It's simply unfeasible under capitalism. The POINT of capitalism is to expand profiteering (see: "exploitation" or "theft") to all possible ends and finding new means to extract further profit, since the Tendency for the Rate of Profit to Fall requires infinite expansion (in an increasingly finite Earth) or else profit will fall. It's not just some funny coincidence that public services were incredible under the USSR, socialist China and many other socialist experiments. When you put power in the hands of the workers instead of in the hands of the elite, things that benefit everyone (healthcare, public transit, education) all improve in both quality AND access. ...and, *no:* simply "voting" won't do anything; aforementioned elites would never allow a system to exist that's so powerful as America's so-called democracy is mythologised to be. Why would the ultra-powerful not only allow but _pay for_ a system that could bring about an end to their tyranny? Such a system never existed, and they want you to imagine their sham-democracy works so you'll waste your time on that instead of making actual, effective changes. All capitalist countries do this, of course, not just America. "The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house." The only way to improve life for the working class is to exile those who exploit us to the point of not only them bringing about the end of humanity, but all life on Earth. These exploiters can only be removed in the same way they established their power in the first place; by cannon and by rifle.
I mean, to be fair, it's kind of hard to do huge capital projects like that in the position Amtrak has been in since its inception. Especially when they don't own the vast majority of track miles they operate on, not to mention the chronic lack of federal funding like you see with the federal highway fund. That said, at least they got something reasonable in the last budget. Sadly, doubt they're getting much more.
@@eirinym You mean without asking the military to step in and call it matter of national security because High Speed Rail can move personnel and equipment around the country very quickly.
The only fault with that is the New Hampshire to Boston electrification in the late 1990s. so I guess if Amtrak doesn’t do anything for the next century then It will get that achievement.
@@KRYMauL They won't though, that's not really the military's style. Instead if anything they'll pay some company billions for a half-baked high-speed diesel or rocket-propelled locomotive instead.
Also, I find that Detroit has such potential for a great commuter/regional/international rail system but it's being hindered by old ideologies and the dark legacy of the fall of Detroit.
It’s been said before but Detroit just doesn’t have a lot of money to go around and when they do get federal funding leaders seem to spend it in the worst ways. The metro area needs transportation experts who can oversee projects or something
@@samwalko the last of the street running has been done away with, since south shore started the new double track project, and I'm not sure where amtrak territory start's in Michigan city but if its west of town then the trains wouldn't even enter the former street running section since they would be on their own main. although one thing I am curious about is how would the connection from union station to the electric lines/south shore be made
@@martinfaland7819 The Amtrak/SSL diamond is in the middle of the two parts that were street running where it switched from 10th street to 11th street. That said, my understanding was that the tracks would still be street-running but just with a second track; however, upon further review, this at most applies to 11th street. The 10th street street running is to be moved entirely to the side of the road, and that's the only part Amtrak would need to use.
The same fight about electrification has been going on in the UK for DECADES. The fact is that government agencies find it super hard to finance capital expenditure for electrification (with a repayment time of 60 years or longer) versus the "quick fix" finance deal you can get for some modification to the trains. It's incredibly frustrating.
Which is why it's very weird that HS2 is being heavily criticized. People need experience with electrification. Once you have enough people that can work on it, plus the funding and equipment needed, the task would be much faster. Just like India electrifying at the rate of 6,000 km a year.
It's completely bonkers if you know anything about capital markets and other stuff. Like banks LOVE to lent money to government and such agency would always pay it back and if you take out loan for 50+ yrs, not only are the payment so small you can fit them in the consequent increased margins but also gets incredibly small interest rate. It's no brainer for a government to take out loans on hugely beneficial infra project like High Speed Rail, electrifications, subways or my favourite Nuclear Power Plants. IDK who or why someone came up with "the government need ROI within shorter time than large corpos" but it must have been to intentionally cause harm.
@@hhvhhvcz it's got quite a lot to do with populism in politics since the early 00s - short term projects win votes because the average voter doesn't care about anything after the next 10 years
At least we have the admittedly very weak excuse that some of the tunnels are too narrow for catenaries. Still compared to say the money put into the bloody silvertown tunnel it is chump change. I'd say electrify instead of HS2 phase 2 but I zero faith that the government would actually invest the money into rail.
While my parents are from NJ, I was born in Westchester. They specifically chose Westchester because of the convenience of the Metro North's Hudson Line to NYC where my father worked as an attorney. Heck, I was almost named Hudson because we lived by the river. We lived up a hill and only around a ten-minute walk down to the Metro North station in a very walkable area. The Hudson Line/southern Empire Corridor line along the Hudson is one of the most beautiful routes in the nation simply because of the views at 0:00. ESPECIALLY during Fall. Seeing those Palisades makes me grateful of all the nature that the US has to offer. The US is BLESSED to have such wonders, and it saddens me when such nature is threatened. It is why we must protect it.
I miss the efficiency of MTA, for all its flaws. I grew up in queens so I'm more familiar with the L and M but the Metro North and LIRR should be the standard for commuter rail around the country.
I'm an airline pilot based out of Chicago, one of the routes I fly is Chicago-O'hare to South Bend airport. It's a 20 minute flight but it usually takes almost 2 hours from boarding to deplaning after you add up boarding time and taxi time to get from the runways to the terminal at O'hare. Many times the flight is delayed due to weather at O'hare or mechanical issues with the aging CRJ-200s that we use to run the route. The South Shore Line pulls directly into the South Bend airport terminal, but to get from the South Shore Line stop at the SBN airport to O'hare takes THREE AND HALF HOURS and there are only seven trains a day. Even driving can take up to three hours during rush hour. So this totally absurd and pointless flight will continue to exist for the foreseeable future because we can't get our trains to go 90 miles in less than 2 hours. Don't get me started on the Milwaukee-O'hare route, which already has a bus service that takes less time than the flight.
That's insane! I just looked on the map and a route like Chicago - Gary - South Bend - Fort Wayne - Toledo - Detroit looks like a prime example for an _conventional_ (read: relativly cheap) high speed (160km/h / 100mph) connection (if you don't want a real highspeed). It would be as fast as the direct car route between those cities (if not faster), just barely the range where a train ride does not feel too long and connecting 2 huge cities with several midsize ones (and small ones with local trains). And it would be faster than your flight to reach South Bend.
@@steemlenn8797 Part of the problem will always be: What do you do when you get to Fort Wayne, Toledo, etc. to get to your final destination? Many final destinations are now in the suburbs. Local public transit no longer exists or is not practical or safe to use as it was in the 1920s.
I've always thought the Air Wisconsin CRJ2 routes out of ORD are a sad reminder of the lack of train travel in the region. One hundred years ago, you could probably ride Milwaukee Road's Hiawatha train and get there a half hour faster than any alternative today
I also think it will always exist for the convenience of connecting passengers. If I'm going to London, I might as well just get on a plane in South Bend than drive or take the train all the way to the city, and then find my way to the airport. That's really who the flight is intended for, not people solely flying between South Bend and Chicago.
Currently to take the SSL from Chicago to South Bend its about two hours and twenty five minutes. If you're starting in downtown Chicago, the SSL is going to be faster than going out to O'Hare. The Southshore Double Track project should help solve the timing. Currently it takes about an hour and forty minutes to get from Chicago to Michigan City. Once the double track project is complete it'll be down to sixty seven minutes. Total time from Millennium Park to South Bend would be around an hour and forty fiveish minutes. They're also going to be running more trainsets more frequently. If you want to go from O'Hare you have to add in about an hour for the blue line. The SSL stop at SBN was also only supposed to be temporary but became permanent. The route into South Bend follows a bunch of weird sidings and turns that slow the train down. The original plan called for building a station into downtown South Bend. There's been take in the last few years of bring that plan to life, however, costs are pretty high. Between the double track and west lake corridor projects, unless South Bend funds the entire project, its probably not going to happen anytime soon. However, if it does happen, and your final destination is South Bend itself, SSL may actually become the more attractive option.
There's one way to make them profitable while still keeping the services public: real estate. That is how Japan did it: buy all the land around the main railway stations, then densify the hell out of them all at once, then rent them to all kinds of businesses and institutions like residences, offices, schools, and shopping centers. This makes sure that there will always be foot traffic in and out of the stations.
@@ianhomerpura8937 that’s how most of the original rail lines in the US were built as well. We seemed to have forgotten how to do that, except for Brightline now.
@@smallflame85 they are. But Japan has been doing these massive transit oriented developments even before the JNR was privatized and broken up in 1987. So far it has been very effective in keeping the railways out of the red, especially in JR East and JR Central.
I was talking to a guy that worked on that line when they were upgrading it. He said the line is ready for electrification. They future proofed the line. Eventually they want to use the New Haven to Hartford portion for HSR to Boston.
@@ClockworksOfGL Too many NIMBYS. The only way to fix the section between New Haven and Providence is to pull the curves out. Too much old money and boomers.
A new direct, electrified HSR route between Hartford (actually, Manchester) and Worcester (actually, Auburn) via Sturbridge, paralleling I-87 and the Mass Pike, would make the inland route significantly shorter and faster than the Shoreline route, and add the capacity people think is necessary. This highway corridor is much more feasible than the New Haven-Providence routing which was being promoted a few years ago, and would add direct service to NYC for Worcester, the second largest city in New England.
Yes pls do a video on the entire empire corridor, upstate has some great cities with good bones and decent public transit and I feel like strong train lines would be a huge boost to an area that’s a lot better than ppl give credit
I second this wholeheartedly. The corridor between NYC, Upstate and Toronto is so ripe with good transit potential that it kills me that no one is talking about it. I’m from Syracuse and the fact that we don’t have NEC style routes up here like we used to sucks
If we're talking about true upstate (Albany -> North) meh. There are bones. Huge D&H presence at one time. But populations in the north country don't head very far south and those in NYC don't usually go past Lake George. Sacandoga is loading up on NYCers as well and it's only drivable today. The tracks are under water. Toga could be a good stop during track season. However most of the socialites live there for the summer. They travel twice: Once in June and once in September. The trip from NYC is waaaay to long just for the day and the tix too expensive. Lake George is the next possible tourist stop but there's no place for a station. The D&H is now RT9 with the CSX single track all the way over in Fort Edward. Again those people travel twice per year. For winter sports its far faster to drive then take a train. Going to Whiteface? It's 2.2 hours or so from Toga via car at 65 to 70 MPH. The trains can't break 55 in many places here. 1. Always under construction south of Albany. 2. CSX 3. North of Albany is many more turns. Albany has tried to get high speed rail up to at least Albany for years and can't accomplish even that. It's simply too expensive. If there was a more rail traffic just to Saratoga to start that'd be a huge win imo for a reasonable price of Metro North not $89. I'd go to far more Mets and Islanders games.
Electrifying the Wolverine Corridor and using the SSL right-of-way makes a ton of sense. Maybe even stopping at Gary, too. And keep in mind that a good chunk of the line in Indiana is slated to be double-tracked. Only problems I could see would be having to deal with CN (like you said) and track speed, especially between Miller and Kensington.
I've had this idea of turning the South Shore into a intercity corridor for a while, although my idea includes getting the eastern Amtrak trains on at South Bend. The way I came up with to avoid that section is to use an old Pere Marquette right of way that comes close to the South Shore near Miller then runs on the south side of Gary on an elevated ROW, then the line comes to the east end of the Indiana Harbor Belt's yard in Hammond, from where you can pick up the former Michigan Central line for a straight shot through to Kensington. The PM part is double tracked but needs new bridges, the MC line needs new tracks next to the IHB, and the bridge over the Little Calumet River is still there but it is signal track.
Using the South Shore to Michigan may be a temporary solution. The VP of Amtrak State-Supported Services has mentioned that the CREATE Grand Crossing Project is not dead, but its mission would change. If the proposed St. Charles Air Line Connector gets built (they're waiting on word of the MEGA grant now) Michigan/eastbound trains could one day travel from Union Station onto CN's former IC mainline to Grand Crossing, where trains would transfer onto Amtrak-owned passenger-only tracks that would be built on the abandoned New York Central right-of-way out of Chicago, connecting to Porter and the line into Michigan. Where the South Shore Line would play a more critical role long-term is for a return of the Hoosier State corridor train. Once South Shore's West Lake Extension is complete, in 2025 or so, Amtrak wants to negotiate with INDOT on the possibility of bringing the Chicago-Indianapolis train back, likely with terms similar to those currently being offered to Ohio on the 3C+D corridor - all capital costs and nearly all operating subsidies covered for the first five years, provided the state picks up the tab on operating costs afterward. The same Amtrak VP suggested that a new Hoosier State could serve as a showcase for what is possible on state-supported corridors, and mentioned an extensive rebuild of trackage between Dyer and Indianapolis, likely up to 110MPH standards. Why not electrification as well?
Honorable mention for the Pacific Surfliner made my day. Especially since the segment between LA and Anaheim will need to be electrified for the CAHSR. My big wishlist would be for LOSSAN to electrify the entirety of the Pacific Surfliner corridor from San Luis Obispo to San Diego as well as all of the Metrolink lines.
I believe SCRRA/Metrolink only owns the tracks as far as Moorpark, and UP owns them beyond that. LA to SD is the busiest US passenger rail corridor outside the NE, and it makes so much sense to electrify. One of the biggest hurdles though would be Redondo Junction to Fullerton Junction, since that's owned by BNSF and is a busy freight corridor. Fullerton Junction to the Orange/SD County line is owned by SCRRA, and from there to San Diego is owned by NCTD. One thing CAHSR is proposing is building a new intermodal facility in Colton, since based on their research there's a number of intermodal trains traveling from the Midwest that go to Hobart Yard in LA, only for their containers to then be trucked back out to their destination in the Inland Empire. So by building a new facility in Colton, those trains would terminate there and open up those train slots for HSR. The other obvious biggest hurdle is the fact the tracks along the coast are prone to being impacted by surf and erosion, as is happening right now with the tracks in San Clemente closed to passenger traffic (I believe freight is still moving through there at reduced speeds) likely through December. The tracks along the Del Mar cliffs are also at serious risk, though I have been seeing plans move forward on a tunnel underneath Del Mar to move the tracks away from the cliffs. So tracks would need to be moved away from the surf before electrification could happen, or you do it in phases: LA to Anaheim, Anaheim to Laguna Niguel, SD to Oceanside (after rerouting Del Mar and possibly a Miramar Hill bypass tunnel), then Laguna Niguel to Oceanside. One final thing, and I've been wondering if maybe this is why HSR/electrification is ending in Anaheim, is that the Surf Line has autoracks going between San Diego/Baja CA and the Midwest. Just east of Anaheim is a junction that connects the Surf Line with the BNSF mainline, with freight trains going between SD and San Bernardino/West Colton. Though given there isn't a clearance issue with electrification and double stacks, and autoracks are about the same height, then that shouldn't be an issue. If the Surf Line were electrified all the way to SD, I've thought that hypothetically HSR could continue on it past Anaheim to SD via Oceanside, until their route through Riverside and Murrieta is completed.
