Good to see that some HVAC guys are able to follow basic R290 procedures without paranoia and fear mongering. Large industrial refrigeration systems use propane, and for lower temps, (-120C) ethylene. There is no reason to be fearful. You just need to be knowledgeable and follow procedures to purge and evacuate equipment before opening it. I'm impressed that you emphasized forcing open the solenoid valves so no pockets of refrigerant are trapped. It always takes time to liberate the propane that is saturated in the compressor oil so larger systems require a longer vacuum and you always need a nitrogen purge when welding or brazing. Good video! Thanks.
There's a difference between fear and respect. You don't need to fear your equipment, but you do need to respect it. The procedures will help you do that. I work with 480v industrial equipment often. My first few times, I was scared! But now that I've been doing it for 16+ years, I've gotten used to it. Complacant? No! I still take due care whenever I'm going into a control system. I still respect what that thing can do to me. But I don't fear it anymore.
I don't have anything to do with refrigeration in my line of work or know anything about it and I live in Europe. But despite of all that I still like watching your videos. I think I like watching videos of people being good at what they do, be it refrigeration, electricians, musicians etc.
I too have nothing to do with refrigeration, butt I enjoy the videos. I always say there's nothing more popular than watching other people work. As a bonus I have learned a lot about commercial refrigeration equipment. No one's job is in any danger though.
I appreciate the honesty about your own r290 policies and practices. Likewise for talking about the impracticality of cutting that drier out. It’s valuable information that some folks might not be able to get elsewhere.
I don't really know anything about this, not sure why it showed up in my feed. I am a mechanic, though, and I appreciate your process and troubleshooting skills. It always comes to Percussive maintenance.
I appreciate you reminding people about the time it takes to pull a vacuum on the system. I once had a supervisor complain that I shouldn't take more than 30 minutes to evacuate the full system of a walk-in cooler, when we replaced the skid...
Pure propane doesn't smell of anything. The stuff used as fuel has odorants added to it which most people associate as the "propane" smell, but that is completely artificial.
Did you keep a fire extinguisher close,I would.I must say you inspire me,to learn all this stuff,don't let negative people who don't want to teach you anything,just take control of your own future,don't let others stand in your way.
Delfield put out a service bulletin a few months ago saying to no longer use that leak detector and use nitro and 134 as trace gas with your go to detector.
What i like to do and has worked well for me is after vending the gas out and give it a quick purge with nitrogen , i pull a quick 5min evacuation to get most the r290 out of the oil and the System, so far i had no flame outs or burns or explosions. What i find the most Dangerus on R290 is Unbrazings Evaps or compressors i would not do that . The absolute nightmare Szenario is a Pluged cap tube and only having a low pressure port so your trapping gas on the high side and Unbrazing a Compressor for example. But your method is working just fine too stay safe!
Not afraid to work on it. Buuuut dislike working on cooks drawers or prep tables. That one looks nice and accessible though. I replaced an evap coil on a true cooks drawer this week wow what a nightmare. Learn lots from your videos Chris keep the good coming!
I remember messing with my apprentice when he was pulling a vacuum....i kept hitting the compressor with my rubber mallet....he kept noticing his microns going up after going down......i kept quiet for awhile...he started to panic and didn't know what was going on...i finally showed him what i did....he was a little pissed....but started to laugh at it, after 5 minutes or so. He actually thanked me at the end for showing him that vapor, atmosphere can sit in the compressor oil/ the system and boil off/ be trapped.
I'm leaving a warranty service call for arctic Air right now, system arrived with no gas in it, the guy told me to just gas it up and they'll send out a new one, I asked them if they were okay with taking the liability for gassing up a known leaking A3 refrigerant system and he didn't know what I was talking about, I just rolled the cord up and put it inside the condenser panel and told them to wait for the new one to show up, I'm not taking the liability for that thing
yup, thats the thing. R290 is NOT an f-gas, its not in " our" wheelhouse until the rules change. let the manufacturer bear the risk, i am not ruining my company to "Help out" the manufacturer or the customer.
I'm the one who cleans and filters the fryers at work, I have to hear those damned error codes every day. At least they're not Failmaster (Frymaster), now those are some piles of absolute junk.
my five cents: I typically use a hair dryer to warm up the compressor sump so all the refrigerant is released from the oil when evacuating speeds up things. Also use two hoses to connect to the liquid side and vapor side of the service valves with valve cores removed when pulling vacuum on small systems - goes faster. To release flammable refrigerant I have two very long hoses that I couple together and if possible hang out a window. Consider R-290 and R-600 is heavier than air so it goes to the lowest spot in a building when you vent it. for small systems there are recovery bags when venting is not possible i.e. a basement: Whirlpool WX5X24715, R600A & R290 DISCHARGE BAG you can then bring the bag outdoors where it's safe and release the flammable refrigerant and empty the bag.
