BMW E46 Rear Subframe Reinforcement DIY (Epoxy Method)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
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This do it yourself I show how to reinforce the BMW E46 subframe mounting points using the epoxy and reinforcement plate method. The car shown in the video is a 2002 BMW E46 M3 Convertible. The plates I used were made by Turner Motorsports, and the epoxy used is 3M 08115. Stay tuned for the additional method of reinforcement, BMW Structural Foam method. Comment down below for any questions or video requests.
Videos Mentioned:
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How To Remove Rear Suspension: • How To Remove BMW E46 ...
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Good Video and what i really like is that you have proven that not all E46's have cracks as the subframe looked great.....
THIS VIDEO APPLIES TO CARS WITH NO SUBFRAME CRACKS. IT IS PREVENTATIVE. THERE ARE OTHER METHODS OF DOING THIS REPAIR, WHICH IS WHY IT IS TITLED "EPOXY METHOD", THE EASIEST METHOD FOR A DIY'ER.
Jason, Do you have a diy on replacing the vanos seals. Off topic i know, but don't know if I can't find the diy or if you haven't done it. thx
The first sentence literally says "WITH NO SUBFRAME CRACKS". If yours is cracked, buy a new floor. They're about $450. Cut that one you have out and weld the new one in. THEN this applies to you.
Hey man long time subscriber and love the videos, but as a welder I have to put it out there and WARN everyone that simply epoxy sticking the reinforcement plates isn't reinforcing anything. The subframe will still Crack underneath the plates. YOU HAVE TO WELD THEM IN. The reinforcement you get from the plates only comes when you have blended the edges of the plates to the subframe which adds the structural rigidity. The subframe is 100% still flexing under the plates, epoxy is so incredible soft and flexible it's doing nothing but gluing the plates in place.
I would have at least added a few rivets per plate and personally would have used structural adhesive provided by BMW. Panel bonding can be just as strong if not stronger than welds. BMW repair procedures calls for panel bonding in most applications. With bonding and rivet bonding, there is no heat generated that would weaken the steel, allowing the steel to retain its strength. Another reason for bonding and rivet bonding is the increased corrosion resistance of the repair joints. We glue and rivet on frame rails.. (coming from a BMW/Mini & Audi Porsche CCRC). If anyone is to use this method ADD RIVETS before the glue dries. Don't just simply add glue.
@@cooperastro2690 the bolt from the subframe is pushing them together, youd have to bend the reinforcement plate in order to also bend the subframe. hate to tell u that ur wrong bu. have u ever welded a support before? using a thick piece of metal over a thinner piece to reinforce it? the stronger piece if metal is doing the reinforcing, the weld is just holding it in place the spots that are on the perimeter of the support piece are susceptible to cracking but not the support or under it. nothing against the collar but theres a reason they have blue and white. blue knows how to weld understands the dynamics
THANK YOU SIR!!! VERY HELPFUL video as always. I was planning to weld, but your video convinced me the epoxy method is the way to go.
Hey man ! I love all your videos I am restoring a 2003 BMW M3 E46 6 speed and right now I am on the plate reinforcement , I have everything prepped and ready to roll. please respond back asap please ! Okay So I am Mocking the plates up and I do have the option to weld and I also have the adhesive to do the adhesive method. There is "no" subframe cracks luckily ! but upon reading the Kit's instructions it says that installing the "two" in the trunk plates is vital to establish proper structural reinforcement. I am not attempting to be lazy but I am not the best welder and would much prefer doing the adhesive method. Now since I have "no" subframe cracking and literally refreshing and upgrading everything on the car can I just do the adhesive and skip the trunk plates "which I would prefer" ? and as for the two small 2/3 triangle plates with two holes do those mount on the "separate subframe bracket ? or like the other ones on the bottom of the car ? also thanks for the suspension video I did purchase the ST coilover kit because of the information you provided about the kit and wow what a quality kit !
Thanks for the vid mate! I recently started hearing a tik tik tik noise whenever I was turning from rear. I was scared that my subframe mounts are shot. Got car on stands removed wheels and looked carefully under each mount and could not see any cracks. Then I took shocks and springs out to check out bushings. I started wiggling control arms up and down then could reproduce the tik tik sounds exactly as I heard when I was driving. It was coming from two bushings from balance bar. Put some silicone spray on them and the noise is gone. Really glad it worked out this way and none of my subframe mounts are cracked.
