Web Too Bloated For You? Try Gopher!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
- In this video I review the gopher protocol
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Why don't we just go Terry Davis mode and make our own operating systems from the ground up?
Will it have elephants with blue eyes?
@@gokutoriyama3179 Of course, the most realistic elephants ever programmed. Remember, God likes elephants.
HI WHAT IS AN OPERATING SYSTEM? MY FRIEND BILLY AND I WANT TO HELP
That's Saint Terry to you.
Remember to run over bioluminescent CIA agents
Web designers on suicide watch
grimmed
Well you still can design it only with html and css that's enough...As he said websites has waaay to much JS running in background
@@Paco1337 js can also be used since js is also text
well as long as your browser supports js
@redwill17 wdym free js
@redwill17 js is open source
These flat shaded animations… F*cking everywhere.
Depersoning people artwork.
Depressing, uncanny, lifeless illustration
@@dorukhan8707 Precisely the reason it's used. Excellent description.
Its de default drawing style for sjw. Some more artistic ones evolved and learnt the steven universe style, but they are all lifeless and generic af
@@laharl2k Steven Universe is now banned in my house with early stage teenagers. Watch it.
Next up:
Electric computers too bloated? Try the analytical engine.
@@beep1228 lol my computer teacher would love that lmao
reject digital, return to analog
commie
@@beep1228 taiko
Resistors and logic gates are bloat
Dude I secretly love gopher. I remember spending a whole weekend just looking up all the gopher sites that people are hosting and just loved how functional and uncluttered it all was
Old and happy days of Linux Slackware running on a ADM 386DX40 :D
I think why today’s modern web is so bloated is because devs are putting JavaScript library like React into their page that don’t really need a library to render a page but they ended up still doing it because it’s fun to do so, and big companies are putting trackers and ads into their web page and locking down their API access to force users to use their official spyware or just out right banning folks from using their API to build a non-bloated third party client( I am totally not looking at you Disocrd)
Yeah I hate how discord uses electron too as I always need it running but what third party non bloated client did they ban users for?
@@bignig123 you can always use ripcord
@@bignig123 The one I’m using called “Cordless” it’s a terminal base Discord client, and due to the fact that Discord actually terminated some of the core dev accounts, that project is no longer being maintained, said on the project’s readme file, and I believe Mental Outlaw himself have covered this brilliant application on this channel before
Sums up well why the modern web is bloated beyond belief. I want to use 1 neat datepicker, I got to install an entire library, React, npm, etc; I can't take a sip of water without getting thrown in the lake.
@@saeedbaig4249 As a NodeJS developer, seeing 1TB of node_modules is part of my daily job
"HTTP isn't the problem"
**goes onto talk about an HTTP alternative as the solution to "the problem"**
Solution being ancient relic with no functionality :D
I mean, HTTP isn't the problem, it's the way people use it :p
@@tripplefives1402 That would still tie in with "it's the way people use it" :p
@@tripplefives1402 he didnt say http = html lol
@@FinlayDaG33k so people is the problem, just ban all javascript programmers and you solve it
Gopher would actually be great from a web accessibility standpoint; just a plain text website would be easy to adapt to any sort of screen reader.
I'm surprised I have never heard of it until now,
My next question, maybe the topic for another video would be how to spin up a server for it.
Good Q, and yeah gopher is awesome. No java trackers
No monetization
This made me very nostalgic for Windows 98 times.
98 is a lot of times to be nostalgic for Windows!
Any time pre 2014 is fine for me
I guess is still bloated.
Markdown should be the standard
Groff should be the standard
@@zazem4835 how about multiple but compatible standards
@Brahma Sharma need to edit the config and gemfile to remove bloat.
@@092_deepak_kumar3 You can program a script with sed to transfer one simtax to.other
Wake up babe, Mental Outlaw posted
based
I read your name as Ahmedabad Allahabad.
@@otherssingpuree1779 lol I should've wrote that instead as my name, I just took the most pajeet sounding name to let google think I'm a tech support scammer
@@ahmedabadabdallah927 dude 🙄, why you copy me sir 🙄
@@ahmedabadabdallah927 sir your name doesn’t sound pajeet sir. Sir your name makes you appear your hiding in a cave in Afghanistan good sir
I searched for news...now I'm reading some dude's personal account about a raid in DC in 1992.
Fresh news lol
understandable, have a nice day
Holy shit was that a Just a Pancake reference?
