"Ignore those mirror signals". That's the kind of response I would expect from some Chinese $30 dongle SDR manufacturer not from RigExpert. What a disappointment. I have 6 RigExpert antenna analyzers and love them. I was going to buy one of these. Thanks for saving me from making that mistake. Mike KC3OSD
Thank you for releasing this video. RigExpert needs to be called out on this one. A $400 SDR should absolutely not act like a $30 one. Especially from a normally very reputable, premium brand.
Very good and detailed video and i can confirm the tests listed in the video. I bought this receiver with great anticipation to support a WebSDR project (PhantomSDR) that is currently under development. Unfortunately, the mirroring of the frequencies also surprised us. This video came out a few days after the purchase and shocked us, so I immediately sent the receiver back.
Thanks for warning us on this product ... you can clearly see at 9:55 that it just mirrors all signals towards DC ... its a bit like modifying an RTL SDR for sampling mode, the exact same happens, only here it mirrors at exactly 14.4 MHz ... so you need a narrow front end and use the highest possible sampling rate. 14 Bit is a joke for such a price. But I still wonder if your device is defective, because that is just super bad. I'd rather go with the RX888-Mk2, for under 200 €, which is real 16 Bit direct sampling RX that is brilliant and super clean on HF but less good on VHF/UHF because it uses the same tuner as the RTL-SDR for the higher frequencies, limiting its bandwidth and dynamic.
@@sammiller6631I can only compare the RX888 to the RSP1A and Airspy HF+ and HF-Discovery. The RSP1A is the most versatile in terms of frequency range, but when it comes to HF reception, the Airspy HF models outperform the RSP1A any time and the RX888 is maybe en par with the Airspy but can receive 0.05 to above 30MHz without any visible dynamic issues simultaneously, which is remarkable and shows the beauty of a true 16 Bit A/D front end. I just ordered the new Web-888 receiver... I think that will define a new standard for Web-SDRs.
Sometimes things just don't work out. I did not expect this from a company like RigExpert. This can surely be not good for their commercial image. Thanks for having the honesty to publish this video. 73' Ron - ON2RON
Such a shame. I was really hoping this would be good. I love my AA230 and had great hopes. RigExpert customer service is great too. I really appreciate you making this video, even though you usually wouldn't. Lets hope that they can improve it with an update.
@@TechMindsOfficial I do appreciate that you made this video and that you included the spectral data so that I could reach my own conclusions. I would prefer to not have to ignore things which are not there to begin with.
The aliasing is inevitable without the filtering, basic sampling theory. The HF port should only be used at 50Ms/s and above. That's why there is a 25 MHz LPF. At 50 MHz sampling the alias will be above 25 MHz, so prevent that band and all is hunky dory. In theory. Because there is only one ADC operating at HF, it is half the sampling rate, so if you wanted to use 8 MHz sampling you shroud have a 4 MHz low pass filter.. If there were I and Q inputs you could get a better result, but it appears at HF we have only I or only Q. So, run HF at max sample rate with the right software and I think you will find it much better. The FM broadcast in Airband is probably again a lack of band pass filtering. Basically there is none. That has to be supplied by the user. Pity the user wasn't told .What is wrong is the expectations of the user have not been appropriately managed. This does not mean it is not good, just it is not complete. It should have supporting software that only samples at 50 MHz or above for that HF port. Also, the fact there is only I or Q means the DSP software needs to know this. I suspect sdr++ is unaware and that's why the entire HF spectrum folds back on itself. That's software so fixable. This is very similar to what you would see with the Pluto or even at Ettus USRP. Without filters they are all a disaster, never mind how much they cost. In this case we could have a very good SDR but one that needs additional hardware to operate properly.
Thanks Mike, you always provide great analysis which I appreciate. And, as I did show in the video, increasing the sampling rate did definitely improve performance on HF. The problem here is, that most users, i.e folks that just want to plug an antenna into an SDR, and then the SDR into a computer, they just want to be able to use it, to listen to the frequencies it supports, without issues and extra fluffing and being specific with certain settings. The assumption that this is possible comes from the marketing that the Fobos is a General Purpose SDR. Rigexpert left a comment on here saying that I made mistakes in my video and that I misunderstood the topic of the Fobos...
If most people are plug and play then an sdr blog dongle would be more thier speed, for hundreds of dollars I expect better filtering and some bells and whistles others don't have. @@TechMindsOfficial
Please do not bring SDR++ into this. They implemented the source module themselves, they are entirely responsible for any fuck ups on that side. I offered to add support officially myself. I contacted them back in april to get a development unit. They said they'd think about it and then cut all communications. I was only made aware of these mediocre attempt at a source module when they finally released it to the public. They then tried to pull request their code to the official repo expecting me to merge it and then deal with user complaints without even having a device to test myself...
@@mikewillis1592 saving this explanation. Thank you! I’ve been using it with soapy via CubicSDR, SDRAngel, SigDigger and various other applications and haven’t focused on the HF part.
@@TechMindsOfficial did you happen to try any of the other windows based applications + HF mode? Just wondering if any have correct implementation by the RigExpert people (meaning coded natively by them)?
