I mean, they probably made Goku into Superman because they have pretty much the same backstory. Only difference is that Superman's homeworld was an advanced and benevolent society, while Goku comes from a planet of bloodthirsty space-vikings.
@@TheLangenatorkrypton isn’t usually a benevolent place. It was that way in the 50s during the sliver age when it got more characterization past it being Superman’s home planet. But that was very short lived and even before the first major company wide reboot, they changed it to into a more despotic version after crisis on infinite earths, it is usually an isolationist dystopia of a fallen galactic empire. The reason why Jor-el had to make the rocket that shipped out his son in secret was because there was a law prohibiting space travel and in most stories, Zod tried to lead a facist military coup because he thought that he’d be less harmful than the sitting leading council that ignored Jor-el’s warnings about the planet’s core being unstable. We also see that in stories where Superman grows up on krypton like the man who has everything by Alan Moore, the action comics story arc booster shot, the elseworlds story; Superman last son of earth by Steve Gerber and even more modern adaptions like the my adventures with Superman cartoon that krypton was a society in decline and on the verge of collapse or revolt. There’s also the instances where other aliens meet Superman or supergirl and find out that they’re kryptonians and they react in the same way as if they meet the evil empire faction in any other story and the times where we see the bottle city of kandor, it’s usually Superman and supergirl having to deal with the xenophobia of the kandorians. Tdlr; krypton is a not benevolent place and the main difference between kryptonians and sayians is that sayians were ruled by Freiza and wiped out at potentially the height of thier power, kryptonians had already lost thier empire and died due to their own ignorance.
@@hooliganmulligan To be honest, I don't like the My adventure with Superman version of Krypton. It felt way too similar to Planet Vegeta & Planet Viltrum, down to the part where Krypton's fall is due to their violent nature. Most previous versions show that Krypton is a stagnant/declining empire that is no longer expanding or progressing. Their doom came from complacency & pride, believing that nothing could destroy them, while their planet was falling apart socially & literally
I also want to headcanon that Gohan continues to do his Great Saiyaman thing after Pan is born because I find the idea of him evolving into Anime Clark Kent endlessly amusing.
i mean, there was that thing when some guy wanted to make a Great Saiyaman Movie and, SOMEHOW, Gohan ends up as the stunt double. and he was already married at that point.
It's also really fascinating how, according to the official timeline that Toriyama wrote to lead into Dragon Ball Online, Gohan was at the forefront of teaching the entire world about just how Ki works, which effectively created a martial arts revolution that got everyone into becoming some form of martial artist. One article within the book even inspired Goten and Trunks to make their own school of swordsmanship, which is how the Martial Artist's Swordsman prestige class comes from! And all this after his father disappears for one last fight with Vegeta.
14:33 Well good news for you, Stuart. It didn't really end like a wet fart. Gohan was still part-timing and Videl stepped down due to Pan being born, but there was a whole arc about Great Saiyaman and Mr. Satan having a team-up movie. And in the Super manga, right at the beginning of the Super Hero arc, Trunks and Goten take up the mantle of heroes as the Great Saiyaman X-1 and X-2.
6:28 well to be fair, he told Goku, "you gotta save them" and Goku responded "I can't get there in time..." Which prompted Gohan to be shocked on how he forgot
Gohan really was the most well-written character from the start of Z through the Cell Saga. His eventual growth that led to the explosive reveal to SSJ2 was foreshadowed from the very beginning. Gohan's rage stems from his gentle nature, as he is a compassionate young man, and violating those beliefs are what drives him into a rage at every showing of his hidden potential. As such, his transformation into Super Saiyan 2 feels more conclusive to his character arc. It truly is Gohan coming into his own and accepting that his rigid pacifism can't be upheld if he wishes to protect what he values. If he is going to be able to continue protecting who and what he loves, he has to accept this dark rage that's been brewing inside of him since he was born. He's almost scared of accepting this power that he clearly does not want. His awareness of it after a year of training with his dad seems to bring Gohan into a clearer understanding of his true capabilities, but he has seen what the Super Saiyan forms have done to the personalities of Goku and Trunks and Vegeta - and Broly if you count that movie - and he seems terrified of how he might change if he takes that step into that power. And frankly, Gohan is right to be afraid. By the age of eleven, he's already a seasoned veteran. His intelligence and analytical nature are as much a product of his experiences as they are the training he underwent with Goku and Piccolo as well as the academic fast track that Chi Chi has had him on since he was four. It's part of what separates him from the likes of Goku and the other adults. But in meeting the kindred soul of Android 16 and seeing him die at the hand - or rather foot - of Cell, who represents the worst of what Gohan's own Saiyan nature has to offer, Gohan breaks. I have always enjoyed Gohan as a character since I was basically his age when the English dub of Z was first coming out back in the late 90's and early 2000's. He felt like an audience surrogate into the world of Dragon Ball Z. And with the rage and PTSD I was going through, he felt like someone I would have wanted to have as a friend: a gentle soul thrust into a violent world and struggling to hold onto his values while still managing to mature. Gohan, Piccolo, and Bulma have long since held the top 3 spots for my favorite characters and it's not hard to see why. They're all outsiders in a world where strength means everything but manage to hold their own with a wit and intelligence that is rarely emphasized overtly and are usually the ones making sense of and relating things for the audience. TFS does a phenomenal job with handling the relatability of Gohan's character. He's kind, self-aware, but he's not perfect. They gave him a long ladder to climb after being the only sane person in the room for a long time. And they ended the Abridged series on a great note. And it's as I've said before: TFS's signature is starting with profanity and ending on profundity. Happy Holidays to everyone! I love this community and these videos. They've been a huge part of a long year of personal growth for me and were a great way to pass the time while recovering from surgery this year.
