Lesson on Outside Playing: Go Play Outside!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
- In this video I demonstrate three different ways to practice playing outside over chord changes, whether you're already good at it or just want to start. Some lines to practice are on my blog at: somuchsound.blo.... From Sean Driscoll and somuchsound.blogspot.com.
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I can't emphasize enough how helpful these videos are. As with all genres, but especially jazz, it's critical to organize and simplify your approach, otherwise it's way too confusing. For years I years I've played by ear, hearing jazz soloing in my head and then played it but i didn't know what it was I was playing. Nobody could explain it to me and, worse, some explained it but were wrong 'cause they didn't understand it. Through watching Sean's stuff I can see knowing the major and minor scale and arpeggios can launch you into chord tone soloing, outside playing and of course ways to get back home inside. It's very organized and stripped down, but how you apply it is where it gets interesting. I want to find out next how to incorporate chromatics. I don't like reading and getting bogged down in analysis, which I'm sure is a shortcoming, but his lessons have advanced my understanding greatly.
Man I wish I saw these vids about 5-6 years ago. Your explanations are beautiful
Thanks very much George.
Really good explanation of the concept,thank you.In other words by playing inside and outside but not to far out,only one half step below and above,we are still hitting the notes that belong to the inside,that it still sounds good.I would add that by not hitting the root note for some time we can create tension,but again,not for too long because the listener will be bored.
very practical series of shorts, great illustrations of the concepts. Thank you...!
been viewing some vids. I'm totally not a jazz player so these vids are almost like magic when I watch them. I keep saying i know there's a trick to it! hahah I just never grew up hearing it or playing it. I played rock and stuff that stayed in one key or at most modulated on a chorus. Something like giant steps.... i'm totally lost. I've never even heard the tune!
good vids.
This is the best channel for learning stuff quickly. Not just for guitarists! I'm a bassist who watched the '7 Metronome Tricks' video and it completely turned my playing around. Please make some more videos, Sean!
+J. Collins Thank you for the kind comment. More are coming! I've been on a bit of a hiatus as I've been incredibly busy with gigs (a good thing) but I have a backlog now of material for more videos. Look for them in the coming months.
+Sean Driscoll Yea man your vids are rad, I'm a piano player and got a lot from them
+Llywelyn ap Myrddin Thanks very much, I appreciate that. More are coming soon. And don't forget to check out my blog where there are lots more ideas and transcriptions available for free.
+J. Collins bassist here too!
Dude... If I was still playing a lot, I'd be spending a lot of time checking out your stuff. Very clear, simple but not simplistic, unpretentiously explained ideas for folks at varying levels and interests. Good f*ckin' work.
+Forces In Motion Thank you!
man, you would be such an awesome teacher to have.
cool ideas, thanks! I love the sound of those 4ths and 5ths.
Great lesson and very challenging! Hope to see more form you.
Me..new comer.... alredy 11 yrs less than 7000 subscribers ..wow.
Thez r real lessons..thanx
Great, concise information. And I gotta say, the man can play.
Thank you sir, I appreciate that!
Hey guys-- for those asking about the 4ths and 5ths example, I have some lines and ideas posted on my blog you can download. As TH-cam will block any attempt to list the address here, you can see it on the video at the beginning and end. Have at it.
Thanks for sharing these ideas. Great stuff to work on. Inspired playing too!
Pretty sure this just changed my life. Thanks!
This is awesome, the last one really makes it more easy to take in, thanks!
Yes.. Great demonstration. Good ideas.
A superb video with some really cool ideas for playing outside - something I've been trying to do for years without too much success. Thankyou very much. Also, the playing is great and the guitar sounds fabulous.
Very informative, thanks for sharing. So, whats the difference between modal playing vs outside playing??.
Is the using major triads maj 3rd up/down borrowing from augmented harmony (as in, the tonic deviates from diatonic function and serves an augmented function)? Coltrane did this a lot I think.
Hi Mac -- that's exactly right.
sorry for this dumb question, im a pianist and this is very helpful as well but what does playing outside and inside mean?
You are great! Thank you for sharing.
Congratulations on a very helpful tutorial, Sean! Some important things for us to work on here.
excellent! thank you theses concepts have really enhanced my playing!
Great lesson! Thank you sir.
Great lesson man. Is there a transcription of that first "outside" run you did over the 4ths and 5ths? Also, are all the 4ths and 5ths just random outside 4ths and 5ths?
great practice ideas, thankyou. ive been practicing this for a while. just to be clear when you were using 4ths and 5ths you were playing C,F,G or were you playing
F maj and G maj triads?