I remember putting propane in my cars AC and it worked great but when I tried it on my VW with a variable displacement compressor I could not get the same performance out of it.
I have tried regular fuel propane in my old Honda, it worked well after fiddling with the charge weight a little. The propane/butane mix you often get as fuel probably works better than pure r290 because of the high pressure
The only time I felt concerned when venting r290 was a huge lowboy that they couldn't move out of the kitchen. So I had to vent it right there and there were pilots going everywhere. A bit concerning. I had them shut down the gas for 10 mins. That was rough.
I was a little scary when my first fridge with r-600a walk in, I worked before as technician for industrial induction heating machines that put out steel pieces as red hot pieces (pretty hot stuff!!!) in that work I learned that if you follow correctly the safety instructions nothing wrong will happen. Nice video by the way
The one that’s really scary that I work on sometimes is ammonia refrigeration systems in big stores like Costco and big food production plants with cooling tower systems
@@Joshuatimmons1783 that's not really that deadly... maybe I'm looking at it from a different perspective where when you're doing chemistry processes you can run across more deadly chemicals and gases
I like working on R290 units, vent to atmosphere, and away you go. The little tanks and no recovery make things alot easier and faster. Yes I also agree cutting out driers is pointless, you are using nitro while brazing, its never in any vac prior to to being open to atmosphere (dont have to use a recovery), and you vac after anyway, then it all goes back in easier aswell. Love that little scale will be looking at getting one soon as alot of true warranty calls, I always cut a small box and put tank in upside down so it doesn't move much. The stupid part is that they say no open flames and want you to be cautious yet they want you to braze on lines with propane in them, that they want pinched off with a tool that only works half the time, if thats the case we should be able to smoke too lol. I have also purged with nitro 2- 3 times and still got flame outs, annoying lol.
I don't think that we have forgotten how to do the basics and or the best practices. The issue is a lot of techs have become lazy. Flowing nitrogen takes too much time. We are also time constrained by our employers. There are 6 calls on you and you have to get this repair done fast. That is the problem. Thanks for the videos.
Brian, As usual I am behind but if I ever read a post that was the gospel TRUTH! You nailed it on the head! Lol I get around an it is shocking the actual numbers of Tecks that R&R an you never see a tank anywhere.. an if you question them ? Sorry I know the right way but if I want a job I can’t take the time 😮😢😢
Most of the propane systems I've seen have more than one cycle to get around the charge restrictions, so you can usually leave it running on half power while waiting for parts, which is nice. I have seen huge drive in freezers that run on dozens of little propane cycles in parallel, much redundancy.
0:28 - Hey, that Henny Penny fryer sound triggered me. LOL Is this a KFC location by any chance? 😉That's usually a "bad sensor" alert or a "water in oil" alert. 13:30 - Sounds to me like the filtration cycle on the Henny Penny is complete. Excellent point on how many of the procedures really haven't changed much over the decades. The basics are the basics for a reason!
The only issue I see with it is that R290 don't smell because it lacks mercaptan, something that's added to the fuel variant of propane. If you worry about R-290 then you should also worry about your phone, hair spray and cooking oil too.
Awesome video I was on a job where atech told another teacher to shut the breaker off and he said yes and the tech didn't double check and git hit by 460volts burned his arm from one side to the other he was in bad shape it was horrible
Very nice job. I appreciate your effort to film your work in the field. This has helped me immensely to understand my role in this field. As a Daily watcher I say keep up the good work my friend. I am very appreciative of your teaching skills for helping me learn my job at my work with these units . 🎉
Thank you Chris for the valuable information as always.. I have been apprehensive of working on r290 equipment..not scared..😂. Only because of the lack of the tools really necessary when working with r20 at my job unfortunately.. Time for changes my man
Well let’s see, I played with testing torch tank propane in my daily driver vehicle, used to fill/repair anhydrous ammonia tanks, and worked on anhydrous knifers while they still had their tank hooked up. If that doesn’t answer your question, I don’t know what will.
Great video. I always thought that you have to have a sealed system on R290. I noticed when you got there it already had access valves like it was worked on previously.
When the HC refrigerants first hit the market everyone was really worried about it but I have been seeing units with factory access fittings lately so I think the paranoia of the flammable gas is starting to die down and more and more techs seam to be leaving them on now.
@@keldon_champion factory policy is still to remove the access. Whatever a tech decides to do, is what they do, but the manufacturer still wants the access removed and the stems painted or sheathed in red.
