When Subway was a sponsor for The Hunger Games: Catching Fire, I went into one of their stores and asked if I could take home the life-size cardboard standee of Katniss Everdeen when they were done with it. The manager said "sure," and for the rest of my teen years, cardboard Katniss with the Subway logo stood guard in my bedroom
still haven't gotten over the fact that the bread boy was named peeta like his dad just liked bread so much he named his son after some bread and then spelled it peeta instead of pita to cover his tracks
@@-topic9506 In Spanish pita is the imperative of the verb "pitar" which means to use a whistle or a car horn, so in my country we would have jokes of Peeta as a football referee or driving a car, yeah...
“Wait, guys, we did this one already. It’s The Hunger Games!” “No Jon, it’s not The Hunger Games.” “It’s not? Are you sure? Because it looks and sounds exactly like The Hunger Games.” “Yeah, there’s no fight to the death in this one.” “So… it’s the same movie, but without the actual games? That sounds horrible.”
Always love it when grimm dystopias come up with their bullshit words to describe normal things in the world. I'm not sure if it is better or worse when they use normal words for them but capitalize them and give them a "The". Like in Maze Runner. "We call it The Changing". "You will never survive The Scorch!" "We call them greavers!"
"If you can tell where the story is going, then the story did its job" is such an important quote especially in this time of writers ruining stories just so they can say they outsmarted the audience
Hardcore disagree. If I know where the story ends, then a good chunk of enjoyment is gone. Not all of it, but I want stories to take me to new places. Originality isn't the problem, dumb ideas are.
@@NerdilyDone I don't know which youtuber gave you brainrot but you as the reader recognizing the signs and foreshadowing the writer gives you to predict how the end could go and you actually guessing right is in fact not a bad thing
My favorite thing about Divergent is that it isn’t the *whole world* that’s doing the society-based-on-buzzfeed-personality-results thing. It’s just Chicago and I think a few other places.
I am always confused and curious about what the rest of the world is up to in these localized dystopian governments. Like, what are other nations doing outside North America? Is Panem in trade relations with them? Is it all a wasteland out there? If San Angeles from "Demolition Man" has eschewed all forms of violence, are there any hostile states outside who would seize the opportunity to invade? Is WCKD the only organization on the entire planet interested in solving the Scorch with mazes? Are there others? Brave New World or 1984 at least gave a short explanation that other places are equally fucked up.
When I first heard of divergent I thought the factions were ways to control people by forcing them to pick a life style and personality to maintain and mellow out humans and make them fear being anyone else so it was easier for the government to control them. I really thought the author was going with some symbolism of people being forced to conform to their families or societies idea of a perfect person and trying to find themselves in a group of people by sticking with one way to live. I didn’t think these people *actually* only had one personality trait
@GrantKP And the Rebels look all gorgeous, with clean faces and trimmed hair, are all well-fed and somehow able to go head to head with the evil government troops despite fighting a guerilla war with pathetic weapons and having to live in the wild.
I will say that I think the ending of Hunger Games is interesting in that while the society gets a happy ending, it isn't a happy ending for Katniss, at least not entirely. She never really recovers from her trauma even though her and Peeta get together and have children. I think it is a nice commentary on how being the person to spark change doesn't mean happiness is guaranteed.
This is a good point. In a way, I think The Hunger Games' ending went the same route as Lord of The Rings - Frodo saved society, but was broken afterwards.
I REALLY appreciate that throughout all the books Katniss is not okay. It's not HORRIBLE TRAUMA "I'm perfectly fine and nothing is different. This has barely had an effect on me." THG isn't perfect, but I honestly think the series really is great, especially for YA novels dealing with something so traumatizing.
this. i remember reading the hunger games series as a traumatized 12 year old who wanted to change the world- the ending really sat with me. i remember pondering it for months after reading the series
@@iloveyourunclebob so true! We often assume that after heroes fight a war, they all live happily ever after and that's how it's supposed to be. I've read so many personal stories of people who have fought in wars and even though they won and were hailed as heroes, their personal lives ended up a mess due to the trauma of what they experienced. Obviously, The Hunger Games is fiction, but I think that Katniss can still be looked at as an example that it's okay to not be completely okay in the end and it's true that there really are no total winners in war
You didn’t mention ‘The Selection’ which had this descriptor on the back; “Was your favorite part of hunger games the part where katniss got makeovers? Do you love The Bachelor? Then this book is for you.”
@@nm9688 “because if *I* were in her position, I’d love a cool makeover” said any aggressively self-inserting reader I love the ‘uncomfortable makeover’ scenes in Miss Congeniality and Princess Diaries but I feel like that’s what hunger games is playing off of. Those scenes were meant to be comically uncomfortable. But the “underlying truth” that hunger games reveals is that they’re being forced to look less like themselves to become a marketable product for others who view the madeover person as less than human
@@SarahZ hey there is a ton of spam in the comments and some phishing going on. I would disable links in the comments for right now, if you are worried about it
I love that video so damn much, it lives in my soul. Rue was so incredibly sweet, and the actor who played her seems so wonderful in her interviews, it still lingers with me how hard that must have been on a fucking *14 year old child* 😭. Ugh, tears, man.
I remember back in 2011, I dressed as Katniss for halloween and walked around with my bow & a quiver i made myself-proud as could be-and went trick or treating only for absolutely no one to know who the fuck I was (a unsurprisingly reoccurring, but still disappointing feature of my childhood) and all I would do was sigh and say "you'll know in march :(" while every adult looked in utter bewilderment at my mother as she tried to politely explain my disappointment. There was one (1) lady at the end of the night who was like oh! you're that girl! from the book my niece likes! who made my fucking day tho.
I dressed up as hunger games Summer from Rick and Morty once. That character had like, 3 minutes of screentime. No one fucking knew who I was, but the outfit rocked anyways
The Divergent series was good for exactly one thing The line from the movie where some guy is like "You won't shoot me" to the protagonist and she literally says "Why does everyone keep saying that??" and shoots him.
@@lordoftheducks332 It's worth it to look up the "you won't shoot me" scenes from that movie, they're VERY good and the most iconic parts of otherwise unremarkable movies
I went to visit Chicago and now watching the movies I'm like trying to identify landmarks 😂 Chicago is really cool. The natural history museum is my favorite museum I've ever seen and also I want more of the pizza. Congratulations your hometown has ruined all pizza for me
Yeah, it kind of seems like the main audience for these "Teen Dystopias" grew up and realized that they were already in an adult dystopia. That's the kind of hope killer which makes stories of change and justice seem to ring hollow.
@@ravenward626 this is what ive been thinking. i do wish it would come back a bit since i feel there’s still more for us to talk about and touch on, especially in a more diverse lens. also, dystopia is just plan interesting to me 😔
What consistently blows my mind is that, back when The Hunger Games was so big, people were **begging** for a Hunger Games video game - not one about the movies or books in terms of story, but just the gameplay of being in a Hunger Games arena and fighting to win. At a period where tie-in games were dead I can understand why they didn’t do it, but this is a series that was perfectly built for anthologies, video games, etc. Then Battle Royale games became the biggest genre on earth, and I hope the rights holders were kicking themselves for missing the biggest open net on earth.
This confused me too. Death matches in closed off arenas were already a big thing in multiplayer games since the first game ever gamed. You also had a wave of games around that time where bow and arrow was suddenly the primary weapon. And then battle royale games exploded. Yet no one ever thought to make an official Hunger Games Game.
There was a book I really liked in high school about a dystopia where families can only have a limited number of children. The first book was about a young boy was wasn’t legally supposed to exist, and his family secretly keeps him hidden. Then he realizes the neighbors have a hidden daughter, they become friends, and she makes him braver to sneak outside sometimes. At the end, she goes to a protest that was organized online, one where many hidden children said they’d show up to make a stand. The boy doesn’t go, and later finds out that most people didn’t turn out, and those who did were gunned down. I don’t think I’d ever read and enjoyed anything with a downer ending before. It felt poetic, and it kinda felt real. I still really love dystopias, and I’m not totally sure why.
Man. I'll never understand that logic of making kids illegal. Ik it was fiction but still I don't see a reason they'd do that like idc how high the population is just absolutely no.
Wow thanks for dredging that up for me. Had a few of these Dystopian YA novels kicking around while listening to this that I could not remember the names of but can remember the plots. Thanks for helping with this one
She didn’t even mention the worst part about the hanging tree song. In the books it the lyrics were “Wear a necklace of rope, side by side with me” but District 13 actually censors that part of the song and replaces it with “necklace of hope”. By changing this single lyric the song becomes about two lovers running away together while in the original version it is clear that person A is telling person B to commit suicide because that’s the only way they can be free. They did this because they didn’t want the real grim reality of the story to set in, they didn’t want people to realize what the song was actually about, they just wanted a more clean “inspiring” anthem for their revolution regardless of if it was accurate. And by doing that they basically erased the reason why that song was seen as a revolutionary anthem to begin with. It was supposed to be one of the first hints about District 13 being almost as corrupt and oppressive as the Capitol. In the movie and dance remix the lyrics go “Wear a necklace of hope”… If that’s not a perfect metaphor I don’t know what is.
I forgot about this and it's such a good detail. I never actually realised that the film uses District 13's censored lyrics; life really does imitate art.
Except the movie DOES mention Necklace of rope The guy that made it says "The lyric was originally a Necklace of rope, i had it changed to Necklace of hope" and procedees to explain why, its not a small scene you miss, its completley explained
As someone who never read Hunger Games but new the song, I always thought “necklace of hope” didn’t quite fit with the rest of the song. Now I know why
There's nothing more half-assed about the Hunger Games movies than the fact that they saw the book covers, with their idiosyncratic lettering, and decided to scrap it and go with Bank Gothic on all the posters
Never forget when I read Allegiant immediately after it came out and complained about the ending to my mom, who then went to the hospital where she worked as a nurse, saw a patient reading it, and asked them “is that the one where the main character dies at the end?” Sorry, to whoever that was
That was probably a core memory for that kid lol. Being in the hospital and getting the the biggest spoiler ever about a book series that inspired a lot of emotional attachment 😭
i am literally on my hands and knees crying and begging every author and aspiring author to stop naming their books "a noun of noun and noun." please. my children are starving
Hey, for a fun secondary option, you can now just flip open a dictionary to a random page, select a word at random, and name your book “Noun.” Really adds a little spice!!
Man, internet people call any boisterous annoying kids "theater kids" but we are a VERY SPECIFIC kind of annoying! Loudly performing physical feats to show off to everyone you think you're better than makes you a jock! A JOCK!
I think something that would've made Divergent more interesting would've been if it was revealed that *everyone* was divergent, and the government was just lying and telling everyone that they belonged to an arbitrary category that made them easier to control. That way Tris wouldn't be ~special~, and it would be a bit more resonant that the government created categories that people needed to conform into for social acceptance, since that actually *is* a problem, as your co-writer pointed out!
absolutely. this is such an obvious twist that would tie everything up into a well-themed, clean finale as the characters come to terms with themself and realize their common opponent unbelievable the author missed this
@@boxorak it’s like something that Snow would have suggested in The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes to make the games more “engaging”. Straight-up child murder not going it for you? Try some of this special Hunger Games branded makeup :)!
I feel like you learn everything you need to know about the disconnect between YA dystopia as a literary genre and as a pop cultural phenomenon by comparing the actual text of "The Hunger Games" with the marketing for the movies and the deluge of knock-offs that didn't have anything to actually say with their dystopia (I'm looking at you, Divergent). "The Hunger Games" criticizes everything from the exploitation of the working poor, the sexualization of teens for mass-consumption, the nature of propaganda and the illusion of equal risk (one ticket for everyone, except you can put in more tickets for much-needed rations). It also contains strikingly realistic portrayals of depression and PTSD, among other things. The movies had a tie-in website where you took quizzes like "what's your district," like it was a "What's your ATLA element" or "What's your Hogwarts house?" and not "are you a malnourished agricultural laborer or a member of the petty bourgeoisie?"
Remember when they turned The Hanging Tree into like, an upbeat pop song??? And then played it on the radio? Or when they made tie-in makeup products literally called the Capitol Beauty Collection??? The marketing for the movies was absolutely wild, it genuinely feels like a parody of itself Edit: these are literally mentioned in the video, I forgor 💀
god, yes, the dissonance between the actual content of the books and the marketing of the films was WILD. i was a bit outside the intended age range for the novels when they came out- i think i read the first book when i was about 19-20, and was 23 when the first film was released- which i think made me a little more able to notice that mismatch in real time, not just in retrospect, and i remember being startled by it back then too. truly bleak stuff
@@onibeebee i spent all of allegiant enraged at how everyone was so fucking dumb except tris and then mad at myself for wasting 30 bucks and 3 days of my life on that stupid book.
Wildly off topic but every time anyone mentions Josh Hucherson I chuckle because I think of Trapped in a island with Josh Hucherson. What a literary work of art.
oh 100%, i'm surprised this doesn't have more likes, the venn diagram for sarah and jenny is a circle (For the record I posted this reply when the OP had 22 likes)
The Hunger Games love triangle is actually pretty cleverly written, but the marketing exaggerated it to the point of irony. It has so much more depth than just "which boy will this girl pick in the end???" (which once again manages to speak on the entertainment we consume as an audience). Katniss never cared for romance, but the Peeta vs Gale debate has more to do with choosing ideals and morality. Peeta represents peace, mercy and kindness, whereas Gale is all about the rebellion and doing what "has" to be done in a war. For Peeta, killing is personal and something that should always be avoided. Gale on the other hand is a hunter, and he mainly hunts by laying traps (unlike Katniss who has to look her prey in the eye every time she takes a life), therefore making the act of killing impersonal - but necessary to sustain himself and his family. The love triangle ties into other themes as well, like class differences. Peeta is a merchant's child and Gale is from the seam. Katniss thinks Peeta's and her life were worlds apart. She demonstrates this through her internal monologue about her parents - Katniss’s mother made a financial sacrifice when she decided to marry Katniss’s father. It was a decision that made her family abscond her, and countless people know this. Katniss doesn't think highly enough of herself to believe that she alone would be enough to make someone like Peeta risk abandoning what she views as a comfortable town life - therefore Peeta literally does not cross her mind as a romantic interest, even though she has subconsciously taken notice of him; "apparently, I have not been as oblivious to him as I imagined, either. The flour. The wrestling. I have kept track of the boy with the bread." So there might have been feelings that she stored away as unreachable due to the circumstance of their class difference. In the first games, Katniss does not allow herself to recognize any potential feelings because doing so would put her in severe emotional danger. If Peeta matters to her, his death will be tragic, and Katniss will have to mourn him. Katniss values kindness above all else. Katniss love Prim because of her everlasting and persistent kindness and throughout training Katniss is constantly attempting to determine if Peeta is kind because she is terrified of the fact that he might be. This is why Katniss distances herself from Peeta, and the very second she is given the chance for both of them to go home, she involuntarily screams his name. And while she does play up the romance to an audience she despises, she also has genuine moments with him. Like the kiss that stirs her chest and "makes her want another one". After the two-victor rule is revoked, Katniss knows she would never recover if she impeded not making it out together. “You are not going to leave me alone here’ I say, because if he dies, I’ll never go home. Not really. I'll spend the rest of my life in the arena trying to think my way out.” She's willing to gamble her life, even if her gamble means dying, because at least she would no longer be playing the Capitol's game anymore. This is exactly what Peeta said to Katniss the night before entering the arena, and Katniss dismissed it because she promised to win for Prim. But now, she's one step away from victory and despite all, willing to die with Peeta. Because it would be on THEIR terms. Her terms. This is what starts the rebellion. Things get complicated when they win because now she HAS to love Peeta by the demands of the Capitol and Snow, which she resents. And on top of this, she's confused because she never expected any type of future with someone like Peeta, and scared to death of the potential consequences of it: ”It’s no good loving me because I’m never going to get married anyway. And he’d end up hating me later instead of sooner. That if I do have feelings for him it doesn’t matter because I will never be able to afford the kind of love that leads to a family, to children. And how can he? After all we’ve been through? I also want to tell him how much I already miss him but that wouldn’t be fair on my part." I personally believe Katniss unknowingly loved Peeta by the second book, or was at the very least starting to fall for him. My girl is an unreliable narrator, dense, young, insecure, and traumatized as fuck, but she describes a "longing" and "hunger" for him. Heck, she is even filled with a "brief moment of happiness" when dreaming of Peeta's child playing in a future with no games. Which is both foreshadowing as well as a glimpse into her real feelings. So in a way, her "yearning" for Peeta is a yearning for peace as well as developing love. (Side note, but I also find it funny how she cannot imagine herself ever having kids with Gale, but felt "empowered" when Peeta dropped the fake ass baby bomb lmao). Her "feelings" for Gale on the other hand are all about the expectations of District 12, her home, the woods, and the girl she was before the games. This is why she talks about a future with Gale as obvious and something she ultimately "could" want if they ran away together, even if she doesn't like him romantically at the moment. She can still "learn" to love him. She wants to love Gale for the same reason she wants to be the girl she was before the games. "I wish Peeta were here to hold me, until I remember I'm not supposed to wish that anymore. I have chosen Gale and the rebellion, and a future with Peeta is the Capitol's design, not mine." So the love triangle is ALSO about Katniss navigating trauma and freedom. There is also the symbolism between bread and hunger. Panem ("panem et circenses" - bread and circuses. Meaning to generate public approval and create distraction from bad governance by satisfying 2 of the most trivial requirements of the population - food (bread) and entertainment (circuses). Panem's citizens focus on watching the Games to see who will win, thereby earning food for their district.) There is also the connection between Peeta - "this boy, Peeta Mellark, and the bread that gave me hope", and marriage (the "toasting" ceremony - toasting bread as a form of shared love ties in to Peeta throwing Katniss the burnt bread). As much as we love to focus on the "games" part of The Hunger Games, "hunger" is equally - if not more - important. For Katniss, hunger is something that she constantly wants to forget. She spent her whole life growing up hungry, and whereas Gale and Katniss were forced to hunt, Peeta bakes - a "coming together" of ingredients. During the Games, Rue’s district sends Katniss a loaf of bread to signal their appreciation for her treatment of Rue. This unprecedented demonstration of solidarity between districts is a threat to the order of the Capitol, which relies on division of the districts in order to maintain control. Choosing Gale would be Katniss choosing district 12 and revenge. An endless cycle of violence (that ultimately killed her sister, the girl she lived for). We see Katniss reject this way of thinking by killing Coin and ultimately sparing capitol children from participating in a new set of games. Choosing Peeta is choosing Panem as whole, Capitol and districts alike. United under mercy and kindness. It’s a future in which she can allow herself to have kids, a future where she can DARE to love her new Prims and Peetas after having lived a traumatizing childhood in constant fear of them being taken away from her. It’s Katniss satisfying her own hunger by sharing bread (love) with other people. It’s Katniss moving on from merely ”surviving” in order to protect innocent Primroses in a world impossible for them to grow, to truly LIVE for herself by putting her heart on the line and choosing to plant seeds in a world Prim deserved to have lived in. All in all, the love triangle is super complex and adds to the themes and story of the novels, even though the "romance" part is rather uninteresting. Especially because Gale was never an option if we are talking actual romance, or even the thematically ""correct"" choice.
