What Is The Virtue And Vice Of INTPs (The Ardent)? | Attentiveness Vs. Apathy | CS Joseph
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ส.ค. 2024
- What is the virtue and vice of INTPs (The Ardent)? CS Joseph explores Attentiveness Vs. Apathy.
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I often find that I can be more attentive to what someone is saying when I am NOT looking at them.
Exactly. I cant pay attention while looking them at the eye. Its like I have to be looking down or sideways and then listen. And i still remember every word of it. I feel though i can't look at them at the eye coz i find eye contact to be awkwardly uncomfortable. But when i do listen to them without looking at them i do a better task of hearing them out. But when the person is super interesting then i have no problem looking them at the eye and listening. In fact my attention becomes so focussed i unknowingly learn their behavior and speech patterns. I know m not a good mimic but i know i can do pretty well realistic mimic of people i find interesting without me even realising m mimicking them in their speech patterns and behavior. Gosh in fact i even start thinking like them. I dont know whether its an intp thing although on multiple tests i came out as intp.
daniella anderson As an INTP I also naturally do this and find it the most comfortable way to listen or even when to speak to someone.
Agreed. For me, if I look at them, I am going to analyze their behaviour and lose focus on their words. My mind is obsessed with analyzing I sometimes wish I could bore through it with a boring machine. I even analyze their facial bone structure for subtle pattenrs.
Same, When I see them I start thinking about everything but what they are saying
Same
If someone tries to control my reaction I will NOT give them that reaction.
isambo400 HAHAHA! ..right? Im so with you on this. I can't stand being manipulated in any way. I can't begin to count the amount of missed opportunities this has lead to. I wish it wasn't so. But in the end, I've got to be me. ...a manipulated me isn't one anybody would want to be around anyway...
Most times, I do too. It sucks when I planned on Action A but then have to devise a plan to even figure out what Action B may be just because someone I dont respect came along and declared Action A is best, and I would be wise to listen to THEIR authority/wisdom/prowess/expertise, and I will thank them after.
"Fuck! ... Get the drawing board out... FUCK, I wanted to do Action A ... FUCK."
I am similar...
isambo400 I only do it if they are trying to control it and push it in a direction I don’t want it to go
Same. It's a problem with INFJs in my experience... as it's clear to me they are gunning for a certain reaction or applying certain tests and I just switch off. Guess I should be more accomodating and not treat it with such disdain.
People always get surprised of my ability to go from "best friend" to "complete stranger" mode in just a minute. They have no idea that I still care, but don't want to be a doormat anymore, coz it hurts so much.
That apathy is how I survived years of emotional abuse. I would crawl inside myself and disappear.
On a path of self discovery right now and have come to this same conclusion after just separating from my "other half" after 7 years of marriage.
exactly its a defense mechanism if not activated we will not be able to handle our intense excruciating emotions and we will burn everything and everyone
me too
How do you fix this after years of ingrained behaviour? I’m finding it impossible
@@mrscoles100 it can be changed if the environment change with a will from the inside
I liked going for a walk without actually walking
pinchop73 I enjoyed your comment, lol.
pinchop73 same! Haha I was just going to comment this!
I'm about to take a walk because of this video
Do you mean this going on google maps and using the human thingy to explore?
I listened to this while walking
you cannot FATHOM how many times I'm in class and the teacher calls me out for "not listening" and I've repeated their last sentence to them. it embarasses the teacher and it makes me happy :)
👀👀👀👀👀
IKR, yes I was doodling, but I can hear you better when I'm doodling
I used to doodle in my notebooks all the time since the first grade in elementary until even university years. It truly helped me to concentrate entire lesson.
I remember reading the textbook in class and still answering the teachers question perfectly... the textbook was for a different class
Ukr
This man knows exactly how to make a video that will captivate an INTP.
I got bored, distracted by reading an article about INTP and hygiene
🤔💭📝
@@JoorJoanna o ?
Especially the "hard on you" ending...I think I'll stop ignoring a few things, now
In your videos, you make a good observation that INTPs get stuck in a rut and have trouble getting out of it.
When an INTP starts feeling apathetic, an immature INTP will use it as a defence mechanism to hold back their Fi Demon; we know our emotions are volcanic when unleashed. But, this is only a delaying tactic - unless the INTP engages their logic to get themselves out of the situation, that demon will break the chains eventually.
A wiser INTP sees apathy as a fire siren: something is very wrong. Some honest introspection will identify the cause, and then it can be fixed.
Love this
📝📝📝
Needed to hear this
Good stuff.
See how he butters us up at the beginning, INTPs? Probably because we're his largest viewer base.
🤣
yeah right, as if INTPs liked compliments
@@idealdivan personally I love having my ego stroked, as long as it comes with a healthy dose of everything wrong with me
Well, he is one of the few that really understands us
Was thinking the exact thing. Had an entire convo with him about that. He said, "Focus on the video".
INTP female here. I can absolutely say, I’ve lost many friendships due to the perceived notion that I’m not attentive enough.
Honestly I’ve always been baffled at how needy some of my friends are. Isn’t it enough that I choose to hang out with you and text on a fairly regular basis? LOL I guess not.
SuperTRICKst3r feelers
I face this as well. I have a lot of social anxiety (surprise surprise) and find it hard to reach out to people, even if I know them well, as I can't help but think of outcomes that would be undesirable if I just contacted them out of the blue without notice. Since I left high school the people that I used to hang around with are people that I've fallen off the grid with, even though a few were what I'd consider to be decent to good friends. I used to feel a little guilt or regret about not doing my part to reach out more as the years go on, but I also realized that those people could've all reached out to me too and chose not to, so I don't nail myself to that cross anymore. I'll happily admit my own pitfalls when it comes to communication, since it's the truth, but when you can contact me too, I'm only taking part of the blame when we lose contact. Friendship is a two way street, after all, and the socially inept loner shouldn't always be the one that has to reach out first.
@@gurlycash7394 My difficulty has always been trying to delineate between playful banter and flirting. I wouldn't even act on it if the girl was flirting, but it's still nice to know where I stand to avoid any awkwardness. I can be ridiculously oblivious at times, but I also think that obliviousness comes from the doubt I have that anyone would even want to flirt with me or would find me attractive.
@@Bad_At_Parties I can relate to this I feel like all my friends don't reach out to me and I have to be the first one to approach them and it's exhuasting but if I told them this they'd get mad. I recognize my faults as an intp with being oblivious to others feelings and shy at times but I'm trying to be better with it and try new things but my friends are just not on the same page I guess
@@adriannak.1830 You definitely have my sympathies. This weekend I'm going to draft a letter to send to someone I would call my best friend...and we haven't spoken in about a year and a half. No phone calls, e-mail, etc. He admits he sucks at communicating too, but it's frustrating when neither party take the needed initiative. I think I end up getting sick of always having to reach out, especially since I'm more busy than ever these days, and that frustration just has me shut people out until THEY reach out. But if they never do (and they don't) I lose friends, which I can't afford to do as I can count them on one fucking hand these days. Sometimes it feels better to just be alone; lower maintenance and less stress, but at the same time I can admit that other people make me better, given that they understand and accept me. The trick is to find said people, and cling to them for dear life.
INTP married woman: telling an INTP woman you respect her or you find her interesting 1000x more of a turn on (important) than saying “i love you” “i care about you” or “you are attractive” though those are nice too but only on occasion.
This is pretty much the same for an INTP man, especially long term.
Seriously! That gushy stuff is really more like dousing my in slime. It’s uncomfortable. I understand your trying but I haven’t figured out how to “react” to that
Telling me you think I’m intelligent is a nice boost, especially when I get in the dreaded loop and sometimes see myself as a hack, masquerading as someone else.
