I went to Wikipedia by his name and read a 15 plus page research on telepresence in the year 1980, the year I was born, and I was astonished to know how brilliant and sharp mind and forward thinking he pioneered. My all respect to him in his field. The article I read was one of many and I choose that because it corresponded to my year of coming alive. RIP.
0:47 ~ “Society of Mind” vs “Emotion Machine” 7:33 ~ Influences 23:20 ~ How to achieve A.I.? 32:57 ~ A.I. Specialties 45:55 ~ Popular Research Methods 1:03:13 ~ Computers & Common Sense 1:11:10 ~ Student Theories 1:24:34 ~ What is a K-line? 1:47:17 ~ Mind-body problem
@@life42theuniverse That conversation ends at around 18:00 ? 15:48 "In most cultures it might be religion. Which is a sorta science that doesn't use evidence." Small beginnings around the world as religion snuffed out by killing people looking for evidence, he says. Makes ya wonder how Europe with seemingly a mostly related religion and sects had that idea of, 'There is one God. To understand the world is to understand God.' If everyone worships him then it seems it would be easier to join in on that endeavor. Was science getting more refined there than elsewhere because of that? Also religious scholars and noble mathematicians and other well to do rich people seeing learning as a status symbol. War and the arts always seem to hold such status but were learned men as commonly accepted elsewhere? Or is all of that refinement of science simply due to 'the classics' they had learned? Where there was discussion, debate and experimentation. The testing of ideals. Just random thoughts and questions on the internet.
What a brilliant mind. I'm so lucky and grateful for everyone who made the internet possible and accessible for me to watch these great lectures thousands of miles away from the comfort of my bed in Egypt. What a great miracle! Thank you, MIT and USA.
never went to uni, and as a grown up with family and thanks to god a stable and good job i burn inside and with 40 i would love to learn, study to go to lectures and enjoy the sheer joy that only knowledge can give you.
Many colleges & universities will let you “audit” a class for free, i.e. just sit in back & listen, take notes for yourself. There’s also lots of continuing/open higher education classes online now, with guest professors from everywhere, maybe it’s called Great Classes, I forget. Neal Degrasse Tyson had a class recently through this platform I can’t remember the name of.
You're here, go to the mit openware website find your courses, download syllabus and tests. Libgen site for your books, plan your pace with the syllabus/calendar that fits your workflow. Have someone check your tests with the key which is also provided on openware page
+Steve Bergman That's so harsh! I had worse at uni and I still managed to pay attention :P Thanks for the book suggestion. Who do you suggest I pick as my mental narrator?
You're essentially advocating jumping from watching a video (arguably an activity that is easier and wider-reaching) to reading a book, which is a 'doable' pastime in only but some cultures on Earth, not counting notable exceptions to each rule. So, all in all, I am actually glad, not sad. I am glad this video exists. Even more glad because the book preceded it, and glad because time will 'fix' everything due, being sad is counterproductive in regards to this. Call me overly progressive, but not any more than nature will progress over its own agenda. Now, let's just sit around a round table for a bit and think about how does modern attention spans will deal with a 2-hour stretch of old-man's parlance. Yeah. Alright. There we go.
I am very grateful to have the ability to watch a complete Marvin Minsky series. Thank you so much Marvin, I hope you are in some heaven or some interesting afterlife or rebirth. Thank you MIT for making these lectures available for free. What an amazing world.
I started watching this while taking a bath and contemplating why I decided earning a doctoral degree was a good thing…..now I’m suddenly invested in this entire series and I will have to watch it all 🤦🏼♀️❤️❤️
I'm almost done with this course series - I absolutely love it. Thanks so much for posting it. It makes me wish I had spent far more time on my classes when I was in school and had aspired to attend a great university. With this said, being able to watch it without worrying about coursework is also awesome so I can't complain.
just think about it like some ancient school that didn't give degrees to show knowledge, you could either solve the problem or you could not; that is the ubiquitous test.
Inam so grateful these kinds of lectures are recorded. I have an allergy to the university leacture halls, but at 1am in the morning, no stress, this is what I find awesome.😊
I met Prof. Minsky in Puerto Rico when Sears Roebuck sponsored his visit. The subject was Computer Science and the Future of Humanity. It was a momentous seminar as his brilliant exposition covered many themes. Genius.1975-1985.Can't recall with precision now.
Raymond, you probably met him when my father, Endre Guttmann, brought him over to Puerto Rico. Marvin wanted to promote his book Society of Mind and my wanted to promote his new business, The Computer Institute. My father had been a student of Marvin and they kept a cordial relationship after my father graduated from MIT. Seeing this video and then reading your words have brought many wonderful memories. I wish you the very best in life and I concur, Marvin was truly a one of a kind genius. My dad had a partnership with Sears and that is how it was advertised in the papers. Let me know if any of this rings a bell and if you remember anything particularly meaningful from his talk.
Just wanna add Indian scholar Patanjali had an elaborate theory of mind. Although I agree that Eastern philosphers didn't experiment their ideas, but they were great at observation. Most of the eastern ideas come from deep observations of the world.
Have you thought about taking eastern theories you think deserve to be well known and about creating experiments for them? Somebody like you understands well why these theories could be valuable and also why they need to be tested before more people pay attention to them. We can look at ancestors who didn't have the tools or knowledge we have today and continue their efforts. An example of teamwork across ages. 😊
@@BiancaAguglia Yes you are right. Actually when we look at building something we look at a bottom up approach. And for creating an experiment we first need some abstraction or language or a space where we can apply rigour and logic. The ideas I am talking about are very high level, kind of a top view observation. Maybe someday when we have better understanding of bottom level we would be able to understand why some effects were observed at higher level. The cause is the key to AI but clear observations of it's effect can be studied with the works like such of Patanjali as I have mentioned. Something happens in brain and someone observes it minutely that is what I mentioned. But why it happens breaking it down to level of binary and logical memory that is the insurmountable challenge for humans
@@williamhaddoc Yes you are right. Actually, the issue is the texts that we find today contain sutras but not the path how the scholars arrived at those conclusions. So issue is more that if there were experiments through which these sutras were arrived at then either they were not logged in texts or not copied afterwards once conclusions were reached. We do not find any experiments logged in ancient texts, just the sutras that were arrived at. So it feels mysterious. Actually this mystery is very significant. You try to look at vedic maths. It does addition and multiplication and stuff like that but in a different manner. It enables one to perform large calculations mentally. Now, I respect professor Minsky a lot but he says eastern people did not much after arithmatic. Well, the important thing is that even something as basic as arithmatic was done differently. If you are a true philosopher you would love a new way of looking at the same things. Why science was done differently? Why do the conclusions differ for example in field of nutrition? How did people used to think in ancient times? What were thought patterns in those scientific communities? The thing is all this thought is just too much effort. It is just easier for us to shrug off the ancient texts as wrong due to lacking empirical evidences to support their case. I believe, knowledge should be given its due respect no matter from where it is gained. We must not pride ourselves as an advanced civilization but always bow down to all our common ancestors in respect as they might tell us a thing or two that we did not knew. Small details encompass within them whole worlds waiting to be explored.
@@pragmatictrespasser5274 YES!!! I deliberately looked through the comments for this pov. I think its all too human to dismiss others' thinking that doesn't fit our narrative. we miss soooo many tricks. how ignorant to call others ignorant haha
Jeffrey Epstein, whom Minsky was friend with, was not saved in a freezer. So, if Marvin Minsky will ever be awakened again, he would then have to live without the services of Epstein , I am afraid to say...