@@ianicus123 that depends on the who made it because I can tell you that silver king and several others have access ports installed OEM from the factory they usually have red shrink tube over the valve, I have worked on newer units under warrenty untouched by any other techs that have ports the MFG installed so I think it is pretty clear that some of them have deamed it acceptable.
Non professional here. 1) A propane gas can for camping stoves have easily 220+ grams of propane in it, so I feel the fear is way out of scope 2) there are fire extinguishers that use SodaStream CO2 bottles. They are awesome and cheap to refill. As an alternative to the towel, not an alternative to a real extinguisher.
Plus, they sell 170g bottles of r290 and r600a as an 12 replacement for vehicles here, over the counter.. and those things are non hermetic and next to an engine. And those old systems might take like a pound of the stuff. I havent heard of too many explosions from self-filling that stuff even from those with a cig in their mouth while doing it.
That propane gets mighty cold and also does not form acids while pumping if there is a trace of water vapor in there like 134A does. Just suck to vacuum backfill with nitrogen, do your work, vacuum again, and recharge.
Quite a few local HVAC don't want the liability issues. Ordinary refrigerants only. The EPA is not a law making body either as WV taught them. Congress only.
Since it has service ports, it’s already been worked on and ports have been added. With such a small amount of gas, ports are not added at the factory.
Hi, mechanical engineer here, dealing with HVACR. Propane (R290) and Isobutane (R600a) reclaiming machines are not currently available, partly because it isn't mandated by laws and regulations. They have smaller GWP than most HFCs and HFOs ( if not all ) and no ozone depletion potential.
I agree 100% with your take on safety. Things in life can be dangerous, yes, but everything can be dangerous if you look at it in a certain way. Also, 60v dc is the cutoff for OSHA :^) 24v DC should be fine if you aren't licking it
Just something to add, you said pulling a vacuum to below 500 then 200, absolutely do not pull below 250 microns because POE oil starts to gas off at 250 microns which is obviously bad.
@@PsRohrbaugh no that's moisture trapped in the POE oil when you shake or tap on the compressor under vacuum some of it bubbles up and results in a sudden jump in microns, it is almost impossible to pull a vacuum low enough to boil POE by mistake I was just point out misinformation on the micron level he was talking about, EPA recommends a 500 micron vacuum and CFESA recommends no less than 1000. I used to do food service refrigeration but I do mostly supermarket rack refrigeration now and to be honest we don't even hook up micron gauges most of the time because you won't get a super deep vacuum on a live rack no matter how long you wait because you will often suck refrigerant around wherever you valve off at so we just try to get as much moisture out as we can and move on but racks are a whole different animal than little self contained systems.
It’s like going back to our junior days in the trade, we’re scared to work on something new. I use to be scared, and I’m not now. However I’ve heard of cases of these coolers catching small fires lol. Its funny, but eventually that’ll be the reason things rollback imo
I used to work on R-12 automotive systems a long time ago. Today's R-134 is the norm but as you might be aware it just doesn't work well. I worked on a Datsun with an R-12 system and it used to get the interior of a car really cold when it was 110 outside with a vent temperature of around 38 to 42F with recirculating on. Vent temp used to get down to 28F if the Max button because it simply bypassed the evaporator pressure switch. What is the feasibility of retrofitting a R-134 system into using butane or propane? If it could be done, will it work better than R-134?
When you have a compressor burn out on a small piece of equipment like this, is it necessary to flush the whole system before installing the new compressor or is a suction side dryer enough protection?
I’m not scared of it just a little bit more time consuming however the company I work for seems like they give me all the r290 follow ups and jobs that have to do with sealed systems repair.
Why do most people not leave service ports welded in? I’ve seen multiple instances they just pinch them off? Doesn’t make sense to me. Is there a reason for this?
I thought with an R290 system the check ports shouldn’t left it there. I don’t know, and it’s based on your previous video like year ago something. But now I will leave it on just the way I see it now 👍
I remember all of the OEMs telling us that for warranty repairs, but now that they are starting to get out of Warranty a lot of our customers are just leaving regular service ports now. I work at a wholesaler, we can say what's recommended to do all day long, but getting them to actually do anything is another thing entirely?
Never been woried about working with those "zippo" refrigerant units. But the larger ones when the whole room is in a negative pressure with ex fans makes one think twice.
Just getting started watching the video, but the only reason that someone would be afraid to work on something would be if you didn’t know what you were doing. If you know how to work on things and know the necessary safety precautions to take when working on it, there is no reason to be afraid. I don’t do HVAC, but I work on cars. I’m certified to work on hybrids and EVs, stuff with up to 800V (or more). Many of my coworkers are deathly afraid of anything on the high voltage systems of these cars. I know what can kill/burn me on these cars and I know how to work on them safely, so they don’t scare me even slightly. Most of the systems are actually really safe.
