Adrian, nice to see you in some of these videos by yourself. I completely agree with you about Eva Cassidy, she left us too early. If you want a treat, listen to her sing "wayfaring stranger".
Ya, not surprising MSB is minimum 2 levels up on PS Audio as a manufacturer but then again the prices reflect that. The real question is whether the new Directstream Mk II at $8K is indeed the best DAC under $10K.
The T + A Dac 200 has been universally praised. It's only $7100. Some think it's better than DACs twice that price. Please do a comparison between it and the PS Audio and MSB Discrete DACs.
Also, a few people who are in the know about such things, claim that the base model Aries Cerat Kassandra DAC and the Playback Designs MPD-8 DAC can compete with the best/most expensive DACs in the world ($100k+), despite each costing less than $30k. Have you heard these, and if so what is your opinion?
@@Hubbman32I have the Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE and wondering what might outperform it significantly? That said, can you describe what you like more about the T+A 200 over the Spring 3 KTE that you replaced? Thanks!
@@adrianlow2114 Very deserving Adrian... Ive learned so Much!!!... took an attempt at Humor on your last Video... Have Since Deleted..... Look forward to To your Next Teams Vide0!!! Very Much So....
Adrian, Great to hear to talk about Eva Cassidy in such depth! I wholeheartedly agree with every word you said. She’s an AMAZING singer! Way better than many who are much more famous! Hope others also discover this hidden gem!!
Me too! I actually live pretty close to thier old "office" location in CA, so I drove there to pick up the DAC. I swear the place was in a redwood forest and looked just like where the eWoks lived in that Star Wars film... They have since grown up into the company they are today... amazing.
Was the PS Audio DSD Mk2 tested with its ground connections lifted to improve its galvanic isolation? It makes a huge difference in the noise floor and detail.
Hey, great review/comparison! Wondering if you have had a chance to hear the T+A DAC 200? I just picked one up and I'm absolutley blown away and I would love to hear what you think....
I demoed the DCS Barkok 2 years ago and thought it was very good then shortly after enquired about the Mola Mola Tambaqui. The dealer also brought along the MSB Descrete as a comparison however after hearing the Tambaqui the MSB just sounded right in terms of being natural and organic. Bought the Descrete which I have been delighted with plus added the 2nd PSU which made a surprising difference. Since then I have upgraded a number of components and my system is sounding truly incredible. Just wondered your thoughts on speaker isolation , I have a pair of Avalon PM1’s and looking at Stillpoints etc?
2 schools of thought; both seem to have their benefits. With Wilson, I prefer spiking. Perhaps it's due to the inherent hardness of the enclosures. With MDF enclosures, (most speakers), the Isoacoustics work really well
Update since this I have updated my MSB to a Ideon Ion which to be honest is in another league all together. My dealer last year went to the Munich show and called me saying he had something really special I should listen to, brought round both the Ion and Absolute and was blown away by it. I would conservatively say it’s at least 20% plus better in every way especially sound stage and organic clarity. To put it into context a number of his customers who he has sold both the Reference and Select have all traded them in for the Ideon Absolute it’s that incredible which when you consider it’s less than half the price of the select is amazing. Ideon clearly are doing something different with their USB technology as both DCS & MSB aren’t even close .
Such great music around back in the day Doug and to think this was regarded as just pop music but it's so much better than much of the dross that charts today and forgotten tomorrow. How's about your take a dive into China Crisis? Have listen to the Album "Flaunt The Imperfection" This is a beautifully melodic new romantic piece that benefits by being produced by the late great Walter Becker. Thanks for your work Doug.
Nice to have this comparison, but with USB option the MSB is more like double the price of the MKII. I am loving my MKII via optical USB. I'm having mine upgraded with a custom designed output transformer ($750) that is supposed to make the MKII sound twice as good as stock. Plus hopefully Ted will pull some additional sonics using the second FPGA chip for different tasks. I'm curious as to what kind of analog output section the MSB has.
