THIS is WHY I do what I do.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2024
- Tonight we're addressing some speculation about a recent analysis video, by using objective data to confirm the facts!
Referenced Video - • We've Only Just Begun ...
0:00 Intro
3:05 Karen Carpenter Isolated
4:00 Tori Holub Isolated
4:48 Repeatable Analytical Accuracy
6:51 Vocal Line Comparison
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Fil!!!
Thank you so much for this video, and again for the last. Your process is so fascinating!
Your videos have brought so many wonderful new people to our channels. We really can’t thank you enough. The next cover is on its way!
So many of the comments on that last video were ridiculously black and white- either we “used the original track” and “there’s no way that’s not Karen singing,” or it “sounds nothing like the original” and “you’re stupid if you think she sounds like Karen.” (Which is the basis for a lot of my original content as well, although majority of people are kind.)
We paid tribute to what we believe is one of the greatest groups in history. We spent the time to learn about and recreate the recording process as authentically as possible, and like you said, those comments really take away from the hard work and time that especially James Wilkas (producer/musician) and the other musicians put in.
So thank you for putting the comment war to rest! There are a lot of differences between our voices. Karen was the GOAT! Any song I sing of hers is with complete respect to the enormous legacy that she and Richard left behind.
Tori
The first time I heard you sing, I thought I heard Karen, and really had to do a double-take on it. It even resulted in some videos which I’d otherwise never made. I took the liberty to do a comparison on the Burt Bacharach medley too, even though that needed more tempo tweeking 😅 Hope you all like it.
Don’t worry about the negative comments Tori.
You’re a wonderful singer in your own right. Your voice IS similar to KC but there are subtle differences.
Keep up the wonderful singing and production that you and Jim do. 😊
You did the Carpenters Bacharach medley Challege; and it was bad ass. All your videos are very nice. I subscribed to your channel.
You go girl… you did her proud!
Tori, your vocals and energy is heavenly good!
You are one of those *very rare!) artists that are simply a bliss to enjoy, I believe you'll fly high!
Listening you sing brings so much peace!
I was very familiar with Karen Carpenter's original back in the day as I was growing up. After about 2 seconds, I could tell the difference in tonality.
Yes, me too. Sounded very obviously different to me. Though kudos to whoever did the vocal. Great job
Me too.
Their voices sound the same when they are belting it out but singing quietly Karen’s voice has a more complex sweeter sound to it. They are both beautiful.
Different but equal in quality.
Lanie Gardner singing Stevie Nicks is eerily similar. I couldn't believe it. Same here.
I have listened to the original track probably thousands of times. (The curse of an OCD adolescent!). I didn’t ever think it was the original track. Her vibrato is not the same but does sound so similar and the cover is truly magnificent.
Exactly. I played the new version to 6 or 7 people at work on my phone and two of them instantly recognized that the two voices are not exactly alike.
I completely agree. Tori is obviously a huge Carpenters fan and has worked together her voice as close to Karen’s as possible. I can’t wait to see what she does next
@@CurioByBSpokeDesigns I agree, she's close and good but not Karen!
Can you answer the question. What’s the point? Do we need an exact copy…though per your ears she failed. With her voice, a more interpretive rendition would be refreshingly welcome. Just me…
I so get the “OCD adolescent” 😂👍🏻
When I watch your videos I think back to my boring music teacher in school and why I never learned anything. Every kid needs a teacher like you. Just brilliant!
Absolutely!!! His analysis show how little I learned in the 8 years I took piano.
Yes! Passion comes through and he’s illustrating relevance. 🎉
Hey, not all music teachers are boring!!! Gotta keep it real, relevant and fun!!!
Il n'y a pas de mauvais élèves, seulement de mauvais enseignants.
One other thing to other listeners of this. The orginal analysis has so many more views than Tori's orginal video. Fil obviously deserves all the views he is getting but if you enjoyed hearing Tori please follow Fil's link and help support a new and upcoming artist.
Thanks for that. Will do...
EDIT, done...
Done
When she releases original music I’ll tune in. Or maybe she has?
@@Spo-Dee-O-Dee- That's right. Even the Beatles.
Great point!
People complaining you're using a phone's technology to dissect the vocals is hilarious. People can literally use a smartphone to shoot a movie. Love the content on this channel.