Also female in a LTR, and I agree. Useful, smart, or interesting are far preferable to beautiful. Beauty is not terribly useful.
@@thevalkyri yes this is so very accurate. As a man i can say i enjoy the intended affections of my significant other when they say "i love you". What i really "love" to hear is "i have complete faith in your abilities", "i respect you" etc
@@thevalkyri It is extremely useful in most social situation (lookup effects of perceived beauty on judging other people in terms of intelligence, hard work and kindness etc.). But it's not earned, worked for, and it's external - not really your achievement so it's meaningless in that sense.
As an INTP, what I prefer even more than being provided with sources disproving one of my claims is a good question. A well-put question can inspire me to turn my claim upside down and check for new perspectives. That’s extremely exciting and I’ll likely be less defensive in response to a question as opposed to a counter claim.
100% !!
😊
“The important thing, is not to stop questioning “ - Albert Einstein
Damn right , I'd rather have a conversation with someone answering me with questions thank make me go to his idea with my own brain rather than just someone answering with water ever fact he thinks is true
This is probably the most accurate video I've seen about us.
And the fact that you remembered we come in female form, too, that was nice. We get ignored even more than the males.
What makes you think you're an INTP vs. not an INTP? I am interested in meeting an INTP female as I find them incredibly rare and am interested in getting to know them better. Male INTP's are rare enough but females even more so from my experience though I think this is because INTP's isolate so much so my sample of life experiences is limited.
@@tmstani23 not sure, but I think you might find more INTP females in atheist, Libertarian, philosophy, debate, or tech groups. But, we don't always like groups - so meeting us is hard to do sometimes. I wish there were dating groups/meetups for the 3 or 4 types who are best suited for each other.
@@genkiferal7178 Yea that is quite possible I am also interested in those ideas as well and am usually solo. Not a big fan of groups.
Are female INTPs that rare? I got typed as one a long time ago when my cousin and I went for career guidance at the local community college and got a whole battery of personality, aptitude and interests tests to help us pick careers. I majored in electrical engineering for a little while, but wound up getting a degree in Spanish and leaving the Mexican company I used to work for to work as a secretary in an engineering company. Almost all of my friends are engineers, which might be why I didn't realize INTP females are rare.
@@tinabean713 A lot of people mistype. I work in software engineering and am the only INTP there male or female. Most engineers are ISTJ's, ISTP's, INTJ's and sometimes ESTP's from what I've seen. I think INTP's are rare in general but it could just be that we are loners and don't put ourselves out there that much. The 'engineer' stereotype isn't a good one for INTP's. I would look more at the cognitive functions and how they interact to determine type. Also self testing without a professional can be tricky unless you're able to be really objective about yourself and mark down what you really are not what you want/desire to be.
LOL, INTP here... when friends come over they knock on my door and automatically say, "Hey dude, put some pants on and let's go out and get something to eat." They already know that I am just sitting at my computer in my underwear and haven't eaten anything for that last 12 or more hours. That is why I love my friends.
😅😅😅
I need friends like this... I'm down to 160lbs...
As an INTP this speaks straight to my heart. When I was young, I was always so worried about hurting other people's feeling but didn't quite realize that my feelings should be included in that list as well. I still let the world take advantage of me but the difference is that I know when to say no now.
Me too
Apathy went hand in hand with my depression, anxiety, which came from a lot of emotional, mental, and physical abuse throughout my life. In the last year I began to remove toxic people from my life and it's honestly so liberating. I'm only sad now in that it took me so long to realize I deserve love. Focus on the people that matter, and you should always realize you matter too.
I recommend watching this at playback speed 1.5x - yes I’m an INTP who is impatient with information lol
Racheous I do that often too, it's just that I like to travel through large amount of info one shot so that I can have a lot of raw materials to process.
Go to his website and you can probably read it much faster. Haven't checked this particular episode to be sure though.
I do this with movies and tv. If there is a gratuitous sex scene, car chase, or fight scene (like not shit like Jason Bourne because a well choreographed fight scene can be awesome) I tend to fast forward to get back to the plot.
@@zikesMJ Comic book movies are high speed friendly because of that.
2x, people can process at a much faster speed than produce speech, if 2x is too fast, start slower and step up once in a while.
I became apethatic when you said apathy is super mega annoying.
FubzBlue 😂
apethatic? lol
🤣😂😂 True. The raw power of dismissal.
*APE Thatic? Is that you?*
I'm empathetic to your apathetic tone.
CS JOSEPH : they don't waste time
me: * laughs in intp *
I waste plenty of time.
I don't like it when others waste my time. It's my time and if it's going to be wasted, I'll do it.
@@MrOarson exactly
My excuse is a quote from another INTP.
Abraham Lincoln, “Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time”
What you touched on right at the end is so big. It's hard being an INTP when we feel that compulsion and even responsibility to do something important for the world. So often we know what needs to be done but I think we're probably not great leaders so we never have the ability to rally people around our vision and we rarely have the means, resources, or support to fully follow through.
If other INTPs are anything like me, then I think it's probably not uncommon for us to stop having faith in people and instead focus a great amount of time and energy on the things we can do by ourselves. We've realized a long time ago that we can't convince others how important what we are compelled to do is. And we don't really know why, because it's so clear to us, so we just eventually do everything ourselves. In relationships that can be hard because we've already given up on finding anyone to help us. But if you need so much attention that even our personal projects that we have resolved to doing alone suffer we become resentful; because you are literally blocking what we feel is our mandated life's destiny. And then the apathy kicks in. And it's not fair for us to do that to you; I get that.
But what we really want is just freedom, support and encouragement to try to change the world in whatever way we can. That is such a huge deal for us. I know everybody laughs at us and thinks our lofty goals (and numerous failures) are unrealistic and childish, but we know we are capable of great things and we have to try. We may not all end up being John Nash, but we all feel that instinctual potential inside ourselves at every waking moment and our overwhelming desire to be the brilliant mind the world needs is sometimes all-encompassing. Even if we never reach that potential (and few of us will) I think us INTPs are all hard-wired with the innate motivation to either succeed at something game-changing or at least die trying. We have a great fear of wasting our full potential.
But yes, I want to spend time with you! And I want to hear about what you're doing too. And I even want to help you with your own goals! You have no idea how much I want to hear about what you're doing and what's important to you, and I honestly want to help you succeed! But please don't feel betrayed when I'm in work mode and focused on something that I think is really important, even if it seems silly and unrealistic to you. Give me space and encouragement, and then when I come up for air I promise I will focus on you 100% and I will appreciate you so much for allowing me the chance to succeed or fail at these big things that are so important to me. And if you're at all interested in what I'm doing I would love nothing more than to tell you about it and show you my world. I really do care about you, but sometimes I feel like the world needs me (maybe that's a problematic god-complex us INTPs have?) and those are two huge commitments that I can't do at the same time. I need to switch back and forth between them.
INTPs feel a great burden to save the world, regardless of whether it’s in their capability or not. And the need to fulfill this calling can sometimes come at the expense of other people and other responsibilities. From our perspective this is not laziness or carelessness but rather the sacrifice of normal life for the greater good. I apologize when that behaviour comes off as selfish and I'm sorry that makes us so hard to be with sometimes. But if you can love us for who we are I promise we will love you a thousandfold in return. To you INTPs: take great care in mediating your proclivity for antisocial behaviour or you risk pushing those around you away; you may think that’s just another acceptable sacrifice for the cause but you will regret it in the end.