It's intresting to think that she loved peeta but refused to acknowledge it and felt like she should love gale but didn't. It was like she wanted to defy everything she was supposed to feel including her feelings. I could also see it as her not fully recognizing her feelings because they were never important in keeping her or her family alive but hunger was. So her being "hungry" for peeta is just her only being able to identify her emotions that way because she's emotionally stunted.
hm, when Gale was injured in the books and Katness would not leave his side at the kitchen table despite hurting Peeta over and over and she knew it, to me as a reader she was more into Gail at that point - probably why they were dating - and not like a brother/cousin. Still some interesting analogies in your post.
i read the “barcode tattoo” series around middle school and the big twist was that the main girl was a bird hybrid and the catalyst for her realizing this was remembering how her mom used to sing “fly away” by nelly furtado and looking back it was. yeah
I read it in middle school too and I completely forgot this twist. As in, I literally can't remember it even after reading about it now. I guess it was so ridiculous that I blocked it out.
From the short description, I thought that it would technically be possible to actually make a decent book out of that idea. I'm not surprised to hear that that didn't happen.
Chicago in fiction: Dear God, the government has taken control, we fear for our lives. Chicago in the real world near future: Oh god, the pizzas now have multiple deep dish layers, we fear for our lives.
I'll always hate how Mockingjay was split into two movies. Collins wrote all of the books with the same structure she used with writing television with a clear 3 act structure and nine chapters in each act (hell she makes this even clearer by purposefully putting in the part breaks). I honestly think that's part of the reason why the first two movies were able to be adapted well because it already had a strong structure to them that made it easier to adapt.
Yes!! She literally couldnt have made it easier for screenwriters! And they STILL split it into two because thats what Harry Potter did and it made them good money
i would agree with you if i didn't like both films, but i did, and think that it greatly benefitted the relationships and character interplay. i think the same of dune. it ends on me opening my mouth for another bite, i'm not still chewing but at the same time i'm not full. the writing was sooooooo glaringly obviously made for a paint by numbers adaptation though, like maze runner hahaha.
@@witchfynder_finder a lot of it is philosophical musings, and it's the main reason why it's been so hard to adapt. It's been a balance btwn Lynch's stripped down action flick vs Villeneuve's more breathy take. I'll always prefer if a book gets multiple adaptations, it's just the kind of long winded story telling I like, so mockingbird didn't feel exhausting 🤷🏾♂️
Seeing Jennifer Lawrences body type in the Hunger Games movies gave me so much confidence as a teenager and I‘m so grateful for her deliberately staying „healthy and strong“ (I think she even talked about gaining muscle mass to become stronger) instead of loosing weight for the role.
that complaint was stupid as fuck anyway. shes literally the only person in the district who can reliably get meat and fresh vegetables/fruits/berries. she needs to hunt, which requires stamina and strength. idk its dumb any way you slice it to me.
@Caitlyn Castellion I think the bigger underlying issue is: why would girls want the body of someone slowly starving to death? Because who Katniss is. That whole thought process is tragically stupid. I was so confused when I watched it as a kid because she sure as hell didn't look hungry, and gale was a huge dude with tons of muscle. Definitely not starving.
@@zvezdoblyat I enjoyed the movie, but I remember being quite confused about why it was called the "Hunger" games when nobody looked particularly malnourished. Whereas in the book, there's a great piece of worldbuilding that is entirely Katniss looking at a typical Capitol plat of food and calculating what she'd need to do to have something like that at home.
My parents met during The Lockdown, but my mother couldn’t get The Vaccine while she was pregnant with me, so she died shortly after I was born. The Good Old Party came for my father next, locking him up in the aftermath of The InfoWars. Now my sister and I attend a regular school divided into a number of groups based on our hair color. Except… I have a secret. My hair is dye-vergent.
I still can't believe she went this entire video without even mentioning Maze Runner, that series somehow got an entire trilogy of movies and actually finished the story.
As a teen I thought the hunger game's ending was anti-climactic but revisiting it as an adult I thought it was pretty subservice and brilliant. I wanted a singular "chose one" saviour trope, the more realistic idea of a revolution being a long battle with thousands of moving pieces in which you're but a small gear didn't occur to me. The fragility of a traumatized 17 years old's psyche, suffering through PTSD, didn't occur to me. Not until I was an adult and my perspective on 16 years old moved on to "oh my god, they're just kids". The Hunger Games stood out in that it was way more mature, realistic and well developed than all the other YA dystopias combined. Even the "boring" stuff like agitating and creating propaganda (in the value-neutral sense of the term), breaking dictatorial censorship to cover abuses in the revolution is crucial. It subverted the rugged individualism of the genre for collective struggle. It's successors tried to capture it's charm but never had that maturity.
honestly, the propaganda manufacturing is the thing that i remember the most vividly about mockingjay. i legitimately believe that that fucked up my young, bright eyed, ideastic teenage self and made me doubt a lot of shit over the years lmao. as an adult it still hits too close to home
@@asha80801 That did really stand out to me too. Now that I'm more into activism I realized how crucial propaganda is. Even the correct idea needs propagandising or you're not getting anywhere, because the mainstream media is inherently pro-status quo and will use propaganda against you anyway. It will be used to separate you from your natural allies through misinformation so you have to counter it. Just see how BLM was depicted for example.
@@asha80801 yup, I've read the series in elementary school, and although at the time i didn't understand some concepts (i was in fucking elementary school), it really shaped the way i view certain things, one of them being if i remember correctly the cat faced capitol citizen and other capitol citizens as well, who despite being well off were also deeply harmed by the system, that made me think a lot as a kid
Its been a long time since ive read them, but I think my problem is it wasn't written in an interesting way. Like all of that sounds cool described on paper but once you get to the actual writing of the book it felt like Katniss was a zombie. If it wasn't told explicitly from her perspective all of that could be really cool to read about but Katniss didn't give a fuck about it so why should I?
Ah yes, A Bone of Thorn and Bone, about a peasant princess girl who’s the youngest eldest daughter with a terrible secret and hidden superpower, both of which everyone knows about.
@@Mia-sc5dz I feel like it's an amalgamation of a court of thorn and roses, red queen, shadow and bone, and a few others that are all "young girl has superpower and it's because she is secretly royal."
Yeah... that’s one of the problems I have with superhero or “vigilante” stories (which pain me a lot because I really like them). Societal and systematic problem are reduced to “if we beat the bad guy the day is saved” with its easier but not a true solution, just tackling a symptom instead of the problems (I suppose that’s one of the escapists elements of those stories, the false dream that complex problems can be solved with simple solution).
I still remember walking into a Barnes & Noble during Hunger Games Hype and they had a special Capitol face-painting activity to celebrate some HG book/movie release. Basically: children, come get your face painted like the fascists in this dystopian book series! It was the weirdest disconnect between source material and Fun Marketing Ploy.
Absolutely will never forgive my 9th grade English teacher who was also the school cheerleading coach and quit after one year of barely being present in the first place, who had us deviate from the standard curriculum and read Divergent instead of Fahrenheit 451.
@@niallreid7664 my state was like 50th in education for a reason LMAO. They absolutely did not care and probably preferred that it was something less "controversial".
Hunger Games's love triangle is a pretty awesome tool to show how little control over her life Katniss had. She spent her teenage life being the family's provider, had to enter the games, kill people, deal with PTSD and survivor's guilt, become the face of a rebellion and struggle for dear life of hers and her loved ones - all the while being forced to continuously keep up appearances for the cameras. And then there's two guys who accuse her of being indecisive. INDECISIVE! She didn't have the luxury to explore her options, she couldn't develop her chemistry with Gale because Snow kept watching, she couldn't develop her relationship with Peeta at a healthy and comfortable pace because the situation demanded drastic jumps between milestones that would otherwise take years. She didn't get to live her life as a normal teenager should, and the love triangle was part of her overall tragedy. Meanwhile, ironically, we as the extension of her audience contributed to it with the Team Peeta/Team Gale nonsense.
You are so right, Katniss is literally forced to choose between her childhood best friend or the guy who she has to marry to save her family because of Snow. And it might seem like her childhood best friend (who is played by an attractive actor) is the best choice, but she still has doubts because she never thought of him like that until he confessed, at which point she's already won The Hunger Games and has to marry Peeta.
Not to mention part of her struggle was the fact that she was presented with options that would have made her life easier at the expense of her self worth. While it wasn't explicitly stated, prostitution was the unspoken method by alot of younger girls to survive. The only reason why she didn't become a prostitute/ have sex occasionally with older men for food or money is because she could hunt.
I think it's lazy writing and truly toxic, I beg everyone and their mom to run if ever finding yourself in such a messed up situation as that before someone has to die in order to choose or be chosen.
nah, don't; we read it in english class while the hype was still running and the films were not all released yet. No indication of being old because of that. We ain't old. 😶
I think that means the three of you are decidedly not all that old then. No one I'm aware of who is 30 or older would have been assigned these books in high school as they were barely even released at that time.
“You better be careful out there in The Chicago. If they catch you out after The Curfew, they’ll feed you to The Bears and then thrown your remains onto The Bean.”
I think other dystopian ya did so badly were the way they automatically treat adult characters as irrationally evil to the readers/viewers face. Hunger Games respects the adult characters and gave people like Haymitch, Effie, and President Snow personalities that are naturally adult with adult confilcts.
One subtle but very clever thing I liked about the first HG book was that--yes, the Capitol does lots of evil things, but none of the Capitol characters ever do anything personally evil where Katniss / the audience can see it. Most of them are just people doing their jobs, or are endearingly silly or mildly annoying media people. Even Snow comes off largely as an affable grandfather figure. The evil is faceless and systemic, making it harder to rally against.
One of my favorite anecdotes from college was a writing professor and mentor sitting me down after a very harsh editing session and saying, "Look, I mentored this one girl a few years ago. Her book was terrible. I worked with her for months and months and months and it never got better, it only got worse. Now it's a best-selling Dystopian YA series with a movie on the way. You're going to be just fine."
@@chloe._. I don't want to say too much for fear of bringing the internet down on a professor for something he said candidly to me, in private, but you can probably guess the author and school from context clues in this video and a little wikipedia investigation.
@@Narokkurai Ah yeah, I get it. Sorry, I didn't mean to be intrusive like that. I was already 99% sure you were talking about Roth and was hoping for confirmation, but you needn't say more.
Ill never forget after seeing the first movie my roommate was so disappointed Rue & Thrash were Black. When the rest of us pointed out that in the book they were described as “dark skinned” she said she thought they meant “olive toned”. Our relationship never recovered.
As a kid I think I read the books after the movies so I pictured the movie. But I remember vividly that Katniss was olive toned, she was described like that. Whereas Rue and Thrash were described as having dark skin. I’m pretty sure Rue’s hair is also described as textured? It’s crazy to me that people would read it and picture all of the districts, that represent North America, as Caucasian? It’s mad
@@witchplease9695 I feel like many also refused to believe that Rue, a black girl, could be portrayed as completely innocent, and flawless, which is to get across how cruel the games are ofc. I just think it’s not even empathy, they refuse to see black people as being wholly innocent
Also I’ve felt so alone in my beef with Divergent. “Only my friends and I are real people”. It would be one thing if the society said that people were one dimensional and everyone discovered they weren’t. But the fact that some people are genetically just, “more real” is bleh
I don’t think the point of Mockingjay was “both sides bad”. To me, it read more that Coin was a false savior who portrayed herself as a rebel because she wanted the power Snow had. There are several commanders in the rebel side (Paylor, Boggs, Heavensbee, etc) that are truly in the rebellion to overturn the system. Coin was willing to kill innocents, but not everyone in command on the rebel side knew that that was her plan, only a select few (of course it’s entirely possible I’m misremembering, I’m due for a re-read of the whole series).
Something I heard that feels relevant to this conversation is the story of how the 'uglies' series was never able to get a movie adaptation- it's a series with a main theme of dismantling beauty standards after all, and Hollywood just couldn't figure out how to market it, despite trying several times
I think the problem with Uglies from an adaptation perspective is both how expensive it would be, and also how hard all the constant detailed character transformations per book. Certain details and transformations might be hard to pull off even with today's special effects. I think they could do it but it would take the perfect studio and the perfect budget.
@@KaiInMotion I always thought it would make an incredible animated film or series (which would solve many of these issues) but back then (and even now tbh) adult animation wasn't much of thing in Western media.
Uglies was one of my favourite series as a preteen. I theorised that they might cast a different actress for Tally as an ugly, a pretty and a special, but that would probably result in the character feeling like three different people. And SFX would probably end up in Uncanny Valley territory. At least if there is no adaptation, there is no *bad* adaptation.
I was waiting for a mention of this series. I was obsessed with this as a teen and let all my friends borrow my copies since I had the whole set. I still reread it every once in a while
This might be a specific tangent: I think the Hunger Games movie shortening Cato’s death lost the horror of it. In the book he is attacked by the mutts for what is described as hours, and the moment when she decides to use her last arrow to end his suffering is tense. That’s her last arrow. And then Cato mouths “please” and she finishes him out of pity. I’m sure the movie had to shorten it, but the tension of Peeta and Katniss waiting on top of the cornucopia, hearing his endless suffering just willing it to end. I always saw it as an exercise of the Capitols power: they force Katniss to be the one to end the game. The game makers control everything, there is no way they couldn’t have had the mutts take out Cato quickly. No, they draw it out so Katniss has to be the one that finishes the game. She has to take another life. Even though she does it out of mercy after her asks, it’s still an arrow she shoots.
I know this is super late but: That last arrow was also the only thing keeping Peeta's leg from bleeding out because she turned it into a tourniquet. By forcing her to use that arrow they also force her (and Peeta) to make the decision to risk his life so Cato's suffering will finally end. If they hadn't thought of the berries, Peeta would have quickly succumbed to his leg injury and Katniss would have been the sole winner and she would have probably also carried the guilt of taking away the only thing keeping Peeta from bleeding out (even though his leg would have killed him in the end anyway).
Also a key detail I always hated that they removed was that the mutts had collars with the district numbers on them and they were designed to resemble the fallen tributes. That’s why katniss sees them in her nightmares because she keeps seeing glimmer’s eyes in one of the mutts
I hated that they wrote out Peeta’s amputation in the books. It was always an important factor and Katniss felt personally responsible for him losing his leg. She felt that guilt and it wore on her mental health a lot
I honestly believe that the Hunger Games subway adds are canon to the Hunger Games universe in which they are adds put out by the capital to promote the games.
The thing that killed dystopian fiction for me personally was the realization that I already live in a dystopian hellscape. I want fiction where things can be better.
@@yellowstarproductions6743the problem is utopia isn’t real. Even in Star Trek so far back you could see the seeds of things that sorta shake the idea Rodenberry had and now after a war Star Trek is just another dystopian sci-fi universe
Watching Domino’s make Squid Games promo material has been giving me serious flashbacks to that ‘brands trying to capitalise on an anti-capitalist story’ of the HG era
As a wise man once said, 'capitalism doesn't care if you hate it, in fact it can repackage your hate for it and sell it back to you wrapped in neon chrome for 60 dollars', or something along those lines.
@@EvoluteCreator I don't know who said that specific quote but Mark Fisher expressed similar sentiment in his book "Capitalist Realism".. this is taken from wikipedia : "According to Fisher, capitalist realism has so captured public thought that the idea of anti-capitalism no longer acts as the antithesis to capitalism. Instead, it is deployed as a means for reinforcing capitalism. This is done through media which aims to provide a safe means of consuming anti-capitalist ideas without actually challenging the system."
@@Bazzi69 im going to out myself now: I've read it and it was alright. But you mostly read it for the big battles and the..."explicit" stuff. But it's not the worst book I've ever read, there is stuff to enjoy if you look for it 😅
sarah z: the late 90's and early 2000's gave us stuff like "shade's children", a dystopia about how fucked up it would be if all the adults in the world disappeared, and "gone", a dystopia about how fucked up it would be if all the adults in the world disappeared-- me: [nods sagely] jimmy neutron
The genius of the hunger games books wasn't truly revealed until the movies were made and marketed the exact same way the actual games were marketed in-universe. The #TeamPeeta vs #TeamGale thing, the nerfing of the suicide pact, the dance remix of Hanging Tree, this series was such a thorough skewering of the society of the spectacle that it actually predicted what our society would do with it after it was released.
