"Oh my, there's are quite a few of you. Oksar the Timid here, charmed to make your acquaintance. No cause for concern, it's really quite comfortable in here, though you would not believe the rent. I'd be happy to take any questions..."
Okay, so what is your take? 1:10 The Damage/Effect is Restrained. "You create a magical restraint to hold a creature..." is the text. A Restrained creature has a movement speed of zero. So I suppose a wizard might use Mage Hand and Unseen Servant to get around in a minimized Stone Shaped gem room. However, the room may be shrunk down, but these spell effects would be normal sized. The Restrained Wizard also suffers Disadvantage on attacks. That would not be a problem for Eyebite and a few other spells, but in general this might be considered a big down side.
I have a few questions, actually. Given that your character does not have the Observant feat, did you find you ever had any difficulty listening in on the rest of your party (Detect Thoughts and perceiving through your familiar notwithstanding)? Were there any particular reasons for your racial choice of Kobold and your two-level dip into Druid? If you had the opportunity to play a lower-level version of this concept (e.g. your character crossed an archmage and got trapped in a gemstone), how do you think your build and tactics would change?
@sigiltech "Despite my seclusion, I feel very well aware of my surroundings. My translucent accommodations can float thanks to my 6th level Immovable Objects spell, and, as you started, my at-will Detect Thoughts helps me know when to reach out with my Telepathy. But the key to my awareness, especially hearing, is by faithful magical instantiation, the Manifest Mind. Its mind is linked with mine, and shares all that it sees and hears, with no action required on my part, in contrast to mind riding a familiar. No one chooses the circumstances of their birth, my dear, but my draconic air fits well with my Dragon Stary Form, don't you think? In this state, I become an unrivaled caster of my favorite spell, Telekinesis, as my Intelligence never faulters. I can only cast non-touch spells outside my gem 6 times a day, so a long duration spell I can continue to exert over multiple encounters is of prime importance. When I was theorizing my gem tactics before I moved in here, I thought that my draconic cry would be an effective way to aid my comrades, but alas no enemies can hear my roar! Hmm, were I a younger mage in this arrangement non-consensually, I think my first concern would be how to target creatures with my spells. I hear that Tricky clerics can spell cast through a double at a very low level. Wildfire druids also have a spell platform. I submit my humble option that no spell drone matches the scouting potential nor the durability of the Manifest Mind."
The idea of a tiny immortal wizard, in an indestructible gemstone, flinging himself around by the Catapult spell feels like an episode of Rick and Morty.
OMG, you can use the ruby you are inside as the material component for the Artificer's Homunculus infusion, and literally travel around inside your homunculus. There are so many amazing applications of this concept, I love it.
The tiny servant spell also do something similar dough for only 8 hours at a time. The homunculus would be better but it would cost more levels in artificer and you won't be able to reset it if it dies. Can a tiny servant die if it's made from a instructable gym?
@@Dragoon42 Ooooh, I hadn't thought about doing it with Tiny Servant. I also realized you could do something similar with the Creation Bard's Dancing Item... I'm struggling with figuring out how to use them best though. The Homunculus can deliver your Touch spells, which gives it a little bit of oomph... Honestly, using the original Ruby Mage build and making the ruby your Tiny Servant to let you move around makes the most sense to me... But I can see a lot of different pieces that could definitely come together for some variants of the build!
First of all, the Raven Queen called, and she is angry. Second, you've just provided us all with a great NPC with which to frustrate our parties. Thanks!!!
One particular point about this strategy: if you are actually a player looking to take advantage of this, you would actually want the DM to rule that you can't directly target people from inside the gem, and would need something like Manifest Mind or Find Familiar in order to cast spells outside the gem. Because if the gem does not count as total cover to prevent you from directly targeting people with spells, it can't logically count as total cover to prevent enemy spellcasters from directly targeting you with spells.
I don’t think the word “restraint” is the problem. It’s not Restrained the condition, as we can infer because one of the spell options, the chaining option, specifically calls out the restrained condition while other options do not. The bigger problem I see is the wording for the minimus containment option state that NOTHING can pass into or out of the gem, even through magical means. That means no spell casting out of the gem. It would be a VERY generous reading to say it’s OK to cast spells through a familiar or animated spellbook outside of the gem. The magic for the spell still comes from the caster, not from the familiar or book.
Well, I don’t really know about that. If you’re one inch tall, what about getting an inch tall standing barrier to put in your crystal? Maybe an inch of adamantine?
I use Minimus Imprisonment as a way to store my body nearby while I'm using Magic Jar to pilot another body. It's dangerous to use Magic Jar if your body isn't near you, so keeping it safe in a gemstone you can wear around your neck or put in your pocket is a good way to avoid some of the risk.
That's actually a smart idea, while the Clone spell certainly mitigates some of the risk of magic jar it can be difficult to get back into action if things go awry.
I agree! The spells on that character sheet also make a really good template for DMs to use for liches who are currently acting through their phylactery. Add the classics like Magic Jar, Clone and Simulacrum and you're set on the mechanics for your bbeg. Now to just add mcguffins and prophecies that let your party catch them when they're vulnerable.
I have long thought that a self-applied Hedged Prison in a demiplane linked to an elaborate tiny model of a castle and library would be a fantastic retirement for a wizard for as long as they might wish to remain retired. I did NOT ever figure out how to be Imprisoned and still actively contribute to a group in combat. Wow.
Just a few things: first of all I love how watching your videos I knew scribe wizard would be getting a reference once you started laying out spellcasting restrictions. It’s exciting to spin forward concepts we’ve previously learned. Secondly, I LOLd when you said “theyve spent one action and they’ve released a high level wizard from an imprisonment spell. Congratulations!” Finally, RamenGoblin has a beautiful mind. Really thinks outside the box.
I highly disgree with the list of things that can pass through the Imprisonment object. Obviously "nothing can pass through" includes magic. So any spell that targets you cannot affect anything outside of the gem, Cone of Cold has a range of Self but it obviously can't go through the gem, so Eye Bite cannot either. If Find Familiar can't be cast through the gem, then why would manifest mind be able to pass through the gem? Incorporeal creatures can't pass through the gem, so neither should your manifest mind.
@@agilemind6241 This is all within the realm of theory, DM fiat, conversation, and a joint understanding at a table. Treantmonk and I agreed before the session that Manifesting a Mind outside of the prison didn't count as passing something through the barrier. Similarly, telepathically commanding the Mind that's outside the gem or originating spells from that origin does not violate the prison. This is simply our intuition of what counts as passing something through the barrier. If you take an interpretation of "nothing can pass through" to the extreme, it beings to include absurd things like information or emotions. The ruby mage couldn't make a funny face at a friend, since that would be sending a smile through; he couldn't pantomime anything that would send an idea through the barrier. If light passes through, the trapped creature can inevitably affect the world to some extent. This build takes that possibility to the extreme for high level tables that think this concept is flavorful and fun.
The thought of an invincible wizard with the catapult spell mastery, smacking everyone left and right like a demented frog from within their ruby tickles me pink.
My goodness, this is diabolical. I really appreciate the depth of commitment to surprising shenanigans to have come up with this particular bit of wizardly nonsense. Well played Ramen Goblin, well played indeed.
As soon as you mentioned imprisonment I knew where this was going. I’m disappointed I didn’t think of it myself. Catapult was the only spell I didn’t think of. I did however think of affixing the gem to the awakened spell book and have it being carried around by my simulacrum.
This make the character concept where the character is a normal guy who becomes a "Warlock" but their patron is just a high level wizard who provides spells even more plausible.
Echo Knight is also one of the best multiclasses for a wizard doing this. Be a bladesinger stuck in an invulnerable gem and make your attacks from your echo's location.
2 Levels in Cleric: Trickery Domain allow once per day 1 Minute of Casting all spells(not using up your limited uses of Project Mind), and doesn't impede you from getting 9th level spells. Since it's only 2 levels in Cleric and not 3 levels, you still get Spell Mastery at 18th in Wizard(although you lose out on Signature Spells).
I once made friends with an olliephant and he wished to help me so badly (planar binding and other coercion were surprisingly not involved this time but are optional for the less friendly) with his magic immunity feature that he can share with nearby cratures, but him dying was of great concearn, making him really small and stuffing him inside a gem on my ring made that a much more safe and enjoyable partnership, nevermind that the Holliephant's trait makes you, him, and most importantly the gemstone immune to spells of 5th level or lower, even if upcast, making your imprisonment UNDISPELLABLE
This is actually a really neat use of the spell, one could also e.g. stuff a high level paladin in there to benefit from their auras - or consider the thought that all rings of protection are actually failed paladins who had low Cha that got stuffed into the ring?
@@ImpaleTheLiving hell yeah, get yourself a ring of limited spell immunity today! For the low low price of 1 conjure celestial/true polymorph, 1 planar binding and 1 imprisonment!
@@mirkofraccastoro7573 You'll also need to Guise or Charm or just convince the creature to keep the aura up as well. otherwise it can suppress it and you've just got a fancy rock elephant
This is a wonderful concept. It reminds me of a broken Vampire I had back in 3.5. He lived in a bag of holding because, ya know, Sunlight. Only came out to help during indoors sessions or dungeons. Had a feat that gave him stacking +1 to all rolls for the rest of the day whenever he killed something with his drain. So he carried a few bags of tricks and fed off of small animals to power up. Whenever a real fight started the party would pull him out of a bag and throw him at the enemy. 3.5 was delightfully broken, especially with undead PCs or necromancers.
Oh thank you for the inspiration! Imagine a nefarious wizard imprisoned in a jeweled circlet. the party unaware, strange things go on that seem to defy the party investigation: Monsters get heads up of the party whereabouts (the villains Manifest mind gives the creatures info, etc) and even the most dispatchable creatures seem to have a grasp on the party's common tactics. The little spy within the eye of the circlet betrays them all, can they figure out who it is.
@@djmor693 Your idea actually has me excited to give Strahd an AMBER ring. Maybe the ring can give him DR 5 all damage but it is canceled if Ireena is within 25 feet of him. RP his connection with the ring and the amber temple is interrupted by his love/obsession with Ireena. Also you can add a hint about the ring by some old ritual at the amber temple that the PC's can discover if they go there. I'm running CoS right now and I think I'm going to do this!
I really like the tie in to the amber temple. If you made the lich in the amber temple his high wizard, than you can find a scroll for this 9th level spell. Maybe even a gem.
Okay, one thing I have to mention: you need a 10,000 gp gem, and like you said,’you definitely have to be 1 inch tall, so it’s gonna get a bit claustrophobic in there. So you quest (or send the PCs to quest) for the largest gemstone you can get that’s worth at least 10.000 gp, like an uncut chunk of cheap quartz the size of a truck, so you have a nice big home and plenty of room to move around. Not great for combat, but someone/something fun to have the PCs meet.
Putting a scribes wizard in a full cover box was one of the early things I thought of while watching your old scribes video. Since then Ive had a scribes wizard in my optimized party and have written alot of text on optimizing the attainment and function of the object they hang out in (can be human sized after all). With things like rope trick, a steel cube with 1 hole near the person carrying it to give touch spells yet still be fully obscured, ways to transport things in and out without misty step, how to get certain things in the cube from others that require a "free space" to create them, a small ring of bars with a tiny height that have a droppable cover you can close to regain full cover, ways allies to give you full cover without using the internal cover, using phantom steeds to carry the cube, arcane lock to improve its unbreckability, manufacturing of better cubes, ect, ect. Early on I had a plasmoid like you recently showed in a oneshot, though I realized it being a plasmoid was unnessisary. You just had to be able to get into a hollow cube. Using the 9th level spell imprissionment as an option for a cube at high level is, fortunately for me in this case, quite easy to stumble into. Since I happened to already have so much developed similiar to that. If it was a strategy that was 9th level spells only and wasnt similiar to activities I was already doing I think it would be alot harder to notice.