OKAY, I avoided mentioning Krillin Shillin on the members only, but it’s KRILLIN SHILLIN TIME! We all know how untrue the “Goku’s a bad dad/Piccolo is Gohan’s real dad” jokes are, but you know what isn’t fake? KRILLIN OS THE UNCLE WHO MADE SURE GOHAN STAYED ALIVE WHILE HIS DADS WERE DEAD! When Goku told them to get away while he fought Vegeta, sure in the abridged Krillin ran like a cowards, but in the main story he took on the mentor role from that moment all the way to getting all the dragonballs on Namek. Even after that, during the time between getting back from Namek and Freiza’s arrival, he’s the main one to check in on Gohan and make sure the little guy’s okay now that he’s the man of the house. TFS didn’t do the Garlic Jr saga, but in that bit of filler especially he’s doing everything possible to make sure Gohan doesn’t die. And let’s not forget, TFS did take into account that mah boy is packin and as good that he erased his “Krillin Owned” counter when 18 came by to rock his world!
7:31 I know the Abridged doesn't really mention it, but Goku and Gohan don't use the full 12 months in the time chamber. They actually exit about a month or so early. I just thought that it would be fun to bring this up, btw.
I would have given the "No. I AM adult" but a Nat 20 scene personally. But but I loved Gohan in Superhero. Just a peaceful unassuming Entomologist, not causing any trouble. Then Mario kidnaps his baby girl.
I don't know if Toriyama got cold feet and couldn't pull the trigger or if his editors or the people at Shonen Jump didn't want to risk alienating the fan base by switching the MC, but it always felt like OG Dragon Ball was a coming of age story for Goku and DBZ was a coming of age story for Gohan to me. Especially up until the Cell arc, with Gohan going from a sheltered little kid being pushed to his limits and forced into life or death situations that he isn't prepared for at the beginning of Z, to a pacifist whose forced to fight/ kill Cell due to being the only one capable enough to do it but has severe anger issues from years of trauma that has continued since Raditz showed up which prevents it. The Buu saga should've been him finally coming into his own by accepting himself and his trauma and fully realizing his duty to be Earth's strongest protector as he learns to control his rage and not be influenced by it. He was even canonically stronger the Goku when Kid Buu was defeated so why they didn't have him end it is beyond me.
i'll be honest, DBZ never felt like a coming of age story for gohan to me. it felt like the goku show up until the cell games (not even the whole saga)
100% with you on the great saiyaman being actually enjoyable. We've got a few DBZ tapes, and the VHS with the three episodes of him just being a super hero might be our most replayed one.
Around 19:03 Fun fact, that's an anime problem, in the manga Gohan is going to finish Super Buu quickly, but he uses a tactic to escape and plan a way to absorb Gotenks... Gohan is just dumb enough to let them fuse and not immediately suspect something is wrong.
Oh god I've never been this early. I hope you can get the 90k. Also this series made me enjoy Gohan way more than the original ( Both the abridge and the dings you dish out, pun intended)
I also love the Super Hero movie. I find it to be an amazing tonal and thematic middle ground between OG, Z, and Super. Goku and Vegeta take a backseat for a change, and we get a movie with Piccolo of all characters as our POV. I love that Piccolo is now just a part of the family, and is pretty much Pan's godfather as he was with Gohan.
11:28 not meaning this to dog on you guys, especially on Christmas Eve of all times that'd be the biggest Grinch Move, just noticed the little trip up of two key words in the sentence. "...everyone that *killed Cell*." vs "reviving everyone that *Cell killed*." Other than that; great video, I can see your reasoning on Great Saiyaman, your gains are looking *Emaculate*, and may you, your family, and your staff all have a merry Christmas or happy Hanukkah and a safe and happy New Year.
Another former teacher here. Common core is absolutely garbage. Kids don't all learn at the same pace. Common core doesn't set up for success by turning everyone into good little robots, it stifles creative thinking and wrecks students' self-esteem if they can't grasp the concepts, which aren't built for everyone to grasp. Federal government should stay out of education and it should be more localized. Because local teachers know what kids need more than someone in Washington does.
I agree Great Saiyaman is peak Gohan and i am sad we never got to see more of him and Videl being the great Saiya power couple Like how did Super never make an episode about them going on a date night and just beating up criminals as superheroes
I just got the Waifu handbook, me and friends are planning a game with me as the DM We have Zenoko Bard, Okami Druid, Shinryujin Battle Bride, and Human Witch (Housewife as patron)
Homeschooling is super dependent on the home school course. As a child care provider and said provider of home school courses myself, they can vary in quality. A lot.
Shall have to respectfully disagree about the Cell saga Vs Super Hero comparison. His Super Saiyan 2 transformation WAS earned. Not because 16 specifically died, but because ANYONE, at all, died because of his failures. The abridged series actually did a better job of portraying it (benefits of hindsight). His transformation was triggered by his frustration at his own reluctance to face his responsibilities, NOT by the death of some guy he'd just met. It was a payoff to the foreshadowing that been present since Gohan was first introduced. I do think that Gohan peaked in the Cell saga, though I did also enjoy the whole Great Saiyaman thing. It was nice seeing Gohan doing his own thing, for once. And the Ginyu force were awesome, so it was nice seeing Gohans PTSD being put to good use. Now, the Super Hero movie, on the other hand, was a FANTASTIC Piccolo movie, ruined at the end by Gohan fanservice being shoehorned in. The 'Orange Piccolo' form was gained via a literal magic wish dragon and a pre-established technique that was present throughout the series: potential unlocks. Was it still an asspull? Kinda, but this is Dragon Ball. There's a lot of that. The 'Beast' form, on the other hand came out of nowhere and exists solely to milk the popularity of Gohans transformation in the Cell saga. Pure, empty fanservice (and don't get me started on Cell Max. Using Cells worst form for even more empty fanservice). The 'Beast' form had no buildup, no foreshadowing, and wasn't earned in any way. Piccolo SPECIFICALLY pointed out that Gohan had been slacking on his training and was losing his touch. It's pretty clear that all of that fanservice was tacked on at the end to prey on peoples nostalgia and sell action figures. FANTASTIC Piccolo movie, terrible ending.