["Karen was the GOAT" - Tori Holub] This pretty much says it all. And it shows tons of love and respect for Karen by Tori. She knows as well as anyone what millions of us have always known: that one of the most beautiful sounds in the musical universe was Karen Carpenter singing a song. Any song. Tori is the best of all the numerous Karen "tribute artists" and "sound-a-likes" that we've heard frequently over the years. And it is a big tribute to Karen that so many have tried so hard to sound like her. Many were very good, but none have ever completely succeeded because its simply physically impossible - they would have to have the very same exact anatomical structure and physiological processes. Karen's sound - her tonality - was unique to her, and incomparable. Her voice was warm and rich and deep and resonant and mesmerizing. It was the vocal equivalent of a 17th century vintage Stradivarious cello. One could not take one's ears off of it. Tori has a lovely voice herself, and we hope she has a long career of her own with a lot of great original material - and lets also hope she never stops "singing Karen", maybe including several, say, 3 song medleys into her own concerts and recordings. She is so obviously a very talented young woman!
You made my heart swell because you touched on what so many ignore. Tori’s love of Karen. She’s a super-fan and used to have a video showing her collection. You can see in her videos the pictures , signs and shirts she wears. It’s deep inside her. So well said. ❤
Joe
WORDS - MUSIC
But she’s nothing like Karen. It’s actually not a good thing this Tori girl sings Karen’s songs. Nobody sings like Karen and nobody ever will.
The sheep
I love Tori
“Facts don’t care about feelings.” Wiser words couldn’t be said. Great stuff Fil.
Facts don’t care about feelings. Love that!
To me, Tori's voice became clearly different (and unique) as soon as she sang the third word, "just". The proof is right at the start.
No it is not Karen. But it is the closest I've ever heard in my life! Great job Fil.
I was very impressed with her voice, but I could hear there wasn't quite as much warmth and expression in Tori's voice. Who can match Karen's voice? Tori comes sooooo close!
@@qwert826Y You say less warmth? I respectfully disagree with that one. But I guess that's what makes music so subjective. I don't know how many Tori songs you have listened to but I consider that one of her strengths!
@@ronraskind I agree with you on that, but I call it Timbre. I think perhaps the "warmth" the other poster was talking about comes from life experiences they'd had while listening to the original.
Karen had a delicate quality to her voice. Tori's voice had a warm tone and slightly deeper. Both voices are lovely.
I DO HEAR A SLIGHT TENSENESS OR STRAIN IN TORI'S VOICE IN A CERTAIN PLACE
I watched the first video. I knew instinctively that Tori Holub was singing her own, orginal cover, even though she was about 99% close to sounding like Karen Carpenter. Even my untrained ear noticed very subtle differences between Tori's phrasing and Karen's phrasing of certain words. But Tori Holub is still amazing.
"her own, original cover"? If it's a cover, it's not an original.
@@pstanton2445 “Unique” is probably a better word
Fil, you are always so diplomatic and good natured in your videos. You do such wonderfully clear and well-explained presentations.
Tory has such a fantastic voice, it sounds deeper to me but really, really close
I subscribed to her channel right after the last video. great demo of the vocals 2x👍
Tori voices sounds thicker, maybe little deeper, but also like Karen a mezzosoprano voice ( never thought her to be a contraalto like Lizz Wright or Tracy Chapman etc)...Tory sounds "slavic"to me on her Timbre...I think, she originally also comes from eastern europe
Take it for what it is, Tori is an _amazing_ singer !!!
Shout out to this incredible singer !!!!!
Another great Carpenter cover by Ksenia of “Leonid and Friends” a Russian group covering Chicago, EWF, and others. An amazing cover of Superstar. Hope you're well Fil, I know you were unwell a while back. Cheers from 🇨🇦
Thanks for laying the smack down on any debate about the cover video & Tori & Co.'s amazing work. Congrats on reaching 351k subscribers! 💯🤑🤘
The smile that comes across your face when you listen to vocals...
I value a good quality 'reinterpretation' cover as well as a cover that seeks to stay faithful to the original.
Both have value, IMO.
