired a watch maker?
To develope the back then new style guns that not only go tok.
But tik tok, tik tok, tik tok.
Let's just call it the Clock Maker's Nightmare.
Your gunsmiths were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.
THIS. I was thinking of that exact quote about halfway through the video!
Nature will find a way to make guns like this not exist.
I was imagining a messy blackboard with chalk outlines of guns and pieces of guns, and the designer looking at it, and he is shocked when he realizes "wait, that will work," and quickly scribbles it down before he forgets.
Why consider it tho? If you have money and time, after being super-neutral and basically untouched by WWII, you can devote yourself to wacky contraptions, no problem!
exactly.. its as if the world has forgotten the inventors of the wacky, waving, whaling, inflatable armed tube-man were swiss. @@rodrigogascagomez5190
20:30
"The way this is supposed to work..."
>moment of silence
>sigh of frustration
I think it's called a collet.
I think Ian is the only guy who can go into a museum, take stuff apart, put it back together in semi-working order and walk out and the museum is smitten that he visited
It probably helps that he has a few thousand videos showing that he is careful and trustworthy with really rare pieces
I once saw a DW documentary when a 14 YO russian girl disassemble and assemble an AK in a few seconds.
@@CameraHam that's the power of reputation honestly. Ian has an amazing reputation, that's extremely consistent
My dad and I reseated a dangling pushrod on a big steam engine in the Henry Ford. It made an extraordinarily loud tap as he let go of the rocker arm. Luckily, we had our backs turned by the time the guard came around the corner 🤣
Museums have a display section and archive section. The latter is physically handled all the time.
Me, the viewer: "Wow, that looks surprisingly crude for a Swiss gun
Ian pulls the mechanism out the back: *Swiss anthem begins playing at high volume*
This is the very first comment i have ever made on anything, anywhere on the internet. I just dont do it. However, you sir, deserve massive props for a comment like that. Well done..
@@BSpacc13 i don't think this comment was really worthy of your reply. You should have kept it for another one
@@Bolognabeeflmfao honestly i kinda of agree
@@hboyO2kinda like asking for a happy meal for your make a wish
@@katinmazniv4714 lol
Everything metal on this rifle has beautiful machine work expected on something Swiss. The stock however, looks like it was made in a middle school shop class out of some scrap wood found behind a barn.
That's also very Swiss. Swiss soldiers carried their rifles next to their crampons so the spikes on the crampons chewed up the buttstocks. Anyone with a K-31 in a beech stock will recognize the look.
uzi75020 Hey! I created the ak after shop behind the barn. Don’t forget.
@@stuartdodson6630 I built a crossbow out of an old 2x4, so nothing's wrong with scrap wood! It just seems odd on that gun.
I thought it looked like something I would make in freshman wood shop
It was sort of a prototype, function was all that mattered. lf it made it into production it would surely have had a prettier look.
Can’t tell you how much I want to see slow motion footage of this thing running
BRUH... the barrel cycles forward... and it has a bayonet lug... CLEARLY they didnt produce these because they created a fully automatic stabbing machine.
On second look it wouldn't
they missed a good opportunity there.
Swiss Sewing machine
@@Voron_Aggrav This is genius and absolutely made my day!
@@DualDesertEagle you'd only make Swiss cheese out of someone's clothing instead of repairing it
@@Voron_Aggrav Dude, ur killin' me! 🤣
Damn that would be terrifying lol
I'm assuming that the E and the M on the fire control group stand for Einzelfeuer (semi auto) and Mehrfeuer (full auto). You can find similar markings on the SIG 510 (PE 57) rifles. Greetings from Switzerland!
I like that your fire control basically boils down to One Dakka and MORE DAKKA.
Are they usually different colors? Usually here in the US, if there are two colors in a fire selector, they are white for safe, and red for fire. Though I suppose if the safety is supposed to be the thing with the striker cocking ring it wouldn't be THAT weird. Or at least no weirder than the rest of this thing.
F ass/Stgw 57 and 90 come with a visible white dot on the side to indicate the full-auto selector is disabled, for shooting ranges. I guess it's why it's red for full-auto
I agree, M could stand for "Maschinenfeuer" = 'machine fire'
Now that makes sense.. Was failing to figure it out myself. But then again, switzerdeutsch is slighty diffrent to "normal" deutsch. But this is one weird gun anyway.