This probably all just sounds really conceited if you're not an INTP. In many ways it is egotistical and definitely existentially motivated to some extent. But don't get it wrong: we are intensely aware of our faults. Most of us probably actually have inferiority complexes because our capabilities are so often no match for our own insane expectations of ourselves. I think we are generally actually a pretty humble bunch. But our lives are driven by a need to produce something great with these ever-whirring minds we have been given. Perhaps it's a little obsessive. Failure doesn't deter us. We will keep trying til we can't.
Hope that helps give some insight into why we are who are. As an aside, I think INTPs are generally fascinated with MBTI because it gives us the rules and data for understanding why others are also the way they are too.
Holy shit every paragraph is so spot on!
Especially the part about the huge fear of wasting our full potential.
Also this strange duality :
- being aware of that instinctual potential for greatness inside which can make us arrogant at times.
- being objective enough to understand only few of us will ever reach that potential which humbles us.
Great comment. I always feel like I'd do best in life hitching my wagon to some rising star, being their detail person. I haven't found that rising star, but I keep on plugging, trying to get somewhere on my own. (Failing a lot)
@@LadyIarConnacht, I always get stumped on the question of whether I'd rather follow or lead, because I know my absolute ideal place is second in command, advisor to the king, the trusted voice that whispers in the ear of the charismatic extrovert who has the social strength to change minds. I don't want to lead because I know I can't, I'm incapable of taking orders, so following is out too, but I do know what needs to be done. If I could find one person who is capable of leadership, who is also willing to listen to me, I'd be more than happy to let them take all the (public) credit because I will know what I've done.
@@thevalkyri u just spoke my mind. I want someone to execute or listen to my advice rather than me taking the lead. Its like i want a charismatic leader who listens to me for advice. Although i wont necessarily call myself a strategist coz often times i find myself not knowing what i wnt but sure i can come up with ideas of something someone wants me to come up with. Its like i dislike following orders and at the same time dislike being the leader. At my core i want to be left alone where i can be me.
@@kangkankrishnasarmapegu7789 Yes, exactly the same here. I've found myself in social situations where it's happened, so I know it's where I need to be, where I am at my best. I need someone who trusts me (and those people are rare) and will take my ideas into the environment that they can affect. I suspect it's because I do often make people feel - maybe overruled, or stupid, or uncomfortable (with the truth I bring). The person needs to be smart too, but more extroverted and yes, more strategic, than I am. I'm not good at strategy either, most of the time, what I am good at is seeing patterns though and being able to predict (that intuitive nature) on account. I often don't know how to play a situation, but I definitely understand the underlying mechanics.
I am an INTP, was married to an ENFJ.... you nailed it. Married 22 years. Four years after the divorce, which I didn't want, she told me she now realizes how selfless and loyal I was to her. I understand your advice for an INTP to avoid self apathy.
Read all “The Rational Male” books
I'm looking at apathy as a break from the whole world, others' expectations and pressure from the environment. I need apathy to clear my settings...
I just wanted to say: you explained INTP better than I have ever heard from any other source. I've read a dozen books about it and always ended up saying, "What the-- what the hell does that even mean?" Because most books either explain things insufficiently or they make INTPs sound like unfixable basket cases. There is one youtube source (won't bother naming the guy) whose video claimed that INTPs, especially women, have "no redeeming qualities." Somebody's got mommy issues.
Acttualy please name the sourse , i am curious
Telling INTP's you won't name a source, what are you thinking man lol.
@@thebeastfrags6291 I'm an INTP, Lol!
Do you just want to watch the irrational presentation, or did you want to troll the comments? If so, be prepared to be told you're "butt-hurt" by teenage TH-camrs.
@@KittyPepperPhd I just enjoy watching things that are stupid, idk why. Maybe it’s morbid curiosity, or maybe some masochistic desire for cringe.
Come on, I got to know who said that
The apathy intps may experience in 'abusive' relationships described here is accurate. Believe it or not, we are more idealistic than most of idealists out there. And if there is a situation or long term situation that is harmful to us, too often we give credit to an abstract system that is faulty rather than acknowledging that the person we are with is abusive. That means we would have to rely on our least favored function, feeling. And that's no fun. lol
oh my, you are so spot on.
I used to date a girl who had a really harsh past. I always used to tell myself that it was "not her fault for the way she behaves. It was due to a wide variety of factors caused by the environment she grew up on, so I cannot blame her for her bad actions. I need to help her and support her"... and she was being abusive...
I even weighted the benefits and cons on a scale and always opted for "this is the best for the future" instead of thinking that she was simply abusive and that I needed to leave her. I kept making up excuses for myself just to stay in the relationship. Good thing it's over.
That is called the "people are so complicated" shrug and sigh.
@@JoseVasquez-vj3lo Uhhg, been there! I tend to be understanding of pathological behaviors... I'm very curious of why people do bad things, so I quickly figure out the reasoning behind them. But sometimes I suffer the consequences, I'm just realizing now that you mentioned... So, is that an INTP thing?
I agree
Probaly why so many of us INTP's are overrepresented in trolling communities aswell as largely responsable for the categorisation of systems such as TRP and MGTOW both quarantined on reddit, behind every cynic is a scratched idealist or something like that right?
My INTP brother definitely absorbs everything that is being said and is extremely attentive even though he doesn't signalise it. In school he never took notes in class or studied for tests. He said that simply him being in class was enough for him to remember and understand everything that the teacher said.
I'm an INTP and I was the same in school. Just being in the class room was enough for me. I never took notes. I was always on the honor roll and even graduated with honors. My attentiveness came on handy
Oh boy, this explains why i never excel at a class when i didn't like the teacher/didn't fit their teaching style then absolutely aced it the next year with different teacher
I always did better in classes when I had people I liked and could talk to in them.
Here an INTP'' female, like your brother in school. 😜😂
That was me through the end of high school, but then I went to a tough college and the fact that I never learned a single study skill and had a backwards work ethic hit me like a freight train
We are low maintenance, but what little we do need is essential. Love with distance, flip once a day to prevent sticking, communicate directly, and never betray our trust.
Apathy is my superpower.
“Respect their comfy time” ... Facts😂
We’re slow to anger and slow to cool
“The last place they need to be disrespected is the home” amen!!!
You’re brilliant about saying “well this is what we’re doing moving forward” as a response to “I don’t know”, because an INTP will say “I don’t know” for an insane amount of time if they can get away with it. The only way to get them engaged is making decisions for them as it hella bothers them aha. I also use to go ahead and book things regardless if they said no and then surprised them. They would hate the idea of the surprise, but really enjoyed themselves once we did the activity.
Thank you for acknowledging we are great cooks 😃👩🍳☺️ I always figured that skill was born of necessity, for those who *had to* cook for themselves and others growing up. An intuitive understanding of what "goes together," a willingness to experiment (as opposed to mindlessly following a recipe) and a scientific approach also help (even a basic understanding of the Maillard reaction goes a long way) IMHO. But you're right, I cook to share a good experience. I make food to taste as good as possible. I get a lot of satisfaction out of seeing people clean their plates and ask for seconds and thirds. It's also flattering to me to see the lengths people are willing to go to in order to have me cook on Thanksgiving. So in a sense I'm also just a glutton for gratitude.
Ive always been super proud that I taught myself to cook! Know that I see your comparison to science experiment, its no wonder we might have a fascination with cooking but its also a practical experince we can create that MOST people appreciate. Cool!
Yes! I had no idea this was an INTP trait! I love the problem solving challenge of cooking and I am very good at it. I almost never cook for just myself but I love to make excellent food when I have appreciative people to cook for :)
I'm an intp and I am better at cooking than my parents. I enjoy food that tastes good and I'm generally pretty adept at actually cooking it as well as I am pretty patient.
