SRM carriers are a Mechwarrior's final exam for situational awareness. If it gets in range of you before you spot it and kill it, that's a failing grade.
MW5 vehicles are deceptively scary. The only reason they appear non-threatening in the game is because they tend to be spread out and few in numbers. One of the campaign missions humble you with a swarm of them and can outright wipeout an entire lance of assault mechs if you don’t thin them out quick enough.
wide maps with spread out objectives in high difficulty missions will have you hating them just because of the chip damage they can consistently dish out and put you in the dilemma of "should i use up my precious gauss ammo against that stupid flipping scorpion plinking at me a kilometer away or should i just go another way"
Most planetary defenses will be tank heavy. This is for a very basic reason: Anyone can make a tank. In the universe there are less than 100 worlds that produce mechs. Mechs require fusion engines, myomyr to move the limbs, a sophisticated articulated skeleton, and advanced electronics that most worlds can't produce. Some tanks have advanced electronics and fusion engines, but there are many designs that accommodate a much simpler and easier to achieve technology base. Not every planet can create energy weapons, but producing missiles and auto cannons is something any planet with a working economy can. That said, a mech ton for ton is a better combat vehicle. Typically a mech can face 2 non-mech, non-aerospace vehicles of its same tonnage and expect to win. Mechs just absorb damage better than tanks. In part because mechs spread damage better than tanks, and in part because the rules make it to where any lucky hit can one shot a tank. This boils down to tank commanders preferring to outnumber mechs in any engagement and seeking to maneuver into positions where multiple tanks can engage a single mech each round. While the same is true of mech commanders, its more vital to tanks and other combat vehicles. Mechs make sense from the perspective of any invasion force. The invasion force is limited on how much material they can transport to the planet. Efficiency and logistics is going to be a key for any successful invasion. On defense, you want mechs because they are more durable than tanks. That said, the defense mechs are going to form a core to defend key locations. Tanks are going to make up the bulk of your defensive force. The mechs make a better rapid response unit with tanks to buy time until a friendly relief force can be deployed to route the invaders. When you want to bulk your forces, tanks are the best bang for the buck.
I totally agree, but logistics for the sheer number of tanks available becomes a problem for planetary defense as well. Maintaining in working condition, even during peacetime, a huge number of albeit simple and reliable, but nevertheless breaking systems, can eat up more resources than repairing even more complex, but small systems. Also, a large army needs more fuel, ammunition, personnel. So there's more to consider.
Vehicles are also better because they're less worth it to steal. If your planetary defense relies on battlemechs, then that's an invitation to pirates, mercs, or other hostile elements to come get free mechs. Ain't nobody gonna risk life, limb, or the humiliating look of desparation to steal a couple Scorpions
For garrison, tanks are great. Other then the hezter, poor production standards make this a questionable addition. On invasion, a dropship can only hold so much tonnage. If you only have three dropships with a limited carry capacity why fill them with less effective systems that cannot carry out the same number of roles.
@@tomfennesy9105 Eh, Quickscell's "quality" isn't really a problem for the Great Houses. They just have their own techs go over the crap after buying, fix any problems and provide missing parts from their own replacement stockpiles. And then they bill Quickscell for the effort. And Quickscell pays those bills because it's still more profitable than spending money on actual QA, and certainly more profitable than pissing off their biggest customers. Who also happen to have the ability to make an example out of their board and executives.
@@IronWarhorsesFun Better to use a Long Tom on them since the Clans can and will bring Arrow 4, albeit in a lesser capacity than they could. And Long Tom outranges Arrow IV. By over 3 times.
Would love to see a slightly more specific vehicle video covering some of the more iconic vehicles. The Manticore, Behemoth, Hetzer, and Striker all seem like standouts that could get more in depth videos or a video covering them. EDIT: Welp, got the end and he lays out several vehicles he intends to cover. Yay!
@@BigRed40TECH coudl you also maybe do a video on certain vehicles that are just as good or even better then certain battlemechs designed for the same job? also famous AFV units?
I remember when FASA changed the rules favoring mechs by making vehicles always move as a company not individually like mechs. Why did they change this rule? Because much to the horror of Battletech's creators tanks could routinely kick mechs behinds and they were far cheaper to field. It kind of questioned the logic of building giant stompy robots in the first place.
One of the most ridiculous (and fun... if you are running the vehicles) tactics possible in the old rules was making cheap, ICE-powered hovercraft that could ram mechs with enough charge damage to rip off an assault mech's leg while having enough front armor to do it repeatedly.
@@ham_the_spam4423 crit weapons are ideal. Srm, lbx, lrm, pulse weapons, Inferno stuff, flamers. In intro tech ac2 and flamers will stun lock them to death.
I’ve always been interested in combined arms and it’s also fun to imagine a scrappy militia force fighting off a raid or even invasion with mostly vehicles.
Its actually happened more than a few times in universe. Thinking of one pirate raid that ran into a pack of Schrek PPC carriers. After savaging the light lance and then the pirate leader's mech they ran for it.
@@Wastelandman7000 If you got Schreks, you aren't scrappy, you're professional. Those PPC Carriers are 3.82 Million C-bills a piece, typically half a million more expensive than most 3028 Light Mechs, save for the Wolfhound with its Full Head Ejection System at like 5.2 Million.
I'm still holding out hope for that day when we get another serious attempt at a real Combined Arms sims set in the BT universe ...living legends looked amazing but I don't think it can be revived anymore than Titanfall could :(
The Capellans came up with an idea that I love, and once the kickstarter comes out it will be something I will try to use. The augmented lance. A couple of combat vehicles that are attached and part of the structure of a typical lance of Mechs. The vehicles can help to fill out whatever the lance itself it lacking. Maybe some hover tanks attached to an assault lance for recon, or LRM carriers to fire on the targets a light lance encounters. Gotta love it.
that is literally the entire point of combined arms. cover each other's blind spots and augment each other's advantages. i would have tanks cover the flanks with the assault mechs going up the centre to make a very effective pincer threat.
Our BT group learned to hate my armord forces. Each lance of mechs had an assigned lance of armor, and whenever possible I would add in a surprise. Be it 5t Savannah masters or even off board party. I would use anything and they could not be sure until after the game began.
As a loyal servant of glorious House Liao, I like the Capellan Confederation's relationship with combat vehicles. While historically the CCAF's mech forces lacked tonnage and numbers, their conventional troops are arguably the best in the Inner Sphere, because they had to be relied on more than those of other Successor States. Their tank crews were good at dealing with mechs because they HAD to be.
Yet they stripped the fusion engines out of Von Luckners, possibly the most versatile and hardest hitting tank they once fielded. I had an RPG tanker character that left Big Mac when they took his VLs engine away and joined a mercenary unit. Still not sure what they needed that 225 for, but oh well.
When you have the most elite and experienced tank crews in the IS and put them behind monsters like the Regulator and Pixiu, you can make mechwarriors wear the brown pants
28:45 Awesome video. That's a HUGE mech far away. After watching the video i can't help but think of the mod for MW5 that resized the mechs to proper sizes.
Vehicles, battle armor and infantry working together can take apart pure Mech formations, especially with more advanced tech. That's why combined arms units are so popular as the timeline advances. Comstar/Word of Blake's Level IV divisions,, the CCAF's Augmented units, and the Fedcom RCTs are all great examples of this. On the Clan side, Blood Spirit, Hell's Horses and the Fire Mandrills are the main vehicle users. I've destroyed many a Mech/Elemental heavy Clan unit using their formations. It will be interesting to see your analysis of the 3060 Clan vehicles and their "unique" art...
An Alacorn hull down on a ridge line with clear los to its front and its flanks, is a terrifying opponent for a mech to square off against. Unless it’s 3025, in which case, it’s an infantryman with an inferno-srm launcher.
@@imasspeons First time I ran into the Alacorn, funnily enough, was not in a tabletop match. It was in a mission (well several missions) in the original Mechcommander game for PC. You’ve all likely seen a cutscene with a Hunchback going down to a Madcat? Yeah that game. Which was far superior than the second one if I’m honest. I still would play it if I could and I kinda wish the Battletech /Mechwarrior 5 pc games would use it as a source for mission ideas should there ever be an expansion which lets you participate in the SLDF campaign on Port Arthur.
A 45 ton tracked tank with an AC/10 w/ 2 tons of ammo, 2 machineguns with a 1/2 ton of ammo, 7 tons of armor, and an ICE for a 4/6 movement profile costs 551 BV and just over 700,000 C-bills. One could theoretically field two companies of these for the same cost as a single mech lance. Add in a few LRM carriers and VTOL spotters, plus infantry support, and you've got a very tough fighting force!
@@IronWarhorsesFun Eh, modern tank cannons are (if you don't use the obsolete Rifled Cannon weapons family) more in the AC/5 range. For example the Marauder-3Rs AC/5 is a 120mm firing three-round bursts before a lengthy reload.
@@IronWarhorsesFun the only difference is that in tanks, the mass of armor accounts for 52 ... 58% of the total mass of the vehicle. So for a tank weighing 45 tons, the armor will have a mass of about 24.75 tons. In Battletech the rules are tilted in favor of mechs to make them viable and important as their are in the setting.
@@ironboy3245 Oh yeah... PC Battletech there's nothing like being unable to get a lock on something only to have it round the corner, be an SRM carrier and missile bukkake onto a mech. It's not the damage that's painful (Although it is), it's the KD chance.
Great video! Vehicles have such a great economy of scale as support to the frontline behemoths of Battlemechs. Vehicles are a low-cost, easy to maintain solution to force projection. Quantity has a quality all its own.
