Having almost fully recovered from a low side fall off my bike 2 years ago (front tyre skidded braking hard on a dry road), I can catagorically say its so not much the CE rating but how well the armour stays where it should to cover your knee thats important. I was on my regular commute home at 30 mph wearing Scott textile overpants with level 2 knee armour, these were over my office pants. but the armor was almost useless because the overpants rotated during the slide so it was was no longer covering my knee. My knee was swolen for months after and was drained twice, I was totally pissed off with my so called protective pants. If you expect armor to work the pants it is fitted to must be tight around your knees. I have a simple test for your armoured pants, it just requires dragging your knee opposing the lay of carpet pile so you get some resistance, here's how its done: Find a carpeted room and determine which direction the carpet pile is laid. Now kneel on the carpet facing across the direction of the carpet pile, with your knees about 400 mm (16 inches) apart. Determine which knee will drag opposing the carpet pile and take a little weight off it so you can slide it toward the other. When your knees touch check the position of the armour relative to your dragged knee. You might be surprised how much it has moved away from your knee. This is a mild test compared to what will happen on the road in a real situation. I'd be interested in your feedback as I think a lot of pants will fail this test.
Body armour is intended to reduce "impact" not "abrasion" in a off - though it has been shown to improve the external fabric performance a little bit - to function to the max body armour needs to be held close and tight to the body - "not" waving around in an out sized over garment. Think Bowtex , Knox , Panda Moto or Nemean under garments.
You can’t ignore their honesty, I’ve bought a lot from these guys and I’m an extremely happy customer! Even when I’ve had a issue with a product they happily resolved it quickly! If you own a motorcycle and have ever bought one new you’ll understand how warranty claims work. Kinda the same if your a seller of stock from a brand in my mind! When I bought a after market exhaust from a dealership that became faulty after a few months, I didn’t blame the seller of the product I held the producer of the product accountable as it was their product that failed. Now as a consumer we have certain rights and sellers will do their best to correct the issue but if there’s nothing more they can do then sometimes that’s the cards life deals and you have to contact the main suppliers... So cheer up buttercup, life’s too short to always look at the negatives.
I get it - Ducati never offer free exchanges for the buyers of existing Panagales or Multistradas when the new model updates arrive. I might ask, though, will these SAS chappies be making a range of thin “Level 2” back protectors? That’d be a thing.
I got some and they feel great. Well, that is, you don't feel them much at all most of the time. Only downside I can see over the d30 is no ventilation. It looks like oxford are now selling this same armour under their rebranding as 'dynamic'.
Perhaps it would be useful to indicate which side of armour goes against your skin. Sometimes this is written on armour itself, but in this case I think majority of folks got it wrong and the black dimples go against your skin and flat part goes outside contrary to average armour or even Ghost armour. This way the armour truly molds it's shape to your knee, if you put it backwards in the trousers it creates strange waves of excess fabric (Ghost armour and many others have cutouts to solve this). You can also see when they sell version of velcro armour on which side the velcro is located.
Do you actually think the impact dissipation works on these new types of armour? I bought a full set of ghost however when it came I had no faith in it, it was rock hard and transferred all impact to my body (when hitting myself with a length of wood). I have other pads that I would happily drop to my knees on concrete with and know it will protect me, however the ghost would really hurt if I dropped to my knees. Safe to say I sent it back. D30 ghost is no longer the soft squishy stuff that softens impact, it's fairly hard plastic.
D3O is a marketing gimmick completely since they have temperature problems from the beginnig. When its cold or hot armour gets hard or soft and cannot provide same protection(significantly). But their marketing is so strong, top brands are using it and all sellers are fooled(just like here). Sastec killed it with phantom, they have 7mm L1, 9mm L2(in this video) versions and now have air(holes) versions of them. Unfortunately I know more than this channel which should be otherwise and they keep talking about honesty all the time IDK why... Btw I have 2 pairs of phantom armours(this new armours' code/name start with SC-1, dont search for "phantom") I recommend you to get air version with velcro since they tend to fold in the pocket when you take of your trouser or jacket.
Have you seen A-XOC armour? It's level 2, insanely flexible and completely breathble! Alpinestars nucleon pro protectors look exactly the same in design
you can get the same sas tec armor CE elvel 2 (in black) on ebay (German vendor) at half the price. I just bought the hip armor for 17 euro including shipping.