"Die Armeeversion des Assault Rifle 57 schiesst Einzelfeuer (Sicherungshebel auf Stellung "E") und Dauerfeuer (Sicherungshebel auf Stellung "M" = mitraillieren)."
You need a bachelor’s degree to fire the gun
A Masters degree for disassembly
And a Ph.D. to design it .....
It's probably
E = Einzel as in single
M = Mehrfach as in multiple
mehrfach off.. this is why yer still einzel. :D
E=every time you shoot it gets weird
M= man this is REALLY weird
That seems about right - even thouh I would have thought that M stands for "Maschinen-" or "maschinell"; this would basically be the same M as in "M"G.
No clue about the safety though.
Nevertheless: Like + answer for your comment to push it up.
E= everybody cover me, guns jammed
M= Mhm, I'll "cover" you... *throws jammed gun at enemy *
ctillich Better explanation than mine.
He sounds so uncharacteristically...confused going over this poor abomination.
Exactly why I love this channel though; great stuff.
Every step of the disassembly had me and my girl both going "Wait what? Why?"
That happens a lot on this channel, mostly with guns where the origin is unknown.
I think this the first time I've heard him refer to something as a thing he didn't have a name for it so it just became thing
17:13 you know this gun is extremely weird when Ian refers to something as "thing"
I laughed so hard when he said that.
glad they put a bayonet lug on this rube goldberg gun so you have a way to actually use it as a weapon
(this post brought to you by the imperial japanese army)
@@borismuller86 except the lug is on the barrel jacket, which doesn't move. Sorry to run your joke.
Tunkkis we can dream can’t we?
Tunkkis yeah I realised that and it made me sad. My way would have been pretty silly. Probably would have fallen off constantly.
@@Tunkkis so it helps you to easily extract the blade of the bayonet from the body of the enemy!
Dusty Boots
Could be called a bayonet assisting design
The Swiss Machinist Union loved this gun. I suspect the Saturn 5 rocket was just a modified and re-purposed Swiss made ball-point pen.
😂
That's why we developed Apollo: the Swiss ball pen was way to complicated to reassemble, and too expensive. Particularly these ball-lock mechanisms that only a small Swiss ferderal-subsidized family business produced; grinding the ball into shape manually, one by one.
@@cloudbuster8819 They're better off making space watches.
@@JonatasAdoM Are they still Swiss? Did not Viktor Vekselberg buy the Swiss Space watch businesses up, and integrate them into his Renova Group?:D
you got to admire Ian guts here to take apart a weird obscure gun that nobody even knows existed whit all sorts of bits falling off of it while he does and remains calm lol
i would be sweating like a madman
field stripping this gun is like trying is disarm a bomb.
Because he sits there 15 hours a day reading about guns like this and studying schematics.
@@ironleeFPS He says in the video that he had to figure it out
You know you're in for a good time when the video is 25 minutes long and the history segment ends at 1:30
Indeed
I only watch for the history part
E: Everyone around you isn't safe
M: Maybe it will shoot
I was thinking that M was for Machinegewehr for automatic
@@HavanaSyndrome69 And E for Ein - one
I assume E mean Einzelschuss (single shot) and M means likely Maschienegewehr (multi shot)
@@passafar1 thats should be correct ;-)
Electronic
Manual
What does that mean? Who knows?
when you see Ian struggling with a gun...you know it is a rare gun
Weird guns like this are the reason why I watch this show
You made it about 45 seconds into the breakdown and I knew this was gonna be good
Yeah, I never thought I would see Ian would have a breakdown 45 seconds into disassembling a gun.
Somebody at Sig actually sat down and came up with all of this on paper. I'm amazed by this thing.
That wood grip looks like the one of the homemade rifles from the poaching ep
“Do you want a blow forward or blow back rifle?”
Yes.
As Long as it doesn't Blow Up! don't care.
The real reason this never saw commercial success was that it was actually the product of a particularly wild night at SIG that no one present actually remembers. There is still extensive debate amongst the survivors as to who actually came up with the idea to this very day.
"Give it a serial number and never speak of this again."
Oh, the man responsible knows the truth, he just won't admit I for fear of the shame and possible exile.
