Where on Earth is Uz? • Wisdom E6
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ส.ค. 2024
- In this episode, Tim and Jon continue their discussion on Job. How exactly does Job fit in with the other wisdom book of the Bible? It’s kind of a weird book. Job takes place in Uz, a non-Israelite town, and it features non-Israelite people. It seems out of place, but it’s also a book that other biblical authors refer to throughout Scripture. We have to wonder about the differences between Job and the other books of the Bible. Is Job a literal account, or is it a wisdom parable that is intentionally fiction?
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Defender Instrumental by TENTS
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Flooded Meadows by Unwritten Stories
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TH-cam wants money probably
😳
Thank you for this. The ads are excessive on this.
@@kirkpatrickg191All of you leave TH-cam and use NewPipe.
Then you can see videos without any ads.
I pay for TH-cam Red and it's worth it. Considering this Podcast alone is worth that and more. I thank God for the work Tim and John have done and are doing. They compliment one another well.
Only Christian podcast where you'll hear "The Satan really makes a good point!" Lol this was so great you guys. It has been such a blessing to find y'all and now I can't stop learning about my God and my savior. Thanks guys! God bless!
The land of UZ is a relative of Esau in Genesis 36. vs28 ... UZ was a son of Dishan. Dishan was a son of Seir the Horite. Now the man Job could be Jobab vs 33. If Job was a King of Edom then the book of his life event shows he was blessed and actually tested. Eliphaz was also a chief in verses 15, and 16. Passing on my humble option.
This is true, the book of Job is a very old book
Thank you for passing that along. I'm going to go back and read those verses again. Thank you.
Wow
Excellent 🫡
you are right
This conversation about Job reminds me of the conversation that the deceiver had with Eve in the garden... Weird! My last study before bed was Gen 2 and 3 and then this message became my early morning study...keep seeking, is all I can say!
Currently at the 23min mark.
For several years, I imagined satan to be like a prosecutor. The Father is the Judge, Jesus is our DA, and the Spirit is the witness.
Our Father, being a just Judge, desires to hear both sides. Satan proclaims our failings-why we shouldn’t be allowed into God’s presence by listing our sins. God hears these things and considers. The Spirit testifies if the accusations are true. Finally, Jesus stands and asks one question of the Holy Spirit: does he/she truly believe and follow Me? Washed in my blood? Cleansed from sin?
Our salvation rests on what the Spirit says next. If yes, then our Father proclaims us innocent. If no, then we are cast out. Satan has a role to play and God isn’t threatened by him that He allows the role still in His court until the end of days when the role will no longer be needed.
I like what you’re saying. It definitely seems like things play out like sort of a courtroom drama (especially we we look to the feasts of yom teruah, Yom Kippur, and sukkot)
But also the way that the satan gets put away isn’t just “I don’t need you anymore”
It is clearly “here at long last is your punishment for all the evil that you have done”
The lake of fire, endless torment where the smoke rises forever, was prepared for the devil and his rebellious angels!
God is supremely good and powerful. He allowed things to play out on this earth. The great and terrible day of the LORD approaches!
Respectively. I believe Job was a real person, and Uz was a real place. Because of the fact 1. There is no indication outright that says it is “fake” 2. If you read Genesis it talks about somebody whose name was Uz. Ur in Genesis was also named after a person so it’s believed that people would establish cities and towns. It’s also reasonable that whoever Uz was possibly established a city or town. Just my thoughts.
May the Lord bless you both from Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic! I really loved this episode!
I think the argument that the accuser isn’t malicious falls on its face when he accuses Job again after he maintains his integrity. To continue to press on with trying Job a second time, this time harming him physically, is prideful, malicious, and definitely seems like it’s a test of God’s motives and ways
Yeah, I'm not buying what he's selling that sataaan is a good guy
I think you should go back and listen more carefully to what they're saying ❤️
Agree Kayla, ...Job should be a type of Christ. They are using Micheal Heisser's argument. I don't buy that argument. Job was righteous (not sinless) . But he was tested. So was Jesus when he was at the wilderness.