However I'm going to do the reinforcement anyway because prevention is better than cure!
Thanks mate!
Not sure if you're still active here but I intend to do mine this weekend and as of now I see no cracks. How long has this 3m 8115 lasted? Have you checked it after this work?
YOU'RE A BOSS
Subscribed just because I'm doing this job and I'm happy somebody has made a video on it
Hey man long time subscriber and love the videos, but as a welder I have to put it out there and WARN everyone that simply epoxy sticking the reinforcement plates isn't reinforcing anything. The subframe will still Crack underneath the plates. YOU HAVE TO WELD THEM IN. The reinforcement you get from the plates only comes when you have blended the edges of the plates to the subframe which adds the structural rigidity. The subframe is 100% still flexing under the plates, epoxy is so incredible soft and flexible it's doing nothing but gluing the plates in place.
While Im certainly inclined to agree with you, I also have to point out that there are supercars whos entire front and rear body sections are joined using only epoxy.
@@Projekt5.3 that may be true, but we're usually talking about carbon mono tub chassis with those cars, all the structure and reinforcement is engineered into the design of the carbon. Here we are talking about 20 + year old 14 Guage, pinchwelded steel...significantly different and not something you want to be trusting epoxy to "reinforce". The only way to do it Is to weld it in. Combing the parent with the base metal is literally where the reinforcement comes from.
@@cooperastro2690 Hell I think 14 gauge is being generous haha
@@Projekt5.3 true 😂
BMW’s official procedure is to use structural foam…. I’ll just leave it at that.
Thanks for uploading, this is a very important video. Nice music as well
awesome video's man ! clear, good tips, perfectly filmed ...
keep up the good work ;)
The actual reason the crack is the design of the subframe, only two of the mounts take the majority of the force. That’s why it’s almost always the back left that goes first.
Hi Jason, cane you make a video about the exhaust of your car and how to obtein a great sound please?
your the man great video, so in for the structural foam video
I'm about to do all 4 today, this video will help for sure 👍👍
so this is to prevent the frame from cracking. does it holds up ok. or should i just weld the plates in. meaning is the strength aprox the same?
How has this held up with the epoxy method
Hey what protective sauce do you recommend applying after the job is done? mine's just been welded but it's bare metal and I want to protect it.
Hey, seam sealer, etch primer on bare metal and under coating. Some undercoatings can be applied directly to bare metal as well.
if the area which cracked has soft steel, doesnt this just mean the plate will be resting on top of that soft steel?
And spreading the force evenly across all of it, yes.
Hi Jason, i came across this method 3m epoxy but not sure which one to choose 3m dp420 or the one you used 3m 08115? Just need an opinion. Thanks
how much epoxy did you end up needing to use? just one tube?
Wait, this doesn't affect Sedan? Only Convertibles and Coupe?
Hey man I have a question about this video specifically about the plates for the trunk portion
Is the M3 more prone to failure because it is lowered compared to a standard one?
or just because of the additional power and likelihood of being driven harder?
More power
For the people wondering if the epoxy method would work yes it would at least for a regular e46 , all the plate is really doing is acting like a washer distributing the load over a bigger area . Might even get away with not epoxying it
Ah, this is definitely assuring. Thanks!
Bad info. Way more to this than just a "washer". It really needs to be welded.
@@chadwickmorehead5115 structural adhesives and rivets are viable and the recommended route as they are much stronger than welds. BMW repair procedures actually calls for bonding and riveting on new body panels rather than welding. We spot weld some areas when needed.
LOOOL, i guess thats one of the reasons why i was specifically looking for my M3 that would not have reinforcement done so i could do it myself properly, rather than having it done by a banana hands using super-glue previously..
When I seen the glue gun I was like wtf 😂😂 why don’t you just stich weld that plates on geezus fuck
Yet if you take your e46 to a dealer to have it done, they’ll panel bond it. Ignorance is strong with you
Wonder what it is that makes the 'earlier years' more prone to the issue exactly versus the later years
Hey I got a question for you man. I have a 99 z3. It has a M54 engine in it. Can I do a S54 Swap relatively easily? Like would I have to weld in new motor mounts? Or could I move the mounts on the engine to work with my stock mounts?