Vehicles win in one crucial aspect; cost efficiency. For the price of an Atlas you can get four Demolishers (or close to it). That's four pairs of AC20's looking to atomize anything that is unfortunate enough to be within range. You can get three Schrek PPC Carriers; the firepower of an Awesome for a fraction of the price. Economically, Battlemechs are almost a liability, if not for their enhanced cognition systems through the pilot and robust weapon saturation. They are almost "battleships" of land. It makes perfect sense, to me, why the Great Houses rely on so much mercenary or PMC work; they're offloading the cost of battlemech liabilities onto some rando looking to shoot something for his bread and butter. I wouldn't even be surprised if Great Houses kept certain industrial lines going simply as a means of fueling a constantly hungry military industrial complex that always pays out. Creates a serious amount of jobs, work, sales, etc; and all you have to do is make the parts and services. It wouldn't surprise me if most Great Houses tallied more of their military strength in infantry, spacecraft, and vehicles while considering the battlemechs as a form of deterrent or auxiliary form of force multiplier, rather than the meat and potatoes of a regiment. After all, having a decked-out Atlas II is awesome; having a decked-out Atlas II explode is a "financial loss" that in the economics of war adds up very...very fast. Better to have some dude come in with his decked-out Atlas II, take a beating from the enemy, then pay him some couple million C-Bills for his and his lance mate's time. Let them sort out the finances and repair costs, equipment losses, and the like later. It, in my honest opinion, creates an idea that there is a sort of "pyramid" of numbers that would be theoretical to warfare operations in the lore. Battlemechs would sit close to the top, but going down the pyramid you would have the bulk of a military supporting it. That Awesome becomes even more Awesome when you have a bunch of infantry launching mortars and storming buildings with aircraft aiming for any weakness in enemy armor per say. Economically speaking... you can kind of see this effect if you field Two Marauders, two LRM20 Urbanmechs, and four LRM Carriers. Y'know...for when you just absolutely MUST bury something under missiles.
Can confirm that vehicles are a threat. In BTA 3062 my 3 LRM carriers are only outmatched in sheer firepower by heavy clan battlemechs and my assault mechs. They often get more kills than the light and medium mechs combined
Battletech's approach to Combined Arms warfare was something I always appreciated. Many universes almost always depict the mech as the pinnacle of military ingenuity (ie: Gundam's Mobile Suits), but in a universe like Battletech where the giant stompy robot dominates the battlefield, the humble combat vehicle still thrives. Even if they are commonly underestimated and overlooked, its in that underestimation do they really shine, be it in ambushes or supporting roles. That's why I keep a few tanks and vehicles in my company, you know, just in case.
Mechs make sense in the Battletech fiction... sadly in our reality they still would never make sense. A future equivalent of Elementals (power armor and jet packs) is likely to be as close to mech as we get.
We can fight using these mechs, or we can go back to nuking each other from orbit. That's pretty much the justification for the mechs. The Ares Convention made war legal and regulated. with that, the companies saw a way of making huge profits from selling arms to the govt, one of those arms are battlemechs.
I cannot count, how many times I have underestimated ground vehicles in Hairbrained Battletech game and paid price in both meat and metal. In penultimate mission of the main campaign, trio of allied Shrek PPC carriers took 1/3 of OpForce, all heavy mechs. The scariest thing about them it's they are easy to ignore. Except for the Inferno carriers. I would prioritize shooting this hell barbeques over even a rampaging Banshee!
I was a tank crewmember for the M60A3, the M1 and the M1A1 Abrams. I became a tanker cause it was the closest thing I could bet to being a mech pilot back in the 80s and 90s. 😁 It has always boggled my mind that the 70 ton full battle rattle of an M1A1 or technological equivalent from the Battletech era does not play a bigger factor in the games and lore than it does already. That much concentrated armor, speed and situational awareness of the larger crew (using same sensor tech as mechs) of the tank should have more impact than it does. Hell the Abrams from today with its 120mm should easily be able to one shot most light mechs and some mediums through and through with a depleted uranium SABOT. Add in the weight distribution of the tank tonnage distributed along the track compared to all the weight stacked on a mechs two feet would make an operational difference I don't see ever addressed. Look at all the historical accounts of heavy elements getting bogged down while lighter and cheaper less trained units won decisive victories over their betters. But lets face it, Mechs are way cooler! Just adding my thoughts to the discussion. Good vid with a great topic!
I feel that comes from two places, while Battletech as a setting comes close to a lot of things in terms of realism, advanced munitions aren't really something you see a lot, in lore reasons it ~could~ be speculated that with the new armors mechs and vehicles have those older rounds don't penetrate like they should, but the more likely answer is it is still a product, and a game designer would be a little silly to put non-mechs ahead of mechs in terms of effectiveness because then it isn't Battletech anymore, it's just a wargame.
Part of the issue for Tanks is the height difference makes it considerably easier for a mech to punch a tank in its top armor, which the top armor and bottom armor is where the armor is thinnest and easiest to penetrate. This is why there are anti-tank missiles designed to fly over the tank and descend upon the tank, which is a default attack method of LRMs in the battletech setting. A tank could ambush if they remain undetected, but once they get spotted a few LRMs can break all but the toughest of tanks pretty easily. Reinforcing the top armor would be highly important in the battletech setting, but that is extra tonnage used up that could have been in weapons for punching down tanks. Since the houses got uber focused on the shiny new toy the tank got left behind in its weaknesses. Same reason why Tanks get chewed through so badly in Gundam series, they basically only ever get hit in the weak top armor or get hit by weapons that all but invalidate armor.
@@TankHunter678 Because my job was an Armor Crewman for years my take is much different than yours, but I do understand what you are saying. It makes sense from a game point of view, but there are some real world variables you may be missing, and that is all I am addressing with on my posts. I am a tank nerd and like discussing this stuff. I do appreciate your input and you make many valid points. 👍 There have been so many advances in the realm of APSs both in hardkill and softkill systems available today and Mechs can obviously mount the AMS in BT universe. You could expect that equipment to be available to tanks. Even present day tech like the Trophy on the M1A2 SEPv3 or the Arena combined with the Shtora-1 for some of the Russian T variant tanks can mitigate top attack ATGM, SACLOS and some direct fire munitions. Yes there are counter measures and tactics that can used against the APSs, but that is a whole other topic. While the Russian APSs are of questionable value (I have seen evidence of success in Ukraine but they performed poorly in Syria) they don't compare to the Trophy. The Trophy has an almost perfect IRL kill rate in the Gaza strip against ATGMs. Admittedly the performance against direct fire munitions like long rod penetrators is not near as reliable, the tech will continue to mature. Your explanation about armor is missing a few variables as well. A 70 ton tank would have a higher density of armor in a smaller, denser package than a mech when you compare size, profile and weight while packing the same penetrative weaponry like the Mechs. Big mech is also bigger target with a thinner dispersion of armor per square foot than a tank. There are also plenty of instances in real world of ERA being mounted on top of turrets and other thin areas that work as well. Granted it will only soak up so much. ERA is pretty light compared to RHA or most composites, although composites are getting much lighter. Mechs use advanced composite armors anyway, (Similar but obviously more advanced than the Abrams and Challenger) and I would imagine a tank ton for ton could pack more in its small size than a Mech in the BT realm. Don't forget other current tech that would likely be even better in the more advanced realm of BT like laser dispersing aerosols, ECW, EMP, laser based point defense systems, dazzlers and other tech I am not privy too. In still my belief that the physics and economics of actual combat would favor tanks in most (not all) instances warfare. But that is just my take. There is much more I could add to this discussion but I have babbled on long enough. 😄As others have stated, the game is primarily about Mechs and lore that surrounds them. I love cruising around in my Stompy Stomps in Mechwarrior 5, and who can resist the fun of the table top version of Battletech or the lore of the RPG version? I know I can't! 🤠
Modern-day or slightly better tank cannons are in the game under primitive tech. They're next to completely worthless against anything with military-grade BAR 10 armor (so basically the Mackie and everything that comes after in terms of military frontline units), and just completely outperformed by the basic autocannon family in every way except for being dirt cheap and so easy to make you could do it in some basic machine shop in the deep Periphery. The only actual unit using one of these in the setting is a Periphery-built toy called the Arbiter: It's literally a civilian industrial Mech that's extensively dolled up with low-quality support vehicle-grade commercial armor plate and fitted with the heaviest of those guns, all to make it look like a big heavy Battlemech. The whole purpose of it is to shoo away pirates without a fight, just by looking scary enough to make them decide it's not worth the risk. And if that fails it's got a problem, because even a Bug Mech decisively outmatches that thing.
I would like to point out 'modern' tanks have thin top armour because they are designed before top attack missiles were invented and in an age where air defenses trumped contmeporary ground attack aircraft. Its unlikely that tanks won't improve their top armour if weapons that can't be delt with by aps that attack the top armour become common. So if mechs can infact target tanks top armour reliably then tanks would likely have thick top armour. Tanks are a more volume efficient design and thus for the same weight should have better armour in all directions.
Chevalier is my favorite tank in MechWarrior Living Legends, I play it almost everyday and it's normally my starting asset with a light gauss and mrm10 hidden with a guardian ecm. I also like the Hephaestus with the 2 heavy mediums and dual srm 4 "Non-canon srm variant in the game... 2 srm4 in one hardpoint" and a ecm.
I remember one time during a MW5 infiltration mission I was in a Jenner and my pal was in a urban mech we had approached a group of six tanks mostly the manticore with some demolishers, at the time we were just worried about being able to kill them fast enough for the mission. So after debating a bit I go charging in using the speed and firepower of my Jenner to scythe death amongst the enemy, stepping on those I could crush and blasting the ones I couldn’t . After a grueling chaotic minute of slaughter my mind filled with the rush the dust settled and I was not surprised to see that I had hardly taken any damage. But then to my horror I saw what had happened to my lance mate. I had been to filled with battle lust my attention entirely on the destruction of those inferior tanks that I hadn’t heard the cries of panic and pain from my brother in steel, for he had been completely disarmed, his UAC5 and Large laser destroyed only a small laser keeping him in the fight, it was then I realized that if the tanks had aimed for me in stead of him, that all that would be left of me was a slag of warm steel
It's a wonderful thing. Mech disrespects vehicle, loses all of the armor on a face. Mech realizes it's serious time, focuses every weapon it has on vehicle, vehicle still has 30 points of front armor left. Mech proceeds to go kaboom
Very appropriate to have the MW4 opening cutscene play as background music. As a AFV player in our BT games, everything you said is very true. That said, as I also filled in as Medivac for the lance whereas a mech could not do that. I also had quite the luck in injuring mech pilots...