Thank you for sharing your results and above all thank you for your honesty. I have a couple of their analyzers and I’ve been very pleased with them. I would have definitely considered purchasing one of these if I were in the market for a new SDR at the $400 US price point. Based on the companies reputation for their analyzer, I would expect it to be better than the Hack RF, purchased roughly 5 years ago. I would totally understand if their first venture into the SDR world was a bit lackluster, particularly with the first couple versions of software. However, to be told by the company to ignore those other signals, that shouldn’t be there is a terrible answer, especially when you consider their customer base is technical people, particularly those familiar with RF. Let’s hope they make things right and the support personnel you spoke with does not represent the views of the company.
I really need to hook it up to something like you have on your end. I for sure see the similar result in the HF band at least in terms of mirroring. Haven’t paid close enough attention (yet) to know if there’s transmissions that shouldn’t be there. For the other bands, I’ll try to spend more time with it but my location is at a very low point with hills and trees all around - so I’m likely not getting the overloading and high power from towers direct into the front end. I also made a small modification to soapy so I could use it with CubicSDR and SigDigger. Totally understand your point in sharing the video and it was a good one.
From the block diagram, it looks like direct sampling doesn't use the LNA (that's only for the double conversion superhet input path). You could ask that they include switchable filters, but for such an incredibly broadband device, it's just not reasonable for them to do so. It's quite fair to expect the user to enforce selectivity in front of a crazy wide-band device like this. You really should have done a test with a 10- and a 20-dB attenuator in front of it just to see if you can knock down whatever very high power local signal is overloading the front-end and driving it into nonlinear behavior.
Thanks for the review. Your experience is exactly the same as mine. I emailed them about my issues, but they didn't bother to respond. Maybe they sensed that I wouldn't buy the "ignore mirror signals" advice.
High performance SDR receiver designer here. I have an hypothesis of what may be going on. By looking at the schematic of this device it's very clear what the intentions of the designers are. This is a super sensitive receiver. Less than 1dB Noise Figure! That's as good as a receiver can be. The price you pay when designing for maximum sensitivity is lackluster performance when in an RF crowded area. But maybe that was the product they wanted to manufacture and the HAM marketing is just a disguise. Why would an Ukranian company would want to manufacture a unit that's best fitted for Electronic Warfare Signal Intelligence in a battlefield with no FM stations nearby as opposed to HAM radio? Well maybe this way the Russians don't drop a bomb on RigExpert's factory. Which incidentally it's on their website, so it would be a very simple things for them. Ukranian Armed Forces now have a super capable radio to detect jammers and drone data links! But as a HAM, please don't buy it 😂
Given a response from RigExpert to simply ignore the mirror signals, this video needed to be made. If this was a cheap SDR, that *might* be acceptable - although even though you would have zero confidence as to what frequency signal was actually at... so for this much more expensive (and from a usually reputable firm), that is just not acceptable at all. I don't see an issue with negative videos, as long as they are honest, and leaving room for user error as you have done here... i.e. if you find out it is a mistake on your part, you can add a pinned description, and a followup video... and anyone else facing the same problem would probably hit this video first anyway. I was interested in this due to the wide frequency range and brand, but not for that price, and even then, I would want to know this issue is resolved.
Thank you for your comment. It was most certainly a difficult video to publish... After making this video I have since found quite a few forum posts and test reports that other users have also observed. I always try and test/review products in a video before viewing anyone else's reports or testing. That way it's not biased, it's my personal experience. Thanks
9:57 all the frequencies are perfectly mirrored around the center. I think that's a software problem and not overload. Pity that they don't take this serious.
I presented the Fobos SDR for the 2024 SDRA, a video on their (SDR-Academy) TH-cam channel should be forthcoming. When doing the right settings (BW especially) when working on the HF channels I did not have any issues at all. It does start to show mirrors of signals when using smaller BW setting than the 25 MHz. which leads me to assume the software implementation is still not up to par with the way this specific hardware is designed. But it is most certainly NOT a hardware or even a design issue. Just my grain of salt. PE3ES/F4VTQ, Erwin, 73.
Hi there, thanks for the comment and information. I also observed HF improved with certain BW settings, as shown in my video, but don't you think that having no hardware RF/IF gain control on HF is a design flaw? I would also be interested to know what type of antennas you was using to perform your tests. As mentioned in my video another user I spoke to saw less of an issue with far smaller and inefficient indoor antennas.
@@TechMindsOfficial I think it is a design choice, not a flaw. The system might be more geared to VHF as you state somewhere in your video if I remember correctly. RigExpert never tells you it is the best HF solution out there and the areas of interest they show in their documentation hint at VHF till the max of 6 GHz of the RF Spectrum.
Thanks for this video. I was seriously considering this as an upgrade to my RSPDx/RSPDuo boxes but the image issue is definately a deal breaker especially at this price point! Keep the great videos coming! 73 de VE4ACE
@@TechMindsOfficial or what it should look like. There may be deltas between those images and the version you have. Also and here is the important thing, if it has an FCC reference number on it, you should be able to access the FCC reports for that device.