I feel like this is a great settup for a wizard that was looking for a diferent form of immortality than lichdom. Maybe he wanted to be a magic sword forever and made a sword with a big ass gem in the hilt
I actually used resilient sphere at spell level 4 to pull off similar combo as a Scribes Wizard. I had to concentrate on it, but it was a lower level spell and it served me very well in most situations that required this type of tactic (I found that being invulnerable for proficiency times per day number of spells was plenty to get the job done). Anyway, cool video, looking forward to the new series you announced Chris
The wording of the 9TH LEVEL imprisionment spell, "nothing else (besides light) can pass through", is pretty clear to disallow spells, mind, etc. This is not a protection spell like prismatic sphere, it is an imprisionment spell.
I think this is just a case of scribes introducing a mechanic that was not conceived of when imprisonment was designed. This would be disallowed in the spell description if it were relevant at the time. But since it isn't... Fair game!
This is all within the realm of theory, DM fiat, conversation, and a joint understanding at a table. Treantmonk and I agreed before the session that Manifesting a Mind outside of the prison didn't count as passing something through the barrier. Similarly, telepathically commanding the Mind that's outside the gem or originating spells from that origin does not violate the prison. This is simply our intuition of what counts as passing something through the barrier. If you take an interpretation of "nothing can pass through" to the extreme, it begins to include absurd things like information or emotions. The ruby mage couldn't make a funny face at a friend, since that would be sending a smile through; he couldn't pantomime anything that would send an idea through the barrier. If light passes through, the trapped creature can inevitably affect the world to some extent. This build takes that possibility to the extreme for high level tables that think this concept is flavorful and fun.
@@mrwaffleman8732 Why would the manifest mind be able to pass through the gem or be manifest outside of the gem when Find familiar cannot? Or Conjure Animals cannot? Even incorporeal / ethereal creatures than can usually pass through full cover cannot pass through the Imprisonment gem.
@@ram3n_goblin Agreed, I don't think you would be allowed to do such a thing at many tables though. And unless you are starting at a very high level without having to have any plausible way survive long enough to get there even at the tables where this idea would be allowed (which I would lean towards accepting as a DM but the group would have to be right) your PC would be dead before they can get this trick going... I would personally as a DM lean that you are far less invulnerable than you think, but also less handicapped I think - this particular barrier stops all projectiles and travel in and out, but any magic that doesn't have to travel - the stuff described as you just have to see the target I think I'd allow to hit both ways, and being in your little gem with disadvantage on dex saves - you have nowhere to go. So enjoy being polymorphed inside your gem for an eternity as an immortal earthworm... Though I'd also be happy with the presented interpretation, but in both cases only as long as the table as a whole knows and is ok with it in advance, or it develops naturally as part of the campaign so they all had their say as you concocted this plan. As this is deep into the weeds with some rather bent if not actually broken rules that changes the way the game is played and won't sit will with some players.
@@agilemind6241because Manifest Mind stays up until it is dispelled. The wording of it also says 'You are casting as if in its location.' It is located outside the gem. The obvious downside is the mind can just be dispelled. (Although, DMs treat it like haste- a spell that's ungentlemanly to dispel.) You can't counterspell with the mind iirc. And you are limited to 5 spells per long rest. So, you're basically just a sentient magic item your party carries around. This whole tactic is just the apex of the turtle scribes style. No different mechanically than using resilient sphere, wall of force, or any other barrier spells that protect the wizard in full cover and allows them to blast from the mind.
This is a super neat idea. I had the idea of using stone shape to perfectly coat a party members plate armor with a thin layer of whichever gem, leaving a pocket in each gem large enough to imprison an ant for indestructible armor 1 gem per peice of armor so the party member could still move. My first idea was to put the druid from your video into a shield shaped gem that a party member would carry because I don't think druids get to cast catapult for movement. I would probably make a wizard tower shaped gem for the wizard.
as soon as you said minimize I understood the combo because that is something that I've been doing for a while now at level 9 just casting resilient sphere
This is a very clever concept! It would very certainly require DM approval... Not just to avoid the appearance of power gaming and/or deliberately frustrating your DM to the point it isn't fun anymore... There are two key words that I think are being misused here. 1. Cover. Generally, Cover represents the difficulty in hitting a target that is partially or totally protected by some barrier, and usually manifests as a bonus to AC or Disadvantage on the targeting roll. I don't think that invoking the Cover rule makes much sense in most of the cases we might want to use this. 2. Nothing. What does "nothing" include? We agree that it includes any physical object, but what about magic? psychic powers? sounds? heat? gravity? other types of noncorporeal energy? Given the intent of the spell (poorly-worded though it might be), I would maintain that _nothing_ probably includes all of these things. The _only_ thing that can pass through is light for the purposes of sight. For example, casting a light-producing spell would create light that can be seen, but can't illuminate anything. The only way to communicate through the gem would be some sort of sign language or Morse Code. Maybe semaphore for your private campaign? As always, if you and your DM agree that this would be a cool thing to have in your game, then by all means go for it. It just doesn't seem to me that it would work this way without making a ruling that alters the mechanics of the game.
Hey Chris - Find Familiar has a range of 10ft. and when summoned "Appearing in an unoccupied space within range, the familiar has the statistics of the chosen form, though it is a celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice) instead of a beast." So you just need to make sure you take materials to cast the spell several times.
Supreme Evil Overlord Solution: Anti-Magic Field subsection Spells. Any active spell or other magical effect on a creature or an object in the sphere is suppressed while the creature or object is in it. Then pickup the gem and throw it to maximum range away from the spell caster which should exceed the 30 foot range.
Solution 2: Cast Imprisonment on the mage in the Gem as I CAN see him and Imprison him again under my terms, not his. Since, his Wisdom save is terrible already as he needed to fail the save, I should be able to contain him under my own terms. Plaything of Sutek.
Solution 4: Throw a can of paint on the gem to destroy the mage's ability to communicate with his party. Or worse, swallow the gem. Sure you can do catapult damage to my guts potentially, but you won't be going very far. Plus if it was something like the Tarrasque or an Astral Devourer then exiting their gut would be...complicated.
This is a Hilarious Build; One thing to note; Mirage Arcane could let you shift the crystal palace you create with stone shape to actually look and feel like a non crystal palace. Generating stone walls, and architecture, beds and a desk. Various things of that nature so you don't feel like you are just living in a crystal for days. I would also question you on whether or not a Component that is not consumed can be the same component for multiple spells at once? For instance the gemstone that houses you shrunken body could also be the same component as the Magic Jar spell. If that was the case could you secure your body within the gemstone while possessing another creature? Idk if a soul could pass through it or not; What if you were already possessing another creature and cast imprisonment on your body? Interesting thoughts and questions.
Ha, your Gdoc "Guide about Wizards" was awesome and play-style-changing, so I am happy YT has led me here. And while the idea above is very creative, I would not allow it at my table, as the rules say nothing but light is allowed to pass the prison walls, which means no weave manipulation to me. That interpretation is debatable, but it seems to make the most sense to me.
Or you could just steal... be inspired by these ideas for your challenges. As I said in my own post this is a great alternative to a lich they would probably use lots of divination magic and minions to actually get things done... but that's probably true of most big bads.
And this is why prior editions of Imprisonment tended to stick the victim in suspended animation... This is hilarious and awesome. Good find by Ramen Goblin and thanks for the video on it.
I think an enemy could cast Antimagic Shell to get at you. This doesn't try to *end* the spell, so it technically avoids the clause about how hard it tis to end or dispel. It only *suppresses* the spell, so you'd be shunted out of the gem, and become a valid target. Staying within 10feet of you to keep you in the shell is a challenge but not impossible, so someone who knows your tactic could make a specific plan to combat you. But then they've just made it a potentially fair-ish fight for considerable resources, so still worth doing even against opponents that figure out this tactic.
The manifest mind feature of order of scribes would allow you to cast simulacrum outside your container no? The only problem would then be to have enough spell components for it. Bag of holding? Or is that considered extraplanar travel? Life-size quantity of snow would just be an inch high. The powdered ruby might become a problem tho.
@@aidenbrown7458 it actually does not. It states that it has to be on our turn. _That_ is why a lot of reactions don't work. "Whenever you cast a wizard spell on your turn, you can cast it as if you were in the spectral mind's space, instead of your own, using its senses. You can do so a number of times per day equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest."
This is what it says about longer casting times: Longer Casting Times Certain spells (including spells cast as rituals) require more time to cast: minutes or even hours. When you cast a spell with a casting time longer than a single action or reaction, you must spend your action each turn casting the spel, and you must maintain your concentration while you do so. If your concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don't expend a spell slot. If you want to try casting the spell again, you must start Over. So the question is: how does it interact with manifest mind?
@@aidenbrown7458 Well, depends when the trigger 'when you cast a spell' occurs. Is it only when you finish casting it? Because that does occur on your turn
Here's my main rules concern with with something like the Eyebite trick. If you can use it through full cover like that, this means you can also use it through a wall of force or forcecage, and the designers have clarified that you can't target spells on the other side of a wall of force even if the wording says "a target you can see". Does the "a target you can see" wording work fundamentally differently when you use actions in a spell description as compared to when you are casting the spell? Alternatively, are you able to use these spell actions from the location of your manifest mind?
This is a subject that every DM and table have to decide themselves, since the rules for targeting are vague. Spells like Telekinesis, Dragon's Breath, Haste, and Call Lightning seem to make a distinction between the actions a spell grants and the initial casting of the spell. A spell like Eyebite is far less distinct. On Treantmonk's server, we generally rule that using an action granted by a spell does not require you to fill the "clear path to the target" requirement of casting a spell. So once you cast the spell with Manifest mind, you're free to use the subsequent actions, obeying any restrictions in the text of the spell. I'd rule no on using spell actions from the manifest mind space.
Good morning Chris! I've just started the Cthulu Summoner build video in my quest! I'm in a campaign on Wednesdays that is currently level 12, I have a new character that is the Apothecary put out by the Dungeon Dudes. No combats yet, but the rp has been super fun! I know you normally avoid 3rd party content, but have you considered doing a build video for the Apothecary at all? Maybe a Pathogenist to highlight some disease spells? I'd be really curious to see an optimized take on the subclass! Have a great weekend! Much love, thanks for the entertaining videos! 💜
This is what I live for in D&D, but what was largely ripped from me in 5e. (I could choose to play past editions, but, everyone only wants to play 5e and doesn't want to bother learning other systems at all let alone a "defunct" past edition) An order of Gemstone wizards where this engemmed state is the final order and the desired goal is pretty thematically brilliant and could have ripple effects through the setting with wizards emphasizing gemstones more even from lower levels as their focuses and stuff.
Great another way to break the game with wizards 😂 Great vid, and kudos to Ramen Goblin for coming up with this bonkers combo. I had played a human wizard who achieved immortality by having a bunch of clones created within demiplanes. I don't remember the details but it was a while ago. I never thought this could be a thing
My personal choice is to use Imprisonment to store a clone for an instant respawn. Use wish to make a gem, 24 hrs later use wish to make a clone (no material components, no maturation period, no vessel needed to contain it), dress said clone in castoff gear, 24 hrs later use Imprisonment to contain the Clone (Imprisonment doesn't specify that the creature has to be living and a non living clone cannot pass a wisdom check) setting the end terms to be "In the event of my death" or "When the occupant speaks the word 'Exit'." As for the Magnificent Mansion, it wouldn't work as otherwise you could planeshift from inside the Mansion and thusly be free of the Imprisonment spell... despite planar travel being blocked... A genie warlock's vessel though... maybe.