I just looked up the Saladin, and I'm shocked the Clans turned it into a men and munitions mover. Sure, Clan war machines are ammo hungry, fast, and powerful, but with the clan's love of speed and firepower, it feels like a natural vehicle to adopt. Also, I saw on the Sarna news comments that there may apparently be a clanner SRM carrier with hardened armor now.
Another banger, BR40K. I love learning more about the BT universe, and your channel along with Critical Rocket, Grim Dark Narrator, and BPL are what really provides the flavor and a “sense of depth and urgency” when combined with the numerous, soulless Sarna dives. Don’t get me wrong, Sarna is GREAT, but it often lacks critical details and feeling that doesn’t really pull me in. Though I’ve just finally got around to reading some of the BT novels, and man, while I’m glad I am finally doing it, as my own writing benefits from seeing BT from a more “proper” lore perspective... I just want to read about Katrina Steiner and see all of her escapades. LOL So your lore videos on Mechs and the like are straight and to the point, and if they’re not “quick” then they’re entirely relevant and still a joy even in the long form videos. No matter what, when I see a video from BR40K I know that it’s going to be a half hour well spent. LOL
@@BigRed40TECH Oh, I have no doubt you don’t have all of the no BS technical read outs to get the hard info from, I’d have them myself but I just don’t play tabletop so I can’t really justify the expense of purchasing them all for writing. I’d love to find them all if I could, but looking for pirated copies just wouldn’t sit well with me, so instead I just have to use the free Sarna resources. Cheers!
Was hoping to see just a small mention of WiGEs, which are so rare they can't be eaten at all (pardon the pun), but nevertheless, I love the mention of a class of unit in BTech that I seriously love employing, especially in campaigns. Seriously appreciate this, and great vid as usual! EDIT: OH WAIT..... there're going to be MORE vids about vehicles?!!! OMG EXCELLENT! Do see if you're willing to cover a few other units like the Demolisher tank, Yellow Jacket VTOL or a small mention of WiGEs as well. Looking forward to the upcoming vehicle vids!
They advantage that the Mech has is mobility. Not just jump jets, but you can drop mechs easier than you drop tanks. A Leopard can dart in nape of the Earth, viff to drop mechs, and be gone in seconds, you can't do that with tanks. And you can't drop tanks from near orbit. But for garrisons, the tank is cheaper and easier.
Pretty sure you could drop tanks from orbit if you had the tech to drop mechs from orbit. Also mobility would only be better in certain terrains. On paved roads or mild off-road wheels are king. I bet that if you have jets that can lift a mech, those same jets can also lift a tank. Frankly, the only advantage that a mech would have over a tank is that is it 100x cooler, and rule of cool wins over any other, always.
I've **always** played my 'mechs' as _super mobile_ Artillery. That should really be their whole in-universe justification IMO... they're just naturally way more "stabilized" than a wheeled vehicle so why not run with it? (literally)
One of the "additional not mentioned" vehicles that I think needs to be covered has to be the Partisan. What happened to create the Partisan? Somebody forgot a zero on the weapons ordering form. Instead of getting AC-20's they got AC-2s. They made it work nonetheless. 5AC2's is nothing to sneeze at, and that damage adds up quick.
Thanks for covering the under appreciated fighters of the setting! Not just Infantry, but tanks and every shade in-between. And quoting my old instructor, Deadeye. I missed that angry old man.
Any setting that uses such battlemechs is going to need some liberties taken on the realism in battle, on logistics, and just on the concept and its ability to be executed. Anyone who has tried to design a mech that works in the real world always ends up concluding that with a tank once revisions are done, and even for power armour the limits for combat potential seem to be on mechanical third arms usable only to transport equipment that's typically too large for one man to carry around in combat despite being light enough to do so. It's one of those things we just accept because between a realistic story about the nature of combat in the far future, or an interesting one with mechs, we accept that the latter has limits preventing it from overlapping with the former. It's not about their use being realistic, it's about it being consisting within the logic of its setting and treated with the seriousness the setting calls for.
MW5 vehicles are my first targets in modded AND unmodded MW5, the moment I started realizing how deadly they were my repair bills fell by orders of magnitude, those little guys may only take a few shots to put down but if ignored will shear your mechs apart laughing.
As soon as you do campaigns in the board game you start to hate vehicles unless you have some yourself, then you love them. I remember back in 92 or 93 we played a massive game on a huge board (6x4 maps) and in the last few days of play, there were no mechs left, only vehicles and a few platoons of infantry. That was such a fun campaign/game. PS.: I suggest adding the Bulldog tank to your list. It is after all one of if not the most iconic Davion-tank of the '28 era.
Another great overview :-) vehicles can be deadly if underestimated I love mixing some into a company... to gain a cheap big hit that might turn the fight if ignored :-)
The Demolisher will always be the uncrowned master of the battlefield. It can take out any BattleMech with one volley from its head clipping twin 185mm AC20 Autocannon's. None are safe.
I think that following this video, you should probably take a peek at protomechs... or the result of the clans DESPISING vehicles out of garrison duty, but being still in need of cheaper combat vehicles than full on mechs... and one of the only unit types to be exclusing to a faction (in that case the clans) due to how unique the requirements for the pilot are to be able to operate such a machine.
@@BigRed40TECH i know they are a small topic... But i think they are worth covering in a video of the same type as this one (looking at the unit class, think indeed no individual proto is really worth its own video)
@@thorveim1174 I strongly dislike Protomechs. Which is why I won't be covering them. They don't interest me, which makes making a video about them really... almost impossible.
@@BigRed40TECH I agree. They're in a terrible no-man's land between light mechs and infantry. It's a solution looking for a problem. Plus they all look hideously stupid.
playing trough hbs battletech rn and i was wondering: how is that the 60t mech have 4x structure, armor and weapons of 60t tank, where all the mass goes to? thanks for the education provided.
I assume that ICEs don't necessarily have to be powered by gasoline, but could be a wide variety of anything that just provides an internal combustion (biofuels, hydrogen cells, etc.)
ICEs still are powered by diesel, gasoline & can run on anything similar to petroleum harvested from foreign planets as engine fuels in the distant future There are also vehicles in Battletech run on fuel cells
Looking at how some big name groups are adopting heavier combined arms tactics, like the 21st Centauri Lancers, and with the addition of high quality plastic vehicles, I hope to see much more love focused on the Treadnoughts of Battletech
Some of those better designed, higher tech level tanks can damned near match mechs of their tonnage in combat. Never underestimate the old fashioned box on treads
while its sad that VTOLs are considered so weak its still awesome to hear about how they and tracked armor can still perform well. not only that but are also necessary for armies to function. really looking forward to your upcoming vehicle focused videos. also really looking forward to the day that more fixed-wing aerospace craft get a chance at the spotlight. read about the Xerxes the other day, thing sounds horrifying.
They're weak in that they tend to comically evaporate when hit by serious firepower. The rotor is always a weakpoint you can't really get rid off, and they can't carry all that much armor either given their weight limitations. Of course, hitting them in the first place is the hard part, given how fast they are. Armaments-wise, they tend to compare decently to Mech's in their tonnage range, too. They mostly tend to pack short-ranged weapons because long-range stuff tends to be too heavy to allow them to mount much firepower. And then there's the Yellow Jacket. The Yellow Jacket is an absolute asshole design. It's probably the slowest combat VTOL in widespread production. Which leaves it with 17 tons of space for armament on a 30-ton VTOL. So what did the nutters who designed it spend that on? *A goddamn Gauss Rifle* and two tons of ammo.
So glad my intro to Battletech was by accident Second Edition Citytech and Aerotech. Not saying it gives me some kind of superior view of things. But for sure a more flexible, and more detailed view of things. Getting to the ground is just the end of the beginning.
Hey man, i love mw5 mercenaries. Play the crap outta that game without mods. But even i know vehicles are more than a speedbump for mechs. One harasser is funny. Two are annoying and three are a problem. Combine those with missle carriers, vtols and those DAMN PARTISAN HEAVY TANKS and you've got a bigger threat than mechs on your scopes. They can duck behind hills, scurry through cities and just be an overall pain in the ass to deal with. And they're bloody EVERYWHERE. My lancemates fight the enemy mechs while i kill their vehicle support, because I've learned over my like 60k day career that its not the tall stompy robots that are your biggest problem. You can see those, you know where they are. Its the vehicle regiment hiding behind every nook and cranny ready to knife your ankles or drop missle salvos on your head that's gonna spell your doom. Id rather round the corner of a building to an atlas any day than two srm 40 carriers. I'll live longer against the atlas. We don't all think like solaris arena mechjocks XD
Hmm, I can't find the exact breakdown readily now, but I wonder if you're familiar enough with Crescent Hawk's Revenge to have an opinion for Operation Liberty: 3 lighter lances of vehicles or 2 heavier to pull off the rescue?
Awesome video on the vehicles. Really we focus on Battlemechs but I personally think most mech kills can be attributed to either aircraft or ground vehicles may not think it but vehicles tend to be more numerous then mechs.
Hello Red. A well presented video about the humble forces of the non-Mech battle machines. Even back in the late 80s, I lamented the lack of tanks and other vehicles in most of the games played by my fellow players. As I look back to the mid-90s and later, I remember more and more vehicles being used by players who had seen their worth in battle by seeing their Mechs in shreds, if they survived at all, post battle. I have always been a proponent of 'combined arms' warfare. Even though tanks suffer from some issues as to terrain, they are less costly than your average Mech, and used wisely, can tilt a battle to favor your own forces. I cannot even say how many times that I have heard other players bemoan my use of things like LRM carriers to 'lay down the hurt' on the enemy. Or, how often that enemy charges forwards, only to find mostly depleted tanks moving back from their firing positions, just before being pounced upon by untouched Mech forces. The Mech may be the new 'king' of the battlefield, but the humble tank is still 'worth its metal' in almost any battle.
Also if I may. Maybe a two for one video that goes over the Savannah Master and Behemoth tank. Fastest and lightest hovercraft, and the less of a tank, and more a angry semi mobile gun bunker.