I've lived in Madison, Wi my whole life and it's so infuriating to know that despite being a growing city of about 300,000 (and about 700,000 in metro area) and once having two railroad stations, now the closest Amtrak station is 28 miles outside the city in Columbus. It's so dissapointing to see all the stations in Madison and surrounding cities just sitting there. There was a plan in 2011 to have a high speed rail system connect from Chicago to Minneapolis that would finally reconnect the city, but our then governor (Scott Walker) refused the $810 million provided to fund it's construction because "It wouldn't be profitable". He then decided to spend $1.7 billion on reconstructing the Zoo Interchange in Milwaukee that solved little to nothing in traffic...
Have you ever looked into going to Chicago by first taking the Badger Bus over to Milwaukee and then taking the Hiawatha train down to Union Station? Turns out that it's not feasible. Yes, the Badger Bus does go to the Milwaukee Intermodal station...but the Badger Bus arrives there about 5 minutes after the train leaves, so there's an 1.5 hour layover. So it's way faster, cheaper, and more convenient to just take the bus from Madison to O'hare.
@@radishpineapple74 As much as I’ve liked Badger Bus over the years, they supported killing the train extension to Madison, and I’m sure it’s not an accident that they don’t connect.
The great thing about Virginia is that not only did it indeed buy the CSX ROW between DC and Richmond, but it also bought the CSX S-Line in tandem with North Carolina. This means we could build an entirely new passenger-rail corridor from Raleigh to DC and up the rest of the NEC.
I don’t quite understand the WAS to Richmond purchase, as it’s phrased “much of.” Linear or lateral? Who will dispatch it? In any case, more parallel track is going in, and the megabux Long Bridge over the Potomac is almost contracted, with lots of fed dollars I think. The other megabux project, to change everything about pax rail from RVR to PTB, is sleeping quietly, though the plans have been approved for a few years. Likewise S Line HSR is sleeping, aside from survey contracts.
@@kitchin2 - last I read - Dispatch - Amtrak from DC to Alexandria and then CSX even though Virginia Passenger Rail Authority owns (or will own) the right of way. I really don't understand that - perhaps someone else has better information.
A small problem that wasn’t really touched on with the Amtrak Michigan line is that MDOT and Amtrak don’t own the ROW for the last four stops, including Detroit. To get wires into Detroit and out to the terminus at Pontiac, they’d still have to deal with CN
In my opinion it shouldn’t be hard to nationalize rail owned by Canadian Northern because they are a foreign railroad. They really have no excuse to be owning any track in the US.
@@gumbyshrimp2606 Why do Canadian public agencies buy rail cars and locos built in Sacramento? Why are FerroMex locos all over central US? Why does Grupo Mexico own the FEC in Florida? Profit, finite capital. Politics in the Buy America law, maybe shenanigans in Florida. Brightline, owned by SoftBank, a Japanese company, is certainly seeing capital constraints.
Interesting. I'd prioritize the NYC to Schenectady line only because Albany being the state capital would benefit from faster service to and from NYC. Next would be the Springfield line. The Detroit - Chicago line, although logical, would require more coordination. Along with electrification, these routes should also eliminate all highway grade crossings. As long as you are going to spend the money, do it right. I live near Richmond, VA, and take the Northeast corridor trains between home and NYC. There is a huge difference in service between Richmond and DC versus DC to NYC. Hopefully, this route would also be considered. It would still mean deselization between Richmond and Norfolk/Hampton Roads.
Personally I'd do NY and CT in the opposite order because CT has a lot of local service still using diesel, and you don't need to deal with multiple agencies. Most of the NY local service is already electric anyway. But yeah the cost/benefit of those lines is clearly way better than the Michigan corridor which doesn't have any regional rail service and isn't that frequent.
NYC to SCH sounds great however its more likely to stop in ALB. There's not enough daily traffic in SCH. Albany has been trying to upgrade NYC to ALB for years as well as bring in HSR. It's not going to happen. It's far too expensive which is why it fails in the budget every year. It'd be nice but there's no way.
What we here: A man speaking straight facts what the US government hears: An actual good use of taxes What congress here's: A complete waste of their money
I just wish Amtrak had more vertical lines. There is no reason that going from Detroit to Buffalo requires you to go all the way back to Chicago to go east. Literally one short line would save hours on a trip.
Hear hear! I'm down here in Georgia, and to get from Atlanta (middle-north Georgia) to Savannah (southeast Georgia), you need to ride all the way north to D.C., then back down south. It takes less than 5 hours to drive, but almost 30 hours to ride a train. It's absurd.
Detroit to Toledo could very feasibly be a regional rail line, especially given that the existing ROW is already quad tracked and passes through numerous dense, moderately walkable suburbs of both cities and the city of Monroe as well. Unfortunately, I dont see the car cult leaving Michigan's politics for a long time, and our attempts at commuter rail in the mid 2010s failed despite being an even more obvious and easy project
I grew up in South Bend and used the Wolverine quite a bit in grad school, so it makes me quite happy to see the Wolverine and South Shore mentioned. MDOT has been painfully slow at upgrading the Kalamazoo-Dearborn portion to 110 mph, but at least KZoo-Battle Creek is up to 110 now. Just wish they would also double track the whole thing.
@@dknowles60 Maybe it doesn't have many trains because it can't expand service with the current setup and shortages...In 2019, the Wolverine alone had over 500,000 riders, making it the 3rd most popular Amtrak route in the Midwest (behind Hiawatha and Lincoln Service). The Blue Water also uses those tracks up to Battle Creek, which saw almost 200K riders in 2019. They are definitely popular services despite only having 4 round trips total (3 Wolverine, 1 Blu Water).
Hearing the president of Amtrak talk about "making it profitable" makes me downright angry. How can someone running a public service be that out of touch. Absolutely ridiculous. It's people like that who are to blame for the US not having quality, affordable, and electric High Speed Rail.
Amtrak was mandated to be profitable by Congress when it was created. It is out of touch, but I can't solely blame one person who has to balance the competing pressures of both the service-demanding public AND congress which provides necessary operating funding.
Amtrak’s leaders going from Anderson to Gardner is like Paper Mario Sticker Star to Color Splash One is slightly less worse then the other, SLIGHTLY Edit: Bill Flynn is Origami King, not terrible, but not all that great either
I live on the Springfield-Hartford-New Haven line, it would be great to have that electrified especially since it cuts straight through my town. It would ALSO stop the annoying business of having to have an engine swap at a certain point.
*WHOA!!!* I am shocked the Hiawatha Service is not among the three routes or AT LEAST in the honorable mentions. IIRC it is the busiest route in the midwest. I get that a lot of the track belongs to freight lines, but so do those of some of the honorable mentions...
The Surfliner tracks are going to be moved inland (they are dangerously close to the shore in San Clemente and train service is actually suspended between Oceanside and Irvine right now because of erosion), so that'd be a good time to do it. PS: I'm not sure *WHERE* the tracks can get moved inland, especially north of Oceanside since the USMC base Camp Pendleton effectively takes up everything between Oceanside and Orange County If the tracks DO get electrified, then maybe Metrolink and the Coaster (commuter rail lines) could get on the bandwagon
The plan right now is to tunnel inland along the Del Mar Bluffs...if they're smart enough, they can actually shore up the coast at San Clemente to not even have to worry about any erosion...just look at what Network Rail did at Dawlish for an idea.
@@andyinsdca Yes they can, the tracks in Dawlish are right next to the water as well...and in that case it's the violent Atlantic storms they have to deal with...it wasn't even that hard of an engineering feat either. Do you know what they're doing to stabilize it...installing steel supports to either side of the sliding earth and then putting in horizontal braces to hold it in place.
Regardless of whether electrification for the Wolverine happens one day, going through Indiana via the SSL tracks will make things sooo much better. We’re going 110 mph through the west side of the state just to crawl through Michigan City-Gary at at maybe 10 mph.
That has always been the bottleneck, I can’t believe there’s a solution that seems relatively simple, yet hasn’t been touched for the past couple decades.
What's especially funny to me is that they use the South Shore as a detour route. One of my favorite video I've found here is an Amtrak train going over the big blue bridge in Hegewisch, Chicago.
Just one point of clarification. Amtrak does not own the tracks from Poughkeepsie to Schenectady. They are still owned by CSX, but Amtrak has been leasing the section since 2012. The section is actually known as the Hudson Subdivision. By the terms of the lease, Amtrak is responsible for maintenance and capital responsibilities. But I'm not sure if that would complicate the electrification of the track.
"I don't need to worry about if my massive spending makes any sense, just increase taxes" BTW, that's how you get mass famines. You guys get in charge of everything and people start starving to death. You decide you need fancy new rail line, and take the steel away from building tractors.
@@TheOwenMajor That’s not at all what he said. Making sense and being profitable are 2 very different requirements. Sewers aren’t profitable. Neither are courts, or streets, or libraries, or schools (at least k-12). Whether those things are worth building is judged based off of the net benefit to society, both in terms of efficiency (better infrastructure means more business and more efficient business) or in terms of standard of living (people not constantly dying of cholera) rather than whether that specific project will pay for itself. After all, if something costs 20 million, and causes a rise in gdp of 60 million, is it really a bad investment for the state? Also, I know you’re talking about the Soviet and Chinese famines, but I should point out that the main reasons for those famines were not accidents with the budget, but that the states were deliberately exporting food produced in order to have the capital to industrialize faster. This decision was incredibly cruel and stupid (and in the case of the Holodomor genocidal) but they weren’t cases of state spending run amok, and they weren’t unique to communism (see British policy having landlords in Ireland produce beef and continue exporting it during the potato famine to England to keep food cheap for factory workers, or similar policy in India to keep cotton cheap and causing multiple famines and 10’s of millions of deaths).
@@OldsVistaCruiser I have electrification between all major cities and some minor ones, around 60% of lines. Most was done in the last 30 years after capitalism was invented.
@@malakimphoros2164 - Which country? We have a very strong ultra conservative faction in the States, which opposes electric vehicles because they claim that the electric grid is insufficient, yet they oppose modernizing the grid!
@@OldsVistaCruiser Poland, we have many russian agents in the gouvernement who don't want fossil fuels to go, even if it's an unsustainable money drain that ultimately benefits our greatest enemy. But there are plenty trains, sometimes late but generally they are fine.
A couple of problems with the Michigan Service - first, Amtrak and the State of Michigan own the line from Porter, IN to Dearborn, MI - the corridor runs from Chicago Union Station to Pontiac, MI. Also, the tracks through Battle Creek are owned by the Canadian National. The South Shore route into Chicago is a horrible route compared to the NS - it's longer, and it has probably close to 75 road crossings at grade, compared to only a handful on the NS route - and the NS route is much more direct. Electrification is an excellent idea, but the cost to electrify tracks into Chicago Union Station would be cost prohibitive for one route. The better option would be for dua l mode equipment - electrify Porter to Dearborn and use dual mode equipment...
The Wolverine line runs from Pontiac Michigan to Chicago.From Pontiac to Dearborn CN then MDOT owned tracks from Dearborn to Kalamazoo,then Amtrak owned Kalamazoo to Porter Indiana.Amtrak has full right of way from Dearborn to Porter Indiana and large sections of 110mph.Almost 90% of the trip is free of freight .
They should extend it even further down to Raleigh and Charlotte. Both cities are growing at a rapid pace, given that both are becoming financial and tech centers.
@@ianhomerpura8937 I do think that's in the current plans. We have to hope the current governor doesn't sabotage them, though, as Republicans are often anti-train for some reason.
Virginia plays nice with CSX and NS so I doubt electrification there. Prob Petersburg to Raleigh S-line HSR would happen first. Examples of how VA plays: very big $ to CSX and NS for cap improvements over the last two decades. 2. Moving NPN station nine miles up line away from CSX port. 3. Buying wanky Buckingham Branch (CSX coal, so uncertain long term future). 4. Buying non-mainline from RNK to VT. The deals are cautious on frequency increases. Results have been good by all measures: ridership, operating margins, low ticket prices. But not as bold as to electrify WAS to Richmond, in my opinion. Bonus tip: PTB to NFK is the best rail in the state. Somebody at N&W knew how to lay track, and NS maintains it.
Part of the problem is the costs have outstripped inflation. So if we were to build using the estimated per mile cost of 1999 with inflation factored in (4 mil), this would be a lot easier of a decision. The problem is that for some reason the per mile costs have increased dramatically. I remember reading that one of the new haven branch lines on metro north(I think waterberry) had two estimates done for electric, one done in the mid 2000’s had it at about 8 million per mile, while one done a few years later had it at 15 million a mile. If we are to do these projects we need to figure out why this stuff has dramatically increased in costs so much. Trains already have a hard enough time getting funding, so we need to be able to maximize the little bit we do get because if we keep letting costs ballon nothing will get built.
A branch line here in Germany was recently electrified, they use EMUs with batteries onboard so only sections of the line had to be fitted with an overhead catenary, the rest of the route is run on battery power that is recharged in those wire-stretches (like larger stations along the line)
That sounds similar to what's happening in Cardiff and the South Wales Valleys. Basically the local lines are being electrified but, to save costs, they are leaving some sections unelectrified (an example is through Caerphilly on the Rhymney Line or through Taff's Well/Pontypridd on the Merthyr/Rhondda lines). The new Stadler FLIRT and Citylink trains will be fitted with batteries in order to run through the unelectrified sections.
some good news, the springfield corridor (at least in ct) is under study to be electrified! i'm glad i live in ct when it comes to trains, stuff seems really promising
Is that true? I had last heard that Connecticut DOT was actually looking into purchasing god awful duel-mode diesel locos that wouldn’t be implemented until like 2030 (ironically, the duel mode locos would cost MORE than actual overhead line electrification)
@@toadscoper4575 yeah, that was true but a lot of investment has been made in the last few months only honestly, and the state rail plan draft came out and has a LOT to do with passenger rail and green solutions. it won't be perfect, but it's def a step in the right direction
I live on the Virginia Services Corridor. Right now I think the biggest thing is that they are trying to triple track down the line a ways. rail traffic can get a bit congested at times.