Couldn’t have said that better 👍🏻
If I was casually listening I might mistake Tori for Karen however if your're paying careful attention you can her a difference. I love that Tori did this and vshe's getting attention from it. Otherwise I might have never heard of her. I do have hopes that she will also do originals and/or do covers in which she makes them her own songs. She is so good I don't want her to be only known as a Karen Carpenter vocal clone.
Who is Tory ,(Amos). ?
@@BrianMarcus-nz7csTori Holub
I've already heard her do other stuff. I think she had been studying Carpenters closely to understand how they created their sound, trying to recreate it, etc. She can clearly sing as KC did, but yes you can hear a difference. Which is fine.
On Tori’s channel she explains why she did a recreation. This reminds me of in 2003 engineers tried to recreate the Wright Brothers flight using materials available to them in 1903, with a deadline of the 100th anniversary of the historic flight. The engineers failed. In her challenge, Tori, with her vocal and musical talents, succeeded.
I’m so glad that you do what you do! This is an excellent comparison. Thanks Fil.
Fil, you are the best! I appreciate all the details you highlight as it makes me appreciate the artists even more. Thank you so much!
I hear a difference, a soul difference. Both lovely. Karen's rules. I trust you, Phil.
Fantastic way of putting it. I remember this song coming on as the "last dance" for junior high dances, and Karen's voice had such a innocent sexuality that we all knew the evening had ended perfectly.
Who is Phil?
Fil@@Fitzrovialitter
I absolutely agree, it’s the “soul” thing.
Same here. Before she finished the first phrase I knew it wasn't Karen's voice.
Facts can’t be denied. They don’t care about feelings! Truth!!
Thanks Fil. I enjoyed your previous video so much that I went to James' and Tori's channels to find out more. Tori has a wonderful voice and that performance of 'We've Only Just Begun' made the hair on the back of my neck stand up - just as the original always does. That's enough for me as someone who enjoys listening to music. Your analysis of the authenticity of the production is evidence of Tori's abilities as a singer and performer which is often sadly overlooked nowadays.
Some people just like to tear down and criticize, it's their problem. Just keep doing what you're doing
Hi Fil,
Interesting points in today’s video. Makes sense they would use a click track as a guide. It is hard to replicate Karen’s voice, but Tori has a beautiful voice in her own right. And The Devil is in the Details as you breakdown things so clearly. And your explanations are understandable and backed up with proof. Thanks for doing this video and again clarifying the facts for those nonbelievers! Great job… Debbie☮️
these technical breakdowns are fascinating
I don't need fancy software to prove to me that it's a different voice. The relax and warm voice of Karen is unique.
Indeed. I tend to call it "smokey". Dunno why, it's just the first thing that comes to mind.
@@Cyber.Lynx. exactly. Smoky is the word. Their is no Karen's clarity.
Perfect illustration of why you have added the use of P M, isolated vocals to your analysis videos.
It is amazing that none of the vocal lines matched despite the noted accuracy of both vocalists---proof!
Fil is the best at this.😊
He sure is!!
Absolutely!!
Certainly the most interesting.
Right on FIL. I love the analysis videos. I find myself watching many performances and noticing the things that you show us to look for. Thanks, my friend
This is SO COOL! Yes, I like to see scientific proof, too! Excellent job, Fil!! 🤘
Fil, you just get so delighted by doing these videos. You are so thorough and detailed. I’ve learned so much. Keep on keeping on!
Thank you kindly, Fil, for this amazing analysis video! I have seen and heard the proof and i trust you completely! Congratulatuons on hitting 351k subscribers! You ROCK! 🤘💜🙂
Thanks!
Great further analysis Fil! Thanks for the deeper dive.
Joe
I would think that our singing voices are like fingerprints, not one is exactly the same. My ears are not the best trained, but I can hear the subtle differences between Karen and Tori. Tori's sounds a little darker in tone and smoother and Karen's is a little brighter and more resonance to it. Not taking away from Tori...she sounds great and it's a great cover. I would like to hear a couple more from Tori to see how she in the words of Fil "gets on". JMO.
Jippii, I heard it too, that Tori has a slightly darker timbre to her voice. I really like that artists might perfrom any song they like very much, not caring too much about original and cover, but of course still respecting copyright. Thank you, Fill, you give all of us kick by bringing us the facts! We can ourselves add the feelings and opinions when needed! 😀 I do like to learn about your feelings and opinions, too!