This is irrelevant to the video but do the mirrors from a 2002 325i fit a 325ci? And also i was wondering if i could swap out the manual driver and passenger seats with the power sports seats in my 325ci?
Does it actrually help prevent it?
Love your videos. What can we do if there is damage already? Is it the same procedure? Thanks!
No, get a new floor. The compromised metal can be welded but that shifts the stress and can cause other hairline cracks. Cut out the floor and buy a new one in the trunk.
Nice Video. I am from Germany and it is Not easy to get the 3M epoxy You use. You think JB Weld Original work good as same?
very informative video, thanks a lot for making it
How much exopy did you use if only the 1tube what's the quantity
A $2.50 wire cup brush from Harbor Freight works much better than the tools you used for cleaning down to bare metal for the purpose of adhesion.
I wonder if the wagons suffer this also? I don't own a e46 just yet but would like to own a touring one in the near future.
All of them. Fundamental flaw in the chassis design, worse in higher hp trims.
Great vid. Thanks for posting.
How many tubes of that panel bond are needed? The shit is more expensive than gold in Australia.
How much does a job like this generally cost?
Love your videos. How much is it to do this work? I've been wanting to do this for sometime now... I have a ZHP sedan.
Brad Hak It'd be around 1-2,000 I believe due to labor costs
Do you know if this what the dealership did during the subrame recall? Had my 2000 323i done at dealer (long time ago).. hopefully not a cheaper band aid fix
DG they put structural foam inside of the frame through the holes. They don't weld plates in. The body is hollow so they just fill it up to make it much stronger and reduce metal play
Does the M3 subframe removal differs of the other video you posted time ago about the E46 rear suspension removal? i´d like to do the complete reinforcement job on my E46 M3 but would like to have a nice guide to unmount the subframe first ;)
Excellent video, thank you!!
For an e46 that I'm planning to drift is it better to weld the plates on or will epoxy be enough? I'm not too sure about using epoxy to strengthen this area... But will definitely be something I would be able to do myself as I do not know how to weld or even have anywhere to do so.
If your drifitng you need welds and a full kit
Never mind 2 years late 😂 what did you end up doing?
@@XanderMukbang I bought the E46 👍😂
Do you have any videos of torn subframe mount repair ?
How much would you charge todo all the labor of this? (Including replacing bushings and install 3.46 diff) I have diff, bushings and reinforcement plates just want the labor
sounds like someone is building a spec e46
What kind of tool did you use to cut the plates? Thanks.
Is that gonna hold? Is it not better to welding it together? I Beenthink to but a BMW e46 330ci:) any meaning on that CAR?
I would recommend adding a few rivets on each reinforcement. Bonding and riveting is stronger than welds. BMW repair procedures call for glue and rivets when sectioning out body panels.
hey man nice to see you got a lift.
I can't imagine doing this job on jack stands, but do you think it's doable?
thanks for taking the time to cover this topic
MK Its possible, but it's just going to be more difficult
yeah think it'll be a pain in the ass havin to lay under the car on my back having debris fall onto my eyes. my 330ci only has 120k on it and no subframe issues yet but i plan on reinforcing sometime
MK Try to ask your local garage if you can borrow their jack lift for the weekend. Get a friend or two to look out for you and support you. If you have to use jack stands, well then get some googles to protect your eyes, and just be careful when removing things. Good luck! I'm going to do this with jack stands alone. Might be using 3-4 days total.
you get debris in your eyes just as much on a lift.
you're not laying on your back with a lift
yo shoplifeTV I have a similar lift to yours. when I bought the garage it came with 4 extra arms similar to the ones on your lift. they look like they would be better for getting my bmw on the lift. can you make a video showing how to change the arms of the lift?
does the E46 NON M facelift need this? Is welding the differential going to affect the subframe?
freedomlifemake 25 welding the diff will for sure destroy the subframe mounting points
Good video. The hoist definitely helps when making a video
Awesome videos!! Where would I go to pick up the epoxy?
How susceptible to tear is the subframe of E46 3 series wagon?
