What Todd said about boss blinking to center also affects casters. I always get so pissed every time my cast is canceled because the boss teleported behind me.
Boss movement was something both tanks and melees had to worry about tbh. so it being really depends on if as a melee or tank player you find it engaging to deal with the boss teleporting to the middle or not. Tanks generally keep the boss facing north for mechanics and for positionals. Example: tank busters get fired north in P8S, and do lines straight behind the tank. A second example is DSR you would align tanks north so towers and exaflares are where the group expects them to spawn. (they spawn boss relative to where hes facing. NW/NE/South). Removing the aspect of boss positioning removes the "minigame" for tanks and also the melees going for positionals. I've heard a lot of tanks say they wish they had to move the boss around more instead of the boss just teleporting around the room or being a wall boss. In that same sense, a lot of melee feel rewarded for timing their "greed" bettter, so their true north can be used efficiently and they end up never losing a positional in a fight. When I go from caster to melee, I can tell my true north usage is not that great because I end up losing a positional on some mechanics. I don't personally enjoy this minigame as a melee, but i can see why tanks and melees do enjoy it.
I think people keep missing one of the major reasons why this tier is seen as easier. The devs didn't want to nerf PCT, so they buffed pretty much every other job and didn't have time to rebalance savage.
@@cutejustice Maybe you didn't see why Helldivers 2 fell off last year. You should search that up to understand why. If nerfing one enjoyable and overpowered aspect of the game fixes things, it earns playerbase ire more than buffing other jobs.
@@wingzer012 a good handful of 14 players have agreed that picto is overtuned. Yoshi P just saying that picto was overtuned and they would like to bring it in line with the other jobs is not a death wish.
As someone who's mained MNK for my melee since HW, I found the removal of positionals to be a sad thing. While I understand it, further removal would take away from some of the skill floor of jobs that are already pretty low to begin with now.
The positional were always meant to be part of the exchange for getting slightly higher DPS compared to the ranged jobs. It gives those jobs a lower floor, but also a higher ceiling.
10:00 you nailed it garrett, the developers have basically been manufacturing consent to remove friction like positionals. the correct response for players that don’t want to deal with positional mechanics, however, is to play melee jobs with fewer positionals or no melee jobs at all, not ask for the system to be removed entirely. not everything has to be, or should be, for everyone
As an old FF fan (my av is Emereald Weapon ffs) I played the game happily for 18 months doing the MSQ and unlocking various duties but I hit "caught up" about halfway into Endwalker. Savage is not fun, and wondering if I just never enjoyed raiding I went back to wow to try raiding there and enjoyed it a lot more. I spend more months subbed to FF14 still because of the social aspect and just keeping my house, but I don't like savage. They need a mode between the long slow telegraphs and heavy tutorial phases of the normal fights without the uber-precision and OHKO wiping of savage.
My own belief is that the hardest content should be 8 or 4 man. The chaotic raid is NOT midcore, absolutely not. Maybe mechanically its midcore, but because its a 24 man, its above hardcore. Chaotic is definitely above Savage. The coordination required for 24 man raids which have BODY checks all over the place is insane.
Llamatodd is right, positionals are an outdated concept. Its far more interesting to just force melee to move around through boss mechanics if the idea is that they must be 'punished'.
Positionals are the only thing left that differentiates melee DPS from everyone else. The DPS difference between hitting and missing positionals isn't enough to matter in most of the game's content, but is a very fun high level optimisation for high end raiders or people who get joy from hyperoptimisation. But the game is rapidly moving away from job heterogeneity so obviously they're gonna be gone by the next expansion
they are fun to play right now i switched back to rdm during savage prog and cleared everything just fine without the picto, the game is balanced well enough just play what you enjoy and stop looking at dps charts when the only check you need is the bosses hp if its 0 you did good nothing else should matter after that
What Todd said about boss blinking to center also affects casters.
I always get so pissed every time my cast is canceled because the boss teleported behind me.
I feel like if you play caster without auto turn enabled you're playing at a huge disadvantage.