The hunger games will always hold a special place in my heart. I am indigenous and with olive skin so I really felt connected to katniss. I learned how to braid my hair like her and wore my hair like that for years. When I would go on bush walks I’d run around and pretend to be hunting(despite being a vegetarian). I was 12 when the first movie released so she felt like a cool older sister which I aspired to be like
It's sad that "I hate this book because they made me read it in school" is such a common thing. Some of my favorite books (Grendel, Invisible Man, Persepolis) I only ever read because of a class. It sucks that English classes are so bad that it makes great books feel awful.
@@Minam0 Yeah, I think the teachers may be a big factor. For example, I don't like "Walden; or, Life in the Woods", but I have such fond memories of discussing it for English class that I don't think I could ever throw away my annotated copy.
I'm just thinking watching this that vaguely remembering that Veronica Roth is Christian and having liked the Divergent books as a catholic teenager in a very conservative household i think honestly the main fantasy of Divergent is a kind of christian rock feeling of "you can be a good person and wear eyeliner and your parents can't tell you to only wear grey and give up everything fun" and i hope someone has done a close read of this take
"Why would anyone want to be anything other than Dauntless?" Uh...because as a physically unfit, chronically ill teenager, Dauntless was all my worst nightmares in one place. Amity always sounded the best. It's quiet and peaceful, and you get to be a farmer.
I get your point but the thing that i remember the most about the amity is the fact that their bread is drugged so that they are always happy and chill and their anger is being controlled and suppressed. Not very nice imo
It’s honestly super problematic how so much of the “bravery” in Dauntless boils down to just being fit and able-bodied. If you get Dauntless as the result of the testing ceremony and then aren’t in shape enough to make it through the months of intense physical training (where the lower-ranking people would get cut and made “factionless”), you’re just tossed out and worse off than before since you can’t go back to your birth faction and are cut off from your family. You’re not Dauntless enough, never mind that bravery as a concept has nothing to do with how well you can fistfight. And that’s not even touching how you need to be able to jump from a train in order to even get into Dauntless. Like would a Dauntless initiate in a wheelchair or some sort of leg injury or something not be able to get in at all? Plus the entire faction (iirc) is also some weird su!cide cult where once you’re too old to parkour or whatever you’re supposed to end your life and the weird way that Al taking his life is handled in the book. It’s just all around a mess when it comes to physical and mental health.
There’s this part in City of Ember where the main character realizes that nobody alive in the whole city understands how the ancient engine that’s powering everything actually works and they’re just sort of slowly patching little pieces of it up as it inevitably falls apart and dies… and I think about that every f-ing week.
@@riley8385 kind of except it’s told from the perspective of the descendants who don’t realize at first that they’ve totally lost track of what the plan for the city was supposed to be. And they have to put the pieces together. The planners don’t have psycho-history on their side either.
I think the public “downfall” of Jennifer Lawrence among women could also be due to the fact that a lot of the female fan base of the hunger games series was reaching that point of maturity, where they realized it’s fine to be like other girls, other girls are great, and loudly trying not to be is cringe. And JL pretty much built her whole brand off being not like other girls/actresses. Like yes I think some people did just get tired of it, but I think it came at that time where the older gen z/younger millennial women were really confronted with dismantling their own internalized misogyny.
So the revelation in Allegiant is that what makes Tris "superspecial" is being literally just as average as any person reading the books? Most escapist literature give their protagonist an unique hability to make them special, the Divergent Saga isntead took away basic mental habilities from everybody else, and I find that funny.
To be fair, that does sound wonderfully dystopic. If I understood it correctly, that the citizens in universe there, were mentally stunted in different ways by their gov.
I can’t tell you how much of a relief it is to hear you say divergent is just kinda bad. My high school had a whole month long class about it and I hated it. We had to make our own factions and I was so pissed I tried to make it the most normal human trait imaginable.
Divergent is soooo bad omg. Like okay. The first book was OKAY. Then the second book Tris was OOC. THEN there’re the last book. I need the last book to be set on fire….
I went to see the film and thought it was okay. It was enough to get me to read the book, hoping that it just didn't translate well to film. Was disappointed to discover it was the other way round and the film had made the best of a bad lot.
One thing I liked about the first Hunger Games movie was how they did the in-universe coverage of the Games. The sets and tone were exactly the same as, say, Sportscenter, only instead of clips of football playing in the background while the hosts talked about the upcoming game, it was of kids killing each other. The next movies moved away from that motif as the series moved away from the violence as entertainment theme, but it was a nice touch while it lasted.
This was my favorite parts of the first HG movie too. They took Katniss' internal, first person monologues and made it sportscaster style cutaways with Caesar. Brilliant adaptation choice.
The hanging tree remix brought back some crazy memories. When I was obsessed with the books, I'd have my kindle play them on text-to-speech all the time, especially going to bed. It was SUPREMELY creepy to wake up in pitch darkness because a robot is whispering murder poetry directly into your ear.
The thing about the HG love triangle, and especially how it’s resolved, that really works for me is the understanding that I think Gale *would* have been the obvious choice in a different world, i.e. one where Prim wasn’t reaped and Katniss didn’t end up in the arena. Both her sharing that specific trauma with Peeta and the war driving her and Gale apart morally ends up sealing the deal for Katniss/Peeta being the only viable choice. Re-reading Mockingjay as an adult, I really appreciated the nebulous sense of sadness and pain that comes with loving someone whose fundamental values have diverged from yours, in a way that makes your relationship untenable (Gale is willing to commit war crimes for a perceived greater good, Katniss feels that doing so defeats the purpose of fighting for said greater good in the first place, etc.) It’s really tragic, and felt very politically relevant during my 2020 re-read. Which boy she picks is ultimately the metaphorical answer to the just war dilemma laid out in the books, so it’s serving an important functional purpose theme wise and is also why I can mostly give the weaker characterization for both boys (and especially Peeta) a pass. Would it have been a better story if Peeta had been a more complete feeling, fleshed out character? Probably, but as is he’s mostly acting as a cipher, and I think that’s ok for a book that was always at its strongest when it was utilizing its smaller interpersonal drama to speak about its broader dystopian themes.
Intresting take and I agree! It also shows how war changes and drives people apart and brings out the most brutal part of a person. It's so clear in Gales character but also in his relationship with Katniss. They were so similar in the beginning but their experiances and actions in the rebelion/war made them into different people.
It's also, obviously, a very anti-war story, and it makes me a little angry how that part of it is often a little glossed-over. The point isn't that both sides are bad. The point is that violence of any kind, even when necessary, is bad. That's why Katniss kills Coin instead of Snow at the end. Snow's already dead. Coin is the remaining threat. The melancholy ending is also a peaceful one. The dream of peace has come true, at a terrible cost.
@@arigadatred5395 but isn’t killing someone violence. I feel like that hurts your argument that all violence is bad and unnecessary when you’re fine with a violent ending
Joelle Grr The point is Katniss is traumatized by the violence she commits, regrets it even while knowing it's necessary, etc. She doesn't salivate over or try to justify the violence, she knows it's awful. Whereas people like Gale have a genuine sense of bloodlust that allows them to justify and *want* to continue to commit violence. You can have a violent ending or have the "good" characters committing violence while still condemning it and sending an anti-violence message. In fact it's very hard to show an anti-violence message and properly condemn violence without showing it first and displaying the actual trauma and consequences of it, which THG does. Killing Snow would have been a symbolic act that gave Katniss nothing but maybe a fleeting feeling of vengeance; he was bound and dead either way. Coin on the other hand was free, in power, and was more of a threat of continued violence and evil to the people of Panem. In killing her Katniss stopped another Hunger Games from happening, to me that sends a clear anti-violence message. Katniss commits an act of violence to stop further acts of violence. Half the point of the series is examining when and how violence is justified and who it's used against and what reasons people come up with to absolve themselves, but I think one of the few characters who is pretty much in the clear is Katniss, seeing as she didn't seek out a violent life, hated every moment of it, and returned to a peaceful existence the moment she was able.
@@KaiInMotion adding to this, it’s very telling that Katniss’s plan was to kill Coin *and then herself.* There’s this very real fear that with someone like Coin in power the cycles of abuse/violence will just continue under new management. A murder suicide is the best she can do as a rogue, individual agent to try and close the loop. Consequential retaliation + reparations isn’t something Gale ever stops to think about from Katniss’s POV, so this again serves to highlight where they diverged as people.
Okay but hear me out: the bit from the end of Mockingjay where Katniss is thinking about why she chose to be with Peeta instead of Gale. She says that Peeta brings out softness, kindness, and Mercy in her. Where Gale is more like a fire that would consume them both. and I think that's a really good analogy for what trauma did to the three of them and what it does to people in general. Gale was still ready to keep fighting, and willing to go much further than Katniss would have to beat the capitol and make sure things kept changing. He literally helped Beetee design bombs that had a secondary, delayed detonation to kill medics/ anyone trying to help the injured and then dropped those bombs on children. Compared to Peeta who was so vehemently against holding one last hunger Games with children from the capitol. I think Team Peeta vs Team Gale says a lot about what a person values and how they would react in that sort of situation. and how Katniss very pointedly chooses mercy and kindness is so profound, especially in a dystopia story
I think the popularity of the Dystopian YA novel had a lot to do with the 2010s pop culture. Everything was colourful and lighthearted, music was very fun, TH-cam brought comedy sketches and Zoella hauls to teens…It was very much a lighthearted time compared to later years, so I think the Dystopian YA was so enjoyable because it felt a lot darker than real life. But post 2016, and especially now, it feels too close to home and people want stories that give them that fluffy feeling of the early 2010s.
Omg this is a massive spoiler for me !!! I realize I never knew the end of that série !!! And I bought the book to know it but never actually read it xD
Low key the way that divergent killed off its characters had me convinced for years that my book wouldn't be a Real Book unless I killed off at least 1 character per book. Preferably more
I legit think she misspoke here. Gale is barely in the books at all, and is always an asshole to her, specifically. Whether you like Peeta or not, Gale was never even in the running, and it's bizarre she says this as part of the "it's not really a love triangle story" point when in the books she ends up with Peeta. If Gale is the obvious choice, it basically by definition is a love triangle story.
the owl house did a better job at critiquing the sorting people into factions thing in a single 20 minute episode than divergent did in three several hundred page books.
@@liamshanley4920 the magic system and world building is one of my favorite parts of the show it’s amazing. hoping disney will come to their senses and give them a full season 3 and hopefully renew them for more
To be fair The Owl House is an amazing show with some of the best worldbuilding in recent times, so most shows are gonna struggle doing as good as TOH in this field.
1:05:20 this is funny because as of now The Hunger Games franchise has made a HUGE resurgence online. With the movies now being on Netflix it seems people are talking about it again. Honestly the timing couldn’t be more perfect with the new prequel movie coming out later this year. I haven’t seen this much hype for the franchise in years- we’ll see how long it lasts but it’s kind of nice seeing the books and movies get the appreciation they deserve. Suzanne Collins is an incredible author and the books have aged so well with many topics being relevant today
It's a small thing, but it does always frustrate me when people discuss the Hunger Games around the romance and violence. It was a big part of the themes and story that Katniss didn't want to be involved with any of it. Even in the final book her choice between Gale and Peeta was more about what they represented about her trauma and future rather than any romance. It's one of the best books I've ever seen which highlights what pressures and a lack of agency feels like, especially as a girl. It's a reason why I don't think the final book ended in a "both sides are bad" thesis. Killing Coin was the one choice Katniss felt like she could make to stop more children like her sister dying, even if it was flawed. Katniss was extremely traumatised, lashed out, and was a teenage girl who shouldn't have been forced to do the things she did
I think a lot of people miss that she was forced to be a figureheard for the revolution while just wanting to like, hunt and shiz. from memory after a while she only really seems comfortable in the hunger games, because that's where she gets any amount of agency
That's definitely one of the worse side effects of having to censor the series for the movies because there's a lot a lot of stuff that has to get ignored to even explain how genuinely fucked up katniss was by the end of the story. And why the ending with her trying to feel ok about having children is just a great demonstration that she not only has healed a bit but also that *she was traumatized for life*
she was exploited for her aesthetics emphasising why basing politics and movements on them is flawed everything turned into being aesthetically motivating or moving. (cough cough neoliberal commentary)
so I'm not even 30 minutes in and THANK YOU for pointing out the marketing of the love triangle as being reflective of the Capitol!! I've been saying for years that the biggest irony of The Hunger Games movies is that the marketing put us, the viewers, into the role of that Capitol peoples, lavishly enjoying the drama and romance of literal children literally murdering each other for our entertainment and NO ONE realized. Ok, pressing play again.
The thing is, I get it. It is super interesting to watch the events of a hunger game unfold, and wonder ''what if x character did this instead of this?''. It's like a tag game with really high stakes.
The most wild thing to me was Lawrence being criticized for looking "too healthy" to play a main character that had grown up struggling for food. They wanted her to starve herself to look more gaunt and realistic. Translation: they wanted to create suffering for the sake of entertainment. The irony.
Good point. Though I do kinda wish they had CGIed Katniss during the flashback to her first interaction with Peeta where he gave her bread and she's pretty much at death's door from starvation. Like they CGIed him to look utterly gaunt after his torture in the Capitol. Didn't need to be that much, but maybe a little to make that feel more urgent.
They could have done it without actually making her unhealthy, mainly via makeup. They could have given her dark circles and desaturated her skin colour slightly, for instance. They could have made her lips look chapped and given her skin conditions that occur from malnutrition. They could have used minor sculpting to give her prominent cheekbones to create a gaunt appearance, alongside minor computer effects/filters to make it look more realistic.
@@casie6609 Because makeup and special effects can only do so much. Actors starving themselves for specific roles is way more common than you think. Ex: Bale in the Machinist, McConaughey AND Leto in Dallas Buyer's Club, etc etc. The practice is as old as Hollywood itself.
@@natkatmac I do know about it and it's horrible. I was just thinking about it because the stuff they can do with makeup is crazy nowadays. Especially with the face, making people look like they're literally dying. It seems like they could do it
Hunger Games series: "Our love triangle starts off as deliberately artificial to comment on the typical tropes." Hunger Games marketing: "Our you Team Gale or Team Peeta?"
i think my favorite part about divergent is how it was such a genre staple to make all these cool dystopian names for your countries and settings, and like you have that with the factions, but the city itself is literally just chicago.
33:56 “If you can tell where the story is going than the story did its job.” That’s literally the first time I ever heard someone say that. I think many prospective writers are under the impression that if the audience knows where the story is going, you didn’t get the twist right.
Yeah, y'know, I think a lot of my favorite stories hardly ever left me surprised. I was so sucked in, with multiple predictions, I never cared too much about twists I saw coming as long as they made sense. I feel like that's how a lot of others consume media as well, just wanting a story that's enticing and makes sense, rather than one that's confusing.
@@kalkdog8809 I think the reason people feel like they need to surprise the audience comes from the mystery genre and migrated to other media due to the popularization of twist endings. Personally, I think twists are fine so long as they make sense in retrospect, but it doesn’t always occur to me that the twist itself is often unnecessary.
In regards to how Divergent fails to criticize the faction system, I remember reading in the back of my copy of one of the books, I can't remember which now and my copies are long gone, an interview with Veronica Roth. One of the questions posed to her was "What would be your utopia?" and she said something along the lines of "I think I got really close with the world in Divergent," and that should tell you everything you need to know about how she's writing dystopian fiction: she's not.
What the actual everloving fuck? The characters in these books - with the exception of Tris - are not even what we consider humans according to the third book! I cannot think of any place other than maaaaayyybe Erudite where you wouldn't suffer endlessly. At least there you can use the excuse of research and stay on your own. Candor won't let you have secrets, Amity drugs you, Abnegation is pathologically self-denying, and Dauntless is just "what if soldiers but they are frat boys".
The actual quote is her explaining that she had to come up with a utopia for a college class, invented the first version of the faction caste system, and then realized shortly after she'd actually created a horrific dystopia. And that half of the point their professor gave them the assignment for was to realize why all dystopias are failed utopias. It was hardly her blithely saying the world of Divergent is a fun one she wants to live in.
Kinda disagree that real people don't use "The Common Noun" to describe important events or concepts. In the past century we've had The Great War, The Great Depression and The Holocaust (where holocaust was a word used to describe atrocities before it started describing a specific one. We've also got things like "The Net"/"The Web" "The Crown" "The Church" etc While I've never taken "The Exam" I did recently get "The Jab"...
@@crypticcorvid And then there's us Aussies who call Woolworths Woolies, McDonald's Macca's (to the point where some stores have Macca's on their signs), and if we did have a Walmart, we'd be calling it Wallie's.
“The” mostly implies something you and your conversation partner know about. “I’m feeding the cat”, or “I’m going to the store.” I get the attempt of familiarity here, but it does begin to annoy at some point. Almost feels like these stories are written by Teen Titans Star Fire
Imagine a world where impressionable teens spend years preparing for an examination, the results of which can significantly alter their immediate futures or perhaps the course of their entire lives... Imagine the world of... The SATs
The amount of people I remember seeing back in 2011-2012 that were genuinely mad about Rue and Thresh being played by black actors was so strange and honestly feels like a fever dream. I distinctly remember quite a few people online that claimed Rue was obviously written as a white girl because, and no I’m not making this up, “Katniss was reminded of Prim when she met Rue”. Because as we all know, the only thing that Rue and Prim would have in common is race apparently 🙄
people picked up the "she reminded her of prim" but didnt pick up the "she had dark skin" smh. also in the book Katniss literally explains how rue reminds her of prim, its not because of skin color and hair color and stuff like that but rather than rue being what prim would be if she was in the games, and how rue was the youngest and the smallest competitor there.