I think this is the first time I have seen this chef but I have made enough sauces in the traditional French method to know that this would end up being absolutely delicious. I think I am going to make this next time I pick up a couple filet mignons (Filet Mignons are great but demand a sauce, in my opinion). I also like the way Jean-Pierre makes the process approachable. Also, if you master the basic process used in this recipe, you will basically have mastered many, many other sauces that use this exact same technique.
Very smart! I think without immovable object, one way the character could potentially take damage that the DM could rule is picking up the ruby and throwing it, the wizard inside taking damage from the impact of being thrown. I know physics usually isnt a serious option in dnd, but in this case it feels fitting and would be kind of funny. I would love to see what the ruby mage would do in response to being thrown as well.
Also this seems like an neat way to make like a Warhammer 40k dreadnaught or some other robotic player character. Having the wizard self imprison upon/into some super impressive golem is a neat "brain in a jar" concept character
Since you are placed inside of a "gemstone or similar object", could you not use a psi crystal for the object? It grants telepathy and would qualify for this, though would require attunement.
Used similar strategy in a game, where we were sieged by elementals - before fight, I conjured Tiny Hut. My party still decided to be them, and rushed in to melee as a druid, sorc, monk and rog, but I was able to decimate several groups of elementals before I had to leave the Hut. Hit-and-run tactic on an owl worked wornders there, including casts from Manifest Mind :)
Interesting concept. Would love to see more scribe wizard stuff as its my favorite wizard subclass and not many guides on how to make it compete with other subclasses and class builds.
Blade of Disaster gets 'em. Or a Bag of Devouring, Sphere of Annihilation, Teleport (doesn't kill but now the Wizard and gem are far away) etc. Blocking line of sight can be as easy as grabbing the gem and putting it in a pocket, casting Fog Cloud or similar magic, or applying a small amount of paint. Also, using a 9th-level Dispel Magic to release an enemy mage may seem like a bad idea, but if the mage only has 62 hit points I feel like it'll work out. Neat concept, definitely not an intended effect of the spell, but there are certainly ways around it.
Now this is the kind of stuff you expect Archmages to get up to. I hope they find a way to make this kind of shenanigans work without totally throwing off the balance of the game.
Hi Azeroth! If any of my builds seem disruptive, I always get approval from both the DM and the other players. I've made other builds that had a much worse affect on the spotlight of the game -- usually those get retired after one session!
1. Simply dispel the book and the wizard is out 10k gold and a ton of prep work. 2. Mental commands are not light- if psychic energy can't get through the gem, neither can mental commands. 3. We all know the design intent and we all know they don't have to say everything that anyone would ever come up with. Echo knights are still swinging their sword and scribe wizards are still using verbal, material, and somatic components to cast spells. The space the attacks come from is all that changes. The spell's energy would still have to transfer from the wizard to the book. Love you, but this is right up there with the DnD shorts dude that I'm firmly convinced has never actually played DnD.
Funny build! The spell should definitely specify that the imprisoned target it incapacitated, as I'm confident that was the design intent of the spell, so I would rule against this at my table, but funny for a one shot.
No, the design intent was exactly as written, and only one condition is specified. That condition being restrained and it's only in one form of the spell. The problem is that, rules as written, it would be extremely easy to kill a mage inside of one of these. A simple moonbeam would be enough, since it's just light which is allowed to travel through the spell. Now they're trapped in a gemstone taking 2D10 radiant damage. Also AOE spells, since they don't travel through things technically, they just affect everything in the area.
@@Sinsults Hard to say what the design intent was without asking the developers that wrote the spell. I have to imagine they did not intend for the shenanigans used in this build. Also, wouldn't being inside the gem provide full cover from AoE spells happening outside the gem?
@@423RedWolf Rules as written, most AOE spells aren't line of sight and don't travel through things. They just hit whatever is in the area. If you go rules as written, the mage inside the gem is extremely easy to evaporate in to dust. Also, if the creator of the spell intended for it to incapacitate, they would have made it incapacitate.
@@Sinsults There are a ton of oversights in the wording of 5e spells. What I am trying to get across is that the designer of the spell likely did not expect the wording they used in the spell description to have the gaps that make this build possible. Also it notes that nothing but light can pass through the gemstone, which I would interpret as being purely regarding visibility - spell effects certainly shouldn't be able to enter or leave the gemstone. I would argue the damaging effect of Moonbeam can't enter or leave the gemstone - if Moonbeam was cast outside the gemstone, and the gemstone is in the area of effect, the creature inside the gemstone can see the spell happening, but the "ghostly flames" can't enter the gemstone.
@@423RedWolf And that would be homebrew, which is perfectly fine but isn't the intent of of spell. The wording of the spell and the rules in the book make it clear. Nothing but light can pass through the gem. Moonbeam is light and everything in the light takes damage. No damage passes through the gem. Only light. Similarly, aoe spells don't say anything about damage passing through things. The damage just manifests in the area, taking effect on anything in that area. Just remember one important thing. If you can do it, then npcs can do it too, and the DM can be a lot more vicious with it than a player could. Make sure before using that spell that the whole table is in agreement on how it works. Personally, as a DM, I'd be far less likely to allow something that goes against rules as written AND makes a character functionally immortal. Mostly because I would instantly use it for a party wipe just to remind players that npcs can do anything player characters can.
I imagine this same wizard has (and uses) Magic Jar, Clone, and Demiplane to disappear and preserve himself as well. Besides being extremely hard to defeat, this would allow the Wizard to always appear in different locations and even with different appearances.
My wizard is in a cloned body grown in his demiplane. Which makes that body a native of that particular demiplane. This is important, because it means the Banishment spell (which can be cast via contingency) will immediately transport him safely to his demiplane.
Interestingly, if you also cast Imprisonment on your 11th level Sun Soul Monk, their 11th level feature, Searing Burst is neither a spell, nor an attack, and as such isn't affected by Total Cover (unless it's opaque... at which point, I'm not sure if it refers to the total cover being between affected creature and point of origin, or spell caster... probably an important discussion to the combo). 150ft range AoE that doesn't use a resource... Sure, it's not good damage, but it's one of the rare classes that can do something useful from inside their Imprisonment gem... And it's something you can do with a Sun Soul Monk, which made it really noteable for me.
Maximum RAW Russian Nesting Jar Bard: 1. Imprison (Magical Secret A) yourself into a nice 10k gemstone via Minimus Containment as here in the video. 2. Stone Shape (touch range cast from inside the Minimus Containment, Magical Secret B) the gemstone into the shape of a plant. Give it a few nice big roots and limbs or such. 3. Magic Aura (Magical Secret C, Touch) a Mask onto the gem to make it read to magic as though it were a Plant. 4. Awaken (Touch range, bard spell) the plant-like gemstone. Awaken reads in part, "The target (which is a valid target currently due to Magic Aura) gains an Intelligence of 10... gains the ability to speak one language you know... gains the ability to move its limbs, roots, vines... gains senses similar to a human's.” This is Instantaneous duration, so this is permanent, and the target gains this, it is not reliant on the target remaining a plant to retain these gained features. 5. Wait 24 hours for the Mask to wear off. 6. Sequester (touch range, Magical Secret D) the gemstone, which no longer reads as a creature and does not fall into a state of suspended animation. 7. Magic Aura the gemstone again, this time to Mask as humanoid. 8. Use Magic Jar (Magical Secret E) to possess the humanoid-like gemstone and move it into a container you brought with you. 9. Wait again for Magic Aura to fall off for maximum safety. 10. While possessing the gemstone, you use its game statistics except you retain alignment, Int/Wis/Cha, and your class features. Its game statistic ‘types’ have only been temporary, so it is still an object just as it originally was, and is not living, even if you possess it. Effects in summary: The gemstone can’t be cut or broken while Imprisonment remains in effect. Also, you don’t need to breathe, eat, or drink, and don’t age. Divination spells can’t locate or perceive you. The gemstone-body is invisible and it also can't be targeted by divination spells or perceived through scrying sensors created by divination spells. It can still speak and move and see around. Since it can't take damage Sequester will not end except for your chosen condition or dispelling. The Magic Jar container is safe inside the Minimus Containment, alongside your catatonic body that (reminder) doesn't need to breathe, eat, drink, and doesn't age. If Magic Jar ends anyways via dispel, your body is within 100 feet of you since it is inside of you. Awaken never granted life to the target, so the host body cannot 'die' and therefore threaten to kill you on a Cha save, even if something could harm it - remember it is nearly indestructible due to Imprisonment. You possess the body of an invisible, nigh-indestructible plant-like non-creature gemstone. The only reasonable ways to see you are Faerie Fire, Blindsight, True Sight, or many bags of flour. You are not a valid target for the usual spells like Hold Person, but also not valid for creature-target spells like Banishment, Eldritch Blast, and Magic Missile. Consider taking Counterspell as your last Magical Secret, to defend against Dispel Magic, or play a Wizard if you have a druid or bard buddy to cast Awaken for you - the rest of this combo are Wizard spells.
It's exactly because of misunderstandings and vague wordings like these that I think WotC should just make the rules for choosing a target clear and unified: - To be able to pick a target for a spell or effect, the target must not be behind total cover from you or must not be heavily obscured, unless otherwise specified. Target means not only a creature or an object, but a space as well. Total cover means it's completely behind a barrier, whether clear or opaque. Simply put - default is that all spells and effects require unobstructed line of sight to the target, whether a point in space for the effect to originate from, or an object or creature. And then, if you want something to not work like that, you write it in the effect, like for example Bardic inspiration, where a target needs to hear you, or Dimension Door, which explicitly states you don't need to see the target destination. That would make things so much more clear, less unintentionally exploitable and will reduce arguments over how things work. If WotC haven't written that you don't need to see, then you need to see.
I think it actually varies from spell to spell weather a transparent barrier would block an effect. For instance a magic missile or a fireball that streaks from your hand would be blocked, but misty step just need line of sight. One of these would be blocked by a wall of force, the other would be blocked by a fog cloud. Now obviously both a force cage and an imprisonment are going to block teleportation in or out, but both mindwhip and mind sliver should work to cross such a barrier, as would a watery sphere or a charm or banishment spell. Also while you couldn't use it to hear you could speak with a minor illusion.
@@Notsogoodguitarguy your not wrong, that being said I think even with clearer language that some spells would be worried about line of sight, some would be worried about cover, and some would be worried with both.
With that stones shape combo could you put the gem in another gem worth less than the required amount? It would give the gem protection from dispel magic since it is also behind total cover
For a stationary NPC make a permanent Magnificent Mansion inside the prison, I don't think this will actually change anything... but it will be much more pleasant. They can still use all the other tricks to effect the outside world... I feel like this is a good alternative option to a litch for a campaigns big bad. They could also put stuff inside that permanent Magnificent Mansion before imprisoning themselves. Maybe have the Gemstone be part of the crown jewels of a kingdom, also there is no reason that the gem couldn't be independently enchanted beforehand(maybe with 3 charges of 9th level counterspell set to go off if anyone attempts a 9th level dispel magic on the gem, the sort of thing that can be recharged by having a caster expend a 9th level slot. Or the gem would be an enchanted spell focus, so as long as your in contact with it (say standing inside) you could use this while having your spell book in your hand.