@@mariozenarju6461 ;-;
My disappointment is nonexistent and my day has improved
@@waldolemmer yup
@@zyansheep pog
watches distrotube once:
That 3d browsing reminded me of a scene in Jurassic Park.
if i remember correctly the 3d browsing thing in jurassic park is an actual unix file manager lmao
Its a UNIX system! I know this!
The Unix filesystem browser.
@@jeffreyson2820 Yes, it's called FSN. There is actually a Wikipedia entry about it
There was a feature in Firefox to view HTML as 3D, it was just removed ages ago (you can still get archives though)
I would love if you made a video just on lynx. I try to tell people about it but they just scoff at me. Admittedly I enjoyed it more once I was able to use the solarized theme.
Your videos are great, keep it up! Glad I found the channel.
Have a single page website showing only a couple of photos and some text
Still puts computers to a dismal crawl for their artsy-fartsy design things and animations
Isn't this what ultimately killed friendster and myspace? Bloated pages that consume a metric ton of resources that is not even indicative of the actual value said page actually has (like those stupid meaningless "landing pages").
I would say that's mostly due to the framework being used usually, where the developer uses one that is intended for much more ambitious things without cutting out unused features
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, but this is going to happen irrespective of the protocol being used. There is no way to curate the relevance of data by means of the protocol without restricting the freedom (and therefore use cases) of the protocol so much that its use is so niche that it ends up being all but useless.
It happens on http(s), and it happens on gopher. There's no way to stop it.
@@egg5474 Which I why I hate the whole JS "framework-hell" because it ultimately tends to stagnate ACTUAL advances in JS. Most of the things said frameworks are useful for are already addressed in JS but people are so reliant on their frameworks that exists for problems that doesn't even exist anymore. smh
@@insidetrip101 Probably right, people will find a way to personalize their own content irrespective of the medium (which is a good thing). However the medium itself can dictate in what ways the creativity is expressed.
My gripes is that sites are bloated as hell to look sleek and minimalistic (again with those "landing pages") which is also copy-pasted towards the broad spectrum of websites. Which is not neccessarily a bad thing, I like some minimal and engaing neocities pages that shows it's design is in tandem with it's content, with running on mostly vanilla JS and CSS.
Sure enough geocities sites were hot-garbage but they were mostly personalized hot-garbage and they are upfront (no hidding behind burger menus hiding more menus and more menus).
Mostly, Most sites look and feel the same, and some of those design desicions I feel is just to "look kewl and new" as opposed to having a real utility to it. IMHO
@@NoobBasically :"However the medium itself can dictate in what ways the creativity is expressed."
The computer demo scene comes to mind.
Gopher looks like what old-school sci-fi imagined the internet would be like; like something you'd see on a Star Trek console.
Corporate flat art is really a cancer to this world. I hate that shit. It feel like I’m being treated as a child by these corporations.
Good thing that most normies are like children when it comes to the web.
I like how everyone right now is talking about gemini and gopher ;p
I love how "everyone" is the holy trinity of chad based blackman , default runescape character, and DT.
@@nnywadd We've all been YT Algorithm'd
@@JINORU_ yeah.. all those talk about freedom and privacy, and we are in youtube
Idk. why I don't get DT gemini in recommended actually.
this demonstrates the echo chamber that is created by auto moderated sites like youtube and facebook. They create a feeling that whatever you're interested in is the most prevalent thing, even making it seem like its true.
Reminds me of Terry A. Davis' take on simplicity vs. complexity. A lot of shit is way too clusterfucked these days.
also DistroTube made a vid about gemini
Yeah, the video was very similar. Mental probably got his "inspiration" from there.
Gemini will be preferred when they finish the protocol
technically gemini is a more modern gopher.
pretty nice ngl.
@@MemeScreen Like I'm using it already, I don't believe much is going to change.
3:10 Intel nowadays actually puts in Like 0.01% of the resources for developing CPUs and the rest for restricting them for profit maximization and changing their Logo all the darn time.......
On the internet changin your avatar is like changing who you are......why would companies want to change their logo? Werent they the best since the bigining?
This is my og avatar, im still the same person, i didnt need to "modernize" myself, i never regret of my past.
@@username6338
id rather think that its them that are not sure of who they are instead.
Now you can roleplay as a Fallout character while browsing the web
The web might be better if we had been principled and left html and css alone, developing a new format that isn't strapped together by half-meg sized javascript packages.
I first learned about Gopher when I was a wee lad using SDF's freeshell in the beginning of the 2010s. I instantly fell in love, and credit it with spurring my motivation to use the web in a minimalistic way. Very happy you're talking about it and spreading Gopher awareness!