@@yonicorn1641 People really hate paying attention when reading. It reminds me of when Game of Thrones had the first season release. There were a small amount of people who suck at reading who thought that Renly and Loras were turned gay for the show. This is in despite of SEVERAL passages in the books that are not subtle at all about the nature of their relationship. We don't directly see it because we didn't have POV characters that were close to Renly, but it was super obvious. Granted I have a lot of issues with how that relationship is portrayed in the show, but that's a topic for another day.
@@servebotfrank4082 To be fair, people who don't know to look for queer rep are TERRIBLE at it. When I first read the series at 14, I didn't pick up on it at all and I had basically no understanding of queer culture (and hadn't yet figured out I was trans and gay myself). Re-reading it as I got older yeah it seemed obvious, but there's plenty of people who just never have exposure to queer culture or stories so it just goes right over thier heads. I'm not saying this to excuse people, but moreso just to try and explain the mindset some people might have cause I had a similar experience and I've never had a problem with LGBT people and am one myself.
@@yonicorn1641 Thank God you pointed this out. I thought I was just misremebering the fact that they literally called her “dark skinned”. Had myself tripping for a second lol.
@@nicolasnamed God I remember I read a book when I was in late elementary school/ early middle school, I don’t remember exactly, but basically the premise was that it was a school that taught people to be good princes and princesses or evil villains. The main characters were a girl who was all edgy and dark and got chosen to be a princess but the beautiful and (outwardly) kind girl got put in the villain school. Anyways, they also both had “live interests”, one villain and one prince, and it was kind of a toss up as to who would end up with each guy. Until in one of the later books, the two girls basically rejected the school and it’s binary of good and evil, and had their true love’s kiss with each other instead of either of the guys. AND I STILL THOUGHT THEY WERE GAL PALS HAHAHA. Thinking back on it makes me laugh so much. Tbf, I was pretty sheltered and didn’t have a phone or access to social media at that point so I’m not sure I even knew gay people existed, but it’s still hilarious. Ah, what I wouldn’t do to have a “gal pal” now lol
I do hate the whole "both sides are equally bad" aspect of Mockingjay, but I do appreciate how ambitious that book was in the way of making the "good side" use Katniss as a pawn for their propaganda just as much as the "bad side". Making it clear that revolutions don't get the luxury of being noble/morally superior if they want to do any good was a concept as a kid that I was not used to seeing. I can also totally see how someone faced with that can just throw up their hands and say "everything is terrible, everyone is bad, no one does this right, what's even the point of picking a side?" So it made sense to me that Katniss's character landed there - I just wish that line of thinking had been challenged by the narrative in some way.
3 ปีที่แล้ว +275
I mean... it's also has a base on reality that sometimes revolutionary movements can be used by popular and/or charismatic figures to basically replace one fascist goverment for another. But even though sometimes that aspect of fiction can fall pretty easily on the "everything sucks" angle, is usually meant as a cautionary tale on "be carefull who you're following because people can take advantage of you".
I’ve always hated the ending of Mockingjay where Katniss votes to continue the games with Capitol kids, but looking back I think i would be character assassination for her *not to* want to continue the cycle, even if that ultimately doesn’t happen.
@ Yeah, accusing Mockingjay of "violence is bad" both sidesism is kind of a massive oversimplification of what's presented in the text. The violence itself isn't vilified, it's the cycle of violence and fascist manipulation by an opportunistic leader. What sets Katniss off isn't revolutionary violence but the "new" Hunger Games and the covert psyop terrorism that killed her sister as an aid worker.
Catching Fire tugged at my heart a lot more than the first movie did-the death of Katniss’ outfit designer (I sadly forget his name), and the scene where Peetah comforts that girl in the water as they stare at the sky both actively got me invested in the movie. It was really good! Edit: FUCK I FORGOT THE TRIBUTE SCENE. THE SILENCE OF EVERYONE AS EFFIE IS SELECTING AND ITS ONLY THE FOUR OF THEM. OH MY GOD-
After your very intense videos this year, it's nice to hear you disecting trends that interest you without worrying about any discourse. ...beyond that Gale comment, but that's for another day.
Idea for a shitty YA dystopia: a world where horses are illegal. It's illegal to own or ride horses, and wild horses are exterminated. Our protagonist comes across a lone wild horse one day and they develop an instant bond. She is soon invited into a pro-horse rebel group that wants to take down the tyrannical government, and she and her horse will be the key to victory! It gets in the YA dystopia demographic AND the horse girl demographic!
"Sadie! Get away from that Thing! We can't trust them since... The Stampede." "You don't understand, daddy! You'll never understand!" _horse neighs approvingly, before turning into the key of a forgotten underground city, where it turns out horses were outlawed by The GLU Factory for pro-car propaganda_
Madge Undersee was one of those characters that was definitely a highlight in the book, but I think the reason she was cut was because she would’ve been a bit difficult to translate into the film. Her primary purpose, I felt, was to highlight how socially oblivious Katniss was. By the time she was 16, she’d spent most of her life keeping her family alive, largely through hunting, and because this had become her single focus, she hadn’t learned basic social cues or empathy, at least not in a lot of detail. Because of this, she had viewed Madge in a rather detached way, as this quiet girl she occasionally hung out with at school, and who was a nice person whom she liked. It wasn’t until Madge gave her the Mockingjay pin and kissed her on the cheek that it occurred to her that she was actually one of her closest friends. It was being faced with death and not being a provider to her family that finally made Katniss view her in a different light. That’s why they become very good friends in the second book, and Katniss is upset when she learns that she was killed in the District 12 bombing. The problem is that most of this occurs in Katniss’s head, and she barely appears in person. If we only went by those short appearances, we definitely wouldn’t get the whole story of their relationship in the required time limit. Also, the reason Madge likes Katniss is because she (Madge) is very reserved, and Katniss is the only person at school who doesn’t expect her to make conversation or actively tries to get her to talk. So their friendship is based on a history of just sitting in each other’s company, without talking to each other. As poignant as this is, it’s difficult to contextualise in a film, and without this context, it’s going to be a bit confusing to see this girl who seemingly has little to do with Katniss randomly kissing her on the cheek and giving her a brooch.
Not only that, I think a film going audience would likely interpret the interaction as Madge romantically liking Katniss. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, of course. I’m sure some book readers had that interpretation as well and that’s also valid. Just that it would immediately be recontextualised as an unfulfilled romance rather than an understated but strong friendship. Make of that what you will
@@streamlily5971 basically a world where white people (pearls) suffer bc of the sun (ig?) and black people (called coals and yes that's already fucked up) are safer because they have less chances of getting skin cancer. at least that's what I got from wikipedia. OH and also the main character does blackface (it's also the cover art) because apparently the author didn't think their book was bad enough
i’m so glad you touched on Katniss’ skin tone. A story of an Indigenous woman who protects her sister, then a black girl with whom she feels kinship, then the death of Rue. as an Indigenous person, this would’ve been much more compelling to me (like the book did, as i pictured Katniss with a skin tone like mine). Jennifer Lawrence is fantastic at her craft, but the movies compared to the books were kinda meh (i know, cliche).
eh, it might be cliche but i think it's cliche for a reason, in that most movie adaptations do end up being worse, unfaithful or just straight up terrible more than they end up actually adding anything to the books (i can't think of any examples where i prefer the movies to the books, though i'm sure there are some). i think this is because of hollywood's tendency to want a sensational story with complex characters but ultimately shying away from actually discussing their complexities. katniss being an indigenous woman in the movies would've been huge, but probably less profitable in their eyes because the struggles of a white woman are seen as more relatable than the struggles of a woc (see the treatment of rue from fans who interpreted her as white when the casting was revealed, and how many either didn't really care for her death in the movie but mourned prim's death with everything they had, despite the two playing very similar roles in the story, often pointed out by katniss).
@@daaishifeeling i think people didn’t care for Rue’s death in the movies (as much as they did for Prim) *because* of the fact that Katniss wasn’t a person of color. The kinship between “white woman savior” and a little black girl is much different than indigenous hunter woman and a little black girl meant to portray innocence.
Reminds me a little of an old gripe of mine about an eighties schlock fantasy “adapted” from a SF novel about an indigenous fellow on another planet trying to save an alien culture from what happened to his. The book and movie share the “Beastmaster” tag and are about a guy who can talk to animals. There the similarities end.
Hi, could you tell me please where it is written that she is an Indigenous woman? Im currently reading the book and while I imagined Rue as Black, I always thought that both Katniss and Gabe were olive skinned but still white (like for example stereotypical people from Southern Europe e.g. Italy (the south specifically), Greece, Cyprus etc. I remember their skin and hair colour being mentioned in the beginning of the first book but I can't remember anything else...
@@blm0726 it's not written in the text, but a lot of people like to interpret katniss as indigenous because it works for her character and the setting of a small Appalachian mining town. she was described as having dark hair, coal-grey eyes, and 'olive skin' and that it was typical of the Seam.
![[TH] 2024 PMGC League | Survival Stage วันที่ 1 | PUBG MOBILE Global Championship](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FVFT-PFwU80/mqdefault.jpg)
Can we get a hell yeah for the 2023 hunger games renaissance 👀
hell yeah!
Hell Yeah!
hell yea! finally read the books lol
Wait, is it?? X)
HELL YEAH‼️‼️‼️
When Subway was a sponsor for The Hunger Games: Catching Fire, I went into one of their stores and asked if I could take home the life-size cardboard standee of Katniss Everdeen when they were done with it. The manager said "sure," and for the rest of my teen years, cardboard Katniss with the Subway logo stood guard in my bedroom
thats amazing
Please, tell me that she's still out there...
A bastion, nay, a sentinel of vigilance. We'd all sleep a bit better subway katniss watching us
pics or it didnt happen
Oh Wow! I'd completely forgotten about Hunger Games Subway until today...
still haven't gotten over the fact that the bread boy was named peeta like his dad just liked bread so much he named his son after some bread and then spelled it peeta instead of pita to cover his tracks
I'm from a country that LOVES pita bread. this joke is made practically every time the hunger games is brought up
@@-topic9506 In Spanish pita is the imperative of the verb "pitar" which means to use a whistle or a car horn, so in my country we would have jokes of Peeta as a football referee or driving a car, yeah...
Pita bread it's how his father made his mother fall in love with him
His cousin, naan, became a butcher. Shamed the whole family.
Or he just likes family guy
I've always liked how Honest Trailers described _Divergent:_ "In a world ruled by five SAT vocab wordsー"
This and "theatre kids parkouring all over Denny's at 3:00am" is so accurate XD
Fantastic deep dive.
Yes hahaha! I can’t remember of it was that same honest trailer or another video that said “the fault in our co-stars”
“Wait, guys, we did this one already. It’s The Hunger Games!”
“No Jon, it’s not The Hunger Games.”
“It’s not? Are you sure? Because it looks and sounds exactly like The Hunger Games.”
“Yeah, there’s no fight to the death in this one.”
“So… it’s the same movie, but without the actual games? That sounds horrible.”
Always love it when grimm dystopias come up with their bullshit words to describe normal things in the world.
I'm not sure if it is better or worse when they use normal words for them but capitalize them and give them a "The".
Like in Maze Runner. "We call it The Changing". "You will never survive The Scorch!" "We call them greavers!"
"If you can tell where the story is going, then the story did its job" is such an important quote especially in this time of writers ruining stories just so they can say they outsmarted the audience
Hardcore disagree. If I know where the story ends, then a good chunk of enjoyment is gone. Not all of it, but I want stories to take me to new places. Originality isn't the problem, dumb ideas are.
@@NerdilyDoneisn't it in some cases more about the journey such as one piece or something like that
@@NerdilyDoneSo what you're saying is the Lord of the Rings sucked?
@@NerdilyDone I don't know which youtuber gave you brainrot but you as the reader recognizing the signs and foreshadowing the writer gives you to predict how the end could go and you actually guessing right is in fact not a bad thing
@@NerdilyDoneBro would *not* have fun with Shakespeare plays 💀
"Tris, you can't open the box."
"Umm, I'm literally Divergent, and a minor."
please i hate this comment its so good
i love this thanks
I hate you 😭😭
Brilliant
+
My favorite thing about Divergent is that it isn’t the *whole world* that’s doing the society-based-on-buzzfeed-personality-results thing. It’s just Chicago and I think a few other places.
The author read the subcategories available for Standardized Testing graders and decided to build her world around these words.
I am always confused and curious about what the rest of the world is up to in these localized dystopian governments.
Like, what are other nations doing outside North America? Is Panem in trade relations with them? Is it all a wasteland out there?
If San Angeles from "Demolition Man" has eschewed all forms of violence, are there any hostile states outside who would seize the opportunity to invade?
Is WCKD the only organization on the entire planet interested in solving the Scorch with mazes? Are there others?
Brave New World or 1984 at least gave a short explanation that other places are equally fucked up.
When I first heard of divergent I thought the factions were ways to control people by forcing them to pick a life style and personality to maintain and mellow out humans and make them fear being anyone else so it was easier for the government to control them. I really thought the author was going with some symbolism of people being forced to conform to their families or societies idea of a perfect person and trying to find themselves in a group of people by sticking with one way to live. I didn’t think these people *actually* only had one personality trait
Are I90 and 94 still full of bad drivers in divergent?
@GrantKP And the Rebels look all gorgeous, with clean faces and trimmed hair, are all well-fed and somehow able to go head to head with the evil government troops despite fighting a guerilla war with pathetic weapons and having to live in the wild.
I will say that I think the ending of Hunger Games is interesting in that while the society gets a happy ending, it isn't a happy ending for Katniss, at least not entirely. She never really recovers from her trauma even though her and Peeta get together and have children. I think it is a nice commentary on how being the person to spark change doesn't mean happiness is guaranteed.
That is entirely why I love the books so much. It actually showed trauma and how much it damage it does. Something I feel a lot of media doesn’t show.
This is a good point. In a way, I think The Hunger Games' ending went the same route as Lord of The Rings - Frodo saved society, but was broken afterwards.
I REALLY appreciate that throughout all the books Katniss is not okay. It's not HORRIBLE TRAUMA "I'm perfectly fine and nothing is different. This has barely had an effect on me." THG isn't perfect, but I honestly think the series really is great, especially for YA novels dealing with something so traumatizing.
this. i remember reading the hunger games series as a traumatized 12 year old who wanted to change the world- the ending really sat with me. i remember pondering it for months after reading the series
@@iloveyourunclebob so true! We often assume that after heroes fight a war, they all live happily ever after and that's how it's supposed to be. I've read so many personal stories of people who have fought in wars and even though they won and were hailed as heroes, their personal lives ended up a mess due to the trauma of what they experienced. Obviously, The Hunger Games is fiction, but I think that Katniss can still be looked at as an example that it's okay to not be completely okay in the end and it's true that there really are no total winners in war
You didn’t mention ‘The Selection’ which had this descriptor on the back; “Was your favorite part of hunger games the part where katniss got makeovers? Do you love The Bachelor? Then this book is for you.”
Lmao you gotta respect honest advertising
pfft yeah the selection is pretty trashy but at least it's honest about it (guilty pleasure book)
I remember reading that so vividly lmao
How the hell do you enjoy the makeovers in HG...she was so uncomfortable throughout it
@@nm9688 “because if *I* were in her position, I’d love a cool makeover” said any aggressively self-inserting reader
I love the ‘uncomfortable makeover’ scenes in Miss Congeniality and Princess Diaries but I feel like that’s what hunger games is playing off of. Those scenes were meant to be comically uncomfortable. But the “underlying truth” that hunger games reveals is that they’re being forced to look less like themselves to become a marketable product for others who view the madeover person as less than human
one time i read a fanfic about how four became so distraught over tris’s death he moved to scotland and became snape’s dad
drop the fic name
drop the fic op
Lol I want to read that
drop the fic im begging
drop the fic name
That Subway commercial really feels like a comedy sketch. It is truly comedic gold.
Bold could be getting murdered by a fascist government. Or a delicious Subway sandwich
@@SarahZ hey there is a ton of spam in the comments and some phishing going on. I would disable links in the comments for right now, if you are worried about it
i'm not American, so that ad totally blew my mind.
Beginning with the old man who gets executed for starting a silent protest is a CHOICE.
It’s also like … perfectly American to just.. hmmmmm :)
“the day rue became black” is such a good video, ty for shouting it out :’))
I love that video so damn much, it lives in my soul. Rue was so incredibly sweet, and the actor who played her seems so wonderful in her interviews, it still lingers with me how hard that must have been on a fucking *14 year old child* 😭. Ugh, tears, man.
Im only half convinced this time she didnt mentioned the creators name (as Sarah's done before) because she didnt know how to pronounce it 🥣🔧💫👀
@@alejandrocervantes3624 lmao I thought that too
It's a masterfully done video, I hope everyone goes to watch it after this
@@JLMac322 if I have enough time to watch it a third time
I remember back in 2011, I dressed as Katniss for halloween and walked around with my bow & a quiver i made myself-proud as could be-and went trick or treating only for absolutely no one to know who the fuck I was (a unsurprisingly reoccurring, but still disappointing feature of my childhood) and all I would do was sigh and say "you'll know in march :(" while every adult looked in utter bewilderment at my mother as she tried to politely explain my disappointment. There was one (1) lady at the end of the night who was like oh! you're that girl! from the book my niece likes! who made my fucking day tho.
I dressed up as hunger games Summer from Rick and Morty once. That character had like, 3 minutes of screentime. No one fucking knew who I was, but the outfit rocked anyways
The Divergent series was good for exactly one thing
The line from the movie where some guy is like "You won't shoot me" to the protagonist and she literally says "Why does everyone keep saying that??" and shoots him.
Yesss I remember that
I refused to read or watch Divergent out of spite because my sister liked it and bugged me about it too much but that sounds literally amazing
@@lordoftheducks332 It's worth it to look up the "you won't shoot me" scenes from that movie, they're VERY good and the most iconic parts of otherwise unremarkable movies
Wasn't that also in the books?
