ALL: I've posted another video on my channel showing how I installed the extra wire in the wall that others have asked about below. Check it out here: th-cam.com/video/HME5amrYG5A/w-d-xo.html
Finally, a video that explained what I was doing wrong and how to fix it. I was trying to install a light fixture off of an existing switch, similar to your video, however, I had no idea that the switch had no neutral wire. After viewing your video, I went back into my garage and looked at the light that the switch currently feeds. Sure enough, it was an electrical outlet and the current light was nothing more than a light fixture plugged into the outlet. With this new knowledge and with some of the comments below, I'll take this information and try again. Thank you for the well done video.
Beautiful video all the way through. I greatly appreciate the time you took to make this. I don't know how many days of my life you've given back to me by making this video
I've only watched the first five minutes of your video but you have already shown what I need to know so I can wire a setup to control some plug in shop lights in my pole barn. There was no way to hardwire these ones in without doing a really ugly job of it so I am doing the switch outlet approach. Every other video so far has no closeups that are good, no proper explanations, but yours is spot on. And I will make sure to mark the white wire with electrical tape. Thanks.
As a point of ease to be code approved in new runs from your panel to your switch box to what you want controlled by your switch. This keeps it neat and simple.
Very well explained and visually documented. I have been looking for this exact information to allow me to install smart light switches that require a neutral. I have looked at many videos and other websites for this information and nothing was as clear as this. Thank you
Hi Allen, I am try to install a smart switch that requires a neutral as well. My current switch only have one black and white attached. So I want to know if you have any success installing the smart switch? Thanks.
Dude! Finally a great video on how to modify a switch loop. Thank you so much. I need to do this with three of the rooms in my 60's rancher that had no center ceiling lights and have been looking for a good instructional all week. You are the best!!
Good stuff. I’m a chief engineer for a management company and these type of videos are great training tools. My only critique is designating the difference between single pole switches vs three way and four ways. If you mentioned this my apologies but I didn’t hear anything about that because the DIY guy will just grab whatever he sees and it will be wrong. Nevertheless thanks for sharing I just subbed.
Best I've seen, and I've watched a bunch of these vids. Explanation was fast, succinct, informative and fascinating. There is a name for people like you: Teacher.
Had the identical issue with my light switch. Was just going to tie into a circuit from the attic, drop it down and then back up to the light I'll be adding. Then after watching your video duh, go into the power outlet and put that neutral back on to an actual neutral wire, problem solved thank you so much
Thank you so much for this! I know it’s an old video, but I watched so many videos trying to trouble shoot why I couldn’t get the connections quite right for a new ceiling light and this was my exact wiring configuration! Thank thank thank you!
Very helpful video. Nearly my entire house was wired so that switches controlled outlets, because the only build-in lights were in the kitchen & bathroom. All other rooms relied a lamp to be plugged in. Not only do I want to install lights and such in the ceiling, but I want to use smart switches to be controlled by my Amazon Echoes. Those smart switches require a neutral wire present. The only thing I'll need to do different from what was in this video is to make a pigtail from the neutral wire grouping to connect to the smart switch.
Just what I was looking for. Been meaning to install some ceiling lighting in my kids' bedrooms, and came across this exact issue and wiring scheme. Thanks for your clear explanation and instructions.
Hard part is the magical step that led to the new Romex appearing in the box, without damaging the wall. Everything else was obvious. I was hoping for some guidance in threading the new cable through the wall, sigh.
Dan Swinehart sorry for the delayed response, I shot a video of the light install and never posted it, maybe I will because this question is coming up frequently. I cut a small hole in the wall near the ceiling. I then removed the existing switch and fed a fish tape through the spare hole in the top of the junction box up to the hole I cut in the wall. This is the least obtrusive way of doing this with minimal damage. Hope this helps you.
Fishing tape and a roller plate (it's a thing the shape of a single switch you can mount to the box, with metal roller wheels to prevent the cord from damaging the surrounding wall as you pull it through)
Great job.... If it were me doing the job, I would have utilized acgreen wire nut. I also would have changed out the receptacle and single pole switch with better quality devices. They had to be old. You went through all that work, just update the devices to safer, better quality.....
Great video. I wonder how many people blow themselves up each year trying to wire in switches when they have no clue what they are doing? Be CAREFUL guys, especially if you live in Europe or the UK, where the wires are Brown, Blue, and yellow and green :-) or Red, Black and Green if you're old school. We have 240 volts in the UK and it can KILL !!!
Thats why I mention "do this work at your own risk" and to hire an electrician if need be. People have their limitations, and its one of the reasons why I wouldn't hop in a cockpit and try to fly a plane . Thanks for the comment.
Great video. My set up is very similar to yours. Light switch box had a hot white wire along with a hot black wire that controlled a single outlet on my wall. I ran new wire Romex for a ceiling fan down to the switch box. Black, red, white and ground. In switch box I have the power (white and black) tied into a pig tail leading into the switch. Loading out of the switch box is a pigtail that is tied to the fan light (black and red) running to the fan. The neutral wire in the new wire pulled has nothing to connect to so I believe the circuit cannot be completed. The power to the outlet however has been completed and is no longer reliant on the switch being flipped up to get power. The difference I have is in my electrical outlet that was being controlled by the switch. I have on the gold side of the outlet a black and a red wire that are hot and two white wires that are not hot. There are no extra white wires that have been pig tailed in the outlet box so I’m not sure how to get my neutral wire in the switch box to not have power anymore. Any ideas?