Correction: Gokū and Gohan only spent about 10 months in the Room of Spirit and Time. They went out early. Also, Gohan is canonically 10 during the Cell Games.
Ok but every time I hear the plug for the Waifu Handbook, all I can think about is how much I want it to work with Pathbuilder. I spend way too much of my time crafting characters in that app lol.
I mean, to be honest, we really don't know much about Videl's mother in canon other than that, she was a singer and that her name is Miguel. 🤷♂️ A video about regular Gohan can't wait for that. 🙂
Something I find is underrepresented in Gohans Media is his interactions with the likes of Bulma and Krillen. His dads oldest friends who have been in his life since he was four. The show doesn’t do muxh with it, but I see them as pseudo guardians and litteral one's when travelling to Namek. While neither is super responsible, Gohan furthers his martial arts training with Krillen. I would say that he sees Bulma as an authorative figure and the only person he could talk to about any kind of science. I'm not sure if there's anything realltvthere or id thay goes fo far into fanfiction, but ah, well
Okay, thank you for defending Great Sayaman. i love that arc for him. Gohan has always been my most related to character, and the angry kid who just wants to do nerdy shit and help people coalesces during Great Sayaman. (also cute, tomboy, fighter gf Videl had me mad jealous, ngl.)
I think you are letting your biases fly a little too strong with the SSJ2 Gohan vs Great Saiyaman Gohan stance. I love the Great Saiyaman stuff and how it highlights a big part of what I love as a huge Gohan fan: the biggest Clark Kent/Peter Parker parts of his personality, the feeling of not just responsibility but genuine desire to do good with his gifts. Whether that's his Saiyan genetics and training or his big wrinkly brain. But I'll say right now, you *cannot* have Great Saiyaman Gohan without his crashout as SSJ2 vs Cell. You even said it yourself, he was an 11 year old kid, 1 of those years being in an extradimensional space where only 1 of our days passed in comparison. He was dragged into this fight literally by his uncle as a 4 year old babby and was involved in nonstop training, beatings, and fights to the death including his own father and other parental figures for years at a kindergarten age. And like you said in the Cell fight portion, he has no control of his emotion but one thing he was sure of was his utter lack of desire to see any more death, especially ones he feels he may have been able to prevent now that, after training with Goku, he knows he's more than strong enough to compared to on Namek or when Frieza returned when he was far lower on the totem pole of power. Which is where 16 came into play. I wish we had gotten in the main series or even in Abridged what we got in Kakarot where it was shown that Gohan helped Bulma with her repairs of 16. But even with what we got, you had a literal machine programmed to kill his father leaping in, far outclassed in power and able *and willing* to die and no chance of Shenron ex machina to bring him back for a child and people he barely knew...all without question if it meant stopping this monster who threatened life, despite 16 not even being "alive." And even when blasted to bits, wanted to still be thrown again into the fray to try to reach the person who could fight the fight he couldn't - not for pride like Vegeta or for fun like Goku but to protect life - even though he was still functioning, still could be repaired, 16 still threw himself willingly into his permanent end just to send that message...and then was crushed right before his eyes. Gohan stood by, as if he were powerless to avoid 16 being blow up, powerless to save his father and friends from being beaten by the Cell Juniors, powerless to stop Cell from finally killing someone directly in front of him...he couldn't control his emotions, but that was the last straw. And this 11 year old kid, knowing deep down how powerful he is, could no longer reconcile feeling powerless and let the power take hold to make it end. Thus, the snap. But, just like Goku initially on Namek, that snap twisted Gohan's instincts. Except this was the next level of Super Saiyan and in the hands of an prepubescent in the midst of a death match and shouldering about half a decade of PTSD...Gohan is a tempest of emotions now doubled. Where righteous anger was now is indignant fury. Where once was pacifist disdain was now a "necessary" hate. And where once was powerlessness to protect a life now is unmatched power to hurt. And all aimed at Cell, all of it clouding his judgment, and it taking another selfless sacrifice in his father to clear Gohan's mind and remind him of who he was. Leading to selflessly jump in to save Vegeta and finally to lock-in and stand his ground vs Cell's final attack. He would not be powerless and would stand on business to protect everyone he could. This was a lesson Gohan needed, not acting out of impulse and anger and impotence (like what happened on Namek "fuck the stream!") but still keeping that innate desire to help and channel it in a functional way. He had that moment on Namek, a repeat of it twisted vs Cell, but it becoming a genuine learning point for him, after then 7 years of progress and maturing, to become a bonafide hero.
i disagree with the android 16 statement. it wasn't about whether or not gohan knew 16, it was about giving gohan the speech he needed to to unshackle himself. no one else was telling him what he needed to hear, in both versions. nobody was _REALLY_ making it make sense to him until android 16 gave him the speech that was then punctuated by his very permeate death.
I'd like to see one for Tanya von Degurachaff from Youjo Senki: The Saga of Tanya the Evil. I may be getting ahead of myself, but I imagine she'd at least start at Lawful Evil.
14:!4 100% could not agree more. It has always annoyed me when people say Great Saiyaman ruined Gohan. It felt like a CRIME we didn't at least get a reference to Saiyaman in the movie called "Super Hero" with Gohan as a focus. Could you imagine how satisfying it would have felt for Gohan to talk to the Gammas or Hedo about what it means to be a hero? Same for the Pride Troopers during the Tournament of Power honestly. I wish Gohan wore his Saiyaman watch to that to make the interactions he had with the Pride Troopers mean that much more. The Saiyaman outfit is something that is uniquely his, one of the few outfits he would be comfortable fighting in (probably minus the cape and head coverings), that he doesn't just take from Goku or Piccolo.