Why is it that every time you need to replace a component in an R290 system, you seem to replace the drier? Is it a common failure point that's prone to getting plugged up? Been very curious about this the more I try to learn about natural refrigerants watching your videos.
Nice clean job I doing this work about six years know I don't have a lot of experience like you but for me I will put on a valve on the pressure switch for easy work what is the running psi suction side please I never work on these systems
Yes those pressure controls are garbage. I add a T with a screw on. You did Vent it next to a bank of Friers though so you can vent R290 anywhere. R290 isn’t a combustible though, it’s flammable.
I work with r600 refrigerators all the time. Just make sure you purge with nitrogen and the filter dryer isn't restricted. If there's a flame just blow it out and repurge.
Yup done this before, it's called flaring, just feed to a big torch or burner like a turkey fryer. Can also pump it into an empty grill tank and use it for fuel. Need to use your scale for that, though. Not recommended to reuse it as refrigerant because new is cheap and contamination say from a compressor shorting out will clog up your capillary and sludge up your drying tube.
This is a question from somebody who doesn't really know anything on safety when working professionally with flammable gases, but shouldn't you be worried about letting the exhaust fans pull the propane out the building? Seems like if the gas were to come into contact with a motor and there were some small spark it could ignite. Or are the motors sealed/the gas so spread out at that point that this couldn't really happen?
The Henny Penny fryer going off in the background gives me ptsd lol
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😂
The evaporator fan motor is running but we don’t have a light on
I wonder what is going on here.
That indicates that the rail isnt calling.
Good to see that some HVAC guys are able to follow basic R290 procedures without paranoia and fear mongering. Large industrial refrigeration systems use propane, and for lower temps, (-120C) ethylene. There is no reason to be fearful. You just need to be knowledgeable and follow procedures to purge and evacuate equipment before opening it. I'm impressed that you emphasized forcing open the solenoid valves so no pockets of refrigerant are trapped. It always takes time to liberate the propane that is saturated in the compressor oil so larger systems require a longer vacuum and you always need a nitrogen purge when welding or brazing. Good video! Thanks.
There's a difference between fear and respect.
You don't need to fear your equipment, but you do need to respect it. The procedures will help you do that.
I work with 480v industrial equipment often. My first few times, I was scared! But now that I've been doing it for 16+ years, I've gotten used to it.
Complacant? No! I still take due care whenever I'm going into a control system. I still respect what that thing can do to me. But I don't fear it anymore.
I don't have anything to do with refrigeration in my line of work or know anything about it and I live in Europe. But despite of all that I still like watching your videos. I think I like watching videos of people being good at what they do, be it refrigeration, electricians, musicians etc.
I too have nothing to do with refrigeration, butt I enjoy the videos. I always say there's nothing more popular than watching other people work.
As a bonus I have learned a lot about commercial refrigeration equipment. No one's job is in any danger though.
Don't forget prostitutes
I appreciate the honesty about your own r290 policies and practices. Likewise for talking about the impracticality of cutting that drier out. It’s valuable information that some folks might not be able to get elsewhere.
Yup, it is why I love his channel. Through to the Nth degree!
As a tech new to refrigeration. I have to say you have taught me a ton through your videos. Please keep these videos up
Here we connect a long hose from the service port and run it to a window for vent hydrocarbons. Propane & isobutane.
I don't really know anything about this, not sure why it showed up in my feed. I am a mechanic, though, and I appreciate your process and troubleshooting skills.
It always comes to Percussive maintenance.
Had a class by Delfield at my company and talked about how to diagnose a R-290 system without putting gages or putting taps on
I appreciate you reminding people about the time it takes to pull a vacuum on the system. I once had a supervisor complain that I shouldn't take more than 30 minutes to evacuate the full system of a walk-in cooler, when we replaced the skid...
Yup propane likes to dissolve in that oil like an extra flammable soda, and it takes time to pull a good vacuum on these sysyems.
Now I'm curious how propanated soda would.. taste like.@@christopherleubner6633
Been wanting to work on them but there's only a handful down here and we don't service them yet
"Un-odorized", Made me chuckle. Thanks for the fantastic content. I've learned a lot watching you.
Pure propane doesn't smell of anything. The stuff used as fuel has odorants added to it which most people associate as the "propane" smell, but that is completely artificial.
Good job, I used propane in cascade systems for years for 120 below zero freezers in the hospital.