While that sounds great, it's just a time thing. I can't commit to covering too many vehicles atm, when I have a huge number of other things that I've promised to do. I try to keep my commitments limited in what I'm going to cover to not overpromise.
@@BigRed40TECH Totally understand. This universe just has so much cool stuff. Trying to cover everything would be like going to every part of Disney in Florida in a week or something. Doable I guess, but would not be fun though.
Vehicles are a powerful tool for every commander, and combined arms tactics are always superior to one-sided ones. (Unless you are Clan Hell's Horses, ...poor ponies)
I love that while editing this...BigRed was also watching Tex abuse vehicles to cheese out some advanced BattleTech rounds that probably should have bankrupted him. i
For what it is worth, vehicle crew (tank/afv/apc/ifv to truck drivers etc) are A LOT easier to train than a Mechwarrior. A Mechwarrior is akin to a modern day fighter pilot, long time to train and even require certain physical aspects. Inner ear damage or minor neural conditions can make it impossible for the person to become a mechwarrior. Never mind that most mechs are single piloted, so the work load (checking targets, communication, driving the mech etc) is all dependent on one Mechwarrior. By contrast vehicle crews don't suffer from requirements like that and work load is split. Finding 4 average guys is miles easier than 1 great guy that tick the boxes. The only downside of vehicles is that the damn critical hits tables are so slanted against them and they pop like balloons once something gets through the armor. Though granted critical hits aside, they have more armor per facing than most mechs can dream off (20 tons of armor over 5 facings is vastly better than 11 facings mechs have to cover).
I've crippled reliable laser boats and hot running mechs with the likes of Pegasus hovercraft squadrons loaded up with SRMs and inferno ammo. And wow betide those who ignore the humble LRM carrier.
I remember dumping a mostly VTOL-force in Roguetech.....pretty much evades most attacks against it, until you run into the odd Arrow IV AA or Antiair missiles. On the plus side, the VTOLs trounce everything else, ton for ton. Since Roguetech's largest limiting factor is the 800 ton drop limit very late game, VTOLs and BA to max out your drops are almost always a must. Drop in a resupply vehicle too, and the VTOLs can keep shooting. For the tanks, they tend to be way cheaper than mechs. If not for the game mechanics of vehicle destruction on destroying any section, unlike the mechs having damage transfer from arm to torso to center, tanks have comparable armour to mechs. Also, who doesnt like a triple gauss Alacorn with a targeting computer? Or any of the weapons carriers like the Inferno or SRM carrier? Or the best part: Being able to shoot artillery without rolling to fall over or bracing. Vehicles fill in a very strong support role in Btech, and I love them.
Stand at the receiving end of a heavy SRM Carrier while it surprises your Mech in a City or a Mountain Site can easy destroy any Battlemech or at least damage it so heavy that you will fall back IF you get a chance for that Learned that the Hard way in MegaMek against a Friend of mine.
same, except i learned it through Battletech game. my Centurion had the SRM carrier dead to rights, he missed, and it is the carrier's turn next. then i sat and watched by Cent slowly disintegrate in a kamehameha of 40 srm missiles. i now give them a wide berth and prioritized for absolute destruction before i do anything else.
It's a sad state that you had to use war thunder gameplay as opposed to battle tech or mechwarrior gameplay considering the universe advertises itself as a "combined arms" game. I remember seeing the fan game mechwarrior living legends letting you play any type of tank or flying vehicle, I hope something like that will appear in the future.
Mechwarrior's never really been described as playing Combined Arms itself outside of just shooting tanks. I mean. The only time you play a vehicle in the entire MW franchise I think is in MW2 Mercenaries during the Clan Invasion... One mission in Mechassault too, if you want to count that one.
@@BigRed40TECH there are plenty of modern helcopters that run off of the old piston engine... though that does make me wonder what sort of engine industrial mechs are using...
What appropriate timing, after watching the Tank Museum video about "Nobody wants tanks, unless they want to win" with regard to a current real world conflict where about a year ago where the less informed claimed the "tank was dead" (for the umpteenth time since the end of the second world war). Part of my love/hate relationship with Battletech has been how, artificial, the rules seem to deal with non-mech units. As a teen in the 90's, I was all about the giant stompy robots and ate it up like candy. In adult life, I served with armored units and learned all the nasty tricks such vehicles are capable of and realized a 7 meter (21') walking target would be easy prey to 'lesser' combat vehicles leading me to kind of back off from Battletech (that, and well, FASA going out of business at the exact same time and nobody playing Battletech anymore at the FLGS). I still enjoyed Mechwarrior 2, and Heavy Gear 2, as computer games though. Now days, with the much more refined battlevalues and C-Bill costs to even out games, I'll pull out a Patton and LRM Carrier to augment my mech forces, and since my sons are still learning and we stick to medium and light mechs... They have come understand in spite of the plot armor mechs have, they are indeed vulnerable to such vehicles who fire the same weapons the mechs have, after all, an AC10 still hits for 10 points with the same chance for criticals on a tank as it does from an Enforcer; and you can't stomp and LRM carrier if are too damaged from taking hits trying to get close enough to engage it.
So being with FASA and battletech from the beginning, I wonder if anyone else had this thought, have anyone checked out the renegade legion ❓ this was a FASA game that took place in the far future, I believe the long game with it was the future of battletech, many similarities, in game mechanics, and how things worked like the ftl travel, one of the states being called the “federated commonwealth “ and history of their timelines. They had what was called a grav-tank, very powerful vehicles, with a great many capabilities, the out come of advanced technology vehicles.
SRM carriers are a Mechwarrior's final exam for situational awareness. If it gets in range of you before you spot it and kill it, that's a failing grade.
Then what's a traditional role Demolisher?
@@bthsr7113 teaching a god what it feels like to be humbled
That sounds like Battletech's version of a Toyota Hi-lux with an ATGM operated by literal Chads
Srm carriers are newbie slayers
@@chazzwozzioSRM60 carrier says.... "Hello"
Don't forget the vehicle that has single handed killed or saved your field units more than any other;
The food truck!
You mean field kitchens & F&B vending machines
And yeah, an army marches with their stomachs
the ammo truck. you can even use it to ALUAH ACKBAR.
@@IronWarhorsesFun or the fuel truck
WW2 USN evem had Ice cream ships/barges
Back in the Role Play days, I had an Honest-To-Tukkayid Jingle Truck.
MW5 vehicles are deceptively scary. The only reason they appear non-threatening in the game is because they tend to be spread out and few in numbers. One of the campaign missions humble you with a swarm of them and can outright wipeout an entire lance of assault mechs if you don’t thin them out quick enough.
Last words of many a mechwarrior: "Oh f*k its a Demolishe.........."
Or SRM Carr---
even in the Clix game vehicles were no joke one wrong move one bad roll and you were done
Quantity is a quality of its own
wide maps with spread out objectives in high difficulty missions will have you hating them just because of the chip damage they can consistently dish out and put you in the dilemma of "should i use up my precious gauss ammo against that stupid flipping scorpion plinking at me a kilometer away or should i just go another way"
We all know the ultimate vehicle in the deep Periphery is Billy's Toyota Hilux with four RL10s.
The downside of the Deep Periphery Toyota Flatbed Rotary Gauss Rifle is that the truck nuts are an essential component that cannot be removed
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 WAAAAAAAGGHHHHHH!!!! the Red Wartruckers.
Most planetary defenses will be tank heavy. This is for a very basic reason: Anyone can make a tank. In the universe there are less than 100 worlds that produce mechs. Mechs require fusion engines, myomyr to move the limbs, a sophisticated articulated skeleton, and advanced electronics that most worlds can't produce. Some tanks have advanced electronics and fusion engines, but there are many designs that accommodate a much simpler and easier to achieve technology base. Not every planet can create energy weapons, but producing missiles and auto cannons is something any planet with a working economy can.
That said, a mech ton for ton is a better combat vehicle. Typically a mech can face 2 non-mech, non-aerospace vehicles of its same tonnage and expect to win. Mechs just absorb damage better than tanks. In part because mechs spread damage better than tanks, and in part because the rules make it to where any lucky hit can one shot a tank. This boils down to tank commanders preferring to outnumber mechs in any engagement and seeking to maneuver into positions where multiple tanks can engage a single mech each round. While the same is true of mech commanders, its more vital to tanks and other combat vehicles.
Mechs make sense from the perspective of any invasion force. The invasion force is limited on how much material they can transport to the planet. Efficiency and logistics is going to be a key for any successful invasion. On defense, you want mechs because they are more durable than tanks. That said, the defense mechs are going to form a core to defend key locations. Tanks are going to make up the bulk of your defensive force. The mechs make a better rapid response unit with tanks to buy time until a friendly relief force can be deployed to route the invaders. When you want to bulk your forces, tanks are the best bang for the buck.
I totally agree, but logistics for the sheer number of tanks available becomes a problem for planetary defense as well. Maintaining in working condition, even during peacetime, a huge number of albeit simple and reliable, but nevertheless breaking systems, can eat up more resources than repairing even more complex, but small systems. Also, a large army needs more fuel, ammunition, personnel. So there's more to consider.
Vehicles are also better because they're less worth it to steal.
If your planetary defense relies on battlemechs, then that's an invitation to pirates, mercs, or other hostile elements to come get free mechs.
Ain't nobody gonna risk life, limb, or the humiliating look of desparation to steal a couple Scorpions
For garrison, tanks are great. Other then the hezter, poor production standards make this a questionable addition. On invasion, a dropship can only hold so much tonnage. If you only have three dropships with a limited carry capacity why fill them with less effective systems that cannot carry out the same number of roles.
well not only that but tanks are simply easier to conceal. just dig a ditch anywhere you can't fund a good rock or building to hide behind.
@@tomfennesy9105 Eh, Quickscell's "quality" isn't really a problem for the Great Houses. They just have their own techs go over the crap after buying, fix any problems and provide missing parts from their own replacement stockpiles. And then they bill Quickscell for the effort.
And Quickscell pays those bills because it's still more profitable than spending money on actual QA, and certainly more profitable than pissing off their biggest customers. Who also happen to have the ability to make an example out of their board and executives.