Taka Takarra “the survivors” haha
I've been in brainstorming sessions like that. It's impossible to be sure who thought of the key idea, you just have to put all the names on the patent.
Within 3 seconds of him starting disassembly with that mag release I was already thinking "Jeeeeeeesus Christ".
No "tactical mag change" for this gun, that's for sure.
This must be the work of engineers, that got totally bored of gun operating concepts since. There are mechanical calculators, that have less parts.
its actually a puzzle for Chris Ramsay
Total boredom - why else come up with a forward operating system. Is it supposed to reduce recoil? That Swiss 7.5 is not an intermediate cartridge, right? Methinks firing it in full-auto would make the M-14 look like a practical design.
@@donjones4719 interestingly there are Other guns With a Forward operating system. Like the Krieghoff Serpio. I think its Just an Experiment For the Designer to Look what Other concepts Work and the companies sell These Things since its a really uncommon system.
There are mechanical calculators with no moving parts: th-cam.com/video/IxXaizglscw/w-d-xo.html
Shoutout to my abacus
H und K: We make complicated stuff with lots of parts!
Sig: Hold my beer.
They have more dark winter to dick around.
And I thought german companies were known to be overengineering their stuff...
@@culture-nature-mobility7867 Yes, but we sometimes had to use those things in an actual war, wich the Swiss don't really have to.
That might be an explanation.
@@arnekrug939 Thank you, I almost had beer flying out my nose I was laughing so hard after reading that.
In all honesty, I don't think this is an inherently bad system, just that this may be a proof of concept prototype that never got the refinements that most production firearms get. Maybe change the feed system to a rear extracting system like the Bauberg, and simplify some of the components in the breach, for example. Of course, there'd have to be some advantage to this system to make it worth that further development, which is why I suspect this project didn't go anywhere.
The difference is that Germany makes complicated stuff that (a) works, and (b) is able to be efficiently manufactured. Their stuff usually also has a reasonable excuse for it's complexity, such as achieving some kind of desirable outcome. This bizarre creation has no reason for it's complexity. It boggles my mind that it even exists, there is nothing gained here.
This is what you get when a nation of clockmakers make an automatic rifle!
Edit: That main spring is a thing of beauty! I've never seen an entwined strand spring in a firearm before. I bet that beast has all the power!
And then someone asked the designer how that clock works would do if it was regularly disassembled and reassembled...
The next day the search for a new rifle began again.
we'll call this thing the...thing. This may be the most Swiss firearm I have ever seen. I am not sure how they could have made this any more complex.
You can always add more pieces
Could've used a balanced recoil-system, hyperburst functionality, and progressive belt feed.
They could have added: multiple magazine feed system, integral grenade launcher (that may or may not use the barrels forward momentum as propellant), match grade sights, folding stock & pistol grip, fast takedown system where you fold entire rifle like them origamis, folding quick detach tripod that actuates in 3 or more directions, etc..
You can always add MORE
Just add toggle lock
Wow, guys. I didn't think my statement through very well. I propose we incorporate all your ideas and call it the Sig Thing. Oh, and in true Swiss fation, we mill this whole thing from a single ingot of high carbon steel.
The Swiss engineers forgot they weren't designing a watch.
Exactly what I thought!
Or.... The watch engineers got ask to design a rifle
But what a complication.
- Captain, do I have to field strip my weapon?
- Yes, like any other gun.
- Can we just never go to war then?
I like how normal Forgotten Weapons videos is usually 1/3 beginnings history of the gun, 2/3 mechanics and disassembly, 3/3 where the gun is now/what happened to it. A gun is SO complicated and has SO little history that it mandated about 20~ minutes of the video just explaining the mechanics and disassembly.
Terrible rifle, but very accurate clock.
There's a box of chocolate in the stock.
Swiss have to make everthing with a loud koko bird.
Wonder if there's chocolates in the buttstock
I mean they never really were planning on joining a war anyways, they just needed to be able to tell the time to see who can get the best speed run completion time time for the next world war.
It just ticks rather loudly..
Ian pulls out a Honda Civic final drive shaft. "This is the gas piston."
And thus the McGuffin was a little front heavy.
Honda civic is front wheel drive therefore has no drive shaft
@@fredsmith112 I said final drive. How do you suppose it gets torque to the wheels? Through the power of love?
