I think the perfection Cristian talks about is also related to the nature of his dominant function Fi. Fi and Ti are all about the ideal principles behind in logic and ethics. Both are the opposites of the pragmatic and imperfect real real world functions about the same topics (Fe and Te). Fe and Te are pragmatic because in the real world perfection is not realistically achievable. Perfection is basically a theory that works on paper, but not in real life. In real life you can always try to do things in an ideal manner, but realistically you will never achieve it. The opposite problem might arise with dominant Te and Fe because they might set the standards too low. When Te creates a system that works right now, they might be too easily satisfied as long as it moves them forward. When Fe tries to make everyone feel good in the moment, that might set the bar too low too as they might still have unresolved issues inside. Consequently dominant Ti will always think Te's approach is sloppy and Te will think Ti's approach is unrealistic or just theory. Fi will always think Fe's approach is too superficial while Fe will think Fi talks about perfection, but does not achieve that much feeling/ethics related things in the real world. Ti = ideal logic (pefectionism) Fi = ideal ehtics (pefectionism) Te = pragmatic logic Fe = pragmatic ethics However, what may as well play a role is Si = perfectionistic sensory Se = pragmatic sensory
Thinking is essentially about a function. Ti is mostly concerned with whats going on inside the function. Te is concerned mostly with input to the function and output of the function.
Intps mainly dont do things because they dont have the impetus to do so not really because they have Se polar. Its also because they have low Fi and Ni. I would say infps actually do quite alot of stuff in general because of their Fi impetus. Intps have to essentially have an impetus from someone else. I.e be duty bound to act.
@@snudgegalbraith3447 I agree that INTP's do not fear the idea of them *themselves* being imperfect, due to Ti not caring about being perfect in a Fi value based sense and Fe not expecting perfectionism. However, when it comes to matters that are logical in nature, they want the logical subjects to be closer to the ideal and thus can gravitate towards doing things like nitpicking the logic or sentences of others if they do not meet their high internal Ti standards
I love this interview, so helpful to understand how the Polar function works for INPs. I hope you do a bunch of these to further our understanding for all the types!
Amazing video!! Thanks to all of you! I had actually been wondering recently how my Se blind spot manifested. It’s like you can read my mind Joyce! 😄 The “if it’s not perfect, it’s awful” resonated with me so much in all of life but certainly with my visual art projects. I recently found an artist named Melissa Dinwiddie who has a manifesto with a line about perfectionism. It says, “People see your art for what it is. You see it for what it isn’t.” I try to remind myself of this.
Yes, taking jobs where the wind takes us. I'm so surprised that I have had such interesting jobs when I have no self-direction or ambition. I still feel like the powers that be are going to figure out that I don't really know what I am doing even though I now have a lot of experience in my field as well as the necessary qualifications - imposter syndrome can be crippling.
First I was googling "I can't stay engaged with reality" to try to figure this out, then my INTP Se Polr that I only am somewhat aware of popped into my mind and I ended up here. Even after 3 mins I can tell I found the info I was searching for! Living with an Se-inferior has REALLY been a trip in the differences of our sensory and reality experience.