It is not always about saving a few quid. Those videos provide an excellent and frankly unique service, and it makes sense to support who dedicate so much time in studying, analyzing, and technically explaining the gear. It is part of being a member of the community, you give and you get. No judgment of your position, just saying that it makes sense to buy from who provides you such a great service and learning experience.
This may be a bit of an odd question but do you need to remove armour before running jeans through a wash? I always have but it does become a bit of a faff trying to get it in the right place again each time I wash my jeans.
It sounds good but I don't feel I'm missing out having the D30 CE2 armor. My gut feeling is that your phantom is going to be maybe less bulky than D30 but not as impact absorbent
Dear Stuart, Since posting the video, there have been some posts about the armour; I suspect from the competition! Yes, there’s not, it would seem, a huge benefit of the Phantom over the Ghost. But, even though the benefit is not as great as I implied there can be no doubt that the Phantom is more absorbent of energy, and therefore more protective. If you had normal, shaped armour, and wanted to go flat, you would go for the Phantom if you were being rationale. But if you have the Ghost already, then the benefit is more marginal, although still the difference between the two could be between a broken bone and one that is not. In terms of comfort, you would be hard pressed to know which you were wearing.
Dear Coyote, as ever, Rukka does its own thing. They have armour made specifically for their purposes, and their pockets for D30 aren’t the same as normal D30 pockets. The Forsair has large, Level 2 armour in its pockets. The Phantom will not absorb more energy than the armour in the Forsair. It will also not fill the pocket, so it will move around a bit. Yes, the Phantom may be lower profile and more comfortable, but from a functionality perspective I cannot see that it would make sense to swap. In the video, I did state that D3O’s Level 2 armour was quite thick. In a jean or a snugly fitting leather jacket it doesn’t look nice, but in the looser fitting Forsair D3O’s armour works fine and doesn’t look out of place. There is no Phantom armour for the back.
Just put this in the knees on my single skin jeans. Not as comfortable as I was hoping. Also, I must have ‘hot’ knees, hot. Sweating like mad, just on my knees. Bizarre. Never experienced that before 😂. 6/10.
you say phantom are so much better than ghost but d30 ghost only transmited 21-22kN on the test... right on the borderline of the level 2. cant find test data for the phantom so to be level 2 they could transmit 20kN only 1-2kN less than d30 ghost. ghost have better more universal shape and size, thinner, lighter. im sticking with the ghost. was a good attempt to upsell but research prevailed.
Seems a heavy up sell. The d3o ghost is thinner and is less intrusiveness in a pair of riding jean, 3mm does make a difference in riding jeans comfort. And if you use them in riding jeans. The ce level 1 will do a good job. Wont be whipping the bike around with riding jeans like on a track. And ce level 1 is approved for most tracks out there. It is still a safe armor and is good for street and touring purposes.
Tracks are low risk for impact injuries. You hit the ground before gracefully sliding to a stop. On the other hand a direct impact with a car at 60kmh is often fatal.
@@bananabread7641 depends on the type of crash. You highside at 90mbh. That is more impact and kinetic energy then cruising around town at 40mph in a pair.of riding jeans. If you want max protection go airbag system. Level 2 won't save you from a t born crash from a car or a head on with a car.
Dear Jamie, I have learned something since posting the video. And what it would seem is that the differential between the Phantom and the Ghost is not as great as I had implied or thought. In terms of riding comfort, I have an advantage in that I have ridden in both. 3mm, I can assure you, does not make a difference, and in some ways I think the Phantom armour is nicer to wear because it is more flexible. It is not for me or you or indeed anyone to tell other bikers whether Level 1 is good enough for them, whatever trackside operators might say. Level 2 is a higher standard. It is more protective, and there will be instances where a Level 2 protector will prevent a bone from breaking where a Level 1 piece might not. A Level 2 protector that is this thin and flexible is amazing, and even in a slow speed accident in town you might well benefit from its higher level of energy absorption.
It is not a 50% difference. They are close in protection in reality. This armor is more for the urban rider with riding jeans. That 3mm difference could make a difference. Good quality level 1 is very protective, so it is no slouch.
Looks good, but really, what dinosaur of retailing still sets prices at such-and-such 99? £29.99 £39.99 etc. Come on, it’s an insult to consumers. Just be straight and price then at £30 £40 whatever. It’s not the 1980s any more.