Thanks for this great video. Having said that, does Amtrak have any actual electrification projects at the time? N.B.: it was exciting to hear you mention the Wolverine corridor. As a foriegn visitor (European), I chose the train to travel from Chicago to Detroit 2 years ago. Most people at the convention I was attending in Chicago reacted me like "Why don't you fly?" but I simly had no energy to waste to explain in length the benfits of railing instead of flying, especially on a distance of 400-500 km. They regarded me as a bit of a lunatic, a maverick at best (well, after all, those crazy Europeans are in the habit of traveling by train, so why not) 😆I honestly hope for the best for American rail. You used to be a great railroad nation, you can make it again!
Even with our current grid (not lots of renewable generation) switching to electric power cuts the emissions of a car approximately in half. I can’t think of any reason to assume that trains wouldn’t be roughly similar. Add onto that the lower operational costs and we’re basically saying that we can save money at the same time that we fight climate change?!? Sign. Me. Up!
@@LiamMcBride I actually wasn’t even speaking to the manufacturing emissions. Just the emissions of transporting every mile. You’re absolutely right though!
Apart from Talgo’s offerings, Siemens has the Sprinter family, Bombardier (Now Alstom) had the TRAXX, and Alstom also has the Prima, all of which also have internally-powered (currently diesel) variants as well.
@@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis you also seem to have some outdated information there, the siemens eurosprinter family hasn't been a thing anymore. it was replaced in 2010 (12 years ago!) by the vectron family in AC, DC, MS, DE and DM variants.
@@eftalanquest I got the impression that they were still popularly being called Sprinters even after the redesign, at least in part due to Amtrak’s model being officially called the ‘Amtrak Cities Sprinter’, although it is based on the updated platform.
I'd love a longer video on the wolverine line, why we need service to Toledo, the Amtrak plans for service to Windsor, and Michigan Central (which in theory Ford was going to keep the rail for future trains, but it's unclear if they've kept that promise).
Sweden has railway lines that only see three daily passenger trains in each direction but still are electrified. That’s as far as you can get from how it is in the US.
Once in the 90s I accidentally ended up riding the Springfield Corridor because I was riding in the wrong car when a northbound train toward Boston split at New Haven. I remember the horrible part of getting home being the subsequent stretch from Springfield to Boston.
Sounds like a good plan but what are the odds they won't do it and cite Caltrain's electrification project as the reason why? The Caltrain upgrade has been messy but not necessarily because of the electrification itself; it's largely been the track upgrades to make it CAHSR-ready and to ensure that the at-grade crossings can work under wire.
I grew up living 5 minutes from the South Shore Line, I find it interesting that Amtrak wants to use the track. Since the South Shore is double tracking from Chicago to Michigan city.
25kVac and 1.5kVdc can coexist in the same system, dual tension engines are made in France for this two electrifications for decades, and with Alstom and Siemens in the US, both of them know how to build such engines
The Michigan Line is having issues with just staffing our trains to begin with, the management over here is a mess. Electrification would be nice, though.
@@kitchin2 I think so, yeah. It's cleared to go 110Mi/h from east of Porter, IN to Dearborn, MI, with the exception of a small part of Battle Creek, MI, and east of Dearborn. Something like that.
@@SergeantTeabag Currently, the track is only rated for 110MPH from Porter, IN, to Albion, MI. They've been working on upgrading the remaining sections, but what they do upgrade won't improve service by much since the right-of-way east of Battle Creek is less straight than the western section.
Assuming it was electrified and upgraded to at least higher speeds, I would love being able to take the Wolverine to Detroit to see the White Sox play the Tigers then return to Chicago right after the game
Please just give us a train from Cincinnati -> Cbus -> Cleveland All the cities are super walkable but none of the nice little walking pockets are connected with transit
Imagine an HSR line between the three C's. Live in Cleveland and work in Cincinnati, with an hour and a half commute. Probably a pipe dream but still, i can dream
@@ohioman4646 Too bad it got killed, but I do agree that we should invest in better service, and not infrequent amtrak trains that take twice as long as it would be to drive and cost a ton of money
As a rare counterexample to many of the long series of dumpster fires involving the freight rail carriers that you've discussed in your videos already, out here in NorCal, the Caltrain / JPBX is successfully working on electrifying one of the most important Union Pacific ROWs from San Jose to San Francisco. It will bring a major improvement to the timetable and energy efficiency as well as ability to eventually go in tunnels and connect to other transit services in SF, and we will have almost the entire metropolis ringed with good electric mass transit to replicate the path of every major freeway and bridge. Hopefully it's just one step in a process of bringing transit sanity from the northeast to the rest of the country.
MDOT blew the budget on the I-94 modernization project, $4 billion to add a 4th lane in each direction in Detroit on the eastside to Conner. Easily could have funded electrification on the Wolverine for the entire cross state route, but no. More highways🙄.
@@ednorton47 Detroit could merit it’s own video, but it isn’t surprising a city so oriented around the automobile is having massive issues. Car reliance begets poverty which increases crime. Look at the most violent cities in America like Detroit, New Orleans, and St. Louis. All have really poor public transport.
@@ednorton47 Detroit a tuff city especially the eastside, but ain’t as bad as they say. Take Gratiot instead of the freeway you be fine, ain’t nothing happening to you.
The Norwalk to Danbury (Connecticut) commuter line was electrified in the old New Haven Railroad days. For reasons unknown, the catenaries were since removed.
Alan - "electrify the 10 miles to get out (of Manhattan)" - if I may, I respectfully disagree. However, I agree with the majority of your commentary, and glad that you are pursuing and sharing these thoughts. Let's look at the Empire Connection - when we say "electrify" - exactly how? Just in the 10 miles from Penn Station to Spuyten Duyvil, there are no less than THREE methods of electrification. Yes, three! At Penn Station, the tunnel contains two modes - 11KV-25HZ AC, and 650VDC (over-riding third rail). At Sputen Duyvil, where the Empire Corridor joins Metro North Railroad, there is 650VDC (under-riding third rail). The 18 Amtrak locomotives that operate on the Empire Corridor are equipped with over-riding pickup shoes, meant to be used the short distance from CP-Empire, into Penn Station, through the East River tubes, and into Sunnyside Yards. These may look very similar and nearly identical to the 31 dual-mode locomotives that serve Metro North Railroad and CDOT - and they are!! Except that the latter have under-riding pickup shoes for operation into Grand Central Terminal. (As you are aware, over-riding third rails are (LIRR/PRR style), and under-riding third rails are (New York Central) style). The third rail shoes on the Amtrak locomotives are retractable, so after they leave the tunnel and transition from electric to diesel-electric power, the shoes are retracted and stowed. This allows them to clear obstacles on the rest of their route - including the third rails on MNR. So, there is a compatibility problem. What happens when Amtrak trains need to divert to Grand Central Terminal? Long term, the Amtrak shops swap out the third rail pickup shoes, and the Amtrak locomotives operate through the Park Avenue tunnel into GCT using the MNR third rails. Short - term - kind of SOL. That is, unless Amtrak is allowed to operate into GCT under diesel power - and it so happens that the Park Avenue tunnel is the only place in Manhattan where electric trains are required by law. Oops! This is why Amtrak is looking into the "stupid" sets with battery-power. Rather than designing a dual mode with two different types of pickup shoes (i.e., can you say "Rube Goldberg??"), the theory is that Amtrak could operate into either terminal at either time, and use battery power. As an added bonus - the same locomotives could in theory operate through the North River tubes, and perhaps go to Scranton, the Poconos, or some other route where electrification does not exist, but otherwise could in and out of Penn Station. Now, when it comes to "custom sets", it so happens that Amtrak wants to build dual-mode Airo sets for use on the North East Corridor. These would switch between diesel power and electric power (three modes: 25KV-60HZ, 12.5KV-60/25Hz, and 11.3V-25Hz). Now, you might say that if Amtrak has catenary wire in the Empire connection tunnel at Penn Station - the same sets in theory could be used for Empire Corridor service. That is, operate out of Penn Station on the 11KV overhead wire, get out of the tunnel, and then operate diesel all the way to Buffalo. This would make sense. It would also make it impossible to divert into GCT. (But it would have the advantage of a single type of equipment, and avoid the "stupid" diesel/battery version of the Airo). To really do it right, Amtrak would need a dual-mode all-electric version of the Airo set. It would operate AC/DC, and would have no diesel power. It would also require electrification. That is, the catenary wire would be extended "the 10 or so miles" up Manhattan, and the pantograph would operate off of the AC power. At Spuyten Duyvil, the train would transition to the DC third-rail, and use Metro North power up to Croton. Then, new catenary lines would be built there all the way to Poughkeepsie and then to Albany, and Schenectady. As an added bonus, such trains would be fully compatible with the route into GCT, and would also be compatible with the rest of the North East Corridor, and could operate to Boston and Washington - not that they ever would, but in theory it is possible. So, for about $half-a-billion less, Amtrak would be able to use the diesel-battery locomotives to operate on the North East Corridor. Yay! (But - what about the Lake Shore Limited???)
I am guessing that the lake shore limited will use the battery powered locomotive to get to Albany, but hopefully it will eventually become the dual voltage locomotive.
Another good electrification project would be the Capitol Corridor from Sacramento to Oakland and San Jose, especially if there ends up being a new tunnel for standard gauge trains under SF bay.
Actually their is some that's is talking about Electrification for Capitol Corridor and also upgrade 125 or 150 mph, though it's 2050 plan, but thats got be sign also.
as a person who lives in a country where the highest speed of the train is 100 mph,(but still most of the rail network is electrified) i can't believe that somebody has to explain to americans that electric locomotives are better
It's pretty convenient when it comes to Metra, at least in my opinion. I've only driven into the city from the suburbs once, and taking the train has been the faster option for me. I don't mind walking around, and the buses in the city are pretty inexpensive to use. I live in the suburbs, though, so I don't know what it's like to drive around there.
Oh my god. You pronounced “Schenectady” correctly!!!! I love your content! And glad to see one of the RARE Schenectady shout outs. I’m like a 10 minute walk from the Schenectady Amtrak. I’ll buy you a beer if you’re ever in town haha.
Some issues electrifying the Wolverine route is Amtrak/MiDOT share equipment with other Amtrak Midwest routes out of Chicogo and the other Michigan Amtrak routes. It would be more money but maybe more effective for those states to work on electrification together and electrify routes like all 3 Amtrak Michigan routes, Chicago to St Louis, and Chicago to Milwaukee. It would be great to eventually see Chicago and Detroit connected to a Windsor-Toronto-Montreal NEC-style, high speed, electric corridor.
Another is the Lackawanna Cut-Off. I mean think about it, it's been pure irony that Scranton, the *ELECTRIC* city...doesn't have trains that are electrified. Let alone not having any train service since the early 50s! Exactly, public services are meant to serve the public. That is why we aim to continue upgrading our Pyongyang Metro, trolleybuses, and railway network to bring them to their potential. Not to mention, I am the only leader in the world who regularly uses a train to get around. Something that was passed down from my grandpa and father
Train service to Scranton ended in 1963, I used it regularly. The Post Office pulled the plug on the mail cars (nearly half the train) and without that revenue the near broke EL couldn't afford to run the nice train. There is a hotel and restaurant in the old Lackawanna station in Scranton and a nice bar in the old trainshed. Scranton does have steamtown and also a trolley line.
Indeed, every train I saw in DPRK was electric... there were loads of Soviet and Chinese diesel engines electrified in the 1990s for environmental reasons, e.g. the Kanghaenggun class. Glory to the Shining Star of the 21st century!
Electrification costs are high enough to think about how many trains to share those costs with. New Haven to Boston sees 33 Amtrak trains a weekday, New Haven to Springfield sees 24 Amtrak trains a weekday, New York City to Albany sees 14 Amtrak trains per weekday, and Chicago to Detroit sees 6 Amtrak trains a day. CalTrain is planning to run ? trains per day under it’s new wires soon. They have ordered 19 seven car double level trainsets from Stadler. I certain they plan to use them for more than one round trip per day. Maybe 38 trains?? Where do you set the setpoint on how many trains per day satisfies the costs to electrify? I’m certain 6 trains a day is setting that setpoint too low. What do you think is the appropriate number of trains to make electrification worth the costs?
3:45 "This corridor serves... The Adirondack." A train that hasn't made its way north towards Plattsburgh and Montréal since the start of the pandemic. We've had NO service going to places like Ticonderoga or Westport for a good 2 years. And Amtrak has been silent on any details on when the Adirondack will make its way through... The Adirondacks. 🙁
Im waiting for the boomers to be like “But Alan, electrification is communism!!!” Here in Australia, 95% of our suburban rail systems are juiced up. My home city of Perth has line from north to south through the CBD (under it actually) at 95mph and 5 minute frequencies in peak. Indian Railways also runs wild double stacks with new electric juice jacks.
@Ian Homer Pura yet the country has no indoor plumbing, and the infrastructure is shit and the government is run by Nazis so you're praising a country that is basically Nazi Germany in modern day.
Australia is interesting cause its like halfway between the US and Europe in terms of transit systems. In the big cities where most of the people live (you'll never see Oz the same way again once you realise it's basically a bunch of city-states) they all have extensive suburban rail systems and a few of them have light rail systems as well (I believe Adelaide is the only major city left whose suburban rail network isn't fully electrified). And NSW and Vic have good regional rail networks as well. And then you have long-distance trains which are in a very sorry state in Australia these days. First of all, the Indian Pacific and the Ghan have gone from proper rail services to overpriced tourism packages for old rich fuckers because of privatization (same reason the Overland is now hanging on by a thread). The only sorta decent long-distance trains are NSW's XPTs and Queensland's Tilt Train. A major factor in this is absolutely the fact that the rail operators have been too conservative to electrify anything outside of a major urban area - even without a dedicated high-speed rail corridor (which would be very nice either way) electrifying the existing Sydney-Melbourne corridor would do wonders. In this respect Queensland Rail has been the only operator with any balls since they managed to electrify a decent portion of the main line in Queensland at 25kv AC, as well as a lot of the coal systems in the interior of the state. Which brings me to the maddening state of the Inland Rail project. It's still a very good idea but in my eyes if you're building a new railway in the 2020's electrification is a must. And, of course, they've defected this criticism by saying "but what about mUh doUblE sTacKs?!!" Newsflash, you can absolutely do double stack freight trains with electric traction. And thus, we have the virgin Australian Inland Rail whining that they can't have both double stacks and electrification, vs the Chad Indian Railways with their absolute units of electric double-stacked freight trains.