The student's question at 9:27 is spot on; - I would also kindly suggest that the Western-Eastern spectrum needs further scrutiny. In particular, the continuum, discrete steps or phase space (as you like it) stretching between (i) exclusive identity or quale (Aristotle: "A is either A or NOT-A, a notion and its negation cannot coexist. This is the excluded middle."); (ii) combined or permissive identity and quale (Talmud: "A or NOT-A are not exclusive, A AND Not-A can and does coexist. The middle is in fact permissive."); and (iii) the inclusive identity and/or quale (Buddhism: The coexistence of A AND Not-A is only part of the picture. The double negation NOT-Not-A isn't A automatically, there is always more to the story. The outcome of the second negation depends on context, that is constantly changing subtly both objectively and subjectively; within persons and between persons. You could call this tetra-lemma inclusive negation.") Think then on Minsky's marvelous analogies at 27:19, 33:01 and 45:46, and Feynman's theory multiplicity equivalence at 31:26. Marvin himself says that this is a method to follow, even in AI research. He does declare this "dao" or credo as surely as Feynman does his in his way: - combining perspectives on ways to think and theorize. The Way of the Way, if you like: The Western (exclusive) way of the Eastern Dao just as well as the other way around: the Eastern (syncretic) dao of the Western Way. And, of course, that may not exclude the Middle-Eastern/ West-Asian Talmudic (permissive) thinking in between. Not to mention the incredibly rich Hindu way from which Buddhism has sprung and on which my fellow PhD friend keeps educating me. [There would be quite a bit to unpack in this, my own doctorate was on computational design, and I am still only scratching the surface. If you too feel inspired to correspond, look me up at ottonewhouse on linkedin, or onewhouse [at] yahoo [dot] com. I read on Cybernetics, Applied category theory, and Categorical systems theory. Cheers]
Never be able to attend MIT but once walk inside and visit this place. Just stop by and it was my worth experience. I got to visit the place where educated many well known people
The ideas presented in Marvin Minsky’s book “The Society of Mind” are further developed in “Neurocluster Brain Model” which analyses the processes in the brain from the point of view of the computer science. The brain is a massively parallel computing machine which means that different areas of the brain process the information independently from each other. Neurocluster Brain Model shows how independent massively parallel information processing explains the underlying mechanism of previously unexplainable phenomena such as sleepwalking, dissociative identity disorder (a.k.a. multiple personality disorder), hypnosis, etc.
Sadly the model does not include the primary organs and the hormones these organs use to control the brain. As a result, this type of model will always fail.
Different researchers working in completely different areas have reached similar conclusions and have built similar prototypes of Neurocluster Brain Model. As for example, Marvin Minsky came to these conclusions while he was trying to create intelligent robot machines, Roger Sperry while he was experimenting with split-brain patients, Pierre Janet while he was experimenting with hypnosis, Joseph-Pierre Durand while he was cutting lower animals in pieces, etc. Starting from around 1890, Pierre Janet, Morton Prince and others had been working seriously in this area of research. However, later, after 1910s, this direction of research was practically forgotten, and later, if anyone tried to work in this direction, they simply reinvented the wheel, not knowing anything about the achievements of the 1890s, and not reaching even the microscopic fraction of what had already been achieved in the 1890s. Google for page “The history of Neurocluster Brain Model” which contains the extensive list of researchers and books. The most complete prototype of Neurocluster Brain Model was described in book “Beyond the Conscious Mind. Unlocking the Secrets of the Self” written by Thomas R. Blakeslee in year 1996.
Love Marvin's conjecture at 1:01:18 on better architectures for a step change from narrow AI: "- Exploiting analogies, rather than inflexible rules. [...] - Using higher levels [higher abstraction] of self-reflective knowledge. - Switching among different Ways to Think. [...] architecture that combines these abilities [...] could also include knowledge about ways to improve itself."
Can you point to a single contribution to the advancement of our knowledge of AI, Mind or Philosophy? His only significant work was the creation of a small Turning Machine in 1962
myroseaccount are you joking ? Lol Amongst many other inventions that I don’t have time to list for you : first head mounted graphical display, confocal microscope, the SNARC, the Turing machine you mentioned, amongst others. Additionally, he is regarded as the father of AI. Without his inspiration, initial expertise, and profound intelligence, AI might never have accelerated to where it is today. The guy was a true genius.
My feed gave me this after listening to some unintentional Noam Chomsky asmr. These scholars really need to hire James Earle Jones or Neal Degrasse Tyson or Wayne Dyer or Kermit the Frog to read their lectures.
On the ancient eastern western divide, Marvin is quasi right. On the arabic sciences he aimed solely at algebra, wich started there and reached a high school limit as he said. But in reality the field of science the arabs or their conquered territories advanced the most was medicine wich has a different method. The theory of viruses ( althou not as we know it today) started there and the principles of hospitalization and isolation of a patient also started there. But as he noted, barbarism stopped many of the advancing civilizations regading science, in the case of the arab world, it was the mongols.
The next class in this topic. th-cam.com/video/6AS48fTXBBs/w-d-xo.html The thing about common sense is that there are lots of things that we as humans understand as common, but either don't express it, or don't use it at the time it is necessary. Or maybe we flood the solution space with things that don't work, and it takes time to realize that they won't work. A good example that someone mentioned is that it took many years for people to formulate an algorithm for sorting. You would have thought that someone in the 1500's would have written that and completely "solved" it, considering that at that time, some mathematicians were trying to factorize 3rd order polynomials already then.
Thank you OCW for sharing this course. I'd have to say the professor's lecture is rather difficult to digest. Half of the time he gone tangent and speaks a lot of his biases. His smart talks make it difficult to separate between actual teaching and sarcasm/roasting. Him roasting neuroscience community got funny after 30min or so (LOL) No chill at all.... But seriously, he talks interesting stuff. RIP professor. thank you for the lecture.
Buddhism is about letting go. Loosening physical and mental grasp. The Western approach is to grab onto more tightly to both the physical items in this everything and the concepts that tend towards a greater grasp of the metaphysical and supraphysical underpinnings of this experience we call Earth.
Buddhism is not about letting go. It is about focusing the mind. About complete awareness of thought, emotion and sensation and the connections between all those, and knowing that they, like all things, are transitory. About identifying thoughts and actions that are harmful to oneself and others. It is about freeing yourself, and freeing others from suffering. It is about categorisation. That is just a very small part of the philosophy.
1:41:14. We must remember that numbers, maths are just a way of communication, a language of expression, of explaining, describing what already exist then using the language to express what might be. It is not the end or the completenesses only a tool and all people do not know that language so we must understand that we can still explain and e press ideas or concepts using other languages, and even if people don’t speak certain languages they will speak others some have gone extinct and other waiting birth. It does not mean existence stops, it means you must free your mind of constraints and move to creation.
The Buddha (and Buddhist scholars in general) had a pretty elaborate theory of mind, which was quite impressive for their time and may still well be today, as the recent scientific interest in "meditation", "mindfulness", etc. has shown. It is disappointing that Marvin Minsky had seemingly no idea about it (from that irrelevant parable that he recites, perhaps from a children's book, to show he hasn't missed anything by not knowing about the Buddha).
It's interesting the back and forth with the East Asian student around 11:30 or thereabouts, because the method of debate is quite rigorous without biased or prejudiced remarks. They're on opposite sides of the issue, but it stays civil and professional.
Yes and as it is expected to be. Many people aren’t capable of asking questions and having their beliefs challenged without becoming hostile. But this is a generally professional and intellectual environment. Civility is the most basic standard.
Im back for more , rewatching some parts . My subconcious knows this is better than Netflix . 3 or 20 years from know i will be glad i watched this instead of some drama ...this is far more useful... Like going to the gym instead of going to a fast food restaurant but for brain cells
Augustine was the great redactor making possible science and philosophy. There are many holes in atheism none the least is unwarranted prejudice and constant straw man logical fallacies.
I don't understand why he brought up a religious figure like Buddha, although the concept of karma is like the scientific law of action-reaction. Perhaps the lady in the audience was asking what about any Eastern thinkers who led to inventions, such as the following ? --- paper, printing, gunpowder and compass by China; -- Hindu-Arabic numeral system or Indo-Arabic numeral system; -- algebra by a Persian polymath Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī ; -- etc.
Eastern religious thinkers - could say Avicenna or Averroes, since they saved Aristotle; whose text and work triggered the Enlightenment in Europe upon their re-discovery. The Western Roman empire lost the Greek language as a result of their deterioration, and so only in Byzantium and the Arab world did Aristotle remain primary, as Western Europe plunged into the dark ages for a thousand years.
Does he really wrote in his first slide “which culture to save?” between the problems for which machines are required to be developed? I Can’t believe it! 🤯
I love this man, he has brilliant ideas and an asmr voice. I never paid attention to his compulsion level tho. Do NOT WATCH THE VIDEO...ONLY LISTEN. HE will drive you insane in the 1st 5 minutes with the way he keeps moving the papers and water bottle and whatever else is on the table. Not sure if it's age related or if that's just him. But the 1st time I played this course, I never watched, this time I made the mistake
The question ~10 minute mark about the list being Western philosopher dominated is a valid one. Unfortunately the student couldn't point to them but relevant names like Avicenna, al-Farabi, Huineng, Samkhya, Xun Kuang, et. al. come to mind. Professor Minsky as brilliant as he was does intellectual curiosity, (and himself), a great disservice by brushing the students point aside. I'm not saying one is better than the other but the negating tone towards Eastern philosophy, especially in the Anglo-American school was quite obvious during my studies as well. One wonders, if as predicted the East ascends to power over the West, if many of those on the list will be so unabashedly dismissed.