@@TheLoadingCrew , I want that Gohan video. I was the same age as Gohan when he fought Cell (11), so at the time, of course I was fangirling over him, but as an adult, no, that's child torture, and it's not a good thing. I want to hear more on your perspective regarding his character going forward, because, from my perspective, he never really got to be the hero UNTIL Great Saiyaman. But everyone craps on that arc. So why?
I felt like this was relevant in the first video as well; but directly subverting the wishes of his mom and going along with his dad's lies should be a chaotic ding in some capacity - even if it was in the interests of saving the earth. Thats a chaotic good ding; not a lawful good!
the 16 scene I like better in abridged, because gohan clearly was put through the ringer, getting beat by cell, his dad being a moron and even in seasons 1 and 2, this was a built up explosion, 16 I see is just the final straw because it's another life loss because of his weakness
The Dragonball Super: Super Hero movie was intended to be a Piccolo movie, but Toei made Toriyama shoehorn Gohan into it. It is one of the worst peices of media for Gohan because all it does is retread his Android/Cell Saga arc, makes him stop training (once again) despite in Super him admitting that he needs to keep up with his training and not just rely on Goku and Vegeta to handle threats, and his acquistion of his Beast form rings more hollow emotionally that Super Saiyan 2. I love Gohan, he is one of my favorite Dragonball characters, but he continuously gets mishandeled almost everytime he appears in the story, excluding Great Saiyaman. Like, I wouldn't even mind him giving up fighting to focus on being a scholar since he is more of a pacifist, but he has to accept that not doing so runs the risk of him not being strong enough to protect his loved ones, not lament it when he's getting his ass handed to him. Gohan is smart, he should have the pattern recognition to see there will always be a stronger threat that will show up one day out of the blue. Even if he believes his dad and Vegeta could handle anything that comes to Earth, they can't be everywhere at once, and worst get, the both have a track record of being fashionable late to big, important fights. It's just really annoying to see Gohan treated like this again and again.
Could I suggest someone to do an alignment thing for? Roland from Library of Ruina. This character is very complex and hypocritical and might be an interesting case of lawful neutral/lawful evil/true neutral/neutral evil thats a good guy protagonist. (Or chaotic evil, its a bit weird with him.)
IMO, Gohan is Lawful Good throughout most of childhood and the entirety of his adulthood through Z and Super. Which is why he only gets badass when his rage takes over, I mean the new Super Hero film, THAT is what Lawful Good looks like. (dont forget, its Lawful Good, not Lawful Nice, or Lawful Puss-Ass. Law and Morality supersede darker urges, but a Lawful Good's JOB is also to uphold righteous justice against evil, which is why in the old days, ONLY a Lawful Good could become a Paladin. Clerics heal, fighters fight, barbarians rage, Paladins Smite EVIL.)..............and get that Anti-Paladin Oathbreaker garbage outta here lol
In the actually show, sure, but in DBZ:A, the reprisal of Cell's "P is for Priceless" song combined with the death beam not only acting as a sudden cut to the music, but the episode too, makes the scene pretty good imo.
Shouldn't it be Neutral Good to train with Goku and Piccolo? He's not technically disobeying his mother because she did approve of educational trips but, Chichi's main concern was Gohan being in danger/neglecting book learning. Sidenote: Why is Gohan learning Chinese? Shouldn't his first language be a Chinese dialect? Roshi, Ox King, Chichi, and Son Gohan(old) all wear very Chinese attire. Plus being uneducated hill folk means they shouldn't speak the common tongue.
Honestly, while earlier dubs tried to make Goku into Superman, it makes WAY more sense for Gohan to become a Superman-like figure
If Goku is similar to Superman, Gohan's adjacent would probably be invincible. Minus the... bad dad circumstance
I mean, they probably made Goku into Superman because they have pretty much the same backstory.
Only difference is that Superman's homeworld was an advanced and benevolent society, while Goku comes from a planet of bloodthirsty space-vikings.
@@TheLangenatorkrypton isn’t usually a benevolent place. It was that way in the 50s during the sliver age when it got more characterization past it being Superman’s home planet. But that was very short lived and even before the first major company wide reboot, they changed it to into a more despotic version after crisis on infinite earths, it is usually an isolationist dystopia of a fallen galactic empire. The reason why Jor-el had to make the rocket that shipped out his son in secret was because there was a law prohibiting space travel and in most stories, Zod tried to lead a facist military coup because he thought that he’d be less harmful than the sitting leading council that ignored Jor-el’s warnings about the planet’s core being unstable. We also see that in stories where Superman grows up on krypton like the man who has everything by Alan Moore, the action comics story arc booster shot, the elseworlds story; Superman last son of earth by Steve Gerber and even more modern adaptions like the my adventures with Superman cartoon that krypton was a society in decline and on the verge of collapse or revolt. There’s also the instances where other aliens meet Superman or supergirl and find out that they’re kryptonians and they react in the same way as if they meet the evil empire faction in any other story and the times where we see the bottle city of kandor, it’s usually Superman and supergirl having to deal with the xenophobia of the kandorians.
Tdlr; krypton is a not benevolent place and the main difference between kryptonians and sayians is that sayians were ruled by Freiza and wiped out at potentially the height of thier power, kryptonians had already lost thier empire and died due to their own ignorance.
@@hooliganmulligan To be honest, I don't like the My adventure with Superman version of Krypton. It felt way too similar to Planet Vegeta & Planet Viltrum, down to the part where Krypton's fall is due to their violent nature. Most previous versions show that Krypton is a stagnant/declining empire that is no longer expanding or progressing. Their doom came from complacency & pride, believing that nothing could destroy them, while their planet was falling apart socially & literally
“Where I naturally do not talk about Frieza.”
Of course you don’t. You did that last Frieza Day.
I prefer boxing day, so I don't have to hear about him for another Yema-forsaken year
@@Crocogator ha lol😂
I also want to headcanon that Gohan continues to do his Great Saiyaman thing after Pan is born because I find the idea of him evolving into Anime Clark Kent endlessly amusing.
i mean, there was that thing when some guy wanted to make a Great Saiyaman Movie and, SOMEHOW, Gohan ends up as the stunt double. and he was already married at that point.