May I ask which SDR was it that you used for comparison? I recently acquired my first SDR (an RTL-SDR v4), and I was disappointed to see the same sort of issues you experienced with the Fobos. So, I was wondering how much it would cost to get something with a bit better performance, but without spending a fortune.
To have a RX without a lot of spurious signals requires very complex RF and IF stages with a lot of shielding & filtering. These Dongles are great, and cheap, but will never achieve the kind of performance that a ICOM can deliver. Edit - I should also add that I have a SDRPlay RSPdx and it is thoughtfully designed with just enough filtering to really make a difference without getting to ICOM prices. It has MW, FM and DAB filtering to prevent the really strong signals from bleeding into the HF and VHF bands.
@@stevehageman6785 Yeah, I have an IC-7200 that I use when working HF. It's just not in the budget to upgrade to one of the newer rigs with the spectrum scope and all the fancy tech.
@@notsure1274 I'm sure I got what I paid for with the RTL-SDR. But something a little better that doesn't break the bank, would be nice. Thanks for the recommendation.
Kind of gutted I really fancied one of these build quality looks amazing want to receive hrpt at 1.7mhz and s band at around 2.2mhz the only thing putting me off was no SatDump support but you can use any sdr software to make a baseband recording then run it through SatDump thanks for making the video hope Rig expert get it together and it is just teething problems with a new product. May be a mark ii version will come along sooner rather than later.
Thanks for the video and saving me just over £400. I was hoping that the Fobos was going to be my next SDR but the apparent lack of any filtering at this price range is a deal breaker. Are there any other alternative SDR's that do have adequate filtering and can cover 30MHz or higher in bandwidth? I did have the original RX888 but wasn't impressed with that, not sure if the MK2 is any better.
I’m confused. You have lots of products that don’t work properly and you don’t make a video about them. You then go on to make a video about a product that doesn’t work properly. 🤷♂️
I can see how that can sound confusing to viewers that don't know me or follow my channel, but as I said at the start of the video I had already shared in my community and on X that I had received this product. I made those posts before testing it and making the review video. So I was obligated to provide my results to my viewers. Hope that makes sense now sir.
Looks like a rubbish SDR receiver design. This is a good video that will save people a lot of money and disappointment ! I use a nanoVNA to analyse my antennas and other circuits. The NanoVNA is much more useful and versatile than a RigExpert antenna analyser.
I think you'll have to make a new video about this receiver soon. Because you haven't fully grasped the topic and made a number of mistakes, thus clearly underestimating Fobos's characteristics. Try using the uSDR software. You will be surprised.
It's being sold as a "General Software Defined Radio"... Many people will see that advertising statement as a product which will be an ALL in one SDR, and they will not need any other SDR because of the frequency coverage. Granted, the specifications are great on this SDR, and used with the correct "External Filters" and "Attenuators" it could perform okay. But as a General SDR, no way, users want more for the price of this. Please also list the mistakes I made and detail more about the topic I did not grasp. Your marketing told me to "Ignore the mirror signals"..... Not good.. uSDR is NOT user friendly, it's too complicated for the average user.
How on Earth can you 'ignore' the intermodulation products if you don't know whether they are in-band or not? It sounds as though Rig Expert don't give a tinker's cuss about their customers. Thanks for the warning in this video. I'll not be buying any of their products, and shall warn others to watch your video before wasting their money.
Sadly what we have here is a reviewer failure. The SDR is is working perfectly as expected under the settings that were used. Other SDRs would also show the same performance under these settings. As other posters mentioned you WILL get these image signals if you dont low pass filter at half the sampling rate, which was repeatedly called "bandwidth" in this review, and it is wrong to call this out as a device defect. So you can call off the pitchfork and torch mob invasion of RigExpert, the witch hunt is cancelled, lol! 73 de G0AFV
I'd also like to add, that I did show in the video that if the "Sample Rate" is increased that some of the mirror signals do not appear. I used the term "bandwidth" instead of "sampling rate" because for those not so much tech savy, with sdr, will makes it easier to understand. Videos are viewed by viewers with many levels of knowledge, so sometimes it needs to be watered down. I dont think that this was a "Pitchfork" event towards RigExpert. I highly respect them for their Antenna Analyzers. What I personally don't like is an over priced SDR being sold as a "General purpose SDR" that performs how this SDR does. This is a specialized SDR and needs to be used in that way. I'm sick of comments on this video now, nothing I showed in this video was a lie, it was live demos, with all settings clearly shown. Even the antennas that I used was shown. I am not the only one to have spoken out about this SDR. So, MR BJ, please go and spend £500 on this SDR, and then report back that you are over the moon with it and it's everything you ever wanted in an SDR.
Many of the others popular ones have variable filters that follow the sample rate/bandwidth. So just lowering it and things would just work. In that case it's missing that filter. The device is supposed to be a full reciver frontend, not just a fancy ADC dev-board.
If RigExpert was a car manufacturer: My new car's engine makes a terrible noise at highway speeds. RigExpert: Your engine is working as designed. Ignore the noise.