This is the best way to do it... *IF* you no longer want to control the outlet via the switch. Assuming there's no other choice but to run another wire to the box if you still WANT TO control the outlet from the switch.
Good presentation, but one problem. When you connected the ground wires in the switch box you twisted one ground wire around the other. Electrical inspectors will be looking for the green wirenuts to be present or they will fail the inspection. The green wirenuts have a hole in the end for one ground wire to go all the way through and the other ground wire is connected inside the box.
NEC 2017 require a neutral now. In all new installation. This due to many electronic devices that require a neutral. Because there was no neutral inside the box, the electrician would use the ground conductor. This way the NEC made this change. 12-2-2 or 14-2-2 is now being sold. No more switch loop in new switch box installation.
Local codes here require green crimp sleeve on the bare copper grounding bundle. Also find it easier and neater to give the finished devise a one turn twist before placing into the box. The wires will then be neatly coiled up.
Excellent instructions on this problem that I just came upon today, I do have one question if the switch works more than just one outlet like in a bedroom which outlet do you rewire the closest one to the switch?
Tip: your wire stripper has a hole just above the stripping section to bend the J hook onto the stripped wire for the terminal. No need for the needle nose pliers for that purpose
Great video but not sure it will work with my set up. My outlet doesn’t have the hot wires that are capped off in your video. Instead only has the load wire and neutral wires. How do I get power back to the outlet if the load wire is turned into a neutral?
In MA you don’t need to identify the neutral , about a green wire nut for the ground wire, and if you are installing light fixtures you need to replace the breaker too AF
@fixitwitzim - Is there a similar way to install standard smart three-way switches in a box where the electrician used the neutral from the breaker box as a traveler? I have a three-way switch with the Neutrals in the box, but this is the load switch (shorts the circuit, when I connect the Neutral wire to the switch), and the line switch uses the Neutral wire as one of the Travelers! The line switch is configured in a two-gang box with another three-way switch (I would like to replace that one, too). Can I pig-tail the Line (or Neutral) wire from the adjacent switch to the Neutral for the smart switch? Thanks.
Great video! Extremely helpful. I'm looking to convert my 3-way switch setup to a smart config but I only have a neutral on one switch end. I'm trying to avoid using a bridge and still have it compatible with Alexa and Google. I know a bridge can support many devices but because of the size of the house, I am trying to avoid it if possible as well as avoid running a new wire in the wall. Any ideas?
It's worth mentioning that while rewiring the outlet, you created a dangerous setup in the switch box - because the load and the line were newly connected there. If the switch was in the ON position and someone decided to turn the breaker on to test the outlet, there would be some fireworks. For peace of mind, it would have been much safer to disconnect the switch *before* changing the load wire to neutral in the outlet.
Safety standards are to put tape over the breaker if not working alone in a house. That should be recognized as not normal by most. Also let others in the house know you have turned off a breaker. Also off and tripped at different physically at the breaker.
The answer seems obvious but it doesn't look like there's really a way to add a neutral wire in the switch box, but keep the outlet being switched (not changing to a permanently installed fixture) without snaking a new wire up to the switch unfortunately. I'm trying to add a smart dimmer switch to control a plugged in lamp and have the same wiring situation as the beginning of the video.
Daniel Finnegan you’ll need to add a wire. Others have asked this and I’ll be posting a video soon showing how I did that. On a side not, you should never add a dimmer to control an outlet. Too many things can go wrong if someone plugs another device into it besides the lamp you want to control. You can purchase a dimmable bulb that is controlled over wifi which might be the better option for your situation
I have similar issue. My switch control small bathroom fan. The power source come into the fan first. The switch has only 1 romex 14/2 come into the box. I have a bare copper ground connect to the switch, a back wire constant power supply connect to brass screw and a white (not neutral) connect to other brass screw on the switch to return the power back to the fan. Now, I like to add an outlet right below the switch but I dont have a neutral wire. What is the best way resolve this issue? Thanks in advance Zim
Tim Yorty I shot a video of the light install and never posted it, maybe I will because this question is coming up frequently. I cut a small hole in the wall near the ceiling. I then removed the existing switch and fed a fish tape through the spare hole in the top of the junction box up to the hole I cut in the wall. This is the least obtrusive way of doing this with minimal damage. Hope this helps you.
I have seen someone even install an outlet with just the hot and ground from the switch box as they are very close to each other !!! Although the outlet appears to work, that's a NO NO.
Thank you for the video. I have the same issue with mine. I don't know much about wiring and codes so I will double check with an electrician regarding the ground screw to a plastic box? All of the receptacle and switch boxes in my house are plastics. I wonder if they're not to code since I don't see any ground screws inside. Any who, thank you though.
Alex Nguyen Ground screw to a plastic j box is not necessary. You should have a ground screw however to the device (switch, outlet, light, etc). And yes, if you're not familiar with this type of work, definitely contact an electrician. Thanks for the comment!
The outlet was switched, now is always on. Makes it easier when you can lose functionality... Otherwise would have needed yet another romex between switch and outlet.
Hello. Great great video. I’m trying to figure out how to add a neutral wire to a switch box from a light fixture. Our house in 98 years old and unfortunately does not have any neutral wires. And I cannot do your method in video because there isn’t an electrical outlet on the side of the room I’m working on. I want to install a smart switch for my kitchen and dining room. I’ve read you can add a neutral by running a wire directly from light fixture (chandelier) back to the switch box. Is this accurate? If so, do you have any videos that may cover this, or which terminal/screw on light fixture would be used for the neutral out? Thank you again for your video and your help (if possible).