See Below. Satan is the accuser and he is not a good guy.
“Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, 32 but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.”
Lk 22:31-32.
I like Bible Project somewhat but I noticed Bible Project ...has a habit of softening ...many things till it seems palatable ... and many people feel relieved. I think we should read and read (and truly call out to the Holy Spirit not based on somebody's idea.) Do not think just because "you are the good guy" -- God will bless you ...and so forth ... DON't eat food from idols, eat the true food, you have to seek yourself. meaning it really forces you to seek really hard. Yourself. Right teachers can come along. But the onus is own ourselves.
@@shawnsmith3531 Agreed totally.
You guys are the best and blessed 🙏
Thank you for this wonderful lessons 🙏
We really appreciate your wonderful teaching and time given to us to learn.
May God keep you both safe and happy all the time.
This is not a thought experiment. This is a true story. The Bible is not meant to be complicated. We jump into a rabbit hole sometimes that comes with seeking education rather than seeking answers from the Holy Spirit.
❤I love this book of Job
We have studied this book of Job.....
Thankyou and God bless you all
Have listened to this 3x now, keep getting more from it.
I find it interesting Job says God slays the righteous with the wicked, it opposes Abraham about Sodom and Gomorrah.
I'm also seeing the significance of the 3 friends as 3 witnesses against him.
The Bible Project is a stellar Christian ministry that has blessed and continues to bless many. Thank you Tim, Jon, and the team. I rarely find anything to disagree with in any of your programs. The following is merely a simple observation.
It is true that book of Job says nothing beyond the descriptive ‘the adversary,’ and that we cannot construct an entire theology or biology of the entity ‘Satan’ just by this story. But then:
1. Does any do so?
2. To say that Jewish and Christian scholars import ideas from later tradition, is it saying anything other than what is a normal practice? When we find Messiah in the OT passages are we not informed in many cases by later revelation? And doesn’t this help us understand these earlier passages? Recently, Tim has read the architecture of the ark in the light of the tabernacle. Is he not importing later theology (or better insight) into an earlier text? Is that, per se, a bad thing?
3. Is it not a compendium of all scriptures together that gives us insight that there may be an adversary proper, namely Satan?
4. Who did Jesus see falling like lightening?
5. In Zechariah, is it really true that the accuser is a friendly, benign being, not a malignant one?
6. Who is that adversary, the devil, Peter warns us about?
7. In Jude, who did angel Michael rebuke?
Please, let no one rejoin that I am missing the point. I do not. I get that you cannot construct a doctrine or a whole biography on a single passage. But again, who is doing so?
This seems to me like that sort of argument that questions where the trinity. Well, many would say from reading the entire Scriptures. Thus: from whence Satan? From the entire Scriptures. People didn’t just read Job and then, viola, Satan!
Of course, I am not concluding that Tim and Jon are denying the existence of Satan. But it is one thing to say that a given passage in and of itself is not sufficient for creating a given ‘biography.’ It is another to appear to debunk the idea itself whilst pleading in for humility.
Maybe not giving Satan too much glory is the point. We know he's crafty but if Jesus said to the disciples " don't be so amazed that evil spirits obey, I saw Satan fall like lighting. BUT rather rejoice that your names are written in the book of life. Just thinking outloud. Some can focus so much on Satan that they can't rejoice over their own names being written in the book. Or help share the Gospel that others may be written in the book of life. If that makes sense. I'm not by any means arguing your beautiful statement and questions. Just thinking that to myself and wanted to share that I see Satan at times magnified more so than God. Blamed for everything! Including God's own judgment. I don't know if I said that right.
Blessings
That is a dangerous slippery slope to call Job a fictional story. Why stop with Job then, the whole Bible could be fictional stories. Nowhere in the Bible is the book of Job called a parable or eluded to be a parable. That is a very irresponsible point of view to push.
@@welshie2007 My thoughts exactly. The book would be about as useful as a Dr. Seuss book if it's a fictional story that teaches a good lesson.