Actually, Science and Maths really began in the West. In Ancient Greece ALONE. Other cultures were great as well, but not as good. Philosophy PROPER started in Greece.
@@DipayanPyne94 That's simply incorrect. There was science in the Fertile Crescent and Egypt well before Ancient Greece. Likewise Ancient Sumerians had math before Ancient Greece. The archeological evidence is pretty conclusive.
No. I meant the Foundations of Science and Math. That began in Ancient Greece with a Departure from the Supernatural for the very first time in human history. Ancient Egypt, Sumeria, Mesopotamia etc were not fully naturalised. Plus, they didn't come up with Syllogistic Reasoning. It all started in Greece. The Greeks did something unique in the history of mankind. That is why we are still continuing the Greek Intellectual Tradition, even today ...
@@DipayanPyne94 You stated they "began" in the West which isn't true. Even if we shift it to the term foundation, it is still incorrect since foundations are prior to improvements. As for a departure from supernatural, Ancient Greek science and philosophy was rife with belief in their pantheon of gods. I'll grant you that the Ancient Greeks improved upon mathematics and science, but in the same token so did the Chinese, Indians, Persians, Arabs. To this day we use Arabic numbers and the term for algebra (Arab, al-jabr) was coined by a Persian mathematician. The reason the West is so pro Ancient Greece while not acknowledging the contributions of other likely has more to do with geopolitics and religion than it does with intellectual honesty.
Oh. Not true at all. No other culture ever came up with anything like Aristotle's Logic, Euclid's Elements etc etc. Logic comes from the Greek word Logos. Other cultures never made advances as great. In fact, India was HEAVILY influenced by Greece, post Alexander in India in 326 BC. Indians, Chinese etc didn't have Deductive Reasoning like the Ancient Greeks. Even Theories about Nature were nowhere as good in those other cultures. The Greeks single handedly came up with all of that original stuff and that has never been paralleled. The Greeks were the First Perfect Naturalists, Radical Sceptics and Methodologists. You simply don't have any other cultures that used Reasoning the way the Greeks did. Even in the field of Ethics, the Greeks were like no one else. Their Ethics was PURELY Reason based. Who started it ? Socrates. Who continued it ? Well, everybody else in the west, EVER SINCE ! The ENTIRE world today is Greek. And it will continue to be so. And this is coming from me, an Indian, who has understood the whole thing ...
What took humans so long (to progress as woefully inadequately as that animal species as) is the fascinating dearth of meta-abstract thinking among that animal species.
Wow couldnt be more surprised at Minsky's callous dismissal of ancient wisdom in its totality. Shrodinger himself in "What is life/Mind and Matter" stated that the Vedic conception of consciousness is more amenable to the advances of quantum physics than the objectivation of the external world that underlies the Western tradition (this assumption is challenged within the western tradition with Kant and Schopenhauer--the latter of which was heavily influenced by the Vedic scriptures). The epistemological and ontological value of the Upanishads is not something that can be "jumped off the shoulders from" as modern science's fundamental antinomy is that the very feature through which we come to conclusions about the world (sensual qualities) are never in themselves measured (this is what the student at 12:23 is getting at) and can never be accounted for within this paradigm (for example, the reason we experience the color yellow as yellow at its particular wavelength is not something that we can say a priori) and Shrodinger himself contends this! Of course, the western tradition has provided us with the absolute zenith of logical thinking, the importance of which need not be stated; however, it is ironic that some of the most relatively recent advances into the nature of reality with quantum physics ultimately leave space for the ontological worldview of the Eastern tradition; that the observer effect, for example, belies the idea of a world in itself as an external entity separate from human cognition and might moreso support the implications of the ancient Hindu aphorism of "Thou art that". There are existential questions that will never be able to be "answered " by a reducitonist science as these questions cannot be treated as logical propositions; we should not assume our superiority of insight into the nature of reality over our ancient counterparts simply due to our technological advancements (see Oswald Spengler, Decline of the West).
Just so ya know, the common term "observation" used to describe what causes a wave function collapse is actually a misnomer. Consciousness has nothing to do with the wave function collapse. Schrodinger may have just said that because it was a serious consideration in the beginning.
I agree. The fact that he almost completely wrote off ancient wisdom makes me not even want to listen anymore. When he was still alive they had already proven a lot from ancient civilizations, mainly through quantum physics and meta physics. And that's the scientific establishment too! Of course now it's almost all been proven correct.
No fault of the professor to not recognise any eastern philosophers- there is the culture and linguistic barrier to cross as most of the ancient works haven't been translated into English yet
I like to add the fact there were many eastern philosopher who have great ideas in different branches of science but I do accept they were mixed up with religion (some are not).Also I didn't think it's unfair of him to not like it ,everybody have their likes 47:24 but it's really the basic principle of how quantum computers are working at an exponential amount of efficiency than classical computers
@@kensandale243 He said brilliant, not perfect. What do you think of Newton's claim that he could turn lead into gold? You know, that whole alchemical obsession he had?
I gotta say, that Eastern thinkers deflection was weak. You can't say that you don't have Eastern thinkers on your list because they're religious, when you have literal saint and theologian Augustine on your list. Like, for anyone else reading this, it's fine to say "I haven't read any". It's preferable to giving half-assed responses.
+Petar Pajevic - I would agree if they said something concrete, like this or that Eastern thinker said this or that, how do you think this fits in with your theories. But that's not what they're doing, right before he even gets started she starts "where are the Eastern thinkers" - which ones - "well I don't know", what do they say - "well I don't know". Well if you don't know why don't you pipe down and let us listen to the people who actually know something. As if the distinction between "Eastern" and "Western" scientists had any meaning for the last 100 years or so.
I don't know if you know what a seminar is, but since Minsky said it's a seminar, what you're talking about is a seminar. To tell someone in a seminar to pipe down is a fucking bad thing to do. Maybe you're thinking of a lecture, or possibly an elementary school class.
it's mostly from my experience with introductory seminars were usually a small percentage of students usurp most of the time with half-baked theories and questions that could have been answered by picking up an introductory textbook. this is digressing from the topic of this video, though.
The measure theory or probability lecture notes that one of the previous lecturers ostentatiously left on the chalk board makes a good clickbait thumbnail for this lecture. I’d rather listen to his lecture anyway, so it works.
Important to have examples behind philosophies that’s why eastern thinkers have not found the place. hope professor get to experience some of work of Adi Sankra or Vivekanand on Advait Vedanta
Ah, the classic college experience of some random girl derailing the lecture 10 minutes in because she can't get over the fact that Confucius =/= Archimedes.
What a privilege to watch stuff like this for free and readily accessible through the power of the Internet. The US truly is the leading global scientific power
Minsky is wrong. Arabic mathematics advanced a great deal of trigonometry and optics. Many advanced mathematics degree stuff, not 'middle of highschool algebra'. See the works of Ibn Al Haytham, he advanced the field up to hyperbolic geometry. But Minsky does not appear to have been aware of history of science as much as he thought he did. Though to be fair, translation of his works have been publicized relatively recently, however he had been quoted by Copernicus, Descartes, was well known during the renaissance. His works in logic have also been discussed in the recent book The Enigma of Reason, his works were far superior to Aristotle's. Oh and he composed a book about how Ptolemy is wrong in a bunch of theory, exhibiting testing of theory that Minsky mistakenly says only the Greeks worked at. Oh and his optical experiment is where the word camera comes from Q-M-R in Arabic, literally meaning shrouded in Darkness, reference to Camera Obscura.
Most of the mathematics used in Algebra were discovered and invented by Persian mathematicians, scientists, poets, philosophers, and astronomers. The Persians were far more advanced academically than Arabs. Sadly though, everything that had belonged to the Persian empire and its people was confiscated by the Arab Muslim army who had already conquered Persia.
@@AL-SH they learned Arabic in purpose of understanding the words of allah after that they become greater we as an arab declare such matter how ever they decide to live and be in arab land and they are welcomed
The cure for Trumpism is education. I listen to this video and others like it, even as I go throughout my work day. It's a way to improve myself, even though I have a degree in history not the sciences. I'm 50 years old too, but I always push my brain to be more elastic and eschew alcohol and other brain cell destroyers. I plan to still be working and absorbing information at 80 years old as well. MIT is an American treasure. I have gratitude for them putting this lecture on TH-cam.