Sounds like you have power coming into your light fixture junction box and they ran a single piece of wire from that box to your switch box to crest a switched leg. These actually aren’t allowed in most places anymore due to the inception of smart switches and devices. Check the link in the description of this video or it might be in the pinned comment. It’s some additional tips for running new wires in existing walls. Hope this helps
The hardest part would have been to run that new wire down into an existing box. How do you fish that ? lol Sometimes it's really hard to remove the box. Esp if its nailed in.
I like it, however, when you speeded up the video on the receptical, I could only count three black wires and three white wires going into the wire nut. You said four, but I lost the logic of the circuit at that point.
So, what if I’m installing a ceiling fan and the switch already has a neutral in the box? The switch controls an outlet so i need to use your method to rewire the outlet I’m assuming.
Although I believe it a good practice to re-identify the white conductor used in the switch, I do not believe that it is a violation of NEC to install as in the video. Reference NEC 2017 310.110(C) This references you to 210.5(C) for branch circuits. It seems that re-identification of the conductors is required when there is more than one nominal voltage system. Residential has only 120 volts to ground, therefore re-identification is not required. As I said, I would do it if I were doing the install.
Excellent video and explanation of why black tape or marking should always be added. However, i cringed when You cut excess wire off. I never do that since i came across to many jobs that had wires way too short.
rms59 Thanks for the compliments. When we I trim the wiring in a j box, i make sure to leave enough for future work. The pinky and thumb trick which I'm sure you know is what I use to gauge the length of my stub outs. I like to trim all the conductors to the same length for ease of install
@@n5yiz I'm guessing that's what he means. When I was helping my electrician wire our house, he told me to put my middle fingertip on the wall above the outlet and to extend my thumb all the way out. Pull the wires out of the box (this was right after the drywall was installed, so the wires were still long) and snip them off at the end of your thumb. This gives you roughly six inches of slack, while not totally crowding the interior of the box.
What type of spare wires did you use with to pigtail the hot and neutral in the outlet? If I have to buy a spare wire for that purpose, is there a range of guages that I can get from or does it have to be a particular guages or type?
The video is great if I want to add a device that the switch can control by bypassing the plug. In my case, I just want to add a wi-fi switch to control the plug. I need a neutral wire? It looks like my only hope is to run a neutral wire from the plug to the switch. That sucks.
Question- my dining room has neutral wires and has a smart dimmer installed. RIGHT behind it on the other side of the wall there's the kitchen light switch box, but no neutral. Can I pull the dining room neutral through the back to supply neutrals for the kitchen light switch? Just add a short white colored wire between them? Thanks!
So I bought a smart light switch and found out it requires a neutral wire. I only have two wires leading to my switch. Not sure if I could rewire it like you did in the plug or would I have to pull new wires to the switch and ceiling fan?
Sounds like you have a switch loop like my video shows. You’ll need to add an additional wire. I have another video on my channel with some helpful tips on how to do that. Check the video description on this one for it.
Thank you for this video, like others I want to add a smart switch to control an old chandelier. In the switch box there is an early 2000’s Lutron dinner and only 2 wires a black and a purple. I’m assuming the black is the line and the purple is the load going to the fixture. Is it possible that the light fixture had the neutral wired directly and I can split off that connected via wire nut to run a neutral wire to the switch box?
So after you add the light, the plug will not be control by the switch any more? it will have 120v all the time at the plug? I try to add smart switch but it require white neutral wire. My switch only come with 2 wire.
my home was built in the 1940's I am installing a bathroom ventilation fan so In the process of switching my single pole switch to a dbl gang switch I noticed that there is only one black wire and one white wire there's no wire for the power to go out?
You have a switch loop or leg currently installed (same thing I showed in the beginning of the video in the switch box. There's a couple ways to fix this but the easiest would be to pull in a new wire with a neutral in it. Your box as it stands only has 1 hot coming in and a feed going to the light. The other option would be to tap off the light junction box and run from that to the fan. Only downside is that the light and fan would both be controlled with the existing switch.
Hello! Awesome video, but I have a question. I want to install a wifi light switch in my place but I noticed my light switch box doesn't have a neutral wire, that is required to install the wifi light switch. Is it possible to add a neutral wire to that box? Or what can I do to be able to install the light switch I want?
Look at Lutron Caseta. It is the only wifi switch/dimmer I have found that doesn't require a neutral wire at the switch. Very easy to install and setup for wifi operation. Works with Alexa. The catch? They are a bit pricey (but not near as costly as an electrician) and require a hub.
From my understanding, if you want to use the Lutron Caseta with LED lights, you need a neutral for the LED drivers, at least that's what I gather from reading the manual.
Stephen Moore So basically just run a wire up on the neutral side from a nearby plug? I'm assuming all plugs have a neutral? I have the same situation where I want to install the Wemo WiFi dimmer switch, but the box doesn't have a neutral. Thanks in advance.
HowieDub There is no need for a neutral wire at the switch. I am controlling 17 LED's on four 8' tracks to light an art collection. Works as it should ; on, off, dimming, etc. through Alexa, Google home, or phone app.
I have an older decora light switch that looks like there's only 2 wires connected to the back of the switch: a Load and Line wire. Inside the box are 2 ground wires twisted together with a nut at the tip. And 2 neutral wires twisted together with a nut at the tip. I want to place a new decora switch but it requires me to connect the line, load, neutral, and ground wire to the actual decora light switch. my Q is: how do I now connect the 2 neutral wires, and the 2 ground wires to the back of the switch. Do I need to splice it or buy a ground and neutral wire connector addition? Thanks! Great video btw.