Great breakdown Fil!
Its unbelievable how close the voices are!
Never thought anyone could cover Karen well!
That was amazing!!!
Rock On.......🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Jeff C Smith
WLA, CA......
We appreciate all your work & analysis videos. Thanks Fil😊🍀🍻🏜🌈
Karen uses a higher placement in her “uh” and “ih” vowels. She was an alto choral singer - she was likely taught to lift her soft palate and the corners of her mouth just slightly to stay on the upper partial of a note either 1) when navigating her passagio or 2) on an ascending sustained line. Greatly benefits intonation. The degree to which her vocal texture lightens considerably as she ascends is one of her vocal signatures.
She was not an alto, she was a contralto.
@@ronniecorral3545 my dear, she may have been a contralto in terms of range, but I specifically pointed out she learned the basics of placement and vowel tracking as a choral alto (as in she had personal instruction as an alto during her years in high school). Altos in a choral setting are (if properly taught) to avoid a natural tendency to bring the heavy weight of the lower chest voice when navigating the passagio, shifting to a lighter forward placement which is what I can hear as she crosses into G# and A
@@kcindc5539 Interesting. I ALWAYS hated being stuck in the Alto section in choir. I'm a Mezzo. There weren't enough Altos. I used to complain about having to sing "the icky part." My ear naturally goes to main melody.
@@kcindc5539 Are you a voice teacher,sure sound like one!! My teacher is Charles C Clark. He trained Gwen Stefani among a few.
Thank you for presenting this in a way that everyone should be able to understand! You Rock Fil!!! 💜
Tori Holub and Jim did a real time recording with perfection; many thanks to them, and yourself for the analysis. ❤.
I really appreciate your enthusiasm and attention to detail. I've learned alot and my appreciation for music is significantly better. 😊
I’m glad you did this. Comparison may be the thief of joy, but in this case, it was the proof of truth. Both voices are so full and beautiful, it was lovely to see the actual difference in the soulfulness. Thanks Fil!
Thanks Fil. Your videos are among my favorites. I appreciate all you do.
It's phenomenal how similar their voices are. They even have the same lisp.
Well stated, Fil (or is it Phil?) anyway, brilliant. Keep doing what you do. It's priceless.😍🤩
Excellent video Sir..! You are correct, Tori has a little richer sounding voice in the low mids than Karen did, but they sound remarkably similar. One other observation, I believe you have, without mentioning it, demonstrated the "magic" of double tracking vocals, (or guitars). No two takes are ever going to be exactly the same, and those minor differences make for a fuller track when the multiple tracks are mixed together. I'm wondering if a video that demonstrates this might be of value to your viewers, assuming you haven't done that video already... 😎
Great follow up analysis and the way you explain things in detail is always appreciated. 😊🎸🎵
These vocal analyses you do are just the most fascinating videos on YT. I wish my mom had made me take music lessons as a kid so I could be this confident and well spoken on the subject. Keep ‘em coming!
Ah, well people COULD deny it, they just wouldn't be correct! :) Thanks for the discussion of the software, very interesting to know!
Karen’s voice is so much richer.
Thanks Fil, it's always great to hear facts. And facts you have scientific proof to back up.
Thanks again for the great analysis video!
thanks for your commentary. You have convinced me on your tool. I love your analyses.
Fil. It is profoundly moving to watch, listen, and learn from your work. Your commitment to the holistic integrity of music on so many levels is as essential as those many, yet sometimes few seekers of facts, and actual knowledge. You speak as though words have actual meanings that we need to understand and agree on in order to communicate! HERESY! lol! Anyway, this boomer who lived through and loved almost every form of music--never could dig didgeridoos-- since my ears began working in 1955 or so absorbs and adores your analyses. You're an exquisite archivist.
It could be auditory hallucinations as a throwback of a misspent youth that might have brushed up against reality expanding um, ways of being, but I could hear the difference immediately. Could be because when the song came out, it was played on the radio every 14 minutes or so, around the clock. FM was just past its infancy, and it was mostly played on AM. Karen's voice has a slightly more gossamer texture, or timbre, or whatever you wanna call it, and Tori's has an ever so slightly thicker quality to it. We're talkin' microns here... it is a fantastic, exquisite cover.