As susceptible as the rest of them! The convertibles are probably the least likely to tear, but there are instances of those as well
Has anone done this years ago? Am wondering how well it held up
We have the epoxied plates on our LS3 swapped E46 that also has the Vincebar and no issues. Also have installed this on numerous other cars with no reported issues
Can i weld those plates on or do you have to use epoxy i kinda don't trust it?
Someone has tryed a rivet method is the same that welding, cheaper , and easy like epoxy method.
Obviusly only for preventivate not for cracked chassis
I would recommend using panel bond along with rivets. Bonding and riveting is stronger and will hold up better than welding.
is the e46 a good car for "new drivers"?
they cost a bit to maintain but otherwise nice cars
death trap mate
You make the vid about the structural "foam" yet matey? Big fan of your work by the way.
Seems like all e46's crack, sooner or later?
Thank you for sharing.
My E46 with a 1.9 liter engine managed to crack the mounting points. So I would say yes.
What size are the bolts that are being used for the plates
Will this stop existing cracks getting worse?
no.
Shop life I have a 03 325i sedan would my car have the subframe crack
Potentially. I have the same year 330i and I'm planning on bringing the VIN to the dealer to see if any such work has already been done on my '03. If not, I think this would be a valuable piece of preventative maintenance as our cars get over 200k miles.
I would have applied epoxy to both surfaces before putting them together. Just a thought.
Can I still use the epoxy method even if the subframe has separated?
Bennett Donan no
I want to do the epoxy method, but 3m 08115 is kind of expensive where I live ~ 85 USD and + I need a applicator/gun which is also ridiculously expensive. Does anyone has idea how Loctite TEROSON EP 5055 will fit this job? Description says that it is meant for roof and panel bonding.
I bought one tube of the stuff, which is hopefully enough. I read a genius way to get around the no gun thing: squeeze out each side of the tube into a bowl and mix it with a spoon. Apply it with a credit card or something. I'll let you know how it goes. When I saw squeeze it out, I mean get a big bolt, heat the contents and push it out with your hand, one side of the tube at a time.
Will this work just as good as welding it?
Panel bond is stronger than welds. Add a few rivets for peace of mind. BMW procedures on replacing panels actually calls for bonding and riveting rather than welding.
Awesome video man, thanks! When do you plan on posting a follow up video to Selena's VinceBar install?
Sorry but don’t think that is a good fix, even if you weld. Reason is because the frame is not thick enough to support all that stress, so eventually it will crack around the fix, trust me. How thick is that repair metal plate kit?
can you put a reinforcement plate even tho u have no cracks?
Yes, you are supposed to do it before it cracks, it helps prevent it from cracking!!!!😁
what if your shits already cracked? is this vid not just a preventative measure?
How much would this cost me at your shop brotha?
I spoke with a tuner shop that work on high end sport cars and he mention that the problem of the Subframe cracks it happens to cars that are abuse on the track and very aggressive driving ! Not all ///M3 cars have this issue !
I never tracked or abused my m3, even never ever drifted or launched it - but I have cracks at just 45k miles
I want to do this, but I use my e46 as a daily car lol, so I cant really do it
Dertzey buy a cheap civic for 1000 bucks. Problem solved.
tommieboi707 or just rent a car
Bruh I need that tj Maxx hoodie lmao I work there but I've never seen a hoodie with our logo
you have cane a long way bro , I would have mig it
Can shitty roads make cracks appear sooner?
If you're planning on installing the plates with epoxy glue, save yourself the time and money and don't buy the kit,. Gluing in the plates is no better than not installing them in the first place. Turner Motorsports, the shop that makes and sells the kit, states that welding is *required* for correct installation.
This should be a recall on all these cars. To me this is for sure a poorly designed product for sure. Thanks again for sharing this with us. I would get rid of car before I would do anything like this.
why the hell didn't you drop the gas tank as well
why do you crack yo subframe?
doing this soon as mine has a small crack started :/ not looking forward to it
if the cracks are starting you can't do this, have to weld
Probably thee worst welds I’ve ever whitenessed, sad to even see it on a M car especially lol
Get e90 problems solved 😁
I love shoplife. turkey
Turkey is a huge human rights violator, and you're living in a dictatorship.
Wazzup by tego nawet na sylikonie nie skleił.
Welders woud bash
he finishes talking at 3:50
lmfao what a joke that is doing nothing