F C you can pigtail off the existing wire nuts to the new switch. A pigtail is just a short jumper wire. So instead of 2 wires under each wire nut, you'll now have 3. (3 neutrals and 3 grounds). Just work safe and smart. If you're unsure, get an electrician in. Thanks for the compliments, I appreciate it!
The bare equipment grounding conductors require a wire nut or some other type of connector not just the conductors twisted together. If someone opens the receptacle and doesn't know why the white conductor is spliced to the two black conductors they should hire an electrician.
I have a bedroom with a ceiling fan and lights. The lights are controlled by a wall switch which only has 1 romex cable with black, white and ground coming into it. The back is providing power and the white appears to be the switch leg to control the lights. There is no neutral wire, just the bare ground. The fan is controlled by a pull chain at the fan. I’m guessing they spliced the hots in the fan j-box with legs to the pull chain and the wall switch box (for the lights). My question is can I disconnect the bare ground in the switch box and the fan j-box and re-wire as a neutral to be able to install a wifi switch which requires a neutral? Also do you know if the wifi switch will work without a ground and is it safe? There is no way to pull a new neutral into this box and get it to the light.
zimsjeep what is it about recessed lighting that made you want to change? Is it for decorative purposes? Or is it a better lighting source having a recessed light come down from the ceiling?
Interesting, and useful to help me plan a smart dimmer installation in the UK (where we dont have neutrals in light switch circuits) BUT (and its a big BUT), the layout in this video is illegal in the UK, so any UK viewers, dont do this! Its basically taking power off the sockets to power a light; those should be on separate circuits in the UK. If a device in a socket trips the breaker, the lights go out, so you cant see what you’re doing to fix it. Also, if anyone wants to work on a light fitting and trips the breaker for the lights, they may be surprised when that light isnt off power (yes, they should check before touching, but people forget and thats how people get electrocuted).
Your almost right but some of what you said could cause people to panic unnecessary from the UK , yes doing like for like as per the video is not allowed in the UK , BUT if wired correctly lights CAN be taken off sockets , not ideal but still legal and within regulations (current - 18th edition wiring regulations).IF any doubt on any installation a qualified electrician should be called.
im a electrician very well prepared n properly done yes the electrician before should had reidentified the neutral but he did not. keep up good work n god bless
![ILLSLICK - KILLSHOT REMIX [FULL VERSION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RIK8RrqIAzE/mqdefault.jpg)
ALL: I've posted another video on my channel showing how I installed the extra wire in the wall that others have asked about below. Check it out here: th-cam.com/video/HME5amrYG5A/w-d-xo.html
Excellent! Clear, concise, no half hour story of your life.
Finally, a video that explained what I was doing wrong and how to fix it. I was trying to install a light fixture off of an existing switch, similar to your video, however, I had no idea that the switch had no neutral wire. After viewing your video, I went back into my garage and looked at the light that the switch currently feeds. Sure enough, it was an electrical outlet and the current light was nothing more than a light fixture plugged into the outlet. With this new knowledge and with some of the comments below, I'll take this information and try again. Thank you for the well done video.
Gabriel Sorry for the delayed response but thanks for the comment. Hope the job went well!
Beautiful video all the way through. I greatly appreciate the time you took to make this. I don't know how many days of my life you've given back to me by making this video
I've only watched the first five minutes of your video but you have already shown what I need to know so I can wire a setup to control some plug in shop lights in my pole barn. There was no way to hardwire these ones in without doing a really ugly job of it so I am doing the switch outlet approach. Every other video so far has no closeups that are good, no proper explanations, but yours is spot on. And I will make sure to mark the white wire with electrical tape. Thanks.
Good to hear, glad the video helped!
As a point of ease to be code approved in new runs from your panel to your switch box to what you want controlled by your switch. This keeps it neat and simple.
This is one of the best educational videos on how to find a neutral wire and basic wiring skills
Very well explained and visually documented. I have been looking for this exact information to allow me to install smart light switches that require a neutral.
I have looked at many videos and other websites for this information and nothing was as clear as this.
Thank you
Hi Allen, I am try to install a smart switch that requires a neutral as well. My current switch only have one black and white attached. So I want to know if you have any success installing the smart switch?
Thanks.
Dude! Finally a great video on how to modify a switch loop. Thank you so much. I need to do this with three of the rooms in my 60's rancher that had no center ceiling lights and have been looking for a good instructional all week. You are the best!!
Good stuff. I’m a chief engineer for a management company and these type of videos are great training tools. My only critique is designating the difference between single pole switches vs three way and four ways. If you mentioned this my apologies but I didn’t hear anything about that because the DIY guy will just grab whatever he sees and it will be wrong. Nevertheless thanks for sharing I just subbed.
Best I've seen, and I've watched a bunch of these vids. Explanation was fast, succinct, informative and fascinating. There is a name for people like you: Teacher.
Thank you buddy, appreciate it.
Thanks man. My house was old and had no neutral wire at the outlet switch. This is smart. Thank u. Im installing wifi dimmer switch.
Thank you!!
Had the identical issue with my light switch. Was just going to tie into a circuit from the attic, drop it down and then back up to the light I'll be adding. Then after watching your video duh, go into the power outlet and put that neutral back on to an actual neutral wire, problem solved thank you so much
Yeah, i had that moment too a couple times before I thought of what I showed in the video. Glad you got it figured out!