Spacey nailed exactly what I was alluding to, living w/ Se inferior person. I see her getting attracted to, from my perspective, what seems like just "looking at things", lol. To her, she's described how observing nature, colors, placement, and visual patterns makes her feel things (INFJ), and think about things, and all these kinds of reactions. I look at the same landscape or whatever and have about .5 seconds of 'exploration' with my eyes, but once it's consumed, I'm done. I get everything that I can in that time and am ready to move on to a new thing to explore. Sticking around with individual objects and environments just feels VERY shallow to me, and honestly starts to trigger a bit of languishing anxiety setting in at it's worst, or when I feel stuck. Definitely had to learn with trial and error that "What, it's just another tree?" is a flippant and de-valuing response! Never would have guessed before. Nothing makes my baseline mood improve more than re-decorating (moving furniture) in my house. Seeing the same stuff day in and day out just dulls my mind and my will to live, basically, lol. But the INFJwife can see the same type of flower, like, 1000 times and enjoy it every time. Kind of makes me jealous, but I love the other things my mind does so not fully! I just learned to appreciate it as a difference rather than get stuck in FOMO. I get little Si dopamine-pleasure hits sometimes when I see something like a symbol, character, or pattern again after a long time and when that recognition sets in, it makes me happy. Could be a mascot, or a cover of a book or comic, or even sometimes just a title. I have found, in the wilderness example vein used above, being able to categorize and know the names and general properties of birds and mushrooms and botany things by learning from INFJwife is very intriguing for me. Pretty sure I remember the things she tells me about that stuff for longer than she even holds onto that info. But almost never do I just appreciate the object itself very highly. For media, Cover art, overall, is a big one and I have to fight physical media hoarding tendencies due to that. (And know of many INTPs that are prolific collectors) My browser bookmarks and picture folder though......... -__- Decoding a symbol instantly because I've done it before feels like seeing a photo of an old friend to other people, I assume. So I believe I CAN understand that feeling of Se use, but with Si-3rd, at least, I find that a very ephemeral feeling that is quite fleeting. All it really does is remind me to explore for more things to foster that feeling in the future again, as soon as it wears off in a moment. But seeing a tree over and over can only do so much, since each individual tree doesn't really vary much, or even, to me, mean very much on an immediate (non-conceptual) level. But I always notice when the 'forest' changes, and always call it entering a new biome, like minecraft. City to countryside to pines to deciduous to birch to cliffs to flatlands to hills. THAT always grabs my attention on the transition, but then after it's acknowledged, I'm bored and done again. I rarely have any interest in going deeper, but an Ni-Se person seems to be all about the individual item attention and their relations to each other rather than the assumed Ne-Si axis preference for package attention. I often feel like my eyes are just SO tiny and limited, yet my mind is huge and I can view in 360degrees. I've made myself sick more than once (only a few times tho) snapping my neck back and forth so fast while traveling trying to take in more than I physically can!
Such a great video. This is my greatest struggle as an INTP to find satisfaction after 6 months of a job role or hobby. Then coming to the realization that it is insatiable appetite to learn new things will be there no matter where I am or go. Thank you for this discussion Joyce, spacey, and Christian.
@@JoyceMeng22 so true. As I have developed Ne and succeeded overcoming new challenges throughout my life, taking on new challenges becomes more addictive. It has gotten me into some trouble lately where I went through burnout in 2020 trying a challenge that was too far out of my personality. now I am the next step of my journey, to recalibrate this and that’s how I found your channel. The community you built is so inspiring. Observing the discussions with amazing people I feel apart of them as the thoughts and narrative interact.Keep it up as I look to keep engaged and learning. :)
Fascinating... I joined a new dept after 10(!) years in my previous one and I found I was very impatient, dissatisfied, and wondering if I made a bad move after almost exactly 6 months. (INTP) I've since made some changes and don't have that issue as much anymore, but it's crazy that this timeline is similar and, thinking about it, has been often in life. The worst is when something is routine now, but not easy/routine enough that I can't do a second thing at the same time. Music, podcast, video, whatever. Because then I"m just doing the same sheit over and over and over and over.... mind numbing and I often feel actual physical pain and/or brain burn whenever I've been in a situation like that. (It's what made me seek my adult ADHD diagnoses)
Christian's on the right track with his Economist name drops. I like it. For what it's worth, the economic policy that fixes everything from top to bottom; No taxes on private currencies.
I relate to the sensory overload as an intj too. What's really cool is that my infp husband has described that background processing/decompression and sounds just like what you said. I feel like I have to process more actively. He's also still convinced he doesn't lose stuff all that often... 😏 Anyways really enjoyed the conversation, especially to see Fi/Ti side by side.