Great review! Here’s what another guy found listening to the two dacs. . “75hrs burned in ds mk2 vs 1000hrs burned in with twin discrete psu, me and my friend both had to decide the fate of ds mk2. Sorry to disappoint many of you… who thought msb is the way to go , Unbelievably ps ds mk2 bettered msb discrete on every possible way . Specially in imaging and resolutions”
Hi Adrian, nice review thanks. You inspired me, using a MK II after your video I wanted to test a Discrete at home. The Italian importer gave me a Premier with Powerbase to test, and I’m liking it so much. Decisions, decisions, decisions. Having also a PS Audio Transport unfortunately with MSB DACs I wouldn’t play anymore SACDs, mmm. Anyhow red book CDs sound superb. My question is: which is the best XLR AES/EBU cable in your opinion to connect the PS Audio Transport to the MSB DACs? Thanks.
Very musical ! What are the design parameters to achive this. You have been effected by the placebo effect. Its nothing to be ashamed of, i suffered with it also. It takes a lot to overcome it. Work at it, and you will eventually succeed.
What a coincidence. Just 30 minutes ago I finished setting up my new DAC that takes the optical audio output from my 65" Sony Bravia TV and feeds my integrated amp on my stereo system (my amp doesn't have HDMI input). The sound is way better than the previous line-level audio output from my TV into my integrated amp. In addition to the TV audio, I also tried running Tidal app on my TV through my new DAC and it sounds tremendous. The soundstage is 50 feet wide and 25 feet high. The background is so black that I had to install brighter light bulbs for the room. The DAC I bought was the Schiit Audio Modi+ that cost $129 USD (plus shipping and tax).
Hey Adrian… Didn’t have the chance it audition MSB DAC… how does it compare to the DCS Bartok which I recently picked up within the last year? Both clearly Target the same buyers/market in HiFi… look forward to hearing your thoughts
I had both for a while (Bartok 2.0 non-Apex) and kept the MSB. To my ears, DCS sounds more live and real, but MSB more cohesive and musical with better flow. With DCS, instruments sound more discrete (hehe) and occupy their own space, almost distractingly so. With MSB the sounds project out into the room more with more extended decay. The kicker is that I compared them when I only had one power supply with the Discrete. After I sold the Bartok I added a second power supply and the difference was shocking. Considerably larger soundstage, detail, and presence. If I were to compare the two today I don't think there's any way I would go with Bartok. But that's my system and my taste. Some people find the MSB sound to be dull. Kinda like tubes vs SS.
Very interesting video. After your comment on how hard it is keeping the PS MK2 in stock, I wonder how many hours the review sample had. I’m sure you are very aware of the major sonic changes this DAC is known for in its first 500 hours or so.
Its interesting because the DS Mk1 is FPGA which means it cant really be 'outdated' like some chip or op amp dacs. DCS uses FPGA as well. At the price point of the used MK1 (I paid $2000 CAD) its a tough sell to upgrade to the Mk2.
I just bought a Topping E50…and it sounds pretty damn nice. Tho I appreciate the high dollar gear ..short of a large lottery win..they’re pipe dreams for the vast majority of us
Back in the mid-90's the The Adcom GDA 600 DAC for $750 buried the Levinson NO.36 DAC ($4000) Theta GEN 5A DAC ($5500) Wadia 850 CD Player ($5000) and matched the BAT Tube CD Player $4500. So price is not always an indicator of great performance. (I bet your Topping will compete rather well in a blind test).
@@carminedesanto6746 A regular wall wart plugged into a moderately priced power conditioner also works fine. A lot depends on the quality of power for each specific home, which varies wildly depending on the electrical utility company equipment feeding your home, and also the quality of the house wiring.
This isn't a sensible comparison, why waste your time with it? MSB flies in a completely different orbit to PS Audio. For starters, MSB works properly.