Thank you so much for this! I know it’s an old video, but I watched so many videos trying to trouble shoot why I couldn’t get the connections quite right for a new ceiling light and this was my exact wiring configuration! Thank thank thank you!
Very helpful video. Nearly my entire house was wired so that switches controlled outlets, because the only build-in lights were in the kitchen & bathroom. All other rooms relied a lamp to be plugged in. Not only do I want to install lights and such in the ceiling, but I want to use smart switches to be controlled by my Amazon Echoes. Those smart switches require a neutral wire present. The only thing I'll need to do different from what was in this video is to make a pigtail from the neutral wire grouping to connect to the smart switch.
Yes, I’ve found this video has done well due to the popularity of smart switches the past year or 2. Thanks for the comment!
Just what I was looking for. Been meaning to install some ceiling lighting in my kids' bedrooms, and came across this exact issue and wiring scheme. Thanks for your clear explanation and instructions.
Hard part is the magical step that led to the new Romex appearing in the box, without damaging the wall. Everything else was obvious. I was hoping for some guidance in threading the new cable through the wall, sigh.
Dan Swinehart sorry for the delayed response, I shot a video of the light install and never posted it, maybe I will because this question is coming up frequently. I cut a small hole in the wall near the ceiling. I then removed the existing switch and fed a fish tape through the spare hole in the top of the junction box up to the hole I cut in the wall. This is the least obtrusive way of doing this with minimal damage. Hope this helps you.
Fishing tape and a roller plate (it's a thing the shape of a single switch you can mount to the box, with metal roller wheels to prevent the cord from damaging the surrounding wall as you pull it through)
jedrokth yup, that’s the way to do it. I just posted a new video on my channel related to this.
Damn I said the exact same thing before seeing your comment lmao
Great job....
If it were me doing the job, I would have utilized acgreen wire nut.
I also would have changed out the receptacle and single pole switch with better quality devices. They had to be old.
You went through all that work, just update the devices to safer, better quality.....
Well done sir. This was exactly the video I needed. Going to tackle this project tomorrow. Hoping all goes well.
Excellent video that helped me with a ceiling fan install on a wall switch with no neutral. Same wiring setup as yours. Thank you.
That's great to hear. Thanks for the comment!
Great video. I wonder how many people blow themselves up each year trying to wire in switches when they have no clue what they are doing? Be CAREFUL guys, especially if you live in Europe or the UK, where the wires are Brown, Blue, and yellow and green :-) or Red, Black and Green if you're old school. We have 240 volts in the UK and it can KILL !!!
Thats why I mention "do this work at your own risk" and to hire an electrician if need be. People have their limitations, and its one of the reasons why I wouldn't hop in a cockpit and try to fly a plane . Thanks for the comment.
Wow. Thank you for doing this. Super clear explanation.
You’re welcome...Glad you liked the video!
Great video. My set up is very similar to yours. Light switch box had a hot white wire along with a hot black wire that controlled a single outlet on my wall.
I ran new wire Romex for a ceiling fan down to the switch box. Black, red, white and ground.
In switch box I have the power (white and black) tied into a pig tail leading into the switch. Loading out of the switch box is a pigtail that is tied to the fan light (black and red) running to the fan. The neutral wire in the new wire pulled has nothing to connect to so I believe the circuit cannot be completed. The power to the outlet however has been completed and is no longer reliant on the switch being flipped up to get power.
The difference I have is in my electrical outlet that was being controlled by the switch. I have on the gold side of the outlet a black and a red wire that are hot and two white wires that are not hot.
There are no extra white wires that have been pig tailed in the outlet box so I’m not sure how to get my neutral wire in the switch box to not have power anymore.
Any ideas?
Just what I needed! Awesome video
Thank you!!
Finally a video regarding this issue well explained
This looks fun, I’m about to try this I must have neutral wire for my WiFi switches!!!!✊💯🔥👌👀
Certain Lutron Caseta smart switches do not need a neutral wire - though you do need the Caseta hub.
You helped me extremely I was lost but now I'm found
Good stuff!
Excellent, thank you. This was so clear and to the point. Your online contribution is much appreciated.
Gr8 video! The only improvement I could suggest is a schematic or line drawing of what you were going to do so it is easier to visualize.
Great *
This is the best way to do it... *IF* you no longer want to control the outlet via the switch. Assuming there's no other choice but to run another wire to the box if you still WANT TO control the outlet from the switch.
Excellent video! So we’ll explained! Thank you!
Good presentation, but one problem.
When you connected the ground wires in the switch box you twisted one ground wire around the other.
Electrical inspectors will be looking for the green wirenuts to be present or they will fail the inspection.
The green wirenuts have a hole in the end for one ground wire to go all the way through and the other ground wire is connected inside the box.
Thank for the video. Just what I needed to find out. What if both wires are black?
Nice clean job! Thanks for sharing..
NEC 2017 require a neutral now. In all new installation. This due to many electronic devices that require a neutral. Because there was no neutral inside the box, the electrician would use the ground conductor. This way the NEC made this change. 12-2-2 or 14-2-2 is now being sold. No more switch loop in new switch box installation.
Robert Mattison Thanks for the info, good stuff!
This was fantastic! Exactly the issue I’m working with. thanks for the video.
Local codes here require green crimp sleeve on the bare copper grounding bundle. Also find it easier and neater to give the finished devise a one turn twist before placing into the box. The wires will then be neatly coiled up.