Never let a Demolisher get behind you. Your rear armor will evaporate, and your mech will crumple like a tin can.
A shot up Tin Can on the Firing Range.
Combined arms is amazing. nothing says "Hi clanner!" like several Arrow IV carriers bombarding their position
the first sound the clanners heard on tukkayad was: "our long tom would like to know your location."
@@IronWarhorsesFun Better to use a Long Tom on them since the Clans can and will bring Arrow 4, albeit in a lesser capacity than they could. And Long Tom outranges Arrow IV. By over 3 times.
@@bthsr7113 Isn't the range of the Long Tom measured in literal maps? Yikes
@@elgeniomaestroA lot of map sheets,I think up to 36 mapsheets give or take a few sheets.
Would love to see a slightly more specific vehicle video covering some of the more iconic vehicles. The Manticore, Behemoth, Hetzer, and Striker all seem like standouts that could get more in depth videos or a video covering them. EDIT: Welp, got the end and he lays out several vehicles he intends to cover. Yay!
I was about to say before the edit "uhhhhhhh" lol
@@BigRed40TECH
Always talk about the LTV-4 which was the answer to the proliferation of the mackie by the Terran Hegemony.
@@BigRed40TECH coudl you also maybe do a video on certain vehicles that are just as good or even better then certain battlemechs designed for the same job?
also famous AFV units?
@@IronWarhorsesFun Not anytime soon. It's a lot of work and there is an enormous amount of work on my plate atm.
Don't forget the Saladin, Saracen, and Scimitar hover tanks. They make a deadly trio.
I remember when FASA changed the rules favoring mechs by making vehicles always move as a company not individually like mechs. Why did they change this rule? Because much to the horror of Battletech's creators tanks could routinely kick mechs behinds and they were far cheaper to field.
It kind of questioned the logic of building giant stompy robots in the first place.
Dident help that alot people never brought weapons to deal with tanks and no experience fighting them.
One of the most ridiculous (and fun... if you are running the vehicles) tactics possible in the old rules was making cheap, ICE-powered hovercraft that could ram mechs with enough charge damage to rip off an assault mech's leg while having enough front armor to do it repeatedly.
@@ero9841 what's the difference between anti mech and anti tank weapons?
When I first met BT in ‘92 I noted many things about how vehicles were largely ignored.
@@ham_the_spam4423 crit weapons are ideal. Srm, lbx, lrm, pulse weapons, Inferno stuff, flamers. In intro tech ac2 and flamers will stun lock them to death.
I’ve always been interested in combined arms and it’s also fun to imagine a scrappy militia force fighting off a raid or even invasion with mostly vehicles.
Its actually happened more than a few times in universe. Thinking of one pirate raid that ran into a pack of Schrek PPC carriers. After savaging the light lance and then the pirate leader's mech they ran for it.
@@Wastelandman7000 that’s awesome!
@@Wastelandman7000 If you got Schreks, you aren't scrappy, you're professional. Those PPC Carriers are 3.82 Million C-bills a piece, typically half a million more expensive than most 3028 Light Mechs, save for the Wolfhound with its Full Head Ejection System at like 5.2 Million.
I'm still holding out hope for that day when we get another serious attempt at a real Combined Arms sims set in the BT universe ...living legends looked amazing but I don't think it can be revived anymore than Titanfall could :(
@@KageRyuu6
This.
Scrappy is Scorpions
The Capellans came up with an idea that I love, and once the kickstarter comes out it will be something I will try to use. The augmented lance. A couple of combat vehicles that are attached and part of the structure of a typical lance of Mechs. The vehicles can help to fill out whatever the lance itself it lacking. Maybe some hover tanks attached to an assault lance for recon, or LRM carriers to fire on the targets a light lance encounters. Gotta love it.
that is literally the entire point of combined arms. cover each other's blind spots and augment each other's advantages. i would have tanks cover the flanks with the assault mechs going up the centre to make a very effective pincer threat.
@@IronWarhorsesFun Exactly, except the people in Battletech forgot that.
Our BT group learned to hate my armord forces.
Each lance of mechs had an assigned lance of armor, and whenever possible I would add in a surprise.
Be it 5t Savannah masters or even off board party. I would use anything and they could not be sure until after the game began.
As a loyal servant of glorious House Liao, I like the Capellan Confederation's relationship with combat vehicles. While historically the CCAF's mech forces lacked tonnage and numbers, their conventional troops are arguably the best in the Inner Sphere, because they had to be relied on more than those of other Successor States. Their tank crews were good at dealing with mechs because they HAD to be.
Yet they stripped the fusion engines out of Von Luckners, possibly the most versatile and hardest hitting tank they once fielded. I had an RPG tanker character that left Big Mac when they took his VLs engine away and joined a mercenary unit. Still not sure what they needed that 225 for, but oh well.
Po is love my friend
Po is life.
i just have images of a bunch of t-72 somewhere still causing trouble after hundreds of years after being deemed "obsolete" again.
When you have the most elite and experienced tank crews in the IS and put them behind monsters like the Regulator and Pixiu, you can make mechwarriors wear the brown pants
Your troops are tenacious and keep up well even with us heavy-pounders. I prefer to have Liao as employers, not OpForce.
28:45 Awesome video. That's a HUGE mech far away. After watching the video i can't help but think of the mod for MW5 that resized the mechs to proper sizes.
Vehicles, battle armor and infantry working together can take apart pure Mech formations, especially with more advanced tech. That's why combined arms units are so popular as the timeline advances. Comstar/Word of Blake's Level IV divisions,, the CCAF's Augmented units, and the Fedcom RCTs are all great examples of this.
On the Clan side, Blood Spirit, Hell's Horses and the Fire Mandrills are the main vehicle users. I've destroyed many a Mech/Elemental heavy Clan unit using their formations. It will be interesting to see your analysis of the 3060 Clan vehicles and their "unique" art...
An Alacorn hull down on a ridge line with clear los to its front and its flanks, is a terrifying opponent for a mech to square off against. Unless it’s 3025, in which case, it’s an infantryman with an inferno-srm launcher.
Nobody argues with three (!) Gauss rifles.
@@imasspeons First time I ran into the Alacorn, funnily enough, was not in a tabletop match. It was in a mission (well several missions) in the original Mechcommander game for PC. You’ve all likely seen a cutscene with a Hunchback going down to a Madcat? Yeah that game. Which was far superior than the second one if I’m honest. I still would play it if I could and I kinda wish the Battletech /Mechwarrior 5 pc games would use it as a source for mission ideas should there ever be an expansion which lets you participate in the SLDF campaign on Port Arthur.
A 45 ton tracked tank with an AC/10 w/ 2 tons of ammo, 2 machineguns with a 1/2 ton of ammo, 7 tons of armor, and an ICE for a 4/6 movement profile costs 551 BV and just over 700,000 C-bills. One could theoretically field two companies of these for the same cost as a single mech lance. Add in a few LRM carriers and VTOL spotters, plus infantry support, and you've got a very tough fighting force!
45 tons ac/10 t tons of ammo 2 MGs 7 tons of armor...thats a T-72/90 isn't it?
@@IronWarhorsesFun Pretty much! Or the 3025 equivalent.
@@IronWarhorsesFun Eh, modern tank cannons are (if you don't use the obsolete Rifled Cannon weapons family) more in the AC/5 range. For example the Marauder-3Rs AC/5 is a 120mm firing three-round bursts before a lengthy reload.
@@IronWarhorsesFun the only difference is that in tanks, the mass of armor accounts for 52 ... 58% of the total mass of the vehicle. So for a tank weighing 45 tons, the armor will have a mass of about 24.75 tons.
In Battletech the rules are tilted in favor of mechs to make them viable and important as their are in the setting.
I really like the Vehicles in the setting, extra special mention to the more outlandish and creative ones like the Long Tom.
Just wait until you see the community post I'll be working on... lol
Upon Seeing Most Vehicles: Target practice!
Upon Seeing Demolishers/SRM/LRM Carriers: PRIORITY TARGET!
I usually shit myself when I see SRM carriers. I've had one of those bastards oneshot an out of position heavy mech
@@ironboy3245 Oh yeah... PC Battletech there's nothing like being unable to get a lock on something only to have it round the corner, be an SRM carrier and missile bukkake onto a mech. It's not the damage that's painful (Although it is), it's the KD chance.
Don't forget the mighty Alacorn - three gauss rifles!
Great video! Vehicles have such a great economy of scale as support to the frontline behemoths of Battlemechs. Vehicles are a low-cost, easy to maintain solution to force projection. Quantity has a quality all its own.
Vehicles win in one crucial aspect; cost efficiency.
For the price of an Atlas you can get four Demolishers (or close to it). That's four pairs of AC20's looking to atomize anything that is unfortunate enough to be within range. You can get three Schrek PPC Carriers; the firepower of an Awesome for a fraction of the price.
Economically, Battlemechs are almost a liability, if not for their enhanced cognition systems through the pilot and robust weapon saturation. They are almost "battleships" of land.
It makes perfect sense, to me, why the Great Houses rely on so much mercenary or PMC work; they're offloading the cost of battlemech liabilities onto some rando looking to shoot something for his bread and butter. I wouldn't even be surprised if Great Houses kept certain industrial lines going simply as a means of fueling a constantly hungry military industrial complex that always pays out. Creates a serious amount of jobs, work, sales, etc; and all you have to do is make the parts and services.
It wouldn't surprise me if most Great Houses tallied more of their military strength in infantry, spacecraft, and vehicles while considering the battlemechs as a form of deterrent or auxiliary form of force multiplier, rather than the meat and potatoes of a regiment. After all, having a decked-out Atlas II is awesome; having a decked-out Atlas II explode is a "financial loss" that in the economics of war adds up very...very fast. Better to have some dude come in with his decked-out Atlas II, take a beating from the enemy, then pay him some couple million C-Bills for his and his lance mate's time. Let them sort out the finances and repair costs, equipment losses, and the like later.