- as it is the cure for socialism, communism, collectivism, fascism, … even the cure for democracy - see Hans Hermann Hoppe ‘Democracy - the God that failed - an easy read book on the history and philosophy on the topic, and plenty articles online, and lectures and talks on youtube and the Mises Institute channel -
The large chalk used is called railroad chalk. Many MIT instructors use the chalk to ensure students can read the chalkboard easily in the large classrooms.
The comment regarding DARPA around 1:30:00 is interesting... that source of funding seems to align with a lot of financial shifts from the 80's - 00's in which capitalism became priority over progress.
It's comforting to see that even in a prestigious school like MIT someone is stupid enough to derail a lecture. Who cares about shoehorning cultural BS just let the guy get on with explaining his contributions.
I agree with you. Consider that her question was completely irrelevant to the subject. Is it fair to derail this QA+presentation for thousands of other people who find utility in the subject? I believe there's a time and place for questions unrelated to the subject or outside of the scope of a discussion. Maybe a well formatted concise email where she could form a question that is answerable would have been better. The delivery (if honest) is hostile and rhetorical in that format, and that's why this/her social movement is a failure. It's not a discussion, it's rhetoric, there is no answer to a non question, so stop wasting the cumulative time of the thousands of people watching this and let's hear what a genius has to say.
there was no derailment. the lecturer was smart enough to shut down a questioner if the lecturer thinks the questions being asked are not worthwhile, you don't have to worry. and universities have always been a place where different culture and experiences come to meet and share. if she had only been exposed to a particular perspective, this was a chance for her to be challenged which is a requisite for growth. If she had screamed white privilege then it would have been 'cultural BS' but as is her questions were welcomed. Now drink your milk and go to bed
Even the stupidest questions should be asked, so that at least if you had a question that is not that stupid, you wouldn't be afraid to ask it. The problem of this world is that people value how smart they look more than how smart they actually are. This girl, however annoying she might have seemed, has more capacity to make any contribution than people that are sitting in back rows, judging her and masturbating their egos.
Thomas Folbrecht, apparently you missed the part where he wonders why ancient thinking stopped and not developed further. People who had questions were shutdown by religion and other factors. I see your prickly attitude as other factors. He came there to speak asking for questions from the attendees. If the subject is off-topic let him decide, not you. If you don't care, go pound sand.
12:20 - He is comparing the comments of an Ancient Greek/Roman about translucency ... i.e. physics, and using it to judge/compare to Eastern Buddhist religion ... without commenting or mentioning the weird pantheon of gods, goddesses and other theories of "meta"-physics from religion at that time. He is not making a lot of sense, at least in that section and is almost borderline xenophobic.
I come to him because of Prof. Winston's lecture. But I wouldn't say I like his attitude toward Eastern Philosophy and neurologists. I also feel sad and sorry for his passing, can't help but wonder what he would say if he saw the things LLMs can do now.
1:02:10 If you have one end of a string in your left hand the other end of it in your right hand you can push an object with the string… Even Chat GPT understands how a bow&arrow works.
History is proof there has alway's been barbarians that continue to delve into the hedonism of ego, that's why science and alchemy seem to fade because we live on a planet that needs understanding and management, as does our mental lives, personal lives. And quite honestly Aristotle's syllogism is being used today.
There is always a student to dominates the lecture and this occurs 10 minutes in! I’ve just started this excellent series but I feel that I’d like to hear more from the expert and less from the students ….
Minsky should have just admitted he didn’t know enough about eastern philosophers to form an opinion about their views on cognitive psychology. Instead, he let his ego get the better of him and he leaned into ethnocentrism and racism. She shook him and she was right.
Enlightening, I'm ashame to admire the work of Dr Minsky after whether before his death. I don't really seem to get smarter ; I'm cursed to only get less dumb it seems.
I’ve never heard anyone attempt such ideas as to try to break down a natural leaning process in the spirit of attempting to recreate it mechanically or digitally.
I don't know how youtube ended up here, but I had a lucid dream about being on Mars and investigating somebody that was killing for water. There was a big city surrounded by a wall and had a man made river that was going only inside that city and people outside that city were surviving in caves, once I managed to get inside the city they had better technology than our current technology, their guns were melting people till only the bones were left and their letters were none like ours but they all had small symbols above them and the text wasn't separated by space. Long story short I think my brain was receiving something intelligent while I was asleep and it made me have an awesome dream.
@MIT OCW Marvin, the set that contains itself has to be a physical object made of what it’s made of taking up space which then becomes not space but the objects spatial form
How could one come to believe more in a world that is one of many possible worlds versus one world that exists in the only form that it can exist in.... This one to be precise
I went to Wikipedia by his name and read a 15 plus page research on telepresence in the year 1980, the year I was born, and I was astonished to know how brilliant and sharp mind and forward thinking he pioneered. My all respect to him in his field. The article I read was one of many and I choose that because it corresponded to my year of coming alive. RIP.
He also did a lot of harm holding back connectionist funding.
What is that@@dr.mikeybee
0:47 ~ “Society of Mind” vs “Emotion Machine”
7:33 ~ Influences
23:20 ~ How to achieve A.I.?
32:57 ~ A.I. Specialties
45:55 ~ Popular Research Methods
1:03:13 ~ Computers & Common Sense
1:11:10 ~ Student Theories
1:24:34 ~ What is a K-line?
1:47:17 ~ Mind-body problem
thanks bro!
@@life42theuniverse That conversation ends at around 18:00 ?
15:48 "In most cultures it might be religion. Which is a sorta science that doesn't use evidence." Small beginnings around the world as religion snuffed out by killing people looking for evidence, he says. Makes ya wonder how Europe with seemingly a mostly related religion and sects had that idea of, 'There is one God. To understand the world is to understand God.' If everyone worships him then it seems it would be easier to join in on that endeavor.
Was science getting more refined there than elsewhere because of that? Also religious scholars and noble mathematicians and other well to do rich people seeing learning as a status symbol. War and the arts always seem to hold such status but were learned men as commonly accepted elsewhere? Or is all of that refinement of science simply due to 'the classics' they had learned? Where there was discussion, debate and experimentation. The testing of ideals.
Just random thoughts and questions on the internet.
@xTop 187 Time changes things, but you actually have to change them yourself.
@@life42theuniverse
wtwzs
Thank you.
What a brilliant mind. I'm so lucky and grateful for everyone who made the internet possible and accessible for me to watch these great lectures thousands of miles away from the comfort of my bed in Egypt. What a great miracle! Thank you, MIT and USA.
Send me contact number wheat importer companies of egypt
Fuckin A. The Internet is the coolest thing ever🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Tytyy
Pop oĺ
May Allah bless you and assist you on your way to learn more and achieve your goals
never went to uni, and as a grown up with family and thanks to god a stable and good job i burn inside and with 40 i would love to learn, study to go to lectures and enjoy the sheer joy that only knowledge can give you.
Many colleges & universities will let you “audit” a class for free, i.e. just sit in back & listen, take notes for yourself. There’s also lots of continuing/open higher education classes online now, with guest professors from everywhere, maybe it’s called Great Classes, I forget. Neal Degrasse Tyson had a class recently through this platform I can’t remember the name of.
Why not enroll somewhere ? Plenty of great schools out there
You're here, go to the mit openware website find your courses, download syllabus and tests. Libgen site for your books, plan your pace with the syllabus/calendar that fits your workflow. Have someone check your tests with the key which is also provided on openware page
@@izebellebluereadsoutloud3715 Thanks , Ive been going to a few college lectures. They are probably wondering if I am a administrator.
It always makes me sad that these MIT lectures don't have millions of views.
Thanks for posting MIT, you guys rock.
+Steve Bergman watching it at 1.5 speed makes it much nicer to watch!
+Steve Bergman That's so harsh! I had worse at uni and I still managed to pay attention :P
Thanks for the book suggestion. Who do you suggest I pick as my mental narrator?
You're essentially advocating jumping from watching a video (arguably an activity that is easier and wider-reaching) to reading a book, which is a 'doable' pastime in only but some cultures on Earth, not counting notable exceptions to each rule. So, all in all, I am actually glad, not sad. I am glad this video exists. Even more glad because the book preceded it, and glad because time will 'fix' everything due, being sad is counterproductive in regards to this. Call me overly progressive, but not any more than nature will progress over its own agenda. Now, let's just sit around a round table for a bit and think about how does modern attention spans will deal with a 2-hour stretch of old-man's parlance. Yeah. Alright. There we go.