That Nutcracker Suite recording is good, even excellent for its time, obviously expensively produced but nothing spectacular by today's standards of classical music recordings with regards to matters like noise, dynamics etc. How can one proclaim things like 'blacker background' with the clearly audible high level of tape noise (and static?) inherent in this late fifties recording or any other recording of its time beats me. (I can't believe any of these 2 dacs masks this noise because if it did it would be worthless.)
I think they use LED's. "Equipped with high-visibility and a wide viewing angle, the display is both easy-to-read and stunning. This attention to detail exhibits our love for functional and intuitive features. The LED display, slaved to the audio clock, is refreshed between data processing to drastically reduce electrical interference. The in-house discrete design is then enclosed into its own shielded CNC pocket for optimal isolation."
Aqua La Scala MKII Optologic Dac or Dicrete msb DAC or Linn Klimax DSM streamer w/ upgraded Organik dac & Utopik power supply ...❓anyone❓does this channel reply to comments❓
Those who purchased the PS Audio Directstream mk11 will be laughing all the way to bank, especially as PS Audio start to release software/firmware updates.
There’s no comparison with MSB Technology DACs . They (msb) are quality products and great after sales service. -psaudio has quality issues . I know I have been there 😢
Great review, as always. Eva Cassidy is one of my favorite artists, although on vinyl. The 45rpm version of Fields of Gold is breathtaking.
Glad you like her also
Adrian, nice to see you in some of these videos by yourself. I completely agree with you about Eva Cassidy, she left us too early. If you want a treat, listen to her sing "wayfaring stranger".
agreed
Ya, not surprising MSB is minimum 2 levels up on PS Audio as a manufacturer but then again the prices reflect that. The real question is whether the new Directstream Mk II at $8K is indeed the best DAC under $10K.
Can't say I've auditioned EVERY DAC under $10,000, but I have heard many of the contenders. Overall I like the PS myself
The T + A Dac 200 has been universally praised. It's only $7100. Some think it's better than DACs twice that price. Please do a comparison between it and the PS Audio and MSB Discrete DACs.
Also, a few people who are in the know about such things, claim that the base model Aries Cerat Kassandra DAC and the Playback Designs MPD-8 DAC can compete with the best/most expensive DACs in the world ($100k+), despite each costing less than $30k. Have you heard these, and if so what is your opinion?
I would also throw in the Meitner MA-3 in a sub-$10k comparison.
I've had my T+A DAC 200 for about two weeks now and its absolutly amazing! It replaced the Holo Audio Spring DAC 3 KTE. Sold the Holo ASAP.
@@Hubbman32 T+A is about twice the price of Spring 3 kte, so it should be better. Fair comparison would be Holo May KTE.
@@Hubbman32I have the Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE and wondering what might outperform it significantly? That said, can you describe what you like more about the T+A 200 over the Spring 3 KTE that you replaced? Thanks!
This Gentleman...Simply Oozes Integrity!!! Im Thankful!!!.... Hard to Come by These Days......
✌✌✌🌍🌎🌏✌✌✌
Thanks for the kind words
@@adrianlow2114 Very deserving Adrian... Ive learned so Much!!!... took an attempt at Humor on your last Video... Have Since Deleted..... Look forward to To your Next Teams Vide0!!! Very Much So....
@@johnanderson8096 Thanks!
I love your videos since it allows me to discover new music
I agree, Eva is amazing. Very sweet juvenile voice. I really like her interpretation of "Tall trees in Georgia". A shame she is no longer with us.
Hi Adrian. Another great video. If you have heard, any feedback on the Meitner MA3 and T+A DAC 200 in comparison to the PS Audio or even the MSB?
I've only heard the T+A SDV3100 Streamer/DAC. It was very good but did not have a chance to compare it before we sold it
Nice to see you alone do a video, not dumbed down, refreshing.