This 'boomer' is concerned about the already strained electrical grid and increasingly more strained state of taxpayer funds that have been flying out of the country at a Bullet Train speed since the current Administration took office. What good are electric cars and trains everywhere if you can't power them most days for fear of crashing the grid? Fix that first! (Like should have been done when they first started noticing the problem back when I was a spring chicken.)
@@veganconservative1109 why not build more nuclear power plants similar to the one built at Vogtle in GA? That's what France did, thye just spam built more nuclear power plants. Plus, demand electric companies to update the grid, and build more towers. Most of them were built in the 1930s and all need to be replaced. just look what happened in California, which had massive wildfires all because PG&E never bothered to upgrade their electric grid infrastructure.
Very good video! The beautiful Michigan Central Station is being fully restored in Detroit. There was some talk about bringing trains back into it but I fear this is just another tragically missed opportunity and Amtrak in Detroit will continue to use the ugly "Amshack". Keep up the great work, my friend!
The problem with using the MC station is that to continue on to Pontiac would require either a backup move or switching ends. Which while not the biggest hassle, I doubt they'll do it.
@@hawkeyetherailfan Before they started to remodel MC several tracks that fed into the mainline at both ends along with butterfly structures. These have all been removed. What could be done is a smaller structure adjacent to the mainline tracks or perhaps one or two new tracks adjacent to the main line constructed.
@@louislamonte334 My idea was to build a line that curved northeast and went under Huntington Place then went down the middle of Jefferson and turned northwest onto the original Grand Trunk line.
@@hawkeyetherailfan Well, that would be a great possibility as well. Until Detroit and so many other places gets rid of the nearly endemic auto obsession all of this is going to be a really hard sell!
@@louislamonte334 What's interesting to note is that Detroit and the State are going to remove the I-375 freeway, the eastern end is at Jefferson, and convert into it into a pedestrian friendly boulevard. So while giving GM doorstep heavy rail service might not be feasible, a Detroit with less cars is.
1) Empire Line: there is already third rail electrification from NYC to Croton-Harmon. Amtrak is a low user of this line, with the MTA/Hudson Line being 90% of the trains (NYC to Poughkeepsie). Don't forget that there are still freight trains on this line (east side of the Hudson River. The west side tracks are only freight, passenger service having been abandoned.) 2) Caltrain electrification is costing $47 million per mile. Catenary alone is $12 million per mile. Signalling system upgrades, transformer/utility/electrical feeds, etc add up.
Poughkeepsie to Rensselear is, last I checked, still onwed by CSX, but with special agreement for Amtrak to have use iof it during day, and Amtrak pays for track/signaling upgrades. Those are the ONLY tracks for freight out of New York city to the rest of the USA and trains have to travel to Castleton on Hudson (just south of Albany) to get first rail bridge across the Hudson to reach rest of continental USA. (The Alfred H Smith bridge is VERY impressive and very high and also part of east-west line from Boston to Albany (there is also the Pan Am line further north that crosses at Mechanicville and CP Rail that crosses at Fort Edward with the connection to Vermont at Whitehall). As the only freight line out of New York City, it wouldn't be a good idea to prevent freight on it, unless CSX agrees to electrification and ditch double stacked containers. Or add 3rd track thatr isn't electrified for the slow lumbering freight. The Manhanttan section of Empire connection is quite strange. 3rd rail doesn't even start at tunnel portal, but somewhere inside tunnel. The few dual model locos Amtrak has are 3rd rail and go very slowly on it, so I guess it made sense to run on diesel at highwer speed and limit the 3rd rail to shortest distance. Amtrak has no locos (yet) that can run on pantograph and diesel). The locos with 3rd rail were convenient when Penn station tracks were rebuilt a few summers ago, allowing empire corridor trains to return to Grand Central Station while Penn was "closed" to those trains. With regards to "profits". The Biden infrasttucture bill (the first one) had some VERY interesting changes affecting Amtrak, one of them changing its mission from only operating routes with potential to become profitable to one of operating routes that serve people. The previous CEO was truly an airline guy: cut meal service on long distance train because in his head, New York to Atlanta shoudln't have meals :-) (and this despite Amtrak having just gotten brand spanking new viewliner dining cars). There were many good changes to Amtrak hidden in that law.
chicago to peroia eventually though to st louis would be a really good electric cordor. also would recommend the hawathin route as that already as a shit ton of demand. and honestly if we fully electrified the route taking advantage of the south shore line for the empire builder, we could have 4 to 8 trains a day between new york and chicago. thats alot of air traffic removed. and alot of local service to the comunitys along the route.
Amtrak already uses the Saint Charles Airline which connects the ex-Illinois Central Gulf line with the Rick Island Line and the BNSF Line just west of Halsted Street. The airline bypassed Union Station by about 3 miles 8nto nearby Cicero. Trains from Carbondale/New Orleans back into or out of Union Station from Cicero. The Michigan trains would need to do that also as Amtrak would continue using Union Station.
There are plans afoot to create a connection at Grand Crossing between the main line to the east coast and the CN line to New Orleans that would make use of the Air Line unnecessary and shave a lot of time off those schedules
The European models of the Cities Sprinters electric locos Amtrak uses can handle both AC and 1.5 kV DC, I wouldn’t be surprised if they can be refitted to handle running on the South Shore.
There is absolutely no reason Albany to NYC should not be electrified. Probably one of the busiest corridors in the country and could switch the metro north trains over to overhead as well. Maybe a joint Amtrak-MTA project could be completed to get this done. This route also needs alot of upgrades which could increase speed across the route as well. Also would avoid the switchover most trains have going into Penn. Would help if every platform at penn had both third rail and overhead. This would also be a perfect corridor for HSR, probably should be the first corridor considered by Amtrak when updating imo.
@@MatthewMello to my understanding they at least own portions of the line north of Poughkeepsie. Whatever they don’t own they are responsible for all of the maintenance. I live on the west side of the river and most of csx freight is brought down my side as opposed to the east side (2 freight on the east and upwards of 20 freight train on the west) It should still be doable for them to upgrade as-long as Amtrak foots the bill.
@@John-jg4wp All traffic in and out of Oak Point yard goes on the 701/704 to and from Selkirk. That is the only way there unless you come from CT, for example, the Springfield Line. But that is a pain in the ass move as the swtiches in Springfield go the wrong way. That is why CSO backs in and out of West Springfield Yard. Anyways, I am way off point.
"The grid can be powered by any source and can be switched to clean energy power later or whenever is necessary." THIS. This is why railways in some countries today are mostly immune to the ongoing oil and gas price surges. Since their systems are mostly electrified, they can choose whatever energy options are there at the table - coal, oil, gas, solar, wind, tidal, geothermal, nuclear, or all at once. Win win solution for everyone.
I'd use the Pere Marquette line more often if I didn't have to drive 30 miles to the nearest station. Even if it was a smaller railroad that did it, I really wish a branch was added from Holland to Muskegon. Maybe even looping up to Grand Rapids to connect back with the Amtrak 'mainline'. They might have to wrestle an agreement out of CSX, but other than that the only problem there would be the Grand River Swing Bridge. They'd have to stop right after Pere Marquette station to set the bridge so I don't know if they'd be very keen with that. Maybe they could convince Grand Haven to keep the bridge closed? I don't know...
If they had a bridge tender on duty at train time, and scheduled the bridge to close 30 minutes before the train was due, they could avoid most problems outside of weather, mechanical issues, and the bridge being struck by boats.
It definitely should. It was a city built on streetcars. It should become a transit oriented city again. This would be very important also given how the 2028 Olympics would be a pain in the ass if the city remains fully carcentric by then.
3:28 I'm pretty sure that CSX owns all the trackage on the empire corridor north of Poughkeepsie so electrifying the Empire Corridor would be harder. Amtrak only owns the West side connection in Manhattan.
I love your channel! Can you do a video talking about some of the things other viewers and I can do to get some of these people to take some initiative? I don’t understand the issues well enough to vote on them. I love hearing about the problem but what’s the first steps to a solution?
Amtrak doesn't own the tracks from Poughkeepsie and Schenectady, but has a long term lease from CSX. They would still need to coordinate with CSX. Sure it would be easier than on ROW they don't have a lease, but it's not as easy as on tracks they own. And the Metro-North area that is currently electrified with 3rd rail it is different 3rd rail from what Amtrak uses making it more complicated.
It's worth noting that the M8s also have a solution for the third rail disparity. (The M9s have the same type of third rail shoe as the M8s, though they can't use overhead wires.)
Curious for your opinion on the electrification style for the remainder of the Empire line. Service between GCT and POK is currently 600v third rail. I can see how it's simpler in some respects to extend third rail further north as you can simply use existing MNR electric equipment further up the line, and you only have to electrify the balance of track. At the same time, it's a shame that we would then be stuck needing to purchase 3rd rail specific equipment when everything else out of the NY area is running under over-head power. I suppose we just build East Side Access to only be 3rd rail compatible, so we're going to be stuck with that for a good long while..
Use third rail for service in/out of Penn Station and overhead wires north of Croton-Harmon (the station in Croton-on-Hudson and the terminus for electric Hudson Line service). No LIRR trains use overhead wires, nor do most Metro-North trains. NJT uses overhead wires, but NJT is a separate agency with its own problems (which includes the extent of electrification). As for ESA, the connection being used for that was built decades ago with certain types of rolling stock in mind (hence the decision to keep the C3s out) and would require either new tunnels or modification of existing ones, which also means interrupting subway service.
I’m a little late to this, but I live along the Hartford Line. I don’t know why it’s not electrified, or why the hell no one talks about it. I didn’t know it existed until 6 months ago and it’s amazing. I wholeheartedly think if they talked about it more and electrified it, it’d be huge for this area. Don’t they have some option that can exercise to build more M8s and then just use that on the line?
"Public services do not need to be profitable. They need to SERVE THE PUBLIC."
I cannot believe this needs to be said as much as it does.
isn't that the same problem the postal service has?
“BuT hiGhwAys pAy fOR thEmsELves!!”
I always call bullshit on that argument, if they paid for themselves they wouldn’t be falling apart.
@@MarioYoshi4723 Agreed. Unless it's a toll road, it really doesn't pay for itself...
It's simply unfeasible under capitalism. The POINT of capitalism is to expand profiteering (see: "exploitation" or "theft") to all possible ends and finding new means to extract further profit, since the Tendency for the Rate of Profit to Fall requires infinite expansion (in an increasingly finite Earth) or else profit will fall.
It's not just some funny coincidence that public services were incredible under the USSR, socialist China and many other socialist experiments. When you put power in the hands of the workers instead of in the hands of the elite, things that benefit everyone (healthcare, public transit, education) all improve in both quality AND access.
...and, *no:* simply "voting" won't do anything; aforementioned elites would never allow a system to exist that's so powerful as America's so-called democracy is mythologised to be. Why would the ultra-powerful not only allow but _pay for_ a system that could bring about an end to their tyranny? Such a system never existed, and they want you to imagine their sham-democracy works so you'll waste your time on that instead of making actual, effective changes. All capitalist countries do this, of course, not just America. "The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house."
The only way to improve life for the working class is to exile those who exploit us to the point of not only them bringing about the end of humanity, but all life on Earth. These exploiters can only be removed in the same way they established their power in the first place; by cannon and by rifle.
@@metalproofed3089 Yuuuuuuup
I feel like amtrack is achievemnt hunting in a game like " Stay un- electrified for 100 years"
I mean, to be fair, it's kind of hard to do huge capital projects like that in the position Amtrak has been in since its inception. Especially when they don't own the vast majority of track miles they operate on, not to mention the chronic lack of federal funding like you see with the federal highway fund. That said, at least they got something reasonable in the last budget. Sadly, doubt they're getting much more.
@@eirinym You mean without asking the military to step in and call it matter of national security because High Speed Rail can move personnel and equipment around the country very quickly.
The only fault with that is the New Hampshire to Boston electrification in the late 1990s. so I guess if Amtrak doesn’t do anything for the next century then It will get that achievement.
Civilization 6 achievement
@@KRYMauL They won't though, that's not really the military's style. Instead if anything they'll pay some company billions for a half-baked high-speed diesel or rocket-propelled locomotive instead.
Also, I find that Detroit has such potential for a great commuter/regional/international rail system but it's being hindered by old ideologies and the dark legacy of the fall of Detroit.
Plus given that it will be the safest place to be once Florida sinks below sea level, it won't be long before people go there again.
Chicago-Detroit/Windsor-Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal-Quebec City.
200kph+ speed train in that corridor would be amazing.
@@ianhomerpura8937 I jokingly call Michigan "inverse Florida".
@@mbogucki1 VIA Rail is already upgrading their trains. If only CN and CP weren't full of PSR simps as well, it would have been far better.
It’s been said before but Detroit just doesn’t have a lot of money to go around and when they do get federal funding leaders seem to spend it in the worst ways.
The metro area needs transportation experts who can oversee projects or something
The freight rail line Amtrak from Michigan city to Chicago is sooo slow, using the SSL right of way is actually brilliant
Especially since they are double tracking the SSL now and eliminating the street running segment in Michigan City
Does anyone know how the street-running changes might affect that?
@@samwalko Amtrak wouldn't use the old streetrunning segment, anyway. But yes, the Double Track project makes the idea much more feasible.
@@samwalko the last of the street running has been done away with, since south shore started the new double track project, and I'm not sure where amtrak territory start's in Michigan city but if its west of town then the trains wouldn't even enter the former street running section since they would be on their own main. although one thing I am curious about is how would the connection from union station to the electric lines/south shore be made
@@martinfaland7819 The Amtrak/SSL diamond is in the middle of the two parts that were street running where it switched from 10th street to 11th street. That said, my understanding was that the tracks would still be street-running but just with a second track; however, upon further review, this at most applies to 11th street. The 10th street street running is to be moved entirely to the side of the road, and that's the only part Amtrak would need to use.
The same fight about electrification has been going on in the UK for DECADES. The fact is that government agencies find it super hard to finance capital expenditure for electrification (with a repayment time of 60 years or longer) versus the "quick fix" finance deal you can get for some modification to the trains. It's incredibly frustrating.
Which is why it's very weird that HS2 is being heavily criticized. People need experience with electrification. Once you have enough people that can work on it, plus the funding and equipment needed, the task would be much faster.
Just like India electrifying at the rate of 6,000 km a year.
It's completely bonkers if you know anything about capital markets and other stuff. Like banks LOVE to lent money to government and such agency would always pay it back and if you take out loan for 50+ yrs, not only are the payment so small you can fit them in the consequent increased margins but also gets incredibly small interest rate. It's no brainer for a government to take out loans on hugely beneficial infra project like High Speed Rail, electrifications, subways or my favourite Nuclear Power Plants. IDK who or why someone came up with "the government need ROI within shorter time than large corpos" but it must have been to intentionally cause harm.