This is a really cool idea, but I think you paraphrased the spell to say that the gemstone is "indestructible", when the spell only says it "can't be cut or broken", which I would argue means that it plausibly can be Disintegrated. That doesn't completely invalidate the idea of course, but it's worth noting that there are a few ways around it.
you could say that but theres no way RAI is that this 9th level spell can be destroyed by disintegrate, if it could it would be in the spell description like wall of force
@@emma-rz7mf If the wizard is using Imprisonment on themselves as a buff spell, I think we're well past RAI. I wouldn't use Disintegrate as a solution for Imprisonment on an NPC in a normal campaign, but if we're agreeing to use precise RAW for unintended interactions then I think it's fair for the DM to use the same, especially when the result is that it makes the game more fun (being completely safe is kind of boring).
@@TheDersitePhantom im just saying i think disintegration falls under the breaking the gem category. thats like saying "you cant kill me" "im not killing you im slaying you"
That Magnificent Mansion part made me thinking. Doesn't "... nothing else can pass through, even by means of teleportation or planar travel." part prohibits leaving from the ruby to an extradimensional space? Does even using extradimensional spells and objects considered being on the same plane of existance? Can someone communicate with its familiar from an extradimensional space? (For example a Genie warlock communicating with its familiar when the warlock is in their vessel and the familiar is outside.)
I absolutely love the concept. I've never played a 20th level character before, but this one sounds like it won the game... unless someone throws the gem into Mount Doom.
The catapult strategy is SO funny. I think you could use it as any subclass of wizard if you really had to. As long as you're cool with only dealing catapult damage 😭
I think it is a really interesting idea. With my DM hat on there is something I think you missed. The PC wearing the ring(s) is moving their arms around to grab things, make melee attacks, do somatic castings and so on. This would put the 1 inch Wizard in a constant state of being in a ROLLERCOSTER, holy G-force effects lol. If I was the DM for something like this I would call for acrobatic checks and concentration checks (from the tiny wizard) if the Ruby ring is being carried by someone, maybe even auto bludgeoning damage if he isn't strapped down somehow. The ring could be set down to negate these conditions. Clever use of the spell though and a very interesting self created problem for the party. RP wise they almost become a sentient magic item in a way.
one thing to note, you talk about being able to dump constitution since you aren't expecting to take damage. however, if you go around flinging your gemstone around via catapult then you would (should) absolutely be procing concentration checks, they're not just from damage. that aside, this does give me an idea for a wizard NPC that, via wizard shenanigans, made a hollow, tower sized gemstone that they then built their tower inside. So now they're free to continue their research entirely uninterrupted.
If I was DM'ing I'd rule that the wizard would need to make constitution saving throws to avoid throwing up if they're going to catapult themselves around. :p
Clever thought about the affects of catapult on the ruby mage and his/her "office." Sounds like an opportunity to roleplay that defaulting a creature with catapult is a last resort, since "it wreaks havoc on my library!" Gives a good justification to avoid more degenerate playstyles. As for added concentration saves or damage to the mage from being sloshed around -- seems a valid concern. I'd note that 1 inch creatures would be much more tolerant of g forces due to the square-cube law.
@@ram3n_goblin its not about the potential harm of the g-forces, its the "being tossed around" aspect. its specifically called out in....i believe the section on concentration checks in general. but it could be elsewhere, either way it talks about how a caster on a ship in a storm might be asked to make concentration a dc10 concentration check. My interpretation of that was that it was more about the general disorientation/dizziness.
@@sillyking1991 I completely agree that's something the DM should consider if they think that would make the story more compelling and fun. I was just noting that our intuition on what counts as "being tossed around a lot" might not be accurate for a creature 1 inch tall. Being on a ship in a storm sucks, but it doesn't suck as much for a mouse, and it really really sucks for an elephant.
@@ram3n_goblin i suppose you could be right about that. Im just not so sure that once you get to the point of beung tumbled end over end, the difference really matters much. At least in terms of disorientation. Either way, im glad to have contributed :)
Wouldn't your tiny wizard break all his tiny little bones if he catapulted his gem prison against his foes? Or is he also immune because even kinetic force or gravity can't pass through the gem? If so which direction is down in his tiny prison. Is there any gravity inside the gem? If light passes through, shouldn't he be able to be targeted by radiant damage ?
Now I want a group of high-level therianthrope wizards that have names suspiciously similar to characters in the Sonic Hedgehog series and each do battle from within their own personal Chaos Emerald. XD
ROFLMAO. Reminds me of a Pathfinder 1st ed game, where we found a high level way to make someone completely invulnerable to damage. I was playing a damage sponge paladin, based on redirecting damage to themselves and healing with lay on hands, and of course, I had the "sacrificial oath" spell (for 1 minute per level, and this is a only paladin spell so their spells go only to 4th level and become available at 13th level), you redirect all damage to yourself. Then have someone cast temporal stasis. This makes the time stop to pass for the target, and nothing can harm it since it's frozen in time. It's a wizard/sorcerer 8th level spell though, it's permanent and it has a costly component, but it would let me cast sacrificial oath on the while party with all my 4th level slots, and then intentionally fail the saving throw for temporal stasis, and have infinite damage redirection to an indestructible target. Obviously this was brought to the DM's attention (temporal stasis was introduced in the game for story purposes), and we decided it was too silly, but the image of the big bad being unable to damage anyone in the final fight (we knew they didn't have access to Dispel Magic) at 17th level while I stood with one knee to the ground, and the sword held like a cross, was just too funny to us
Fun NPC idea, a Ruby wizard who has forgotten how to end the spell (perhaps tricked into taking a text into their gem with a Glyph of Warding [modify memory] cast upon it or cursed by the gods for their hubris).
Bizzare strategies like this are what justify the existence of minmaxing. Not only is it powerful, not only is it majestic Bizarre, but it’s filled with insane potential from the DM’s side as well. Imagine a powerful world leader receiving guidance from the wizard within the crown. Or a quest to kill a lich who has become his own Phycalatery. Per perhaps a wizard who cast imprisonment on himself to escape a calamity, and now the players need to find them
I wish the imprisonment spell worked on objects too. I'd just have a bunch of cloning jars in gemstones and set the conditions for the imprisonment spell ending "when the jar within breaks" or some such. Imagine a gnome wizard dying, then their naked clone, with full HP and spell slots (maybe), spawns out of the Barbarians backpack ready to go.
dude imagine this wizard, after being the sole survivor of a near TPK, beating the BBEG to death using their gemstone and the catapult spell. oh my god. that would be so embarrassing. you're fighting evil goku or something and you slowly beat him to death with a rock over several in-game minutes and he can't do anything
I combined your necromancer build with remarkable recovery and an artificers periapt of wound closure to create the cheesiest of cheeses. DM let me do witherbloom background for good berry, and he’s a true master of life and death
Powerful lich: “muhaha I’ve captured you and will now bully you until the end of time” The level 6 druid: uno reverse card Definitely putting one of these into my game, travelling the world in search of someone who can cast a 9th level Dispel Magic.
Try this build. I call it the Soul Stealer paladin. 11 in wizard, 6 in paladin. 11 in wizard is for 6th level spells and Soul Jar. 6 is so the paladin can always ALWAYS make their own DC save due to the paladin aura being so broken. A +15 to CHA saves with 20 charisma before any other modifiers, which you'll have a few extra from war wizard and items and just general rolls and yeah. And if you find anything that further boosts CHA, each boost of CHA is +2 to your save. There is no risk to soul jar now. Just spam it until it succeeds. If the vessel dies, it doesn't matter, you make your own DC auto pass and just go back to the jar.
IMO total cover behind transparent materials RAW is meant to be different to the other covers - as logically its situational as to if you can effectively target them - a thin sheet of glass doesn't stop an arrow, its quite predictable where your shot will go as it penetrates, and you can definitively see them to know where to shoot. Where a solid opaque wall you have no idea where to shoot and with the fractional covers the mix of materials in the way even if they are transparent so you can see through them provide some element of protection as your attack can catch the edges and deflect, not to mention actively distort your perception thanks to their refractive index differential with the air. And of course there is the case of the 'impenetrable' transparent barrier, in which case sure you can shoot at them, but it won't do anything. In effect by wording it that way it leaves it up to the DM if this transparent full body cover counts as 'completely concealing' and thus "total cover" or not. Not the clearest wording but then its the D&D lots of it is more unclear than it should be, leaving much up to interpretation. However as ultimately with a game like this that is the nature of the beast to some extent, weird interactions in a high magic setting are simply inevitable you can't fault the writers too much. I think in this case I'd probably rule any spell that isn't projectile in its functional description but targets a creature you can see would be able to function both ways, making the wizard far less safe than they think themselves to be, but also far less handicapped. Though I have no objection if the player really wants the handicap but true invulnerability version either, as long as this particular transparent barrier is always treated consistently. (Plus it could be fun for the BBEG to wheel out the now entirely insane wizard who has spent far to long trapped on their own that was part of these players previous party that failed/ misplaced the rock at some point).
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"Oh my, there's are quite a few of you. Oksar the Timid here, charmed to make your acquaintance. No cause for concern, it's really quite comfortable in here, though you would not believe the rent. I'd be happy to take any questions..."
You are a gem. Pun intended.
Okay, so what is your take? 1:10 The Damage/Effect is Restrained. "You create a magical restraint to hold a creature..." is the text. A Restrained creature has a movement speed of zero. So I suppose a wizard might use Mage Hand and Unseen Servant to get around in a minimized Stone Shaped gem room. However, the room may be shrunk down, but these spell effects would be normal sized. The Restrained Wizard also suffers Disadvantage on attacks. That would not be a problem for Eyebite and a few other spells, but in general this might be considered a big down side.
I have a few questions, actually.
Given that your character does not have the Observant feat, did you find you ever had any difficulty listening in on the rest of your party (Detect Thoughts and perceiving through your familiar notwithstanding)?
Were there any particular reasons for your racial choice of Kobold and your two-level dip into Druid?
If you had the opportunity to play a lower-level version of this concept (e.g. your character crossed an archmage and got trapped in a gemstone), how do you think your build and tactics would change?
@sigiltech "Despite my seclusion, I feel very well aware of my surroundings. My translucent accommodations can float thanks to my 6th level Immovable Objects spell, and, as you started, my at-will Detect Thoughts helps me know when to reach out with my Telepathy. But the key to my awareness, especially hearing, is by faithful magical instantiation, the Manifest Mind. Its mind is linked with mine, and shares all that it sees and hears, with no action required on my part, in contrast to mind riding a familiar.
No one chooses the circumstances of their birth, my dear, but my draconic air fits well with my Dragon Stary Form, don't you think? In this state, I become an unrivaled caster of my favorite spell, Telekinesis, as my Intelligence never faulters. I can only cast non-touch spells outside my gem 6 times a day, so a long duration spell I can continue to exert over multiple encounters is of prime importance. When I was theorizing my gem tactics before I moved in here, I thought that my draconic cry would be an effective way to aid my comrades, but alas no enemies can hear my roar!
Hmm, were I a younger mage in this arrangement non-consensually, I think my first concern would be how to target creatures with my spells. I hear that Tricky clerics can spell cast through a double at a very low level. Wildfire druids also have a spell platform. I submit my humble option that no spell drone matches the scouting potential nor the durability of the Manifest Mind."
That was creative, well played.
The idea of a tiny immortal wizard, in an indestructible gemstone, flinging himself around by the Catapult spell feels like an episode of Rick and Morty.
Or when Boo turned Vegito into a jaw breaker.
OMG, you can use the ruby you are inside as the material component for the Artificer's Homunculus infusion, and literally travel around inside your homunculus. There are so many amazing applications of this concept, I love it.
That’s amazing! Then you don’t have to rely on a teammate to pick up your ruby I suppose. Or could u conjure a guy to carry you around?