Josh Jones Great point that slipped my mind. Patience helps tremendously with cooking. I see so many people get impatient and crank up the oven 50° halfway through because something isn't cooking fast enough. Then the texture and evenness comes out ruined. Prep for certain dishes also takes patience. Marinating, slow-cooking, bread-making, infusing, setting, pickling, and of course aging. Even when you have to spend a lot of time soaking, scrubbing, peeling, and chopping, patience helps.
yeah Si patience is very prominent in how we conduct ourselves. Sometimes I take too much time to do something just to make sure it is accurate otherwise known as delaying output which is another recurring behavior in INTPs.
lmao im procrastinating with this video and not 30 seconds in to his advice to INTPs is "Cause no one else is going to meet your needs. You have to, Si child. Get over yourself."
im dead. certainly in my vice rn
very true though
I can't believe I'm actually crying to this. It's everything i needed to hear all my life and I never got them.
INTP here. I honestly can't believe how accurate this is, all the way down to the details. I've always felt my attentiveness being much higher than most, and I'm constantly irritated by the things people miss. Feeling ignored, as you say, is most likely THE most upsetting thing for me. Likewise, my ability to be indifferent is absurd, and has been the end of many, many relationships.
In essence: "If I'm here to talk to you and you aren't here to listen to me, why should I be here or care about you at all?" They don't even need to directly ignore me, simply misinterpreting words or meaning too much is enough: "I chose my words very carefully, and you don't value them (or me) enough to even listen and accurately understand what I said. If I'm not heard or valued, then I have nothing to say, and I don't care for you."
When I talk to people, I'm ALWAYS hearing EVERY word they say, no matter where I'm looking or what I'm doing. I think it may give people the impression that I'm 'ok' with only being half engaged in a conversation, so they do the same (except I'M fully engaged in the conversation, they just aren't able to replicate the unseen attentiveness). If a show is playing, I'll tune it out of my ears before the person. If I missed a single word to the background noise, I'll ask for a repeat. I make it a point, first and foremost, to never ignore a person. Partially for their sake, and partially so that I don't miss a single detail (analytically minded after all). If I don't feel that effort returned in full, I quickly become bitter and apathetic.
I have a question though. For over a decade (I'm 22 y.o.) I've focused heavily on being agreeable and sociable, even when I don't want to be. My ESFJ mother always thought I was sad or missing out on parties or friends, and made me think I should feel bad when I missed out on social activities. She pushed her big fat dominant Fe on me and for the longest time I always assumed it was something wrong with me to not enjoy these social feel-y things. I assumed that what she said was good would feel good to me, and it took me a long time to realize that she and I value different things.
But now I seriously struggle to say "no", or to speak my mind, or to disengage from an unwanted activity if it would be to someone else's detriment. Since I also seriously struggle with apathy, I thought my goal should be to force myself and learn to enjoy these things (like my mom would say). But toeing the line between forcing interest and trying to avoid apathy can be confusing. I often don't realize I don't want to do something until a little after the fact, since I'm thinking of what the other people want and may respond reflexively, pretending to be an Fe so that no one gets upset.
"A little self respect goes a long way", "Be attentive to yourself", etc. But how do I make sure I'm giving myself enough self respect to put my foot down on what I want, and not simply saying no out of an unhealthy apathy?
If I don't want to be social, is it because I actually don't want to be social, or is it because I've grown bitter from feeling ignored in social settings over the years and am trying to distance myself via apathy? Does that make sense?
Maybe in essence, how do I know what I want and learn to be confident in what I want without being a dick to people?
Mr The Alligator thank you for your questions. The answer exists in two separate playlists on this channel. Please watch them in order and in heir entirety: “the four pillars of self intimacy” and “how relationships actually works”
C.S. Joseph I'll take a look, thanks!
Mr InvestiGator Wow. I'm glad I never had a mother like that. I'm about a decade older than you and I used to struggle with the same problem -- I still do to a certain extent, but I've learned to figure out what I want and put my foot down much better.
I have a few quick tips for you.
1. Do keep an open mind and explore, but don't try to force yourself to like something you don't like. If you didn't like it the first ten times, you probably won't like it the next ten times. Just because someone else likes something doesn't mean you have to value the same (this, you already know; just reaffirming).
2. When you are getting burnt out from a social interaction, don't wait until you get past your breaking point to say something. You are likely to come across more abrasive and tactless if all your patience is exhausted first. Giving family/friends a friendly warning that you can only talk for 10 more minutes and then you have to go is a lot better than exploding on them or going full-on apathy once you are past your breaking point and feel like your brain is going to explode if you hear any more talking! Learn to set boundaries pro-actively and you will likely avoid hurt feelings and resentment on both ends.
3. Once you get more experience making decisions for yourself of your own volition, instead of going with the flow and placating others, you get better at making those decisions, because you have to live with the consequences, as you cannot blame someone else for pressuring you or giving you no option. So once you start to experience the consequences of your own choices, you start getting a better feel for what you *really* want, by virtue of the repurcussions.
4. If you're not sure whether true desire or apathy/bitterness is motivating your urges, there's no simple surefire answer, but one tip I can give you is to think about how you feel after acting on that urge. When I put my foot down and stand up for what I really wanted, I feel good afterwards. I feel like a huge weight has lifted off my chest and I'm proud of myself for being assertive. When I'm letting fear, insecurity, or any emotional or cognitive bias cloud my judgement, I feel guilty afterwards. It may take a while to click, but I eventually realize I didn't need to be so harsh or that I could have compromised or that I may be taking someone's efforts for granted.
Don't feel guilty about doing what makes you happy; we all experience happiness in different ways.
I'm sure Chase has some better advice, but this is what came to mind off the top of my head. Hope this helps in some way.
Heather Bryant Great advice, thank you :)
Heather Bryant preach, excellent comment!
The apathy is me with my father. I don't have a relationship with him and everyone in my family thinks I'm super torn up inside because of it (as my siblings often exhibit in their emotions). And my family knows I'm the quiet one so I must be bottling my emotions. I've told them at least a dozen times I just really don't care. I am not sad over it and I am not happy over it. I am indifferent and apathetic and I kinda just wish people would hear my candid perspective and leave it at that. I made it this far without a dad so why would I be sad over it? lol.
Summarization:
We dont get emotions
Logic all the way
If you dont show interest, we will loose interest in a heart beat
Too bright for our own good
Persostent as hell
Hate people who are idiots
Hate authority
Like being alone
Loyal as hell
In this society today, our type is screwed...
Esoteric African not really tho. Why do you say that?
We get emotions, we just deny them until we explode.
@@silverman824 Indeed
I’ve watched this three times over in about 12 hours, your work is truly brilliant.
Awesome, thank you for your support :)
I know a bunch of INTPs and literally all of them cook....and really well. One of them even started food blog. So funny that you mentioned that aspect.
There are INTPs that aren't necessarily into cooking. And there's a very simple reason why. They can't be bothered to do or learn it.
Indifference/apathy at the helm.
I hate cooking I’m INTP
@@fjabri i hate cooking but i love food bruh-intp
I can cook a couple meals really well, and the rest turns to slop every time. Hahah
When I actually put the effort in to cook it usually turns out pretty well and I've received compliments on my cooking. But that is not the norm, usually I don't feel bothered to cook out of enjoyment, only necessity.
This is so accurate. It hurts. INTP woman here
I know. But we can literally just shut off the emotion part of our brain.
Only for a time bro
😅😅😅😅😅
This definitely sheds some light. During a year plus of Covid lockdown, the people I know couldn’t grasp that my life really wasn’t much different other than working from home. I felt as if I had been training for isolation all my life. However, when someone who is accustomed to huge amounts of alone time reaches the breaking point and starts feeling lonely and isolated, I realized just how bad things have gotten. Now with things getting back to normal, realizing that I have really little to no good friends left, I feel completely lost. Learning more about the apathetic tendencies of my personality, I realize that it has become my entire existence. How does an INTP break out of the biggest apathy pit of their existence? How does an adult INTP try and make new friends? This task seems virtually impossible and I am at a complete loss.