I relate so much. The only times I’ve started and accomplished tangible things in the last year was because my INFJ bestie got me to do it, set me a deadline that involved other people and I would find disappointing others much more painful than not completing something. Thank universe
as for object permanence, i’m pretty good at it but only because i grew up with an SJ mother and learned to be terrified of mislaying stuff. for an INFP, i’m pretty organised. but my flat is like a bombsite 😆
37:56 I think the word you’re looking for, rather than “industrialized,” is “specialized.” I’m an INFP and I totally agree. Too much knowledge is inaccessible because of the degrees of specialization required to acquire it. Like if they’re not gonna be an expert, why bother letting them collect info about the topic? It’s silly
But the chimpanzees get the things done. Theories and feelings are great and the start of everything but in the end we need food, health, shelter, exercise, transportation. Seeing healthy and unhealthy INTPs, the healthy ones face the Se constantly. The other just find excuses.
Its more to do with sensing in general. Si can learn to build shelters and hunt. Someone with Si isnt going to just starve and freeze to death hoping someone with Se will come along and save them.
@@snudgegalbraith3447 I agree with you that every person can do things and make things happen. But since I'm Si demon, I think it is more related to things related to the inner body and the past like memory, tradition, inner sensations. I could be wrong. And Se is getting things done for fun or not, like paying the bills, going to the gym, travelling, etc. I have inf Se so I like to keep It to the minimun in general, only to what is perceived as good to keep me organized, healthy and happy. Just my thoughts
That's not how I think of them at all! Sometimes se might come off as aggressive (to me), but sometimes it just seems like (high) se users are anime heros bending reality to their wims. Like the way some of them can swerve through traffic without hitting or getting hit while I'm white-knuckle gripping my seat belt. Or, like jump from urban rooftops doing parkour, lol. (Obviously this exaggerated, but it does seem like se is PERFECT for stunts.) It's like they see reality in full HD, while I still have the Nintendo64 graphics. The ground is there to meet them, not the other way around. It's honestly fascinating to me. Also, the things they can create 🤯 Se users are generally very graceful in their environments, especially women who use se. I feel like a claymation character compared to them. If they're chimpanzees, then I probably look like a sloth fallen from the treetops to them.
@Jack Muller who said they do? Im an intp who grew up in a very rough area surrounded by criminals and drug addicts. Ive been in alot of fights and won like 98% of them.
That DGAF attitude is something that INFPs admire about INTPs. That’s one of the reasons that we like INTPs so much I think.
I could listen to Cristian all day long. He is well-spoken, nice and has calm vibe.
INFP= plays scenario in head so much that it creates paralysis due to already assuming a definite predicted outcome. Story of my life lol.
Spacey is handsome 🙊
The chad Ti
Based, never gets offended
He is :3
So is Cristian
Like his jaw right?
Well I'm single now, ladies!
@@Slippernips 😂😂😂😂 how about guys
I think the perfection Cristian talks about is also related to the nature of his dominant function Fi. Fi and Ti are all about the ideal principles behind in logic and ethics. Both are the opposites of the pragmatic and imperfect real real world functions about the same topics (Fe and Te). Fe and Te are pragmatic because in the real world perfection is not realistically achievable. Perfection is basically a theory that works on paper, but not in real life. In real life you can always try to do things in an ideal manner, but realistically you will never achieve it. The opposite problem might arise with dominant Te and Fe because they might set the standards too low. When Te creates a system that works right now, they might be too easily satisfied as long as it moves them forward. When Fe tries to make everyone feel good in the moment, that might set the bar too low too as they might still have unresolved issues inside. Consequently dominant Ti will always think Te's approach is sloppy and Te will think Ti's approach is unrealistic or just theory. Fi will always think Fe's approach is too superficial while Fe will think Fi talks about perfection, but does not achieve that much feeling/ethics related things in the real world.
Ti = ideal logic (pefectionism)
Fi = ideal ehtics (pefectionism)
Te = pragmatic logic
Fe = pragmatic ethics
However, what may as well play a role is
Si = perfectionistic sensory
Se = pragmatic sensory
Thinking is essentially about a function.