The tiny servant spell also do something similar dough for only 8 hours at a time. The homunculus would be better but it would cost more levels in artificer and you won't be able to reset it if it dies. Can a tiny servant die if it's made from a instructable gym?
@@Dragoon42 Ooooh, I hadn't thought about doing it with Tiny Servant. I also realized you could do something similar with the Creation Bard's Dancing Item... I'm struggling with figuring out how to use them best though. The Homunculus can deliver your Touch spells, which gives it a little bit of oomph... Honestly, using the original Ruby Mage build and making the ruby your Tiny Servant to let you move around makes the most sense to me... But I can see a lot of different pieces that could definitely come together for some variants of the build!
First of all, the Raven Queen called, and she is angry. Second, you've just provided us all with a great NPC with which to frustrate our parties. Thanks!!!
One particular point about this strategy: if you are actually a player looking to take advantage of this, you would actually want the DM to rule that you can't directly target people from inside the gem, and would need something like Manifest Mind or Find Familiar in order to cast spells outside the gem. Because if the gem does not count as total cover to prevent you from directly targeting people with spells, it can't logically count as total cover to prevent enemy spellcasters from directly targeting you with spells.
I don’t think the word “restraint” is the problem. It’s not Restrained the condition, as we can infer because one of the spell options, the chaining option, specifically calls out the restrained condition while other options do not. The bigger problem I see is the wording for the minimus containment option state that NOTHING can pass into or out of the gem, even through magical means. That means no spell casting out of the gem. It would be a VERY generous reading to say it’s OK to cast spells through a familiar or animated spellbook outside of the gem. The magic for the spell still comes from the caster, not from the familiar or book.
Well, I don’t really know about that. If you’re one inch tall, what about getting an inch tall standing barrier to put in your crystal? Maybe an inch of adamantine?
@@DukeTroutexactly, the wording is very broad, for this exact reason. Nothing inti or out of the gem means nothing
Would it not be better to have a hireling be turned invisible while carrying you? You make all the attacks while invisible
After over 50 years and 5+ editions of the game, the formula for the Lich's Phylactery has finally been uncovered.
I use Minimus Imprisonment as a way to store my body nearby while I'm using Magic Jar to pilot another body. It's dangerous to use Magic Jar if your body isn't near you, so keeping it safe in a gemstone you can wear around your neck or put in your pocket is a good way to avoid some of the risk.
That's actually a smart idea, while the Clone spell certainly mitigates some of the risk of magic jar it can be difficult to get back into action if things go awry.
I agree! The spells on that character sheet also make a really good template for DMs to use for liches who are currently acting through their phylactery. Add the classics like Magic Jar, Clone and Simulacrum and you're set on the mechanics for your bbeg. Now to just add mcguffins and prophecies that let your party catch them when they're vulnerable.
I have long thought that a self-applied Hedged Prison in a demiplane linked to an elaborate tiny model of a castle and library would be a fantastic retirement for a wizard for as long as they might wish to remain retired. I did NOT ever figure out how to be Imprisoned and still actively contribute to a group in combat. Wow.
Just a few things: first of all I love how watching your videos I knew scribe wizard would be getting a reference once you started laying out spellcasting restrictions. It’s exciting to spin forward concepts we’ve previously learned.
Secondly, I LOLd when you said “theyve spent one action and they’ve released a high level wizard from an imprisonment spell. Congratulations!”
Finally, RamenGoblin has a beautiful mind. Really thinks outside the box.
Or in this case, inside the box.
Yet again…
I 110% admit that I had never even considered this concept.
Well done Mr. Goblin!
Just ramen please, Mr. Goblin is my father.
I highly disgree with the list of things that can pass through the Imprisonment object. Obviously "nothing can pass through" includes magic. So any spell that targets you cannot affect anything outside of the gem, Cone of Cold has a range of Self but it obviously can't go through the gem, so Eye Bite cannot either. If Find Familiar can't be cast through the gem, then why would manifest mind be able to pass through the gem? Incorporeal creatures can't pass through the gem, so neither should your manifest mind.
@@agilemind6241 This is all within the realm of theory, DM fiat, conversation, and a joint understanding at a table. Treantmonk and I agreed before the session that Manifesting a Mind outside of the prison didn't count as passing something through the barrier. Similarly, telepathically commanding the Mind that's outside the gem or originating spells from that origin does not violate the prison. This is simply our intuition of what counts as passing something through the barrier.
If you take an interpretation of "nothing can pass through" to the extreme, it beings to include absurd things like information or emotions. The ruby mage couldn't make a funny face at a friend, since that would be sending a smile through; he couldn't pantomime anything that would send an idea through the barrier. If light passes through, the trapped creature can inevitably affect the world to some extent. This build takes that possibility to the extreme for high level tables that think this concept is flavorful and fun.
@@ram3n_goblin Fair enough. ramen goblin from here on out
The thought of an invincible wizard with the catapult spell mastery, smacking everyone left and right like a demented frog from within their ruby tickles me pink.
This is the best use of catapult ever IMO
My goodness, this is diabolical. I really appreciate the depth of commitment to surprising shenanigans to have come up with this particular bit of wizardly nonsense. Well played Ramen Goblin, well played indeed.
As soon as you mentioned imprisonment I knew where this was going. I’m disappointed I didn’t think of it myself. Catapult was the only spell I didn’t think of. I did however think of affixing the gem to the awakened spell book and have it being carried around by my simulacrum.
How would doing this to a simulacrum as a backup wizard? You could make an infinity gauntlet.
I really enjoy these videos showcasing the noodley, crunchy, boundary pushing concepts. Well done!
Glad you enjoy it!
@@TreantmonksTemplethis video really brought me back to the 3.5 Char. Opt. Boards theory-crafting. Top quality once again sir!
This make the character concept where the character is a normal guy who becomes a "Warlock" but their patron is just a high level wizard who provides spells even more plausible.
they really saw echo knight become the most OP fighter and said "You know what, wizards need a subclass like that"
Echo Knight is also one of the best multiclasses for a wizard doing this. Be a bladesinger stuck in an invulnerable gem and make your attacks from your echo's location.
@@craigauty8874 With Otiluke's resilient sphere you won't have to wait until level 20 to use it. It's not as strong, but still very usefull.
Wow! Nice video! Believe or not, I had a player that casted Imprisonment on the Echo Knight of the team. So we made an indestructible fighter!
Holy shit that's genius. And the manifest echo could just walk around with the thing 🤯
2 Levels in Cleric: Trickery Domain allow once per day 1 Minute of Casting all spells(not using up your limited uses of Project Mind), and doesn't impede you from getting 9th level spells. Since it's only 2 levels in Cleric and not 3 levels, you still get Spell Mastery at 18th in Wizard(although you lose out on Signature Spells).
That's a marvelous addition. I wish I could give you more than just 1 up vote.
I once made friends with an olliephant and he wished to help me so badly (planar binding and other coercion were surprisingly not involved this time but are optional for the less friendly) with his magic immunity feature that he can share with nearby cratures, but him dying was of great concearn, making him really small and stuffing him inside a gem on my ring made that a much more safe and enjoyable partnership, nevermind that the Holliephant's trait makes you, him, and most importantly the gemstone immune to spells of 5th level or lower, even if upcast, making your imprisonment UNDISPELLABLE
Thank you sir, for you have just taught me how to make a ring of greater spell resistance.
This is actually a really neat use of the spell, one could also e.g. stuff a high level paladin in there to benefit from their auras - or consider the thought that all rings of protection are actually failed paladins who had low Cha that got stuffed into the ring?
@@ImpaleTheLiving hell yeah, get yourself a ring of limited spell immunity today!
For the low low price of 1 conjure celestial/true polymorph, 1 planar binding and 1 imprisonment!
@@mirkofraccastoro7573 You'll also need to Guise or Charm or just convince the creature to keep the aura up as well. otherwise it can suppress it and you've just got a fancy rock elephant
This is a wonderful concept. It reminds me of a broken Vampire I had back in 3.5. He lived in a bag of holding because, ya know, Sunlight. Only came out to help during indoors sessions or dungeons. Had a feat that gave him stacking +1 to all rolls for the rest of the day whenever he killed something with his drain. So he carried a few bags of tricks and fed off of small animals to power up. Whenever a real fight started the party would pull him out of a bag and throw him at the enemy. 3.5 was delightfully broken, especially with undead PCs or necromancers.
"What are you going to do this weekend, Wizard?"
"Oh you know, hitting the gem."
goddamn this comment is underrated as fuck
@@TherronKeen Thanks. I have my moments.
Oh thank you for the inspiration! Imagine a nefarious wizard imprisoned in a jeweled circlet. the party unaware, strange things go on that seem to defy the party investigation: Monsters get heads up of the party whereabouts (the villains Manifest mind gives the creatures info, etc) and even the most dispatchable creatures seem to have a grasp on the party's common tactics. The little spy within the eye of the circlet betrays them all, can they figure out who it is.
As a dm, I want to thank you for strahd von zarovich, as he will now be a blood ruby mage.
*player picks up Strahd's ruby ring and yeets it into the Ivlis RIver.* Enjoy your 20 acid damage a turn while you are stuck in your gem!
@@dwgautierahahaah. I was think the same thing about sunlight. The gem idea is definitely flawed for a vampire.
@@djmor693 Your idea actually has me excited to give Strahd an AMBER ring. Maybe the ring can give him DR 5 all damage but it is canceled if Ireena is within 25 feet of him. RP his connection with the ring and the amber temple is interrupted by his love/obsession with Ireena. Also you can add a hint about the ring by some old ritual at the amber temple that the PC's can discover if they go there. I'm running CoS right now and I think I'm going to do this!
I really like the tie in to the amber temple. If you made the lich in the amber temple his high wizard, than you can find a scroll for this 9th level spell. Maybe even a gem.
@@dwgautierin van richtens tower I mean
I knew about this before this video!
Though…not before ramen goblin told me, but it counts!
Okay, one thing I have to mention: you need a 10,000 gp gem, and like you said,’you definitely have to be 1 inch tall, so it’s gonna get a bit claustrophobic in there. So you quest (or send the PCs to quest) for the largest gemstone you can get that’s worth at least 10.000 gp, like an uncut chunk of cheap quartz the size of a truck, so you have a nice big home and plenty of room to move around. Not great for combat, but someone/something fun to have the PCs meet.
Catapulting yourself across the universe, you've also invented space travel if there are no spelljammers!
Using this idea with a tiny house or wizard's tower in a crystal snow-globe sounds amusing and fun.
Putting a scribes wizard in a full cover box was one of the early things I thought of while watching your old scribes video.
Since then Ive had a scribes wizard in my optimized party and have written alot of text on optimizing the attainment and function of the object they hang out in (can be human sized after all).
With things like rope trick, a steel cube with 1 hole near the person carrying it to give touch spells yet still be fully obscured, ways to transport things in and out without misty step, how to get certain things in the cube from others that require a "free space" to create them, a small ring of bars with a tiny height that have a droppable cover you can close to regain full cover, ways allies to give you full cover without using the internal cover, using phantom steeds to carry the cube, arcane lock to improve its unbreckability, manufacturing of better cubes, ect, ect.
Early on I had a plasmoid like you recently showed in a oneshot, though I realized it being a plasmoid was unnessisary. You just had to be able to get into a hollow cube.
Using the 9th level spell imprissionment as an option for a cube at high level is, fortunately for me in this case, quite easy to stumble into. Since I happened to already have so much developed similiar to that.
If it was a strategy that was 9th level spells only and wasnt similiar to activities I was already doing I think it would be alot harder to notice.