A couple good ones to start with are Major triads a whole step apart like D & E which will make a Lydian sound and over an Altered Dominant like C7#9 try alternating a C triad with an F# triad. This is a great place for experimentation. Try different sounds yourself and see what appeals to you.
I've worked with the Coltrane and Parker M3 and m3 above and below concepts before, but am still working on blending them back into consonance. I love the idea of the third example, but Giant Steps is a bear to improvise over when you're playing the actual song, so you kind of went from 0 to 100 pretty quickly with that example, LOL. I'm going to try it with something more simple like All the Things You Are, etc. Great video!
Hola Mirkolu- When you're getting the triads under your fingers, a good way to practice them is to play them one after the other. Eventually though, when you're actually improvising it's more like your second description- you're choosing notes from one or the other. You could also stack them together as a scale but to be honest that's less interesting to me. I like playing triad pairs like this because it gets me out of linear scale playing and more into playing larger intervals.
@flatpicking It's about a 10-year old Canon digital video recorder. Couldn't tell you the type but it does the trick for the job.
Ok, thanks!! you're very kind for sharing. Final clarification, I'm learning how 2 improvise. The song I'm learning is "Don't stop the Carnival" in C Maj by S Rollins. So, if I want to play modally, then I can just play D dorian, or any mode on the c scale? or if I want to play outside, I can play maj 3rd traids below or/and above the C Maj scale? etc. I love the sound of outside playing. I feel like jumping right into learning outside before learning inside, can I ? Ok, will wait 4 your vids
Wow! Fantastic lesson!!!! Really enjoyed it.
hey sean , great lesson! but ,when playing the triads would you recommend playing one triad and then the other ?, or do you think the effect is better when playing notes of both triads in different order, like a scale
thanks! greetings from peru!
Hello,
Thank you for the video.
Could you tell us what gear are you using for this video. Wonderful tone!
What Fender is that and is it modified, pick and string? amp?
Thank you.
This was really helpful. Thanks a lot !!!
Fantastic lesson Sean !
great video Sean! loved it. i have focused on strict alternating picking for a very long time......now that i am attempting to sweep pick it is really hard to get it to feel natural despite significant efforts.....do you have an suggestions or exercises on how to integrate it into my playing? thanks.
Boy do I understand that. I have been totally reworking my picking over the past few months because I've been working on playing Charlie Parker solos which are technically demanding. I really would check out videos on youtube. I don't plan on releasing any videos on technique like this as frankly I've seen others do it a lot better. Troy Grady in particular has a great series on right hand technique on youtube that might be what you're looking for.
Thanks so much!! So just to B clear about the mode, U mention c maj, and 2 treat D as the tonic such as calling it D dorian? and is this a basic rule of thumb in jazz when playing modal?
Great lesson; thanks!
I first of all thank you for your vid. It s very clear and motivating. I understand the approach but have some question about playing a rythm over another. Your example is with giant steps over a modal groove in C. I heard that your are not applying anymore the 4 bar outside/ 4 bar in, and suppose that it s more easier to manage. But what do you think about playing like the A of giant 4 bar and play in after and do it again? Also How apply that over another tune, (tonal context)?
so does this apply only to static chords or even when there are chord progressions goin on?
Great musical concept - the final phase of the outside concepts here - THIS IS NEW. Or, maybe not as it seems to reflect on BI-TONAL MUSIC.
Excellent!! congratulations!
This applies to both static chords as well as changes. I just used static harmony for these examples so you can hear the outside lines more clearly. All these ideas work over chord changes and is where I use them all the time when performing.
Hi, about the 4ths and 5ths example; are you just playing 4ths and 5ths from C (like just a F note and a G note) or are you playing scales that are 4ths or 5ths from the home key (like F major/minor, G major/minor)?
So, you played a maj triad up a maj 3rd and down a maj 3rd from the maj backing track... if the backing track had been minor, would you have played up a min 3rd and down a min 3rd for the same effect? Great video by the way
Thanks Marcus -- if the track had been Minor, I wouldn't have played them up and down a min 3rd, although you certainly could. For the example, I chose the major 3rd up and down triads because it suggests the Augmented scale which many people perceive to be sort of inside/sort of outside, so it's a great introduction to playing outside sounds. Playing outside in minor keys is really just the same concept, but what's important as always is how you resolve your outside notes. That's really a different lesson. There are probably 100 ways of approaching this or more, I just chose the Augmented sound as an introduction.
Alright Let me start by saying, THANK YOU! These videos are incredible. I am having a few issues understanding the concept of the 2nd approach. I understand 4ths and 5ths and am trying to understand and more or less emulate what you are doing but cant get it right. Can you explain the pattern that you do Right as begin the 2nd approach? Id greatly appreciate it.