Please get a job. Any job
As an INTP, looking in someone's eyes while they are trying to talk to me makes it so much harder for me to concentrate on what they are saying. Looking at other things while someone is speaking to us really helps us focus. And when we are looking at someone in the eyes it makes us nervous and uncomfortable which interrupts our attention
Lots of intps are stuck in abusive relationships because of that apathy. Also, does Ni critic not being decisive enough , Si child being too comfortable, Fe inferior not wanting to upset anyone and Fi demon not caring about what it wants the fundamentals of this problem?
manish maharjan yessir, that is correct, aka the ultimate doormat
TRUTH! I think the one other type that has a tendancy to be a doormat are unhealthy isfjs. Especially the males. Most of the male isfjs in my life are doormats in their relationships.
Emily W yeah definitely, ESFJs too
C.S. Joseph could you do a comparison with INTP and ESFJ? They look so opposite when you only see the ego cognitive functions (though the four highest functions are the same but in different order) but I find lots of feeling of similarity in real life! Both super tolerant, speak the truth... etc
Infp too?
I have a hard time making eye contact with people. And its easier to listen to people when im not distracted by their eyes.
But im sure it drives a lot of people nuts; thinking im being apathetic. When really im doing it so I can pay even more attention.
well said
INTP is also a big group that High Functioning Autistics fall into when evaluated, so the dislike of eye contact can be a truly significant thing with that cross over.
If I’m in a conversation I give really good eye contact maybe even a bit too intense sometimes but your way of describing the eyes as distracting really piques my interest for some reason. I can get lost in someone’s eyes in a split second and my mind starts thinking of god knows what and I’ve never understood why.
THIS IS ACTUALLY RELATED TO NEURO-LINGUISTIC PROGRAMMING! LISTENING BETTER WHEN U DONT MAKE EYE-CONTACT MEANS YOU RECALL THINGS AND THINK THINGS USING KINESTHETICS. Kinesthetics NLP users look down and to the left or right! Wow that means majority if not all INTPs have a Kinesthetic NLP! And ISTPs too! (watch keanu reeves charisma on command to get it)
I used to have the same issue, but I trained myself to do it back when I was a teenager. If you practice it, it becomes intuitive and you don’t have to rationalize it. I notice people really appreciate it when I do it, because they really feel like they have my full sustained attention.
Whenever I talk to people, I look towards something stationary, because looking at someone’s face will inadvertently make me study their facial cues, and viola, I’m not paying attention to what they are speaking.
And I don’t understand the idea behind eye contact, I get that it helps trust the person more, but who needs trust when there’s hard bound evidence.
It's more to see the hidden motives and if they might be lying. Also it's a second form of emotional communication. There is so much information in the eyes and the tone of the voice.
You are brilliant! When I talk to INTP I also notice that he couldn’t at the same time respond to me when he’s working but in 5 minuets he would respond to my question that I already forgot! 💪🏻💪🏻 I know he was listening but just couldn’t give out the response at the same time but he will respond when he is available (which works the same for calls)
interesting point. I didnt think of it in that context before.
It's the absentminded professor side of the INTP.
In many ways it's why I prefer text-based messaging systems over voice. You can just get back to the message when you've got the time. And people consciously realize that it works that way. Even though normal (verbal) communication works that way for me as well.
Yes, we are doing full Minority Report style scratching of our memory in the mean time.
I have noticed that much like a computer system which uses Interrupt queues to gain access to components, INTPs (of which I am one) can only output to one thing at a time and certain types of input, especially when it has drawn full intensity, will so totally dominate our brain that any output at all is impossible, without a jarring physical interruption of our thoughts. Another's comments/requests hit a buffer that just builds up and will be processed later once the overriding stimulus has passed and we check our "messages" that have been held in queue. One quick note, don't ever let an INTP know that you have forgotten about your once "pressing desire" for INTP feedback, when they do get back with a response. Just thank them for finally getting back with a response, perhaps joke about how long it took them, they will laugh and be a bit sheepish and know it was poor form, but it wont punish them for their effort to comply with your request for comment. If you let them know that you had forgotten about your request, or claim later that it wasn't important, you will have lowered the priority of your future requests to unimportant. Perhaps not the first time, but over time after time, eventually you will train the INTP to relegate all of your requests to the unimportant, and put into the to-be-discarded pile of sensory input that accumulated in the INTPs queue.
@@Hawkido I read that whole thing and enjoyed it but I'm an intp. I don't think our target audience would spend the time to read that though lol.
It's so true about needing information and facts to back up your argument. I'm really enjoying your videos, and I am a good cook.
Do INTPs have a bigger tendency to ghost people than other types? I simply disappear from shitty relationships, but I only do so if they deserve it. I wouldn't cut people out for no reason. See, I come off as sweet, easygoing, and naive/absent-minded (aka 'doormat material') to most people until they really get to know me. I absolutely abhor confrontation, I turn into something I don't recognize when cornered into an emotional situation (like a short-circuiting demon-child-robot). I'd rather do us both a favor and avoid that. I need to process...ALONE, and get plenty of sleep after. If I decide that our relationship is worth salvaging, we'll talk (don't worry, I will be deliberating obsessively and thoroughly, analyzing everything that's happened, words said, every minute detail of every interaction we've ever had, weighing all the experiences good vs bad...preferably with pizza and Dave Chapelle reruns playing in the background as my only company). I actually caused a couple of xSTxs and one xSFJ to tremble in shock and fear the last time this happened...they pushed me into a confrontation and wouldn't leave me alone (suffice to say, they learned their lesson and it never happened again, 2 I ghosted, and the ISTJ ended up as my best friend). Oh, and I do have crappy family members who I refuse to cut out, because they're blood (go figure). I just limit my interactions with them to the bare minimum...this is where my apathy shines brightest, as oxymoronic as that sounds.
Yes.
same
This!
INTP approved.
Could you make a video that covers, essentially, advice for INTP's? Most of your videos discuss the nature of the INTP or dealing with an INTP from the perspective of a significant other. This is great, very informative, and overall helpful, but advice specifically for dealing with these downfalls of the INTP as an INTP would help a lot of people, because a lot of INTP's are SEVERE social outcasts.
Much respect for putting these MBTI videos out, you've helped many.
Mike Dang thank you for your support, I will be doing relationship videos right after I finish my series on compatibility
From INTP, I've read that INTP do best in cognitive-behavioural therapy (recognising and challenging unhelpful thoughts that hopefully leads to behavioural change), although I'd like to recognise and react to my negative emotions (which is not a part of this approach) so I wouldn't turn into an amoeba when something goes south and it'd stop causing me anxiety in the long run. Emotions can work as a signpost for your values and goals, as a life compass, but you need to recognise them instead of repressing. That's where I'm at at the moment. Also, never, ever try group therapy ;P, unless you're set on a mission of finding out how different from others you are and that's the exact opposite to this therapy's goal.
I don't care a bit about "things" or money or power or notariety. Just always chasing logical solutions to the universe and existence.
I wasn't really paying attention. But I digested everything.