What a shame for such a company generally in high regard. As you will know, they're based in Ukraine so they need our support, but the products need to work. I have a Rig Expert stick pro and it's superb.
I could not even see spending nearly $500 on an SDR receiver when the British company SDRPlay has great receivers starting at just over $100. On the otherhand, it does not make sense that RigExpert would design a receiver having the issues yours has especially at its price unless they are eating LSD along with their eggs for breakfast. It must be a faulty unit is my bet & even if given to me I'd be contacting the company.
@@TechMindsOfficial hmmm, apparently they do eat LSD with their eggs during breakfast. I hope they don't want to have high sales. By the way. You had indicated wanting to build an efficient Mag Loop transmit antenna, likely for a single band, is this still under consideration or have I missed it as the credits rolled too?
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What SDRplay product gives you more than 10 MHz of bandwidth? Their own crappy proprietary unsafe (needs root) "API" limits the bandwidth to 10 MHz when cheap Chinese RSP1 "clones" are capable of 14 MHz at 8 bits.
Why would you really want that much spectrum being shown, I'd have no interest in having it. My bet is aside from an initial gewiz isn't this neat one would narrow the display to bands of interest such as those that were active at the given time of the day. Each to their own, but roughly $500 for what was shown here would have me demanding my money back or talking to a representative that has an engineering background & knows enough to understand what was conveyed is just rubbish.
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@@migalito1955 If you have to ask that, you're clearly not the intended user. I'm interested in capturing the airband and ideally the 2m band all at once -- that's 28 MHz without any extra, and it needs at least a 12b ADC to prevent clipping with strong signals.
These toy receivers cannot compete with a "real" receivers that have tuned front ends. Seems to be more for something you can stick in your computer bag side pocket to have a receiver along.
@@marsgal42 I was looking at self contained units with built-in display. (Malachite like) I will have to look into one of these because the specs are so good. And it doesn't cost three grand!
If it needs Zadig, its som kind of crap rtlsdr and is a no buy for me.
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So you discount a product just because the operating system you're using has a bad way of dealing with drivers? You don't need this Zadig magic on Linux.
"Ignore those mirror signals". That's the kind of response I would expect from some Chinese $30 dongle SDR manufacturer not from RigExpert. What a disappointment. I have 6 RigExpert antenna analyzers and love them. I was going to buy one of these. Thanks for saving me from making that mistake. Mike KC3OSD
What models do you recommend by them? This wouuld be my first SDR. Thanks.
@@mscirdo you need RX/TX or just RX?
@@technicianofgod Sorry I didn't mention that, rx only. Thanks!
@@mscir SDRPlay are top tier SDR receivers. SDRPlay RSP1B is a great entry level SDR.
Thank you for releasing this video. RigExpert needs to be called out on this one. A $400 SDR should absolutely not act like a $30 one. Especially from a normally very reputable, premium brand.
I'm glad you made this video, honesty is so valuable for us, good, bad or ugly. Thank you.
thank you for your informative video. this make me reconsider buying the fobos and stay with my sdrplay.
Very good and detailed video and i can confirm the tests listed in the video.
I bought this receiver with great anticipation to support a WebSDR project (PhantomSDR) that is currently under development. Unfortunately, the mirroring of the frequencies also surprised us. This video came out a few days after the purchase and shocked us, so I immediately sent the receiver back.
Thanks for warning us on this product ... you can clearly see at 9:55 that it just mirrors all signals towards DC ... its a bit like modifying an RTL SDR for sampling mode, the exact same happens, only here it mirrors at exactly 14.4 MHz ... so you need a narrow front end and use the highest possible sampling rate. 14 Bit is a joke for such a price. But I still wonder if your device is defective, because that is just super bad.
I'd rather go with the RX888-Mk2, for under 200 €, which is real 16 Bit direct sampling RX that is brilliant and super clean on HF but less good on VHF/UHF because it uses the same tuner as the RTL-SDR for the higher frequencies, limiting its bandwidth and dynamic.
How does the RX888-Mk2 compare to the SDRplay RSP1b or RSPdx?
@@sammiller6631I can only compare the RX888 to the RSP1A and Airspy HF+ and HF-Discovery.
The RSP1A is the most versatile in terms of frequency range, but when it comes to HF reception, the Airspy HF models outperform the RSP1A any time and the RX888 is maybe en par with the Airspy but can receive 0.05 to above 30MHz without any visible dynamic issues simultaneously, which is remarkable and shows the beauty of a true 16 Bit A/D front end.
I just ordered the new Web-888 receiver... I think that will define a new standard for Web-SDRs.
I dont know why you say 14 bits is a joke. The BladeRF and Ettus B2xx series are 12-bit, and highly regarded.
Maybe you should create a second channel where you review the junk devices. Name it "Tech Mindless"?
Brilliant
Or Mindless Tech
Sometimes things just don't work out. I did not expect this from a company like RigExpert. This can surely be not good for their commercial image. Thanks for having the honesty to publish this video. 73' Ron - ON2RON
9:53 You can clearly see it mirrored from the middle. Crazy.