@@BugMagnet honda, the power of dreams
@@BugMagnet Final drive usually refers to the differential (which is incorporated in the transaxle on the civic), the more accurate term would be cv axle or halfshaft. (Not that it matters, the joke is still brilliant anyways lol)
@@fredsmith112 I know I'm a year late, but I'd like to mention that Honda considers the front drive axles the "driveshaft" on the civic (among ALL their fwd cars actually) that's how it comes up when you try to request the part through the program we use to fill out repair orders. The term "axle" only applies to non driven wheels, or rear wheels.
That looks exactly like a gun every kid draws when trying to draw an AK from memory.
If you'd put this video out on the 1st of April no one would believe this gun was real.
“I broke it, and um...I’m gonna leave now.”
Shhh....maybe they won't notice....
Beautiful machining throughout. Considering this was in days before CNC, there were some highly talented people making those rifles.
This thing seems like it was designed by a garage door company. 27 feet of springs.
With a bayonet affixed to the barrel, this would make a great S.A.W..
Maybe it would have had commercial success if it was marketed as an automatic saw, rather than a firearm.
I audibly loled when I read this
For wood or suppressive fire because saw back bayonets are frowned apon
@@brocksdaddy081910 how would you even "laugh out loud" without making a sound....
@@Callsign_Jaeger I guess "litterally" is the word I should have used.
Everyone: Who the hell wants this thi-
Elbonian Military Commander: How many can you make? Does it come in 7.62x45?
u mean 7.62x39? cause 7.62x45 is a round used for a mere 5 years in the USSR for 3 WW2 era guns
@@nguyen-vuluu3150 he meant 7.62x7.62cmR
the elbow people will conquer the world!
@@kylehagertybanana "elbow people". lmao.
"Can it use highly corrosive ammunition?"
E mean Einzelfeuer(Single Shot) M means mitraillieren( Full Auto) it comes from the French word for Machine Gun, Mitrailleuse.
Ahh yes.... this truly is peak Swiss gun craftsmanship. Not only does I require at least three clockmakers and a DMM ( Deutsches Machine Magician) on hand to assemble it properly, you have to speak both German and French to operate it.
Thanks buddy.
Very potentially part of the other French influence as well... Nice.
I was thinking mitrailleuse. But the best I had for E was en garde.
We were always told that M on our Fass57 was for Maschinenfeuer.
Not saying you are wrong, Just giving what my Swiss German corporal said.
Guy was from Lucerne and was in a Ticinese platoon since he spoke Italian.
The more I see it come apart the more I'm convinced I am that I'll be reassembling it in my nightmares for as long as I live.
This gun is insane because the way the feed ramp is and the bolt face is it just seems like a really huge pistol. Minus the LSD expirement of the recoil action
17:16 The Fantastic Sig: Mr. Coilspring, Miss Invisible Safety, Johnny Gasport & The Barrel-Thing! Imagining 4 Swiss Superheroes....
I'm callin Blitzmensch
You Sir made my day. :) Regards from Switzerland
This is a fuckin quality comment and funny as hell. Also made my day.
LMFAO
@@CHmale81 Was a pleasure. Greetings back from Germany :)
"That's unnecessarily overly complicated!" -R. Goldberg
Ian out here enthusiastically teaching people how to solve puzzles that history deemed not with solving. The GOAT.
"Must we do a field strip for cleaning after an engagement ?"
"As any other gun,yes."
" Ah,hmmm.It would be wise to become a neutral nation !"
war is hard work that really ain't worth it most of the time.
Lol
"I think that is most we need to talk about".
No Ian, this rifle has a lot more to talk about. This gun is nuts.
Fun fact, that piston retaining collet is basically a big version of what holds the bit into a Dremel tool. When you tighten the threaded shroud, it compresses the four prongs, squeezing the bit. That's the first thing I thought of when I saw it lol
"I'll bet you cant design a gas operated blow forward rifle."
SIG designer: "Hold my beer...."
More like "hold my acid" because whoever made this was trippin
Hold my watch, its a tourbillion.
The weapon has already failed when it takes 10 minutes to describe how the magazine works.
Anything original takes time to explain
Ie. How does a microprocessor work?
@Anthony Swiss as an IT professional, i say you nailed it.
@@jerkfudgewater147 ...Thats not how it works.
