I have to disagree with your issues. Flashpoint is vital for the Reclaimers and for Mars Government. If it did not occur at the proper frequency the Reclaimers (for example) would grind to a halt. Likewise the Storm cards - too many of them too often and the game is warped. COIN games are essentially war-games; don't treat them like short attention span Euros. Also playtime decreases exponentially as players gain experience.
Great review and have enjoyed following your COIN journey. Agree that the heavier ones, basically this one, FitL, and Pendragon, are long, but darn it, when I can get them played, they are among my favorite gaming experiences!
Interesting review: It's "flawed", it's "too long", it has significant AP issues (even with seasoned gamers), has many "ambiguous rules" ... and yet ... an 8/10 ?? Appreciate the review, and honesty, as I'll be passing on this one
Oh man, we played and I didn’t see the flaws. Played smoothly and seemed very solid with the rules. Maybe we just didn’t have enough experience with it, or maybe our COIN experience helped, but we had a great time with this.
@@Fettigator we played a 4 player game and made it about half way in roughly 4 hours. It was a learning game for all of us but two had zero real wargame experience, let alone COIN, so there was some back and forth.
The only COIN game and GMT game I have played is Vijayanagara. And looking forward to play others. I always knew this was going to be super complex and all. But I went and ordered it. And it will be my first GMT Game and first COING game purchase. Looking forward to it.
Thanks for the review! Did you bring up the ambiguous rules questions to BGG or Discord (if you are active there)? This might help the designer/developer clarify them in the next printing.
I also wonder if simply doing 9 or 10 cards per dust storm would shorten it without messing it up. OR just doing 2 stacks of 12, Fire in the Lake has 3 game lengths in the box and is really just manipulation of event deck setup
Hey Cody, there's a game apparently coming out next year that sounds exactly like what you've been wanting. It's called Pacific Command, by Osprey Games. Maybe you already know about it. If not, then there you go!
I agree Cuba Libre is easier to get to the table and is one of the shorter COIN games. I am curious if you're mind would change IF you had 4 players that all already knew how to play.
Have you had the chance to play one of the longer COINs: something like A Distant Plane, Fire in the Lake or Andean Abyss? I would be very curious to hear how you feel those compare to RDR, since game length does seem to be one of your major issues with the game and the ones you mentioned as having tried are the shorter games in the series
The rules for this were pretty simple. The solo rules is where ambiguity arises. Instead of giving you a solo instruction, you have to merge multiple instructions from multiple sources with little guidance on how to resolve discrepancies. It really could have been done better.
I had 1 play of this a while back and thought the world the designer had created was excellent but... I didnt find the players interacted much at all. The fact that 2 factions have no resources doesnt help with imcentivising negotiation. I was the red dust faction and felt that 90% of the time Rally was the only viable option. Halfway throught the game i just started to zone out and hope for the final Campaign card to appear. In spite of some really cool concepts it was was way too complex and it fell really flat on the group as a whole.
@TheDiscriminatingGamer I'm glad you liked it. The designer has obviously poured his heart and soul into the game so it's good to hear it getting some love👍🏼
Maybe we could add more dust storms to the deck easy fix gmt print more dust storms card and send out and maybe end game sooner sometimes . Let me know what you think…. Thanks
I really love the COIN games, my biggest complaint is lack of opportunities to play. I have Liberty or Death but haven't been able to get it to the table. Twilight Struggle was my first one, played it several times and I love it even though it's different for a COIN game as it is only two players.
They're very procedural and can get quite laborious. If I play COIN solo I just play multi handed and see how each faction plays. That's not too bad - I think they're comfortably best with max players but solo is probably next best.
Thanks!
@@chamr Thank you very much!
Santa is bringing me this for Christmas. Looking forward to getting it to the table.
Sounds like a fun Christmas.
Helpful review, thanks gentlemen.
Thank you! Happy to help.
Well, welcome to the heavy side of COIN
Wait until you get to Fire In The Lake and Pendragon. 😄
Ha! Thanks.
I have to disagree with your issues. Flashpoint is vital for the Reclaimers and for Mars Government. If it did not occur at the proper frequency the Reclaimers (for example) would grind to a halt. Likewise the Storm cards - too many of them too often and the game is warped. COIN games are essentially war-games; don't treat them like short attention span Euros. Also playtime decreases exponentially as players gain experience.
Thanks for your perspective.
Great review and have enjoyed following your COIN journey. Agree that the heavier ones, basically this one, FitL, and Pendragon, are long, but darn it, when I can get them played, they are among my favorite gaming experiences!
Thanks. The ones I've played have been great fun.
I got mine yesterday. It will be my introduction to COIN games. Hoping the 1-player mode is worth it bc it looks awesome.
@@carlossteffens7659 Best of luck.
I have only played Fire In The Lake and I love it. I did learn a lot about Vietnam. I do own it.
@@douglaspearson4853 Heard good things about it.
Interesting review: It's "flawed", it's "too long", it has significant AP issues (even with seasoned gamers), has many "ambiguous rules" ... and yet ... an 8/10 ??