Catchy things get the most attention. Not the right and productive things. Harsh fact of life
MIT Lectures are not for mainstream.
RIP Marvin, thank you for blessing us with these lectures !
🙏 🕊
@@coemoney😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
🙏🏼 MIT for making it possible that all of us could attend otherwise wasn’t possible.
Greatly appreciated !
they trying to brainwash you!
“Nothing ever explains anything, you just have to take what you got and make the best of it” ❤
As long as one did not take Epstein's lolitas to bed...
He hit the nail on the coffin with that line. Rest well, to him.
I am very grateful to have the ability to watch a complete Marvin Minsky series.
Thank you so much Marvin, I hope you are in some heaven or some interesting afterlife or rebirth.
Thank you MIT for making these lectures available for free.
What an amazing world.
I'm sure he and Jefferery Epstein are living it up on an island in heaven 🏝
@@tear728 you would know Jeffrey
@@tear728 why what did minsky do
I started watching this while taking a bath and contemplating why I decided earning a doctoral degree was a good thing…..now I’m suddenly invested in this entire series and I will have to watch it all 🤦🏼♀️❤️❤️
Pics or it didn’t happen 😍
I also want to see your wet wobblers
Poop
I'm almost done with this course series - I absolutely love it. Thanks so much for posting it. It makes me wish I had spent far more time on my classes when I was in school and had aspired to attend a great university. With this said, being able to watch it without worrying about coursework is also awesome so I can't complain.
just think about it like some ancient school that didn't give degrees to show knowledge, you could either solve the problem or you could not; that is the ubiquitous test.
@@rommemory282 diiiiieieeeedeiururrreeeert
Inam so grateful these kinds of lectures are recorded. I have an allergy to the university leacture halls, but at 1am in the morning, no stress, this is what I find awesome.😊
I met Prof. Minsky in Puerto Rico when Sears Roebuck sponsored his visit. The subject was Computer Science and the Future of Humanity. It was a momentous seminar as his brilliant exposition covered many themes. Genius.1975-1985.Can't recall with precision now.
Raymond, you probably met him when my father, Endre Guttmann, brought him over to Puerto Rico. Marvin wanted to promote his book Society of Mind and my wanted to promote his new business, The Computer Institute. My father had been a student of Marvin and they kept a cordial relationship after my father graduated from MIT.
Seeing this video and then reading your words have brought many wonderful memories.
I wish you the very best in life and I concur, Marvin was truly a one of a kind genius. My dad had a partnership with Sears and that is how it was advertised in the papers. Let me know if any of this rings a bell and if you remember anything particularly meaningful from his talk.
It's amazing to know that there is a course like this.
Just wanna add Indian scholar Patanjali had an elaborate theory of mind. Although I agree that Eastern philosphers didn't experiment their ideas, but they were great at observation. Most of the eastern ideas come from deep observations of the world.
Have you thought about taking eastern theories you think deserve to be well known and about creating experiments for them? Somebody like you understands well why these theories could be valuable and also why they need to be tested before more people pay attention to them. We can look at ancestors who didn't have the tools or knowledge we have today and continue their efforts. An example of teamwork across ages. 😊
@@BiancaAguglia Yes you are right. Actually when we look at building something we look at a bottom up approach. And for creating an experiment we first need some abstraction or language or a space where we can apply rigour and logic. The ideas I am talking about are very high level, kind of a top view observation. Maybe someday when we have better understanding of bottom level we would be able to understand why some effects were observed at higher level.
The cause is the key to AI but clear observations of it's effect can be studied with the works like such of Patanjali as I have mentioned.
Something happens in brain and someone observes it minutely that is what I mentioned. But why it happens breaking it down to level of binary and logical memory that is the insurmountable challenge for humans
@@williamhaddoc Yes you are right. Actually, the issue is the texts that we find today contain sutras but not the path how the scholars arrived at those conclusions. So issue is more that if there were experiments through which these sutras were arrived at then either they were not logged in texts or not copied afterwards once conclusions were reached. We do not find any experiments logged in ancient texts, just the sutras that were arrived at. So it feels mysterious. Actually this mystery is very significant. You try to look at vedic maths. It does addition and multiplication and stuff like that but in a different manner. It enables one to perform large calculations mentally. Now, I respect professor Minsky a lot but he says eastern people did not much after arithmatic. Well, the important thing is that even something as basic as arithmatic was done differently. If you are a true philosopher you would love a new way of looking at the same things. Why science was done differently? Why do the conclusions differ for example in field of nutrition? How did people used to think in ancient times? What were thought patterns in those scientific communities?
The thing is all this thought is just too much effort. It is just easier for us to shrug off the ancient texts as wrong due to lacking empirical evidences to support their case. I believe, knowledge should be given its due respect no matter from where it is gained. We must not pride ourselves as an advanced civilization but always bow down to all our common ancestors in respect as they might tell us a thing or two that we did not knew. Small details encompass within them whole worlds waiting to be explored.
@@pragmatictrespasser5274 YES!!! I deliberately looked through the comments for this pov. I think its all too human to dismiss others' thinking that doesn't fit our narrative. we miss soooo many tricks. how ignorant to call others ignorant haha
He also said that if you are not questioning old thoughts then you aren’t evolving. Don’t just stand on their shoulders, jump forward.
I'm glad Minsky was an Alcor member and is safely in a freezer now. If you are reading these comments in 30 years, give me a thumbs up Marv.
Liberty
Technological Singularity is near...
doesn't cells explode
😂
Jeffrey Epstein, whom Minsky was friend with, was not saved in a freezer. So, if Marvin Minsky will ever be awakened again, he would then have to live without the services of Epstein , I am afraid to say...
It is very interesting to see that Minsky often moves his bottle of water on the desk.
From 48:48 onward, it is the most epic lecture I've ever watched.
Let me tell you about the time when I hanged out with Einstein. I love when teachers share personal histories.
when they‘re impressive
Einstein, Epstein, same difference right?
The student's question at 9:27 is spot on;
- I would also kindly suggest that the Western-Eastern spectrum needs further scrutiny. In particular, the continuum, discrete steps or phase space (as you like it) stretching between (i) exclusive identity or quale (Aristotle: "A is either A or NOT-A, a notion and its negation cannot coexist. This is the excluded middle."); (ii) combined or permissive identity and quale (Talmud: "A or NOT-A are not exclusive, A AND Not-A can and does coexist. The middle is in fact permissive."); and (iii) the inclusive identity and/or quale (Buddhism: The coexistence of A AND Not-A is only part of the picture. The double negation NOT-Not-A isn't A automatically, there is always more to the story. The outcome of the second negation depends on context, that is constantly changing subtly both objectively and subjectively; within persons and between persons. You could call this tetra-lemma inclusive negation.")
Think then on Minsky's marvelous analogies at 27:19, 33:01 and 45:46, and Feynman's theory multiplicity equivalence at 31:26. Marvin himself says that this is a method to follow, even in AI research. He does declare this "dao" or credo as surely as Feynman does his in his way: - combining perspectives on ways to think and theorize. The Way of the Way, if you like: The Western (exclusive) way of the Eastern Dao just as well as the other way around: the Eastern (syncretic) dao of the Western Way. And, of course, that may not exclude the Middle-Eastern/ West-Asian Talmudic (permissive) thinking in between. Not to mention the incredibly rich Hindu way from which Buddhism has sprung and on which my fellow PhD friend keeps educating me.
[There would be quite a bit to unpack in this, my own doctorate was on computational design, and I am still only scratching the surface. If you too feel inspired to correspond, look me up at ottonewhouse on linkedin, or onewhouse [at] yahoo [dot] com. I read on Cybernetics, Applied category theory, and Categorical systems theory. Cheers]
Thank you MIT. Such a great lesson to have for free on TH-cam.
Never be able to attend MIT but once walk inside and visit this place. Just stop by and it was my worth experience. I got to visit the place where educated many well known people
When I lived in Cambridge I did the same thing.
The ideas presented in Marvin Minsky’s book “The Society of Mind” are further developed in “Neurocluster Brain Model” which analyses the processes in the brain from the point of view of the computer science.
The brain is a massively parallel computing machine which means that different areas of the brain process the information independently from each other.
Neurocluster Brain Model shows how independent massively parallel information processing explains the underlying mechanism of previously unexplainable phenomena such as sleepwalking, dissociative identity disorder (a.k.a. multiple personality disorder), hypnosis, etc.