@@mbsb1376 a magazine is very rarely complicated by intention they are supposed to be fairly disposable
@@michaelkeha I mean, I was talking about "anything original takes time to explain", and I was disagreeing. Yes, magazines are easy to explain.
For a gun that's as over designed as this, it looks like a post apocalyptic diesel punk prop reject.
Seriously this thing wouldn't look out of place in Trigun or Mad Max
The curtains sure as hell don't match the drapes. The outside screams improvised weaponry while the inside looks like precision machinery circa 1950.
@@mikespongili8254 Maybe the swiss should stick to making watches.
And yet I have a feeling this gun wouldn't last a week in the field.
@@FinalManaTrigger Probably not
Or Fallout, Metro, etc.
Help me Ian, my select fire pogo stick is broken.
Is it stuck in full semi auto?
Have you tried turning it on and off?
This is the classic swiss humor of „because i can and you cant stop me“
I actually drew up plans for a prototype machine gun that operates similar to this. So I'll take a crack at what that loop on the back and the switch is for...
One issue I ran into with the original design was recocking the firing pin... the action going forward won't recock your typical firing pin (because of the forward motion of the bolt)- Basically, the issue is that the firing pin has to be recocked by a separate action powered by another gas mechanism, which is not an issue when the gun is being fired HOWEVER cocking the gun manually should not prime the firing pin (at least not without some serious complexity). This is because they are two different "gas" operated actions so cocking and (what i call) "priming" the pin requires two separate actions. You have to cock it AND prime the pin to shoot your first round.
It is also possible that the different switches maybe disassembles the gas-operated firing pin mechanism. This would mean that the firing pin has to be manually armed after each shot creating the illusion of semi-auto fire... If any of those switches or rotations have any effects on the firing pin, it probably wouldn't be noticed until you fire the gun...
One thing I found with this design was that switching to full-auto and semi-auto isn't as easy as it seems. It has to do with timing mostly. When a typical gun recocks, the hammer can't easily fire prematurely because the action in the bolt moving backwards keeps the hammer compressed down and latched differently depending on the fire mode, allowing it to release once the action completes by closing and decompressing the hammer- allowing the hammer to only fire at its appropriate time...
For this gun, it is no longer the case.
It can fire prematurely if not timed correctly resulting in the firing pin releasing without stricking anything, which means you disrupted the gas cycle, meaning that the pin needs to be reprimed to begin the cycle again...
In fact, it would need to be manually "reprimed" in almost any situation where a trigger pull doesn't result in a fired round...
You might say "well duh", but the separation between chambering a new round and recocking the hammer means that you have to troubleshoot the gun every time a round doesn't fire... was it a dud? Or did the striker malfunction? One would require cocking/rechambering, the other would require "repriming" (hence why I call it that, because it needs a separate term to prevent confusion).
I know that this is why the "repriming" loop is so accessible and obvious in their design (somewhat similar with my first few rough drafts).
Now, the barrel...
The barrel moves forward with the gun because they also ran into the biggest decision i did: keeping the barrel and chamber connected, or disconnecting the chamber from the barrel... this CAN be done safely enough if done right (cough* cough* revolvers...) but gas will almost certainly leak into the gun without a perfect seal, and this leak increases substantially with barrel length and higher chamber pressures from larger rounds... if the gun is complex, then this extra grime would never work if not dealt with or sealed.
You could use that leak to power the piston, but doing so- so soon- is not ideal (and dangerous) with chamber pressures being at their highest peak when beginning its cycle...
Having the barrel and chamber connected creates more issues than the obvious moving barrel (that can't be obstructed since it's full motion is required to load the next round), for instance: clearing a stuck casing through, or clearing a jam from the ejection port...
A lot of this i actually solved, but all i did was trade simplicity for complexity, which probably couldn't have been done 60 years ago... If you think that any of this can be made simple... you are overlooking many problems (and this is only on paper and considering only foreseeable problems).
Lastly, the safety.
The safety could actually be working properly, and pulling the trigger is actually safely decocking the gun and not firing it, but i have no way of knowing for sure.
With all that said, the guy who thought this up almost certainly did so for the same reason I did: counter-balancing. He wanted to reduce felt recoil, and muzzle climb with fully-automatic fire, increasing the accuracy and comfort of firing large rounds from the shoulder, but it didn't take me long to realize that it would be reallllllly impractical for anything other than small cartridge rounds or long range rifles and the advantages are small...