Dear Russell, In terms of the price point, we have no policy and are not trying to fool anybody. We go out at the rrp, and if you look at our website you will see that we have some products that end in £9, some at £8, some at £5, some at £4.82 and so on. As far as being a dinosaur is concerned, well we just follow the suppliers’ guidelines. We are not a big believer in following modern trends. When we set up our shop, we ignored every retailing principle vouchsafed by every guru in the business. But the truth is that we simply like our way better. Dinosaur or not. Same applies to our website, which is not like anybody else’s. Come to that; the same applies to our videos.
@@Motolegends Hi ML, and thanks for replying. I was pointing the dinosaur comment at whoever sets the prices, so those further up the supply chain in this case then. We consumers have very limited means of feeding back directly to those people, so feeding back through the retailer seems the logical option. Hopefully you might have the opportunity of passing comments back during (eventual) meetings with suppliers. I’m personally tired of the “sale ends Monday” and “£29.99” way of the past. Anyway, regarding ML, I generally love what you do and my credit card records certainly vouch for that.
Having almost fully recovered from a low side fall off my bike 2 years ago (front tyre skidded braking hard on a dry road), I can catagorically say its so not much the CE rating but how well the armour stays where it should to cover your knee thats important. I was on my regular commute home at 30 mph wearing Scott textile overpants with level 2 knee armour, these were over my office pants. but the armor was almost useless because the overpants rotated during the slide so it was was no longer covering my knee. My knee was swolen for months after and was drained twice, I was totally pissed off with my so called protective pants. If you expect armor to work the pants it is fitted to must be tight around your knees. I have a simple test for your armoured pants, it just requires dragging your knee opposing the lay of carpet pile so you get some resistance, here's how its done: Find a carpeted room and determine which direction the carpet pile is laid. Now kneel on the carpet facing across the direction of the carpet pile, with your knees about 400 mm (16 inches) apart. Determine which knee will drag opposing the carpet pile and take a little weight off it so you can slide it toward the other. When your knees touch check the position of the armour relative to your dragged knee. You might be surprised how much it has moved away from your knee. This is a mild test compared to what will happen on the road in a real situation. I'd be interested in your feedback as I think a lot of pants will fail this test.
Yeah.
Body armour is intended to reduce "impact" not "abrasion" in a off - though it has been shown to improve the external fabric performance a little bit - to function to the max body armour needs to be held close and tight to the body - "not" waving around in an out sized over garment. Think Bowtex , Knox , Panda Moto or Nemean under garments.
You can’t ignore their honesty, I’ve bought a lot from these guys and I’m an extremely happy customer! Even when I’ve had a issue with a product they happily resolved it quickly!
If you own a motorcycle and have ever bought one new you’ll understand how warranty claims work. Kinda the same if your a seller of stock from a brand in my mind! When I bought a after market exhaust from a dealership that became faulty after a few months, I didn’t blame the seller of the product I held the producer of the product accountable as it was their product that failed. Now as a consumer we have certain rights and sellers will do their best to correct the issue but if there’s nothing more they can do then sometimes that’s the cards life deals and you have to contact the main suppliers... So cheer up buttercup, life’s too short to always look at the negatives.
"we're closed on Mondays" was a cracking bit of banter 😂😂
I get it - Ducati never offer free exchanges for the buyers of existing Panagales or Multistradas when the new model updates arrive.
I might ask, though, will these SAS chappies be making a range of thin “Level 2” back protectors? That’d be a thing.
I got some and they feel great. Well, that is, you don't feel them much at all most of the time. Only downside I can see over the d30 is no ventilation.
It looks like oxford are now selling this same armour under their rebranding as 'dynamic'.
I was laughing at the closed on mondays bit...brilliant line and love how you kept a straight face.. The gap was excellent before the punch line :)
Thank you for this video,
You literally answered all my questions I had before watching. Please keep up the great work!
I just bought a set of D3O Ghost armor weeks ago, but in my order for the SAS-TEC Phantom today!
What way around does the armour go?
Perhaps it would be useful to indicate which side of armour goes against your skin. Sometimes this is written on armour itself, but in this case I think majority of folks got it wrong and the black dimples go against your skin and flat part goes outside contrary to average armour or even Ghost armour. This way the armour truly molds it's shape to your knee, if you put it backwards in the trousers it creates strange waves of excess fabric (Ghost armour and many others have cutouts to solve this). You can also see when they sell version of velcro armour on which side the velcro is located.