That is correct: the background is just a C ostinato with a simple clave beat for interest. It could be anything. However, when I'm improvising, I'm doing it as if I were playing over the chord changes for Giant Steps. So, you could take my improv and play the Giant Steps chord changes behind it and my solo would sound inside because I'm playing over those chord changes. But I'm superimposing them OVER the C ostinato which is why it sounds outside.
@rednut2000 I did yes, just a simple loop in Reason. I use that and Apple's Garage Band for this type of thing-- great practicing tools.
I'm very interested in this topic! Thanks!!!
Glad it was helpful!
thanks sean!! what other triad combinations would you recommend?
thanks again!!
This is great! Thanks a lot
the last exercise is awesome.
@OlegVoronin Hey man, thanks-- it's an 2008 American Strat which has been modified with DiMarzio Virtual Vintage pickups. The amp is a Roland GP-100 preamp/effects unit (just some reverb) running through a Mesa Boogie 20/20 Dyna-Watt Power amp with 2/10 Budda cabinet. The camera is picking up some string sound too.
Scary stuff demonstrated with great guitar playing
Very Nice...you're essentially playing ideas/notes that are contained in the so-called C 'Augumented scale', right? (C,D#/Eb,E,F.x./G/,G#,B). Hip stuff, thanks.
Hey Sean with the intervallic movement, what's the idea? Would it be like playing in A dorian for the inside bit, and then D dorian(4th) or E dorian(5th) for the outside part? Thanks
The ostinato is in C major -- when I'm playing inside, I'm playing notes from the C Major scale, but not in scale form -- I'm playing them intervallically, skipping around in 4ths and 5ths, so a line like: G C F B E A D A. For the outside part, I am playing extremely chromatically. There is no scale being used, I'm literally playing random 4ths and 5ths shapes as much as possible, being sure to land back inside (in the key of C) after 4 bars.
That's really cool, I suppose landing back on the tonic brings it all back together....I'm finding that seriously tough at the minute, I keep getting lost! Still, it blows my mind (but fries my brain) how 'right' outside playing sounds in short bursts like you display here. I've been playing 3 years now with very traditional theory as a learning tool but I'm only now seeing how limitless the choice is with this stuff. Love your vids, learning something new from each one! Thanks again, - Mac
Mac
I think maybe it could be harder to keep track of longer inside/outside phrases, especially if you've been playing 3 years. Keeping track of form, or time phrases is challenging and is a separate skill you're using WHILE thinking about playing inside or outside. Try shortening the phrases to 2 bars each or even 1 bar each. I think it might be a bit easier, though obviously your lines will be shorter.
Okay then I'll give that a shot. Keeping in time and getting back 'inside' does present a problem at the mo. When you're playing like this do you tend to focus on intervals of a particular key, or target certain notes/chord qualities? I do keep wondering if I'm just not ready for this kinda thing yet. Do you see any issues further down the line from attempting this sort of thing with my limited experience?
Mac It's possible you're not ready for the inside/outside switch. Anytime you encounter ANY problem with practice like this -- simplify to what you CAN do. Over a C ostinato, I would try just improvising with the Ab, C and E triads. If that's too much, Try just the Ab OR the E triad over the C ostinato just to get use to the sound. Once you feel comfortable with the playing triad shapes like this, it gets easier to add new ones and then you can move on to the inside/outside thing. Hope that helps.
Thank you very much for that great, great lesson. I started with exercise one and I have two questions and would be very grateful if I got an answer: I recognized that you sometimes play the 9 of the triad as well. E.g. a Bb when you play the Ab triad. Is that part of the plan or are these just fill notes? I am moreover wondering whether you would play the same triads over a C maj tonic, C maj subdominant and a C7 dominant chord? Thanks you very much and best regards!!
I think they only time I played the 9 was over the inside 4 bars. I could be wrong about that though. If there are any 9s over the outside 4 bars, then yes, they were probably mistakes as I was moving to one of the notes of the triads I was going for. Playing this exercise perfectly is certainly something to shoot for, but not necessary to achieve a great sound. It's more about understanding the concept and then of course making actual music with it.
As far as your second question -- yes I'd play these same triads over the tonic, subdominant or a dominant chord. Again though, it's really more about the concept then the actual notes involved. Over a dominant 7 chord, playing a triad a tritone down and a minor 3rd up from the root for instance (C7: play F# triad and Eb triad) would be a slightly better choice as it's borrowed from the Diminished scale and fits nicely over the Dominant 7 chord. The idea though is not to get hung up so much on note choices per se, but to get comfortable with superimposing outside sounds over standard chords and making it sound good.