Hi Mat, very honest review ! If every reviewer was that honest and not just like the free products. 73 Phil ON4VP
The SDR-Radio email list has a thread discussing very similar issues at the moment.
What a blunt comment by RigExpert. Thank you for this video, I was about to pull the trigger on one.
I'm amazed that RIg Expert said to "ignore the mirror images" - I wonder if Thomas K4SWL has tried this one?
Such a shame. I was really hoping this would be good. I love my AA230 and had great hopes. RigExpert customer service is great too. I really appreciate you making this video, even though you usually wouldn't. Lets hope that they can improve it with an update.
I'd be interested in options for hooking up via usb-c and how well they work.
Yeh, I was extremely surprised. I absolutely hated making this video, but I just didn't have a choice really.
@@TechMindsOfficial I do appreciate that you made this video and that you included the spectral data so that I could reach my own conclusions. I would prefer to not have to ignore things which are not there to begin with.
Uh-loo-mih-num. Not Al-you-mih-knee-umm
@@attribute-4677 Luminum.
Thank you for this. My favorite channel.
Wow, thank you!
The aliasing is inevitable without the filtering, basic sampling theory. The HF port should only be used at 50Ms/s and above. That's why there is a 25 MHz LPF. At 50 MHz sampling the alias will be above 25 MHz, so prevent that band and all is hunky dory. In theory. Because there is only one ADC operating at HF, it is half the sampling rate, so if you wanted to use 8 MHz sampling you shroud have a 4 MHz low pass filter.. If there were I and Q inputs you could get a better result, but it appears at HF we have only I or only Q. So, run HF at max sample rate with the right software and I think you will find it much better.
The FM broadcast in Airband is probably again a lack of band pass filtering. Basically there is none. That has to be supplied by the user. Pity the user wasn't told .What is wrong is the expectations of the user have not been appropriately managed.
This does not mean it is not good, just it is not complete. It should have supporting software that only samples at 50 MHz or above for that HF port. Also, the fact there is only I or Q means the DSP software needs to know this. I suspect sdr++ is unaware and that's why the entire HF spectrum folds back on itself. That's software so fixable.
This is very similar to what you would see with the Pluto or even at Ettus USRP. Without filters they are all a disaster, never mind how much they cost. In this case we could have a very good SDR but one that needs additional hardware to operate properly.
Thanks Mike, you always provide great analysis which I appreciate. And, as I did show in the video, increasing the sampling rate did definitely improve performance on HF. The problem here is, that most users, i.e folks that just want to plug an antenna into an SDR, and then the SDR into a computer, they just want to be able to use it, to listen to the frequencies it supports, without issues and extra fluffing and being specific with certain settings. The assumption that this is possible comes from the marketing that the Fobos is a General Purpose SDR. Rigexpert left a comment on here saying that I made mistakes in my video and that I misunderstood the topic of the Fobos...
If most people are plug and play then an sdr blog dongle would be more thier speed, for hundreds of dollars I expect better filtering and some bells and whistles others don't have. @@TechMindsOfficial
Please do not bring SDR++ into this. They implemented the source module themselves, they are entirely responsible for any fuck ups on that side.
I offered to add support officially myself. I contacted them back in april to get a development unit. They said they'd think about it and then cut all communications. I was only made aware of these mediocre attempt at a source module when they finally released it to the public. They then tried to pull request their code to the official repo expecting me to merge it and then deal with user complaints without even having a device to test myself...
@@mikewillis1592 saving this explanation. Thank you! I’ve been using it with soapy via CubicSDR, SDRAngel, SigDigger and various other applications and haven’t focused on the HF part.
@@TechMindsOfficial did you happen to try any of the other windows based applications + HF mode? Just wondering if any have correct implementation by the RigExpert people (meaning coded natively by them)?
Thanks for the warning Matt. One easy way to get a mirrored spectrum is if the I or Q data stream has been zeroed.
Thank you for sharing your results and above all thank you for your honesty. I have a couple of their analyzers and I’ve been very pleased with them. I would have definitely considered purchasing one of these if I were in the market for a new SDR at the $400 US price point. Based on the companies reputation for their analyzer, I would expect it to be better than the Hack RF, purchased roughly 5 years ago.
I would totally understand if their first venture into the SDR world was a bit lackluster, particularly with the first couple versions of software. However, to be told by the company to ignore those other signals, that shouldn’t be there is a terrible answer, especially when you consider their customer base is technical people, particularly those familiar with RF.
Let’s hope they make things right and the support personnel you spoke with does not represent the views of the company.
I really need to hook it up to something like you have on your end. I for sure see the similar result in the HF band at least in terms of mirroring. Haven’t paid close enough attention (yet) to know if there’s transmissions that shouldn’t be there. For the other bands, I’ll try to spend more time with it but my location is at a very low point with hills and trees all around - so I’m likely not getting the overloading and high power from towers direct into the front end. I also made a small modification to soapy so I could use it with CubicSDR and SigDigger. Totally understand your point in sharing the video and it was a good one.
@@СвятовитСоляник-л1б I think I found your explanation or an explanation, saving it now.