Thanks
Adrian, Great to hear to talk about Eva Cassidy in such depth! I wholeheartedly agree with every word you said. She’s an AMAZING singer! Way better than many who are much more famous!
Hope others also discover this hidden gem!!
I had the opportunity to home demo the Discrete with its ProISL ... LOVE IT! Gotta get a 2nd and 3rd job.
My very first DAC was the MSB Link DAC around 1999. Amazed when I first heard it.
I remember that dac!
Me too! I actually live pretty close to thier old "office" location in CA, so I drove there to pick up the DAC. I swear the place was in a redwood forest and looked just like where the eWoks lived in that Star Wars film... They have since grown up into the company they are today... amazing.
@@Hubbman32 Cool!
Holo May KTE at $5K is unbeatable on value. The R2R dac is amazing. I upgraded to MSB Reference, but if I have less than $10k Holo May would be it
Musician Aquarius gives Holo May KTE a run for its money, using a better (OCXO) clock for starters.
@@connorduke4619 maybe the Spring...
@@mesonto Spring has an even weaker clock and lacks bass definition. Aquarius beats it resoundingly and on some parameters also beats May.
@@connorduke4619 yea, parameters aside, thought the Spring and Aquarius were pretty even in sound quality.
@@mesonto Have you A-B'd them?
Was the PS Audio DSD Mk2 tested with its ground connections lifted to improve its galvanic isolation? It makes a huge difference in the noise floor and detail.
Yes
Hey, great review/comparison! Wondering if you have had a chance to hear the T+A DAC 200? I just picked one up and I'm absolutley blown away and I would love to hear what you think....
I demoed the DCS Barkok 2 years ago and thought it was very good then shortly after enquired about the Mola Mola Tambaqui. The dealer also brought along the MSB Descrete as a comparison however after hearing the Tambaqui the MSB just sounded right in terms of being natural and organic. Bought the Descrete which I have been delighted with plus added the 2nd PSU which made a surprising difference. Since then I have upgraded a number of components and my system is sounding truly incredible. Just wondered your thoughts on speaker isolation , I have a pair of Avalon PM1’s and looking at Stillpoints etc?
2 schools of thought; both seem to have their benefits. With Wilson, I prefer spiking. Perhaps it's due to the inherent hardness of the enclosures. With MDF enclosures, (most speakers), the Isoacoustics work really well
Speaker isolation. Townshend is the high end brand for high end speaker upgrade.... More than twice the performance of competitors
I wonder where the Playback Designs DAC sits in this company?
Update since this I have updated my MSB to a Ideon Ion which to be honest is in another league all together. My dealer last year went to the Munich show and called me saying he had something really special I should listen to, brought round both the Ion and Absolute and was blown away by it. I would conservatively say it’s at least 20% plus better in every way especially sound stage and organic clarity. To put it into context a number of his customers who he has sold both the Reference and Select have all traded them in for the Ideon Absolute it’s that incredible which when you consider it’s less than half the price of the select is amazing. Ideon clearly are doing something different with their USB technology as both DCS & MSB aren’t even close .
How big of a step up is moving from dual power supplies to the premier supply with the MSB discrete?
The premier dac is outside of my price point
Very interesting review? Did you try it with a disc transport? I wonder how the MSB would pair with the PS Audio transport?
Such great music around back in the day Doug and to think this was regarded as just pop music but it's so much better than much of the dross that charts today and forgotten tomorrow. How's about your take a dive into China Crisis? Have listen to the Album "Flaunt The Imperfection" This is a beautifully melodic new romantic piece that benefits by being produced by the late great Walter Becker. Thanks for your work Doug.
Nice to have this comparison, but with USB option the MSB is more like double the price of the MKII. I am loving my MKII via optical USB. I'm having mine upgraded with a custom designed output transformer ($750) that is supposed to make the MKII sound twice as good as stock. Plus hopefully Ted will pull some additional sonics using the second FPGA chip for different tasks. I'm curious as to what kind of analog output section the MSB has.