Those are some pretty cool systems, no pun intended. A lot of work goes into hitting those temperatures that is hard to comprehend
Did you keep a fire extinguisher close,I would.I must say you inspire me,to learn all this stuff,don't let negative people who don't want to teach you anything,just take control of your own future,don't let others stand in your way.
That screwdriver tap on the pressure controller got me off guard 😂😂😂
Percussive maintenance. Obviously, it works.
A BFH, or an implied BFH, works miracles in diagnostics sometimes.
Delfield put out a service bulletin a few months ago saying to no longer use that leak detector and use nitro and 134 as trace gas with your go to detector.
What i like to do and has worked well for me is after vending the gas out and give it a quick purge with nitrogen , i pull a quick 5min evacuation to get most the r290 out of the oil and the System, so far i had no flame outs or burns or explosions. What i find the most Dangerus on R290 is Unbrazings Evaps or compressors i would not do that . The absolute nightmare Szenario is a Pluged cap tube and only having a low pressure port so your trapping gas on the high side and Unbrazing a Compressor for example. But your method is working just fine too stay safe!
Hello from Scotland 👍🏻 still watching your good work
Chilling out on the beach in Peurto Vallarata watching Hvacr videos. 😊😊
Not afraid to work on it. Buuuut dislike working on cooks drawers or prep tables. That one looks nice and accessible though. I replaced an evap coil on a true cooks drawer this week wow what a nightmare. Learn lots from your videos Chris keep the good coming!
Let's dissect the high pressure valve! 😊
I remember messing with my apprentice when he was pulling a vacuum....i kept hitting the compressor with my rubber mallet....he kept noticing his microns going up after going down......i kept quiet for awhile...he started to panic and didn't know what was going on...i finally showed him what i did....he was a little pissed....but started to laugh at it, after 5 minutes or so. He actually thanked me at the end for showing him that vapor, atmosphere can sit in the compressor oil/ the system and boil off/ be trapped.
Worked with it many times. Ultra low freezers use it regularly to keep the oil fluid.
I use heat shrink tubing over my stubs when I'm done. It lets me know if its been tampered with after I left it.
I'm leaving a warranty service call for arctic Air right now, system arrived with no gas in it, the guy told me to just gas it up and they'll send out a new one, I asked them if they were okay with taking the liability for gassing up a known leaking A3 refrigerant system and he didn't know what I was talking about,
I just rolled the cord up and put it inside the condenser panel and told them to wait for the new one to show up, I'm not taking the liability for that thing
yup, thats the thing. R290 is NOT an f-gas, its not in " our" wheelhouse until the rules change. let the manufacturer bear the risk, i am not ruining my company to "Help out" the manufacturer or the customer.
I would do the same thing as you did
I used to live in the town where Delfield is based. Our R/C field was close to the factory. Not that it means anything.
That Henny Penny error sounds haunts my dreams.
I know how you feel, it triggered an almost-PTSD-like response in me. And I haven't touched one of those machines in nearly two years!
I'm the one who cleans and filters the fryers at work, I have to hear those damned error codes every day.
At least they're not Failmaster (Frymaster), now those are some piles of absolute junk.
@@CheechChechiemon the HE Frymasters are garbage. The non high efficiency ones are solid units. But can't beat a standard millivolt system.
my five cents: I typically use a hair dryer to warm up the compressor sump so all the refrigerant is released from the oil when evacuating speeds up things. Also use two hoses to connect to the liquid side and vapor side of the service valves with valve cores removed when pulling vacuum on small systems - goes faster. To release flammable refrigerant I have two very long hoses that I couple together and if possible hang out a window. Consider R-290 and R-600 is heavier than air so it goes to the lowest spot in a building when you vent it. for small systems there are recovery bags when venting is not possible i.e. a basement: Whirlpool WX5X24715, R600A & R290 DISCHARGE BAG you can then bring the bag outdoors where it's safe and release the flammable refrigerant and empty the bag.
I remember putting propane in my cars AC and it worked great but when I tried it on my VW with a variable displacement compressor I could not get the same performance out of it.
I have tried regular fuel propane in my old Honda, it worked well after fiddling with the charge weight a little. The propane/butane mix you often get as fuel probably works better than pure r290 because of the high pressure
The only time I felt concerned when venting r290 was a huge lowboy that they couldn't move out of the kitchen. So I had to vent it right there and there were pilots going everywhere. A bit concerning. I had them shut down the gas for 10 mins. That was rough.
I has been working on true cooler and freezer and it is easy,I got a little nervous the first couple times,but normal now,great video
I was a little scary when my first fridge with r-600a walk in, I worked before as technician for industrial induction heating machines that put out steel pieces as red hot pieces (pretty hot stuff!!!) in that work I learned that if you follow correctly the safety instructions nothing wrong will happen. Nice video by the way
The one that’s really scary that I work on sometimes is ammonia refrigeration systems in big stores like Costco and big food production plants with cooling tower systems
@@Joshuatimmons1783 why?