Yes, here too now as well. I added it after the video was filmed
Excellent instructions on this problem that I just came upon today, I do have one question if the switch works more than just one outlet like in a bedroom which outlet do you rewire the closest one to the switch?
Tip: your wire stripper has a hole just above the stripping section to bend the J hook onto the stripped wire for the terminal. No need for the needle nose pliers for that purpose
No need for wire strippers or needle nose. Linesman is all you need
Great video but not sure it will work with my set up. My outlet doesn’t have the hot wires that are capped off in your video. Instead only has the load wire and neutral wires. How do I get power back to the outlet if the load wire is turned into a neutral?
Thank you very much for the education
You’re welcome!!
My favorite part is where the new romex cable magically shows up inside the switch box. Where can I purchase the magic wand to do that?
Watch the other video on my channel showing how it was installed...best part, it’s free!
Straight to the point. Nice video
Paul Mauricio Thank you
Good post. NOT pigtailing the neutral is a code violation and potentially harmful to equipment and a fire hazard.
Yes, it's annoying to only find a switched live conductor has been run to a wall box. Nice exlaination.
In MA you don’t need to identify the neutral , about a green wire nut for the ground wire, and if you are installing light fixtures you need to replace the breaker too AF
Extremely helpful, can’t thank you enough!
We can generate a neutral wire by No neutral wire power supply kit from savekey.
I HATE the turn power to outlet..... I need to rewire mine too. Thank You for show how to fix it.
So, only switches have the potential to not have a neutral? But outlets will always have a neutral?
@fixitwitzim - Is there a similar way to install standard smart three-way switches in a box where the electrician used the neutral from the breaker box as a traveler?
I have a three-way switch with the Neutrals in the box, but this is the load switch (shorts the circuit, when I connect the Neutral wire to the switch), and the line switch uses the Neutral wire as one of the Travelers! The line switch is configured in a two-gang box with another three-way switch (I would like to replace that one, too). Can I pig-tail the Line (or Neutral) wire from the adjacent switch to the Neutral for the smart switch? Thanks.
Great video! Extremely helpful. I'm looking to convert my 3-way switch setup to a smart config but I only have a neutral on one switch end. I'm trying to avoid using a bridge and still have it compatible with Alexa and Google. I know a bridge can support many devices but because of the size of the house, I am trying to avoid it if possible as well as avoid running a new wire in the wall. Any ideas?
It's worth mentioning that while rewiring the outlet, you created a dangerous setup in the switch box - because the load and the line were newly connected there. If the switch was in the ON position and someone decided to turn the breaker on to test the outlet, there would be some fireworks. For peace of mind, it would have been much safer to disconnect the switch *before* changing the load wire to neutral in the outlet.
James Watson Working by myself in an empty house I wasn't too worried about that but I see where you're coming from. Thanks for the comment brother!
Safety standards are to put tape over the breaker if not working alone in a house. That should be recognized as not normal by most. Also let others in the house know you have turned off a breaker. Also off and tripped at different physically at the breaker.
Wow great video
The answer seems obvious but it doesn't look like there's really a way to add a neutral wire in the switch box, but keep the outlet being switched (not changing to a permanently installed fixture) without snaking a new wire up to the switch unfortunately. I'm trying to add a smart dimmer switch to control a plugged in lamp and have the same wiring situation as the beginning of the video.
Daniel Finnegan you’ll need to add a wire. Others have asked this and I’ll be posting a video soon showing how I did that. On a side not, you should never add a dimmer to control an outlet. Too many things can go wrong if someone plugs another device into it besides the lamp you want to control. You can purchase a dimmable bulb that is controlled over wifi which might be the better option for your situation
@@fixitwithzim thanks for the response.
Thanks for a great explanation and clean install.
Nice video ,thanks!!!
I have similar issue. My switch control small bathroom fan. The power source come into the fan first. The switch has only 1 romex 14/2 come into the box. I have a bare copper ground connect to the switch, a back wire constant power supply connect to brass screw and a white (not neutral) connect to other brass screw on the switch to return the power back to the fan. Now, I like to add an outlet right below the switch but I dont have a neutral wire. What is the best way resolve this issue? Thanks in advance Zim
how did you get the new white wire going to the ceiling light in place? That's the hard part that I don't understand how to do.
Tim Yorty I shot a video of the light install and never posted it, maybe I will because this question is coming up frequently. I cut a small hole in the wall near the ceiling. I then removed the existing switch and fed a fish tape through the spare hole in the top of the junction box up to the hole I cut in the wall. This is the least obtrusive way of doing this with minimal damage. Hope this helps you.
Nice job...crystal clear!
Funny. That's the stupidest video ever seen
@@gregberban9273 You need experience to understand. That was just a little over your head.
@@sawhorse9820 master electrician 40yrs experience sure I do
@@gregberban9273 Ooops, then I'm sure your expertise is over my head ;-)
Hey man this video helped me a ton thank you very very much
Excellent, Very clear details. Thanks
How did you know that the blue wire was supposed to be connected to the bare ground wire?
I have seen someone even install an outlet with just the hot and ground from the switch box as they are very close to each other !!! Although the outlet appears to work, that's a NO NO.
Nice work with those wires
Elena Gilbert thanks!
Thank you for the video. I have the same issue with mine. I don't know much about wiring and codes so I will double check with an electrician regarding the ground screw to a plastic box? All of the receptacle and switch boxes in my house are plastics. I wonder if they're not to code since I don't see any ground screws inside. Any who, thank you though.