When coding (hobby stuff), I usually go to tty1 to keep focused. Using tmux to split screen and vim as an editor, I also extensively use lynx to duckduckgo stuff I don't know how to code. Works very well, stackoverflow and cpp reference ale perfectly readable, load times are incredible, and no need to grab a mouse at all. From this perspective, I see no reason to dig into some abandoned protocol, artificially kept alive by a flock of nerds. Lynx does a great job if it comes to quick lookup of things and offers pros of gopher in http world.
o kurwa… we got a professional here…
I like the comment except for “…abandoned protocol, artificially kept alive by a flock of nerds”.
Internet is a medium to connect communities.
It’s incorrect to say this protocol has been “abandoned”. It may have been abandoned by many people, but clearly it’s not been abandoned full stop or we would not have this video in the first place.
Then you say “artificially kept alive”. Again, the interest of a small group is not more or less artificial than the one of any group. They may have their values, priorities, and preferences.
It’s good to know how you are working around the uses of the existing web. Exaggerated claims and disparaging words (“flock”) are not useful for anyone, like yourself, that appreciate distraction free browsing.
BTW, the “Gemini protocol” is similar to Gopher and worth checking out if interested in meeting likeminded people.
I totally wanted to this. But now I'm stuck as a nextjs dev 😖😖. So, sadly, I need to use chrome. If it ain't chrome I ain't working on it. Backwards compatibility most especially for older browsers always makes my head hurt 🤕.
I love Lynx and Gopher. I use the app which is just called gopher.
11:00 I'd say it's an Asus eee pc from 2008, one of the first modern netbooks
It really is eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
But still it was pretty small
TH-cam is recommending this to me because I've spoken aloud and thought of badger and groundhog in recent days. It finally kicked over a certain threshold and now here it is.
Wow! What a blast from the past! I actually used it for a short time before the HTTP web.
Right, so the same minimal site can be made for HTTP. Seems like the page source is the problem and not the protocol. Gopher is only fast because it's features suited an era where computers and connections were 1000x slower.
This only seems useful for terminal only users, but this should be done over http as its already used to serve alternative data through APIs.
Many sites already have a mobile url, so why not a render text only url?
Many features can still be embedded that can be interacted with. Like underlined or alternate coloured hyperlinks that can be accessed via enumerated numbers or tabbing to highlight them first.
I'm new to most of this, so I understood very little of what you just said. On the bright side, I understood most of the video and am downloading lynx right now.
I haven't heard of gophar in years, I thought it was dead.
Is it gophar or gopher?
I remember Gopher vs. Mosaic when I started college in 1994. I preferred the web because it was so much more like HyperCard. My first "web site" was a 640x480 GIF with a server side imagemap. Perhaps I made the wrong choice.
ok I understand the whole long running joke in the linux community about everything being bloatware that needs to be eliminated, but this has gone too far
Not far enough
@@ILovePancakes24 is a single quark enough?
@@cathacker13 not enough.
I hereby define the ordinal relation of bloatedness on all things (including quarks) and "s" with "s" ∉ all things. It may use only the comaprison operator
@spitemim yeah I kinda agree with all of these now that I had time to think about it, but sites taking minutes to load? Are you still using dial up or what?
@spitemim fair enough
I know you said becoming Amish was at the extreme, but this is very close.
Until I recently joined SDF, I had forgotten that I even knew about Gopher considering I was a kid when Gopher was the thing because the actual WWW hadn't taken off yet. I don't have many memories of it but it's a far different place now than then, I can tell you that; when people stop needing something, it becomes a hobby for the rest of us. Not a bad thing by half but it makes it hard to justify telling people about it because most either won't care unless their favorite x/y/z thing is on it or just because it has more limited functionality than what we've created over here or hell, even if they are interested it's still not viable because it's so niche. I've read so many people's phlog's on Gopher that talk about them leaving because they know no one is around to read it anymore. It's sad cause I like Gopher (and Gemini) but it is a bit of a curiosity in this day and age; a place so hard right from the way we do things.
HELL YA! He is finally talking about gopher.
"Go into the woods and milk a cow."
City-boyo confirmed.
Bugman !!1!1!!!!11
Mental Outlaw is a city slicker with a fancy German car
Wow, thanks. I didn't know about this. What I like here is little amount of computing power to do things. To go for used, more accessible machines. It has it's own charm.
Also, I thought it would be awesome to play Cyberpunk in ASCII symbols.