Deepest respect and appreciation to you.
Some can hear the differences right away, however they spent their youth haha!
I was about to say the exact same thing word for word
for those who don't get it, using the original track as a reference is like singing in the car to a track on the radio. try the same song without the radio and you'll see that won't have the same timing, or even pitch.
Very interesting Fil. I respect what you do and obviously you enjoy it. Thanks bro
Great proving explanation! I love it! Oh and I watched your review video of Tori four times! It was so worth these two hours of my life!
Thanks for comparing both vocals. Two beautiful voices.
Not only will two different voices never match up, even two takes from the same voice, the same singer, will never match up.
And listening to the two voices as we did here, one could clearly hear a difference, so when someone says they are the same, I have to wonder about the quality of their sound reproducing equipment.
Cheers
Or wonder about the quality of their hearing.
Really enjoy your videos, thanks from Utah
Wow, I really enjoyed your Tori Holub video and now this one about the pitch monitoring app. Your detailed explanations are really fascinating and also easy to understand, the way you present it all.
She sounds similar, but not the same
Karen has brilliant crystal clear tone. Like a Telecaster guitar. Very articulate pitch and tone. Tori is hitting the same notes, but her vocal chamber and cords do not deliver the precise tone that Karen is famous for. More like a Gibson Humbucker. A thicker, not as precise note. Not as Karen can get. I remember a trumpet player who was trying to exactly copy Louis Armstrong. Pops talked to him and explained he needed to find his own, unique sound. Great advice in the 1930s and today. Copying will limit your own talents. Thanks so much Fil.
Your analysis videos are so cool! Keep 'em coming!!
wow. thank you for spotlighting her. Brought a tear and a smile at the same time
Thanks, Fil. I’m getting tired of the trolls.
We keep asking for real singers, and you show us one, and it turns into a troll fest.
I wish Tori well. I’ll give her a subscribe, though I’m really more into Disturbed, Alice In Chains, etc. She does have a beautiful voice.
She is not Karen, but no one is, and she doesn't need to be. She has an absolutely lovely voice, and I've been following her on TikTok for a long time.
I get a kick watching your face as you listen to your featured artists. Your own joy is so clear to me.
You are a great person and musician and your analysis is spot on. But your comment about, "Facts don't care about your feelings". I busted out loud! Keep doing it. Great stuff!
And it also shows the infinitely subtle differences that particularize each performer…. Btw, i could immediately hear the difference, although i could also attribute differences it to a different unique performance, or microphone,
Great update as always Fil. Sad news today about the death of Steve Harley from Cockney Rebel.
He wrote and sang at least three classic singles in Judy Teen, Make Me Smile and Mr Soft, in my opinion. Great records.
So interesting, as usual! Thanks for all your great videos
Youare a man after my own heart. I was a sound engineer in the 70/80s. I mixed some big names.
It's like fingerprints. No two voices are alike.
Fil, excellent example of being able to trust your analysis videos! How anyone could question your analytical abilities after watching this fact based video would baffle me ! You have actually shown us the proof ! You are brilliant in how you present the undisputable facts ! Great work , Fil ! Definitely validates the software you use as well as your analysis videos being based on facts ! Just genius!
I agree. Just curious though, why do you put spaces between your words and the exclamation point?
@kevinm6790 Well, I have to put spaces between words, or they would all run together . The use of exclamation marks is something that I have a tendency to overuse . It seems to just be a habit that I need to break and only use the exclamation mark in the correct situation. 🤔 As for putting a space between a word and an exclamation mark , it is just a habit . Nice to know you agree with my comment !
@@veramilton833 I see. I should have been more clear. I meant the spaces between the ends of words and the exclamations. For example: Great job ! Instead of Great job!
@@kevinm6790 Great question . I thank you for bringing this to my attention. I didn't even realize that I was doing that until you pointed it out! I am going to have to break that habit! 🙂
Hey Fil, fantastic job proving out that facts really do exist. I had to laugh because in my mind, I was thinking about everyone’s claim that a person can have their “own truth” and that facts don’t matter.