@@xephael3485 it is really deadly like carbon monoxide
@@Joshuatimmons1783 that's not really that deadly... maybe I'm looking at it from a different perspective where when you're doing chemistry processes you can run across more deadly chemicals and gases
@@xephael3485 it is very deadly they have alarms on the outside of the door that goes off if there’s a leak
Great work , It’s the same steps for R600a as well.
I like working on R290 units, vent to atmosphere, and away you go. The little tanks and no recovery make things alot easier and faster. Yes I also agree cutting out driers is pointless, you are using nitro while brazing, its never in any vac prior to to being open to atmosphere (dont have to use a recovery), and you vac after anyway, then it all goes back in easier aswell. Love that little scale will be looking at getting one soon as alot of true warranty calls, I always cut a small box and put tank in upside down so it doesn't move much. The stupid part is that they say no open flames and want you to be cautious yet they want you to braze on lines with propane in them, that they want pinched off with a tool that only works half the time, if thats the case we should be able to smoke too lol. I have also purged with nitro 2- 3 times and still got flame outs, annoying lol.
It's like going back to R12 days when it was happy-go-lucky dump to atmosphere
I don't think that we have forgotten how to do the basics and or the best practices. The issue is a lot of techs have become lazy. Flowing nitrogen takes too much time. We are also time constrained by our employers. There are 6 calls on you and you have to get this repair done fast. That is the problem. Thanks for the videos.
I will discuss this tonight 4/3/23 @ 5:PM (pacific) on my Livestream come on over and check it out th-cam.com/users/live0nmQ17mJU_k
Brian, As usual I am behind but if I ever read a post that was the gospel TRUTH! You nailed it on the head! Lol I get around an it is shocking the actual numbers of Tecks that R&R an you never see a tank anywhere.. an if you question them ? Sorry I know the right way but if I want a job I can’t take the time 😮😢😢
Good job Chris.
I really appreciated your channel
Most of the propane systems I've seen have more than one cycle to get around the charge restrictions, so you can usually leave it running on half power while waiting for parts, which is nice. I have seen huge drive in freezers that run on dozens of little propane cycles in parallel, much redundancy.
Half power? Never heard that term in refrigeration
0:28 - Hey, that Henny Penny fryer sound triggered me. LOL Is this a KFC location by any chance? 😉That's usually a "bad sensor" alert or a "water in oil" alert.
13:30 - Sounds to me like the filtration cycle on the Henny Penny is complete.
Excellent point on how many of the procedures really haven't changed much over the decades. The basics are the basics for a reason!
The only issue I see with it is that R290 don't smell because it lacks mercaptan, something that's added to the fuel variant of propane.
If you worry about R-290 then you should also worry about your phone, hair spray and cooking oil too.
Awesome video I was on a job where atech told another teacher to shut the breaker off and he said yes and the tech didn't double check and git hit by 460volts burned his arm from one side to the other he was in bad shape it was horrible
Very nice job. I appreciate your effort to film your work in the field. This has helped me immensely to understand my role in this field.
As a Daily watcher I say keep up the good work my friend.
I am very appreciative of your teaching skills for helping me learn my job at my work with these units . 🎉
have u ever worked on TRUEs newer coolers that have the eco coolant? we have one and theirs a warning sticker inside its flammable and can explode?
Thank you Chris for the valuable information as always.. I have been apprehensive of working on r290 equipment..not scared..😂. Only because of the lack of the tools really necessary when working with r20 at my job unfortunately.. Time for changes my man
The P6 - boost by jb is ignition proof recovery machine
Can you do a video on the Parker AS constant pressure expansion valve? How to dial in pressure?
Thanks Chris for another informative and interesting video. Common sense and to-the-point commentary.
Well let’s see, I played with testing torch tank propane in my daily driver vehicle, used to fill/repair anhydrous ammonia tanks, and worked on anhydrous knifers while they still had their tank hooked up. If that doesn’t answer your question, I don’t know what will.
Great Video. Thank you for sharing
I have had several of those fail.
Already on the third one on a box.
Sucks you cant upgrade to a aftermarket part.
I carry a long 1/4 hose of any material for venting 600a
Great info. again. Thank you, Chris.
Great video. I always thought that you have to have a sealed system on R290. I noticed when you got there it already had access valves like it was worked on previously.
Oh you spoke about it at the end.
Yea they are supposed to be sealed. They sell a crimp tool that looks like a vise grip and we are supposed to be brazed shut.