Looks good need some for my leather jacket. Question do they fit well in rokkertech jeans as I have a pair of those🤔🤔
Do you actually think the impact dissipation works on these new types of armour? I bought a full set of ghost however when it came I had no faith in it, it was rock hard and transferred all impact to my body (when hitting myself with a length of wood). I have other pads that I would happily drop to my knees on concrete with and know it will protect me, however the ghost would really hurt if I dropped to my knees. Safe to say I sent it back. D30 ghost is no longer the soft squishy stuff that softens impact, it's fairly hard plastic.
D3O is a marketing gimmick completely since they have temperature problems from the beginnig. When its cold or hot armour gets hard or soft and cannot provide same protection(significantly). But their marketing is so strong, top brands are using it and all sellers are fooled(just like here).
Sastec killed it with phantom, they have 7mm L1, 9mm L2(in this video) versions and now have air(holes) versions of them.
Unfortunately I know more than this channel which should be otherwise and they keep talking about honesty all the time IDK why...
Btw I have 2 pairs of phantom armours(this new armours' code/name start with SC-1, dont search for "phantom") I recommend you to get air version with velcro since they tend to fold in the pocket when you take of your trouser or jacket.
@@plt4415 screenshotted, thx man 🤙
I have the SAS-Tec armour, but I have a velcro strip on the OUTSIDE of the knee pocket. Can the velcro armour be fitted in this circumstance?
Which side goes toward the exterior of the jacket or pants?
Does anyone know some knee protectors that use these thin SAS-TEC L2 pads? Can't find anything.
Does this also fit in the segura subotai?
How to mount them? Which side to body? It is not explained anywhere :(
Have you seen A-XOC armour? It's level 2, insanely flexible and completely breathble! Alpinestars nucleon pro protectors look exactly the same in design
you can get the same sas tec armor CE elvel 2 (in black) on ebay (German vendor) at half the price. I just bought the hip armor for 17 euro including shipping.
It is not always about saving a few quid. Those videos provide an excellent and frankly unique service, and it makes sense to support who dedicate so much time in studying, analyzing, and technically explaining the gear. It is part of being a member of the community, you give and you get. No judgment of your position, just saying that it makes sense to buy from who provides you such a great service and learning experience.
looks very much like the armour HG used to put in their clothing 10 years ago, that was very good so hopefully this is even better.
This may be a bit of an odd question but do you need to remove armour before running jeans through a wash? I always have but it does become a bit of a faff trying to get it in the right place again each time I wash my jeans.
Have you tried the new poltergeist armour?
New armour sounds great. What is that sand coloured wax jacket swinging in the breeze over Chris's left shoulder?
Helstons Hunt jacket in oak.
Great chat sir, thanks so much for all your videos
It sounds good but I don't feel I'm missing out having the D30 CE2 armor. My gut feeling is that your phantom is going to be maybe less bulky than D30 but not as impact absorbent
Dear Stuart,
Since posting the video, there have been some posts about the armour; I suspect from the competition! Yes, there’s not, it would seem, a huge benefit of the Phantom over the Ghost. But, even though the benefit is not as great as I implied there can be no doubt that the Phantom is more absorbent of energy, and therefore more protective. If you had normal, shaped armour, and wanted to go flat, you would go for the Phantom if you were being rationale. But if you have the Ghost already, then the benefit is more marginal, although still the difference between the two could be between a broken bone and one that is not. In terms of comfort, you would be hard pressed to know which you were wearing.
Will this fit a Rukka Forseair jacket in the elbows/forearms, shoulders and back Chris? If so is its surface area as large as Rukka?
Dear Coyote, as ever, Rukka does its own thing. They have armour made specifically for their purposes, and their pockets for D30 aren’t the same as normal D30 pockets. The Forsair has large, Level 2 armour in its pockets. The Phantom will not absorb more energy than the armour in the Forsair. It will also not fill the pocket, so it will move around a bit. Yes, the Phantom may be lower profile and more comfortable, but from a functionality perspective I cannot see that it would make sense to swap. In the video, I did state that D3O’s Level 2 armour was quite thick. In a jean or a snugly fitting leather jacket it doesn’t look nice, but in the looser fitting Forsair D3O’s armour works fine and doesn’t look out of place. There is no Phantom armour for the back.
@@Motolegends Many thanks for the informative response Chris.
How can I email this guy directly? I have some questions about purchasing gear for a group of schools
Thank you for the test. Very interesting.