Ti is mostly concerned with whats going on inside the function. Te is concerned mostly with input to the function and output of the function.
Intps mainly dont do things because they dont have the impetus to do so not really because they have Se polar. Its also because they have low Fi and Ni. I would say infps actually do quite alot of stuff in general because of their Fi impetus. Intps have to essentially have an impetus from someone else. I.e be duty bound to act.
Or a survival situation.
Its actually a lack of selfishness that is the main factor in an intp not doing not fear of imperfection.
@@snudgegalbraith3447 I agree that INTP's do not fear the idea of them *themselves* being imperfect, due to Ti not caring about being perfect in a Fi value based sense and Fe not expecting perfectionism. However, when it comes to matters that are logical in nature, they want the logical subjects to be closer to the ideal and thus can gravitate towards doing things like nitpicking the logic or sentences of others if they do not meet their high internal Ti standards
INFP in the house!!!!! Great show!
I love this interview, so helpful to understand how the Polar function works for INPs. I hope you do a bunch of these to further our understanding for all the types!
Definitely! :) I am planning to do a blind spot function video for each of the types, stay tuned for those.
@@JoyceMeng22 Yay! Can't wait:)
Amazing video!! Thanks to all of you! I had actually been wondering recently how my Se blind spot manifested. It’s like you can read my mind Joyce! 😄
The “if it’s not perfect, it’s awful” resonated with me so much in all of life but certainly with my visual art projects. I recently found an artist named Melissa Dinwiddie who has a manifesto with a line about perfectionism. It says, “People see your art for what it is. You see it for what it isn’t.” I try to remind myself of this.
Yes, taking jobs where the wind takes us. I'm so surprised that I have had such interesting jobs when I have no self-direction or ambition. I still feel like the powers that be are going to figure out that I don't really know what I am doing even though I now have a lot of experience in my field as well as the necessary qualifications - imposter syndrome can be crippling.
First I was googling "I can't stay engaged with reality" to try to figure this out, then my INTP Se Polr that I only am somewhat aware of popped into my mind and I ended up here. Even after 3 mins I can tell I found the info I was searching for! Living with an Se-inferior has REALLY been a trip in the differences of our sensory and reality experience.
Spacey nailed exactly what I was alluding to, living w/ Se inferior person. I see her getting attracted to, from my perspective, what seems like just "looking at things", lol. To her, she's described how observing nature, colors, placement, and visual patterns makes her feel things (INFJ), and think about things, and all these kinds of reactions. I look at the same landscape or whatever and have about .5 seconds of 'exploration' with my eyes, but once it's consumed, I'm done.
I get everything that I can in that time and am ready to move on to a new thing to explore. Sticking around with individual objects and environments just feels VERY shallow to me, and honestly starts to trigger a bit of languishing anxiety setting in at it's worst, or when I feel stuck. Definitely had to learn with trial and error that "What, it's just another tree?" is a flippant and de-valuing response! Never would have guessed before.
Nothing makes my baseline mood improve more than re-decorating (moving furniture) in my house. Seeing the same stuff day in and day out just dulls my mind and my will to live, basically, lol. But the INFJwife can see the same type of flower, like, 1000 times and enjoy it every time. Kind of makes me jealous, but I love the other things my mind does so not fully! I just learned to appreciate it as a difference rather than get stuck in FOMO.
I get little Si dopamine-pleasure hits sometimes when I see something like a symbol, character, or pattern again after a long time and when that recognition sets in, it makes me happy. Could be a mascot, or a cover of a book or comic, or even sometimes just a title. I have found, in the wilderness example vein used above, being able to categorize and know the names and general properties of birds and mushrooms and botany things by learning from INFJwife is very intriguing for me. Pretty sure I remember the things she tells me about that stuff for longer than she even holds onto that info. But almost never do I just appreciate the object itself very highly.