Basically, the age old saying still holds true: you are reinventing the wheel... aaaand don't...
SIG AK-53: A truly fair argument against recreational drug use
Well LSD was curiously invented in Switzerland around the same time.
I was just thinking that Serious amounts of mind altering chemicals had been abused in order for this to come into existence!
(Patton Oswalt voice)
MMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETH!
Thanks, I just spit coffee all over my laptop.......
(Hits blunt)...... What if we made a gun that worked backwards....
You never know if it will work until you try... But you kinda know
Sometimes the fact that it "hasn't been done before" is because it is actually a bad idea
@@SgtKOnyx beat me to it.
If it didn't already exist by that stage in firearms history, there's probably a good reason why. Or several good reasons, which you're going to have difficulty counting off because you no longer have fingers.
Your profile picture looks like an x-ray of Joseph Stalin's face
@@sixstringedthing I bet $5 you could make this concept work and work well. Ditch the annular gas piston, find a better solution for the magazine, and don't let a Swiss watchmaker near it.
@@polygondwanaland8390 "and don't let a Swiss watchmaker near it.".......but then your rate of fire won't stay consistant
Watching the disassembly ,you can kinda get why it never went anywhere, truly a forgotten weapon !!!
If you were to look up "overengineering" in a dictionary you would just find a picture of this.
This and a G11
And most WWII German tanks from the late war era
@@reaperox_ At least they kicked ass though. Basically nothing could take a Tiger head on and live. This thing is some sort of weird experimental gun so it's no wonder it sucks, and the G-11 may actually have been decent had the Germans been able to use it before the reunification, despite having the Antikythera Mechanism as its firing system and being fed on magic space ammunition that nobody else was using.
@@Omicron9999 German tanks may have been "better" one on one but they weren't ever facing just one tank. Instead they duked it out against a crap ton of "good enough" tanks like the T-34 and Sherman.
Omicron9999 tigers were moderately effective on the battlefield but a logistical nightmare
I think the safety ring in the horizontal position lets you release the hammer without striking the primer. You can see that it sticks out slightly more when it is in the horizontal position and you pull the trigger
25 minutes later, I still dont know how it works, but neither does Ian, lol
Just for the sake of an intellectual exercise, I'm going to try to put this as simply as I can. =)
1. When you fire, the gas piston is pushed back, compressing the springs, and locks on to the barrel assembly.
2. When the gas pressure subsides, the outer spring acting on the gas piston pulls it, and the barrel assembly with it forward, and the cartridge gets ejected.
3. Once the barrel assembly hits the forward position, the inner spring, acting on the barrel, gets tripped and pushes the barrel backwards to load a new cartridge.
@@jubuttib thank you sir! Helped a lot!
I think I get it. Point click and whatever the cursor was hovering over is dead. So it works like any other gun.
@@jubuttib that's about as Swiss as you can get, lol. Only they could make an AK complicated
@@damienairalay552 I know what you mean, but for anyone else reading this it's worth saying that "AK" doesn't always refer to THAT kind of AK, in both SIG and Swedish parlance it means "automatic carbine"... =)
When you're less than 30 seconds into the close up and you're already "WHY?"
Ha I said that out loud about that time.
@@Jesses001 Me too. It was for the mag release. Admittedly I got my answer, but that certainly added additional questions
It's funny because a few years ago I was thinking about a blow-forward handgun, for the purpose of allowing a slightly longer barrel in a compact package, and no rearward motion (allowing you to cheek-weld a stock), and I wondered to myself: surely I can't be the only one who's thought of this... I wonder why it hasn't been done.
Turns out, it's possible, it is just a nightmare.
I’ve also thought of this
The SIG AK-53 is not a blow-forward action, rather it is a forward-operating action using a locked breech and a gas system to unlock the breech. There are blow-forward action pistols out there (that are much simpler than a locked breech forward operating system) if you are willing to look up the Mannlicher 1894 or the Schwarzlose Model 1908.
This looks very forward thinking for its time. The designer was clearly trying to create a rifle that provided maximum recoil mitigation for full-power rifle cartridges. It turned out to be too awkward. It's definitely fascinating. Too bad you can't take it to the range. I would like to see what accuracy it was capable of.