@@hhvhhvcz it's got quite a lot to do with populism in politics since the early 00s - short term projects win votes because the average voter doesn't care about anything after the next 10 years
@@ianhomerpura8937 HS2 will be dead within the next 3 months. The UK is bankrupt (as is the USA).
At least we have the admittedly very weak excuse that some of the tunnels are too narrow for catenaries. Still compared to say the money put into the bloody silvertown tunnel it is chump change. I'd say electrify instead of HS2 phase 2 but I zero faith that the government would actually invest the money into rail.
While my parents are from NJ, I was born in Westchester. They specifically chose Westchester because of the convenience of the Metro North's Hudson Line to NYC where my father worked as an attorney. Heck, I was almost named Hudson because we lived by the river. We lived up a hill and only around a ten-minute walk down to the Metro North station in a very walkable area.
The Hudson Line/southern Empire Corridor line along the Hudson is one of the most beautiful routes in the nation simply because of the views at 0:00. ESPECIALLY during Fall. Seeing those Palisades makes me grateful of all the nature that the US has to offer. The US is BLESSED to have such wonders, and it saddens me when such nature is threatened. It is why we must protect it.
I miss the efficiency of MTA, for all its flaws. I grew up in queens so I'm more familiar with the L and M but the Metro North and LIRR should be the standard for commuter rail around the country.
@@MelGibsonFan Boston just got LIRR's former GM, Phillip Eng, as their new GM.
I’m riding the Empire Corridor in a couple days so that’s nice to hear.
I'm an airline pilot based out of Chicago, one of the routes I fly is Chicago-O'hare to South Bend airport. It's a 20 minute flight but it usually takes almost 2 hours from boarding to deplaning after you add up boarding time and taxi time to get from the runways to the terminal at O'hare. Many times the flight is delayed due to weather at O'hare or mechanical issues with the aging CRJ-200s that we use to run the route. The South Shore Line pulls directly into the South Bend airport terminal, but to get from the South Shore Line stop at the SBN airport to O'hare takes THREE AND HALF HOURS and there are only seven trains a day. Even driving can take up to three hours during rush hour. So this totally absurd and pointless flight will continue to exist for the foreseeable future because we can't get our trains to go 90 miles in less than 2 hours. Don't get me started on the Milwaukee-O'hare route, which already has a bus service that takes less time than the flight.
That's insane! I just looked on the map and a route like Chicago - Gary - South Bend - Fort Wayne - Toledo - Detroit looks like a prime example for an _conventional_ (read: relativly cheap) high speed (160km/h / 100mph) connection (if you don't want a real highspeed).
It would be as fast as the direct car route between those cities (if not faster), just barely the range where a train ride does not feel too long and connecting 2 huge cities with several midsize ones (and small ones with local trains).
And it would be faster than your flight to reach South Bend.
@@steemlenn8797 Part of the problem will always be: What do you do when you get to Fort Wayne, Toledo, etc. to get to your final destination? Many final destinations are now in the suburbs. Local public transit no longer exists or is not practical or safe to use as it was in the 1920s.
I've always thought the Air Wisconsin CRJ2 routes out of ORD are a sad reminder of the lack of train travel in the region. One hundred years ago, you could probably ride Milwaukee Road's Hiawatha train and get there a half hour faster than any alternative today
I also think it will always exist for the convenience of connecting passengers. If I'm going to London, I might as well just get on a plane in South Bend than drive or take the train all the way to the city, and then find my way to the airport. That's really who the flight is intended for, not people solely flying between South Bend and Chicago.
Currently to take the SSL from Chicago to South Bend its about two hours and twenty five minutes. If you're starting in downtown Chicago, the SSL is going to be faster than going out to O'Hare.
The Southshore Double Track project should help solve the timing. Currently it takes about an hour and forty minutes to get from Chicago to Michigan City. Once the double track project is complete it'll be down to sixty seven minutes. Total time from Millennium Park to South Bend would be around an hour and forty fiveish minutes. They're also going to be running more trainsets more frequently.
If you want to go from O'Hare you have to add in about an hour for the blue line.
The SSL stop at SBN was also only supposed to be temporary but became permanent. The route into South Bend follows a bunch of weird sidings and turns that slow the train down. The original plan called for building a station into downtown South Bend. There's been take in the last few years of bring that plan to life, however, costs are pretty high. Between the double track and west lake corridor projects, unless South Bend funds the entire project, its probably not going to happen anytime soon. However, if it does happen, and your final destination is South Bend itself, SSL may actually become the more attractive option.
8:30 - "You don't need to make public services profitable, you just need to make it serve the public." Well said!
There's one way to make them profitable while still keeping the services public: real estate. That is how Japan did it: buy all the land around the main railway stations, then densify the hell out of them all at once, then rent them to all kinds of businesses and institutions like residences, offices, schools, and shopping centers. This makes sure that there will always be foot traffic in and out of the stations.
@@ianhomerpura8937 correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t the railways in Japan privatized?
@@ianhomerpura8937 that’s how most of the original rail lines in the US were built as well. We seemed to have forgotten how to do that, except for Brightline now.
@@smallflame85 they are. But Japan has been doing these massive transit oriented developments even before the JNR was privatized and broken up in 1987. So far it has been very effective in keeping the railways out of the red, especially in JR East and JR Central.
@@ianhomerpura8937 density around train stations? In the US? A pipe dream
I was talking to a guy that worked on that line when they were upgrading it. He said the line is ready for electrification. They future proofed the line. Eventually they want to use the New Haven to Hartford portion for HSR to Boston.
Finally, Central Mass can into Northeast Corridor.
They finally gave up on reviving the old Air Line, huh?
@@ClockworksOfGL Too many NIMBYS. The only way to fix the section between New Haven and Providence is to pull the curves out. Too much old money and boomers.
A new direct, electrified HSR route between Hartford (actually, Manchester) and Worcester (actually, Auburn) via Sturbridge, paralleling I-87 and the Mass Pike, would make the inland route significantly shorter and faster than the Shoreline route, and add the capacity people think is necessary. This highway corridor is much more feasible than the New Haven-Providence routing which was being promoted a few years ago, and would add direct service to NYC for Worcester, the second largest city in New England.
Imagine if tomorrow, Amtrak announced that they were planning a new electrification project on one of these lines.
I'd hope it'd be Boston-Springfield
@@ninyaninjabrifsanovichthes45 That wouldn't be Amtrak, that would be MassDOT.
ten thousand housewives would be protecting in DC about the dangers of electricity and a whole lot of NIMBY talk.
Yes pls do a video on the entire empire corridor, upstate has some great cities with good bones and decent public transit and I feel like strong train lines would be a huge boost to an area that’s a lot better than ppl give credit
I second this wholeheartedly. The corridor between NYC, Upstate and Toronto is so ripe with good transit potential that it kills me that no one is talking about it. I’m from Syracuse and the fact that we don’t have NEC style routes up here like we used to sucks
Yess I would like also a video on the empire corridor
Empire Service benefits from good frequency.
indeed, would be very cool to see what problems need to be rectified on the route
If we're talking about true upstate (Albany -> North) meh.
There are bones. Huge D&H presence at one time. But populations in the north country don't head very far south and those in NYC don't usually go past Lake George. Sacandoga is loading up on NYCers as well and it's only drivable today. The tracks are under water.
Toga could be a good stop during track season. However most of the socialites live there for the summer. They travel twice: Once in June and once in September. The trip from NYC is waaaay to long just for the day and the tix too expensive.
Lake George is the next possible tourist stop but there's no place for a station. The D&H is now RT9 with the CSX single track all the way over in Fort Edward. Again those people travel twice per year.
For winter sports its far faster to drive then take a train. Going to Whiteface? It's 2.2 hours or so from Toga via car at 65 to 70 MPH. The trains can't break 55 in many places here.
1. Always under construction south of Albany.
2. CSX
3. North of Albany is many more turns.
Albany has tried to get high speed rail up to at least Albany for years and can't accomplish even that. It's simply too expensive.
If there was a more rail traffic just to Saratoga to start that'd be a huge win imo for a reasonable price of Metro North not $89. I'd go to far more Mets and Islanders games.
Electrifying the Wolverine Corridor and using the SSL right-of-way makes a ton of sense. Maybe even stopping at Gary, too. And keep in mind that a good chunk of the line in Indiana is slated to be double-tracked.
Only problems I could see would be having to deal with CN (like you said) and track speed, especially between Miller and Kensington.
I've had this idea of turning the South Shore into a intercity corridor for a while, although my idea includes getting the eastern Amtrak trains on at South Bend. The way I came up with to avoid that section is to use an old Pere Marquette right of way that comes close to the South Shore near Miller then runs on the south side of Gary on an elevated ROW, then the line comes to the east end of the Indiana Harbor Belt's yard in Hammond, from where you can pick up the former Michigan Central line for a straight shot through to Kensington. The PM part is double tracked but needs new bridges, the MC line needs new tracks next to the IHB, and the bridge over the Little Calumet River is still there but it is signal track.
Using the South Shore to Michigan may be a temporary solution.
The VP of Amtrak State-Supported Services has mentioned that the CREATE Grand Crossing Project is not dead, but its mission would change. If the proposed St. Charles Air Line Connector gets built (they're waiting on word of the MEGA grant now) Michigan/eastbound trains could one day travel from Union Station onto CN's former IC mainline to Grand Crossing, where trains would transfer onto Amtrak-owned passenger-only tracks that would be built on the abandoned New York Central right-of-way out of Chicago, connecting to Porter and the line into Michigan.
Where the South Shore Line would play a more critical role long-term is for a return of the Hoosier State corridor train. Once South Shore's West Lake Extension is complete, in 2025 or so, Amtrak wants to negotiate with INDOT on the possibility of bringing the Chicago-Indianapolis train back, likely with terms similar to those currently being offered to Ohio on the 3C+D corridor - all capital costs and nearly all operating subsidies covered for the first five years, provided the state picks up the tab on operating costs afterward.
The same Amtrak VP suggested that a new Hoosier State could serve as a showcase for what is possible on state-supported corridors, and mentioned an extensive rebuild of trackage between Dyer and Indianapolis, likely up to 110MPH standards. Why not electrification as well?
Honorable mention for the Pacific Surfliner made my day. Especially since the segment between LA and Anaheim will need to be electrified for the CAHSR. My big wishlist would be for LOSSAN to electrify the entirety of the Pacific Surfliner corridor from San Luis Obispo to San Diego as well as all of the Metrolink lines.
I believe SCRRA/Metrolink only owns the tracks as far as Moorpark, and UP owns them beyond that. LA to SD is the busiest US passenger rail corridor outside the NE, and it makes so much sense to electrify. One of the biggest hurdles though would be Redondo Junction to Fullerton Junction, since that's owned by BNSF and is a busy freight corridor. Fullerton Junction to the Orange/SD County line is owned by SCRRA, and from there to San Diego is owned by NCTD.
One thing CAHSR is proposing is building a new intermodal facility in Colton, since based on their research there's a number of intermodal trains traveling from the Midwest that go to Hobart Yard in LA, only for their containers to then be trucked back out to their destination in the Inland Empire. So by building a new facility in Colton, those trains would terminate there and open up those train slots for HSR.
The other obvious biggest hurdle is the fact the tracks along the coast are prone to being impacted by surf and erosion, as is happening right now with the tracks in San Clemente closed to passenger traffic (I believe freight is still moving through there at reduced speeds) likely through December. The tracks along the Del Mar cliffs are also at serious risk, though I have been seeing plans move forward on a tunnel underneath Del Mar to move the tracks away from the cliffs. So tracks would need to be moved away from the surf before electrification could happen, or you do it in phases: LA to Anaheim, Anaheim to Laguna Niguel, SD to Oceanside (after rerouting Del Mar and possibly a Miramar Hill bypass tunnel), then Laguna Niguel to Oceanside.
One final thing, and I've been wondering if maybe this is why HSR/electrification is ending in Anaheim, is that the Surf Line has autoracks going between San Diego/Baja CA and the Midwest. Just east of Anaheim is a junction that connects the Surf Line with the BNSF mainline, with freight trains going between SD and San Bernardino/West Colton. Though given there isn't a clearance issue with electrification and double stacks, and autoracks are about the same height, then that shouldn't be an issue. If the Surf Line were electrified all the way to SD, I've thought that hypothetically HSR could continue on it past Anaheim to SD via Oceanside, until their route through Riverside and Murrieta is completed.
I've lived in Madison, Wi my whole life and it's so infuriating to know that despite being a growing city of about 300,000 (and about 700,000 in metro area) and once having two railroad stations, now the closest Amtrak station is 28 miles outside the city in Columbus. It's so dissapointing to see all the stations in Madison and surrounding cities just sitting there. There was a plan in 2011 to have a high speed rail system connect from Chicago to Minneapolis that would finally reconnect the city, but our then governor (Scott Walker) refused the $810 million provided to fund it's construction because "It wouldn't be profitable". He then decided to spend $1.7 billion on reconstructing the Zoo Interchange in Milwaukee that solved little to nothing in traffic...
You are so right! It is so frustrating that Madison doesn’t have passenger rail service.
Add Milwaukee to the electrification and run trains through to Milwaukee from Detroit.
agreed, we were so close and he was a stick in the mud about it. hopefully, the project can get going again at some point.
Have you ever looked into going to Chicago by first taking the Badger Bus over to Milwaukee and then taking the Hiawatha train down to Union Station? Turns out that it's not feasible. Yes, the Badger Bus does go to the Milwaukee Intermodal station...but the Badger Bus arrives there about 5 minutes after the train leaves, so there's an 1.5 hour layover. So it's way faster, cheaper, and more convenient to just take the bus from Madison to O'hare.
@@radishpineapple74 As much as I’ve liked Badger Bus over the years, they supported killing the train extension to Madison, and I’m sure it’s not an accident that they don’t connect.
The great thing about Virginia is that not only did it indeed buy the CSX ROW between DC and Richmond, but it also bought the CSX S-Line in tandem with North Carolina. This means we could build an entirely new passenger-rail corridor from Raleigh to DC and up the rest of the NEC.
*half the csx row, but for such a heavily used corridor, it's still a good deal
I don’t quite understand the WAS to Richmond purchase, as it’s phrased “much of.” Linear or lateral? Who will dispatch it? In any case, more parallel track is going in, and the megabux Long Bridge over the Potomac is almost contracted, with lots of fed dollars I think. The other megabux project, to change everything about pax rail from RVR to PTB, is sleeping quietly, though the plans have been approved for a few years. Likewise S Line HSR is sleeping, aside from survey contracts.