@@legrandliseurtri7495 Not those specific lines, Tris being brutal when the bad guys thought she wouldn't be was but a line that funny sure wasn't
"Divergent tells the story of a dangerous dystopian city, known as Chicago"
Having lived in Chicago my whole life, this had me laughing way too hard
50:39
I went to visit Chicago and now watching the movies I'm like trying to identify landmarks 😂
Chicago is really cool. The natural history museum is my favorite museum I've ever seen and also I want more of the pizza. Congratulations your hometown has ruined all pizza for me
Yeah, it kind of seems like the main audience for these "Teen Dystopias" grew up and realized that they were already in an adult dystopia. That's the kind of hope killer which makes stories of change and justice seem to ring hollow.
@@ravenward626 Yeah, that Cyberpunk Edgerunners scene with David walking to school was way too close to my morning commute
@@ravenward626 this is what ive been thinking. i do wish it would come back a bit since i feel there’s still more for us to talk about and touch on, especially in a more diverse lens. also, dystopia is just plan interesting to me 😔
What consistently blows my mind is that, back when The Hunger Games was so big, people were **begging** for a Hunger Games video game - not one about the movies or books in terms of story, but just the gameplay of being in a Hunger Games arena and fighting to win. At a period where tie-in games were dead I can understand why they didn’t do it, but this is a series that was perfectly built for anthologies, video games, etc. Then Battle Royale games became the biggest genre on earth, and I hope the rights holders were kicking themselves for missing the biggest open net on earth.
I remember how popular the “Survival Games” was in Minecraft
oh man, the number of people who used to and still do play the survival games on minecraft to fill this niche is insane
This confused me too. Death matches in closed off arenas were already a big thing in multiplayer games since the first game ever gamed. You also had a wave of games around that time where bow and arrow was suddenly the primary weapon. And then battle royale games exploded. Yet no one ever thought to make an official Hunger Games Game.
Fortnite dancing in the 13th district
@@RobinOttens right? literally all the conditions were there for The Hunger Video Games and nobody ever decided to make it which is just so weird.
There was a book I really liked in high school about a dystopia where families can only have a limited number of children. The first book was about a young boy was wasn’t legally supposed to exist, and his family secretly keeps him hidden. Then he realizes the neighbors have a hidden daughter, they become friends, and she makes him braver to sneak outside sometimes. At the end, she goes to a protest that was organized online, one where many hidden children said they’d show up to make a stand. The boy doesn’t go, and later finds out that most people didn’t turn out, and those who did were gunned down. I don’t think I’d ever read and enjoyed anything with a downer ending before. It felt poetic, and it kinda felt real. I still really love dystopias, and I’m not totally sure why.
oh god, do you remember the name?? this is tickling the inside of my brain but i can’t remember the name of the book
@@christinaguilfoy100 Among the hidden
Man. I'll never understand that logic of making kids illegal. Ik it was fiction but still I don't see a reason they'd do that like idc how high the population is just absolutely no.
Wow thanks for dredging that up for me. Had a few of these Dystopian YA novels kicking around while listening to this that I could not remember the names of but can remember the plots. Thanks for helping with this one
I remember reading it and crying
She didn’t even mention the worst part about the hanging tree song.
In the books it the lyrics were “Wear a necklace of rope, side by side with me” but District 13 actually censors that part of the song and replaces it with “necklace of hope”.
By changing this single lyric the song becomes about two lovers running away together while in the original version it is clear that person A is telling person B to commit suicide because that’s the only way they can be free.
They did this because they didn’t want the real grim reality of the story to set in, they didn’t want people to realize what the song was actually about, they just wanted a more clean “inspiring” anthem for their revolution regardless of if it was accurate.
And by doing that they basically erased the reason why that song was seen as a revolutionary anthem to begin with.
It was supposed to be one of the first hints about District 13 being almost as corrupt and oppressive as the Capitol.
In the movie and dance remix the lyrics go “Wear a necklace of hope”…
If that’s not a perfect metaphor I don’t know what is.
I forgot about this and it's such a good detail. I never actually realised that the film uses District 13's censored lyrics; life really does imitate art.
Except the movie DOES mention Necklace of rope
The guy that made it says "The lyric was originally a Necklace of rope, i had it changed to Necklace of hope" and procedees to explain why, its not a small scene you miss, its completley explained
@@alexandrapedersen829 it dosent ignore it tho
@@jesusramirezromo2037 Well, I suppose that's why I never noticed that it did. My semicolon seems pretty pretentious now.
As someone who never read Hunger Games but new the song, I always thought “necklace of hope” didn’t quite fit with the rest of the song. Now I know why
Divergent is a commentary on the people who take Myers Briggs types seriously and won’t shut up about them.
That's totally what an IMDB would say
@@CraigMiyazaki Yeah, I believe that’s under the “trivia” section
@@CraigMiyazaki omg that's such a Gemini thing to say
If you get a different result every time, it’s because you’re divergent
gosh ur such a slytheroid
I guess the real dystopia was the cash grab movie adaptations we made along the way.
Painfully accurate
There's nothing more half-assed about the Hunger Games movies than the fact that they saw the book covers, with their idiosyncratic lettering, and decided to scrap it and go with Bank Gothic on all the posters
!!!
Dave Vanderstrike advising the entertainment industry
I laughed far harder at that than I probably should admit.
Never forget when I read Allegiant immediately after it came out and complained about the ending to my mom, who then went to the hospital where she worked as a nurse, saw a patient reading it, and asked them “is that the one where the main character dies at the end?” Sorry, to whoever that was
oopsy doodle😂
That was probably a core memory for that kid lol. Being in the hospital and getting the the biggest spoiler ever about a book series that inspired a lot of emotional attachment 😭
literally such an insane thing to do. why would you ever do that
I, as a little disabled kid, was heartbroken when I realised they took out all the disability from the hunger games, especially katniss' hearing loss
Or Peeta being an amputee
It was surgically repaired, though
but they kept Rue being living impaired!
@VioletNuisance sorry. Impaled*
Did you manage to develop a personality since then?
i am literally on my hands and knees crying and begging every author and aspiring author to stop naming their books "a noun of noun and noun." please. my children are starving
Hey, for a fun secondary option, you can now just flip open a dictionary to a random page, select a word at random, and name your book “Noun.” Really adds a little spice!!
a child of starving and books
So light novel isekai
@@overgrownkudzu no no, starving is an adjective. Try “A Child of Starvation and Books.” Much better
Omfg I was just saying that the other day. Whyyyy!!!
"Dauntless: basically the theater kids parkouring all over Denny's at 3 a.m." 10/10 gold.
I liked that book series more than Hunger Games. But they both dropped the ball on the third book.
Best line in a video essay with many great lines.
Man, internet people call any boisterous annoying kids "theater kids" but we are a VERY SPECIFIC kind of annoying! Loudly performing physical feats to show off to everyone you think you're better than makes you a jock! A JOCK!
@@missybarbour6885 nah not anymore, source:me who did some theater stuff in high school
😂😂😂
I think something that would've made Divergent more interesting would've been if it was revealed that *everyone* was divergent, and the government was just lying and telling everyone that they belonged to an arbitrary category that made them easier to control. That way Tris wouldn't be ~special~, and it would be a bit more resonant that the government created categories that people needed to conform into for social acceptance, since that actually *is* a problem, as your co-writer pointed out!
Honestly when I was a teen and read those books, thats what I thought the twist was gonna be. I kept waiting but it never happened lol
I was truly convinced that was gonna be the twist,, I was so disappointed when I found out the acc twist :/
absolutely. this is such an obvious twist that would tie everything up into a well-themed, clean finale as the characters come to terms with themself and realize their common opponent
unbelievable the author missed this
The Capital-themed makeup has the same energy as that one “Lorax-approved” car from the Onceler video
I think that Subway trailer caused me psychic damage, holy shit-
@@evies.1018 Same.
@@evies.1018 I physically cringed... Even the voice actor must have wondered where his life had gone.
It's legitimately the sort of thing the Capital would do.
@@boxorak it’s like something that Snow would have suggested in The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes to make the games more “engaging”. Straight-up child murder not going it for you? Try some of this special Hunger Games branded makeup :)!
I feel like you learn everything you need to know about the disconnect between YA dystopia as a literary genre and as a pop cultural phenomenon by comparing the actual text of "The Hunger Games" with the marketing for the movies and the deluge of knock-offs that didn't have anything to actually say with their dystopia (I'm looking at you, Divergent). "The Hunger Games" criticizes everything from the exploitation of the working poor, the sexualization of teens for mass-consumption, the nature of propaganda and the illusion of equal risk (one ticket for everyone, except you can put in more tickets for much-needed rations). It also contains strikingly realistic portrayals of depression and PTSD, among other things. The movies had a tie-in website where you took quizzes like "what's your district," like it was a "What's your ATLA element" or "What's your Hogwarts house?" and not "are you a malnourished agricultural laborer or a member of the petty bourgeoisie?"
nuj
Remember when they turned The Hanging Tree into like, an upbeat pop song??? And then played it on the radio? Or when they made tie-in makeup products literally called the Capitol Beauty Collection??? The marketing for the movies was absolutely wild, it genuinely feels like a parody of itself
Edit: these are literally mentioned in the video, I forgor 💀
god, yes, the dissonance between the actual content of the books and the marketing of the films was WILD. i was a bit outside the intended age range for the novels when they came out- i think i read the first book when i was about 19-20, and was 23 when the first film was released- which i think made me a little more able to notice that mismatch in real time, not just in retrospect, and i remember being startled by it back then too. truly bleak stuff
@@onibeebee i spent all of allegiant enraged at how everyone was so fucking dumb except tris and then mad at myself for wasting 30 bucks and 3 days of my life on that stupid book.
The plot of Divergent was just "what if the SATs, but too much?"
Wildly off topic but every time anyone mentions Josh Hucherson I chuckle because I think of Trapped in a island with Josh Hucherson. What a literary work of art.
oh 100%, i'm surprised this doesn't have more likes, the venn diagram for sarah and jenny is a circle
(For the record I posted this reply when the OP had 22 likes)
There make be snakes.
omg same !!
we stared at each other for 10 minutes
Jenny Nicholson's impact as an influencer in full display
The Hunger Games love triangle is actually pretty cleverly written, but the marketing exaggerated it to the point of irony. It has so much more depth than just "which boy will this girl pick in the end???" (which once again manages to speak on the entertainment we consume as an audience). Katniss never cared for romance, but the Peeta vs Gale debate has more to do with choosing ideals and morality. Peeta represents peace, mercy and kindness, whereas Gale is all about the rebellion and doing what "has" to be done in a war. For Peeta, killing is personal and something that should always be avoided. Gale on the other hand is a hunter, and he mainly hunts by laying traps (unlike Katniss who has to look her prey in the eye every time she takes a life), therefore making the act of killing impersonal - but necessary to sustain himself and his family.
The love triangle ties into other themes as well, like class differences. Peeta is a merchant's child and Gale is from the seam. Katniss thinks Peeta's and her life were worlds apart. She demonstrates this through her internal monologue about her parents - Katniss’s mother made a financial sacrifice when she decided to marry Katniss’s father. It was a decision that made her family abscond her, and countless people know this. Katniss doesn't think highly enough of herself to believe that she alone would be enough to make someone like Peeta risk abandoning what she views as a comfortable town life - therefore Peeta literally does not cross her mind as a romantic interest, even though she has subconsciously taken notice of him; "apparently, I have not been as oblivious to him as I imagined, either. The flour. The wrestling. I have kept track of the boy with the bread." So there might have been feelings that she stored away as unreachable due to the circumstance of their class difference.
In the first games, Katniss does not allow herself to recognize any potential feelings because doing so would put her in severe emotional danger. If Peeta matters to her, his death will be tragic, and Katniss will have to mourn him. Katniss values kindness above all else. Katniss love Prim because of her everlasting and persistent kindness and throughout training Katniss is constantly attempting to determine if Peeta is kind because she is terrified of the fact that he might be. This is why Katniss distances herself from Peeta, and the very second she is given the chance for both of them to go home, she involuntarily screams his name. And while she does play up the romance to an audience she despises, she also has genuine moments with him. Like the kiss that stirs her chest and "makes her want another one". After the two-victor rule is revoked, Katniss knows she would never recover if she impeded not making it out together. “You are not going to leave me alone here’ I say, because if he dies, I’ll never go home. Not really. I'll spend the rest of my life in the arena trying to think my way out.”
She's willing to gamble her life, even if her gamble means dying, because at least she would no longer be playing the Capitol's game anymore. This is exactly what Peeta said to Katniss the night before entering the arena, and Katniss dismissed it because she promised to win for Prim. But now, she's one step away from victory and despite all, willing to die with Peeta. Because it would be on THEIR terms. Her terms. This is what starts the rebellion. Things get complicated when they win because now she HAS to love Peeta by the demands of the Capitol and Snow, which she resents. And on top of this, she's confused because she never expected any type of future with someone like Peeta, and scared to death of the potential consequences of it: ”It’s no good loving me because I’m never going to get married anyway. And he’d end up hating me later instead of sooner. That if I do have feelings for him it doesn’t matter because I will never be able to afford the kind of love that leads to a family, to children. And how can he? After all we’ve been through? I also want to tell him how much I already miss him but that wouldn’t be fair on my part."
I personally believe Katniss unknowingly loved Peeta by the second book, or was at the very least starting to fall for him. My girl is an unreliable narrator, dense, young, insecure, and traumatized as fuck, but she describes a "longing" and "hunger" for him. Heck, she is even filled with a "brief moment of happiness" when dreaming of Peeta's child playing in a future with no games. Which is both foreshadowing as well as a glimpse into her real feelings. So in a way, her "yearning" for Peeta is a yearning for peace as well as developing love. (Side note, but I also find it funny how she cannot imagine herself ever having kids with Gale, but felt "empowered" when Peeta dropped the fake ass baby bomb lmao).
Her "feelings" for Gale on the other hand are all about the expectations of District 12, her home, the woods, and the girl she was before the games. This is why she talks about a future with Gale as obvious and something she ultimately "could" want if they ran away together, even if she doesn't like him romantically at the moment. She can still "learn" to love him. She wants to love Gale for the same reason she wants to be the girl she was before the games. "I wish Peeta were here to hold me, until I remember I'm not supposed to wish that anymore. I have chosen Gale and the rebellion, and a future with Peeta is the Capitol's design, not mine." So the love triangle is ALSO about Katniss navigating trauma and freedom.
There is also the symbolism between bread and hunger. Panem ("panem et circenses" - bread and circuses. Meaning to generate public approval and create distraction from bad governance by satisfying 2 of the most trivial requirements of the population - food (bread) and entertainment (circuses). Panem's citizens focus on watching the Games to see who will win, thereby earning food for their district.) There is also the connection between Peeta - "this boy, Peeta Mellark, and the bread that gave me hope", and marriage (the "toasting" ceremony - toasting bread as a form of shared love ties in to Peeta throwing Katniss the burnt bread). As much as we love to focus on the "games" part of The Hunger Games, "hunger" is equally - if not more - important. For Katniss, hunger is something that she constantly wants to forget. She spent her whole life growing up hungry, and whereas Gale and Katniss were forced to hunt, Peeta bakes - a "coming together" of ingredients. During the Games, Rue’s district sends Katniss a loaf of bread to signal their appreciation for her treatment of Rue. This unprecedented demonstration of solidarity between districts is a threat to the order of the Capitol, which relies on division of the districts in order to maintain control.
Choosing Gale would be Katniss choosing district 12 and revenge. An endless cycle of violence (that ultimately killed her sister, the girl she lived for). We see Katniss reject this way of thinking by killing Coin and ultimately sparing capitol children from participating in a new set of games. Choosing Peeta is choosing Panem as whole, Capitol and districts alike. United under mercy and kindness. It’s a future in which she can allow herself to have kids, a future where she can DARE to love her new Prims and Peetas after having lived a traumatizing childhood in constant fear of them being taken away from her. It’s Katniss satisfying her own hunger by sharing bread (love) with other people. It’s Katniss moving on from merely ”surviving” in order to protect innocent Primroses in a world impossible for them to grow, to truly LIVE for herself by putting her heart on the line and choosing to plant seeds in a world Prim deserved to have lived in.
All in all, the love triangle is super complex and adds to the themes and story of the novels, even though the "romance" part is rather uninteresting. Especially because Gale was never an option if we are talking actual romance, or even the thematically ""correct"" choice.
It's intresting to think that she loved peeta but refused to acknowledge it and felt like she should love gale but didn't. It was like she wanted to defy everything she was supposed to feel including her feelings. I could also see it as her not fully recognizing her feelings because they were never important in keeping her or her family alive but hunger was. So her being "hungry" for peeta is just her only being able to identify her emotions that way because she's emotionally stunted.
This is brilliant. A+
hm, when Gale was injured in the books and Katness would not leave his side at the kitchen table despite hurting Peeta over and over and she knew it, to me as a reader she was more into Gail at that point - probably why they were dating - and not like a brother/cousin. Still some interesting analogies in your post.
oh my god you deserve more likes that was brilliant
this is so well done
i read the “barcode tattoo” series around middle school and the big twist was that the main girl was a bird hybrid and the catalyst for her realizing this was remembering how her mom used to sing “fly away” by nelly furtado and looking back it was. yeah
Was the author high when writing that or something?
What was the point of the barcodes
I read it in middle school too and I completely forgot this twist. As in, I literally can't remember it even after reading about it now. I guess it was so ridiculous that I blocked it out.
From the short description, I thought that it would technically be possible to actually make a decent book out of that idea. I'm not surprised to hear that that didn't happen.