Exactly, I really want to see this rifle fire, with the muzzle brake, low cyclic rate in full auto, and mass reciprocating forward I have a feeling it would be one of the most controllable and comfortable full powered rifles ever built. Very interesting design.
I second that motion!!! 🤠👍🇨🇭
This gun's design team followed up with the Swiss Bowling Ball... it only had eleven moving parts.
But you get a strike every time
every moving part has at least 3 non moving parts in that bowling ball and it takes over an hour to disassemble and clean
@@Boomchacle included with purchase is 300 page manual on field stripping of bowling ball.
@@TrinidadJamesWoods It requires an industrial building with power tools to do so
Funny
I feel like this was at some point a brilliantly simple concept, but it didn't quite work. So they added a few more parts, and added a few more parts, and added a few more parts, until it was a glorious mess.
Like, in theory, there's all of three or four moving parts here. But they need so many weird and janky supporting structures, it stops being simple.
I think you are onto something there. I can imagine how this thing is suppose to work in my head. It seems simple enough. Then you look at the actual rifle.
It's actually rather simple, but you have the illusion because Ian haven't figured out the perfect way to disassemble it
That's German/Swiss engineering in a nutshell.
I think this might just be a proof of concept for the operating mechanics and it never received further development. Would explain why the stock looks like it was an afterthought and the magazine was rigged up just enough to work without making much sense.
It is actually quite simple. If you compared it to the rifles we use today without knowing anything about guns, it would actually be simpler and would make sense much quicker. The only problem it has in its design is that everybody already used different system at its time. And this different system was proven by the war which made it even more desirable.
How incredibly convoluted. I can't imagine how a soldier would be expected to field strip and maintain such a bizarre contraption.
Exactly my thoughts, this thing wouldn't last a week in the field.
@@FinalManaTrigger Considering it would never be in the field, this is hardly a problem.
The " 4 pronged thing" is called a collet.
It’s mind boggling frankenguns like this and the Mars pistols that feel like what this channel exists for.
Paul Brozyna it feels more like these weird guns exist purely so channels like this can exist.
Well done Ian, for your patience in trying to understand this simple mechanism, which wouldn't be out of place in a clock!! One that shoots that is!!
What a jalopy. E and m stand for error and malfunction respectively.
Actually E is for Einzelfeuer, semi auto, and M is for Maschinenfeuer, full auto.
Beats me where the S for Sicherheit may be.
Braun30 Tis your finger
@@Braun30 Like Daniel said, the safety is your decision to not fire the junker.
The best description of the markings on this "thing" so far!
Braun30 Man that joke just flew right over your head
Management: Think outside the box. There are no boundaries. We want to explore all options.
SIG Engineers: Done!
Two months later, "we were very wrong, get back in the box, now"
Hold my beer
1920's Management: Think outside the box. There are no boundaries. We want to explore all options.
1930's SIG Engineers: Done!
1940's Management: After much work, you guys seem to have made an exceptional sample of SIG engineering prowess. Very efficient. A lot of good engineering work. Let's kick it up a notch and see how much more you can do boosted up on meth.
1950's SIG Engineers: Done!
There, I fixed it for you, bro.
This is what happens when a gunsmith turns into a pacifist and he designs his last gun, so no one would be able to operate it.
A great example of development of an idea for the sole purpose of “we have done it so you don’t have to”
What I really love about the AK is how simple it is to strip and maintain in the field.
The amount of work that went into this machine in the hope of having a serious weapon at the end of the day defies all logic.
Hello Ian, first of all, thank you very much for the report on this truly special weapon.
Looking at the gun I immediately notice the relationship to the semi-automatic blow forward Volkssturmkarabiner in caliber 7,92x33 of the Hessische Industrie Werke and its designer August Coenders. The weapon you present seems to be a further development of the Coenders design. Instead of a recoil forced operation forward bolt it was changed to a gas pressure loader and instead of an integrated magazine a magazine to change was developed.
It would be great if you would do an episode about the Coenders development - maybe there are model replicas of the semi-automatic construction or 3D models to explain it an built a bridge to SIG AK-53.
It took hours, and at the end - Ian was still stumped! Now that is note worthy :) Thanks Ian!
i was questioning the recoil design, then when you showed the mag release my only words are "why is everything about this gun wrong?"