For media, Cover art, overall, is a big one and I have to fight physical media hoarding tendencies due to that. (And know of many INTPs that are prolific collectors) My browser bookmarks and picture folder though......... -__-
Decoding a symbol instantly because I've done it before feels like seeing a photo of an old friend to other people, I assume. So I believe I CAN understand that feeling of Se use, but with Si-3rd, at least, I find that a very ephemeral feeling that is quite fleeting. All it really does is remind me to explore for more things to foster that feeling in the future again, as soon as it wears off in a moment.
But seeing a tree over and over can only do so much, since each individual tree doesn't really vary much, or even, to me, mean very much on an immediate (non-conceptual) level. But I always notice when the 'forest' changes, and always call it entering a new biome, like minecraft. City to countryside to pines to deciduous to birch to cliffs to flatlands to hills. THAT always grabs my attention on the transition, but then after it's acknowledged, I'm bored and done again. I rarely have any interest in going deeper, but an Ni-Se person seems to be all about the individual item attention and their relations to each other rather than the assumed Ne-Si axis preference for package attention.
I often feel like my eyes are just SO tiny and limited, yet my mind is huge and I can view in 360degrees. I've made myself sick more than once (only a few times tho) snapping my neck back and forth so fast while traveling trying to take in more than I physically can!
lack of practical common sense. nailed it right there
Thanks so much Joyce, Spacey and Christian. This discussion is very helpful in understanding my behavior and so be more forgiving of myself,
INFPs make me feel safe.
I loved this talk so much and Cristian, you did a great job!
Spacey jingles change during his intro, demonstrating Se PoLR. 😆
Hey there buddy :)
@@Slippernips what's up, homey?
Such a great video.
This is my greatest struggle as an INTP to find satisfaction after 6 months of a job role or hobby. Then coming to the realization that it is insatiable appetite to learn new things will be there no matter where I am or go.
Thank you for this discussion Joyce, spacey, and Christian.
Thank you for sharing your experience! The Ne user is a true multipotentialite or dilettante. =]
@@JoyceMeng22 so true. As I have developed Ne and succeeded overcoming new challenges throughout my life, taking on new challenges becomes more addictive. It has gotten me into some trouble lately where I went through burnout in 2020 trying a challenge that was too far out of my personality. now I am the next step of my journey, to recalibrate this and that’s how I found your channel.
The community you built is so inspiring. Observing the discussions with amazing people I feel apart of them as the thoughts and narrative interact.Keep it up as I look to keep engaged and learning. :)
Fascinating... I joined a new dept after 10(!) years in my previous one and I found I was very impatient, dissatisfied, and wondering if I made a bad move after almost exactly 6 months. (INTP)
I've since made some changes and don't have that issue as much anymore, but it's crazy that this timeline is similar and, thinking about it, has been often in life. The worst is when something is routine now, but not easy/routine enough that I can't do a second thing at the same time. Music, podcast, video, whatever. Because then I"m just doing the same sheit over and over and over and over.... mind numbing and I often feel actual physical pain and/or brain burn whenever I've been in a situation like that. (It's what made me seek my adult ADHD diagnoses)
Christian's on the right track with his Economist name drops. I like it. For what it's worth, the economic policy that fixes everything from top to bottom; No taxes on private currencies.
I relate to the sensory overload as an intj too. What's really cool is that my infp husband has described that background processing/decompression and sounds just like what you said. I feel like I have to process more actively. He's also still convinced he doesn't lose stuff all that often... 😏 Anyways really enjoyed the conversation, especially to see Fi/Ti side by side.
I relate so much. The only times I’ve started and accomplished tangible things in the last year was because my INFJ bestie got me to do it, set me a deadline that involved other people and I would find disappointing others much more painful than not completing something. Thank universe
This was so interesting, like being in a conversation with some friends. It was very honest, too.
Everything they're saying is so spot on
Can relate to Christian I have ADHD too! I'm pretty sure of it. It is difficult to pay attention to the environment.