Good video and informative, but would have liked to have seen it being fitted and worn. Many thanks.
Just put this in the knees on my single skin jeans. Not as comfortable as I was hoping. Also, I must have ‘hot’ knees, hot. Sweating like mad, just on my knees. Bizarre. Never experienced that before 😂. 6/10.
Did you face the textured side or the smooth side against the skin?
Can this go in the Belstaff Mansion?
Yes, no problem.
@@Motolegends phew :) super fast delivery thanks
@@Motolegends what size Belstaff did you try them in? Elbow armour seems marginally too wide for the medium.
Mine’s a 99 with a flake please! :)
you say phantom are so much better than ghost but d30 ghost only transmited 21-22kN on the test... right on the borderline of the level 2. cant find test data for the phantom so to be level 2 they could transmit 20kN only 1-2kN less than d30 ghost. ghost have better more universal shape and size, thinner, lighter. im sticking with the ghost. was a good attempt to upsell but research prevailed.
I don't get it. NO WHERE in the video did he actually compare their absorption so how is SAS better than D3O?
after 1 year of use for my hip protection sustech cracked from 3 spots.
Seems a heavy up sell. The d3o ghost is thinner and is less intrusiveness in a pair of riding jean, 3mm does make a difference in riding jeans comfort. And if you use them in riding jeans. The ce level 1 will do a good job. Wont be whipping the bike around with riding jeans like on a track. And ce level 1 is approved for most tracks out there. It is still a safe armor and is good for street and touring purposes.
Tracks are low risk for impact injuries. You hit the ground before gracefully sliding to a stop. On the other hand a direct impact with a car at 60kmh is often fatal.
@@bananabread7641 depends on the type of crash. You highside at 90mbh. That is more impact and kinetic energy then cruising around town at 40mph in a pair.of riding jeans. If you want max protection go airbag system. Level 2 won't save you from a t born crash from a car or a head on with a car.
Dear Jamie, I have learned something since posting the video. And what it would seem is that the differential between the Phantom and the Ghost is not as great as I had implied or thought. In terms of riding comfort, I have an advantage in that I have ridden in both. 3mm, I can assure you, does not make a difference, and in some ways I think the Phantom armour is nicer to wear because it is more flexible. It is not for me or you or indeed anyone to tell other bikers whether Level 1 is good enough for them, whatever trackside operators might say. Level 2 is a higher standard. It is more protective, and there will be instances where a Level 2 protector will prevent a bone from breaking where a Level 1 piece might not. A Level 2 protector that is this thin and flexible is amazing, and even in a slow speed accident in town you might well benefit from its higher level of energy absorption.
It is not a 50% difference. They are close in protection in reality. This armor is more for the urban rider with riding jeans. That 3mm difference could make a difference. Good quality level 1 is very protective, so it is no slouch.
Pitter patter of feet at 5:20, screwball for me please. Sorry great vid as usual.
It looks a tad stiffer
Looks good, but really, what dinosaur of retailing still sets prices at such-and-such 99? £29.99 £39.99 etc. Come on, it’s an insult to consumers. Just be straight and price then at £30 £40 whatever. It’s not the 1980s any more.
Dear Russell,
In terms of the price point, we have no policy and are not trying to fool anybody. We go out at the rrp, and if you look at our website you will see that we have some products that end in £9, some at £8, some at £5, some at £4.82 and so on. As far as being a dinosaur is concerned, well we just follow the suppliers’ guidelines. We are not a big believer in following modern trends. When we set up our shop, we ignored every retailing principle vouchsafed by every guru in the business. But the truth is that we simply like our way better. Dinosaur or not. Same applies to our website, which is not like anybody else’s. Come to that; the same applies to our videos.
@@Motolegends Hi ML, and thanks for replying. I was pointing the dinosaur comment at whoever sets the prices, so those further up the supply chain in this case then. We consumers have very limited means of feeding back directly to those people, so feeding back through the retailer seems the logical option. Hopefully you might have the opportunity of passing comments back during (eventual) meetings with suppliers. I’m personally tired of the “sale ends Monday” and “£29.99” way of the past. Anyway, regarding ML, I generally love what you do and my credit card records certainly vouch for that.
Closed on Mondays😂 Hey dudes 1ly is this available in the states yet? Also do they fit dainese super speed 3s? Thanks gents stay safe out there. 👍