It, in my honest opinion, creates an idea that there is a sort of "pyramid" of numbers that would be theoretical to warfare operations in the lore. Battlemechs would sit close to the top, but going down the pyramid you would have the bulk of a military supporting it. That Awesome becomes even more Awesome when you have a bunch of infantry launching mortars and storming buildings with aircraft aiming for any weakness in enemy armor per say.
Economically speaking... you can kind of see this effect if you field Two Marauders, two LRM20 Urbanmechs, and four LRM Carriers. Y'know...for when you just absolutely MUST bury something under missiles.
I'm a huge fan of the Ontos and the Partisan. Tank Destroyers and Flak Panzers are fun.
The fact the many BT vehicles still use I.C.E. suggests that the Tesla Tank never took off.
I heard the Tesla-Tank's founder just kept pouring money into a failed social media platform. Sad. :P
@@BigRed40TECH Truly a shame. Just think about how much more sustainable war would be if it was environmentally friendly.🤔
power cells are a construction option.
Can confirm that vehicles are a threat. In BTA 3062 my 3 LRM carriers are only outmatched in sheer firepower by heavy clan battlemechs and my assault mechs. They often get more kills than the light and medium mechs combined
Battletech's approach to Combined Arms warfare was something I always appreciated. Many universes almost always depict the mech as the pinnacle of military ingenuity (ie: Gundam's Mobile Suits), but in a universe like Battletech where the giant stompy robot dominates the battlefield, the humble combat vehicle still thrives. Even if they are commonly underestimated and overlooked, its in that underestimation do they really shine, be it in ambushes or supporting roles.
That's why I keep a few tanks and vehicles in my company, you know, just in case.
Mechs make sense in the Battletech fiction... sadly in our reality they still would never make sense. A future equivalent of Elementals (power armor and jet packs) is likely to be as close to mech as we get.
We can fight using these mechs, or we can go back to nuking each other from orbit. That's pretty much the justification for the mechs. The Ares Convention made war legal and regulated. with that, the companies saw a way of making huge profits from selling arms to the govt, one of those arms are battlemechs.
I cannot count, how many times I have underestimated ground vehicles in Hairbrained Battletech game and paid price in both meat and metal. In penultimate mission of the main campaign, trio of allied Shrek PPC carriers took 1/3 of OpForce, all heavy mechs. The scariest thing about them it's they are easy to ignore. Except for the Inferno carriers. I would prioritize shooting this hell barbeques over even a rampaging Banshee!
I was a tank crewmember for the M60A3, the M1 and the M1A1 Abrams. I became a tanker cause it was the closest thing I could bet to being a mech pilot back in the 80s and 90s. 😁 It has always boggled my mind that the 70 ton full battle rattle of an M1A1 or technological equivalent from the Battletech era does not play a bigger factor in the games and lore than it does already. That much concentrated armor, speed and situational awareness of the larger crew (using same sensor tech as mechs) of the tank should have more impact than it does. Hell the Abrams from today with its 120mm should easily be able to one shot most light mechs and some mediums through and through with a depleted uranium SABOT. Add in the weight distribution of the tank tonnage distributed along the track compared to all the weight stacked on a mechs two feet would make an operational difference I don't see ever addressed. Look at all the historical accounts of heavy elements getting bogged down while lighter and cheaper less trained units won decisive victories over their betters. But lets face it, Mechs are way cooler! Just adding my thoughts to the discussion. Good vid with a great topic!
I feel that comes from two places, while Battletech as a setting comes close to a lot of things in terms of realism, advanced munitions aren't really something you see a lot, in lore reasons it ~could~ be speculated that with the new armors mechs and vehicles have those older rounds don't penetrate like they should, but the more likely answer is it is still a product, and a game designer would be a little silly to put non-mechs ahead of mechs in terms of effectiveness because then it isn't Battletech anymore, it's just a wargame.
Part of the issue for Tanks is the height difference makes it considerably easier for a mech to punch a tank in its top armor, which the top armor and bottom armor is where the armor is thinnest and easiest to penetrate. This is why there are anti-tank missiles designed to fly over the tank and descend upon the tank, which is a default attack method of LRMs in the battletech setting. A tank could ambush if they remain undetected, but once they get spotted a few LRMs can break all but the toughest of tanks pretty easily.
Reinforcing the top armor would be highly important in the battletech setting, but that is extra tonnage used up that could have been in weapons for punching down tanks. Since the houses got uber focused on the shiny new toy the tank got left behind in its weaknesses.
Same reason why Tanks get chewed through so badly in Gundam series, they basically only ever get hit in the weak top armor or get hit by weapons that all but invalidate armor.
@@TankHunter678 Because my job was an Armor Crewman for years my take is much different than yours, but I do understand what you are saying. It makes sense from a game point of view, but there are some real world variables you may be missing, and that is all I am addressing with on my posts. I am a tank nerd and like discussing this stuff. I do appreciate your input and you make many valid points. 👍 There have been so many advances in the realm of APSs both in hardkill and softkill systems available today and Mechs can obviously mount the AMS in BT universe. You could expect that equipment to be available to tanks. Even present day tech like the Trophy on the M1A2 SEPv3 or the Arena combined with the Shtora-1 for some of the Russian T variant tanks can mitigate top attack ATGM, SACLOS and some direct fire munitions. Yes there are counter measures and tactics that can used against the APSs, but that is a whole other topic. While the Russian APSs are of questionable value (I have seen evidence of success in Ukraine but they performed poorly in Syria) they don't compare to the Trophy. The Trophy has an almost perfect IRL kill rate in the Gaza strip against ATGMs. Admittedly the performance against direct fire munitions like long rod penetrators is not near as reliable, the tech will continue to mature. Your explanation about armor is missing a few variables as well. A 70 ton tank would have a higher density of armor in a smaller, denser package than a mech when you compare size, profile and weight while packing the same penetrative weaponry like the Mechs. Big mech is also bigger target with a thinner dispersion of armor per square foot than a tank. There are also plenty of instances in real world of ERA being mounted on top of turrets and other thin areas that work as well. Granted it will only soak up so much. ERA is pretty light compared to RHA or most composites, although composites are getting much lighter. Mechs use advanced composite armors anyway, (Similar but obviously more advanced than the Abrams and Challenger) and I would imagine a tank ton for ton could pack more in its small size than a Mech in the BT realm. Don't forget other current tech that would likely be even better in the more advanced realm of BT like laser dispersing aerosols, ECW, EMP, laser based point defense systems, dazzlers and other tech I am not privy too. In still my belief that the physics and economics of actual combat would favor tanks in most (not all) instances warfare. But that is just my take. There is much more I could add to this discussion but I have babbled on long enough. 😄As others have stated, the game is primarily about Mechs and lore that surrounds them. I love cruising around in my Stompy Stomps in Mechwarrior 5, and who can resist the fun of the table top version of Battletech or the lore of the RPG version? I know I can't! 🤠
Modern-day or slightly better tank cannons are in the game under primitive tech. They're next to completely worthless against anything with military-grade BAR 10 armor (so basically the Mackie and everything that comes after in terms of military frontline units), and just completely outperformed by the basic autocannon family in every way except for being dirt cheap and so easy to make you could do it in some basic machine shop in the deep Periphery.
The only actual unit using one of these in the setting is a Periphery-built toy called the Arbiter: It's literally a civilian industrial Mech that's extensively dolled up with low-quality support vehicle-grade commercial armor plate and fitted with the heaviest of those guns, all to make it look like a big heavy Battlemech. The whole purpose of it is to shoo away pirates without a fight, just by looking scary enough to make them decide it's not worth the risk. And if that fails it's got a problem, because even a Bug Mech decisively outmatches that thing.
I would like to point out 'modern' tanks have thin top armour because they are designed before top attack missiles were invented and in an age where air defenses trumped contmeporary ground attack aircraft.
Its unlikely that tanks won't improve their top armour if weapons that can't be delt with by aps that attack the top armour become common.
So if mechs can infact target tanks top armour reliably then tanks would likely have thick top armour.
Tanks are a more volume efficient design and thus for the same weight should have better armour in all directions.
The hunter lrm tank is my absolute favorite. Fast, cheap and works well with 5/8 movement that I prefer.
the 5/8 movement is a misprint. according to the 3026 tech manual it should be 7/11
Another solid video, always look forward to your releases. I'm really excited about the inclusion of vehicles in the upcoming mercenary kickstarter.
Mechs rule the battlefield until the SRM carrier comes around the corner and the long toms get blasting.
Everybody gangsta until they see a jeep and hear 120 LRMs popping off from somewhere
Another great video.
Install "scary tanks" mod in MW5, and tanks becoming a factor you cant ignore any more!
Job well done sir. Hit it out of the park!
Chevalier is my favorite tank in MechWarrior Living Legends, I play it almost everyday and it's normally my starting asset with a light gauss and mrm10 hidden with a guardian ecm.
I also like the Hephaestus with the 2 heavy mediums and dual srm 4 "Non-canon srm variant in the game... 2 srm4 in one hardpoint" and a ecm.
I remember one time during a MW5 infiltration mission I was in a Jenner and my pal was in a urban mech we had approached a group of six tanks mostly the manticore with some demolishers, at the time we were just worried about being able to kill them fast enough for the mission.
So after debating a bit I go charging in using the speed and firepower of my Jenner to scythe death amongst the enemy, stepping on those I could crush and blasting the ones I couldn’t . After a grueling chaotic minute of slaughter my mind filled with the rush the dust settled and I was not surprised to see that I had hardly taken any damage. But then to my horror I saw what had happened to my lance mate.
I had been to filled with battle lust my attention entirely on the destruction of those inferior tanks that I hadn’t heard the cries of panic and pain from my brother in steel, for he had been completely disarmed, his UAC5 and Large laser destroyed only a small laser keeping him in the fight, it was then I realized that if the tanks had aimed for me in stead of him, that all that would be left of me was a slag of warm steel
Everybody gangsta till the srm carrier pops out from behind a building.
another exelent video as always Big Red 😙👌
Great video man.
I learned to respect tanks when I watched an SRM carrier blow ever inch of armor off the front of a Warhammer.
It's a wonderful thing.
Mech disrespects vehicle, loses all of the armor on a face.
Mech realizes it's serious time, focuses every weapon it has on vehicle, vehicle still has 30 points of front armor left.