I'm gonna be honest, I never read more than the first book, and think I am gonna keep it that way
“Divergent tells the story of a dangerous dystopian city known as Chicago”
Me, a native Chicagoan: Can confirm, it is a dangerous dystopian city”
We have great food and pretty lights tho
@@RoseEyed Cant argue with that!
Chicago in fiction: Dear God, the government has taken control, we fear for our lives.
Chicago in the real world near future: Oh god, the pizzas now have multiple deep dish layers, we fear for our lives.
@@RoseEyed it is amazing that I can drive 40 minutes north to my friend's apartment and then be able to order any type of food I can think of
then there is Detroit
I'll always hate how Mockingjay was split into two movies. Collins wrote all of the books with the same structure she used with writing television with a clear 3 act structure and nine chapters in each act (hell she makes this even clearer by purposefully putting in the part breaks). I honestly think that's part of the reason why the first two movies were able to be adapted well because it already had a strong structure to them that made it easier to adapt.
Yes!! She literally couldnt have made it easier for screenwriters! And they STILL split it into two because thats what Harry Potter did and it made them good money
i would agree with you if i didn't like both films, but i did, and think that it greatly benefitted the relationships and character interplay. i think the same of dune. it ends on me opening my mouth for another bite, i'm not still chewing but at the same time i'm not full.
the writing was sooooooo glaringly obviously made for a paint by numbers adaptation though, like maze runner hahaha.
@@nailinthefashion The difference is that Dune is over 700 pages long
@@witchfynder_finder a lot of it is philosophical musings, and it's the main reason why it's been so hard to adapt. It's been a balance btwn Lynch's stripped down action flick vs Villeneuve's more breathy take.
I'll always prefer if a book gets multiple adaptations, it's just the kind of long winded story telling I like, so mockingbird didn't feel exhausting 🤷🏾♂️
Yea but epic two part finale 🤪
Seeing Jennifer Lawrences body type in the Hunger Games movies gave me so much confidence as a teenager and I‘m so grateful for her deliberately staying „healthy and strong“ (I think she even talked about gaining muscle mass to become stronger) instead of loosing weight for the role.
that complaint was stupid as fuck anyway. shes literally the only person in the district who can reliably get meat and fresh vegetables/fruits/berries. she needs to hunt, which requires stamina and strength. idk its dumb any way you slice it to me.
i love that she didn’t want to lose weight because she didn’t want young girls to want to be thin like katniss
She's just thin like all others with beauty WHITE privilege
@Caitlyn Castellion I think the bigger underlying issue is: why would girls want the body of someone slowly starving to death? Because who Katniss is. That whole thought process is tragically stupid.
I was so confused when I watched it as a kid because she sure as hell didn't look hungry, and gale was a huge dude with tons of muscle. Definitely not starving.
@@zvezdoblyat I enjoyed the movie, but I remember being quite confused about why it was called the "Hunger" games when nobody looked particularly malnourished. Whereas in the book, there's a great piece of worldbuilding that is entirely Katniss looking at a typical Capitol plat of food and calculating what she'd need to do to have something like that at home.
My parents met during The Lockdown, but my mother couldn’t get The Vaccine while she was pregnant with me, so she died shortly after I was born. The Good Old Party came for my father next, locking him up in the aftermath of The InfoWars.
Now my sister and I attend a regular school divided into a number of groups based on our hair color. Except… I have a secret. My hair is dye-vergent.
you know a bunch of conservative "authors" are writting things like that as we speak. lmao
The most underrated comment, I actually laughed out loud.
Why would they come for your father😭accurate to these stories
@astronomically anomaly ??? This is my autobiography wym
This is the best comment like, ever.
I still can't believe she went this entire video without even mentioning Maze Runner, that series somehow got an entire trilogy of movies and actually finished the story.
And imo they did it poorly 😂
But not before crashing a car into Dylan O’Brien 🤦🏻♀️
@@savannah9903 the first film is good but it goes downhill quick
0:25
@@llynxfyremusic just like the books
As a teen I thought the hunger game's ending was anti-climactic but revisiting it as an adult I thought it was pretty subservice and brilliant. I wanted a singular "chose one" saviour trope, the more realistic idea of a revolution being a long battle with thousands of moving pieces in which you're but a small gear didn't occur to me.
The fragility of a traumatized 17 years old's psyche, suffering through PTSD, didn't occur to me. Not until I was an adult and my perspective on 16 years old moved on to "oh my god, they're just kids".
The Hunger Games stood out in that it was way more mature, realistic and well developed than all the other YA dystopias combined. Even the "boring" stuff like agitating and creating propaganda (in the value-neutral sense of the term), breaking dictatorial censorship to cover abuses in the revolution is crucial. It subverted the rugged individualism of the genre for collective struggle.
It's successors tried to capture it's charm but never had that maturity.
honestly, the propaganda manufacturing is the thing that i remember the most vividly about mockingjay. i legitimately believe that that fucked up my young, bright eyed, ideastic teenage self and made me doubt a lot of shit over the years lmao. as an adult it still hits too close to home
@@asha80801 That did really stand out to me too. Now that I'm more into activism I realized how crucial propaganda is. Even the correct idea needs propagandising or you're not getting anywhere, because the mainstream media is inherently pro-status quo and will use propaganda against you anyway. It will be used to separate you from your natural allies through misinformation so you have to counter it. Just see how BLM was depicted for example.
@@asha80801 yup, I've read the series in elementary school, and although at the time i didn't understand some concepts (i was in fucking elementary school), it really shaped the way i view certain things, one of them being if i remember correctly the cat faced capitol citizen and other capitol citizens as well, who despite being well off were also deeply harmed by the system, that made me think a lot as a kid
Its been a long time since ive read them, but I think my problem is it wasn't written in an interesting way. Like all of that sounds cool described on paper but once you get to the actual writing of the book it felt like Katniss was a zombie. If it wasn't told explicitly from her perspective all of that could be really cool to read about but Katniss didn't give a fuck about it so why should I?
I love how in all of Sarah’s videos you see the background outside slowly turn from day to night, showing how long she’s been ranting abt this stuff
Ah yes, A Bone of Thorn and Bone, about a peasant princess girl who’s the youngest eldest daughter with a terrible secret and hidden superpower, both of which everyone knows about.
Is this a reference to something specific, or just YA trends I've failed to keep up with?
@@timothymclean lmaooo this is a joke about a court of thorn and roses, a YA novel that’s full of smut and terrible characters
Why did I think Elsa from frozen
@@Mia-sc5dz Oh man, I just checked that out at my local library. I can't wait to laugh my ass off.
@@Mia-sc5dz I feel like it's an amalgamation of a court of thorn and roses, red queen, shadow and bone, and a few others that are all "young girl has superpower and it's because she is secretly royal."
The idea that problems can be solved by "getting rid of the bad people" is probably the root of most of our problems as a society.
See also: the 2020 US Presidential Election
we need to get rid of the bad people promoting these ideas >:(((
I mean, they can always check into the reeducation camps voluntarily
**glances vaguely in the general direction of SU crits**
Yeah... that’s one of the problems I have with superhero or “vigilante” stories (which pain me a lot because I really like them). Societal and systematic problem are reduced to “if we beat the bad guy the day is saved” with its easier but not a true solution, just tackling a symptom instead of the problems (I suppose that’s one of the escapists elements of those stories, the false dream that complex problems can be solved with simple solution).
I still remember walking into a Barnes & Noble during Hunger Games Hype and they had a special Capitol face-painting activity to celebrate some HG book/movie release. Basically: children, come get your face painted like the fascists in this dystopian book series! It was the weirdest disconnect between source material and Fun Marketing Ploy.
You mean like everyone's Darth Vader masks? Hey kids dress up as someone who would have killed you if you were special in this world.
The Lorax-branded SUV from a previous video still destroys my brain thinking about it
@@indoor_vaping dreamcatchers in cars have my mixed ass asking when you lost your home.
That's similar to the Simpsons episode with the Watchmen Babies
Absolutely will never forgive my 9th grade English teacher who was also the school cheerleading coach and quit after one year of barely being present in the first place, who had us deviate from the standard curriculum and read Divergent instead of Fahrenheit 451.
NOO
HOW did she get away with that? I must know more.
@@niallreid7664 my state was like 50th in education for a reason LMAO. They absolutely did not care and probably preferred that it was something less "controversial".
lol my freshman English HONORS teacher skipped over Shakespeare
I read the hunger games as well in school. But like in grade 6. In 9th grade we only did real old German dramas.
Hunger Games's love triangle is a pretty awesome tool to show how little control over her life Katniss had. She spent her teenage life being the family's provider, had to enter the games, kill people, deal with PTSD and survivor's guilt, become the face of a rebellion and struggle for dear life of hers and her loved ones - all the while being forced to continuously keep up appearances for the cameras. And then there's two guys who accuse her of being indecisive. INDECISIVE! She didn't have the luxury to explore her options, she couldn't develop her chemistry with Gale because Snow kept watching, she couldn't develop her relationship with Peeta at a healthy and comfortable pace because the situation demanded drastic jumps between milestones that would otherwise take years. She didn't get to live her life as a normal teenager should, and the love triangle was part of her overall tragedy.
Meanwhile, ironically, we as the extension of her audience contributed to it with the Team Peeta/Team Gale nonsense.
You are so right, Katniss is literally forced to choose between her childhood best friend or the guy who she has to marry to save her family because of Snow. And it might seem like her childhood best friend (who is played by an attractive actor) is the best choice, but she still has doubts because she never thought of him like that until he confessed, at which point she's already won The Hunger Games and has to marry Peeta.
Not to mention part of her struggle was the fact that she was presented with options that would have made her life easier at the expense of her self worth. While it wasn't explicitly stated, prostitution was the unspoken method by alot of younger girls to survive. The only reason why she didn't become a prostitute/ have sex occasionally with older men for food or money is because she could hunt.
Wait, people were team Gale?
I think it's lazy writing and truly toxic, I beg everyone and their mom to run if ever finding yourself in such a messed up situation as that before someone has to die in order to choose or be chosen.
@@franciscoancer2618 she is not, she could've said no to both.
Oh god. The amount of old I felt hearing someone “had to read the hunger games for school” is ASTRONOMICAL
I had to do that as a sophomore in high school
nah, don't; we read it in english class while the hype was still running and the films were not all released yet. No indication of being old because of that. We ain't old. 😶
I think that means the three of you are decidedly not all that old then. No one I'm aware of who is 30 or older would have been assigned these books in high school as they were barely even released at that time.
@@vincenthagood349 yeah, I graduated 4 years prior to the book's release. The most modern book we read in school was The Joy Luck Club.
i read it freshman year in hs
"a dangerous dystopian city known as chicago" killed me, that delivery was so good
But would you be laughing if she called it "The Chicago" instead? I don't think so.
@@armleg "Be careful out there. You don't want 'The Raiders' to catch you past curfew, or you'll be sent to 'The Chicago' to be sold into slavery"
“You better be careful out there in The Chicago. If they catch you out after The Curfew, they’ll feed you to The Bears and then thrown your remains onto The Bean.”
Does that make Detroit a super-dystopia?
@@samt3412 THE Detroit. Yes.
I think other dystopian ya did so badly were the way they automatically treat adult characters as irrationally evil to the readers/viewers face. Hunger Games respects the adult characters and gave people like Haymitch, Effie, and President Snow personalities that are naturally adult with adult confilcts.
One subtle but very clever thing I liked about the first HG book was that--yes, the Capitol does lots of evil things, but none of the Capitol characters ever do anything personally evil where Katniss / the audience can see it. Most of them are just people doing their jobs, or are endearingly silly or mildly annoying media people. Even Snow comes off largely as an affable grandfather figure. The evil is faceless and systemic, making it harder to rally against.
One of my favorite anecdotes from college was a writing professor and mentor sitting me down after a very harsh editing session and saying, "Look, I mentored this one girl a few years ago. Her book was terrible. I worked with her for months and months and months and it never got better, it only got worse. Now it's a best-selling Dystopian YA series with a movie on the way. You're going to be just fine."
Which college was it??
@@chloe._. I don't want to say too much for fear of bringing the internet down on a professor for something he said candidly to me, in private, but you can probably guess the author and school from context clues in this video and a little wikipedia investigation.
@@Narokkurai Ah yeah, I get it. Sorry, I didn't mean to be intrusive like that. I was already 99% sure you were talking about Roth and was hoping for confirmation, but you needn't say more.
@@chloe._. Respecting privacy. Love to see it.
Holy shit your professor is my personal hero
Ill never forget after seeing the first movie my roommate was so disappointed Rue & Thrash were Black. When the rest of us pointed out that in the book they were described as “dark skinned” she said she thought they meant “olive toned”. Our relationship never recovered.
She and many others exposed their own racism. They refused to believe that a character they liked and sympathizes with was Black..
As a kid I think I read the books after the movies so I pictured the movie. But I remember vividly that Katniss was olive toned, she was described like that. Whereas Rue and Thrash were described as having dark skin. I’m pretty sure Rue’s hair is also described as textured? It’s crazy to me that people would read it and picture all of the districts, that represent North America, as Caucasian? It’s mad
@@witchplease9695 I feel like many also refused to believe that Rue, a black girl, could be portrayed as completely innocent, and flawless, which is to get across how cruel the games are ofc. I just think it’s not even empathy, they refuse to see black people as being wholly innocent
I was so confused when people were weirded out by Rue being black in the movie. I was like "You read this book, right?"
you don't need that shit in your life tbh!
Also I’ve felt so alone in my beef with Divergent. “Only my friends and I are real people”. It would be one thing if the society said that people were one dimensional and everyone discovered they weren’t. But the fact that some people are genetically just, “more real” is bleh
I don’t think the point of Mockingjay was “both sides bad”. To me, it read more that Coin was a false savior who portrayed herself as a rebel because she wanted the power Snow had. There are several commanders in the rebel side (Paylor, Boggs, Heavensbee, etc) that are truly in the rebellion to overturn the system. Coin was willing to kill innocents, but not everyone in command on the rebel side knew that that was her plan, only a select few (of course it’s entirely possible I’m misremembering, I’m due for a re-read of the whole series).
Something I heard that feels relevant to this conversation is the story of how the 'uglies' series was never able to get a movie adaptation- it's a series with a main theme of dismantling beauty standards after all, and Hollywood just couldn't figure out how to market it, despite trying several times
I think the problem with Uglies from an adaptation perspective is both how expensive it would be, and also how hard all the constant detailed character transformations per book. Certain details and transformations might be hard to pull off even with today's special effects. I think they could do it but it would take the perfect studio and the perfect budget.
@@KaiInMotion I always thought it would make an incredible animated film or series (which would solve many of these issues) but back then (and even now tbh) adult animation wasn't much of thing in Western media.
Uglies was one of my favourite series as a preteen. I theorised that they might cast a different actress for Tally as an ugly, a pretty and a special, but that would probably result in the character feeling like three different people. And SFX would probably end up in Uncanny Valley territory.
At least if there is no adaptation, there is no *bad* adaptation.
Were there attempts to adapt it? I didn't know that.
I was waiting for a mention of this series. I was obsessed with this as a teen and let all my friends borrow my copies since I had the whole set. I still reread it every once in a while
This might be a specific tangent: I think the Hunger Games movie shortening Cato’s death lost the horror of it. In the book he is attacked by the mutts for what is described as hours, and the moment when she decides to use her last arrow to end his suffering is tense. That’s her last arrow. And then Cato mouths “please” and she finishes him out of pity. I’m sure the movie had to shorten it, but the tension of Peeta and Katniss waiting on top of the cornucopia, hearing his endless suffering just willing it to end. I always saw it as an exercise of the Capitols power: they force Katniss to be the one to end the game. The game makers control everything, there is no way they couldn’t have had the mutts take out Cato quickly. No, they draw it out so Katniss has to be the one that finishes the game. She has to take another life. Even though she does it out of mercy after her asks, it’s still an arrow she shoots.
I know this is super late but: That last arrow was also the only thing keeping Peeta's leg from bleeding out because she turned it into a tourniquet. By forcing her to use that arrow they also force her (and Peeta) to make the decision to risk his life so Cato's suffering will finally end. If they hadn't thought of the berries, Peeta would have quickly succumbed to his leg injury and Katniss would have been the sole winner and she would have probably also carried the guilt of taking away the only thing keeping Peeta from bleeding out (even though his leg would have killed him in the end anyway).
damn
Also a key detail I always hated that they removed was that the mutts had collars with the district numbers on them and they were designed to resemble the fallen tributes. That’s why katniss sees them in her nightmares because she keeps seeing glimmer’s eyes in one of the mutts
I hated that they wrote out Peeta’s amputation in the books. It was always an important factor and Katniss felt personally responsible for him losing his leg. She felt that guilt and it wore on her mental health a lot
@@Manon-nk4qu oh shit I completely forgot about that detail. I gotta reread these books dude
I honestly believe that the Hunger Games subway adds are canon to the Hunger Games universe in which they are adds put out by the capital to promote the games.
Haha, that would be great!
Ads for fancy bread in the capitol, starvation in the districts. It fits perfectly!
Imagine making an ad so out of place it would fit in the dystopian child killing alternative universe that your trying to capitalise on
I love this thank you
I love the idea that subway still exists centuries into the future, having survived climate change and the rise of an overtly fascist United States.
@@aluminumcurtain Fascists love enterprises. Unless those belong to somebody of and "undesirable" group, they'll lick the capitalists' asses.
The thing that killed dystopian fiction for me personally was the realization that I already live in a dystopian hellscape. I want fiction where things can be better.
Well said. Same
So basically a half dystopia and half utopia fiction story or book, yeah I agree with you
@@yellowstarproductions6743the problem is utopia isn’t real.