Wow. I can totally relate to all of this. NP's are my people.
“I’ve got two eyes for looking 👀 but one eye 👁️ to see” 🤣🤣🤣🤣
This was great
we need UBI so we can do what we’re made to do - daydream and philosophise and create. the ExxJs can put our dreams into action.
as for object permanence, i’m pretty good at it but only because i grew up with an SJ mother and learned to be terrified of mislaying stuff. for an INFP, i’m pretty organised. but my flat is like a bombsite 😆
I loveddd this video so much btw. Thank you!
JOYCE WHEN YOU SAID LACK OF COMMON SENSE 😂😂🎯🔪🔪
“ Laziness comes from fear “ call me out why dont you
37:56 I think the word you’re looking for, rather than “industrialized,” is “specialized.” I’m an INFP and I totally agree. Too much knowledge is inaccessible because of the degrees of specialization required to acquire it. Like if they’re not gonna be an expert, why bother letting them collect info about the topic? It’s silly
I can relate to both a lot about this Se-matter! :)
This is so relatable and I learned a lot 😃
How old are Spacy and Cristian? Age plays a big role in how these types will show up in reality.
More socionic videos 👍🏻
I like the intro song. Is it new or am i inattentive?
You did not pay attention ig.
it’s your Se PoLR 😂
@@PowerRedBullTypology i am well aware of Taylor’s functions, joke spoiler 😂
@@AS-jq4lb got me
But how Lii and 9w1 possible?
No, only social 6 and, in some cases (rare), self preservation 6.
😊
Dominant Se = Mussolini
Tertiary Se = Trump
Aspiratinal Se = Hitler
Auxiliary Se = Rihanna
@Vashón Thinks exactly.
What Se polar is really about is looking at people with Se with curiosity like "damn so yall are actually chimpanzees huh"
But the chimpanzees get the things done. Theories and feelings are great and the start of everything but in the end we need food, health, shelter, exercise, transportation. Seeing healthy and unhealthy INTPs, the healthy ones face the Se constantly. The other just find excuses.
@Ey Niit yes sir. Although im not sure that "doing" is entirely "Se".
Its more to do with sensing in general. Si can learn to build shelters and hunt. Someone with Si isnt going to just starve and freeze to death hoping someone with Se will come along and save them.
@@snudgegalbraith3447 I agree with you that every person can do things and make things happen. But since I'm Si demon, I think it is more related to things related to the inner body and the past like memory, tradition, inner sensations. I could be wrong. And Se is getting things done for fun or not, like paying the bills, going to the gym, travelling, etc. I have inf Se so I like to keep It to the minimun in general, only to what is perceived as good to keep me organized, healthy and happy. Just my thoughts
That's not how I think of them at all! Sometimes se might come off as aggressive (to me), but sometimes it just seems like (high) se users are anime heros bending reality to their wims. Like the way some of them can swerve through traffic without hitting or getting hit while I'm white-knuckle gripping my seat belt. Or, like jump from urban rooftops doing parkour, lol. (Obviously this exaggerated, but it does seem like se is PERFECT for stunts.) It's like they see reality in full HD, while I still have the Nintendo64 graphics. The ground is there to meet them, not the other way around. It's honestly fascinating to me.
Also, the things they can create 🤯 Se users are generally very graceful in their environments, especially women who use se. I feel like a claymation character compared to them.
If they're chimpanzees, then I probably look like a sloth fallen from the treetops to them.
2 inxps who have never been in a fight
Next video should be about inxps who havent over dosed on soy.
@Jack Muller you wanna throw hands bro?
@Jack Muller i'll beat the dictator out of you boayyyyy
@Jack Muller who said they do? Im an intp who grew up in a very rough area surrounded by criminals and drug addicts. Ive been in alot of fights and won like 98% of them.
@Jack Muller only really had my ass kicked properly like once but there was 3 of them (Se users).