From the block diagram, it looks like direct sampling doesn't use the LNA (that's only for the double conversion superhet input path). You could ask that they include switchable filters, but for such an incredibly broadband device, it's just not reasonable for them to do so. It's quite fair to expect the user to enforce selectivity in front of a crazy wide-band device like this. You really should have done a test with a 10- and a 20-dB attenuator in front of it just to see if you can knock down whatever very high power local signal is overloading the front-end and driving it into nonlinear behavior.
Thanks for the review. Your experience is exactly the same as mine. I emailed them about my issues, but they didn't bother to respond. Maybe they sensed that I wouldn't buy the "ignore mirror signals" advice.
High performance SDR receiver designer here. I have an hypothesis of what may be going on.
By looking at the schematic of this device it's very clear what the intentions of the designers are.
This is a super sensitive receiver. Less than 1dB Noise Figure! That's as good as a receiver can be. The price you pay when designing for maximum sensitivity is lackluster performance when in an RF crowded area. But maybe that was the product they wanted to manufacture and the HAM marketing is just a disguise.
Why would an Ukranian company would want to manufacture a unit that's best fitted for Electronic Warfare Signal Intelligence in a battlefield with no FM stations nearby as opposed to HAM radio?
Well maybe this way the Russians don't drop a bomb on RigExpert's factory. Which incidentally it's on their website, so it would be a very simple things for them.
Ukranian Armed Forces now have a super capable radio to detect jammers and drone data links!
But as a HAM, please don't buy it 😂
You actually hit the nail on the head, as they say. I have some more information to share soon.
@@TechMindsOfficiallooking forward to hearing those news!
Given a response from RigExpert to simply ignore the mirror signals, this video needed to be made. If this was a cheap SDR, that *might* be acceptable - although even though you would have zero confidence as to what frequency signal was actually at... so for this much more expensive (and from a usually reputable firm), that is just not acceptable at all. I don't see an issue with negative videos, as long as they are honest, and leaving room for user error as you have done here... i.e. if you find out it is a mistake on your part, you can add a pinned description, and a followup video... and anyone else facing the same problem would probably hit this video first anyway. I was interested in this due to the wide frequency range and brand, but not for that price, and even then, I would want to know this issue is resolved.
Thank you for your comment. It was most certainly a difficult video to publish... After making this video I have since found quite a few forum posts and test reports that other users have also observed. I always try and test/review products in a video before viewing anyone else's reports or testing. That way it's not biased, it's my personal experience. Thanks
9:57 all the frequencies are perfectly mirrored around the center. I think that's a software problem and not overload. Pity that they don't take this serious.
ye i also "ignoring mirror signals" but on an cheap rtl-sdr, this is absurd
I presented the Fobos SDR for the 2024 SDRA, a video on their (SDR-Academy) TH-cam channel should be forthcoming. When doing the right settings (BW especially) when working on the HF channels I did not have any issues at all. It does start to show mirrors of signals when using smaller BW setting than the 25 MHz. which leads me to assume the software implementation is still not up to par with the way this specific hardware is designed. But it is most certainly NOT a hardware or even a design issue. Just my grain of salt. PE3ES/F4VTQ, Erwin, 73.
Hi there, thanks for the comment and information. I also observed HF improved with certain BW settings, as shown in my video, but don't you think that having no hardware RF/IF gain control on HF is a design flaw? I would also be interested to know what type of antennas you was using to perform your tests. As mentioned in my video another user I spoke to saw less of an issue with far smaller and inefficient indoor antennas.
@@TechMindsOfficial I think it is a design choice, not a flaw. The system might be more geared to VHF as you state somewhere in your video if I remember correctly. RigExpert never tells you it is the best HF solution out there and the areas of interest they show in their documentation hint at VHF till the max of 6 GHz of the RF Spectrum.
My Rick Expert 500 stick is great.
I have the SDR Play Duo and some
other V3 and V4 SDR Stiks. Thanks 😊
I had the same issues with my Fobos. Mirror signals etc
Good video. Just curious, how do you afford all these new radios?
Working 15 hours a day making videos for you to enjoy for free. :-)
@@TechMindsOfficial Fair enough. And thank you!
Excellent video. Thank you ! And oh dear...
If you should ignore the mirror signals, I will ignore this sdr ... my trusty RX-888 does the job a lot better for a third of the price.
Merci beaucoup pour ton retour sur ce produit, je vais attendre le airspy ranger 😊
Thanks for this video. I was seriously considering this as an upgrade to my RSPDx/RSPDuo boxes but the image issue is definately a deal breaker especially at this price point! Keep the great videos coming! 73 de VE4ACE
You are welcome!
ignoring mirror signals lol its like being a psychic in a grave yard trying to speak to one spirit lol.
No problem for me - the only spirit I hear is the vodka
Just like my ex, I must have a tight front end.
Can you please let us know what reference SDR you were using in comparison with fobos when looking at the aliasing issue you were reporting?
SDRPlay RSPdx R2.
@@TechMindsOfficial Thanks! I have that one as well.
We need a proper HF SDR, something that gets us a quick way to see what is open on the HF ham bands.