A new electrified corridor, inshallah.
@@kitchin2 - last I read - Dispatch - Amtrak from DC to Alexandria and then CSX even though Virginia Passenger Rail Authority owns (or will own) the right of way. I really don't understand that - perhaps someone else has better information.
They should electrify DC to Richmond to Raleigh to Charlotte since NC owns the Ral to Charlotte line.. then they can extend to Atlanta later
A small problem that wasn’t really touched on with the Amtrak Michigan line is that MDOT and Amtrak don’t own the ROW for the last four stops, including Detroit. To get wires into Detroit and out to the terminus at Pontiac, they’d still have to deal with CN
In my opinion it shouldn’t be hard to nationalize rail owned by Canadian Northern because they are a foreign railroad. They really have no excuse to be owning any track in the US.
@@gumbyshrimp2606 MDOT could use eminent domain to claim the rest of the tracks on the route, or Amtrak could use dual mode operation
CN also owns the short section through Battle Creek.
@@gumbyshrimp2606 Why do Canadian public agencies buy rail cars and locos built in Sacramento? Why are FerroMex locos all over central US? Why does Grupo Mexico own the FEC in Florida? Profit, finite capital. Politics in the Buy America law, maybe shenanigans in Florida. Brightline, owned by SoftBank, a Japanese company, is certainly seeing capital constraints.
@@gumbyshrimp2606 CN's US lines are owned on paper by an American railroad, specifically Wisconsin Central Ltd or Grand Trunk Corporation.
Interesting. I'd prioritize the NYC to Schenectady line only because Albany being the state capital would benefit from faster service to and from NYC. Next would be the Springfield line. The Detroit - Chicago line, although logical, would require more coordination. Along with electrification, these routes should also eliminate all highway grade crossings. As long as you are going to spend the money, do it right. I live near Richmond, VA, and take the Northeast corridor trains between home and NYC. There is a huge difference in service between Richmond and DC versus DC to NYC. Hopefully, this route would also be considered. It would still mean deselization between Richmond and Norfolk/Hampton Roads.
Aka build a tunnel under the James with navy approval
Personally I'd do NY and CT in the opposite order because CT has a lot of local service still using diesel, and you don't need to deal with multiple agencies. Most of the NY local service is already electric anyway.
But yeah the cost/benefit of those lines is clearly way better than the Michigan corridor which doesn't have any regional rail service and isn't that frequent.
The new locos will be dual mode at least.
NYC to SCH sounds great however its more likely to stop in ALB. There's not enough daily traffic in SCH.
Albany has been trying to upgrade NYC to ALB for years as well as bring in HSR.
It's not going to happen. It's far too expensive which is why it fails in the budget every year. It'd be nice but there's no way.
What we here: A man speaking straight facts
what the US government hears: An actual good use of taxes
What congress here's: A complete waste of their money
I just wish Amtrak had more vertical lines. There is no reason that going from Detroit to Buffalo requires you to go all the way back to Chicago to go east. Literally one short line would save hours on a trip.
Hear hear! I'm down here in Georgia, and to get from Atlanta (middle-north Georgia) to Savannah (southeast Georgia), you need to ride all the way north to D.C., then back down south. It takes less than 5 hours to drive, but almost 30 hours to ride a train. It's absurd.
@@LoremasterYnTaris Brightline will take that over I suspect once they are done with Jacksonville and Tampa.
trains can only drive horizontal. they cannot drive vertical because of gravity
@@leonpaelinck Lines that run from north to south instead of east to west
Detroit to Toledo could very feasibly be a regional rail line, especially given that the existing ROW is already quad tracked and passes through numerous dense, moderately walkable suburbs of both cities and the city of Monroe as well. Unfortunately, I dont see the car cult leaving Michigan's politics for a long time, and our attempts at commuter rail in the mid 2010s failed despite being an even more obvious and easy project
I grew up in South Bend and used the Wolverine quite a bit in grad school, so it makes me quite happy to see the Wolverine and South Shore mentioned. MDOT has been painfully slow at upgrading the Kalamazoo-Dearborn portion to 110 mph, but at least KZoo-Battle Creek is up to 110 now. Just wish they would also double track the whole thing.
why, it dont have that much trains
The Japanese, Germans, Spanish, French, Chinese, or even British should have been hired to do the job. MDOT is incompetent.
@@dknowles60 Maybe it doesn't have many trains because it can't expand service with the current setup and shortages...In 2019, the Wolverine alone had over 500,000 riders, making it the 3rd most popular Amtrak route in the Midwest (behind Hiawatha and Lincoln Service). The Blue Water also uses those tracks up to Battle Creek, which saw almost 200K riders in 2019.
They are definitely popular services despite only having 4 round trips total (3 Wolverine, 1 Blu Water).
Hearing the president of Amtrak talk about "making it profitable" makes me downright angry. How can someone running a public service be that out of touch. Absolutely ridiculous. It's people like that who are to blame for the US not having quality, affordable, and electric High Speed Rail.
Amtrak was mandated to be profitable by Congress when it was created. It is out of touch, but I can't solely blame one person who has to balance the competing pressures of both the service-demanding public AND congress which provides necessary operating funding.
The Empire Corridor under Manhattan unironically have overhead caternary lines in the cuts.
Amtrak’s leaders going from Anderson to Gardner is like Paper Mario Sticker Star to Color Splash
One is slightly less worse then the other, SLIGHTLY
Edit: Bill Flynn is Origami King, not terrible, but not all that great either
so basically next to no improvement at all?
Honestly as bad as Anderson was, I’m surprised Trump didn’t appoint someone worse.
this is such a perfect comparison LMAO
At least Gardner was with Amtrak before all of them...remember, he worked for Amtrak when Wick was CEO.
We need 1000 year door level management for amtrak
I live on the Springfield-Hartford-New Haven line, it would be great to have that electrified especially since it cuts straight through my town. It would ALSO stop the annoying business of having to have an engine swap at a certain point.
*WHOA!!!* I am shocked the Hiawatha Service is not among the three routes or AT LEAST in the honorable mentions. IIRC it is the busiest route in the midwest. I get that a lot of the track belongs to freight lines, but so do those of some of the honorable mentions...
The stretch of rail from Washington, D.C. to Richmond, Virginia is a prime candidate for electrfication also.
The Surfliner tracks are going to be moved inland (they are dangerously close to the shore in San Clemente and train service is actually suspended between Oceanside and Irvine right now because of erosion), so that'd be a good time to do it. PS: I'm not sure *WHERE* the tracks can get moved inland, especially north of Oceanside since the USMC base Camp Pendleton effectively takes up everything between Oceanside and Orange County
If the tracks DO get electrified, then maybe Metrolink and the Coaster (commuter rail lines) could get on the bandwagon
The plan right now is to tunnel inland along the Del Mar Bluffs...if they're smart enough, they can actually shore up the coast at San Clemente to not even have to worry about any erosion...just look at what Network Rail did at Dawlish for an idea.
@@andyinsdca Yes they can, the tracks in Dawlish are right next to the water as well...and in that case it's the violent Atlantic storms they have to deal with...it wasn't even that hard of an engineering feat either. Do you know what they're doing to stabilize it...installing steel supports to either side of the sliding earth and then putting in horizontal braces to hold it in place.
Regardless of whether electrification for the Wolverine happens one day, going through Indiana via the SSL tracks will make things sooo much better. We’re going 110 mph through the west side of the state just to crawl through Michigan City-Gary at at maybe 10 mph.
That has always been the bottleneck, I can’t believe there’s a solution that seems relatively simple, yet hasn’t been touched for the past couple decades.
What's especially funny to me is that they use the South Shore as a detour route. One of my favorite video I've found here is an Amtrak train going over the big blue bridge in Hegewisch, Chicago.
@@hawkeyetherailfan did not know that, incredible.
@@conorreynolds9739 it is because car companies bought out the us government resulting in lack of trains
Just one point of clarification. Amtrak does not own the tracks from Poughkeepsie to Schenectady. They are still owned by CSX, but Amtrak has been leasing the section since 2012. The section is actually known as the Hudson Subdivision. By the terms of the lease, Amtrak is responsible for maintenance and capital responsibilities. But I'm not sure if that would complicate the electrification of the track.
Very good points here! Whenever I ride Amtrak between New Haven and Springfield I wish the line was electrified.
"Public services don't need to make profit, they need to serve the public"
Based and civics-pilled
Hospitals: Ima pretend I didn’t hear that
Amtrak technically does have a requirement to attempt to make a profit. This could be removed, but it might require a corporate reorganization.
"I don't need to worry about if my massive spending makes any sense, just increase taxes"
BTW, that's how you get mass famines. You guys get in charge of everything and people start starving to death.
You decide you need fancy new rail line, and take the steel away from building tractors.
@@TheOwenMajor That’s not at all what he said. Making sense and being profitable are 2 very different requirements. Sewers aren’t profitable. Neither are courts, or streets, or libraries, or schools (at least k-12). Whether those things are worth building is judged based off of the net benefit to society, both in terms of efficiency (better infrastructure means more business and more efficient business) or in terms of standard of living (people not constantly dying of cholera) rather than whether that specific project will pay for itself. After all, if something costs 20 million, and causes a rise in gdp of 60 million, is it really a bad investment for the state?
Also, I know you’re talking about the Soviet and Chinese famines, but I should point out that the main reasons for those famines were not accidents with the budget, but that the states were deliberately exporting food produced in order to have the capital to industrialize faster. This decision was incredibly cruel and stupid (and in the case of the Holodomor genocidal) but they weren’t cases of state spending run amok, and they weren’t unique to communism (see British policy having landlords in Ireland produce beef and continue exporting it during the potato famine to England to keep food cheap for factory workers, or similar policy in India to keep cotton cheap and causing multiple famines and 10’s of millions of deaths).
@@matthew87451 Indian goverment is also Massacring Muslims in India
How can fucking America not have electrified rail? As an Euroman it's an absurd.
We have mainline electrification from Boston to Washington, D.C., and from Philadelphia to Harrisburg in Pennsylvania.
@@OldsVistaCruiser I have electrification between all major cities and some minor ones, around 60% of lines. Most was done in the last 30 years after capitalism was invented.
@@malakimphoros2164 - Which country? We have a very strong ultra conservative faction in the States, which opposes electric vehicles because they claim that the electric grid is insufficient, yet they oppose modernizing the grid!
@@OldsVistaCruiser Poland, we have many russian agents in the gouvernement who don't want fossil fuels to go, even if it's an unsustainable money drain that ultimately benefits our greatest enemy.
But there are plenty trains, sometimes late but generally they are fine.
@@malakimphoros2164 sad thing is europe doesnt have one agreed on electricity voltage
A couple of problems with the Michigan Service - first, Amtrak and the State of Michigan own the line from Porter, IN to Dearborn, MI - the corridor runs from Chicago Union Station to Pontiac, MI. Also, the tracks through Battle Creek are owned by the Canadian National. The South Shore route into Chicago is a horrible route compared to the NS - it's longer, and it has probably close to 75 road crossings at grade, compared to only a handful on the NS route - and the NS route is much more direct. Electrification is an excellent idea, but the cost to electrify tracks into Chicago Union Station would be cost prohibitive for one route. The better option would be for dua
l mode equipment - electrify Porter to Dearborn and use dual mode equipment...
Yes!!!! Living in Springfield for a long time always wanted that route to be electrified. Glad we got that shout out.
Springfield-Boston would be an amazing idea, connecting Central Mass to the rest of the NEC.
@@ninyaninjabrifsanovichthes45 Agreed. Would be nice to have a good commute to Boston.
The Wolverine line runs from Pontiac Michigan to Chicago.From Pontiac to Dearborn CN then MDOT owned tracks from Dearborn to Kalamazoo,then Amtrak owned Kalamazoo to Porter Indiana.Amtrak has full right of way from Dearborn to Porter Indiana and large sections of 110mph.Almost 90% of the trip is free of freight .
Glad to hear there is an effort to improve train service between DC and RVa. I grew up In Richmond and considering retiring there in a few years.
They should extend it even further down to Raleigh and Charlotte. Both cities are growing at a rapid pace, given that both are becoming financial and tech centers.
And rename it to the east coast corridor
@@ianhomerpura8937 I do think that's in the current plans. We have to hope the current governor doesn't sabotage them, though, as Republicans are often anti-train for some reason.
@@jamalgibson8139 his suburbanite voters take vre, i think he just has no idea about it cause nothing happened yet
Virginia plays nice with CSX and NS so I doubt electrification there. Prob Petersburg to Raleigh S-line HSR would happen first. Examples of how VA plays: very big $ to CSX and NS for cap improvements over the last two decades. 2. Moving NPN station nine miles up line away from CSX port. 3. Buying wanky Buckingham Branch (CSX coal, so uncertain long term future). 4. Buying non-mainline from RNK to VT. The deals are cautious on frequency increases. Results have been good by all measures: ridership, operating margins, low ticket prices. But not as bold as to electrify WAS to Richmond, in my opinion. Bonus tip: PTB to NFK is the best rail in the state. Somebody at N&W knew how to lay track, and NS maintains it.
Part of the problem is the costs have outstripped inflation. So if we were to build using the estimated per mile cost of 1999 with inflation factored in (4 mil), this would be a lot easier of a decision. The problem is that for some reason the per mile costs have increased dramatically. I remember reading that one of the new haven branch lines on metro north(I think waterberry) had two estimates done for electric, one done in the mid 2000’s had it at about 8 million per mile, while one done a few years later had it at 15 million a mile. If we are to do these projects we need to figure out why this stuff has dramatically increased in costs so much. Trains already have a hard enough time getting funding, so we need to be able to maximize the little bit we do get because if we keep letting costs ballon nothing will get built.
8:59 Gorgeous shot. All of the scenes were amazing, really.