Appreciate the review, and honesty, as I'll be passing on this one
Yes, it's flawed - but it's fun.
@@TheDiscriminatingGamer Will be interesting to see what improvements RDR v2.0 will bring in the future
Oh man, we played and I didn’t see the flaws. Played smoothly and seemed very solid with the rules. Maybe we just didn’t have enough experience with it, or maybe our COIN experience helped, but we had a great time with this.
@@Leedguitar2 What was your player count and the time-length of your game?
@@Fettigator we played a 4 player game and made it about half way in roughly 4 hours. It was a learning game for all of us but two had zero real wargame experience, let alone COIN, so there was some back and forth.
The only COIN game and GMT game I have played is Vijayanagara. And looking forward to play others. I always knew this was going to be super complex and all. But I went and ordered it. And it will be my first GMT Game and first COING game purchase. Looking forward to it.
@@jksalamon Hope you like it. Thanks.
@TheDiscriminatingGamer looking forward to it. Waiting to get the copy in m hand. Probably mid of next month
@@jksalamon Hope you enjoy it .
@TheDiscriminatingGamer curious: did you play through the tutorial book?
@@chamr No.
Thanks for the review! Did you bring up the ambiguous rules questions to BGG or Discord (if you are active there)? This might help the designer/developer clarify them in the next printing.
I have not. I do bring up questions like this from time to time on BGG. Thanks.
I also wonder if simply doing 9 or 10 cards per dust storm would shorten it without messing it up. OR just doing 2 stacks of 12, Fire in the Lake has 3 game lengths in the box and is really just manipulation of event deck setup
Don't know. Thanks.
There are only three dust storms. It really isn’t that long. Same as any other coin.
Hey Cody, there's a game apparently coming out next year that sounds exactly like what you've been wanting. It's called Pacific Command, by Osprey Games. Maybe you already know about it. If not, then there you go!
Just looked it up. Thanks for the head's up. Looks like it could be a lot of fun.
I agree Cuba Libre is easier to get to the table and is one of the shorter COIN games. I am curious if you're mind would change IF you had 4 players that all already knew how to play.
Maybe.
Have you had the chance to play one of the longer COINs: something like A Distant Plane, Fire in the Lake or Andean Abyss? I would be very curious to hear how you feel those compare to RDR, since game length does seem to be one of your major issues with the game and the ones you mentioned as having tried are the shorter games in the series
@@EmilioRodo I haven’t played the heavier ones, so that may be a factor here. Thanks.
Got this game... now im scared to play it lol
It's a bear to learn. Best of luck.
The rules for this were pretty simple. The solo rules is where ambiguity arises. Instead of giving you a solo instruction, you have to merge multiple instructions from multiple sources with little guidance on how to resolve discrepancies. It really could have been done better.
I wouldn't call these rules simple, but then this is my first really heavy COIN game.
Would removing a certain number of event cards at random improve the game?
@@jamesdawson2937 Possibly, but I’d be afraid that it would alter other mechs of the game.
Kuato Lives!
Sorry. I couldn't help myself.
@@hanng1242 Ha!
sounds like a second printing pickup
@@CholulaSauce I hope you get a chance to play it.
I had 1 play of this a while back and thought the world the designer had created was excellent but...
I didnt find the players interacted much at all. The fact that 2 factions have no resources doesnt help with imcentivising negotiation. I was the red dust faction and felt that 90% of the time Rally was the only viable option. Halfway throught the game i just started to zone out and hope for the final Campaign card to appear.
In spite of some really cool concepts it was was way too complex and it fell really flat on the group as a whole.
That's too bad. It was not our experience - although Rally is the go to action for the Red Dust Movement.
@TheDiscriminatingGamer I'm glad you liked it. The designer has obviously poured his heart and soul into the game so it's good to hear it getting some love👍🏼
Maybe we could add more dust storms to the deck easy fix gmt print more dust storms card and send out and maybe end game sooner sometimes . Let me know what you think…. Thanks
@@Bryan-w4p5g Don’t know what that would do to game balance.
I really love the COIN games, my biggest complaint is lack of opportunities to play. I have Liberty or Death but haven't been able to get it to the table. Twilight Struggle was my first one, played it several times and I love it even though it's different for a COIN game as it is only two players.
@@jeffsmith6519 Twilight Struggle is not a COIN game. It’s a traditional CDG.
@jeffsmith6519 I wonder if you mean Colonial Twilight (the two-player COIN set in the French-Algerian war)?
@@hotice88uk Whoops! Yes, that's the one I mean. My fault for trying to communicate after a 12 hour shift. Thank you!
Is bots really that bad for COIN games? I'm really just me alone playing...
@@jupiterloner999 I imagine they play quite well, actually. We just love the experience with multiple players.
They're very procedural and can get quite laborious. If I play COIN solo I just play multi handed and see how each faction plays. That's not too bad - I think they're comfortably best with max players but solo is probably next best.
Looks like one game title revolted against Cody's dad pun jokes to spite him. 🥷
@@thegamesninja3119 Ha!