I guess you're prohibited from opening the devices on camera, because I know I would like to see the innerds.
No not prohibited, just not needed as the "Spec sheet" on the rig expert website has HD photos of what the board looks like. Cheers
@@TechMindsOfficial or what it should look like. There may be deltas between those images and the version you have. Also and here is the important thing, if it has an FCC reference number on it, you should be able to access the FCC reports for that device.
thanks...
I bought it and still trying to make it work with Soapy
May I ask which SDR was it that you used for comparison? I recently acquired my first SDR (an RTL-SDR v4), and I was disappointed to see the same sort of issues you experienced with the Fobos. So, I was wondering how much it would cost to get something with a bit better performance, but without spending a fortune.
+1 This would be nice to know.
To have a RX without a lot of spurious signals requires very complex RF and IF stages with a lot of shielding & filtering. These Dongles are great, and cheap, but will never achieve the kind of performance that a ICOM can deliver. Edit - I should also add that I have a SDRPlay RSPdx and it is thoughtfully designed with just enough filtering to really make a difference without getting to ICOM prices. It has MW, FM and DAB filtering to prevent the really strong signals from bleeding into the HF and VHF bands.
SDRplay receivers start at around $120 and are great for the price and don’t have any mirroring issues.
@@stevehageman6785 Yeah, I have an IC-7200 that I use when working HF. It's just not in the budget to upgrade to one of the newer rigs with the spectrum scope and all the fancy tech.
@@notsure1274 I'm sure I got what I paid for with the RTL-SDR. But something a little better that doesn't break the bank, would be nice. Thanks for the recommendation.
Sorry! Which signals should I ignore....appaling response!!
Maybe they made the new eton e1 flop as well
'ignore the minor signals'?
Lazy response... :/
Kind of gutted I really fancied one of these build quality looks amazing want to receive hrpt at 1.7mhz and s band at around 2.2mhz the only thing putting me off was no SatDump support but you can use any sdr software to make a baseband recording then run it through SatDump thanks for making the video hope Rig expert get it together and it is just teething problems with a new product. May be a mark ii version will come along sooner rather than later.
Thanks for the video and saving me just over £400.
I was hoping that the Fobos was going to be my next SDR but the apparent lack of any filtering at this price range is a deal breaker.
Are there any other alternative SDR's that do have adequate filtering and can cover 30MHz or higher in bandwidth?
I did have the original RX888 but wasn't impressed with that, not sure if the MK2 is any better.
thanks Matt your right you needed to do this video.
So Airspy HF+ discovery is still the best for HF reception?
Yup. Or the SDRPlay is a good one as well.
£430?! No, you’re ok thanks.
“Ignore the mirror signals…..”
For that, I’ll ignore the entire device. 🤣
I think the actual price is 4.29 not 429.95 What I just watched in no way this SDR is actually worth that much.
Does it have sufficient bandwidth to receive and decode dvb T2 and dvb s2 signals( using LNB and parabolic antenna)?
Thanks for the Warning.
So is the RX888 better than this unit then?
A chocolate teapot!
Publish a list with devices and the comment: tested with link to video, TBT (To B Tested), Disappointed test not published.
Bonjour,
Vous préférez le kiwi sdr V2 à ce modèle ?
I’m confused. You have lots of products that don’t work properly and you don’t make a video about them.
You then go on to make a video about a product that doesn’t work properly. 🤷♂️
I can see how that can sound confusing to viewers that don't know me or follow my channel, but as I said at the start of the video I had already shared in my community and on X that I had received this product. I made those posts before testing it and making the review video. So I was obligated to provide my results to my viewers. Hope that makes sense now sir.
@@TechMindsOfficial Ah, that makes more sense. :)
I was interested in this unit but I think I will just IGNORE it for now.
Looks like a rubbish SDR receiver design. This is a good video that will save people a lot of money and disappointment ! I use a nanoVNA to analyse my antennas and other circuits. The NanoVNA is much more useful and versatile than a RigExpert antenna analyser.
I think you'll have to make a new video about this receiver soon. Because you haven't fully grasped the topic and made a number of mistakes, thus clearly underestimating Fobos's characteristics. Try using the uSDR software. You will be surprised.
It's being sold as a "General Software Defined Radio"... Many people will see that advertising statement as a product which will be an ALL in one SDR, and they will not need any other SDR because of the frequency coverage. Granted, the specifications are great on this SDR, and used with the correct "External Filters" and "Attenuators" it could perform okay. But as a General SDR, no way, users want more for the price of this. Please also list the mistakes I made and detail more about the topic I did not grasp. Your marketing told me to "Ignore the mirror signals"..... Not good.. uSDR is NOT user friendly, it's too complicated for the average user.
Please make a video of the things you wouldnt make a video of. Help us from making a serious mistake.
How on Earth can you 'ignore' the intermodulation products if you don't know whether they are in-band or not? It sounds as though Rig Expert don't give a tinker's cuss about their customers. Thanks for the warning in this video. I'll not be buying any of their products, and shall warn others to watch your video before wasting their money.
Phobos means Fear IIRC.