Had my DSD MKI upgraded with the custom nickel transformers and VOCM caps. Unbeatable performance for the money.
How does it compare to the new McIntosh DAC/CDPlayer
Will try to do a comparison soon
Great review! Here’s what another guy found listening to the two dacs. .
“75hrs burned in ds mk2 vs 1000hrs burned in with twin discrete psu, me and my friend both had to decide the fate of ds mk2.
Sorry to disappoint many of you… who thought msb is the way to go ,
Unbelievably ps ds mk2 bettered msb discrete on every possible way . Specially in imaging and resolutions”
Hi Adrian, nice review thanks. You inspired me, using a MK II after your video I wanted to test a Discrete at home. The Italian importer gave me a Premier with Powerbase to test, and I’m liking it so much. Decisions, decisions, decisions. Having also a PS Audio Transport unfortunately with MSB DACs I wouldn’t play anymore SACDs, mmm. Anyhow red book CDs sound superb. My question is: which is the best XLR AES/EBU cable in your opinion to connect the PS Audio Transport to the MSB DACs? Thanks.
Why don’t you just listen to each and decide?
@@JingoLoBa57 Thanks, being a pretty old message, I’m definitely done. I went for the Premiere and Sablon AES/EBU XLR.
Eva Cassidy was amazing I’ve always loved her voice, I’ve ever album she has brought out
Good for you!
@@adrianlow2114funny man 🤣🤣🤣
Very musical ! What are the design parameters to achive this. You have been effected by the placebo effect. Its nothing to be ashamed of, i suffered with it also. It takes a lot to overcome it. Work at it, and you will eventually succeed.
The two chassis DAC is the premier or reference I think in MSB lineup
What a coincidence. Just 30 minutes ago I finished setting up my new DAC that takes the optical audio output from my 65" Sony Bravia TV and feeds my integrated amp on my stereo system (my amp doesn't have HDMI input). The sound is way better than the previous line-level audio output from my TV into my integrated amp. In addition to the TV audio, I also tried running Tidal app on my TV through my new DAC and it sounds tremendous. The soundstage is 50 feet wide and 25 feet high. The background is so black that I had to install brighter light bulbs for the room. The DAC I bought was the Schiit Audio Modi+ that cost $129 USD (plus shipping and tax).
How about comparing these two with weiss and dcs lina! Would love to see that in this price range.
Hey Adrian… Didn’t have the chance it audition MSB DAC… how does it compare to the DCS Bartok which I recently picked up within the last year? Both clearly Target the same buyers/market in HiFi… look forward to hearing your thoughts
I had both for a while (Bartok 2.0 non-Apex) and kept the MSB. To my ears, DCS sounds more live and real, but MSB more cohesive and musical with better flow. With DCS, instruments sound more discrete (hehe) and occupy their own space, almost distractingly so. With MSB the sounds project out into the room more with more extended decay.
The kicker is that I compared them when I only had one power supply with the Discrete. After I sold the Bartok I added a second power supply and the difference was shocking. Considerably larger soundstage, detail, and presence. If I were to compare the two today I don't think there's any way I would go with Bartok. But that's my system and my taste. Some people find the MSB sound to be dull. Kinda like tubes vs SS.
Very interesting video. After your comment on how hard it is keeping the PS MK2 in stock, I wonder how many hours the review sample had. I’m sure you are very aware of the major sonic changes this DAC is known for in its first 500 hours or so.
It's not at 500 hours but certainly over 200.
I have had lots of dacs. None of them had any noticeable changes. If there are major changes I would suspect a defect.
Its interesting because the DS Mk1 is FPGA which means it cant really be 'outdated' like some chip or op amp dacs. DCS uses FPGA as well. At the price point of the used MK1 (I paid $2000 CAD) its a tough sell to upgrade to the Mk2.