In a fun way, you put that to rest - at least to those of us with common sense. Keep up the great work - it’s entertaining to watch.
As always, interesting stuff! Thank you..❤
I can hear the difference.
Nothing wrong with Tori's voice, beautiful.
Let's hear what she can do
great video Fil. audibly i can actually tell the difference between karen and toris voice but they are very very close
Hey Fil ~ You are absolutely correct when you say that Tori has a "deeper" tone of voice. I noticed that immediately. Thanks for this amazing side by side view. It's very interesting to note how Karen has a "strong" vibrato, and Tori has almost none.
Wow. They could be twins, Karen and Tori! Man! I've heard similar-sounding singers, but ... not quite this closely similar!
Thank you for what you do. Thank you for taking people saying one thing and proving how it simply can't be the original vocal.
The cover doesn't have the lifting that Karen has 😊
Will never forget that time my dad bought some bootleg CDs from a trip to Asia and one of them was The Carpenters. Within a few notes my mom was like, it’s pretty good but that’s Not Karen Carpenter. This cover was much closer but you can definitely hear it in the isolated vocal.
Another one that reminded me of Karen’s voice at some parts was Samantha Barks singing “Another Suitcase in Another Hall” from Evita. ❤
Such a great job, FIL. You explain things so well that even a drummer can understand them. (yes.. I've been a drummer)
Thank you again for explaining all of this...very cool !
I like both ...Thanks, Fil!
I don't understand how someone could mix this up. Sure, from a room or two away you might not be able to easily tell the difference between the original and the cover, but if you can hear it well, you can tell it's a different recording, and indeed, different voices.
I have complete respect for you Fil. You have taught me sooo much. Some I didn't really want to know but needed to know. You have taught me about to physiology, technicality and originality of musicians from yesteryear and today, and I thank you for it. God bless from an adoring Yank.
Awesome stuff phil, you have yourself a new subscriber. Not just for the great vids i've watched this evening but for exposing me to tori holub. I didn't think i would ever hear a voice anywhere near karen carpenter's....but tonight i did! That you so much sir.
No problem and thanks for subbing!
There is no doubt that Tori Holub is an amazing vocalist and about as close to Karen as anyone could ever be. With that said, anyone who grew up listening to Karen Carpenter can hear the differences, as minute as they may be. Mostly, I can tell the differences in the timbre of Tori’s upper range. What I love about Tori is the fact that she is bringing Karen back into relevance so that the younger generation will know who she is and how amazing she was! As a gigging musician in his 50s I can’t tell you how many younger artists who have never heard of Karen Carpenter :-(
As someone who has a good ear for voices, it is astonishing to me that anyone can think the voices are the same; Karen had SUCH a distinctive voice, no matter how good the impersonation, it will never match the quality of the original. It's the same as when people online seem to think that two different faces are the same person, I ask myself "is there something missing in your brain that makes you unable to differentiate between two different people?" The same applies here, Karen's voice is like a fingerprint, the differences are so clear it baffles me that anyone cannot instantly hear it.
I agree, I could hear the difference immediately
I agree. Tori does not have perfect pitch but she does sound eerily similar to Karen.
Me too, it sounded quite different to me.
Yes! Karen's voice was smooth as butter. This girl is the closest I've heard but not Karen.
@@Rkbmomma, We don’t know if Tori has perfect pitch. She might. Perfect pitch is a hearing skill.
Great analysis of your analysis Fil! Always informative.
I saw the comparison video before seeing this analysis of yours. I noticed the voice crack on the one and not the other (I don't recall Karen doing that, really at all. It seemed unusual.). Although their voices are uncannily similar, it's easy to verify that Tori wasn't using Karen's vocal in some sort of scam by simply listening to Tori sing other songs. They sound like Karen is singing them. It's a blessing that such a voice is here again. Wonderful.
Tori is remarkably good but definitely sounds different to Karens vocal. The software makes it obvious.
It's a testament to the quality of the original that a talented singer wants to pay homage to the track.
Another 1K subscribers.
What he started saying at min 9:32 is something I wish EVERYONE would understand!
Facts are unarguable.
Great to see this video, you’ve done exactly what I wanted you to do last time. Their voices are incredibly similar, but there is a difference if you really listen.