Sadly what we have here is a reviewer failure.
The SDR is is working perfectly as expected under the settings that were used. Other SDRs would also show the same performance under these settings.
As other posters mentioned you WILL get these image signals if you dont low pass filter at half the sampling rate, which was repeatedly called "bandwidth" in this review, and it is wrong to call this out as a device defect.
So you can call off the pitchfork and torch mob invasion of RigExpert, the witch hunt is cancelled, lol!
73 de G0AFV
Do you own one?
I'd also like to add, that I did show in the video that if the "Sample Rate" is increased that some of the mirror signals do not appear. I used the term "bandwidth" instead of "sampling rate" because for those not so much tech savy, with sdr, will makes it easier to understand. Videos are viewed by viewers with many levels of knowledge, so sometimes it needs to be watered down. I dont think that this was a "Pitchfork" event towards RigExpert. I highly respect them for their Antenna Analyzers. What I personally don't like is an over priced SDR being sold as a "General purpose SDR" that performs how this SDR does. This is a specialized SDR and needs to be used in that way. I'm sick of comments on this video now, nothing I showed in this video was a lie, it was live demos, with all settings clearly shown. Even the antennas that I used was shown. I am not the only one to have spoken out about this SDR. So, MR BJ, please go and spend £500 on this SDR, and then report back that you are over the moon with it and it's everything you ever wanted in an SDR.
Many of the others popular ones have variable filters that follow the sample rate/bandwidth.
So just lowering it and things would just work. In that case it's missing that filter.
The device is supposed to be a full reciver frontend, not just a fancy ADC dev-board.
No sound then or is that extra £££
Yes, ignore the problems. They will magically fix themselves or just go away. 🤦♂️
$400...too hot😂
If RigExpert was a car manufacturer: My new car's engine makes a terrible noise at highway speeds. RigExpert: Your engine is working as designed. Ignore the noise.
It is a shame because it makes such good antenna analyzers. Hopefully they're able to issue a patch via a software update.
@@randyab9go188 Right. I use a Stick 230 frequently. Great product. This has to be an anomaly. We'll see. Their response is concerning, though.
What a shame for such a company generally in high regard. As you will know, they're based in Ukraine so they need our support, but the products need to work. I have a Rig Expert stick pro and it's superb.
I could not even see spending nearly $500 on an SDR receiver when the British company SDRPlay has great receivers starting at just over $100.
On the otherhand, it does not make sense that RigExpert would design a receiver having the issues yours has especially at its price unless they are eating LSD along with their eggs for breakfast. It must be a faulty unit is my bet & even if given to me I'd be contacting the company.
As I said in the video, I contacted them and they confirmed my unit was working as designed….
@@TechMindsOfficial hmmm, apparently they do eat LSD with their eggs during breakfast. I hope they don't want to have high sales.
By the way. You had indicated wanting to build an efficient Mag Loop transmit antenna, likely for a single band, is this still under consideration or have I missed it as the credits rolled too?
What SDRplay product gives you more than 10 MHz of bandwidth? Their own crappy proprietary unsafe (needs root) "API" limits the bandwidth to 10 MHz when cheap Chinese RSP1 "clones" are capable of 14 MHz at 8 bits.
Why would you really want that much spectrum being shown, I'd have no interest in having it. My bet is aside from an initial gewiz isn't this neat one would narrow the display to bands of interest such as those that were active at the given time of the day.
Each to their own, but roughly $500 for what was shown here would have me demanding my money back or talking to a representative that has an engineering background & knows enough to understand what was conveyed is just rubbish.
@@migalito1955 If you have to ask that, you're clearly not the intended user. I'm interested in capturing the airband and ideally the 2m band all at once -- that's 28 MHz without any extra, and it needs at least a 12b ADC to prevent clipping with strong signals.
These toy receivers cannot compete with a "real" receivers that have tuned front ends. Seems to be more for something you can stick in your computer bag side pocket to have a receiver along.
Have you ever used one? My main general coverage receiver is an Airspy HF+ Discovery. It's an excellent radio. For the price it's spectacular.
@@marsgal42 I was looking at self contained units with built-in display. (Malachite like) I will have to look into one of these because the specs are so good. And it doesn't cost three grand!
I have plenty of sub 300$ SDRs that outperform my Kenwood TS-850S. The issue here is there is a flaw in the design.
If it needs Zadig, its som kind of crap rtlsdr and is a no buy for me.
So you discount a product just because the operating system you're using has a bad way of dealing with drivers? You don't need this Zadig magic on Linux.
Thats true about linux but i have still not used any good product that needed Zadig yet
That's disappointing. A cheap RTL-SDR with an upconverter works much better.
a piece of junk for 500 Euro's. Thx for the video.
A shame. I have a RigExpert antenna analyzer and it performs exactly as specified. It's slick. This, on the other hand... 💩
Well that’s depressing
Nope
its a rtl clone.
Fobos = FUBAR
WOW!! ignore them!! Looks like I am going to stick with my rtl-sdr dongles ,, they work no mirror signals to ignore! great info!
Ignore those mirrors WTF 🥸