As an INTP, it is difficult to care about worldly things when I don't believe any of it matters logically. I see patterns everywhere and see, in my head, at all times, tv style overlays of vectors and equations. I walk past a troubled person, and I am bombarded with THEIR emotional energy. Conversely, and sadly more rarely, I get hit with someone's joy. I see all possibilities at once. I hear a song and I hear all instruments in unison and separate at the same time. I watch movies and tv and know what's going to happen 5 min in. Drives my gf nuts (ENFP). Haha. I'm always right. I blurt the spoilers too because I think out loud a lot. Not much of a filter and if it annoys people, I see it as their problem. May have some form of aspergers. I pick up musical instruments in 5 min and it's like I just see how it works. Same with tech. Causality over determinism, and much more often fatalistic over optimistic. My mind is turned to 1000000 all the time. Can't sleep right. It's like my conscious mind and subconscious are always both awake and communicating. I cant be in a quiet space. My thoughts are too "loud" and incessant. IQ ab 140. Not the smartest guy, but not an idiot. My dad is a full 10-15 pts ahead of me. I cant grasp basic algebra, but I understand the principles of quantum physics, geometry, and chemistry. I paint and people buy my art. I just started painting out of nowhere and I wad just good at it. If I'm interested, I see the patterns and become obsessed with logic and solutions. If I am not passionate about something, it's like trying to read Russian, which looks like the crazy buttons on a TI82 calculator. I see history and I see the present and I see the future possibilties, and I see a pattern that makes me apathetic. I like to fight, but never start one. I'm always waiting for the next thing that stimulates me enough to distract me from the ever-dueling aspects of my mental compartments. It's kind of fucked, being an INTP.
I really needed to hear a lot of this as an INTP. I am fairly evolved/mature at this stage in my life - due to lots of therapy and interest in becoming a better version of myself. However I am also aware that self-respect, boundaries and "what I want" are all things I have struggled with my entire life.
I am at a crossroads with the INTJ I have been dating for the last 4 years... he is often frustrated that I don't articulate my needs and wants. I see now how valuable it will be for me to spend some time clarifying this aspect of my life and "leveling up" my personal standards for what I should expect from the man in my life and all my relationships.
You have given me so much to think about. I really appreciate your insights. Thank you!
Fancy seeing you here miss Qualia
kaiserin yoleba Hey! Ummm... you obviously are friends with me on Facebook if you are calling me “Qualia” and there are only two people - I think - that know this nickname. Is this Kevin?? Lol
Who all knows that you are Qualia?
kaiserin yoleba Lol- the guy that asked me the other day why you call me that. I don’t even know who it was. At least I know this is Kevin for sure now.
You could watch the INTJ version of this video, I am sure it will give you some clues.
Intp's can be so petty, we need to develop love and joy
You have changed my life. I thought there was just something wrong with me. I even have a patent pending to change the world and I am second guessing that its all in my head and I am just weird. You have me nailed right down to my clothes and unable to match a shirt and tie. Wow. And the respect thing? Totally me. Apathy? I am walking around on a broken foot just to see if I can. What amazing insight you bring the world. Thank you sir. Thank you!
You are most welcome sir.
Wow; you are really good. As an INTP, I found this video to be very helpful and very accurate. Yeah, my mentality has always been that if someone assumes or accuses me of doing something or of having motives I don't, I may as well "commit the crime". I've already been deemed guilty, yes? So true that people need to back their opinions/beliefs up with data/info when arguing with/debating an INTP; I very much dislike and rather disrespect uninformed opinions and won't bother engaging. I very much appreciate you granting permission to/absolving us of guilt for leaving unhealthy relationships. In relationships, I will clearly state and explain my boundaries/needs and I have often found this to be a huge issue as the other person always seems to take this personally and react passive-aggressively. My needs are fairly basic: I need a decent amount of alone time in order to recharge and I like deep and meaningful conversations once in a while (I WANT them all the time but most people don't want to engage, I find). I don't like to be constantly criticized for being an intuitive; I already spend a good amount of time and effort trying to be aware of the external world (not freaking out about necessary paperwork, cleaning the house, doing yard work, showering lol etc) and don't want the person who loves me best to find me always lacking bc I'm less capable than most people in the real-world. I love, love that you said to devote the attentiveness to people who respect and protect our needs and boundaries and to save the apathy for everyone else; lovely observation and comment. I find that I very much respond to understand ENTPs when they are explaining/teaching something. Thanks for the video.
You are most welcome, I will stab anyone that hurts INTPs, I love you all so dearly.
ISFP here. First of all, I'm enjoying this insightful series very much!
Been in a relationship with an INTP for about 7 years, and he's the most attentive person I've ever met. Back to when we were getting to know each other, his non-judgemental nature, genuine interest in my thoughts, feelings and things I've done pretty much sealed the deal for me!
That eagerness for discoveries and learning was new to me, and we Fi doms tend to be careful about revealing ourselves to others unless we feel they're trustworthy. Once we do and we can be who we really are it's heaven on earth lol.
Of course, from time to time I do get a little heated when my beliefs are being questioned, but I've learned that it's nothing personal. Anyway, he's still like this even after all these years, and his ability to always come up with a new perspective on everything never fails to amaze me!
INTPs, at your best, you're fascinating human beings, with your unique insights and unconventional way of dealing with life :)
The reasons I keep covert contracts are twofold. 1) People are systems. If I'm still in observation mode at the beginning of a relationship, I'm extremely reluctant to corrupt the system's natural behavioral response by feeding it my expectations. Understanding a person is fundamental to predicting future outcomes - i.e., will it last? 2) I respect the autonomy of a loved one highly, which makes it difficult to make requests that are not essential or that I can manage on my own. But it's all problematic if I keep this running for too long because re: reason 1, at some point I have to value the health of the relationship by valuing the sharing of needs over perfecting my conceptions of the person. And re: reason 2, I must resist the feeling that I'm controlling others since giving and receiving strengthen bonds.
Just wanted to comment on your first reason for keeping covert contracts. I wouldn't worry about this issue, because while i understand not wanting to corrupt the system by staying in observation mode, unless you literally don't say or do a thing during this time, there is some information being emitted regardless, and the system will be adapting to that info instead of info gathered from your true self. So, there really isn't a way to have a relationship with someone without them augmenting their behaviors to that stimuli. I'd just be yourself
@@zakjsethrea7816 True. My concern is more about imposing expectations my reflecting friendship values early in the relationship (contracts), even though I do set my boundaries and that changes their behavior in a direction I don't mind in the least.
Being an INTP listening to this makes me feel good. Everything you said is true from my experiences and I will be taking your relationship advice thank you. Great videos! I struggle with relations with others because of my apathy. My soon to be ex girlfriend keeps wondering why her words are not being heard and now I realise it's because too much bad has been done. We started off great I gave her all the attention in the world. And then she pooped on me time and time again pushing me further and further away. I guess me remembering the good times has kept me going but you are correct these relationships are unhealthy for anyone but especially INTP. Again thank you. Keep it up
The attentiveness can be a problem too. For example when my daughter plays videogames, she rambles about every miniscule detail that happens in the game. I would never tell her to to talk less, but after a while it feels like my mind is starting to short circuit if I'm doing something else at the same time. The things she says when she's an uncontrollable word fountain gives me a better picture of the game though, so I can talk to her about her game with better understanding when she's normal.
Then again I guess exploding heads is more of a general parenting thing than an INTP thing.
Minsta Katten well said lol
It always happens to me, when I go out with my mom and my little sisters, maybe I am talking to my mom and my sisters start to talk to her (she doesnt care) my head just starts to explode
Wow I just realized how annoying I must be to other people when I start rambling about a new coding technique/art technique/idea/concept/etc. I just discovered...
INTP here, never bothered w/ make up, not a priority for me.