A branch line here in Germany was recently electrified, they use EMUs with batteries onboard so only sections of the line had to be fitted with an overhead catenary, the rest of the route is run on battery power that is recharged in those wire-stretches (like larger stations along the line)
That should be implemented in the USA
That sounds similar to what's happening in Cardiff and the South Wales Valleys. Basically the local lines are being electrified but, to save costs, they are leaving some sections unelectrified (an example is through Caerphilly on the Rhymney Line or through Taff's Well/Pontypridd on the Merthyr/Rhondda lines). The new Stadler FLIRT and Citylink trains will be fitted with batteries in order to run through the unelectrified sections.
some good news, the springfield corridor (at least in ct) is under study to be electrified! i'm glad i live in ct when it comes to trains, stuff seems really promising
Is that true? I had last heard that Connecticut DOT was actually looking into purchasing god awful duel-mode diesel locos that wouldn’t be implemented until like 2030 (ironically, the duel mode locos would cost MORE than actual overhead line electrification)
@@toadscoper4575 yeah, that was true but a lot of investment has been made in the last few months only honestly, and the state rail plan draft came out and has a LOT to do with passenger rail and green solutions. it won't be perfect, but it's def a step in the right direction
I live on the Virginia Services Corridor. Right now I think the biggest thing is that they are trying to triple track down the line a ways. rail traffic can get a bit congested at times.
Thanks for this great video. Having said that, does Amtrak have any actual electrification projects at the time?
N.B.: it was exciting to hear you mention the Wolverine corridor. As a foriegn visitor (European), I chose the train to travel from Chicago to Detroit 2 years ago. Most people at the convention I was attending in Chicago reacted me like "Why don't you fly?" but I simly had no energy to waste to explain in length the benfits of railing instead of flying, especially on a distance of 400-500 km. They regarded me as a bit of a lunatic, a maverick at best (well, after all, those crazy Europeans are in the habit of traveling by train, so why not) 😆I honestly hope for the best for American rail. You used to be a great railroad nation, you can make it again!
I hope Amtrak is seeing your videos, because they really need to hire you.
Fr
The south shore is double tracking from Gary to Michigan city right now. New station at miller and Michigan city.
Even with our current grid (not lots of renewable generation) switching to electric power cuts the emissions of a car approximately in half.
I can’t think of any reason to assume that trains wouldn’t be roughly similar. Add onto that the lower operational costs and we’re basically saying that we can save money at the same time that we fight climate change?!?
Sign. Me. Up!
It would actually be far less because less of a need to mine lithium as they get their power from overhead lines, so it would be even better
@@LiamMcBride I actually wasn’t even speaking to the manufacturing emissions. Just the emissions of transporting every mile. You’re absolutely right though!
This is a really good point.
Pennsylvania having one of the best electrified routes with the Keystone Line (Philly to Harrisburg) is so funny to me.
6:13 i like how the locomotives in the picture you chose are both AC only
They are both part of multi-system locomotive families, however.
Apart from Talgo’s offerings, Siemens has the Sprinter family, Bombardier (Now Alstom) had the TRAXX, and Alstom also has the Prima, all of which also have internally-powered (currently diesel) variants as well.
@@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis yes, i know. thanks to my job i'm very familiar with all of them.
@@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis you also seem to have some outdated information there, the siemens eurosprinter family hasn't been a thing anymore. it was replaced in 2010 (12 years ago!) by the vectron family in AC, DC, MS, DE and DM variants.
@@eftalanquest I got the impression that they were still popularly being called Sprinters even after the redesign, at least in part due to Amtrak’s model being officially called the ‘Amtrak Cities Sprinter’, although it is based on the updated platform.
I'd love a longer video on the wolverine line, why we need service to Toledo, the Amtrak plans for service to Windsor, and Michigan Central (which in theory Ford was going to keep the rail for future trains, but it's unclear if they've kept that promise).
I'd like one on CTrail or MBTA commuter rail.
Sweden has railway lines that only see three daily passenger trains in each direction but still are electrified. That’s as far as you can get from how it is in the US.
Once in the 90s I accidentally ended up riding the Springfield Corridor because I was riding in the wrong car when a northbound train toward Boston split at New Haven. I remember the horrible part of getting home being the subsequent stretch from Springfield to Boston.
Sounds like a good plan but what are the odds they won't do it and cite Caltrain's electrification project as the reason why?
The Caltrain upgrade has been messy but not necessarily because of the electrification itself; it's largely been the track upgrades to make it CAHSR-ready and to ensure that the at-grade crossings can work under wire.
I grew up living 5 minutes from the South Shore Line, I find it interesting that Amtrak wants to use the track. Since the South Shore is double tracking from Chicago to Michigan city.
Is it also the sams line that passes through Gary?
yes it goes through gary
25kVac and 1.5kVdc can coexist in the same system, dual tension engines are made in France for this two electrifications for decades, and with Alstom and Siemens in the US, both of them know how to build such engines
The Michigan Line is having issues with just staffing our trains to begin with, the management over here is a mess. Electrification would be nice, though.
Doesn’t it have the highest track speed outside the NEC? For x miles anyway.
@@kitchin2 I think so, yeah. It's cleared to go 110Mi/h from east of Porter, IN to Dearborn, MI, with the exception of a small part of Battle Creek, MI, and east of Dearborn. Something like that.
@@SergeantTeabag Currently, the track is only rated for 110MPH from Porter, IN, to Albion, MI. They've been working on upgrading the remaining sections, but what they do upgrade won't improve service by much since the right-of-way east of Battle Creek is less straight than the western section.
Assuming it was electrified and upgraded to at least higher speeds, I would love being able to take the Wolverine to Detroit to see the White Sox play the Tigers then return to Chicago right after the game
Please just give us a train from Cincinnati -> Cbus -> Cleveland
All the cities are super walkable but none of the nice little walking pockets are connected with transit
Imagine an HSR line between the three C's. Live in Cleveland and work in Cincinnati, with an hour and a half commute. Probably a pipe dream but still, i can dream
@@ohioman4646 Too bad it got killed, but I do agree that we should invest in better service, and not infrequent amtrak trains that take twice as long as it would be to drive and cost a ton of money
@@tonywalters7298 State funding drives Amtrak decisions for sure.
Yeah, those cities need actual rapid transit; Cleveland is the only city that has that. Cincinnati built a subway 100 years ago but never opened it.
As a rare counterexample to many of the long series of dumpster fires involving the freight rail carriers that you've discussed in your videos already, out here in NorCal, the Caltrain / JPBX is successfully working on electrifying one of the most important Union Pacific ROWs from San Jose to San Francisco. It will bring a major improvement to the timetable and energy efficiency as well as ability to eventually go in tunnels and connect to other transit services in SF, and we will have almost the entire metropolis ringed with good electric mass transit to replicate the path of every major freeway and bridge. Hopefully it's just one step in a process of bringing transit sanity from the northeast to the rest of the country.
MDOT blew the budget on the I-94 modernization project, $4 billion to add a 4th lane in each direction in Detroit on the eastside to Conner. Easily could have funded electrification on the Wolverine for the entire cross state route, but no. More highways🙄.
Motorists need to get through Detroit as quickly as possible. It is a safety and also a psychological concern.
@@ednorton47 Detroit could merit it’s own video, but it isn’t surprising a city so oriented around the automobile is having massive issues. Car reliance begets poverty which increases crime. Look at the most violent cities in America like Detroit, New Orleans, and St. Louis. All have really poor public transport.
@@ednorton47 Detroit a tuff city especially the eastside, but ain’t as bad as they say. Take Gratiot instead of the freeway you be fine, ain’t nothing happening to you.
The Norwalk to Danbury (Connecticut) commuter line was electrified in the old New Haven Railroad days. For reasons unknown, the catenaries were since removed.
*The next day* Amtrak electrifies all these routes
Alan - "electrify the 10 miles to get out (of Manhattan)" - if I may, I respectfully disagree. However, I agree with the majority of your commentary, and glad that you are pursuing and sharing these thoughts. Let's look at the Empire Connection - when we say "electrify" - exactly how? Just in the 10 miles from Penn Station to Spuyten Duyvil, there are no less than THREE methods of electrification. Yes, three! At Penn Station, the tunnel contains two modes - 11KV-25HZ AC, and 650VDC (over-riding third rail). At Sputen Duyvil, where the Empire Corridor joins Metro North Railroad, there is 650VDC (under-riding third rail). The 18 Amtrak locomotives that operate on the Empire Corridor are equipped with over-riding pickup shoes, meant to be used the short distance from CP-Empire, into Penn Station, through the East River tubes, and into Sunnyside Yards. These may look very similar and nearly identical to the 31 dual-mode locomotives that serve Metro North Railroad and CDOT - and they are!! Except that the latter have under-riding pickup shoes for operation into Grand Central Terminal. (As you are aware, over-riding third rails are (LIRR/PRR style), and under-riding third rails are (New York Central) style). The third rail shoes on the Amtrak locomotives are retractable, so after they leave the tunnel and transition from electric to diesel-electric power, the shoes are retracted and stowed. This allows them to clear obstacles on the rest of their route - including the third rails on MNR. So, there is a compatibility problem.
What happens when Amtrak trains need to divert to Grand Central Terminal? Long term, the Amtrak shops swap out the third rail pickup shoes, and the Amtrak locomotives operate through the Park Avenue tunnel into GCT using the MNR third rails. Short - term - kind of SOL. That is, unless Amtrak is allowed to operate into GCT under diesel power - and it so happens that the Park Avenue tunnel is the only place in Manhattan where electric trains are required by law. Oops!
This is why Amtrak is looking into the "stupid" sets with battery-power. Rather than designing a dual mode with two different types of pickup shoes (i.e., can you say "Rube Goldberg??"), the theory is that Amtrak could operate into either terminal at either time, and use battery power. As an added bonus - the same locomotives could in theory operate through the North River tubes, and perhaps go to Scranton, the Poconos, or some other route where electrification does not exist, but otherwise could in and out of Penn Station.
Now, when it comes to "custom sets", it so happens that Amtrak wants to build dual-mode Airo sets for use on the North East Corridor. These would switch between diesel power and electric power (three modes: 25KV-60HZ, 12.5KV-60/25Hz, and 11.3V-25Hz). Now, you might say that if Amtrak has catenary wire in the Empire connection tunnel at Penn Station - the same sets in theory could be used for Empire Corridor service. That is, operate out of Penn Station on the 11KV overhead wire, get out of the tunnel, and then operate diesel all the way to Buffalo. This would make sense. It would also make it impossible to divert into GCT. (But it would have the advantage of a single type of equipment, and avoid the "stupid" diesel/battery version of the Airo).
To really do it right, Amtrak would need a dual-mode all-electric version of the Airo set. It would operate AC/DC, and would have no diesel power. It would also require electrification. That is, the catenary wire would be extended "the 10 or so miles" up Manhattan, and the pantograph would operate off of the AC power. At Spuyten Duyvil, the train would transition to the DC third-rail, and use Metro North power up to Croton. Then, new catenary lines would be built there all the way to Poughkeepsie and then to Albany, and Schenectady. As an added bonus, such trains would be fully compatible with the route into GCT, and would also be compatible with the rest of the North East Corridor, and could operate to Boston and Washington - not that they ever would, but in theory it is possible.
So, for about $half-a-billion less, Amtrak would be able to use the diesel-battery locomotives to operate on the North East Corridor. Yay!
(But - what about the Lake Shore Limited???)
I am guessing that the lake shore limited will use the battery powered locomotive to get to Albany, but hopefully it will eventually become the dual voltage locomotive.
Another good electrification project would be the Capitol Corridor from Sacramento to Oakland and San Jose, especially if there ends up being a new tunnel for standard gauge trains under SF bay.
Actually their is some that's is talking about Electrification for Capitol Corridor and also upgrade 125 or 150 mph, though it's 2050 plan, but thats got be sign also.
as a person who lives in a country where the highest speed of the train is 100 mph,(but still most of the rail network is electrified) i can't believe that somebody has to explain to americans that electric locomotives are better
No need to get pretentious
What country? Switzerland?
Love it when the South Shore Line is mentioned in transit videos. I feel seen.
Same tho.
Living in the windy City, I look forward to the day rail is faster and/or more convenient than driving.
It's pretty convenient when it comes to Metra, at least in my opinion. I've only driven into the city from the suburbs once, and taking the train has been the faster option for me. I don't mind walking around, and the buses in the city are pretty inexpensive to use. I live in the suburbs, though, so I don't know what it's like to drive around there.
@@SergeantTeabag they need to make the cta reliable too
@@pakboimsal8498 I've heard that the cta has been ghosting passengers waiting for buses, which is crazy to me.
Oh my god. You pronounced “Schenectady” correctly!!!! I love your content! And glad to see one of the RARE Schenectady shout outs. I’m like a 10 minute walk from the Schenectady Amtrak. I’ll buy you a beer if you’re ever in town haha.
"Higher track speeds like 80mph". America is so behind, it's incredible
Some issues electrifying the Wolverine route is Amtrak/MiDOT share equipment with other Amtrak Midwest routes out of Chicogo and the other Michigan Amtrak routes. It would be more money but maybe more effective for those states to work on electrification together and electrify routes like all 3 Amtrak Michigan routes, Chicago to St Louis, and Chicago to Milwaukee. It would be great to eventually see Chicago and Detroit connected to a Windsor-Toronto-Montreal NEC-style, high speed, electric corridor.
Going back in time to make the PRR finish electrifying the main line to Pittsburgh
Wasn't the PRR's plan originally to electrify from Harrisburg Pa to Chicago back in the 1920's or 1930's?
You mentioned the South Shore 😁
Made me smile.
Another is the Lackawanna Cut-Off. I mean think about it, it's been pure irony that Scranton, the *ELECTRIC* city...doesn't have trains that are electrified. Let alone not having any train service since the early 50s!
Exactly, public services are meant to serve the public. That is why we aim to continue upgrading our Pyongyang Metro, trolleybuses, and railway network to bring them to their potential. Not to mention, I am the only leader in the world who regularly uses a train to get around. Something that was passed down from my grandpa and father
The trams in Chongjin needs to be upgraded.
Train service to Scranton ended in 1963, I used it regularly. The Post Office pulled the plug on the mail cars (nearly half the train) and without that revenue the near broke EL couldn't afford to run the nice train. There is a hotel and restaurant in the old Lackawanna station in Scranton and a nice bar in the old trainshed. Scranton does have steamtown and also a trolley line.
Indeed, every train I saw in DPRK was electric... there were loads of Soviet and Chinese diesel engines electrified in the 1990s for environmental reasons, e.g. the Kanghaenggun class. Glory to the Shining Star of the 21st century!
@@qingyangzhang6093 9,999 more of such comments and you might be able to feed your family with an added carrot to their weekly rice.
@@qingyangzhang6093 Aren't the Kanghaenggun class locomotives based on the Soviet M62 locomotives?
Electrification costs are high enough to think about how many trains to share those costs with.
New Haven to Boston sees 33 Amtrak trains a weekday, New Haven to Springfield sees 24 Amtrak trains a weekday, New York City to Albany sees 14 Amtrak trains per weekday, and Chicago to Detroit sees 6 Amtrak trains a day.