Mech proceeds to go kaboom
Very appropriate to have the MW4 opening cutscene play as background music.
As a AFV player in our BT games, everything you said is very true.
That said, as I also filled in as Medivac for the lance whereas a mech could not do that.
I also had quite the luck in injuring mech pilots...
I just looked up the Saladin, and I'm shocked the Clans turned it into a men and munitions mover. Sure, Clan war machines are ammo hungry, fast, and powerful, but with the clan's love of speed and firepower, it feels like a natural vehicle to adopt.
Also, I saw on the Sarna news comments that there may apparently be a clanner SRM carrier with hardened armor now.
Love your videos
Another banger, BR40K. I love learning more about the BT universe, and your channel along with Critical Rocket, Grim Dark Narrator, and BPL are what really provides the flavor and a “sense of depth and urgency” when combined with the numerous, soulless Sarna dives. Don’t get me wrong, Sarna is GREAT, but it often lacks critical details and feeling that doesn’t really pull me in. Though I’ve just finally got around to reading some of the BT novels, and man, while I’m glad I am finally doing it, as my own writing benefits from seeing BT from a more “proper” lore perspective... I just want to read about Katrina Steiner and see all of her escapades. LOL So your lore videos on Mechs and the like are straight and to the point, and if they’re not “quick” then they’re entirely relevant and still a joy even in the long form videos. No matter what, when I see a video from BR40K I know that it’s going to be a half hour well spent. LOL
I don't use Sarna to make these videos. If I do, it's just to grab references. ;)
Thanks for the kind words!
@@BigRed40TECH Oh, I have no doubt you don’t have all of the no BS technical read outs to get the hard info from, I’d have them myself but I just don’t play tabletop so I can’t really justify the expense of purchasing them all for writing. I’d love to find them all if I could, but looking for pirated copies just wouldn’t sit well with me, so instead I just have to use the free Sarna resources. Cheers!
Was hoping to see just a small mention of WiGEs, which are so rare they can't be eaten at all (pardon the pun), but nevertheless, I love the mention of a class of unit in BTech that I seriously love employing, especially in campaigns. Seriously appreciate this, and great vid as usual!
EDIT: OH WAIT..... there're going to be MORE vids about vehicles?!!! OMG EXCELLENT! Do see if you're willing to cover a few other units like the Demolisher tank, Yellow Jacket VTOL or a small mention of WiGEs as well. Looking forward to the upcoming vehicle vids!
I'm just covering some of the stuff in the kickstarter atm, I may cover some after it's done, but it's not immediately planned. :)
They advantage that the Mech has is mobility. Not just jump jets, but you can drop mechs easier than you drop tanks. A Leopard can dart in nape of the Earth, viff to drop mechs, and be gone in seconds, you can't do that with tanks. And you can't drop tanks from near orbit. But for garrisons, the tank is cheaper and easier.
Pretty sure you could drop tanks from orbit if you had the tech to drop mechs from orbit. Also mobility would only be better in certain terrains. On paved roads or mild off-road wheels are king. I bet that if you have jets that can lift a mech, those same jets can also lift a tank. Frankly, the only advantage that a mech would have over a tank is that is it 100x cooler, and rule of cool wins over any other, always.
I've **always** played my 'mechs' as _super mobile_ Artillery. That should really be their whole in-universe justification IMO... they're just naturally way more "stabilized" than a wheeled vehicle so why not run with it? (literally)
@@HalIOfFamer you can drop anything from orbit once.
Yes, I remember Hot dropping a Lance of Light to medium Battlemechs in Mechwarrior 4 Vengeance.
@@decepticonpecock you are not wrong.
Great video. Thanks very much. Love to see detailed videos about vehicles 😁
Tanks are to Mechs, as chocolate is to icecream, delicious on their own but when complimenting each other far more pleasing.
Infantry is the cone.
Kinda dry and unappealing, but if you skip it, the moment you're eating your icecream you suddenly want nothing more.
One of the "additional not mentioned" vehicles that I think needs to be covered has to be the Partisan.
What happened to create the Partisan? Somebody forgot a zero on the weapons ordering form. Instead of getting AC-20's they got AC-2s.
They made it work nonetheless. 5AC2's is nothing to sneeze at, and that damage adds up quick.
Partisan's a good vee, it'll get covered one day. :)
I thought it was just a sci-fi Tunguska like air defense vehicle.
Thanks for covering the under appreciated fighters of the setting! Not just Infantry, but tanks and every shade in-between.
And quoting my old instructor, Deadeye. I missed that angry old man.
Well done, this is amazing.
Any setting that uses such battlemechs is going to need some liberties taken on the realism in battle, on logistics, and just on the concept and its ability to be executed. Anyone who has tried to design a mech that works in the real world always ends up concluding that with a tank once revisions are done, and even for power armour the limits for combat potential seem to be on mechanical third arms usable only to transport equipment that's typically too large for one man to carry around in combat despite being light enough to do so. It's one of those things we just accept because between a realistic story about the nature of combat in the far future, or an interesting one with mechs, we accept that the latter has limits preventing it from overlapping with the former. It's not about their use being realistic, it's about it being consisting within the logic of its setting and treated with the seriousness the setting calls for.
MW5 vehicles are my first targets in modded AND unmodded MW5, the moment I started realizing how deadly they were my repair bills fell by orders of magnitude, those little guys may only take a few shots to put down but if ignored will shear your mechs apart laughing.
I can't wait to get the vehicles from the Kickstarter!
Well done vid!
While Mechs may be Lords of the battlefield, a Lord can be torn down by the knights that it deems beneath it
As soon as you do campaigns in the board game you start to hate vehicles unless you have some yourself, then you love them.
I remember back in 92 or 93 we played a massive game on a huge board (6x4 maps) and in the last few days of play, there were no mechs left, only vehicles and a few platoons of infantry.
That was such a fun campaign/game.
PS.: I suggest adding the Bulldog tank to your list. It is after all one of if not the most iconic Davion-tank of the '28 era.
Davion? Bulldog Enterprises is a Drac company.
give me a company of Saladins and I will return your mech unit back as scrap. Those AC20 sleds are outrageous :D
Another great overview :-) vehicles can be deadly if underestimated I love mixing some into a company... to gain a cheap big hit that might turn the fight if ignored :-)
Finally, vehicle videos! Please thrown in The coolant truck, the Kanga, and Rotunda for laughs.
The Demolisher will always be the uncrowned master of the battlefield. It can take out any BattleMech with one volley from its head clipping twin 185mm AC20 Autocannon's. None are safe.
Need the Von Luckner, it has great history and capabilities. Please make a Von Luckner video, Red.
This is not planned. Never say never, but it's just not what's currently slated.
Boo hiss! I see these words but hear them in Alaric's voice.
I think that following this video, you should probably take a peek at protomechs... or the result of the clans DESPISING vehicles out of garrison duty, but being still in need of cheaper combat vehicles than full on mechs... and one of the only unit types to be exclusing to a faction (in that case the clans) due to how unique the requirements for the pilot are to be able to operate such a machine.
I don't plan on covering Protomechs.
@@BigRed40TECH i know they are a small topic... But i think they are worth covering in a video of the same type as this one (looking at the unit class, think indeed no individual proto is really worth its own video)
@@thorveim1174 I strongly dislike Protomechs. Which is why I won't be covering them. They don't interest me, which makes making a video about them really... almost impossible.
@@BigRed40TECH I agree. They're in a terrible no-man's land between light mechs and infantry. It's a solution looking for a problem.
Plus they all look hideously stupid.
playing trough hbs battletech rn and i was wondering: how is that the 60t mech have 4x structure, armor and weapons of 60t tank, where all the mass goes to? thanks for the education provided.
Another solid quote from Sgt Deadeye Gunther
Still love Savannah Masters. Just a medium laser and speed!
I assume that ICEs don't necessarily have to be powered by gasoline, but could be a wide variety of anything that just provides an internal combustion (biofuels, hydrogen cells, etc.)
I'd assume so as well, depending on the engine.
I like to imagine the Capellans use dried powdered political dissidents as if it was coal.
@@fix0the0spade It's a renewable energy source.
@@fix0the0spade Kuritans: "You dry them out first?"
ICEs still are powered by diesel, gasoline & can run on anything similar to petroleum harvested from foreign planets as engine fuels in the distant future
There are also vehicles in Battletech run on fuel cells
9:16 is anyone else amused when the tank opens up its hatch and spits out a casing? _plink! plink!_
Looking at how some big name groups are adopting heavier combined arms tactics, like the 21st Centauri Lancers, and with the addition of high quality plastic vehicles, I hope to see much more love focused on the Treadnoughts of Battletech
Some of those better designed, higher tech level tanks can damned near match mechs of their tonnage in combat. Never underestimate the old fashioned box on treads
Every mech force is just a calculation problem and concentrating challenge for Arrows, Long Toms and LRM Carriers.
Xin Sheng!
while its sad that VTOLs are considered so weak its still awesome to hear about how they and tracked armor can still perform well. not only that but are also necessary for armies to function. really looking forward to your upcoming vehicle focused videos. also really looking forward to the day that more fixed-wing aerospace craft get a chance at the spotlight. read about the Xerxes the other day, thing sounds horrifying.
They're weak in that they tend to comically evaporate when hit by serious firepower. The rotor is always a weakpoint you can't really get rid off, and they can't carry all that much armor either given their weight limitations. Of course, hitting them in the first place is the hard part, given how fast they are.
Armaments-wise, they tend to compare decently to Mech's in their tonnage range, too. They mostly tend to pack short-ranged weapons because long-range stuff tends to be too heavy to allow them to mount much firepower. And then there's the Yellow Jacket. The Yellow Jacket is an absolute asshole design. It's probably the slowest combat VTOL in widespread production. Which leaves it with 17 tons of space for armament on a 30-ton VTOL. So what did the nutters who designed it spend that on? *A goddamn Gauss Rifle* and two tons of ammo.
So glad my intro to Battletech was by accident Second Edition Citytech and Aerotech.
Not saying it gives me some kind of superior view of things.