I remember getting weather reports off Gopher back in the mid-90s. It’s honestly surprising to learn that it’s still in use
What an amazingly pointless thing. No wonder HTTP killed it
Tfw no multimedia
@@cyber1377 Tfw can't watch porno - Pointless
The internet is for pron, unless you are on gopher.
@@laharl2k ASCII images kek
@@cyber1377 I mean you could convert an image into a string of ASCII text and then have that string rendered as an image by casting the string into a byte array.
Great video! I've been using the internet since about 1993 or 94 and I remember references to gopher but I never actually used it.
Right after DistroTube’s Gemini video huh?
I honestly like Kenny's vids on topics better. DT is more geared to the superusers and the true linux autists. Kenny makes things easy for regular linux anons like me to understand. That's the Chad power of Gentoo users. Outside of mongolian basketweaving websites, they seem to be the most understanding of the fact that not all linux users are enthusiast powerusers with the 'tism.
You think TH-camrs can't just happen to be working on similar videos at the same time?
@@linuxatheist5361 they can and it's called the twin film effect
@@hedgeearthridge6807 well said mate
Chris Were Digital just made a gemini video as well. What a timing, huh
Cool! I heard a lot about Gopher in the early '90s, I think I even had an app to search gopher sites for the Mac but I didn't know how or why to use it. Never heard of it since.
Please note the command line browser 'links' won't work with gopher, but 'lynx' will.
"We have you surrounded! Come Accept our Cookies!!"
"I HATE JAVASCRIPT I HATE JAVASCRIPT."
Yo outlaw, didnt know you ventured around gopherspace!
Gopher? Really? Come on. I thought everyone was going crazy for Gemini now.
The virtual gopherspace made me think of that one unix file manager best known from the first Jurassic Park.
Nice Video keep this up man! Always enjoy your videos much!
It's literally been 7 seconds
@@Patrick-ou4de I know haha
Honestly, 90% of websites are basically unusable in my eyes. After clicking away cookie pop-ups and 2-3 ad-popups you still have to scroll through content that is outmatched 2:1 by more ads including auto-playing videos, etc. Absolute crap imho.
If someone thinks this extremely ancient, i gotta remind you that some BBS'es still exist
Talk about single GPU pass trough in Gentoo. There's a post on r/Gentoo with the title: gentoo single gpu vfio passthrough scripts
Love it. Thanks for shine light on this!
what's next? "computers are bloated for you? try smoke signals"
10:45 - This looks like Jurassic Park when the girl gets on Ned's computer.
Yo, you should try Broswh, I haven't tried it but it says it can render HTML5, CSS3, JS, videos (yes) as well as WebG, it's hilarious. All in the terminal. There's only so much you can do on a terminal though.
And it runs firefox in the background to actually load and render the site. Tried that, and I stick to lynx for minimalistic experience, or firefox in a small Wayland compositor for true experience.
@@rageagainstthebath yup, it's quite bloated and I didn't even bother installing it, I'll also stick with my standalone browser. But it looks like it's fun.
Pro tip to get rid of this reverb: *blanket*
Hex DSL crowd are promoting Gemini pretty well at the mo. Great to see developments in both camps.
I had almost forgotten gopher existed, but it was useful in the '90s
this is great. not a replacement to http but it's crazy to me that you'll be able to see wikipedia and hopefully wiktionary with the tty, i could have wiktionary open up in my vim config like how man pages open up (at the very least in one of those neovim terminals (i think vim has it too now) but ideally i'd like for it to open up in a normal buffer like man pages do, theres probably a plugin somewhere if its too complicated), so i dont need to open a browser to check spellings or meanings and i can just use the equivalent of shift-k.i dont even post that much on the public http internet (barring youtube mainly) so there's not that issue of websites being older. seems really promising as long as there are servers somewhere close enough to me.
Okay so you go to Only Text to avoid bloat and then you port it to VR.. Makes sense.
Not, really, but why?
yeah, if you're going vr why not a bit more creative
It was the 1990s.
Everything was getting ported to VR.
Everything.
(We just weren't pretentious enough to call it the "metaverse" then outside of actual Neal Stephenson books.)
1) Gopher will always be a thing as long as their are blind people.
2) That guys computer is a Eee PC by Asus. He is most probably running Linux those some had the option of Windows XP. The Eee PC is the first sub-laptop outside of Japan. They ran from 2007 to 2013 with a reemergence in 2015.