15:56
"You dodge attacks. You ACCEPT gifts."
-Nick Landis
It's also really fascinating how, according to the official timeline that Toriyama wrote to lead into Dragon Ball Online, Gohan was at the forefront of teaching the entire world about just how Ki works, which effectively created a martial arts revolution that got everyone into becoming some form of martial artist. One article within the book even inspired Goten and Trunks to make their own school of swordsmanship, which is how the Martial Artist's Swordsman prestige class comes from!
And all this after his father disappears for one last fight with Vegeta.
14:33 Well good news for you, Stuart. It didn't really end like a wet fart. Gohan was still part-timing and Videl stepped down due to Pan being born, but there was a whole arc about Great Saiyaman and Mr. Satan having a team-up movie.
And in the Super manga, right at the beginning of the Super Hero arc, Trunks and Goten take up the mantle of heroes as the Great Saiyaman X-1 and X-2.
6:28 well to be fair, he told Goku, "you gotta save them" and Goku responded "I can't get there in time..." Which prompted Gohan to be shocked on how he forgot
Gohan really was the most well-written character from the start of Z through the Cell Saga. His eventual growth that led to the explosive reveal to SSJ2 was foreshadowed from the very beginning. Gohan's rage stems from his gentle nature, as he is a compassionate young man, and violating those beliefs are what drives him into a rage at every showing of his hidden potential. As such, his transformation into Super Saiyan 2 feels more conclusive to his character arc. It truly is Gohan coming into his own and accepting that his rigid pacifism can't be upheld if he wishes to protect what he values. If he is going to be able to continue protecting who and what he loves, he has to accept this dark rage that's been brewing inside of him since he was born. He's almost scared of accepting this power that he clearly does not want. His awareness of it after a year of training with his dad seems to bring Gohan into a clearer understanding of his true capabilities, but he has seen what the Super Saiyan forms have done to the personalities of Goku and Trunks and Vegeta - and Broly if you count that movie - and he seems terrified of how he might change if he takes that step into that power.
And frankly, Gohan is right to be afraid. By the age of eleven, he's already a seasoned veteran. His intelligence and analytical nature are as much a product of his experiences as they are the training he underwent with Goku and Piccolo as well as the academic fast track that Chi Chi has had him on since he was four. It's part of what separates him from the likes of Goku and the other adults. But in meeting the kindred soul of Android 16 and seeing him die at the hand - or rather foot - of Cell, who represents the worst of what Gohan's own Saiyan nature has to offer, Gohan breaks.
I have always enjoyed Gohan as a character since I was basically his age when the English dub of Z was first coming out back in the late 90's and early 2000's. He felt like an audience surrogate into the world of Dragon Ball Z. And with the rage and PTSD I was going through, he felt like someone I would have wanted to have as a friend: a gentle soul thrust into a violent world and struggling to hold onto his values while still managing to mature. Gohan, Piccolo, and Bulma have long since held the top 3 spots for my favorite characters and it's not hard to see why. They're all outsiders in a world where strength means everything but manage to hold their own with a wit and intelligence that is rarely emphasized overtly and are usually the ones making sense of and relating things for the audience.
TFS does a phenomenal job with handling the relatability of Gohan's character. He's kind, self-aware, but he's not perfect. They gave him a long ladder to climb after being the only sane person in the room for a long time. And they ended the Abridged series on a great note. And it's as I've said before: TFS's signature is starting with profanity and ending on profundity.
Happy Holidays to everyone! I love this community and these videos. They've been a huge part of a long year of personal growth for me and were a great way to pass the time while recovering from surgery this year.
Hard agreed here and Happy Holidays to you as well!
@@GohanLSSJ2, thank you!
Great Sayianman is your favorite Gohan? You dropped this King. 👑
16:29 HE SAID IT! HE SAID THE THING!
15:34 Videl lying about how her mother died was for the gag comparing them to Batman and Superman.
OKAY, I avoided mentioning Krillin Shillin on the members only, but it’s KRILLIN SHILLIN TIME!
We all know how untrue the “Goku’s a bad dad/Piccolo is Gohan’s real dad” jokes are, but you know what isn’t fake? KRILLIN OS THE UNCLE WHO MADE SURE GOHAN STAYED ALIVE WHILE HIS DADS WERE DEAD! When Goku told them to get away while he fought Vegeta, sure in the abridged Krillin ran like a cowards, but in the main story he took on the mentor role from that moment all the way to getting all the dragonballs on Namek. Even after that, during the time between getting back from Namek and Freiza’s arrival, he’s the main one to check in on Gohan and make sure the little guy’s okay now that he’s the man of the house.
TFS didn’t do the Garlic Jr saga, but in that bit of filler especially he’s doing everything possible to make sure Gohan doesn’t die.
And let’s not forget, TFS did take into account that mah boy is packin and as good that he erased his “Krillin Owned” counter when 18 came by to rock his world!
I absolutely love the idea of red flag Gohan, the thought that he becomes more bloodthirsty as his power increases
7:31 I know the Abridged doesn't really mention it, but Goku and Gohan don't use the full 12 months in the time chamber. They actually exit about a month or so early. I just thought that it would be fun to bring this up, btw.
I would have given the "No. I AM adult" but a Nat 20 scene personally.
But but I loved Gohan in Superhero.
Just a peaceful unassuming Entomologist, not causing any trouble.
Then Mario kidnaps his baby girl.
To be fair, Kakarot fixes Gohan not having a conversation with 16. He helps repair 16 and they have a conversation afterwards.
Yeah, but they cut the Final Flash.
At least the DLC gave us a good one.