CalTrain is planning to run ? trains per day under it’s new wires soon. They have ordered 19 seven car double level trainsets from Stadler. I certain they plan to use them for more than one round trip per day. Maybe 38 trains??
Where do you set the setpoint on how many trains per day satisfies the costs to electrify? I’m certain 6 trains a day is setting that setpoint too low. What do you think is the appropriate number of trains to make electrification worth the costs?
3:45 "This corridor serves... The Adirondack." A train that hasn't made its way north towards Plattsburgh and Montréal since the start of the pandemic. We've had NO service going to places like Ticonderoga or Westport for a good 2 years. And Amtrak has been silent on any details on when the Adirondack will make its way through... The Adirondacks. 🙁
Ask Joe Biden why he's still keeping the stupid vaccine mandate for foreigners. That's probably why that hasn't returned
Im waiting for the boomers to be like “But Alan, electrification is communism!!!”
Here in Australia, 95% of our suburban rail systems are juiced up. My home city of Perth has line from north to south through the CBD (under it actually) at 95mph and 5 minute frequencies in peak.
Indian Railways also runs wild double stacks with new electric juice jacks.
Indian Railways have some of the most powerful EMUs out there, and most of them serve double stack dedicated freight lines.
@Ian Homer Pura yet the country has no indoor plumbing, and the infrastructure is shit and the government is run by Nazis so you're praising a country that is basically Nazi Germany in modern day.
Australia is interesting cause its like halfway between the US and Europe in terms of transit systems. In the big cities where most of the people live (you'll never see Oz the same way again once you realise it's basically a bunch of city-states) they all have extensive suburban rail systems and a few of them have light rail systems as well (I believe Adelaide is the only major city left whose suburban rail network isn't fully electrified). And NSW and Vic have good regional rail networks as well.
And then you have long-distance trains which are in a very sorry state in Australia these days. First of all, the Indian Pacific and the Ghan have gone from proper rail services to overpriced tourism packages for old rich fuckers because of privatization (same reason the Overland is now hanging on by a thread). The only sorta decent long-distance trains are NSW's XPTs and Queensland's Tilt Train. A major factor in this is absolutely the fact that the rail operators have been too conservative to electrify anything outside of a major urban area - even without a dedicated high-speed rail corridor (which would be very nice either way) electrifying the existing Sydney-Melbourne corridor would do wonders. In this respect Queensland Rail has been the only operator with any balls since they managed to electrify a decent portion of the main line in Queensland at 25kv AC, as well as a lot of the coal systems in the interior of the state.
Which brings me to the maddening state of the Inland Rail project. It's still a very good idea but in my eyes if you're building a new railway in the 2020's electrification is a must. And, of course, they've defected this criticism by saying "but what about mUh doUblE sTacKs?!!" Newsflash, you can absolutely do double stack freight trains with electric traction.
And thus, we have the virgin Australian Inland Rail whining that they can't have both double stacks and electrification, vs the Chad Indian Railways with their absolute units of electric double-stacked freight trains.
This 'boomer' is concerned about the already strained electrical grid and increasingly more strained state of taxpayer funds that have been flying out of the country at a Bullet Train speed since the current Administration took office.
What good are electric cars and trains everywhere if you can't power them most days for fear of crashing the grid? Fix that first! (Like should have been done when they first started noticing the problem back when I was a spring chicken.)
@@veganconservative1109 why not build more nuclear power plants similar to the one built at Vogtle in GA? That's what France did, thye just spam built more nuclear power plants.
Plus, demand electric companies to update the grid, and build more towers. Most of them were built in the 1930s and all need to be replaced. just look what happened in California, which had massive wildfires all because PG&E never bothered to upgrade their electric grid infrastructure.
I would've really appreciated an example of the exorbitant spending on highway projects that you referenced in your "Cost" section
Great work. Thanks so much.
Very good video! The beautiful Michigan Central Station is being fully restored in Detroit. There was some talk about bringing trains back into it but I fear this is just another tragically missed opportunity and Amtrak in Detroit will continue to use the ugly "Amshack". Keep up the great work, my friend!
The problem with using the MC station is that to continue on to Pontiac would require either a backup move or switching ends. Which while not the biggest hassle, I doubt they'll do it.
@@hawkeyetherailfan Before they started to remodel MC several tracks that fed into the mainline at both ends along with butterfly structures. These have all been removed. What could be done is a smaller structure adjacent to the mainline tracks or perhaps one or two new tracks adjacent to the main line constructed.
@@louislamonte334 My idea was to build a line that curved northeast and went under Huntington Place then went down the middle of Jefferson and turned northwest onto the original Grand Trunk line.
@@hawkeyetherailfan Well, that would be a great possibility as well. Until Detroit and so many other places gets rid of the nearly endemic auto obsession all of this is going to be a really hard sell!
@@louislamonte334 What's interesting to note is that Detroit and the State are going to remove the I-375 freeway, the eastern end is at Jefferson, and convert into it into a pedestrian friendly boulevard. So while giving GM doorstep heavy rail service might not be feasible, a Detroit with less cars is.
1) Empire Line: there is already third rail electrification from NYC to Croton-Harmon. Amtrak is a low user of this line, with the MTA/Hudson Line being 90% of the trains (NYC to Poughkeepsie). Don't forget that there are still freight trains on this line (east side of the Hudson River. The west side tracks are only freight, passenger service having been abandoned.)
2) Caltrain electrification is costing $47 million per mile. Catenary alone is $12 million per mile. Signalling system upgrades, transformer/utility/electrical feeds, etc add up.
Wait so you're telling me that in the US you have miles of two-pronged tracks that aren't electrified? That's wild
Poughkeepsie to Rensselear is, last I checked, still onwed by CSX, but with special agreement for Amtrak to have use iof it during day, and Amtrak pays for track/signaling upgrades. Those are the ONLY tracks for freight out of New York city to the rest of the USA and trains have to travel to Castleton on Hudson (just south of Albany) to get first rail bridge across the Hudson to reach rest of continental USA. (The Alfred H Smith bridge is VERY impressive and very high and also part of east-west line from Boston to Albany (there is also the Pan Am line further north that crosses at Mechanicville and CP Rail that crosses at Fort Edward with the connection to Vermont at Whitehall).
As the only freight line out of New York City, it wouldn't be a good idea to prevent freight on it, unless CSX agrees to electrification and ditch double stacked containers. Or add 3rd track thatr isn't electrified for the slow lumbering freight.
The Manhanttan section of Empire connection is quite strange. 3rd rail doesn't even start at tunnel portal, but somewhere inside tunnel. The few dual model locos Amtrak has are 3rd rail and go very slowly on it, so I guess it made sense to run on diesel at highwer speed and limit the 3rd rail to shortest distance. Amtrak has no locos (yet) that can run on pantograph and diesel). The locos with 3rd rail were convenient when Penn station tracks were rebuilt a few summers ago, allowing empire corridor trains to return to Grand Central Station while Penn was "closed" to those trains.
With regards to "profits". The Biden infrasttucture bill (the first one) had some VERY interesting changes affecting Amtrak, one of them changing its mission from only operating routes with potential to become profitable to one of operating routes that serve people. The previous CEO was truly an airline guy: cut meal service on long distance train because in his head, New York to Atlanta shoudln't have meals :-) (and this despite Amtrak having just gotten brand spanking new viewliner dining cars). There were many good changes to Amtrak hidden in that law.
You're correct. Amtrak is in a 25 year lease with CSX
chicago to peroia eventually though to st louis would be a really good electric cordor. also would recommend the hawathin route as that already as a shit ton of demand. and honestly if we fully electrified the route taking advantage of the south shore line for the empire builder, we could have 4 to 8 trains a day between new york and chicago. thats alot of air traffic removed. and alot of local service to the comunitys along the route.
You mean the lake shore limited
Amtrak already uses the Saint Charles Airline which connects the ex-Illinois Central Gulf line with the Rick Island Line and the BNSF Line just west of Halsted Street. The airline bypassed Union Station by about 3 miles 8nto nearby Cicero. Trains from Carbondale/New Orleans back into or out of Union Station from Cicero.
The Michigan trains would need to do that also as Amtrak would continue using Union Station.
There are plans afoot to create a connection at Grand Crossing between the main line to the east coast and the CN line to New Orleans that would make use of the Air Line unnecessary and shave a lot of time off those schedules
I would love to be involved in such electrification projects once I graduate college.
Me too
YES
The European models of the Cities Sprinters electric locos Amtrak uses can handle both AC and 1.5 kV DC, I wouldn’t be surprised if they can be refitted to handle running on the South Shore.
There is absolutely no reason Albany to NYC should not be electrified. Probably one of the busiest corridors in the country and could switch the metro north trains over to overhead as well. Maybe a joint Amtrak-MTA project could be completed to get this done. This route also needs alot of upgrades which could increase speed across the route as well. Also would avoid the switchover most trains have going into Penn. Would help if every platform at penn had both third rail and overhead. This would also be a perfect corridor for HSR, probably should be the first corridor considered by Amtrak when updating imo.
They would probably have to buy the line from CSX first, but they are currently in a 25 year lease with CSX.
@@MatthewMello to my understanding they at least own portions of the line north of Poughkeepsie. Whatever they don’t own they are responsible for all of the maintenance. I live on the west side of the river and most of csx freight is brought down my side as opposed to the east side (2 freight on the east and upwards of 20 freight train on the west) It should still be doable for them to upgrade as-long as Amtrak foots the bill.
@@John-jg4wp All traffic in and out of Oak Point yard goes on the 701/704 to and from Selkirk. That is the only way there unless you come from CT, for example, the Springfield Line. But that is a pain in the ass move as the swtiches in Springfield go the wrong way. That is why CSO backs in and out of West Springfield Yard. Anyways, I am way off point.
anyone know the song starting at 4:55? Is it Vulfpeck?
Conclusion: (and I quote you)
"Just put up the goddamn wires!"
ALSO USE SOLAR CELLS ON THE ROOF TO HELP SUBSIDIZE THE SMALLEST STATIONS.
"The grid can be powered by any source and can be switched to clean energy power later or whenever is necessary."
THIS. This is why railways in some countries today are mostly immune to the ongoing oil and gas price surges. Since their systems are mostly electrified, they can choose whatever energy options are there at the table - coal, oil, gas, solar, wind, tidal, geothermal, nuclear, or all at once. Win win solution for everyone.
Unfortunately the US refuses to use anything but fossil fuels. Like please for the love of god at least try nuclear.
What about Biodiesel
@@pakboimsal8498 if you can afford to do so, then go. But even that is getting expensive. Electricity is still much cheaper.
I'd use the Pere Marquette line more often if I didn't have to drive 30 miles to the nearest station. Even if it was a smaller railroad that did it, I really wish a branch was added from Holland to Muskegon. Maybe even looping up to Grand Rapids to connect back with the Amtrak 'mainline'.
They might have to wrestle an agreement out of CSX, but other than that the only problem there would be the Grand River Swing Bridge. They'd have to stop right after Pere Marquette station to set the bridge so I don't know if they'd be very keen with that. Maybe they could convince Grand Haven to keep the bridge closed? I don't know...
If they had a bridge tender on duty at train time, and scheduled the bridge to close 30 minutes before the train was due, they could avoid most problems outside of weather, mechanical issues, and the bridge being struck by boats.
It would be really cool if the entire LA metropolitan area had a metro system
We’re slowly getting there
The LA Metro seems to like building new lines down former streetcar and interurban right of ways
It definitely should. It was a city built on streetcars. It should become a transit oriented city again.
This would be very important also given how the 2028 Olympics would be a pain in the ass if the city remains fully carcentric by then.
@@ianhomerpura8937 Same with Chicago there really needs to be more CTA L lines
@@pakboimsal8498 preferably new lines that will connect suburbs with each other. Not all people want to pass through downtown.
@@ianhomerpura8937 well the cta is doing that but with BRT instead of New L lines
Can I get a song ID at the intro? @0:15 or so
I love how you blithely announce that this or that isn't that hard. The shit is never, ever easy.
Care to elaborate?
because it really isnt. people did this in the late 1800s here. using technology that is a far cry from what you have today.
3:28 I'm pretty sure that CSX owns all the trackage on the empire corridor north of Poughkeepsie so electrifying the Empire Corridor would be harder. Amtrak only owns the West side connection in Manhattan.
I love your channel!
Can you do a video talking about some of the things other viewers and I can do to get some of these people to take some initiative? I don’t understand the issues well enough to vote on them. I love hearing about the problem but what’s the first steps to a solution?
Would you add third rail or overhead catenary from Croton to Albany? How about from Penn station to Spuyten Duyvil?
Amtrak doesn't own the tracks from Poughkeepsie and Schenectady, but has a long term lease from CSX. They would still need to coordinate with CSX. Sure it would be easier than on ROW they don't have a lease, but it's not as easy as on tracks they own. And the Metro-North area that is currently electrified with 3rd rail it is different 3rd rail from what Amtrak uses making it more complicated.
It's worth noting that the M8s also have a solution for the third rail disparity. (The M9s have the same type of third rail shoe as the M8s, though they can't use overhead wires.)
Curious for your opinion on the electrification style for the remainder of the Empire line.
Service between GCT and POK is currently 600v third rail. I can see how it's simpler in some respects to extend third rail further north as you can simply use existing MNR electric equipment further up the line, and you only have to electrify the balance of track.
At the same time, it's a shame that we would then be stuck needing to purchase 3rd rail specific equipment when everything else out of the NY area is running under over-head power.
I suppose we just build East Side Access to only be 3rd rail compatible, so we're going to be stuck with that for a good long while..
Use third rail for service in/out of Penn Station and overhead wires north of Croton-Harmon (the station in Croton-on-Hudson and the terminus for electric Hudson Line service).
No LIRR trains use overhead wires, nor do most Metro-North trains. NJT uses overhead wires, but NJT is a separate agency with its own problems (which includes the extent of electrification). As for ESA, the connection being used for that was built decades ago with certain types of rolling stock in mind (hence the decision to keep the C3s out) and would require either new tunnels or modification of existing ones, which also means interrupting subway service.
I’m a little late to this, but I live along the Hartford Line. I don’t know why it’s not electrified, or why the hell no one talks about it. I didn’t know it existed until 6 months ago and it’s amazing. I wholeheartedly think if they talked about it more and electrified it, it’d be huge for this area. Don’t they have some option that can exercise to build more M8s and then just use that on the line?
seeing double track with no catanary is wo weird to me as a german.