@@BiblicalChristianSteve maybe its time to wake up from the dream. I mean none of us really know the truth. But because of that you have to at least acknowledge that it's possible the story is made up.
I would not say they pushed the view that Job is fictional. They presented the arguments for it and against it (James and Ezeziel's citations). I would say their opinion is cautiously neutral. More cautious than my view, which is that Job is historical.
@@nj-nu7vx It's called faith, my friend. I choose to believe without a doubt that the Bible is historical fact, not fiction. And there is plenty evidence to support my faith. Ask God to show you His son, with a humble heart, and He will.
This podcast is such a blessing. These guys are so intelligent and wise that I learn everytime. Praise Elohim!
I'm surprised however that you guys read from the NIV etc. King James Version is the way to go from the truth God has lead me to
I've always been told that any Bible that speaks to you, is the Bible to use. My daughter can't understand KJV. My grandmother got me the NIV and as a spirit filled Christian, it was alive and active as Gods word is. The original Bible wasn't KJV and they discuss that. So amazing to hear Tim teach on the Bible. Loved, loves the time he spent on it. You should google it.
But did you apply it? 😮
God won't let me give up and die. He lets the hospitals keep bringing me back but all I know is He has something He wants me to do yet I just want to go be with Him. I'm actually tired of life. I've never known weariness until now and I want His rest. The dead sleep and know nothing. That sounds extremely peaceful to me it really does
I wish for you to find peace and stay strong wherever you may be. You are worthy of life because you are here with the gift of life. The path of life may not always seem clear but the gig will soon clear
Question ❓ ❓
you guys fast and pray before doing this podcast??
Recall also God's testimony about Job, Job 42:7 It was so, that after Yahweh had spoken these words to Job, Yahweh said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “My wrath is kindled against you, and against your two friends; for you have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job has.
Thus God approves of Job's speeches about Him. God realizes when Job is speaking from bitterness of heart and is overwrought says some incredible things about God.
woot!
Justice considering the short term, mid term, long term, and very long term.
help us to realize Lord who is really in control and that Your ways are higher than our ways
I agree that whether he was historical or fictional doesn't matter that much, but in verse 5, it's clear that he was the patriarchal priest who offered sacrifices for sin, so in that sense he could have been "blameless": he even offered sin sacrifices for his children "just in case", and arguably for himself, too.
Is there any way we can get a copy of the intro/outro music? I find it exceptionally calm and soothing. :D
Defender by TENTS
He remained blameless because he was obedient.
I’m confused-are you saying Job is not a real person from the past ?
So, if all of the characters here, including Job, were Israelites, how (would) this change your argument?
It doesn't matter. 'Elihu' has a Hebraic name. 'Job' as a name is found in Genesis: 46:13 And the sons of Issachar; Tola, and Phuvah, and Job, and Shimron. KJV. The Jewish Orthodox version has: 13 And the Bnei Yissakhar: Tola, and Phuvah, and Yov, and Shimron.
J=Y in Hebrew and also V=B Yod and Beth can be transliterated as J and B or Y and V.
Maybe the lesson is supposed to be that when God or the bible say a human is righteous it does not mean we didn't sin or don't deserve punishment
What if Job was a Gentile? In your podcast episode from 2019 you said "he's like the multiverse version of Adam, Noah and Abraham," but what if he is just a Gentile? What if in the middle of the OT history of Israel, God drops in the mystery of the Gentiles. Job is quoted many times in the NT (side note even some of Jesus' parables sound like Job's parables especially about treasure and moths). But what draws me there is Job 1 and Matthew 2. Job is greater than all the men of the east, why was that distinction made, and the Magi (Gentile astrologer magicians) come from the East. Cassia is said to be mixed with the myrrh the Magi brought to Jesus and Keziah, his daughter's name, is a form of cassia. Why did the Magi even have the Scriptures to search and know that the star pointed to Jesus? I absolutely love the book of Job, the last 5 chapters are some of my favorite in the whole Bible, and I think so much rich theology is found in it, but I've still got so many questions and thoughts that don't line up with any teaching I've heard.