I don't know if Toriyama got cold feet and couldn't pull the trigger or if his editors or the people at Shonen Jump didn't want to risk alienating the fan base by switching the MC, but it always felt like OG Dragon Ball was a coming of age story for Goku and DBZ was a coming of age story for Gohan to me. Especially up until the Cell arc, with Gohan going from a sheltered little kid being pushed to his limits and forced into life or death situations that he isn't prepared for at the beginning of Z, to a pacifist whose forced to fight/ kill Cell due to being the only one capable enough to do it but has severe anger issues from years of trauma that has continued since Raditz showed up which prevents it. The Buu saga should've been him finally coming into his own by accepting himself and his trauma and fully realizing his duty to be Earth's strongest protector as he learns to control his rage and not be influenced by it. He was even canonically stronger the Goku when Kid Buu was defeated so why they didn't have him end it is beyond me.
i'll be honest, DBZ never felt like a coming of age story for gohan to me. it felt like the goku show up until the cell games (not even the whole saga)
100% with you on the great saiyaman being actually enjoyable. We've got a few DBZ tapes, and the VHS with the three episodes of him just being a super hero might be our most replayed one.
Given the choice Gohan probably would play Pathfinder considering how much reading is involved.
17:31 "world of the guys" is such an unreasonably funny typo to me.
Sharpner just being Kaiser playing up the camp tone of voice is just fantastic
Around 19:03 Fun fact, that's an anime problem, in the manga Gohan is going to finish Super Buu quickly, but he uses a tactic to escape and plan a way to absorb Gotenks... Gohan is just dumb enough to let them fuse and not immediately suspect something is wrong.
0:27 "Dude have you been working out? Cause you sure smell like it"
How was that? Did I do it right?
Hope you have a great Christmas and a fantastic New Year, my guy.
Freeza day!
@@geistgrace6452 Yes yes, Freeza Day*.
Kinda wish TFS embraced the idea of the mannerisms of the great saiya man persona being potential trauma from dealing with the Ginyu force.
Oh god I've never been this early. I hope you can get the 90k. Also this series made me enjoy Gohan way more than the original ( Both the abridge and the dings you dish out, pun intended)
Firmly chaotic good after 16's speech, then returns to lawful good after the timeskip
I also love the Super Hero movie. I find it to be an amazing tonal and thematic middle ground between OG, Z, and Super. Goku and Vegeta take a backseat for a change, and we get a movie with Piccolo of all characters as our POV. I love that Piccolo is now just a part of the family, and is pretty much Pan's godfather as he was with Gohan.
NGL having god hand wave and saying you are lawful good is a helpful way to push you alignment.
Not sure how i never realised Android 16 never talked to gohan in the abridged wild
Do they interact in canon? I don't remember them being in the same scene until the tournament
No, but there’s a cute side quest in DBZ Kakarot, where as Gohan you fight poachers with Android 16
I hope we can hit 100k!
me too :)
11:28 not meaning this to dog on you guys, especially on Christmas Eve of all times that'd be the biggest Grinch Move, just noticed the little trip up of two key words in the sentence. "...everyone that *killed Cell*." vs "reviving everyone that *Cell killed*."
Other than that; great video, I can see your reasoning on Great Saiyaman, your gains are looking *Emaculate*, and may you, your family, and your staff all have a merry Christmas or happy Hanukkah and a safe and happy New Year.
I hate to do this to ya after you offered a correction but...*immaculate
@BJGvideos nah, call my ass out. I believe in equality, I'm not infallible
Another former teacher here.
Common core is absolutely garbage. Kids don't all learn at the same pace. Common core doesn't set up for success by turning everyone into good little robots, it stifles creative thinking and wrecks students' self-esteem if they can't grasp the concepts, which aren't built for everyone to grasp.
Federal government should stay out of education and it should be more localized. Because local teachers know what kids need more than someone in Washington does.
In fairness, Frieza's time in S3+ is so small the episode would be a TH-cam Short
I agree Great Saiyaman is peak Gohan and i am sad we never got to see more of him and Videl being the great Saiya power couple
Like how did Super never make an episode about them going on a date night and just beating up criminals as superheroes
"But I grabbed the DragonBalls" was just great.
Sharpner is simply the sassiest form of Kaiser, and it is amazing!
Finally, I'm not alone in linking his alter-ego XD
You said it best man, Great Sayaman for the win!
I just got the Waifu handbook, me and friends are planning a game with me as the DM
We have Zenoko Bard, Okami Druid, Shinryujin Battle Bride, and Human Witch (Housewife as patron)
18:49 Nat 20 line, no question
ALGORITHIM RITUAL ALGORITHIM RITUAL ALGORITHIM RITUAL ALGORITHIM RITUAL
A character I'd be really interested in watching you tackle in this series would be Askeladd from Vinland Saga.
I would recommend doing DR. Briefs at some point because, oh boy, did he have the most drastic alignment change between the two shows.
Merry Christmas!
Homeschooling is super dependent on the home school course. As a child care provider and said provider of home school courses myself, they can vary in quality. A lot.
Shall have to respectfully disagree about the Cell saga Vs Super Hero comparison. His Super Saiyan 2 transformation WAS earned. Not because 16 specifically died, but because ANYONE, at all, died because of his failures. The abridged series actually did a better job of portraying it (benefits of hindsight). His transformation was triggered by his frustration at his own reluctance to face his responsibilities, NOT by the death of some guy he'd just met. It was a payoff to the foreshadowing that been present since Gohan was first introduced. I do think that Gohan peaked in the Cell saga, though I did also enjoy the whole Great Saiyaman thing. It was nice seeing Gohan doing his own thing, for once. And the Ginyu force were awesome, so it was nice seeing Gohans PTSD being put to good use.