This would be great in some kind of alt-history movie/game. It is familiar but different.
There are some things that don't work in any timeline
@@SgtKOnyx 😁
Would fit right in the new Metro:Exodus game, or any of the older metro games
I could see this as some backwater “slug thrower” in Star Wars. Looks like a normal firearm but is just slightly off that you question if it’s real.
It would feel right at home in borderlands
9:09 Top jump scares of 2019
Look at the mass of weathered wood furniture on this beast. It's like a lone shipwreck survivor spent 10 years whittling down the actual wreck
A great day for imperium! A priest of Adeptus Mechanicus has solved yet another secret of the mysterious relic weapons from the dark age of technology. He also documented it well, so this sacred knowledge shall never again be lost to us.
Bullets for the Bullet Throne!
@Noble Savage The Emperor Will Remember! He is the Ghost in the Machine, the Machine God, the Gun Jesus!
@@LordSluggo Will the Bullet Throne be made of lead or brass? The latter seems more OSHA friendly.
That's the important thing. Before we had one diagram in one book. Now we have an actual recorded breakdown. That is huge from a historical archive standpoint.
@@SidneyBroadshead I would guess Brass for maximum shininess.
What a contraption. I bet the machinist that had to make some of those parts had some choice names for the designers.
In no les three different languages.
😂
The disassembly was really interesting. I don't know why you skipped the swiss watch assembly part but the part with putting back the chocolate factory together was very interesting.
How in the name of John Moses Browning did this make it off the drawing board?
Because Swiss.
The Swiss are bored and have zero urgency. They can design a million things with no issues.
@@gregoryfilin8040 I still love the Furrer Submachine gun. "We might get invaded any day, let's design a toggle-based monstrosity that will cost 5 times any other sub gun!"
Be honest, once it was _on_ the drawing board, could you resist building one just to see it?
"The World's assault rifles says that this is a disassembly lever, which it very much is not. There is no disassembly lever." I feel your frustration. At first I thought it was just me.
I'd call that four-pronged thing a "collet". On a Dremel Multitool, the "collet" looks and operates very similarly. It sits in a cup on the end of the motor shaft, receives the bit, and is pressed closed with the "collet nut".
That assembly on the rifle also looks a lot like the length-adjustment joint on the bottom of a Flowmaster replacement toilet valve.
Just the fact that you have to push the charging handle forward would totally make me useless trying to operate this gun. It would be like riding that bicycle where the handlebars turn the wheel in the opposite direction.
Someone has made that bicycle. It's just as hard as you think it is.
Weirdly enough, above 15 mph, that property is true. Check out motorcycle countersteering if you're interested
It took me a while Iain, but I finally tracked down what that persistent knocking sound was throughout the video. It was the Senior Armourer in Leeds banging his head off the wall, during the take-down and reassembly. It's OK though, the psychiatrist says that he'll make a full recovery after therapy :-)
Seriously though, I loved this one...not often that we you seriously engaged and intrigued, to this extent..it serves to highlight your expertise, and your passion for what you do...
Thank you
Jim
Failed and overly complicated designs like this can’t help but make you admire the simplicity and elegance of firearm designs that continue to persist.
It's very rare that Ian is at a loss of words to describe a gun :) I thoroughly enjoyed this!
I have many words to describe this gun.............all unprintable.
How on earth did something this overly complex and expensive to machine ever make it off the drawing board?! ~Great Vid BTW Ian
It's swiss
Don't be dumb.
The first gun is always expensive, and usually too complex.
The question is was it too expensive to mass produce, and too complex for what it did, and the answer is yes.
Happens all the time in Germany...
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should...
Have you seen the Germans? Look at the Tigers and Panthers, those things were ridiculous. These are the people who invented clocks(spring driven ones anyway). Germanic people love their complicated machines.
That "thing" at the front of the barrel spring is usually called an "olive."
If I remember correctly from my brief time as a plumbers mate!
It seems, that the recocking hook is running under the mystery lever. On 22:28 its on E and fails to recock. Maybe it stand for Einzel, disconnecting the hook and you have to manually recock, so the gun has an auto and a "semimanual" setting. A repeater, where you only have to run the firingpin and not the hole bolt.