@@ZephWraen even with auto turn it cancels its I just go in the habit of standing so I only has to turn a bit if I know the boss is going to move
Boss movement was something both tanks and melees had to worry about tbh. so it being really depends on if as a melee or tank player you find it engaging to deal with the boss teleporting to the middle or not. Tanks generally keep the boss facing north for mechanics and for positionals. Example: tank busters get fired north in P8S, and do lines straight behind the tank. A second example is DSR you would align tanks north so towers and exaflares are where the group expects them to spawn. (they spawn boss relative to where hes facing. NW/NE/South). Removing the aspect of boss positioning removes the "minigame" for tanks and also the melees going for positionals. I've heard a lot of tanks say they wish they had to move the boss around more instead of the boss just teleporting around the room or being a wall boss. In that same sense, a lot of melee feel rewarded for timing their "greed" bettter, so their true north can be used efficiently and they end up never losing a positional in a fight. When I go from caster to melee, I can tell my true north usage is not that great because I end up losing a positional on some mechanics. I don't personally enjoy this minigame as a melee, but i can see why tanks and melees do enjoy it.
I think people keep missing one of the major reasons why this tier is seen as easier. The devs didn't want to nerf PCT, so they buffed pretty much every other job and didn't have time to rebalance savage.
You would think they could just nerf picto, the 1 job.. I don’t understand their line of thinking.
@@cutejustice and piss off the PCT players, bad idea.
@@cutejustice Maybe you didn't see why Helldivers 2 fell off last year. You should search that up to understand why. If nerfing one enjoyable and overpowered aspect of the game fixes things, it earns playerbase ire more than buffing other jobs.
@@cutejustice Buffing feels good, nerfing feels bad, even if both have the same net effect.
The issue is the raids didn't get a buff in line.
@@wingzer012 a good handful of 14 players have agreed that picto is overtuned. Yoshi P just saying that picto was overtuned and they would like to bring it in line with the other jobs is not a death wish.
I don't think the raids are getting easier, we're just getting better at the game.
As someone who's mained MNK for my melee since HW, I found the removal of positionals to be a sad thing. While I understand it, further removal would take away from some of the skill floor of jobs that are already pretty low to begin with now.
The positional were always meant to be part of the exchange for getting slightly higher DPS compared to the ranged jobs. It gives those jobs a lower floor, but also a higher ceiling.
They turned summoner into a 1 button class, they don't know shit about class design anymore
10:00 you nailed it garrett, the developers have basically been manufacturing consent to remove friction like positionals. the correct response for players that don’t want to deal with positional mechanics, however, is to play melee jobs with fewer positionals or no melee jobs at all, not ask for the system to be removed entirely. not everything has to be, or should be, for everyone
I only started raiding with the last tier of Pandemonium savage so I just thought the first tier is supposed to be easier
The first tier is usually easier than the other two, but this one was even more so than usual.
When you were talking about hard fights i'd say M2S is much harder than M3S. M3S is nice and chill ^^ with plenty of downtime :3
As an old FF fan (my av is Emereald Weapon ffs) I played the game happily for 18 months doing the MSQ and unlocking various duties but I hit "caught up" about halfway into Endwalker. Savage is not fun, and wondering if I just never enjoyed raiding I went back to wow to try raiding there and enjoyed it a lot more. I spend more months subbed to FF14 still because of the social aspect and just keeping my house, but I don't like savage. They need a mode between the long slow telegraphs and heavy tutorial phases of the normal fights without the uber-precision and OHKO wiping of savage.
Morning all o/
My own belief is that the hardest content should be 8 or 4 man. The chaotic raid is NOT midcore, absolutely not. Maybe mechanically its midcore, but because its a 24 man, its above hardcore. Chaotic is definitely above Savage. The coordination required for 24 man raids which have BODY checks all over the place is insane.
its not harder than savage lmao
Llamatodd is right, positionals are an outdated concept. Its far more interesting to just force melee to move around through boss mechanics if the idea is that they must be 'punished'.
Positionals are the only thing left that differentiates melee DPS from everyone else. The DPS difference between hitting and missing positionals isn't enough to matter in most of the game's content, but is a very fun high level optimisation for high end raiders or people who get joy from hyperoptimisation. But the game is rapidly moving away from job heterogeneity so obviously they're gonna be gone by the next expansion
I just want SE to either nerf Picto, or give SMN RDM and BLM the necessary tools to be fun to play again.
they are fun to play right now i switched back to rdm during savage prog and cleared everything just fine without the picto, the game is balanced well enough just play what you enjoy and stop looking at dps charts when the only check you need is the bosses hp if its 0 you did good nothing else should matter after that
1st good morning all o/