Unless you have a spectrum disorder in which case you usually lack the crosstalk between brain regions
Sadly the model does not include the primary organs and the hormones these organs use to control the brain. As a result, this type of model will always fail.
do you have any other book suggestions on the topic from other perspectives?
Different researchers working in completely different areas have reached similar conclusions and have built similar prototypes of Neurocluster Brain Model.
As for example, Marvin Minsky came to these conclusions while he was trying to create intelligent robot machines, Roger Sperry while he was experimenting with split-brain patients, Pierre Janet while he was experimenting with hypnosis, Joseph-Pierre Durand while he was cutting lower animals in pieces, etc.
Starting from around 1890, Pierre Janet, Morton Prince and others had been working seriously in this area of research. However, later, after 1910s, this direction of research was practically forgotten, and later, if anyone tried to work in this direction, they simply reinvented the wheel, not knowing anything about the achievements of the 1890s, and not reaching even the microscopic fraction of what had already been achieved in the 1890s.
Google for page “The history of Neurocluster Brain Model” which contains the extensive list of researchers and books.
The most complete prototype of Neurocluster Brain Model was described in book “Beyond the Conscious Mind. Unlocking the Secrets of the Self” written by Thomas R. Blakeslee in year 1996.
Content: Philosophy
Chalkboard: Probability theory / disjoint mathematics
Only clicked for this, the "disconnect" between title and thumbnail
genuinely thought it was a measure theory course from the thumbnail lol
Love Marvin's conjecture at 1:01:18 on better architectures for a step change from narrow AI:
"- Exploiting analogies, rather than inflexible rules. [...]
- Using higher levels [higher abstraction] of self-reflective knowledge.
- Switching among different Ways to Think.
[...] architecture that combines these abilities [...] could also include knowledge about ways to improve itself."
Rip Dr.Minsky, thanks for all your work
Can you point to a single contribution to the advancement of our knowledge of AI, Mind or Philosophy? His only significant work was the creation of a small Turning Machine in 1962
myroseaccount are you joking ? Lol
Amongst many other inventions that I don’t have time to list for you : first head mounted graphical display, confocal microscope, the SNARC, the Turing machine you mentioned, amongst others. Additionally, he is regarded as the father of AI. Without his inspiration, initial expertise, and profound intelligence, AI might never have accelerated to where it is today. The guy was a true genius.
@@rblauson What do you think of his claim that one of Newton's Laws was that kinetic energy is conserved?
@@kensandale243 why do keep leaving the same comment over and over lol
You have some very particular requirements for thanking someone for their works 🛀
Unintentional asmr
My feed gave me this after listening to some unintentional Noam Chomsky asmr. These scholars really need to hire James Earle Jones or Neal Degrasse Tyson or Wayne Dyer or Kermit the Frog to read their lectures.
Lol, after coming from one of these unintentional asmr videos I can't stand watching this one without laughing xd
Every comment above this one is 100% wrong
The comment above this one is 100% wrong
Zean G merrtlei9$Angeal Home run
I love how this dude is so keen on casual humor
I like when he clears the snot out of his throat every ten seconds. I would pay big money to see this guy teach at a public school in South Chicago.
On the ancient eastern western divide, Marvin is quasi right. On the arabic sciences he aimed solely at algebra, wich started there and reached a high school limit as he said. But in reality the field of science the arabs or their conquered territories advanced the most was medicine wich has a different method. The theory of viruses ( althou not as we know it today) started there and the principles of hospitalization and isolation of a patient also started there. But as he noted, barbarism stopped many of the advancing civilizations regading science, in the case of the arab world, it was the mongols.
1.75 speed is a wonderful option.
Facts. Thank youuuuu
Thanks almost injects him with speed.
The next class in this topic.
th-cam.com/video/6AS48fTXBBs/w-d-xo.html
The thing about common sense is that there are lots of things that we as humans understand as common, but either don't express it, or don't use it at the time it is necessary. Or maybe we flood the solution space with things that don't work, and it takes time to realize that they won't work. A good example that someone mentioned is that it took many years for people to formulate an algorithm for sorting. You would have thought that someone in the 1500's would have written that and completely "solved" it, considering that at that time, some mathematicians were trying to factorize 3rd order polynomials already then.
R.I.P. My hero
Thank you OCW for sharing this course. I'd have to say the professor's lecture is rather difficult to digest.
Half of the time he gone tangent and speaks a lot of his biases. His smart talks make it difficult to separate between actual teaching and sarcasm/roasting.
Him roasting neuroscience community got funny after 30min or so (LOL) No chill at all....
But seriously, he talks interesting stuff. RIP professor. thank you for the lecture.
this is wonderful watching MIT lectures in my bedroom .thanks youtube internet who made this possible .love from india
Buddhism is about letting go. Loosening physical and mental grasp. The Western approach is to grab onto more tightly to both the physical items in this everything and the concepts that tend towards a greater grasp of the metaphysical and supraphysical underpinnings of this experience we call Earth.
Buddhism is not about letting go. It is about focusing the mind. About complete awareness of thought, emotion and sensation and the connections between all those, and knowing that they, like all things, are transitory. About identifying thoughts and actions that are harmful to oneself and others.
It is about freeing yourself, and freeing others from suffering. It is about categorisation.
That is just a very small part of the philosophy.
1:41:14. We must remember that numbers, maths are just a way of communication, a language of expression, of explaining, describing what already exist then using the language to express what might be. It is not the end or the completenesses only a tool and all people do not know that language so we must understand that we can still explain and e press ideas or concepts using other languages, and even if people don’t speak certain languages they will speak others some have gone extinct and other waiting birth. It does not mean existence stops, it means you must free your mind of constraints and move to creation.
Priceless! Only gratitude, that I have access to these, Thank you!!
brilliant , picking the right probiem , and asking the right questions, may mean everything
The Buddha (and Buddhist scholars in general) had a pretty elaborate theory of mind, which was quite impressive for their time and may still well be today, as the recent scientific interest in "meditation", "mindfulness", etc. has shown. It is disappointing that Marvin Minsky had seemingly no idea about it (from that irrelevant parable that he recites, perhaps from a children's book, to show he hasn't missed anything by not knowing about the Buddha).
인간의 본성을 찾아 책들이 가르키는 곳을 보다가.. 우연히 알게된 당신의 글은 한페이지를 읽을때 몇번을 덮고 생각을 하게 만드는지 ^^!
감사하고 당신의 말에 크게 공감합니다
It's interesting the back and forth with the East Asian student around 11:30 or thereabouts, because the method of debate is quite rigorous without biased or prejudiced remarks. They're on opposite sides of the issue, but it stays civil and professional.
Yes and as it is expected to be. Many people aren’t capable of asking questions and having their beliefs challenged without becoming hostile. But this is a generally professional and intellectual environment. Civility is the most basic standard.
oh for crying out loud. That's standard for literally any university. What do you think we do there, scream and throw chairs at each other? lol
Im back for more , rewatching some parts . My subconcious knows this is better than Netflix . 3 or 20 years from know i will be glad i watched this instead of some drama ...this is far more useful... Like going to the gym instead of going to a fast food restaurant but for brain cells
Augustine was the great redactor making possible science and philosophy. There are many holes in atheism none the least is unwarranted prejudice and constant straw man logical fallacies.
About music ... “If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration // Nikola Tesla ..
I don't understand why he brought up a religious figure like Buddha, although the concept of karma is like the scientific law of action-reaction.
Perhaps the lady in the audience was asking what about any Eastern thinkers who led to inventions, such as the following ?
--- paper, printing, gunpowder and compass by China;
-- Hindu-Arabic numeral system or Indo-Arabic numeral system;
-- algebra by a Persian polymath Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī ;
-- etc.
Eastern religious thinkers - could say Avicenna or Averroes, since they saved Aristotle; whose text and work triggered the Enlightenment in Europe upon their re-discovery. The Western Roman empire lost the Greek language as a result of their deterioration, and so only in Byzantium and the Arab world did Aristotle remain primary, as Western Europe plunged into the dark ages for a thousand years.
No South American, African or Polynesians cognitive psychologists either. Sheesh
i have greatest wisdom of life without even meeting him. MIT thank you
1:22:20 if the "close enough" attitude is good enough for Marv, it's good enough for me!
10:50 it's funny how science is proving more and more that Eastern philosophers were onto something, including their ideas about cognition.
I had the very early version of "Society of Mind" 1986 and he gave a two lectured about his book in 1987. It was still the winter time of AI.