Even in Star Trek so far back you could see the seeds of things that sorta shake the idea Rodenberry had and now after a war Star Trek is just another dystopian sci-fi universe
Jesus Christ, don’t cut yourself on all that edge.
@@jgamer2228 nothing edgy about believing society can be changed for the better
Watching Domino’s make Squid Games promo material has been giving me serious flashbacks to that ‘brands trying to capitalise on an anti-capitalist story’ of the HG era
I need to google this immediately brb
As a wise man once said, 'capitalism doesn't care if you hate it, in fact it can repackage your hate for it and sell it back to you wrapped in neon chrome for 60 dollars', or something along those lines.
@@Wizuu0274 do you know ow who said that
@@EvoluteCreator I don't know who said that specific quote but Mark Fisher expressed similar sentiment in his book "Capitalist Realism"..
this is taken from wikipedia :
"According to Fisher, capitalist realism has so captured public thought that the idea of anti-capitalism no longer acts as the antithesis to capitalism. Instead, it is deployed as a means for reinforcing capitalism. This is done through media which aims to provide a safe means of consuming anti-capitalist ideas without actually challenging the system."
@@EvoluteCreator Noah Caldwell gervais said that line in his cyberpunk 2077 video. not sure if it's from somewhere else though
'a noun of nouns and nouns'
*sheds a tear*
truly revolutionary
@@Bazzi69 im going to out myself now: I've read it and it was alright. But you mostly read it for the big battles and the..."explicit" stuff. But it's not the worst book I've ever read, there is stuff to enjoy if you look for it 😅
I guess George RR Martin started this trend?
sarah z: the late 90's and early 2000's gave us stuff like "shade's children", a dystopia about how fucked up it would be if all the adults in the world disappeared, and "gone", a dystopia about how fucked up it would be if all the adults in the world disappeared--
me: [nods sagely] jimmy neutron
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thought of this because it was literally the first thing to pop into my head lol
I thought of "The Tribe"
Wasn’t that the tribe
I thought of that Young Justice episode
Ultra despair girls?
The genius of the hunger games books wasn't truly revealed until the movies were made and marketed the exact same way the actual games were marketed in-universe. The #TeamPeeta vs #TeamGale thing, the nerfing of the suicide pact, the dance remix of Hanging Tree, this series was such a thorough skewering of the society of the spectacle that it actually predicted what our society would do with it after it was released.
is that a motherfucking Guy Debord reference?
HungerGames may be what becomes of our Idiocracy when try to get our shit 2gethr.
The hunger games will always hold a special place in my heart. I am indigenous and with olive skin so I really felt connected to katniss. I learned how to braid my hair like her and wore my hair like that for years. When I would go on bush walks I’d run around and pretend to be hunting(despite being a vegetarian). I was 12 when the first movie released so she felt like a cool older sister which I aspired to be like
That's really cool man :)
It's sad that "I hate this book because they made me read it in school" is such a common thing. Some of my favorite books (Grendel, Invisible Man, Persepolis) I only ever read because of a class. It sucks that English classes are so bad that it makes great books feel awful.
Same. I had a really positive experience with the required reading. It probably helps that my teachers were really intelligent and entertaining.
@@Minam0 Yeah, I think the teachers may be a big factor. For example, I don't like "Walden; or, Life in the Woods", but I have such fond memories of discussing it for English class that I don't think I could ever throw away my annotated copy.
It will ruin any book if you are reading it at the pace of one chapter a week, pulling apart every word. That isn't how books are made to be read.
Yep. That's why I loathe Great Expectations by Charles Dickens. Most boring book ever.
@@vylbird8014 exactly not every book is filled with analogies and philosophical symbolism
Oh yeah, the five genders: nice, honest, farmer, Slytherin and parkour.
☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️
The guy from the "it ain't much, but it's honest work" meme is a farmer/honest divergent
I'm a towel
Oh no, I'm nice and honest. I guess that makes me nonquintary.
It's always bugged me that 3 of the names are nouns and the other two are verbs
I'm just thinking watching this that vaguely remembering that Veronica Roth is Christian and having liked the Divergent books as a catholic teenager in a very conservative household i think honestly the main fantasy of Divergent is a kind of christian rock feeling of "you can be a good person and wear eyeliner and your parents can't tell you to only wear grey and give up everything fun" and i hope someone has done a close read of this take
"Why would anyone want to be anything other than Dauntless?" Uh...because as a physically unfit, chronically ill teenager, Dauntless was all my worst nightmares in one place. Amity always sounded the best. It's quiet and peaceful, and you get to be a farmer.
Yknow I respect that. Fuck yeah farming district
farming is like 86% intense physical labor tho :(
I get your point but the thing that i remember the most about the amity is the fact that their bread is drugged so that they are always happy and chill and their anger is being controlled and suppressed. Not very nice imo
It’s honestly super problematic how so much of the “bravery” in Dauntless boils down to just being fit and able-bodied. If you get Dauntless as the result of the testing ceremony and then aren’t in shape enough to make it through the months of intense physical training (where the lower-ranking people would get cut and made “factionless”), you’re just tossed out and worse off than before since you can’t go back to your birth faction and are cut off from your family. You’re not Dauntless enough, never mind that bravery as a concept has nothing to do with how well you can fistfight. And that’s not even touching how you need to be able to jump from a train in order to even get into Dauntless. Like would a Dauntless initiate in a wheelchair or some sort of leg injury or something not be able to get in at all? Plus the entire faction (iirc) is also some weird su!cide cult where once you’re too old to parkour or whatever you’re supposed to end your life and the weird way that Al taking his life is handled in the book. It’s just all around a mess when it comes to physical and mental health.
@@caterinapicco7316 that's the best part imo :)
There’s this part in City of Ember where the main character realizes that nobody alive in the whole city understands how the ancient engine that’s powering everything actually works and they’re just sort of slowly patching little pieces of it up as it inevitably falls apart and dies… and I think about that every f-ing week.
The Internet, circa 2050.
So basically the premise of The Foundation.
@@riley8385 Scp foundation
There’s this thing about city of ember where it’s James “child groomer” Charles’s favorite book and so I can never look at it the same
@@riley8385 kind of except it’s told from the perspective of the descendants who don’t realize at first that they’ve totally lost track of what the plan for the city was supposed to be. And they have to put the pieces together. The planners don’t have psycho-history on their side either.
Me, looking up Save the Pearls and reading the synopsis: "What, it's just an ordinary dysto-- OH MY GOODNESS!"
“Do you think this premise is racist?”
“In a cosmic sort of way, yes”
Me hearing the title: hmmm sounds like an interesting name
Sees synopsis: how the hell did this get published
Me: it can't be that bad, lemme check wiki
Me: oh. Oh no.
@@TheCoolCryptid the author actually owns the publishing house
Oh my god it just kept getting worse and worse lmao
I think the public “downfall” of Jennifer Lawrence among women could also be due to the fact that a lot of the female fan base of the hunger games series was reaching that point of maturity, where they realized it’s fine to be like other girls, other girls are great, and loudly trying not to be is cringe. And JL pretty much built her whole brand off being not like other girls/actresses. Like yes I think some people did just get tired of it, but I think it came at that time where the older gen z/younger millennial women were really confronted with dismantling their own internalized misogyny.
So the revelation in Allegiant is that what makes Tris "superspecial" is being literally just as average as any person reading the books? Most escapist literature give their protagonist an unique hability to make them special, the Divergent Saga isntead took away basic mental habilities from everybody else, and I find that funny.
I just couldn't keep reading when that was revealed. Killed it for me.
So Divergent is basically a teen retelling of Idiocracy.
@@jonnystoffel sort of... the similarities are uncanny
See, what's special about Tris is that she's normal.
To be fair, that does sound wonderfully dystopic. If I understood it correctly, that the citizens in universe there, were mentally stunted in different ways by their gov.
I can’t tell you how much of a relief it is to hear you say divergent is just kinda bad. My high school had a whole month long class about it and I hated it. We had to make our own factions and I was so pissed I tried to make it the most normal human trait imaginable.
What trait was it? Breathing? Blinking? Genuinely curious
@@notjohnbruno1522 Ppl who have slightly darker hair than brown but not qutie black are the most oppressed people by society
What was the trait?
Divergent is soooo bad omg. Like okay. The first book was OKAY. Then the second book Tris was OOC. THEN there’re the last book. I need the last book to be set on fire….
I went to see the film and thought it was okay. It was enough to get me to read the book, hoping that it just didn't translate well to film.
Was disappointed to discover it was the other way round and the film had made the best of a bad lot.
One thing I liked about the first Hunger Games movie was how they did the in-universe coverage of the Games. The sets and tone were exactly the same as, say, Sportscenter, only instead of clips of football playing in the background while the hosts talked about the upcoming game, it was of kids killing each other. The next movies moved away from that motif as the series moved away from the violence as entertainment theme, but it was a nice touch while it lasted.
This was my favorite parts of the first HG movie too. They took Katniss' internal, first person monologues and made it sportscaster style cutaways with Caesar. Brilliant adaptation choice.
The hanging tree remix brought back some crazy memories. When I was obsessed with the books, I'd have my kindle play them on text-to-speech all the time, especially going to bed. It was SUPREMELY creepy to wake up in pitch darkness because a robot is whispering murder poetry directly into your ear.
The thing about the HG love triangle, and especially how it’s resolved, that really works for me is the understanding that I think Gale *would* have been the obvious choice in a different world, i.e. one where Prim wasn’t reaped and Katniss didn’t end up in the arena. Both her sharing that specific trauma with Peeta and the war driving her and Gale apart morally ends up sealing the deal for Katniss/Peeta being the only viable choice. Re-reading Mockingjay as an adult, I really appreciated the nebulous sense of sadness and pain that comes with loving someone whose fundamental values have diverged from yours, in a way that makes your relationship untenable (Gale is willing to commit war crimes for a perceived greater good, Katniss feels that doing so defeats the purpose of fighting for said greater good in the first place, etc.) It’s really tragic, and felt very politically relevant during my 2020 re-read. Which boy she picks is ultimately the metaphorical answer to the just war dilemma laid out in the books, so it’s serving an important functional purpose theme wise and is also why I can mostly give the weaker characterization for both boys (and especially Peeta) a pass. Would it have been a better story if Peeta had been a more complete feeling, fleshed out character? Probably, but as is he’s mostly acting as a cipher, and I think that’s ok for a book that was always at its strongest when it was utilizing its smaller interpersonal drama to speak about its broader dystopian themes.
Intresting take and I agree!
It also shows how war changes and drives people apart and brings out the most brutal part of a person. It's so clear in Gales character but also in his relationship with Katniss. They were so similar in the beginning but their experiances and actions in the rebelion/war made them into different people.
It's also, obviously, a very anti-war story, and it makes me a little angry how that part of it is often a little glossed-over. The point isn't that both sides are bad. The point is that violence of any kind, even when necessary, is bad. That's why Katniss kills Coin instead of Snow at the end. Snow's already dead. Coin is the remaining threat.
The melancholy ending is also a peaceful one. The dream of peace has come true, at a terrible cost.
@@arigadatred5395 but isn’t killing someone violence. I feel like that hurts your argument that all violence is bad and unnecessary when you’re fine with a violent ending
Joelle Grr The point is Katniss is traumatized by the violence she commits, regrets it even while knowing it's necessary, etc. She doesn't salivate over or try to justify the violence, she knows it's awful. Whereas people like Gale have a genuine sense of bloodlust that allows them to justify and *want* to continue to commit violence. You can have a violent ending or have the "good" characters committing violence while still condemning it and sending an anti-violence message. In fact it's very hard to show an anti-violence message and properly condemn violence without showing it first and displaying the actual trauma and consequences of it, which THG does.
Killing Snow would have been a symbolic act that gave Katniss nothing but maybe a fleeting feeling of vengeance; he was bound and dead either way. Coin on the other hand was free, in power, and was more of a threat of continued violence and evil to the people of Panem. In killing her Katniss stopped another Hunger Games from happening, to me that sends a clear anti-violence message. Katniss commits an act of violence to stop further acts of violence. Half the point of the series is examining when and how violence is justified and who it's used against and what reasons people come up with to absolve themselves, but I think one of the few characters who is pretty much in the clear is Katniss, seeing as she didn't seek out a violent life, hated every moment of it, and returned to a peaceful existence the moment she was able.
@@KaiInMotion adding to this, it’s very telling that Katniss’s plan was to kill Coin *and then herself.* There’s this very real fear that with someone like Coin in power the cycles of abuse/violence will just continue under new management. A murder suicide is the best she can do as a rogue, individual agent to try and close the loop. Consequential retaliation + reparations isn’t something Gale ever stops to think about from Katniss’s POV, so this again serves to highlight where they diverged as people.
STOPPPPP DAUNTLESS BEING DESCRIBED AS "the theatre kids parkouring all over Denny's at 3:00am" IS ABSOLUTELY KILLING ME.
Okay but hear me out: the bit from the end of Mockingjay where Katniss is thinking about why she chose to be with Peeta instead of Gale. She says that Peeta brings out softness, kindness, and Mercy in her. Where Gale is more like a fire that would consume them both. and I think that's a really good analogy for what trauma did to the three of them and what it does to people in general.
Gale was still ready to keep fighting, and willing to go much further than Katniss would have to beat the capitol and make sure things kept changing. He literally helped Beetee design bombs that had a secondary, delayed detonation to kill medics/ anyone trying to help the injured and then dropped those bombs on children.
Compared to Peeta who was so vehemently against holding one last hunger Games with children from the capitol.
I think Team Peeta vs Team Gale says a lot about what a person values and how they would react in that sort of situation. and how Katniss very pointedly chooses mercy and kindness is so profound, especially in a dystopia story
this is exactly why i was team peeta
honestly hunger games started and peaked the genre
I mean, Katniss DID kinda just whatevs the idea of holding that last Hunger Games, herself.
@@IncredibleMD which is another reason why she needed Peeta way more than Gale
@@lia8232 She's far better off without either of them.
I think the popularity of the Dystopian YA novel had a lot to do with the 2010s pop culture. Everything was colourful and lighthearted, music was very fun, TH-cam brought comedy sketches and Zoella hauls to teens…It was very much a lighthearted time compared to later years, so I think the Dystopian YA was so enjoyable because it felt a lot darker than real life. But post 2016, and especially now, it feels too close to home and people want stories that give them that fluffy feeling of the early 2010s.
I’ll be honest, Tris dying at the end of allegiant was one of the greatest shocks to my young adult mind. I didn’t know books could just do that.
Same! I won't lie, the ending totally ruined the series for me since it came as too jarring to my young adult mind.
I remember crying at that moment...in front of a cousin that was starting to read the series. That's probably the most memorable thing of that book.
Omg this is a massive spoiler for me !!! I realize I never knew the end of that série !!! And I bought the book to know it but never actually read it xD
@@lolalavrai Yeah, I do think this really should have been spoiler tagged 😬
Low key the way that divergent killed off its characters had me convinced for years that my book wouldn't be a Real Book unless I killed off at least 1 character per book. Preferably more
“even though gale is the obvious choice” my peeta mellark loving ass got so offended hearing that.
Gale “war criminal, sister murderer” Hawthorne is absolutely NOT the obvious choice
i actually gasped and had to take a lap around my room before continuing when i heard it
!!!!!!
the way i almost stopped watching... sarah what was the REASON
I legit think she misspoke here. Gale is barely in the books at all, and is always an asshole to her, specifically. Whether you like Peeta or not, Gale was never even in the running, and it's bizarre she says this as part of the "it's not really a love triangle story" point when in the books she ends up with Peeta. If Gale is the obvious choice, it basically by definition is a love triangle story.
the owl house did a better job at critiquing the sorting people into factions thing in a single 20 minute episode than divergent did in three several hundred page books.
Honestly, that comment is relevant for most failed fiction, isn't it?
The choosy hat! It broke free!
The Owl House flips so many tired young adult tropes into compelling worldbuilding tools and arcs. It’s honestly brilliant.
@@liamshanley4920 the magic system and world building is one of my favorite parts of the show it’s amazing. hoping disney will come to their senses and give them a full season 3 and hopefully renew them for more
To be fair The Owl House is an amazing show with some of the best worldbuilding in recent times, so most shows are gonna struggle doing as good as TOH in this field.
1:05:20 this is funny because as of now The Hunger Games franchise has made a HUGE resurgence online. With the movies now being on Netflix it seems people are talking about it again. Honestly the timing couldn’t be more perfect with the new prequel movie coming out later this year. I haven’t seen this much hype for the franchise in years- we’ll see how long it lasts but it’s kind of nice seeing the books and movies get the appreciation they deserve. Suzanne Collins is an incredible author and the books have aged so well with many topics being relevant today
Even more so now with TBOSAS
Ok hot take but I don't find Suzanne Collins's writing very good at all. Still love the story she created though!
It's a small thing, but it does always frustrate me when people discuss the Hunger Games around the romance and violence. It was a big part of the themes and story that Katniss didn't want to be involved with any of it. Even in the final book her choice between Gale and Peeta was more about what they represented about her trauma and future rather than any romance. It's one of the best books I've ever seen which highlights what pressures and a lack of agency feels like, especially as a girl.
It's a reason why I don't think the final book ended in a "both sides are bad" thesis. Killing Coin was the one choice Katniss felt like she could make to stop more children like her sister dying, even if it was flawed. Katniss was extremely traumatised, lashed out, and was a teenage girl who shouldn't have been forced to do the things she did
I loved THG ending, I had to explain to a few people it wasn't about romance at all.