INTP. I use apathy as a weapon sometimes. If someone is going to be manipulative and abusive... I do the INTP fade out. I also think it's funny to do the ghosting when really gross unhealthy ESFP start trying to make me notice them by being more abusive and intrusive and attention seeking lol
“Endurance “ ahhh hitting the gym super hard and days afterward feeling the pain lmao
INFP married to an INTP here....thank you for this video it is hugely helpful in understanding my husband better. I was the brunt of his Apathy when we were teenagers and he was 'done with me'. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life (and worth working towards never experiencing again!!!). You've made me realise I don't verbalise how much I respect and appreciate the work he does, enough in our relationship. This video has also made me appreciate how hard he has to work at not being apathetic towards our INFP-son who fails to show him any respect. We have 3 (almost) teenage sons, our INTP-son and ISTP-son show him a lot of respect and listen avidly to any information he tries to throw at them in his frequent and long 'sermons' about life and his work (and goodness he can just go on and on and ON into the night ;). Our INFP-son only puts on a show of listening to avoid direct conflict. INFP-son makes it clear that he thinks none of what his father tries to teach him is of value and has even stolen money from him (further making my INTP-husband feel that his 'work' is not appreciated by this son who takes the fruits of his labour with no appreciation and goes as far as to steal from him). I'm not entirely sure how to bridge the gap between my INFP-son and my INTP-husband but I do respect that my husband continues to try despite him being 'done with' our INFP-son on so many occasions. I fear it was me who created this problem by coddling INFP-son because I thought the other family members were too hard on him (since he was the hyper sensitive one), ugh! If only I could have a do-over...
Chaotic Jen - Chaotically Minimal thank you for your comment, please watch my play list on the four pillars of self intimacy and
Chaotic Jen - Chaotically Minimal my other playlist: “how intimate relationships actually work”
Thank you :) I will do!
(INTP female) I love your videos. I find them super insightful. I have been extremely apathetic and reclusive over this last decade, and I've been doing a lot of work on myself, so I can develop healthy relationships with people. This video really resonated with me. I will most definitely be doing my journaling later on this, and really dissecting it's relevance to me. IDK if you read these, but if you do, I just want to say thank you. I really appreciate what you've put into them.
I try to read them all.
I just started making videos on my own thoughts being an INTP, and those last two minutes summed it up and crushed any excuses. I need to set standards. That Si childlike mind feels like it has carried me a majority of my life by allowing me to escape to another world and ignore reality, when things got uncomfortable, but I didn't realize how manipulative it is and how manipulative it made me towards people close to me.This manipulation went from inside to outside, and allowed me to become better actor and come up with grandiose stories that allow me to change someone's narrative of the situation in their mind so I can continue to be lazy and not hold responsibilty. It also "felt" as though it harbored my creative thoughts so I never set a boundary around it, even though it has a lot to do with my attentiveness (or lack thereof). Thank you.
INTP girl here.
I loved what you said because that's the exact reason why my ex bf and I broke up. He always thought that he didn't matter to me and when he started saying it CONSTANTLY I became apathetic, which lead me to tell him to "give us time" because I didn't know how to end our relationship without hurting him so i let him do it.
I'm sorry if my English is bad but I really like your videos and I'll watch the ones about other MBTI types too because I love how you explain everything. Nice work!
I hate when people ask me if I’m paying attention 🙄. **Im paying attention but I’m just not making eye contact because I use my ears to listen and my head(eyes) to think. While I’m thinking there’s already so many backed up situations on what I’m about to say. 😂
You talk about apathy as a vice. Every example you give sounds like rational conflict management to me. If someone is exhibiting negative behavior, your only real options are to engage in conflict or disengage. If the goal is to NOT hurt the other person, then disengaging is the rational decision.
Of course, if the negative behavior is repetitive, cutting that person out of your life like the cancer they are is the next step- at which time you'll be grateful for the emotional distance already created.
We ( I ) am not responsible for fixing someone else's bad behavior.
Period.
The INTP I knew actually started with the attacks then disengaged.
This apathy thing is only respectable when it goes both ways.
If you have the incentive to protect yourself from conflict and destructive engagement then you should have the decency to afford it to the other party as well.
It’s a two way street that seemed to always be one way with the INTP i knew, it was always attack then deflect and project.
It felt very abusive, not the other way around.
@@mirrorimage3606 so you're saying that the INTP is bad, because it protected himself? But that statement admits that he had something to protect himself from, which by definition is an opponent. So, why is it wrong to protect yourself from an opponent, and how is there any rational expectation that you would protect your opponent?
Seems you're playing the victim card here, but all of the actual bad behavior is on the other side.
Christian Swensen Also I never said they were bad because they protected themselves.
I said they were bad because they attacked.
If you don’t like getting attacked or being vulnerable in any way, if you’re particularly sensitive to negativity, then you should not inflict that upon others.
Like I said, a two way street.
@@mirrorimage3606 you used the word disengage. That is the exact opposite of an attack, and the only way that could be considered bad behavior is if the other party is somehow entitled to some special behavior. This is where playing the victim car becomes its own bad act, where doing so it an attempt to put the other on the defensive.
Disengaging, is very literally and completely, non offensive. It is almost a perfect definition of being non offensive. It could not be any less ambiguous.
If you did not mean to use the word disengage, then that's on you. If you used the word correctly, then everything I said stands correct. Your word salad does not entitle anyone (you, me, or any theoretical third party) to another person's attention or effort.
Christian Swensen
lol
You’re attacking again.
That’s fine. I asked for your input but this a second attack. ‘Word salad’.
Even though you know my words are very coherent.
Disengage does not mean stay away from an attack. It means to free oneself from any sort of situation, not limited to attacks. That’s from the dictionary.
Go check it.
I asked for input but you attacked.
Take a chill pill dude. This isn’t personal and is not directed to you.
Very interesting indeed.
theory: depression is the antithesis to foolish heroism.
in some odd kind of twist the dance between caring too much about life (attentiveness) and caring too little (apathy) ensures that we eventually
balance our "care diet" by choosing only what matters to care about (fi demon?)
Childhood is more important than adulthood. You can fall from a high place but you will never fall if you never get there. It's way easier to lose brain cells than to gain.
There is actually a slight positional nuance that I'm not sure is being addressed here, and I want to elucidate for my own benefit. Once I've given someone the latitude and freedom to express their motivations and intentions toward me enough to come to a determination about how they will primarily orient themselves toward me, two main patterns seem to emerge that I then orient myself to respond to. These patterns of apathy/seeming apathy are my guidelines when I'm healthy and mindful, though my use of them breaks down if I'm unhealthy:
Actual apathy: If the primary positional orientation has been determined to be one of abuse with no motivation or intention to grow together and learn from each other, then I couldn't give a shit anymore. Truly, wiped clean. No pearls for swine. I make the decision on the relationship's future.
Seeming apathy: If the primary positional orientation has been determined to be one of mutual understanding and growth, but the person is in a non-primary pattern whose motivations and intentions are abusive with no good manifesting for either of us to grow and learn together, and I have appropriately expressed that to them, then seeming apathy will kick in. It seems to them that I am apathetic, but I am fretting all the day long and hoping that they will find the value in reorienting their position toward me. Depending on the depth and value of our relationship, so far, I'm willing to give quite a bit of latitude during these times to my inner circle peeps, but once the event horizon is reached, I have to withdraw, and it seems apathetic, while in truth I am being attentive to both them and myself. By continuing to be overtly attentive, all I do is give them permission to abuse me further, and simultaneously allow them to stay in this positional orientation which is making them sick. They make the decision on the relationship's future.
These guidelines stem from my certainty that I can't control other people, and will not get caught up again in trying to convince someone that I don't deserve abuse. When I'm unhealthy and reacting instead of mindfully responding to abuse I absolutely get all "covert contracty." In these cases I pretend to myself that I'm using my "seeming apathy" response but in actuality I'm so scared and lost in the moment that I'm not giving them enough information for their ultimate decision to be an accurate reflection of our relation. Eww...that makes me nauseous. Then instead of taking responsibility and responding mindfully, I abdicate my responsibility and blame them for "their decision" to end the relationship. I can see how I've done this in the past... It makes me sick.