I feel like this is a great settup for a wizard that was looking for a diferent form of immortality than lichdom. Maybe he wanted to be a magic sword forever and made a sword with a big ass gem in the hilt
Great way to give a player an intelligent magical item that's always seeking entertainment to pass the millennia
I actually used resilient sphere at spell level 4 to pull off similar combo as a Scribes Wizard. I had to concentrate on it, but it was a lower level spell and it served me very well in most situations that required this type of tactic (I found that being invulnerable for proficiency times per day number of spells was plenty to get the job done). Anyway, cool video, looking forward to the new series you announced Chris
This is such a neat idea, and it can work for a villain or mentor NPC too! Thanks Ramen Goblin!
The wording of the 9TH LEVEL imprisionment spell, "nothing else (besides light) can pass through", is pretty clear to disallow spells, mind, etc. This is not a protection spell like prismatic sphere, it is an imprisionment spell.
I think this is just a case of scribes introducing a mechanic that was not conceived of when imprisonment was designed. This would be disallowed in the spell description if it were relevant at the time. But since it isn't... Fair game!
This is all within the realm of theory, DM fiat, conversation, and a joint understanding at a table. Treantmonk and I agreed before the session that Manifesting a Mind outside of the prison didn't count as passing something through the barrier. Similarly, telepathically commanding the Mind that's outside the gem or originating spells from that origin does not violate the prison. This is simply our intuition of what counts as passing something through the barrier.
If you take an interpretation of "nothing can pass through" to the extreme, it begins to include absurd things like information or emotions. The ruby mage couldn't make a funny face at a friend, since that would be sending a smile through; he couldn't pantomime anything that would send an idea through the barrier. If light passes through, the trapped creature can inevitably affect the world to some extent. This build takes that possibility to the extreme for high level tables that think this concept is flavorful and fun.
@@mrwaffleman8732 Why would the manifest mind be able to pass through the gem or be manifest outside of the gem when Find familiar cannot? Or Conjure Animals cannot? Even incorporeal / ethereal creatures than can usually pass through full cover cannot pass through the Imprisonment gem.
@@ram3n_goblin Agreed, I don't think you would be allowed to do such a thing at many tables though. And unless you are starting at a very high level without having to have any plausible way survive long enough to get there even at the tables where this idea would be allowed (which I would lean towards accepting as a DM but the group would have to be right) your PC would be dead before they can get this trick going...
I would personally as a DM lean that you are far less invulnerable than you think, but also less handicapped I think - this particular barrier stops all projectiles and travel in and out, but any magic that doesn't have to travel - the stuff described as you just have to see the target I think I'd allow to hit both ways, and being in your little gem with disadvantage on dex saves - you have nowhere to go. So enjoy being polymorphed inside your gem for an eternity as an immortal earthworm... Though I'd also be happy with the presented interpretation, but in both cases only as long as the table as a whole knows and is ok with it in advance, or it develops naturally as part of the campaign so they all had their say as you concocted this plan. As this is deep into the weeds with some rather bent if not actually broken rules that changes the way the game is played and won't sit will with some players.
@@agilemind6241because Manifest Mind stays up until it is dispelled. The wording of it also says 'You are casting as if in its location.' It is located outside the gem. The obvious downside is the mind can just be dispelled. (Although, DMs treat it like haste- a spell that's ungentlemanly to dispel.) You can't counterspell with the mind iirc. And you are limited to 5 spells per long rest. So, you're basically just a sentient magic item your party carries around.
This whole tactic is just the apex of the turtle scribes style. No different mechanically than using resilient sphere, wall of force, or any other barrier spells that protect the wizard in full cover and allows them to blast from the mind.
This is a super neat idea.
I had the idea of using stone shape to perfectly coat a party members plate armor with a thin layer of whichever gem, leaving a pocket in each gem large enough to imprison an ant for indestructible armor 1 gem per peice of armor so the party member could still move.
My first idea was to put the druid from your video into a shield shaped gem that a party member would carry because I don't think druids get to cast catapult for movement.
I would probably make a wizard tower shaped gem for the wizard.
as soon as you said minimize I understood the combo because that is something that I've been doing for a while now at level 9 just casting resilient sphere
This is a very clever concept! It would very certainly require DM approval... Not just to avoid the appearance of power gaming and/or deliberately frustrating your DM to the point it isn't fun anymore... There are two key words that I think are being misused here.
1. Cover. Generally, Cover represents the difficulty in hitting a target that is partially or totally protected by some barrier, and usually manifests as a bonus to AC or Disadvantage on the targeting roll. I don't think that invoking the Cover rule makes much sense in most of the cases we might want to use this.
2. Nothing. What does "nothing" include? We agree that it includes any physical object, but what about magic? psychic powers? sounds? heat? gravity? other types of noncorporeal energy?
Given the intent of the spell (poorly-worded though it might be), I would maintain that _nothing_ probably includes all of these things. The _only_ thing that can pass through is light for the purposes of sight. For example, casting a light-producing spell would create light that can be seen, but can't illuminate anything. The only way to communicate through the gem would be some sort of sign language or Morse Code. Maybe semaphore for your private campaign?
As always, if you and your DM agree that this would be a cool thing to have in your game, then by all means go for it. It just doesn't seem to me that it would work this way without making a ruling that alters the mechanics of the game.
I love these kinds of videos! And it’s so great to see you highlighting ideas from members of your community as well! Keep up the good work, Chris!
These are the types of interactions that made me fall in love with D&D. Thanks for sharing!
Hey Chris - Find Familiar has a range of 10ft. and when summoned "Appearing in an unoccupied space within range, the familiar has the statistics of the chosen form, though it is a celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice) instead of a beast." So you just need to make sure you take materials to cast the spell several times.
Supreme Evil Overlord Solution: Anti-Magic Field subsection Spells. Any active spell or other magical effect on a creature or an object in the sphere is suppressed while the creature or object is in it. Then pickup the gem and throw it to maximum range away from the spell caster which should exceed the 30 foot range.
Solution 2: Cast Imprisonment on the mage in the Gem as I CAN see him and Imprison him again under my terms, not his. Since, his Wisdom save is terrible already as he needed to fail the save, I should be able to contain him under my own terms. Plaything of Sutek.
Solution 3: Have a creature with Burrow transport the gem over 300 feet below in the Earth for temporary solution to the Wizards interference.
Solution 4: Throw a can of paint on the gem to destroy the mage's ability to communicate with his party. Or worse, swallow the gem. Sure you can do catapult damage to my guts potentially, but you won't be going very far. Plus if it was something like the Tarrasque or an Astral Devourer then exiting their gut would be...complicated.
Solution 5: Have a giant throw the gem. Max range of a boulder is 240'
This is a Hilarious Build; One thing to note; Mirage Arcane could let you shift the crystal palace you create with stone shape to actually look and feel like a non crystal palace. Generating stone walls, and architecture, beds and a desk. Various things of that nature so you don't feel like you are just living in a crystal for days.
I would also question you on whether or not a Component that is not consumed can be the same component for multiple spells at once? For instance the gemstone that houses you shrunken body could also be the same component as the Magic Jar spell. If that was the case could you secure your body within the gemstone while possessing another creature? Idk if a soul could pass through it or not; What if you were already possessing another creature and cast imprisonment on your body? Interesting thoughts and questions.
Ha, your Gdoc "Guide about Wizards" was awesome and play-style-changing, so I am happy YT has led me here. And while the idea above is very creative, I would not allow it at my table, as the rules say nothing but light is allowed to pass the prison walls, which means no weave manipulation to me. That interpretation is debatable, but it seems to make the most sense to me.
Chris stop making wizards stronger than the DM challenge (impossible)
Or you could just steal... be inspired by these ideas for your challenges. As I said in my own post this is a great alternative to a lich they would probably use lots of divination magic and minions to actually get things done... but that's probably true of most big bads.
And this is why prior editions of Imprisonment tended to stick the victim in suspended animation...
This is hilarious and awesome. Good find by Ramen Goblin and thanks for the video on it.
I think an enemy could cast Antimagic Shell to get at you.
This doesn't try to *end* the spell, so it technically avoids the clause about how hard it tis to end or dispel.
It only *suppresses* the spell, so you'd be shunted out of the gem, and become a valid target.
Staying within 10feet of you to keep you in the shell is a challenge but not impossible, so someone who knows your tactic could make a specific plan to combat you. But then they've just made it a potentially fair-ish fight for considerable resources, so still worth doing even against opponents that figure out this tactic.
The manifest mind feature of order of scribes would allow you to cast simulacrum outside your container no? The only problem would then be to have enough spell components for it. Bag of holding? Or is that considered extraplanar travel? Life-size quantity of snow would just be an inch high. The powdered ruby might become a problem tho.
Sadly, no.
It specifically states that the spell takes an action, so not more or less, this is why reactions can’t work
@@aidenbrown7458 it actually does not. It states that it has to be on our turn. _That_ is why a lot of reactions don't work.
"Whenever you cast a wizard spell on your turn, you can cast it as if you were in the spectral mind's space, instead of your own, using its senses. You can do so a number of times per day equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest."
This is what it says about longer casting times:
Longer Casting Times Certain spells (including spells cast as rituals) require more time to cast: minutes or even hours. When you cast a spell with a casting time longer than a single action or reaction, you must spend your action each turn casting the spel, and you must maintain your concentration while you do so. If your concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don't expend a spell slot. If you want to try casting the spell again, you must start Over.
So the question is: how does it interact with manifest mind?
@@LeLa_Lu so then the next question: is a ritual on your turn? It lakes 12 hours
Unless you want to cast wish to make it happen on your turn
@@aidenbrown7458 Well, depends when the trigger 'when you cast a spell' occurs. Is it only when you finish casting it? Because that does occur on your turn
Here's my main rules concern with with something like the Eyebite trick. If you can use it through full cover like that, this means you can also use it through a wall of force or forcecage, and the designers have clarified that you can't target spells on the other side of a wall of force even if the wording says "a target you can see".
Does the "a target you can see" wording work fundamentally differently when you use actions in a spell description as compared to when you are casting the spell?
Alternatively, are you able to use these spell actions from the location of your manifest mind?
This is a subject that every DM and table have to decide themselves, since the rules for targeting are vague. Spells like Telekinesis, Dragon's Breath, Haste, and Call Lightning seem to make a distinction between the actions a spell grants and the initial casting of the spell. A spell like Eyebite is far less distinct. On Treantmonk's server, we generally rule that using an action granted by a spell does not require you to fill the "clear path to the target" requirement of casting a spell. So once you cast the spell with Manifest mind, you're free to use the subsequent actions, obeying any restrictions in the text of the spell.
I'd rule no on using spell actions from the manifest mind space.
Contingency - If I am released from the gen, cast Otiluke's Resilient Sphere on myself.
Good morning Chris! I've just started the Cthulu Summoner build video in my quest!
I'm in a campaign on Wednesdays that is currently level 12, I have a new character that is the Apothecary put out by the Dungeon Dudes. No combats yet, but the rp has been super fun!
I know you normally avoid 3rd party content, but have you considered doing a build video for the Apothecary at all? Maybe a Pathogenist to highlight some disease spells? I'd be really curious to see an optimized take on the subclass!
Have a great weekend! Much love, thanks for the entertaining videos! 💜
It's not just that I avoid 3rd party content, there's so much of it! I haven't even heard of the Apothecary. Keep watching, you're almost there!
This is what I live for in D&D, but what was largely ripped from me in 5e. (I could choose to play past editions, but, everyone only wants to play 5e and doesn't want to bother learning other systems at all let alone a "defunct" past edition)
An order of Gemstone wizards where this engemmed state is the final order and the desired goal is pretty thematically brilliant and could have ripple effects through the setting with wizards emphasizing gemstones more even from lower levels as their focuses and stuff.