But for sure a more flexible, and more detailed view of things. Getting to the ground is just the end of the beginning.
Hey man, i love mw5 mercenaries. Play the crap outta that game without mods. But even i know vehicles are more than a speedbump for mechs. One harasser is funny. Two are annoying and three are a problem. Combine those with missle carriers, vtols and those DAMN PARTISAN HEAVY TANKS and you've got a bigger threat than mechs on your scopes. They can duck behind hills, scurry through cities and just be an overall pain in the ass to deal with. And they're bloody EVERYWHERE. My lancemates fight the enemy mechs while i kill their vehicle support, because I've learned over my like 60k day career that its not the tall stompy robots that are your biggest problem. You can see those, you know where they are. Its the vehicle regiment hiding behind every nook and cranny ready to knife your ankles or drop missle salvos on your head that's gonna spell your doom. Id rather round the corner of a building to an atlas any day than two srm 40 carriers. I'll live longer against the atlas. We don't all think like solaris arena mechjocks XD
Hmm, I can't find the exact breakdown readily now, but I wonder if you're familiar enough with Crescent Hawk's Revenge to have an opinion for Operation Liberty: 3 lighter lances of vehicles or 2 heavier to pull off the rescue?
Age of War vehicle combat is the real man's Battletech
Awesome video on the vehicles. Really we focus on Battlemechs but I personally think most mech kills can be attributed to either aircraft or ground vehicles may not think it but vehicles tend to be more numerous then mechs.
Me: minding my own business, casually committing war crimes and having a lovely afternoon.
SRM60 carrier: And I took that personally
Damn right. lol
Hello Red.
A well presented video about the humble forces of the non-Mech battle machines.
Even back in the late 80s, I lamented the lack of tanks and other vehicles in most of the games played by my fellow players. As I look back to the mid-90s and later, I remember more and more vehicles being used by players who had seen their worth in battle by seeing their Mechs in shreds, if they survived at all, post battle.
I have always been a proponent of 'combined arms' warfare. Even though tanks suffer from some issues as to terrain, they are less costly than your average Mech, and used wisely, can tilt a battle to favor your own forces.
I cannot even say how many times that I have heard other players bemoan my use of things like LRM carriers to 'lay down the hurt' on the enemy. Or, how often that enemy charges forwards, only to find mostly depleted tanks moving back from their firing positions, just before being pounced upon by untouched Mech forces.
The Mech may be the new 'king' of the battlefield, but the humble tank is still 'worth its metal' in almost any battle.
I think there's a entry in tro 3025 that talks about a Commonwealth Mechanized unit beating a DCMS mech force.
Oh yea, there are a few examples of them writing about tanks beating mechs absolutely.
Ach the epizode for SRM/LRM/MRM cariers will be fun
Not planned in the immediacy, but something that will likely happen in the future.
@@BigRed40TECH i am happy to hear that and thanks for fast response
In HBS Battletech when my friends and I see a hetzer, it becomes a high priority target.
all Hail the once and future king!
Because Harebraineds game seeing an SRM carrier makes me clench.
Also if I may. Maybe a two for one video that goes over the Savannah Master and Behemoth tank.
Fastest and lightest hovercraft, and the less of a tank, and more a angry semi mobile gun bunker.
While that sounds great, it's just a time thing. I can't commit to covering too many vehicles atm, when I have a huge number of other things that I've promised to do. I try to keep my commitments limited in what I'm going to cover to not overpromise.
@@BigRed40TECH Totally understand. This universe just has so much cool stuff.
Trying to cover everything would be like going to every part of Disney in Florida in a week or something. Doable I guess, but would not be fun though.
@@kevinmulkey9774 I'm unlikely to do a full rules breakdown for every vehicle rule. I'd recommend getting Battletech: Total Warfare for that. :)
Vehicles are a powerful tool for every commander, and combined arms tactics are always superior to one-sided ones.
(Unless you are Clan Hell's Horses, ...poor ponies)
Can you a video on the Rommel/Patten tank?
Also how about the behemoth? I love the Behemoth the thing is huge.
You should watch the whole video! lol
@@BigRed40TECH i did. Reinforcement 🙂.
They never got sidelined they evolved
I love that while editing this...BigRed was also watching Tex abuse vehicles to cheese out some advanced BattleTech rounds that probably should have bankrupted him. i
hm? I was still writing the script at that time. I wasn't editing at that moment :P
@@BigRed40TECH wow you really do work fast then
@@iller3 It's my job :P
For what it is worth, vehicle crew (tank/afv/apc/ifv to truck drivers etc) are A LOT easier to train than a Mechwarrior.
A Mechwarrior is akin to a modern day fighter pilot, long time to train and even require certain physical aspects. Inner ear damage or minor neural conditions can make it impossible for the person to become a mechwarrior. Never mind that most mechs are single piloted, so the work load (checking targets, communication, driving the mech etc) is all dependent on one Mechwarrior.
By contrast vehicle crews don't suffer from requirements like that and work load is split. Finding 4 average guys is miles easier than 1 great guy that tick the boxes.
The only downside of vehicles is that the damn critical hits tables are so slanted against them and they pop like balloons once something gets through the armor. Though granted critical hits aside, they have more armor per facing than most mechs can dream off (20 tons of armor over 5 facings is vastly better than 11 facings mechs have to cover).
I've crippled reliable laser boats and hot running mechs with the likes of Pegasus hovercraft squadrons loaded up with SRMs and inferno ammo.
And wow betide those who ignore the humble LRM carrier.
I remember dumping a mostly VTOL-force in Roguetech.....pretty much evades most attacks against it, until you run into the odd Arrow IV AA or Antiair missiles. On the plus side, the VTOLs trounce everything else, ton for ton. Since Roguetech's largest limiting factor is the 800 ton drop limit very late game, VTOLs and BA to max out your drops are almost always a must. Drop in a resupply vehicle too, and the VTOLs can keep shooting.
For the tanks, they tend to be way cheaper than mechs. If not for the game mechanics of vehicle destruction on destroying any section, unlike the mechs having damage transfer from arm to torso to center, tanks have comparable armour to mechs. Also, who doesnt like a triple gauss Alacorn with a targeting computer? Or any of the weapons carriers like the Inferno or SRM carrier? Or the best part: Being able to shoot artillery without rolling to fall over or bracing. Vehicles fill in a very strong support role in Btech, and I love them.
Stand at the receiving end of a heavy SRM Carrier while it surprises your Mech in a City or a Mountain Site can easy destroy any Battlemech or at least damage it so heavy that you will fall back IF you get a chance for that
Learned that the Hard way in MegaMek against a Friend of mine.
same, except i learned it through Battletech game. my Centurion had the SRM carrier dead to rights, he missed, and it is the carrier's turn next. then i sat and watched by Cent slowly disintegrate in a kamehameha of 40 srm missiles.
i now give them a wide berth and prioritized for absolute destruction before i do anything else.
It's a sad state that you had to use war thunder gameplay as opposed to battle tech or mechwarrior gameplay considering the universe advertises itself as a "combined arms" game. I remember seeing the fan game mechwarrior living legends letting you play any type of tank or flying vehicle, I hope something like that will appear in the future.
Mechwarrior's never really been described as playing Combined Arms itself outside of just shooting tanks. I mean. The only time you play a vehicle in the entire MW franchise I think is in MW2 Mercenaries during the Clan Invasion... One mission in Mechassault too, if you want to count that one.
are there any diffrent kind of ICE engines i heard they were all diesel, but i wonder if there are gas turbine engines like the Abrams tank
Means just about anything. Gas. Diesel. Jet fuel. ect.
@@BigRed40TECH Hmm I never heard anything like that but okay thanks
@@sheilaolfieway1885 When they call it an ICE, it means an ICE. Remember, the Warrior Helicopter starts with an ICE, it's not running on Diesel.
@@BigRed40TECH there are plenty of modern helcopters that run off of the old piston engine... though that does make me wonder what sort of engine industrial mechs are using...
What appropriate timing, after watching the Tank Museum video about "Nobody wants tanks, unless they want to win" with regard to a current real world conflict where about a year ago where the less informed claimed the "tank was dead" (for the umpteenth time since the end of the second world war). Part of my love/hate relationship with Battletech has been how, artificial, the rules seem to deal with non-mech units. As a teen in the 90's, I was all about the giant stompy robots and ate it up like candy. In adult life, I served with armored units and learned all the nasty tricks such vehicles are capable of and realized a 7 meter (21') walking target would be easy prey to 'lesser' combat vehicles leading me to kind of back off from Battletech (that, and well, FASA going out of business at the exact same time and nobody playing Battletech anymore at the FLGS). I still enjoyed Mechwarrior 2, and Heavy Gear 2, as computer games though. Now days, with the much more refined battlevalues and C-Bill costs to even out games, I'll pull out a Patton and LRM Carrier to augment my mech forces, and since my sons are still learning and we stick to medium and light mechs... They have come understand in spite of the plot armor mechs have, they are indeed vulnerable to such vehicles who fire the same weapons the mechs have, after all, an AC10 still hits for 10 points with the same chance for criticals on a tank as it does from an Enforcer; and you can't stomp and LRM carrier if are too damaged from taking hits trying to get close enough to engage it.
I love vehicles in battletech cause they can be really nasty on tabletop
If you could in one of your videos can you go over the rules for Vehicles, the rules are not clear at leas for me., Thanks love your Videos.
What's not clear?
when you hit a vehicle which table do you use?
@@robertreid9256 It is in the Total Warfare book :D
Another table is often on the record sheets for individual vehicles as well.
"Don't bring a vehicle to a mech fight" *gets cored by an ac 20 outta nowhere* "don't bring a light mech to an ac20 fight"
So being with FASA and battletech from the beginning, I wonder if anyone else had this thought, have anyone checked out the renegade legion ❓ this was a FASA game that took place in the far future, I believe the long game with it was the future of battletech, many similarities, in game mechanics, and how things worked like the ftl travel, one of the states being called the “federated commonwealth “ and history of their timelines. They had what was called a grav-tank, very powerful vehicles, with a great many capabilities, the out come of advanced technology vehicles.