I can see I have quite a bit of healing to do from my relationship with a narcissistic sister, who made it impossible to express my discomfort or needs without her exploding immediately and turning everything around on me. I've seen her do it to everyone she has a relationship with. I used to cry and cry and wonder what I was doing wrong, but in truth, there was nothing that I could do if I wanted to be a healthy, respected person in her environment. I dropped the relationship forever the second I noticed her doing it to my three year old son... This has absolutely established a pattern in me that is expressed when I'm unhealthy. I'm so fucking terrified to say anything about my own needs or concerns in fear that the other person will just blow up and stop talking to me for months, that I abdicate my responsibility and pretend they are bad people and they made the decision. Actually, when I started this comment I thought I was expressing my guidelines in my mainly healthy orientation most of the time, but now I'm seeing that I'm still stepping on my tongue most of the time...fuck...
Im an Intp. Unconditional love is a disney classic.
I rarely cry but did at the end of the video. I have to say, started watching many months ago but then I abandoned this specific video because I did not fully understand the context or process how you got there. Now after many months of listening to you I know that so it spoke directly to the core. I also love this special love you give to us. Yes of course you state what is true for all types and you do both the negative and positive (so to say) for all. But somehow I feel you protective towards INTPs and that is such a good feeling because we rarely get that, we are very rarely understood.
I can now walk that park with my eyes closed😂😂
😂👌
DAMN it. This line- "The Si child is so used to being disrespected, the last place they need to be disrespected is at home. " This hits a nerve. I wonder WHY, we have to be disrespected everywhere else. I know we are; But I usually cannot do anything about it at that moment. It's much later that I think about it and realise and let that sink in and feel shitty about the whole situation and that eats up my self esteem. I usually don't care about how people percieve me, but sometimes how people percieve me make myself percieve me in a certain way. Sigh.
yeah the last lines in ur comment hits real hard as when i realize what people actually meant and how they perceived me i actually break down ....this makes me connect all of the stuff related to that experiance with that shitty thing as it is not logical in any sense . This is also a reason y i can say i am sensetive to negativity
Because intps are doormats
Once again Guy, the accuracy...mind blown.
I actually wrote this long winded response to provide examples as to why you are right, but then I became aware that you know you are right.
You wouldn't have had the confidence to make this video otherwise.
Therefore, you do not need my examples. They were pretty good examples though.
However, I will point out something about a personal issue with being attentive:
I can only half listen to what others are saying because in my head two things are happening;
I am connecting everything you are saying to everything I know and little places of understanding what you are saying are lighting up this previous knowledge in my brain that I compare it to...then all of this new information is being cycled with the old information that is creating a hybrid of both the new and the old information to alter or cancel out the previous information that is simultaneously laced with the information being forced into my head by things that I can't ignore around me.
Then...the rabbit hole effect happens and I'm gone somewhere in my mind and you're repeating my name and I have no idea until you're waving your hand in front of my face.
Or the second:
You are too much or you are too boring and I auto pilot my responses while thinking of something more interesting to me.
Powerful words, as an intp it felt like I was visited by a guardian angel who came to support me. Thanks man, Im listening to it for a second time in a row.
It's pretty fucking pathetic when it feels like some random guy on the internet gets me more than the people I'm surrounded by...
preach
Here we go again, the new rabbit hole
Hereby I give You a like for a good nick
I actually came to tears at some parts of the video based on how others treat me after I've done something for them. Often times I feel as though what I do is in vain when all I want is a simple thank you. My parents, I love them, but in particular, forgot to say thank you for the things I did for them. It either left me bitter or gave me self doubt. But they became better and over the years I've learned that they do appreciate me because of that unconditional love thing that happens between parents and child (I'm also their only child). But that's only because I have learned my faults over the years, being expectant and not thanking others. Only when I started saying thank you to people around us did my parents also start doing the same. I guess it just takes some subtlety (leaving the seed of an idea) with my "subtle contract" that they also took to making it their own mission to be more appreciative.
Well said
This has been helpful in raising a INTP son. Thank you
What are you?
@@martav7858 I am ISFJ
Man the respect thing is dead on. You can hate me and throw a fit and call me an asshole, but you must ultimately still respect/admire my intellect, skills, and creativity.
"Their virtue is attention and their vice is apathy, what does this mean?"
It means that they are listening but they don't care.
God, maybe we INTPs are assholes lmao
We're cats, lol
⚞WOW!⚟ I've been waiting for this one. It sure seems right-on to me. But I need to listen to it several more times.
this video is the most healing video I ever watched on youtube. It makes me want to cry. it's amazing how you know more about me than I do. thank you so much
It's so true. The absentminded professor INTP - you say something to them. Odds are? They hear you... Odds are? They will respond if it's relevant... But in that moment? They are otherwise occupied.
I experience this myself, when I'm "in the zone"? I can take in so much information from all around me. Or I can choose to shut it all out and focus solely on the one thing I'm busy with.
There's a reason I don't want kids. Because I know I can be like that.
It is totally up to you.
Yes my INTP brother is an excellent cook! So am I (INFP). We are the gourmands of the family. My brother also crafts amazing raspberry wine from raspberries that he grew himself.
you're interpretation was a beautiful tribute...it was EXCELLENT!!
You are AMAZING!! Thank you for these videos :) I'm an INTP, my best friend is an INTJ. I never knew what true friendship was until I met her and I am so blessed to have that in my life.You are 100% accurate and by far the my favorite!!! Thank you again :) I look forward to seeing more.
Michelle Hunter more is coming!
I just recently discovered I am an INTP. I hadn't taken the test until a few weeks ago, and I've been finding this channel very enlightening and helpful. Thank you. It's opening up new perspective I haven't seen before. It's giving me a lot to think about especially my apathy which is a real issue at times.
When you started talking about Apathy I felt so CALLED OUT because that's exactly what I am doing rn after a fight with my friend oops, like exactly I'm still in an apathy mode for four days now
I do enjoy cooking. It’s like a chemistry project that I get to eat and enjoy
As an ENTJ woman, I am in awe of INTP men.
29:22 That is the most ENTP thing I have ever heard.
INTP virtue: attentiveness
Vice: apathy
2:45 Movie recommendation: "Beautiful Mind" Russell Crowe as INTP John Nash. 4:10His hot date flame feels ignored, bc he's so attentive to the arts. Later she voices why she's upset, he repeats per verbatim everything she says. He replies that he hears everything that she says & doesn't forget it either. INTP is attentive bc he has a good experience with you & won't waste his time.
17:17 INTP are usually good cooks
20:40 always state what you want - nothing is left to interpretation.
21:10 " I respect you" is more meaningful than "I love you".
24:45 INTP advice: be true to yourself. Know what you want in a relationship. Take responsibility for your needs. Have standards for yourself & others. Have personal boundaries. Have personal goals.
26:45 How to stay attentive. If you're in a relationship with somebody that doesn't break your boundaries, reinforces your standards & needs, loves you and respects you then pay attention to that person.
I find I almost never remember what someone says when they take me out of my flowing state of mind and force me to look at them.
yeah me too
Me too
...wow...
This guy goes from zero to Guru in approx 8 minutes. Thanks for the recognition and the courage to leave my current abusive relationship! All INTPs or those who have INTP in their life MUST watch. 7/7 Kumquats!
Thank you ! the ending was amazing, you added so much depth and perspective I was looking for. I am now closer to figuring out the formula of human relationships.