When the HC refrigerants first hit the market everyone was really worried about it but I have been seeing units with factory access fittings lately so I think the paranoia of the flammable gas is starting to die down and more and more techs seam to be leaving them on now.
@@keldon_champion factory policy is still to remove the access. Whatever a tech decides to do, is what they do, but the manufacturer still wants the access removed and the stems painted or sheathed in red.
@@ianicus123 that depends on the who made it because I can tell you that silver king and several others have access ports installed OEM from the factory they usually have red shrink tube over the valve, I have worked on newer units under warrenty untouched by any other techs that have ports the MFG installed so I think it is pretty clear that some of them have deamed it acceptable.
Non professional here.
1) A propane gas can for camping stoves have easily 220+ grams of propane in it, so I feel the fear is way out of scope
2) there are fire extinguishers that use SodaStream CO2 bottles. They are awesome and cheap to refill. As an alternative to the towel, not an alternative to a real extinguisher.
Plus, they sell 170g bottles of r290 and r600a as an 12 replacement for vehicles here, over the counter.. and those things are non hermetic and next to an engine. And those old systems might take like a pound of the stuff. I havent heard of too many explosions from self-filling that stuff even from those with a cig in their mouth while doing it.
That propane gets mighty cold and also does not form acids while pumping if there is a trace of water vapor in there like 134A does. Just suck to vacuum backfill with nitrogen, do your work, vacuum again, and recharge.
I’m gonna have to put my cigarette out now damn it 🤷🏻♂️😂😂. Good video brother 💪🏻💪🏻
Yes mostly seen true refrigeration using them
I always have many questions about propane or propane accessories.
Quite a few local HVAC don't want the liability issues. Ordinary refrigerants only.
The EPA is not a law making body either as WV taught them. Congress only.
I could never work in one of those places for more than a few hours, that beeping from the fryers would drive me nuts.
Keeping um coming
Also you can sodder the dryer filter like that with out any components in it messing up?
I’m a little terrified my crimp tool will fail when Im doing the final brazing on that hi side. 😂
Great vid as always!
But great job. You did it all as i would have done. exept those bad hp switches.. USe a danfoss china model isntead.
Since it has service ports, it’s already been worked on and ports have been added. With such a small amount of gas, ports are not added at the factory.
Hi, mechanical engineer here, dealing with HVACR. Propane (R290) and Isobutane (R600a) reclaiming machines are not currently available, partly because it isn't mandated by laws and regulations. They have smaller GWP than most HFCs and HFOs ( if not all ) and no ozone depletion potential.
Every time a bulk propane truck fills up at a rack, they vent many times that amount when they disconnect the 3 inch hoses. Propane flying everywhere.
I agree 100% with your take on safety. Things in life can be dangerous, yes, but everything can be dangerous if you look at it in a certain way.
Also, 60v dc is the cutoff for OSHA :^) 24v DC should be fine if you aren't licking it
🇺🇲💪👍❄️ how often do u c access fittings left on r290 systems? Great video thanks
😂 I just mentioned that too. Not only me saw that.
Just something to add, you said pulling a vacuum to below 500 then 200, absolutely do not pull below 250 microns because POE oil starts to gas off at 250 microns which is obviously bad.
I was wondering if that was the source of the pressure spikes when he shook the compressor...
@@PsRohrbaugh no that's moisture trapped in the POE oil when you shake or tap on the compressor under vacuum some of it bubbles up and results in a sudden jump in microns, it is almost impossible to pull a vacuum low enough to boil POE by mistake I was just point out misinformation on the micron level he was talking about, EPA recommends a 500 micron vacuum and CFESA recommends no less than 1000. I used to do food service refrigeration but I do mostly supermarket rack refrigeration now and to be honest we don't even hook up micron gauges most of the time because you won't get a super deep vacuum on a live rack no matter how long you wait because you will often suck refrigerant around wherever you valve off at so we just try to get as much moisture out as we can and move on but racks are a whole different animal than little self contained systems.
What does it cost for a repair like this, I’m an HVAC/r tech and I’m having difficulty pricing jobs. Any help would be amazingly appreciated. Thanks
Have you ever attempted to thread a 134a 12-ounce refrigerant can on that Atlas high precision scale?
It’s like going back to our junior days in the trade, we’re scared to work on something new. I use to be scared, and I’m not now. However I’ve heard of cases of these coolers catching small fires lol. Its funny, but eventually that’ll be the reason things rollback imo
Asphyxiation is the biggest hazard in HVAC
the things you do never amzes me how you explane thigs work great video
I used to work on R-12 automotive systems a long time ago. Today's R-134 is the norm but as you might be aware it just doesn't work well. I worked on a Datsun with an R-12 system and it used to get the interior of a car really cold when it was 110 outside with a vent temperature of around 38 to 42F with recirculating on. Vent temp used to get down to 28F if the Max button because it simply bypassed the evaporator pressure switch. What is the feasibility of retrofitting a R-134 system into using butane or propane? If it could be done, will it work better than R-134?