9:24 she just interrupts his speech and proceeds to talk about thinkers she doesn't know about. I love the answers he gave to her though.
I am glad for the channel in publishing it, so we can have evidence what went wrong in education 🙃
This dude's pretty much an unknown legend.
Does he really wrote in his first slide “which culture to save?” between the problems for which machines are required to be developed? I Can’t believe it! 🤯
I love this man, he has brilliant ideas and an asmr voice. I never paid attention to his compulsion level tho. Do NOT WATCH THE VIDEO...ONLY LISTEN. HE will drive you insane in the 1st 5 minutes with the way he keeps moving the papers and water bottle and whatever else is on the table. Not sure if it's age related or if that's just him. But the 1st time I played this course, I never watched, this time I made the mistake
The society of mind. What a blessing.
Thank you so much for posting these free to the public!
The question ~10 minute mark about the list being Western philosopher dominated is a valid one. Unfortunately the student couldn't point to them but relevant names like Avicenna, al-Farabi, Huineng, Samkhya, Xun Kuang, et. al. come to mind. Professor Minsky as brilliant as he was does intellectual curiosity, (and himself), a great disservice by brushing the students point aside.
I'm not saying one is better than the other but the negating tone towards Eastern philosophy, especially in the Anglo-American school was quite obvious during my studies as well.
One wonders, if as predicted the East ascends to power over the West, if many of those on the list will be so unabashedly dismissed.
Actually, Science and Maths really began in the West. In Ancient Greece ALONE. Other cultures were great as well, but not as good. Philosophy PROPER started in Greece.
@@DipayanPyne94 That's simply incorrect. There was science in the Fertile Crescent and Egypt well before Ancient Greece. Likewise Ancient Sumerians had math before Ancient Greece. The archeological evidence is pretty conclusive.
No. I meant the Foundations of Science and Math. That began in Ancient Greece with a Departure from the Supernatural for the very first time in human history. Ancient Egypt, Sumeria, Mesopotamia etc were not fully naturalised. Plus, they didn't come up with Syllogistic Reasoning. It all started in Greece. The Greeks did something unique in the history of mankind. That is why we are still continuing the Greek Intellectual Tradition, even today ...
@@DipayanPyne94 You stated they "began" in the West which isn't true. Even if we shift it to the term foundation, it is still incorrect since foundations are prior to improvements.
As for a departure from supernatural, Ancient Greek science and philosophy was rife with belief in their pantheon of gods.
I'll grant you that the Ancient Greeks improved upon mathematics and science, but in the same token so did the Chinese, Indians, Persians, Arabs. To this day we use Arabic numbers and the term for algebra (Arab, al-jabr) was coined by a Persian mathematician.
The reason the West is so pro Ancient Greece while not acknowledging the contributions of other likely has more to do with geopolitics and religion than it does with intellectual honesty.
Oh. Not true at all. No other culture ever came up with anything like Aristotle's Logic, Euclid's Elements etc etc. Logic comes from the Greek word Logos. Other cultures never made advances as great. In fact, India was HEAVILY influenced by Greece, post Alexander in India in 326 BC. Indians, Chinese etc didn't have Deductive Reasoning like the Ancient Greeks. Even Theories about Nature were nowhere as good in those other cultures. The Greeks single handedly came up with all of that original stuff and that has never been paralleled.
The Greeks were the First Perfect Naturalists, Radical Sceptics and Methodologists. You simply don't have any other cultures that used Reasoning the way the Greeks did.
Even in the field of Ethics, the Greeks were like no one else. Their Ethics was PURELY Reason based. Who started it ? Socrates. Who continued it ? Well, everybody else in the west, EVER SINCE !
The ENTIRE world today is Greek. And it will continue to be so. And this is coming from me, an Indian, who has understood the whole thing ...
What took humans so long (to progress as woefully inadequately as that animal species as) is the fascinating dearth of meta-abstract thinking among that animal species.
RIP Marvin minsky ..
This type of content makes my life feel worth of living
Wow couldnt be more surprised at Minsky's callous dismissal of ancient wisdom in its totality. Shrodinger himself in "What is life/Mind and Matter" stated that the Vedic conception of consciousness is more amenable to the advances of quantum physics than the objectivation of the external world that underlies the Western tradition (this assumption is challenged within the western tradition with Kant and Schopenhauer--the latter of which was heavily influenced by the Vedic scriptures). The epistemological and ontological value of the Upanishads is not something that can be "jumped off the shoulders from" as modern science's fundamental antinomy is that the very feature through which we come to conclusions about the world (sensual qualities) are never in themselves measured (this is what the student at 12:23 is getting at) and can never be accounted for within this paradigm (for example, the reason we experience the color yellow as yellow at its particular wavelength is not something that we can say a priori) and Shrodinger himself contends this! Of course, the western tradition has provided us with the absolute zenith of logical thinking, the importance of which need not be stated; however, it is ironic that some of the most relatively recent advances into the nature of reality with quantum physics ultimately leave space for the ontological worldview of the Eastern tradition; that the observer effect, for example, belies the idea of a world in itself as an external entity separate from human cognition and might moreso support the implications of the ancient Hindu aphorism of "Thou art that". There are existential questions that will never be able to be "answered " by a reducitonist science as these questions cannot be treated as logical propositions; we should not assume our superiority of insight into the nature of reality over our ancient counterparts simply due to our technological advancements (see Oswald Spengler, Decline of the West).
Just so ya know, the common term "observation" used to describe what causes a wave function collapse is actually a misnomer. Consciousness has nothing to do with the wave function collapse. Schrodinger may have just said that because it was a serious consideration in the beginning.
I agree. The fact that he almost completely wrote off ancient wisdom makes me not even want to listen anymore. When he was still alive they had already proven a lot from ancient civilizations, mainly through quantum physics and meta physics. And that's the scientific establishment too! Of course now it's almost all been proven correct.
And even more important than Shrodinger's work, (in my opinion) was the discovery of entanglement. Which was proven early 20th century.
No fault of the professor to not recognise any eastern philosophers- there is the culture and linguistic barrier to cross as most of the ancient works haven't been translated into English yet
I prefer Manly Palmer Hall. I love all knowledge that is provided.
Yeah I do too. M.P.H. is great but there is no comparison M.P.H. was into ancient esoteric philosophy. This guy is too closed minded.
@MIT opencourseware Please put English Captions for better understanding.
Just hit the cc button
I like to add the fact there were many eastern philosopher who have great ideas in different branches of science but I do accept they were mixed up with religion (some are not).Also I didn't think it's unfair of him to not like it ,everybody have their likes
47:24 but it's really the basic principle of how quantum computers are working at an exponential amount of efficiency than classical computers
I agree with you completely. It was so narrow minded and ignorant of him to say what he did
Marvin is just so damn brilliant. Funny as hell too.
"Marvin is just so damn brilliant."
What do you think of his claim that one of Newton's Laws was that kinetic energy is conserved?
@@kensandale243 He said brilliant, not perfect. What do you think of Newton's claim that he could turn lead into gold? You know, that whole alchemical obsession he had?
@@kensandale243...Newton though time was absolute. He was wrong, but he was still brilliant.
I gotta say, that Eastern thinkers deflection was weak. You can't say that you don't have Eastern thinkers on your list because they're religious, when you have literal saint and theologian Augustine on your list. Like, for anyone else reading this, it's fine to say "I haven't read any". It's preferable to giving half-assed responses.
+Petar Pajevic - I would agree if they said something concrete, like this or that Eastern thinker said this or that, how do you think this fits in with your theories. But that's not what they're doing, right before he even gets started she starts "where are the Eastern thinkers" - which ones - "well I don't know", what do they say - "well I don't know". Well if you don't know why don't you pipe down and let us listen to the people who actually know something. As if the distinction between "Eastern" and "Western" scientists had any meaning for the last 100 years or so.
I don't know if you know what a seminar is, but since Minsky said it's a seminar, what you're talking about is a seminar. To tell someone in a seminar to pipe down is a fucking bad thing to do. Maybe you're thinking of a lecture, or possibly an elementary school class.
It's labelled a lecture, and even in a seminar it's usually advisable to think before you talk, unless your aim is to spoil it for the others.
It's not labeled a lecture, Minsky calls it a seminar, and why do you think someone's question is raised to "spoil it for everyone"?
it's mostly from my experience with introductory seminars were usually a small percentage of students usurp most of the time with half-baked theories and questions that could have been answered by picking up an introductory textbook. this is digressing from the topic of this video, though.
thank you! lets see how fast can I finish viewing these lectures
The measure theory or probability lecture notes that one of the previous lecturers ostentatiously left on the chalk board makes a good clickbait thumbnail for this lecture. I’d rather listen to his lecture anyway, so it works.