Great another way to break the game with wizards 😂
Great vid, and kudos to Ramen Goblin for coming up with this bonkers combo.
I had played a human wizard who achieved immortality by having a bunch of clones created within demiplanes. I don't remember the details but it was a while ago. I never thought this could be a thing
My personal choice is to use Imprisonment to store a clone for an instant respawn. Use wish to make a gem, 24 hrs later use wish to make a clone (no material components, no maturation period, no vessel needed to contain it), dress said clone in castoff gear, 24 hrs later use Imprisonment to contain the Clone (Imprisonment doesn't specify that the creature has to be living and a non living clone cannot pass a wisdom check) setting the end terms to be "In the event of my death" or "When the occupant speaks the word 'Exit'."
As for the Magnificent Mansion, it wouldn't work as otherwise you could planeshift from inside the Mansion and thusly be free of the Imprisonment spell... despite planar travel being blocked... A genie warlock's vessel though... maybe.
Literally laughed out loud at the Catapult bit. Well done!
This is just hilarious and so creative I just have to applaud someone for Ramen Goblin for coming up with this
I think this is the first time I have seen this chef but I have made enough sauces in the traditional French method to know that this would end up being absolutely delicious. I think I am going to make this next time I pick up a couple filet mignons (Filet Mignons are great but demand a sauce, in my opinion). I also like the way Jean-Pierre makes the process approachable.
Also, if you master the basic process used in this recipe, you will basically have mastered many, many other sauces that use this exact same technique.
did you mean to post this to this video?
Very smart! I think without immovable object, one way the character could potentially take damage that the DM could rule is picking up the ruby and throwing it, the wizard inside taking damage from the impact of being thrown. I know physics usually isnt a serious option in dnd, but in this case it feels fitting and would be kind of funny. I would love to see what the ruby mage would do in response to being thrown as well.
THIS is why i subscribe to this channel. Dark tech. Imagine a villian with this.
Also this seems like an neat way to make like a Warhammer 40k dreadnaught or some other robotic player character. Having the wizard self imprison upon/into some super impressive golem is a neat "brain in a jar" concept character
Since you are placed inside of a "gemstone or similar object", could you not use a psi crystal for the object? It grants telepathy and would qualify for this, though would require attunement.
Used similar strategy in a game, where we were sieged by elementals - before fight, I conjured Tiny Hut. My party still decided to be them, and rushed in to melee as a druid, sorc, monk and rog, but I was able to decimate several groups of elementals before I had to leave the Hut.
Hit-and-run tactic on an owl worked wornders there, including casts from Manifest Mind :)
Interesting concept. Would love to see more scribe wizard stuff as its my favorite wizard subclass and not many guides on how to make it compete with other subclasses and class builds.
Blade of Disaster gets 'em. Or a Bag of Devouring, Sphere of Annihilation, Teleport (doesn't kill but now the Wizard and gem are far away) etc. Blocking line of sight can be as easy as grabbing the gem and putting it in a pocket, casting Fog Cloud or similar magic, or applying a small amount of paint. Also, using a 9th-level Dispel Magic to release an enemy mage may seem like a bad idea, but if the mage only has 62 hit points I feel like it'll work out.
Neat concept, definitely not an intended effect of the spell, but there are certainly ways around it.
Now this is the kind of stuff you expect Archmages to get up to. I hope they find a way to make this kind of shenanigans work without totally throwing off the balance of the game.
Hi Azeroth! If any of my builds seem disruptive, I always get approval from both the DM and the other players. I've made other builds that had a much worse affect on the spotlight of the game -- usually those get retired after one session!
People like you are exactly why balance in 5e is a broken mess.
Me taking notes: my players are gonna love this NPC so much.
1. Simply dispel the book and the wizard is out 10k gold and a ton of prep work.
2. Mental commands are not light- if psychic energy can't get through the gem, neither can mental commands.
3. We all know the design intent and we all know they don't have to say everything that anyone would ever come up with. Echo knights are still swinging their sword and scribe wizards are still using verbal, material, and somatic components to cast spells. The space the attacks come from is all that changes. The spell's energy would still have to transfer from the wizard to the book.
Love you, but this is right up there with the DnD shorts dude that I'm firmly convinced has never actually played DnD.
Funny build! The spell should definitely specify that the imprisoned target it incapacitated, as I'm confident that was the design intent of the spell, so I would rule against this at my table, but funny for a one shot.
No, the design intent was exactly as written, and only one condition is specified. That condition being restrained and it's only in one form of the spell. The problem is that, rules as written, it would be extremely easy to kill a mage inside of one of these. A simple moonbeam would be enough, since it's just light which is allowed to travel through the spell. Now they're trapped in a gemstone taking 2D10 radiant damage. Also AOE spells, since they don't travel through things technically, they just affect everything in the area.
@@Sinsults Hard to say what the design intent was without asking the developers that wrote the spell. I have to imagine they did not intend for the shenanigans used in this build. Also, wouldn't being inside the gem provide full cover from AoE spells happening outside the gem?
@@423RedWolf Rules as written, most AOE spells aren't line of sight and don't travel through things. They just hit whatever is in the area. If you go rules as written, the mage inside the gem is extremely easy to evaporate in to dust. Also, if the creator of the spell intended for it to incapacitate, they would have made it incapacitate.
@@Sinsults There are a ton of oversights in the wording of 5e spells. What I am trying to get across is that the designer of the spell likely did not expect the wording they used in the spell description to have the gaps that make this build possible. Also it notes that nothing but light can pass through the gemstone, which I would interpret as being purely regarding visibility - spell effects certainly shouldn't be able to enter or leave the gemstone. I would argue the damaging effect of Moonbeam can't enter or leave the gemstone - if Moonbeam was cast outside the gemstone, and the gemstone is in the area of effect, the creature inside the gemstone can see the spell happening, but the "ghostly flames" can't enter the gemstone.
@@423RedWolf And that would be homebrew, which is perfectly fine but isn't the intent of of spell. The wording of the spell and the rules in the book make it clear. Nothing but light can pass through the gem. Moonbeam is light and everything in the light takes damage. No damage passes through the gem. Only light. Similarly, aoe spells don't say anything about damage passing through things. The damage just manifests in the area, taking effect on anything in that area.
Just remember one important thing. If you can do it, then npcs can do it too, and the DM can be a lot more vicious with it than a player could. Make sure before using that spell that the whole table is in agreement on how it works. Personally, as a DM, I'd be far less likely to allow something that goes against rules as written AND makes a character functionally immortal. Mostly because I would instantly use it for a party wipe just to remind players that npcs can do anything player characters can.
Even if this isn't used as a player, an imprisoned mage is always a great idea for an NPC.
I imagine this same wizard has (and uses) Magic Jar, Clone, and Demiplane to disappear and preserve himself as well.
Besides being extremely hard to defeat, this would allow the Wizard to always appear in different locations and even with different appearances.
My wizard is in a cloned body grown in his demiplane. Which makes that body a native of that particular demiplane. This is important, because it means the Banishment spell (which can be cast via contingency) will immediately transport him safely to his demiplane.
Interestingly, if you also cast Imprisonment on your 11th level Sun Soul Monk, their 11th level feature, Searing Burst is neither a spell, nor an attack, and as such isn't affected by Total Cover (unless it's opaque... at which point, I'm not sure if it refers to the total cover being between affected creature and point of origin, or spell caster... probably an important discussion to the combo). 150ft range AoE that doesn't use a resource... Sure, it's not good damage, but it's one of the rare classes that can do something useful from inside their Imprisonment gem... And it's something you can do with a Sun Soul Monk, which made it really noteable for me.
Maximum RAW Russian Nesting Jar Bard: 1. Imprison (Magical Secret A) yourself into a nice 10k gemstone via Minimus Containment as here in the video. 2. Stone Shape (touch range cast from inside the Minimus Containment, Magical Secret B) the gemstone into the shape of a plant. Give it a few nice big roots and limbs or such. 3. Magic Aura (Magical Secret C, Touch) a Mask onto the gem to make it read to magic as though it were a Plant. 4. Awaken (Touch range, bard spell) the plant-like gemstone. Awaken reads in part, "The target (which is a valid target currently due to Magic Aura) gains an Intelligence of 10... gains the ability to speak one language you know... gains the ability to move its limbs, roots, vines... gains senses similar to a human's.” This is Instantaneous duration, so this is permanent, and the target gains this, it is not reliant on the target remaining a plant to retain these gained features. 5. Wait 24 hours for the Mask to wear off. 6. Sequester (touch range, Magical Secret D) the gemstone, which no longer reads as a creature and does not fall into a state of suspended animation. 7. Magic Aura the gemstone again, this time to Mask as humanoid. 8. Use Magic Jar (Magical Secret E) to possess the humanoid-like gemstone and move it into a container you brought with you. 9. Wait again for Magic Aura to fall off for maximum safety. 10. While possessing the gemstone, you use its game statistics except you retain alignment, Int/Wis/Cha, and your class features. Its game statistic ‘types’ have only been temporary, so it is still an object just as it originally was, and is not living, even if you possess it.
Effects in summary: The gemstone can’t be cut or broken while Imprisonment remains in effect. Also, you don’t need to breathe, eat, or drink, and don’t age. Divination spells can’t locate or perceive you. The gemstone-body is invisible and it also can't be targeted by divination spells or perceived through scrying sensors created by divination spells. It can still speak and move and see around. Since it can't take damage Sequester will not end except for your chosen condition or dispelling. The Magic Jar container is safe inside the Minimus Containment, alongside your catatonic body that (reminder) doesn't need to breathe, eat, drink, and doesn't age. If Magic Jar ends anyways via dispel, your body is within 100 feet of you since it is inside of you. Awaken never granted life to the target, so the host body cannot 'die' and therefore threaten to kill you on a Cha save, even if something could harm it - remember it is nearly indestructible due to Imprisonment. You possess the body of an invisible, nigh-indestructible plant-like non-creature gemstone. The only reasonable ways to see you are Faerie Fire, Blindsight, True Sight, or many bags of flour. You are not a valid target for the usual spells like Hold Person, but also not valid for creature-target spells like Banishment, Eldritch Blast, and Magic Missile. Consider taking Counterspell as your last Magical Secret, to defend against Dispel Magic, or play a Wizard if you have a druid or bard buddy to cast Awaken for you - the rest of this combo are Wizard spells.
It's exactly because of misunderstandings and vague wordings like these that I think WotC should just make the rules for choosing a target clear and unified:
- To be able to pick a target for a spell or effect, the target must not be behind total cover from you or must not be heavily obscured, unless otherwise specified. Target means not only a creature or an object, but a space as well. Total cover means it's completely behind a barrier, whether clear or opaque.
Simply put - default is that all spells and effects require unobstructed line of sight to the target, whether a point in space for the effect to originate from, or an object or creature. And then, if you want something to not work like that, you write it in the effect, like for example Bardic inspiration, where a target needs to hear you, or Dimension Door, which explicitly states you don't need to see the target destination. That would make things so much more clear, less unintentionally exploitable and will reduce arguments over how things work. If WotC haven't written that you don't need to see, then you need to see.
I think it actually varies from spell to spell weather a transparent barrier would block an effect. For instance a magic missile or a fireball that streaks from your hand would be blocked, but misty step just need line of sight. One of these would be blocked by a wall of force, the other would be blocked by a fog cloud. Now obviously both a force cage and an imprisonment are going to block teleportation in or out, but both mindwhip and mind sliver should work to cross such a barrier, as would a watery sphere or a charm or banishment spell. Also while you couldn't use it to hear you could speak with a minor illusion.