Alex Nguyen Ground screw to a plastic j box is not necessary. You should have a ground screw however to the device (switch, outlet, light, etc). And yes, if you're not familiar with this type of work, definitely contact an electrician. Thanks for the comment!
The outlet was switched, now is always on. Makes it easier when you can lose functionality... Otherwise would have needed yet another romex between switch and outlet.
Hello. Great great video. I’m trying to figure out how to add a neutral wire to a switch box from a light fixture. Our house in 98 years old and unfortunately does not have any neutral wires. And I cannot do your method in video because there isn’t an electrical outlet on the side of the room I’m working on.
I want to install a smart switch for my kitchen and dining room. I’ve read you can add a neutral by running a wire directly from light fixture (chandelier) back to the switch box. Is this accurate? If so, do you have any videos that may cover this, or which terminal/screw on light fixture would be used for the neutral out? Thank you again for your video and your help (if possible).
Sounds like you have power coming into your light fixture junction box and they ran a single piece of wire from that box to your switch box to crest a switched leg. These actually aren’t allowed in most places anymore due to the inception of smart switches and devices. Check the link in the description of this video or it might be in the pinned comment. It’s some additional tips for running new wires in existing walls. Hope this helps
good video, in my case sadly the switch without the neutral goes to a light so I believe I Need to run another wire to the light.
Matt neutral will be at ur fixture
The hardest part would have been to run that new wire down into an existing box. How do you fish that ? lol Sometimes it's really hard to remove the box. Esp if its nailed in.
I have another video on my channel showing how I ran it, not all that difficult and with minor damage to the drywall
I like it, however, when you speeded up the video on the receptical, I could only count three black wires and three white wires going into the wire nut. You said four, but I lost the logic of the circuit at that point.
Harry McMackin the 4th wire is the pigtail from the wire nut to the outlet. Hope this helps
So, what if I’m installing a ceiling fan and the switch already has a neutral in the box? The switch controls an outlet so i need to use your method to rewire the outlet I’m assuming.
SAME. Idk if it’s any different or if it’s the same procedure!
Although I believe it a good practice to re-identify the white conductor used in the switch, I do not believe that it is a violation of NEC to install as in the video.
Reference NEC 2017 310.110(C) This references you to 210.5(C) for branch circuits.
It seems that re-identification of the conductors is required when there is more than one nominal voltage system. Residential has only 120 volts to ground, therefore re-identification is not required.
As I said, I would do it if I were doing the install.
Thanks for the info!
Excellent video and explanation of why black tape or marking should always be added. However, i cringed when You cut excess wire off. I never do that since i came across to many jobs that had wires way too short.
rms59 Thanks for the compliments. When we I trim the wiring in a j box, i make sure to leave enough for future work. The pinky and thumb trick which I'm sure you know is what I use to gauge the length of my stub outs. I like to trim all the conductors to the same length for ease of install
What's the thumb and pinky trick? stubs should be as long as the distance from thumb to pinky?
@@n5yiz I'm guessing that's what he means. When I was helping my electrician wire our house, he told me to put my middle fingertip on the wall above the outlet and to extend my thumb all the way out. Pull the wires out of the box (this was right after the drywall was installed, so the wires were still long) and snip them off at the end of your thumb. This gives you roughly six inches of slack, while not totally crowding the interior of the box.
@@jossimbyr Thanks...I'll have to remember that trick.
If I have 1 black/white/red wire going to a one way switch is my white not a neutral?
Wow ! You are really quick !
Farmer Dave My wife tells me that all the time
What type of spare wires did you use with to pigtail the hot and neutral in the outlet? If I have to buy a spare wire for that purpose, is there a range of guages that I can get from or does it have to be a particular guages or type?
I have a Smart switch with Neutral wire option, but I dont have neutral wire in my Electrical system at Home. How do I connect my Switch in this case?
The video is great if I want to add a device that the switch can control by bypassing the plug. In my case, I just want to add a wi-fi switch to control the plug. I need a neutral wire? It looks like my only hope is to run a neutral wire from the plug to the switch. That sucks.
Great Idea! However, the room has no ground. So I guess I'm screwed. But I could do it in parts of the house that does have a ground.
can you do this same video wiring a smart dimmer instead?????
Yes, same type of idea if you need a neutral.
This was extremely helpful. Thanks!
You’re welcome, glad the video helped!
Awesome video I did bought my house New on 2005 and this freaking electrician did the same thing, I don't know how did pass inspection
Question- my dining room has neutral wires and has a smart dimmer installed. RIGHT behind it on the other side of the wall there's the kitchen light switch box, but no neutral. Can I pull the dining room neutral through the back to supply neutrals for the kitchen light switch? Just add a short white colored wire between them? Thanks!
I know this is a ridiculously late response but only do that if the kitchen and dining room are on the same breaker
I follow all the steps and I get it to work in the area I am working on, but I cause another breaker to trip! Any suggestions for a solution to that?
does the outlet turns on when the dimmer switch on or does outlet stay on all the time?
Great video..
Thank you!
Good video
So I bought a smart light switch and found out it requires a neutral wire. I only have two wires leading to my switch. Not sure if I could rewire it like you did in the plug or would I have to pull new wires to the switch and ceiling fan?
Sounds like you have a switch loop like my video shows. You’ll need to add an additional wire. I have another video on my channel with some helpful tips on how to do that. Check the video description on this one for it.