Why I started to hear about gopher? Yesterday from distrotube, now from you. Did gopher will become the new standard for the internet or just the "cool" kids will become to use it?
gopher has been around for a long time
It's a "hipster" version of the Internet, to be honest :-)
this is basically the "reject humanity, return to monke" meme
Love the Reviews/Tutorials
Introducing Gopher as the internet without bloated UI and then following up with a ridiculous 3d UI for gopher is very funny to me.
I have the older model of this Asus Eee PC, doesn't have a camera above the screen, just a speaker. Same CPU as this one though, some Intel Atom from decades ago. I use it as a Pi-hole DNS server. Works great. Built in UPS :D that lasts about 15 min, enough to move cables around.
That netbook is an Asus EeePC. I used to have one in the early 2000s.
Http is not bloated, it's superior in every way. It's ad culture and website creators that make the bloat happen. If gopher actually became the protocol it would have just as much ads and stuff.
He specifically said http is not the problem
It's not http's fault there's bloat and it's also not my girl's fault she has an annoying voice. And just like my girl, sometimes I need a break from http.
Rule 5835729482: if it exists, it's bloated
Well the machine was an EeePC, it was written on it :-) it's super low spec indeed, and it was running the app at hundreds of frames per second, not bad!
I don't quite get the use of gopher websites. Any entity willing to offer a Gopher site already has good faith, and won't put ads in their HTTP alternative.
Speaking of cool protocols, Gemini.
Gee... I remember using gopher before both Linux and the Web was invented... now I feel slightly dated.
That's an Intel atom netbook
Great video
10:48 Bro, the ASUS EeePC is the OG netbook! :)
The 3D reminds me of the girl navigating the file system in Jurassic Park. lol
Fun fact, that 3d file system in Jurassic Park is real. it was a Silicon Graphics workstation (using IRIX, the SGI System V based Unix) running the three dimensional file system browser fsn ("File System Navigator", pronounced "fusion").
No
Yes
No
Yes
yes
Gopher?
GOPHER AS IN GOPHER-PROJECT??
DANGANRONPA V3 FANBASE ASSEMBLE!!!
An essential step to going back to monke is to go back to 90. Reject modern graphics and the industry, become 90 and be closer to monke.
I wonder if there's an image board on gopher, or just a board I guess
gopher gaming when
ASCII art
I will never be able to see flat corporate panel art in the same way.
I can't believe people hate JavaScript for being created. Eich created it for making things simple. He acknowledges the problem himself.
Don't know what to think... I cannot see any of the 99.99999% of people I know (included PhDs in math, Open Science advocates, and similar) to ever even start using Gopher sites.
Can you put some videos about crypto? Would like to hear about your tools and opinions
Do Gemini next babes
Next: display web images using ASCII chars in Gopher.
It's all good idea but , whenever I try for a better way like degoogling my phone , or trying searx or trying gopher , I m limited to my options , which sux , even though I want all these
3:01 heeey :D it has a Devuan Release :D Name is Epic too its like "BEWOLF" >O>
Unga Bunga to Civilized to Unga Bunga. That's what gopher is.
Lmao I was confused thinking how golang was gonna debloat the Web. I realised gopher is the mascot of golang and this is not that
Tired of the boring, old web? Need something new to breathe fresh air into your internet life?
Why not try this minimal, 30-year old, outdated web protocol with almost no native browser support and significantly reduced functionality? Even if you can't visit any of the biggest, most popular sites, these new ones sure do load fast!
Why would you want to visit any of the "biggest, most popular sites"? Is there anything of value there?
I've never seen this level of e-begging, holy ish. Dude has 10 different donation pouches in the description.
Me: "Can we have a little less GS? 200 calls a second for a wiki page is excessive"
Outlaw: "FINE! NO JS! NO IMAGES! Here: take this white text on black background."
I think I iswd gopher once but remember hearing about gopher, archie and veronica on PBS.
Reminds me of the operating system from Jurassic Park.
0:48 "oH nO nOt tHe piCtEriNoS"
you could also use a text-only browser on the web, though again most modern sites will likely display as fairly to completely unusable garbage due to being designed with little to no thought to reverse-compatibility or following proper HTML design standards.P
>people complaining on flat artstyle
>me having 2008 flashbacks of horrible Photoshop sliced pages
I started working as web designer when "slicing" was a thing, still have nightmares.
I'm sitting here thinking that the "you need broadband" argument could be trimmed somewhat by demonstrating all those things given as examples be done in gopher and other protocols. Video being the primary example of broadband requirement with "I want to make money off you...somehow" being number two.