Now, the Super Hero movie, on the other hand, was a FANTASTIC Piccolo movie, ruined at the end by Gohan fanservice being shoehorned in. The 'Orange Piccolo' form was gained via a literal magic wish dragon and a pre-established technique that was present throughout the series: potential unlocks. Was it still an asspull? Kinda, but this is Dragon Ball. There's a lot of that. The 'Beast' form, on the other hand came out of nowhere and exists solely to milk the popularity of Gohans transformation in the Cell saga. Pure, empty fanservice (and don't get me started on Cell Max. Using Cells worst form for even more empty fanservice). The 'Beast' form had no buildup, no foreshadowing, and wasn't earned in any way. Piccolo SPECIFICALLY pointed out that Gohan had been slacking on his training and was losing his touch. It's pretty clear that all of that fanservice was tacked on at the end to prey on peoples nostalgia and sell action figures. FANTASTIC Piccolo movie, terrible ending.
Merry Christmas
Correction: Gokū and Gohan only spent about 10 months in the Room of Spirit and Time. They went out early. Also, Gohan is canonically 10 during the Cell Games.
Will you do a video about abridged Cell?
Thanks for posting
Ok but every time I hear the plug for the Waifu Handbook, all I can think about is how much I want it to work with Pathbuilder. I spend way too much of my time crafting characters in that app lol.
Gohan is a good egg
Im starting a riot if the Gohan video happens before tjevmych desired krillin video.
Next year...
Kain & Raziel...
We'll make it happen...
Finally another Great Saiya-Man fan
I mean, to be honest, we really don't know much about Videl's mother in canon other than that, she was a singer and that her name is Miguel. 🤷♂️ A video about regular Gohan can't wait for that. 🙂
Something I find is underrepresented in Gohans Media is his interactions with the likes of Bulma and Krillen.
His dads oldest friends who have been in his life since he was four.
The show doesn’t do muxh with it, but I see them as pseudo guardians and litteral one's when travelling to Namek. While neither is super responsible, Gohan furthers his martial arts training with Krillen. I would say that he sees Bulma as an authorative figure and the only person he could talk to about any kind of science.
I'm not sure if there's anything realltvthere or id thay goes fo far into fanfiction, but ah, well
Okay, thank you for defending Great Sayaman. i love that arc for him. Gohan has always been my most related to character, and the angry kid who just wants to do nerdy shit and help people coalesces during Great Sayaman. (also cute, tomboy, fighter gf Videl had me mad jealous, ngl.)
I think you are letting your biases fly a little too strong with the SSJ2 Gohan vs Great Saiyaman Gohan stance. I love the Great Saiyaman stuff and how it highlights a big part of what I love as a huge Gohan fan: the biggest Clark Kent/Peter Parker parts of his personality, the feeling of not just responsibility but genuine desire to do good with his gifts. Whether that's his Saiyan genetics and training or his big wrinkly brain.
But I'll say right now, you *cannot* have Great Saiyaman Gohan without his crashout as SSJ2 vs Cell. You even said it yourself, he was an 11 year old kid, 1 of those years being in an extradimensional space where only 1 of our days passed in comparison. He was dragged into this fight literally by his uncle as a 4 year old babby and was involved in nonstop training, beatings, and fights to the death including his own father and other parental figures for years at a kindergarten age. And like you said in the Cell fight portion, he has no control of his emotion but one thing he was sure of was his utter lack of desire to see any more death, especially ones he feels he may have been able to prevent now that, after training with Goku, he knows he's more than strong enough to compared to on Namek or when Frieza returned when he was far lower on the totem pole of power.
Which is where 16 came into play. I wish we had gotten in the main series or even in Abridged what we got in Kakarot where it was shown that Gohan helped Bulma with her repairs of 16. But even with what we got, you had a literal machine programmed to kill his father leaping in, far outclassed in power and able *and willing* to die and no chance of Shenron ex machina to bring him back for a child and people he barely knew...all without question if it meant stopping this monster who threatened life, despite 16 not even being "alive." And even when blasted to bits, wanted to still be thrown again into the fray to try to reach the person who could fight the fight he couldn't - not for pride like Vegeta or for fun like Goku but to protect life - even though he was still functioning, still could be repaired, 16 still threw himself willingly into his permanent end just to send that message...and then was crushed right before his eyes.
Gohan stood by, as if he were powerless to avoid 16 being blow up, powerless to save his father and friends from being beaten by the Cell Juniors, powerless to stop Cell from finally killing someone directly in front of him...he couldn't control his emotions, but that was the last straw. And this 11 year old kid, knowing deep down how powerful he is, could no longer reconcile feeling powerless and let the power take hold to make it end. Thus, the snap.
But, just like Goku initially on Namek, that snap twisted Gohan's instincts. Except this was the next level of Super Saiyan and in the hands of an prepubescent in the midst of a death match and shouldering about half a decade of PTSD...Gohan is a tempest of emotions now doubled. Where righteous anger was now is indignant fury. Where once was pacifist disdain was now a "necessary" hate. And where once was powerlessness to protect a life now is unmatched power to hurt. And all aimed at Cell, all of it clouding his judgment, and it taking another selfless sacrifice in his father to clear Gohan's mind and remind him of who he was. Leading to selflessly jump in to save Vegeta and finally to lock-in and stand his ground vs Cell's final attack. He would not be powerless and would stand on business to protect everyone he could.
This was a lesson Gohan needed, not acting out of impulse and anger and impotence (like what happened on Namek "fuck the stream!") but still keeping that innate desire to help and channel it in a functional way. He had that moment on Namek, a repeat of it twisted vs Cell, but it becoming a genuine learning point for him, after then 7 years of progress and maturing, to become a bonafide hero.
Love these videos
merry christmas
Help you gain the system? NEVER!
…
Wait?
I cannot help but feel if you drank more juice you would have done more pushups.
That makes no sense...
i disagree with the android 16 statement. it wasn't about whether or not gohan knew 16, it was about giving gohan the speech he needed to to unshackle himself. no one else was telling him what he needed to hear, in both versions. nobody was _REALLY_ making it make sense to him until android 16 gave him the speech that was then punctuated by his very permeate death.