They sell R290/R600a mix for R12 replacement here, but it's up to you to risk the extra flammability in your engine bay.
When you have a compressor burn out on a small piece of equipment like this, is it necessary to flush the whole system before installing the new compressor or is a suction side dryer enough protection?
All are flammable
I’m not scared of it just a little bit more time consuming however the company I work for seems like they give me all the r290 follow ups and jobs that have to do with sealed systems repair.
Why do most people not leave service ports welded in? I’ve seen multiple instances they just pinch them off? Doesn’t make sense to me. Is there a reason for this?
I thought with an R290 system the check ports shouldn’t left it there. I don’t know, and it’s based on your previous video like year ago something.
But now I will leave it on just the way I see it now 👍
EPA changed their regulations beginning of 2022, you’re allowed to keep service valves on 290 systems now, just not the bullet piercing kind.
I remember all of the OEMs telling us that for warranty repairs, but now that they are starting to get out of Warranty a lot of our customers are just leaving regular service ports now. I work at a wholesaler, we can say what's recommended to do all day long, but getting them to actually do anything is another thing entirely?
@@docholliday3218 👍 I like that. I will do the same now.
@@docholliday3218 They will be changing that back lol, been seeing a lot of butchers work that have been catching fire from the access ports.
1:38 Super Tech moment!
Can you recover R290 into an ordinary propane tank and use it to power your grill?
@4:00, you have a clap-on clap-off control! It's a new feature on those! Sadly, they still need to debug it somewhat...
great advice
My biggest fear is not being able to fix the problem.
My Biggest fear is to eat in that restaurant. Why TF are restaurants in the US so dirty all the time. Isn't there a health department?
Never been woried about working with those "zippo" refrigerant units. But the larger ones when the whole room is in a negative pressure with ex fans makes one think twice.
I use a dremal to cut out drier and then torch the joints off that me.of course use nitrogen also.
Just getting started watching the video, but the only reason that someone would be afraid to work on something would be if you didn’t know what you were doing. If you know how to work on things and know the necessary safety precautions to take when working on it, there is no reason to be afraid.
I don’t do HVAC, but I work on cars. I’m certified to work on hybrids and EVs, stuff with up to 800V (or more). Many of my coworkers are deathly afraid of anything on the high voltage systems of these cars. I know what can kill/burn me on these cars and I know how to work on them safely, so they don’t scare me even slightly. Most of the systems are actually really safe.
Why is it that every time you need to replace a component in an R290 system, you seem to replace the drier? Is it a common failure point that's prone to getting plugged up? Been very curious about this the more I try to learn about natural refrigerants watching your videos.
If it's lost its pressure, best to change the thing.
Nice clean job I doing this work about six years know I don't have a lot of experience like you but for me I will put on a valve on the pressure switch for easy work what is the running psi suction side please I never work on these systems
On advice on the suction pressure 😮
I service r290 units since when can you leave access ports on them. I’ve always been told you can’t do that
I'm a little disappointed that my expensive scale won't do grams. I guess I'll need to buy a kitchen scale off Amazon
Yes those pressure controls are garbage. I add a T with a screw on. You did Vent it next to a bank of Friers though so you can vent R290 anywhere. R290 isn’t a combustible though, it’s flammable.
I work with r600 refrigerators all the time. Just make sure you purge with nitrogen and the filter dryer isn't restricted. If there's a flame just blow it out and repurge.
Could you just burn of the R290, like with a little torch or burner?
Deleting any danger of having an unwanted ignition
Yup done this before, it's called flaring, just feed to a big torch or burner like a turkey fryer. Can also pump it into an empty grill tank and use it for fuel. Need to use your scale for that, though. Not recommended to reuse it as refrigerant because new is cheap and contamination say from a compressor shorting out will clog up your capillary and sludge up your drying tube.
What about a split system that holds 10lbs and RTUS. I feel unsafe about this.
Thanks!
This is a question from somebody who doesn't really know anything on safety when working professionally with flammable gases, but shouldn't you be worried about letting the exhaust fans pull the propane out the building? Seems like if the gas were to come into contact with a motor and there were some small spark it could ignite. Or are the motors sealed/the gas so spread out at that point that this couldn't really happen?
I get the not cutting out the old FD. What about covering the new 1 while brazing? Just forgot or?