A problem with Job"s friends argument is that all have sin, so therefore all people should be suffering everyday all the time for to an infinite God, not only can we do no good of our own accord, that is without God help, even the sins of our past is ever before God and the consequences of those past sin. Therefore no one deserves good. The question is not why do good people suffer but why is there any love or peace at all from God to people. There are righteous people only in the sense that they trust and attempt to follow God teachings, like Abraham. But that is not his own righteousness but a righteousness given or better yet instructed to him.
Wait.. who is the Don El?
If you cling, you spoil, because you've baulked at the word of the Lord. Scheme too much (to indulge in pleasure, exalt selfishness (or, end up being hard headed)) is to smear the name of the Lord. To dupe, is to turn around, and lie (because you've denied the Lord.)
I am impervious to these.
Interesting dialog.
thanks for the random loud music throughout
So where do Christians get this Idea that Satan is the devil, lucifer, etc. That he rules over hell and that he was a beautiful fallen Angel that was jealous of god and tried to build a throne in heaven but was cast out and made to live in hell where he rules and waita for his chance to be on earth
Yes! Love JOB!!!
19:03 THERES NO INDICATION THAT SATAN IS EVIL IN THAT SCENE??? YOU SAID IT YOURSELVES, that hasatan QUESTIONED GOD and even OPPOSED HIM. THAT IS NOT A SIMPLE SHOW OF A CONFUSED ANGEL, THAT IS MANIFESTING DOUBTS TO THE ALMIGHTY GOD.
an adult trying to have a conversation with a nine year old is what this sounds like
Um, actually, at 28:30, Tim is incorrect in saying that Job, “assumes that God runs the world according to the strict principle of just recompense so his conclusion that grows throughout the book is that God is unjust or cruel…” Job does not assume that God runs the world according to the strict principle of just recompense. First, Job makes no assumption that what God has done to him at all relates to anything that Job has done to merit this misfortune, as it is implicit in Job’s response (in Job 2) that he recognizes that the God, with whom he is intimately familiar, is entitled to withdraw his blessings. Second, at Job 3:20-26, Job directly states that “the thing that I fear comes upon me, and what I dread befalls me.” It is not until Eliphaz accuses him of sins that the argument over “the strict principle of recompense” begins and in defending himself Job raises the issue of the innocent who suffer and the wicked who prosper. Tim’s Professor, Rabbi Michael V. Fox, of the University of Wisconsin, makes this point in “The Meanings of the Book of Job” (Spring 2018). Job’s errors, and later recants, in asserting that God does not care about the innocent when they suffer or in seeing the wicked prosper.
Could the DNL from Ezekiel be MKD?
Accordin to Josephus, Uz the land where Damascus is.
UZ LATVIJAS REPUBLIKAS!
I believe you go a little too far in minimizing who or what the advocate is. You make him sound like just a normal advisor. Anyone who has a different idea than God is not a normal counselor.
I agree, I think the argument of the accuser being innocent falls straight on its face once he continues to try to test job after he held to his integrity.
🎉
12:00 Can you explain the uses of האדם in Genesis 1.¬26, 27, 2.7, 15, 16, 18, 19, 20, 22, 23, 25; 3.8, 9, 12, 20, 22, 24, 4.1, ¬25
¬ means no defiant article i.e. אדם
Adam, אדם, represents humanity, divided into male and female. Originally, Ha'Adam, האדם, was unified, walking and talking with God. The separation of the letter "hei", ה, symbolizes the fall of humanity. This division created male (ish, איש) and female (isha, אשה), both symbolizing fire. Topologically, they correspond to the brain and sexual organs. These represent the split fires, allowing man and woman to regain knowledge of God through sexual union.