I think a lot of people miss that she was forced to be a figureheard for the revolution while just wanting to like, hunt and shiz. from memory after a while she only really seems comfortable in the hunger games, because that's where she gets any amount of agency
That's definitely one of the worse side effects of having to censor the series for the movies because there's a lot a lot of stuff that has to get ignored to even explain how genuinely fucked up katniss was by the end of the story. And why the ending with her trying to feel ok about having children is just a great demonstration that she not only has healed a bit but also that *she was traumatized for life*
she was exploited for her aesthetics emphasising why basing politics and movements on them is flawed
everything turned into being aesthetically motivating or moving. (cough cough neoliberal commentary)
the ending made it clear Katniss suffer from ptsd
so I'm not even 30 minutes in and THANK YOU for pointing out the marketing of the love triangle as being reflective of the Capitol!! I've been saying for years that the biggest irony of The Hunger Games movies is that the marketing put us, the viewers, into the role of that Capitol peoples, lavishly enjoying the drama and romance of literal children literally murdering each other for our entertainment and NO ONE realized.
Ok, pressing play again.
The thing is, I get it. It is super interesting to watch the events of a hunger game unfold, and wonder ''what if x character did this instead of this?''. It's like a tag game with really high stakes.
my gut answer to "what killed the YA dystopia?" is always "divergent"
lol yeah the moment she said "and what happened?" I immediately was just like yep, divergent, divergent killed the genre
The level of research and bridging everything together, the way you tell the narrative of the trends. Super impressive. Thank you so much.
The most wild thing to me was Lawrence being criticized for looking "too healthy" to play a main character that had grown up struggling for food.
They wanted her to starve herself to look more gaunt and realistic. Translation: they wanted to create suffering for the sake of entertainment.
The irony.
Good point. Though I do kinda wish they had CGIed Katniss during the flashback to her first interaction with Peeta where he gave her bread and she's pretty much at death's door from starvation. Like they CGIed him to look utterly gaunt after his torture in the Capitol. Didn't need to be that much, but maybe a little to make that feel more urgent.
They could have done it without actually making her unhealthy, mainly via makeup. They could have given her dark circles and desaturated her skin colour slightly, for instance. They could have made her lips look chapped and given her skin conditions that occur from malnutrition. They could have used minor sculpting to give her prominent cheekbones to create a gaunt appearance, alongside minor computer effects/filters to make it look more realistic.
Don't they just mean make her look unhealthy? With makeup etc. Why'd you come to that horrible conclusion lol
@@casie6609 Because makeup and special effects can only do so much. Actors starving themselves for specific roles is way more common than you think. Ex: Bale in the Machinist, McConaughey AND Leto in Dallas Buyer's Club, etc etc. The practice is as old as Hollywood itself.
@@natkatmac I do know about it and it's horrible. I was just thinking about it because the stuff they can do with makeup is crazy nowadays. Especially with the face, making people look like they're literally dying. It seems like they could do it
People in Distopians: Alright, time to go to The Breakfast™ at The Cafe™, so I can be sustained for The Test™, which takes place at The School™.
I must join The Breakfast Club
@@-topic9506 or else The Government™️ will get you
Each proper noun accompanied by the Vine boom sound effect
@@wind_reader now i cant read it without hearing the boom
The funny thing is I read a YA dystopian novel called Feed by M.T. Anderson where students went to School™
I loved it though. Extremely bleak.
Hunger Games series: "Our love triangle starts off as deliberately artificial to comment on the typical tropes."
Hunger Games marketing: "Our you Team Gale or Team Peeta?"
Ain't it fun when someone instantly proves a satirical work's point?
i think my favorite part about divergent is how it was such a genre staple to make all these cool dystopian names for your countries and settings, and like you have that with the factions, but the city itself is literally just chicago.
33:56 “If you can tell where the story is going than the story did its job.” That’s literally the first time I ever heard someone say that. I think many prospective writers are under the impression that if the audience knows where the story is going, you didn’t get the twist right.
Yeah, y'know, I think a lot of my favorite stories hardly ever left me surprised. I was so sucked in, with multiple predictions, I never cared too much about twists I saw coming as long as they made sense. I feel like that's how a lot of others consume media as well, just wanting a story that's enticing and makes sense, rather than one that's confusing.
@@kalkdog8809 I think the reason people feel like they need to surprise the audience comes from the mystery genre and migrated to other media due to the popularization of twist endings. Personally, I think twists are fine so long as they make sense in retrospect, but it doesn’t always occur to me that the twist itself is often unnecessary.
I think stories that had foreshadowing have more rewatch/reread value anyway because you know to look for all the little clues and stuff!
@@kalkdog8809 yeah the best stories leave you satisfied, not surprised.
@@lesbiantree6464 yes
In regards to how Divergent fails to criticize the faction system, I remember reading in the back of my copy of one of the books, I can't remember which now and my copies are long gone, an interview with Veronica Roth. One of the questions posed to her was "What would be your utopia?" and she said something along the lines of "I think I got really close with the world in Divergent," and that should tell you everything you need to know about how she's writing dystopian fiction: she's not.
What the actual everloving fuck?
The characters in these books - with the exception of Tris - are not even what we consider humans according to the third book!
I cannot think of any place other than maaaaayyybe Erudite where you wouldn't suffer endlessly.
At least there you can use the excuse of research and stay on your own. Candor won't let you have secrets, Amity drugs you, Abnegation is pathologically self-denying, and Dauntless is just "what if soldiers but they are frat boys".
The actual quote is her explaining that she had to come up with a utopia for a college class, invented the first version of the faction caste system, and then realized shortly after she'd actually created a horrific dystopia. And that half of the point their professor gave them the assignment for was to realize why all dystopias are failed utopias. It was hardly her blithely saying the world of Divergent is a fun one she wants to live in.
Kinda disagree that real people don't use "The Common Noun" to describe important events or concepts. In the past century we've had The Great War, The Great Depression and The Holocaust (where holocaust was a word used to describe atrocities before it started describing a specific one.
We've also got things like "The Net"/"The Web" "The Crown" "The Church" etc
While I've never taken "The Exam" I did recently get "The Jab"...
I personally love referring to stores as "The Walmart" and "The McDonalds." It sounds like they're some sort of government compound. It adds pizzazz.
@@crypticcorvid And then there's us Aussies who call Woolworths Woolies, McDonald's Macca's (to the point where some stores have Macca's on their signs), and if we did have a Walmart, we'd be calling it Wallie's.
@@Mikowmer I want an Australian Dystopian novel where all the important landmarks/historical events are just given those kinds of names now lmao.
“The” mostly implies something you and your conversation partner know about.
“I’m feeding the cat”, or “I’m going to the store.”
I get the attempt of familiarity here, but it does begin to annoy at some point.
Almost feels like these stories are written by Teen Titans Star Fire
Imagine a world where impressionable teens spend years preparing for an examination, the results of which can significantly alter their immediate futures or perhaps the course of their entire lives... Imagine the world of... The SATs
I love seeing the daylight slowly fade away in the background as the video progresses.
I still can't get over the fact that Suzanne Collins got away with writing "[the fish soup's] saltiness reminds me of my tears"
LOL as she should 😭😂 she made up for it with the quality of the spinoff novel
The amount of people I remember seeing back in 2011-2012 that were genuinely mad about Rue and Thresh being played by black actors was so strange and honestly feels like a fever dream. I distinctly remember quite a few people online that claimed Rue was obviously written as a white girl because, and no I’m not making this up, “Katniss was reminded of Prim when she met Rue”. Because as we all know, the only thing that Rue and Prim would have in common is race apparently 🙄
people picked up the "she reminded her of prim" but didnt pick up the "she had dark skin" smh.
also in the book Katniss literally explains how rue reminds her of prim, its not because of skin color and hair color and stuff like that but rather than rue being what prim would be if she was in the games, and how rue was the youngest and the smallest competitor there.
@@yonicorn1641 People really hate paying attention when reading.
It reminds me of when Game of Thrones had the first season release. There were a small amount of people who suck at reading who thought that Renly and Loras were turned gay for the show. This is in despite of SEVERAL passages in the books that are not subtle at all about the nature of their relationship. We don't directly see it because we didn't have POV characters that were close to Renly, but it was super obvious.
Granted I have a lot of issues with how that relationship is portrayed in the show, but that's a topic for another day.
@@servebotfrank4082 To be fair, people who don't know to look for queer rep are TERRIBLE at it. When I first read the series at 14, I didn't pick up on it at all and I had basically no understanding of queer culture (and hadn't yet figured out I was trans and gay myself). Re-reading it as I got older yeah it seemed obvious, but there's plenty of people who just never have exposure to queer culture or stories so it just goes right over thier heads.
I'm not saying this to excuse people, but moreso just to try and explain the mindset some people might have cause I had a similar experience and I've never had a problem with LGBT people and am one myself.
@@yonicorn1641 Thank God you pointed this out. I thought I was just misremebering the fact that they literally called her “dark skinned”. Had myself tripping for a second lol.
@@nicolasnamed God I remember I read a book when I was in late elementary school/ early middle school, I don’t remember exactly, but basically the premise was that it was a school that taught people to be good princes and princesses or evil villains. The main characters were a girl who was all edgy and dark and got chosen to be a princess but the beautiful and (outwardly) kind girl got put in the villain school. Anyways, they also both had “live interests”, one villain and one prince, and it was kind of a toss up as to who would end up with each guy. Until in one of the later books, the two girls basically rejected the school and it’s binary of good and evil, and had their true love’s kiss with each other instead of either of the guys. AND I STILL THOUGHT THEY WERE GAL PALS HAHAHA. Thinking back on it makes me laugh so much. Tbf, I was pretty sheltered and didn’t have a phone or access to social media at that point so I’m not sure I even knew gay people existed, but it’s still hilarious. Ah, what I wouldn’t do to have a “gal pal” now lol
I do hate the whole "both sides are equally bad" aspect of Mockingjay, but I do appreciate how ambitious that book was in the way of making the "good side" use Katniss as a pawn for their propaganda just as much as the "bad side". Making it clear that revolutions don't get the luxury of being noble/morally superior if they want to do any good was a concept as a kid that I was not used to seeing. I can also totally see how someone faced with that can just throw up their hands and say "everything is terrible, everyone is bad, no one does this right, what's even the point of picking a side?" So it made sense to me that Katniss's character landed there - I just wish that line of thinking had been challenged by the narrative in some way.
I mean... it's also has a base on reality that sometimes revolutionary movements can be used by popular and/or charismatic figures to basically replace one fascist goverment for another. But even though sometimes that aspect of fiction can fall pretty easily on the "everything sucks" angle, is usually meant as a cautionary tale on "be carefull who you're following because people can take advantage of you".
I’ve always hated the ending of Mockingjay where Katniss votes to continue the games with Capitol kids, but looking back I think i would be character assassination for her *not to* want to continue the cycle, even if that ultimately doesn’t happen.
@@cthulhutheendless1587 She has no intention of it happening. It's a ruse to stay in Coin's favor.
@@cthulhutheendless1587 Uh, she only voted that way to get a shot at killing Coin
@ Yeah, accusing Mockingjay of "violence is bad" both sidesism is kind of a massive oversimplification of what's presented in the text. The violence itself isn't vilified, it's the cycle of violence and fascist manipulation by an opportunistic leader. What sets Katniss off isn't revolutionary violence but the "new" Hunger Games and the covert psyop terrorism that killed her sister as an aid worker.
Catching Fire tugged at my heart a lot more than the first movie did-the death of Katniss’ outfit designer (I sadly forget his name), and the scene where Peetah comforts that girl in the water as they stare at the sky both actively got me invested in the movie. It was really good!
Edit: FUCK I FORGOT THE TRIBUTE SCENE. THE SILENCE OF EVERYONE AS EFFIE IS SELECTING AND ITS ONLY THE FOUR OF THEM. OH MY GOD-
His name was Cinna
After your very intense videos this year, it's nice to hear you disecting trends that interest you without worrying about any discourse.
...beyond that Gale comment, but that's for another day.
YESS LMAOO
Yes, we'll ignore that one because Peeta's literally a ray of sunshine. It is known.
@@Naahi95 FACTS ARE FACTS AMERICA
Gale was a true revolutionary being used by Coin, I wish the books and movie went more into this
yeah... I don't even wanna begin that whole rant.
Idea for a shitty YA dystopia: a world where horses are illegal. It's illegal to own or ride horses, and wild horses are exterminated. Our protagonist comes across a lone wild horse one day and they develop an instant bond. She is soon invited into a pro-horse rebel group that wants to take down the tyrannical government, and she and her horse will be the key to victory! It gets in the YA dystopia demographic AND the horse girl demographic!
"Sadie! Get away from that Thing! We can't trust them since... The Stampede."
"You don't understand, daddy! You'll never understand!"
_horse neighs approvingly, before turning into the key of a forgotten underground city, where it turns out horses were outlawed by The GLU Factory for pro-car propaganda_
the perfect mix between horse girl story and dystopian ya story. I want to read it now.
IM ALMOST SURE THIS EXISTS
but horses dont exist
Is hbomberguy the president of this government?
Madge Undersee was one of those characters that was definitely a highlight in the book, but I think the reason she was cut was because she would’ve been a bit difficult to translate into the film.
Her primary purpose, I felt, was to highlight how socially oblivious Katniss was. By the time she was 16, she’d spent most of her life keeping her family alive, largely through hunting, and because this had become her single focus, she hadn’t learned basic social cues or empathy, at least not in a lot of detail. Because of this, she had viewed Madge in a rather detached way, as this quiet girl she occasionally hung out with at school, and who was a nice person whom she liked. It wasn’t until Madge gave her the Mockingjay pin and kissed her on the cheek that it occurred to her that she was actually one of her closest friends. It was being faced with death and not being a provider to her family that finally made Katniss view her in a different light. That’s why they become very good friends in the second book, and Katniss is upset when she learns that she was killed in the District 12 bombing.
The problem is that most of this occurs in Katniss’s head, and she barely appears in person. If we only went by those short appearances, we definitely wouldn’t get the whole story of their relationship in the required time limit. Also, the reason Madge likes Katniss is because she (Madge) is very reserved, and Katniss is the only person at school who doesn’t expect her to make conversation or actively tries to get her to talk. So their friendship is based on a history of just sitting in each other’s company, without talking to each other.
As poignant as this is, it’s difficult to contextualise in a film, and without this context, it’s going to be a bit confusing to see this girl who seemingly has little to do with Katniss randomly kissing her on the cheek and giving her a brooch.
Not only that, I think a film going audience would likely interpret the interaction as Madge romantically liking Katniss. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, of course. I’m sure some book readers had that interpretation as well and that’s also valid. Just that it would immediately be recontextualised as an unfulfilled romance rather than an understated but strong friendship. Make of that what you will
So as per Sarah's request I googled "Save the Pearl's" and even reading a review of it gave me psychic damage. This was a special kind of awful
Honestly, SAME! -shivers-
What’s it about? Cant google just In cause it’s rlly bad
@@streamlily5971 basically a world where white people (pearls) suffer bc of the sun (ig?) and black people (called coals and yes that's already fucked up) are safer because they have less chances of getting skin cancer. at least that's what I got from wikipedia. OH and also the main character does blackface (it's also the cover art) because apparently the author didn't think their book was bad enough
Yep. I search it up and now I’m traumatized. Who thought this was a good idea?!?!?
I thought the summary itself was bad enough but then I looked back at the cover art and audibly went “yikes”
I love this genre and made a video on this same topic but you broke it down to a wholeee other level! Great vid!
Hey dude, love your videos. Have a nice weekend 😁
Omg I’ll have to watch yours! Thank you so much, fellow Zed!
@@SarahZ you both have the same last name. Nice that siblings are sticking together. ❤ 💙
@@toxyc0slime Whatchamean? Nathan's last name isn't "zee".
Also great video, Sarah Zee!
i’m so glad you touched on Katniss’ skin tone. A story of an Indigenous woman who protects her sister, then a black girl with whom she feels kinship, then the death of Rue. as an Indigenous person, this would’ve been much more compelling to me (like the book did, as i pictured Katniss with a skin tone like mine). Jennifer Lawrence is fantastic at her craft, but the movies compared to the books were kinda meh (i know, cliche).
eh, it might be cliche but i think it's cliche for a reason, in that most movie adaptations do end up being worse, unfaithful or just straight up terrible more than they end up actually adding anything to the books (i can't think of any examples where i prefer the movies to the books, though i'm sure there are some). i think this is because of hollywood's tendency to want a sensational story with complex characters but ultimately shying away from actually discussing their complexities. katniss being an indigenous woman in the movies would've been huge, but probably less profitable in their eyes because the struggles of a white woman are seen as more relatable than the struggles of a woc (see the treatment of rue from fans who interpreted her as white when the casting was revealed, and how many either didn't really care for her death in the movie but mourned prim's death with everything they had, despite the two playing very similar roles in the story, often pointed out by katniss).
@@daaishifeeling i think people didn’t care for Rue’s death in the movies (as much as they did for Prim) *because* of the fact that Katniss wasn’t a person of color. The kinship between “white woman savior” and a little black girl is much different than indigenous hunter woman and a little black girl meant to portray innocence.
Reminds me a little of an old gripe of mine about an eighties schlock fantasy “adapted” from a SF novel about an indigenous fellow on another planet trying to save an alien culture from what happened to his.
The book and movie share the “Beastmaster” tag and are about a guy who can talk to animals. There the similarities end.
Hi, could you tell me please where it is written that she is an Indigenous woman? Im currently reading the book and while I imagined Rue as Black, I always thought that both Katniss and Gabe were olive skinned but still white (like for example stereotypical people from Southern Europe e.g. Italy (the south specifically), Greece, Cyprus etc. I remember their skin and hair colour being mentioned in the beginning of the first book but I can't remember anything else...
@@blm0726 it's not written in the text, but a lot of people like to interpret katniss as indigenous because it works for her character and the setting of a small Appalachian mining town. she was described as having dark hair, coal-grey eyes, and 'olive skin' and that it was typical of the Seam.
The Divergent human engineering plot just screams “I didn’t think this world through and now I need fix it!”