@@TheMichaellathrop the problem is that the language is so inconsistent and vague, many spells are unclear.
@@Notsogoodguitarguy your not wrong, that being said I think even with clearer language that some spells would be worried about line of sight, some would be worried about cover, and some would be worried with both.
With that stones shape combo could you put the gem in another gem worth less than the required amount? It would give the gem protection from dispel magic since it is also behind total cover
Reminds me of the "Magic Jar carried by my Familiar" idea.
I really want to use this concept somewhere, this sounds super fun!
Dear lord... this is insane. My mind is blown
For a stationary NPC make a permanent Magnificent Mansion inside the prison, I don't think this will actually change anything... but it will be much more pleasant. They can still use all the other tricks to effect the outside world... I feel like this is a good alternative option to a litch for a campaigns big bad. They could also put stuff inside that permanent Magnificent Mansion before imprisoning themselves. Maybe have the Gemstone be part of the crown jewels of a kingdom, also there is no reason that the gem couldn't be independently enchanted beforehand(maybe with 3 charges of 9th level counterspell set to go off if anyone attempts a 9th level dispel magic on the gem, the sort of thing that can be recharged by having a caster expend a 9th level slot. Or the gem would be an enchanted spell focus, so as long as your in contact with it (say standing inside) you could use this while having your spell book in your hand.
This is a really cool idea, but I think you paraphrased the spell to say that the gemstone is "indestructible", when the spell only says it "can't be cut or broken", which I would argue means that it plausibly can be Disintegrated. That doesn't completely invalidate the idea of course, but it's worth noting that there are a few ways around it.
you could say that but theres no way RAI is that this 9th level spell can be destroyed by disintegrate, if it could it would be in the spell description like wall of force
@@emma-rz7mf If the wizard is using Imprisonment on themselves as a buff spell, I think we're well past RAI. I wouldn't use Disintegrate as a solution for Imprisonment on an NPC in a normal campaign, but if we're agreeing to use precise RAW for unintended interactions then I think it's fair for the DM to use the same, especially when the result is that it makes the game more fun (being completely safe is kind of boring).
@@TheDersitePhantom im just saying i think disintegration falls under the breaking the gem category. thats like saying "you cant kill me" "im not killing you im slaying you"
I had a similar thought. "Just get it hot enough. Eventually it will melt."
@@emma-rz7mf That's fair, and I certainly wouldn't begrudge a DM who made that call.
GOLD. Every inn the PCs decide to cause issue in will have a retired immortal in the gem set in one of the many bits of gitch behind the bar.
That Magnificent Mansion part made me thinking.
Doesn't "... nothing else can pass through, even by means of teleportation or planar travel." part prohibits leaving from the ruby to an extradimensional space?
Does even using extradimensional spells and objects considered being on the same plane of existance?
Can someone communicate with its familiar from an extradimensional space? (For example a Genie warlock communicating with its familiar when the warlock is in their vessel and the familiar is outside.)
Creating extradimensional spaces inside extradimensional spaces sounds like a one way trip to the Astral Plane
I absolutely love the concept. I've never played a 20th level character before, but this one sounds like it won the game... unless someone throws the gem into Mount Doom.
RamenGoblin becoming a lowkey legend in the 5e optimization community.
By 2026 they'll be a prolific OneD&D creator :')
Thanks Treantmonk! If the Canadian government ever opens a ministry of optimization- you would be the czar! 👊
I am so confused - all of your new thumbnails have a figure who looks like a wizard.
Are you no longer a treant monk?!
I was true polymorphed.
The catapult strategy is SO funny. I think you could use it as any subclass of wizard if you really had to. As long as you're cool with only dealing catapult damage 😭
I think it is a really interesting idea. With my DM hat on there is something I think you missed. The PC wearing the ring(s) is moving their arms around to grab things, make melee attacks, do somatic castings and so on. This would put the 1 inch Wizard in a constant state of being in a ROLLERCOSTER, holy G-force effects lol. If I was the DM for something like this I would call for acrobatic checks and concentration checks (from the tiny wizard) if the Ruby ring is being carried by someone, maybe even auto bludgeoning damage if he isn't strapped down somehow. The ring could be set down to negate these conditions. Clever use of the spell though and a very interesting self created problem for the party. RP wise they almost become a sentient magic item in a way.
one thing to note, you talk about being able to dump constitution since you aren't expecting to take damage.
however, if you go around flinging your gemstone around via catapult then you would (should) absolutely be procing concentration checks, they're not just from damage.
that aside, this does give me an idea for a wizard NPC that, via wizard shenanigans, made a hollow, tower sized gemstone that they then built their tower inside. So now they're free to continue their research entirely uninterrupted.
If I was DM'ing I'd rule that the wizard would need to make constitution saving throws to avoid throwing up if they're going to catapult themselves around. :p
Clever thought about the affects of catapult on the ruby mage and his/her "office." Sounds like an opportunity to roleplay that defaulting a creature with catapult is a last resort, since "it wreaks havoc on my library!" Gives a good justification to avoid more degenerate playstyles.
As for added concentration saves or damage to the mage from being sloshed around -- seems a valid concern. I'd note that 1 inch creatures would be much more tolerant of g forces due to the square-cube law.
@@ram3n_goblin its not about the potential harm of the g-forces, its the "being tossed around" aspect. its specifically called out in....i believe the section on concentration checks in general. but it could be elsewhere, either way it talks about how a caster on a ship in a storm might be asked to make concentration a dc10 concentration check. My interpretation of that was that it was more about the general disorientation/dizziness.
@@sillyking1991 I completely agree that's something the DM should consider if they think that would make the story more compelling and fun. I was just noting that our intuition on what counts as "being tossed around a lot" might not be accurate for a creature 1 inch tall. Being on a ship in a storm sucks, but it doesn't suck as much for a mouse, and it really really sucks for an elephant.
@@ram3n_goblin i suppose you could be right about that. Im just not so sure that once you get to the point of beung tumbled end over end, the difference really matters much. At least in terms of disorientation.
Either way, im glad to have contributed :)
Magical creature held in a small vessel? This is a way to become a genie!!!!
Wouldn't your tiny wizard break all his tiny little bones if he catapulted his gem prison against his foes? Or is he also immune because even kinetic force or gravity can't pass through the gem? If so which direction is down in his tiny prison. Is there any gravity inside the gem? If light passes through, shouldn't he be able to be targeted by radiant damage ?
My friend and I came up with a similar idea a few weeks ago, but we were using it to protect our clone.
Watching this while an old phb stand in my line of sight : these two thieves tearing the gemstone out of the statue are in for a nasty surprise!!
Now I want a group of high-level therianthrope wizards that have names suspiciously similar to characters in the Sonic Hedgehog series and each do battle from within their own personal Chaos Emerald. XD
ROFLMAO.
Reminds me of a Pathfinder 1st ed game, where we found a high level way to make someone completely invulnerable to damage. I was playing a damage sponge paladin, based on redirecting damage to themselves and healing with lay on hands, and of course, I had the "sacrificial oath" spell (for 1 minute per level, and this is a only paladin spell so their spells go only to 4th level and become available at 13th level), you redirect all damage to yourself. Then have someone cast temporal stasis. This makes the time stop to pass for the target, and nothing can harm it since it's frozen in time. It's a wizard/sorcerer 8th level spell though, it's permanent and it has a costly component, but it would let me cast sacrificial oath on the while party with all my 4th level slots, and then intentionally fail the saving throw for temporal stasis, and have infinite damage redirection to an indestructible target. Obviously this was brought to the DM's attention (temporal stasis was introduced in the game for story purposes), and we decided it was too silly, but the image of the big bad being unable to damage anyone in the final fight (we knew they didn't have access to Dispel Magic) at 17th level while I stood with one knee to the ground, and the sword held like a cross, was just too funny to us
Fun NPC idea, a Ruby wizard who has forgotten how to end the spell (perhaps tricked into taking a text into their gem with a Glyph of Warding [modify memory] cast upon it or cursed by the gods for their hubris).
Bizzare strategies like this are what justify the existence of minmaxing. Not only is it powerful, not only is it majestic Bizarre, but it’s filled with insane potential from the DM’s side as well. Imagine a powerful world leader receiving guidance from the wizard within the crown. Or a quest to kill a lich who has become his own Phycalatery. Per perhaps a wizard who cast imprisonment on himself to escape a calamity, and now the players need to find them
I wish the imprisonment spell worked on objects too. I'd just have a bunch of cloning jars in gemstones and set the conditions for the imprisonment spell ending "when the jar within breaks" or some such. Imagine a gnome wizard dying, then their naked clone, with full HP and spell slots (maybe), spawns out of the Barbarians backpack ready to go.
dude imagine this wizard, after being the sole survivor of a near TPK, beating the BBEG to death using their gemstone and the catapult spell. oh my god. that would be so embarrassing. you're fighting evil goku or something and you slowly beat him to death with a rock over several in-game minutes and he can't do anything
Phenomenal cosmic powers, and you're basically winning the fight with the crudest and most basic form of violence: blunt force 🤣
It's like the time Buu made the mistake of turning Vegitto into a piece of candy.
@@BalthusHomewood It all returns to throwing rocks
Catch gem in a bag of holding as it flies towards you. Easy.
They can grab the gem. Can't cast Catapult on an object another creature is carrying.
I combined your necromancer build with remarkable recovery and an artificers periapt of wound closure to create the cheesiest of cheeses. DM let me do witherbloom background for good berry, and he’s a true master of life and death
Powerful lich: “muhaha I’ve captured you and will now bully you until the end of time”
The level 6 druid: uno reverse card
Definitely putting one of these into my game, travelling the world in search of someone who can cast a 9th level Dispel Magic.
Try this build. I call it the Soul Stealer paladin.
11 in wizard, 6 in paladin. 11 in wizard is for 6th level spells and Soul Jar. 6 is so the paladin can always ALWAYS make their own DC save due to the paladin aura being so broken. A +15 to CHA saves with 20 charisma before any other modifiers, which you'll have a few extra from war wizard and items and just general rolls and yeah. And if you find anything that further boosts CHA, each boost of CHA is +2 to your save.
There is no risk to soul jar now. Just spam it until it succeeds. If the vessel dies, it doesn't matter, you make your own DC auto pass and just go back to the jar.
IMO total cover behind transparent materials RAW is meant to be different to the other covers - as logically its situational as to if you can effectively target them - a thin sheet of glass doesn't stop an arrow, its quite predictable where your shot will go as it penetrates, and you can definitively see them to know where to shoot. Where a solid opaque wall you have no idea where to shoot and with the fractional covers the mix of materials in the way even if they are transparent so you can see through them provide some element of protection as your attack can catch the edges and deflect, not to mention actively distort your perception thanks to their refractive index differential with the air. And of course there is the case of the 'impenetrable' transparent barrier, in which case sure you can shoot at them, but it won't do anything.
In effect by wording it that way it leaves it up to the DM if this transparent full body cover counts as 'completely concealing' and thus "total cover" or not. Not the clearest wording but then its the D&D lots of it is more unclear than it should be, leaving much up to interpretation. However as ultimately with a game like this that is the nature of the beast to some extent, weird interactions in a high magic setting are simply inevitable you can't fault the writers too much. I think in this case I'd probably rule any spell that isn't projectile in its functional description but targets a creature you can see would be able to function both ways, making the wizard far less safe than they think themselves to be, but also far less handicapped. Though I have no objection if the player really wants the handicap but true invulnerability version either, as long as this particular transparent barrier is always treated consistently. (Plus it could be fun for the BBEG to wheel out the now entirely insane wizard who has spent far to long trapped on their own that was part of these players previous party that failed/ misplaced the rock at some point).