@@bossybuddha I see the two parts reflected in the one tree in the midst of the Garden of Eden. Male is Knowledge, female is Life. The two must exist for creation to occur, but the female part is dependent on the male part. By eating prematurely, they became a bad tree, that would eventually die outside of the Garden, in the Land of Eden. Their souls live on, thus that tree lives on through us, it is their flesh that died. The burning bush may be an image of the actual tree in the midst of the garden. The Angel of the LORD appeared as a seraphim (fiery serpent) to Moses in the midst of that worthless fruitless bush. The faithless Israel we see in the land of Palestine today is that faithless bush!
i was always taught it was Satan himself talking to God about Job, and even in my illustrated Bible it shows Satan talking to God so this is interesting.
Yet how was Satan able to be in heaven? Within the council of God. He was very clear that Satan is a normal Hebrew words which means opposer.
I am a huge BibleProject fan for years and have shared their stuff endlessly. I was recently sent a video of Tim Mackie expressing his views on some social issue stuff that was pretty disturbing. If anybody has some news on it I would be greatly appreciated.
It was a gross misinterrpretation, I’d suggest looking up the actual video and seeing what he was saying as a whole. If it’s about the lgbt thing, he never said it wasn’t a sin for someone to actively be in a gay relationship. He said you can be gay (as in, have the temptation) but be without sin IF you stay celibate, which I agree with. Being tempted isn’t a sin, acting on that temptation is
Revelation 12:9 resolves the various guises by which Satan is known: 9 The great dragon was thrown down, the old serpent, he who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
Satan is equated with 1) the dragon in Rev 12-13; 2) the serpent in Gen. 3; 3) the deceiver of the whole world; 4) Satan.
There's your biography. Using Occam's razor, the simplest explanation is "ha satan" in Job is Satan, the rebellious angel that led 1/3 of the angels astray. The clincher is Revelation 12:10 I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation, the power, and the Kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ has come; for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them before our God day and night.
Satan accuses Christians/righteous people before God day and night. This is exactly what we see in Job.
Regarding importing later theology into an earlier book--no problem! God is behind the whole Bible and inspires it all and it all must be true. Adding truth to truth does not distort truth.
The question of whether this book is meant to be historical or fictional is a good one. It is wisdom literature and is meant to be instructive. I lean toward historical on an 80-20 bias. We'll find out for sure at Jesus's return.
13:15 So Tim is a "satan" here, raising questions about how we usually read this literature 😏
MARK REMEMBER........... "THE 'LOVE' OF MONEY IS THE ROOT OF'ALL' EVIL.....
So, UZ is from the Hebrew land of Uz (Hebrew: אֶרֶץ־עוּץ - ʾereṣ-ʿŪṣ) or US.... Interesting enough right? And Job, could also be taken as Iyyōḇ, or iobe... or iove, iovi or Jove, which was another name for Jupiter :)
Indeed, that was intended, as Jove, Love, and Jehovah are synonymous. Thus, Job is an individual with tremendous spiritual faculties and wealth because he is united with God. This also explains the land in which he is, because it's a firmament unreachable, similar to the place where Yeshua Christ ascended.
Great podcast, but goodness, too many ads! Like every 5 min. Please scale back.
So the book is just someone trying to understand why bad things happen to "good" people? Now I don't see the book of Job as scripture. It's just a made up story to showcase someone's opinion.