I just bought a Topping E50…and it sounds pretty damn nice.
Tho I appreciate the high dollar gear ..short of a large lottery win..they’re pipe dreams for the vast majority of us
Back in the mid-90's the The Adcom GDA 600 DAC for $750 buried the Levinson NO.36 DAC ($4000) Theta GEN 5A DAC ($5500) Wadia 850 CD Player ($5000) and matched the BAT Tube CD Player $4500. So price is not always an indicator of great performance. (I bet your Topping will compete rather well in a blind test).
@@stevemd8947 Just adding an IFI power supply to give it a little more cleaner performance.
Time and tide marches on .
Take care and Happy Easter 🐣
@@carminedesanto6746 And a very Happy Easter to you.
@@carminedesanto6746 A regular wall wart plugged into a moderately priced power conditioner also works fine. A lot depends on the quality of power for each specific home, which varies wildly depending on the electrical utility company equipment feeding your home, and also the quality of the house wiring.
@@Mark-rw3kw I went for an IFI 5v wall wart😁
Have a great Easter 🐣
How does one connect the DSD layer to the MSB? (I mean optical discs)
Google “the break out box” which is special hardware that will accept the hdmi from an SACD player and strip the DSD layer from SACD
@@travisylvania6730 - I’ll check it out…
I’m assuming MSB doesn’t sell a transport as PS Audio does , then?
@@mikewinburn They used to, they don't any more.
This isn't a sensible comparison, why waste your time with it? MSB flies in a completely different orbit to PS Audio. For starters, MSB works properly.
That Nutcracker Suite recording is good, even excellent for its time, obviously expensively produced but nothing spectacular by today's standards of classical music recordings with regards to matters like noise, dynamics etc. How can one proclaim things like 'blacker background' with the clearly audible high level of tape noise (and static?) inherent in this late fifties recording or any other recording of its time beats me. (I can't believe any of these 2 dacs masks this noise because if it did it would be worthless.)
nice review
For the price MSB is asking they should include a better display. I hope it’s the refresh rate on your camera, but that looks like a Dollar Store lcd.
I think they use LED's. "Equipped with high-visibility and a wide viewing angle, the display is both easy-to-read and stunning. This attention to detail exhibits our love for functional and intuitive features. The LED display, slaved to the audio clock, is refreshed between data processing to drastically reduce electrical interference. The in-house discrete design is then enclosed into its own shielded CNC pocket for optimal isolation."
Paul at PS Audio is overjoyed.
Aqua La Scala MKII
Optologic Dac or Dicrete msb DAC or Linn Klimax DSM streamer w/ upgraded Organik dac & Utopik power supply ...❓anyone❓does this channel reply to comments❓
if you look inside the two and compare the two, ps audio's looks much cheaper made inside!
Those who purchased the PS Audio Directstream mk11 will be laughing all the way to bank, especially as PS Audio start to release software/firmware updates.
There’s no comparison with MSB Technology DACs . They (msb) are quality products and great after sales service. -psaudio has quality issues . I know I have been there 😢
You're right. MSB is quality. PS Audio is mid-fi junk.
I bet the Aqua Formula DAC beats the soud quality of the MSB Discrete...❓
The MSB should be better at the pricetag! 4.000US/$ more...
Hmm, what about the T + A Dac 200?
See my reply above
hmmm
Hi Do you need me to buy you some new jeans lol😅
😂
@@torchbox if you buy one of the two dacs, he can buy them himself 🥳
Very kind of you but I like my jeans
Better than DSD bold claim... 👏
"Better than DSD" - did Adrian play any DSD recordings?
@@TheDanEdwards i meant direct stream DAC. I hope he did... play some DSD files as well...
Far east Asian ears, hear things differently to western ears IME
Silence like a cancer grows.....
PS Audio = PoS Audio?
MSB = Makes Steak Burritos?
wow this guy is aging fast