Important to have examples behind philosophies that’s why eastern thinkers have not found the place. hope professor get to experience some of work of Adi Sankra or Vivekanand on Advait Vedanta
He's dead.
Ah, the classic college experience of some random girl derailing the lecture 10 minutes in because she can't get over the fact that Confucius =/= Archimedes.
What a privilege to watch stuff like this for free and readily accessible through the power of the Internet. The US truly is the leading global scientific power
But the Web was invented by a Brit doing research in Switzerland,
@@finchbevdale2069 who told you that lie?
@@finchbevdale2069 well even if that is the case, that doesn’t change the fact that many forms of information are widely accessible in the US region.
Minsky is wrong. Arabic mathematics advanced a great deal of trigonometry and optics. Many advanced mathematics degree stuff, not 'middle of highschool algebra'. See the works of Ibn Al Haytham, he advanced the field up to hyperbolic geometry. But Minsky does not appear to have been aware of history of science as much as he thought he did. Though to be fair, translation of his works have been publicized relatively recently, however he had been quoted by Copernicus, Descartes, was well known during the renaissance. His works in logic have also been discussed in the recent book The Enigma of Reason, his works were far superior to Aristotle's. Oh and he composed a book about how Ptolemy is wrong in a bunch of theory, exhibiting testing of theory that Minsky mistakenly says only the Greeks worked at.
Oh and his optical experiment is where the word camera comes from Q-M-R in Arabic, literally meaning shrouded in Darkness, reference to Camera Obscura.
Most of the mathematics used in Algebra were discovered and invented by Persian mathematicians, scientists, poets, philosophers, and astronomers.
The Persians were far more advanced academically than Arabs. Sadly though, everything that had belonged to the Persian empire and its people was confiscated by the Arab Muslim army who had already conquered Persia.
@@AL-SH they learned Arabic in purpose of understanding the words of allah after that they become greater we as an arab declare such matter how ever they decide to live and be in arab land and they are welcomed
The cure for Trumpism is education. I listen to this video and others like it, even as I go throughout my work day. It's a way to improve myself, even though I have a degree in history not the sciences. I'm 50 years old too, but I always push my brain to be more elastic and eschew alcohol and other brain cell destroyers. I plan to still be working and absorbing information at 80 years old as well. MIT is an American treasure. I have gratitude for them putting this lecture on TH-cam.
- as it is the cure for socialism, communism, collectivism, fascism, … even the cure for democracy - see Hans Hermann Hoppe ‘Democracy - the God that failed - an easy read book on the history and philosophy on the topic, and plenty articles online, and lectures and talks on youtube and the Mises Institute channel -
How is that chalk so bright?
The large chalk used is called railroad chalk. Many MIT instructors use the chalk to ensure students can read the chalkboard easily in the large classrooms.
The comment regarding DARPA around 1:30:00 is interesting... that source of funding seems to align with a lot of financial shifts from the 80's - 00's in which capitalism became priority over progress.
It's comforting to see that even in a prestigious school like MIT someone is stupid enough to derail a lecture. Who cares about shoehorning cultural BS just let the guy get on with explaining his contributions.
I agree with you.
Consider that her question was completely irrelevant to the subject. Is it fair to derail this QA+presentation for thousands of other people who find utility in the subject? I believe there's a time and place for questions unrelated to the subject or outside of the scope of a discussion. Maybe a well formatted concise email where she could form a question that is answerable would have been better. The delivery (if honest) is hostile and rhetorical in that format, and that's why this/her social movement is a failure. It's not a discussion, it's rhetoric, there is no answer to a non question, so stop wasting the cumulative time of the thousands of people watching this and let's hear what a genius has to say.
there was no derailment. the lecturer was smart enough to shut down a questioner if the lecturer thinks the questions being asked are not worthwhile, you don't have to worry.
and universities have always been a place where different culture and experiences come to meet and share. if she had only been exposed to a particular perspective, this was a chance for her to be challenged which is a requisite for growth.
If she had screamed white privilege then it would have been 'cultural BS' but as is her questions were welcomed.
Now drink your milk and go to bed
Even the stupidest questions should be asked, so that at least if you had a question that is not that stupid, you wouldn't be afraid to ask it.
The problem of this world is that people value how smart they look more than how smart they actually are.
This girl, however annoying she might have seemed, has more capacity to make any contribution than people that are sitting in back rows, judging her and masturbating their egos.
Thomas Folbrecht, apparently you missed the part where he wonders why ancient thinking stopped and not developed further. People who had questions were shutdown by religion and other factors. I see your prickly attitude as other factors. He came there to speak asking for questions from the attendees. If the subject is off-topic let him decide, not you. If you don't care, go pound sand.
"Abstract means stupid." I love his non PC approach lol !!
12:20 - He is comparing the comments of an Ancient Greek/Roman about translucency ... i.e. physics, and using it to judge/compare to Eastern Buddhist religion ... without commenting or mentioning the weird pantheon of gods, goddesses and other theories of "meta"-physics from religion at that time. He is not making a lot of sense, at least in that section and is almost borderline xenophobic.
Give an example of an eastern philosopher that studied philosophy of mind and enlighten us
@@viniciomonge3960
What does your trolling have anything to do with what I said. What to be a jerk!
I come to him because of Prof. Winston's lecture. But I wouldn't say I like his attitude toward Eastern Philosophy and neurologists. I also feel sad and sorry for his passing, can't help but wonder what he would say if he saw the things LLMs can do now.
His attitude towards Eastern Philosophy is right. Eastern Philosophy never became as Rational as the West. Philosophy PROPER started in Greece.
Rational, you think that's wise to base your beliefs on rationality? Who's version of what's rational do you think you should go by.
1:02:10
If you have one end of a string in your left hand the other end of it in your right hand you can push an object with the string…
Even Chat GPT understands how a bow&arrow works.
Alltid takk MIT
Laid the smack down! “If they [ideologies] can’t be tested, why should someone look at them twice?” 👋 😲 😂
History is proof there has alway's been barbarians that continue to delve into the hedonism of ego, that's why science and alchemy seem to fade because we live on a planet that needs understanding and management, as does our mental lives, personal lives. And quite honestly Aristotle's syllogism is being used today.
There is always a student to dominates the lecture and this occurs 10 minutes in! I’ve just started this excellent series but I feel that I’d like to hear more from the expert and less from the students ….
Minsky should have just admitted he didn’t know enough about eastern philosophers to form an opinion about their views on cognitive psychology. Instead, he let his ego get the better of him and he leaned into ethnocentrism and racism. She shook him and she was right.
Enlightening, I'm ashame to admire the work of Dr Minsky after whether before his death.
I don't really seem to get smarter ; I'm cursed to only get less dumb it seems.
The Dunning-Kruger affect at work then. The smarter you are, the dumber you feel. The dumber you are, the smarter you feel.
This guy is a living historical book ...
I’ve never heard anyone attempt such ideas as to try to break down a natural leaning process in the spirit of attempting to recreate it mechanically or digitally.
I use this to fall asleep. Thanks.
I don't know how youtube ended up here, but I had a lucid dream about being on Mars and investigating somebody that was killing for water. There was a big city surrounded by a wall and had a man made river that was going only inside that city and people outside that city were surviving in caves, once I managed to get inside the city they had better technology than our current technology, their guns were melting people till only the bones were left and their letters were none like ours but they all had small symbols above them and the text wasn't separated by space.
Long story short I think my brain was receiving something intelligent while I was asleep and it made me have an awesome dream.
If only the sound was better; Minsky is so soft spoken, I can barely make out what he's saying.
These are a treasure. Thanks for posting!
Great intellect. Thank you MIT. Thank you professor.
He fixed the R!! Great lecture!!! :)
@MIT OCW Marvin, the set that contains itself has to be a physical object made of what it’s made of taking up space which then becomes not space but the objects spatial form
And Marvin died not cool
Why does it have to be physical?
Jesus I almost didn't watch this. I hung on and I'm glad I did. He is fascinating.
I just about left when he mentions admiring Oppenheimer but am sticking with it for a bit.
@@StillTheTruth1 let me guess, because the the atomic bomb?
How could one come to believe more in a world that is one of many possible worlds versus one world that exists in the only form that it can exist in.... This one to be precise