You know sounds like the Satan talks about job Prof he side sound god still getting temptation in beginning with Satan 😢
Uz was in Australia, and Job was a woman but written as a man because of the times it was written, this is my personal opinion
*The King James bible **_was_** at one time a literary masterpiece without blemish. There were no spelling, grammar or punctuation errors in it. I have a short film in my playlist on how that came about. Now, they're on every page! Satan has **_supernaturally_** attacked it more than any other translation, but all of them in every language have been destroyed in the fulfillment of prophecy! Plus all concordances, encyclopedias, dictionaries, history books, the original manuscripts and the Dead Sea scrolls have been miraculously changed!*
*Not every word, Satan is too smart for that and he understands that rats won't eat pure poison so .05% is added to 99.95% corn and the rats love it... and perish for lack of knowlege!*
*Our Father said to "prove all things" and you better obey Him on this thing especially. I have an exceptional memory, I clearly remember my third birthday party and can draw an accurate picture of my baby stroller. I'm 70, was saved when I was 10 and **_had been_** reading only the **_exact same copy_** of the King James bible since 1961. (I am not a king James onlyist though.) I memorized many scriptures out of it over the years and I absolutely **_know_** that the word **_demons_** used to be all through it. But today that word is not anywhere in there! It was replaced with **_devils._** And the only place I've ever read the word **_wineskins_** was in my bible, but it's not in it any more either. It was replaced with **_bottles._** And now **_unicorns, easter, matrix, castles, damsels, stuff, corn, colleges, banks, employment, schools, missles, tires, mufflers, manifolds, engines, highways, suburbs, pavement, presidents, doctors, pilots, sheriffs, beer, dumb ass, India, Spain, Italy, ferryboats, couches_** and lots of other words are in my bible that I never saw in it my whole life! Many of these words are anachronisms (they didn't even exist in 1611!) It never talked about men with milk in their breasts nursing babies either, but now it does! Isaiah 11:6 used to say the **_lion_** shall lie down with the lamb, not the **_wolf_** shall also dwell with the lamb! Lion represents Jesus and wolf is associated with Satan! The first eleven films in my playlist will show you plenty of undeniable "residue" (proof of what **_was_** that Satan missed) on that verse. Luke 17:34 used to say "two shall be in one bed, one shall be taken and the other one left", but now it says "two **_men_** shall be in one bed.......! And the following verse said "two women shall be grinding at the mill together......" and now it just says "two women shall be **_grinding together_** ......! So now the bible makes it sound like homosexuals are going to be raptured!*
But *this is the biggie,* in Luke 19:27 it has Jesus saying "And those mine enemies that would not that I should reign over them, bring hither and *SLAY THEM BEFORE ME!"* It did say _eshew_ them. This change makes Christians sound like radical extremists!! *Millions of Christians will be killed because of this verse!!!* And I know that this is a parable, but the king Jesus was talking about was Himself, the King of Kings! The film titled *Satan's Agents and Doctrines of Demons* which is in my playlist is just about this verse, and is the most important video most of you have ever seen.
*I memorized the Lord's prayer as a boy because Jesus told us to say it, and I have probably said it tens of thousands of times, and it absolutely did not say **_which_** art in heaven, it said **_who_** art in heaven, it didn't say **_in earth,_** it was **_on earth._** And it now says forgive us our **_debts_** instead of our **_trespasses._*
*God has sent His strong delusion to all of the people that never received the love of the truth! What's scary is, so far that appears to be most believers! This incredible phenomenon they're calling the Mandela effect is absolutely real, but it should actually be called the Daniel 7:25 effect. I first became aware of some of the bible changes in 2014 before I ever had a computer or had heard of the Mandela effect. But since 2016 I've watched hundreds of videos on the subject, and saved some of the best and most important ones for proving your bible has been changed and pointing out all the places this was talked about in end time prophecies in my playlist which you can see by 👉 typing into TH-cam (PROOF OF BIBLE CHANGE RESIDUE JUNKIE)* 👀 👈
*Even though I will no longer read any bible, mine gives me the creeps just looking at it like a Ouija board or something, so I continue to study what God inspired men to write by seeing what scriptures have been changed with proof of what was originally written. I urge you all to do the same, while you still can, because when **_all_** truth is censored, or we no longer have access to internet, all we'll have then is hard copies of the bible Satan wants us reading! At that point Amos **8:12** will be fulfilled where it says we will no longer be able to find His words anywhere again.*
*This is without question the biggest and most important event since the day of Pentecost! When you see absolute proof that the miraculous fulfillment of end time prophecies are happening with your own eyes, and how close we are to our Savior's return, it's the most faith strengthening and exciting thing that you've ever experienced! And if your pastor hasn't told you about this, you better find one that has told his people about it!*
*God bless you all!!!*
Spam and misinformation
Thanks for opening my eyes where can I get the original KJ bible or any bible version not altered. What i currently have seems to be wrongly translated.
@@johnonguraofficial4768 kjv has it's on issues, just like every translation will.