Now for Krillin. Pretty sure he's neutral good.
I'd like to see one for Tanya von Degurachaff from Youjo Senki: The Saga of Tanya the Evil. I may be getting ahead of myself, but I imagine she'd at least start at Lawful Evil.
I choose to take both the blue _and_ the red pill as I say: You are a stinky buff man.
14:!4 100% could not agree more. It has always annoyed me when people say Great Saiyaman ruined Gohan. It felt like a CRIME we didn't at least get a reference to Saiyaman in the movie called "Super Hero" with Gohan as a focus. Could you imagine how satisfying it would have felt for Gohan to talk to the Gammas or Hedo about what it means to be a hero? Same for the Pride Troopers during the Tournament of Power honestly. I wish Gohan wore his Saiyaman watch to that to make the interactions he had with the Pride Troopers mean that much more. The Saiyaman outfit is something that is uniquely his, one of the few outfits he would be comfortable fighting in (probably minus the cape and head coverings), that he doesn't just take from Goku or Piccolo.
Whoo! Gohan!
I only recently found your channel, and you're rully fun. SUB!
thank you ^_^
@@TheLoadingCrew , I want that Gohan video. I was the same age as Gohan when he fought Cell (11), so at the time, of course I was fangirling over him, but as an adult, no, that's child torture, and it's not a good thing. I want to hear more on your perspective regarding his character going forward, because, from my perspective, he never really got to be the hero UNTIL Great Saiyaman. But everyone craps on that arc. So why?
I felt like this was relevant in the first video as well; but directly subverting the wishes of his mom and going along with his dad's lies should be a chaotic ding in some capacity - even if it was in the interests of saving the earth. Thats a chaotic good ding; not a lawful good!
Happy Frieza day!
What if I tell you you're stinky because you're buff?
AND CELL'S 6!!
18:48 what, no nat 20 scene?
I'm surprised that you didn't include the movies considering the fact that they're considered cannon in the abridged verse
They arnt though. Kaiser and Lani outright said the movies are NOT cannon in the commentaries
@@Mike_Kietzman have to wonder how all the movie villains ended up in HFIL though
you are stinkily buff
HORSE. EATEN.
the 16 scene I like better in abridged, because gohan clearly was put through the ringer, getting beat by cell, his dad being a moron and even in seasons 1 and 2, this was a built up explosion, 16 I see is just the final straw because it's another life loss because of his weakness
Merry cripmas
Glad I’m not the only Sayaman enjoyer. I was so disappointed when Gohan dropped the persona.
Gohan is totally Lawful Good.
What dnd alignment is jellymon, digimon ghost game
What dnd alignment is the dishonored characters
i'm gonna guess not lawful
Horse EATEN
The Dragonball Super: Super Hero movie was intended to be a Piccolo movie, but Toei made Toriyama shoehorn Gohan into it. It is one of the worst peices of media for Gohan because all it does is retread his Android/Cell Saga arc, makes him stop training (once again) despite in Super him admitting that he needs to keep up with his training and not just rely on Goku and Vegeta to handle threats, and his acquistion of his Beast form rings more hollow emotionally that Super Saiyan 2. I love Gohan, he is one of my favorite Dragonball characters, but he continuously gets mishandeled almost everytime he appears in the story, excluding Great Saiyaman. Like, I wouldn't even mind him giving up fighting to focus on being a scholar since he is more of a pacifist, but he has to accept that not doing so runs the risk of him not being strong enough to protect his loved ones, not lament it when he's getting his ass handed to him. Gohan is smart, he should have the pattern recognition to see there will always be a stronger threat that will show up one day out of the blue. Even if he believes his dad and Vegeta could handle anything that comes to Earth, they can't be everywhere at once, and worst get, the both have a track record of being fashionable late to big, important fights. It's just really annoying to see Gohan treated like this again and again.
If you or one of your long time fans could explain I'd appreciate it. Whats your metric for Lawful Good vs Neutral Good?
Can you do either tfs or canon tein?
So buff
You gonna do episodes for Warhammer TTS?
Could I suggest someone to do an alignment thing for? Roland from Library of Ruina. This character is very complex and hypocritical and might be an interesting case of lawful neutral/lawful evil/true neutral/neutral evil thats a good guy protagonist. (Or chaotic evil, its a bit weird with him.)
Why fo the dings mean lawful good instead of neutral good?
If we only get those two options, than you're Stinky :P
Can you do alignments for the Shrek characters?
shrek was actually my first video
@TheLoadingCrew Oh I must watch!
Your stink is buff!
IMO, Gohan is Lawful Good throughout most of childhood and the entirety of his adulthood through Z and Super. Which is why he only gets badass when his rage takes over, I mean the new Super Hero film, THAT is what Lawful Good looks like. (dont forget, its Lawful Good, not Lawful Nice, or Lawful Puss-Ass. Law and Morality supersede darker urges, but a Lawful Good's JOB is also to uphold righteous justice against evil, which is why in the old days, ONLY a Lawful Good could become a Paladin. Clerics heal, fighters fight, barbarians rage, Paladins Smite EVIL.)..............and get that Anti-Paladin Oathbreaker garbage outta here lol
Not giving Cell returning after blowing himself up a Nat 1 scene is criminal
In the actually show, sure, but in DBZ:A, the reprisal of Cell's "P is for Priceless" song combined with the death beam not only acting as a sudden cut to the music, but the episode too, makes the scene pretty good imo.
is calling yamu the other guy a dbza bit?
Okay
Shouldn't it be Neutral Good to train with Goku and Piccolo? He's not technically disobeying his mother because she did approve of educational trips but, Chichi's main concern was Gohan being in danger/neglecting book learning.
Sidenote: Why is Gohan learning Chinese? Shouldn't his first language be a Chinese dialect? Roshi, Ox King, Chichi, and Son Gohan(old) all wear very Chinese attire. Plus being uneducated hill folk means they shouldn't speak the common tongue.