Thank you for this video, like others I want to add a smart switch to control an old chandelier. In the switch box there is an early 2000’s Lutron dinner and only 2 wires a black and a purple. I’m assuming the black is the line and the purple is the load going to the fixture. Is it possible that the light fixture had the neutral wired directly and I can split off that connected via wire nut to run a neutral wire to the switch box?
hey, could you reply here when you found the answer? same situation here.
So after you add the light, the plug will not be control by the switch any more? it will have 120v all the time at the plug?
I try to add smart switch but it require white neutral wire. My switch only come with 2 wire.
Yes, the outlet will be powered all the time and not controlled via the switch
Thank you so much really helpful video
Mike M You're welcome, thanks for taking the time to comment
Can u do the same for a ceiling fan?
my home was built in the 1940's I am installing a bathroom ventilation fan so In the process of switching my single pole switch to a dbl gang switch I noticed that there is only one black wire and one white wire there's no wire for the power to go out?
You have a switch loop or leg currently installed (same thing I showed in the beginning of the video in the switch box. There's a couple ways to fix this but the easiest would be to pull in a new wire with a neutral in it. Your box as it stands only has 1 hot coming in and a feed going to the light. The other option would be to tap off the light junction box and run from that to the fan. Only downside is that the light and fan would both be controlled with the existing switch.
Hello! Awesome video, but I have a question. I want to install a wifi light switch in my place but I noticed my light switch box doesn't have a neutral wire, that is required to install the wifi light switch. Is it possible to add a neutral wire to that box? Or what can I do to be able to install the light switch I want?
You can add a neutral wire the same way he did. Neutral wires are generally used for recessed lighting. Try to go from a nearby wall outlet.
Look at Lutron Caseta. It is the only wifi switch/dimmer I have found that doesn't require a neutral wire at the switch. Very easy to install and setup for wifi operation. Works with Alexa. The catch? They are a bit pricey (but not near as costly as an electrician) and require a hub.
From my understanding, if you want to use the Lutron Caseta with LED lights, you need a neutral for the LED drivers, at least that's what I gather from reading the manual.
Stephen Moore So basically just run a wire up on the neutral side from a nearby plug? I'm assuming all plugs have a neutral? I have the same situation where I want to install the Wemo WiFi dimmer switch, but the box doesn't have a neutral. Thanks in advance.
HowieDub There is no need for a neutral wire at the switch. I am controlling 17 LED's on four 8' tracks to light an art collection. Works as it should ; on, off, dimming, etc. through Alexa, Google home, or phone app.
I have an older decora light switch that looks like there's only 2 wires connected to the back of the switch: a Load and Line wire. Inside the box are 2 ground wires twisted together with a nut at the tip. And 2 neutral wires twisted together with a nut at the tip. I want to place a new decora switch but it requires me to connect the line, load, neutral, and ground wire to the actual decora light switch. my Q is: how do I now connect the 2 neutral wires, and the 2 ground wires to the back of the switch. Do I need to splice it or buy a ground and neutral wire connector addition? Thanks! Great video btw.
F C you can pigtail off the existing wire nuts to the new switch. A pigtail is just a short jumper wire. So instead of 2 wires under each wire nut, you'll now have 3. (3 neutrals and 3 grounds). Just work safe and smart. If you're unsure, get an electrician in. Thanks for the compliments, I appreciate it!
The bare equipment grounding conductors require a wire nut or some other type of connector not just the conductors twisted together. If someone opens the receptacle and doesn't know why the white conductor is spliced to the two black conductors they should hire an electrician.
Thanks for the comment, have a great day!
I have a bedroom with a ceiling fan and lights. The lights are controlled by a wall switch which only has 1 romex cable with black, white and ground coming into it. The back is providing power and the white appears to be the switch leg to control the lights. There is no neutral wire, just the bare ground.
The fan is controlled by a pull chain at the fan. I’m guessing they spliced the hots in the fan j-box with legs to the pull chain and the wall switch box (for the lights). My question is can I disconnect the bare ground in the switch box and the fan j-box and re-wire as a neutral to be able to install a wifi switch which requires a neutral? Also do you know if the wifi switch will work without a ground and is it safe?
There is no way to pull a new neutral into this box and get it to the light.
If you crawl in the attic you can.
So why did you decide to do this when you have a switched receptacle that already works perfectly?
thecollinzboy I installed recessed lighting and no longer needed a switched outlet
zimsjeep what is it about recessed lighting that made you want to change? Is it for decorative purposes? Or is it a better lighting source having a recessed light come down from the ceiling?
Interesting, and useful to help me plan a smart dimmer installation in the UK (where we dont have neutrals in light switch circuits) BUT (and its a big BUT), the layout in this video is illegal in the UK, so any UK viewers, dont do this! Its basically taking power off the sockets to power a light; those should be on separate circuits in the UK. If a device in a socket trips the breaker, the lights go out, so you cant see what you’re doing to fix it. Also, if anyone wants to work on a light fitting and trips the breaker for the lights, they may be surprised when that light isnt off power (yes, they should check before touching, but people forget and thats how people get electrocuted).
Your almost right but some of what you said could cause people to panic unnecessary from the UK , yes doing like for like as per the video is not allowed in the UK , BUT if wired correctly lights CAN be taken off sockets , not ideal but still legal and within regulations (current - 18th edition wiring regulations).IF any doubt on any installation a qualified electrician should be called.
im a electrician very well prepared n properly done yes the electrician before should had reidentified the neutral but he did not. keep up good work n god bless
panama1965 Thanks a lot for the comment and kind words. Appreciate it!
Awesome video! Thank you.
Thank you!