Great, that make sense to me. Thank you very much for answering!!!
excellent lesson!!
j/k I just saw you answered this on your blog. Thanks man.
great lesson!! thnx!
Great stuff..
I like it, and I'm new to fusion, but why don't guys every phrase notes and just run three and four note trills around?
Jaymz Wolfgang Osborne I would argue if they're not phrasing, they're not good improvisors. Or certainly make it much more difficult to listen to.
Is that the bass line that you are using from footprints? Thank you for the lesson!
You're welcome! -- the bass line isn't from Footprints, it's a basic tumbao bass pattern in C.
Awesome!
@Rdallaire My short, nearly useless explanation is play the A Minor Pentatonic scale (for instance) primarily emphasizing the 4ths and 5ths shapes in (A to D, E to A, G to D) THEN, move it up or down a half step so you're now playing either Bb Minor Pentatonic or Ab Minor Pentatonic and do the same thing with the shapes/relationships between the notes.
I know this can be horribly confusing without examples. I'm going to post some exercises on my site as a lot of people seem interested in this.
@christophergradwohl For the 4ths and 5ths example, I was using the intervals of a 4th and 5th and essentially moving them around on the neck chromatically for 4 bars while aiming to land on a more consonant spot for my 4 bars of inside playing.
On guitar, this is pretty easy to do if you know the minor Pentatonic scale as the 4ths and 5ths are laid out very comfortably on the fingerboard. I have the feeling I haven't explained this really well so I'm going to post some explanations on my site.
So can you explain using music theory why the traids a major 3rd above and above can be used?
@egyptianminor That's right, the only difference being (for me), when I was playing these lines I was much more thinking about triad shapes and sounds more than scale-type playing. But anyway, the short answer is -- if you take those three triads (C, E, Ab) I'm working with and stack them, you have the Augmented scale.
It's cold outside!! nice lesson
They are not played from the triads, they really are relatively random phrases of 4ths and 5ths. With that said, I'm very conscious of where I am on the neck and where I'm headed so that there's the appropriate amount of tension caused by dissonance, and then resolution when I head into more tonal areas that I can play the intervals in.
It is a matter of courage. Just jump into that outside-area with confidence. If you play unassertively it will sound horrible. It is like a little kitten going outside for the first time in life. Scary in the beginning but pretty soon it'll be a routine.
@knowledgeispowerfful You're right-- the second mode of a major scale is Dorian. So, in C major, D is the Dorian mode. in E major, F# is the Dorian mode etc. The thing is, if you know the major scale, you already know all the standard modes. Just play the major scale from any pitch other than the key/tonic/I pitch. Additionally, *every* scale has modes, they're just another way to look at scales you already know. Not enough space for me to answer fully, I'm going to put a post up on this soon.
Absolutely. I'll post a lesson about that as well.
I did not analyze it, but I assume that the 4th and 5th are played from the notes of the Ab and E triads
Ahhhh...pure freedom.
can you use these techniques in minor vamps as well?
I would also be interested in this! Any input would be much appreciated. Thanks
nice, thanks! who doesn't love 4ths and 5ths? :-)
Awesome
Please see my blog for an explanation of the music theory. I have a whole article about this. The link is in the About section of this page under the video.
realy nice video
Nice!
you deserve a thumb up just for the title
In the first example I'm playing Ab and E major TRIADS only, not the major scales. You could use the scales but that'd be a very different sound. For the 4ths and 5ths I'm not using any particular scale at all, I'm just utilizing the intervals of 4ths and 5ths and moving them around cromatically on the neck -- except when I move to the inside section, I'm playing 4th and 5ths shapes from the C major scale. See my blog post for more details on this.
That backing track is like something you'd hear on Golden Eye 64
Pat Metheny on electric guitar ^^ I love this video lesson
How do apply 4ths and 5ths when playing outside?
@knowledgeispowerfful To answer your first question-- yes. I just put a post up on my site about modes, check it out for a more full answer than what I gave below. As far as playing outside before playing inside, I would encourage you to play what sounds good to you. Outside and inside are just words used to characterize sounds. It's the sounds that matter. My guess is you're responding to some of the tension created by outside playing. I would definitely encourage you to explore that.
What does Scofield do when he builds tension playing live with MMW
I'm not an expert at all Sco's approach to this kind of thing but I'm a fan enough of his playing to know that firstly, he is an extremely talented outside player and secondly, I do know he uses the Diminished scale quite a bit as a jumping off point to more outside sounds. I'm sure there's quite a bit more going on there but that's my two cents.
+Sean Driscoll Thnks!
What songs go only in C?
E Ab and C Are triads of augmented scale in pratics
What kind of guitar is that?
It's a Fender Strat that's been hotrodded a bit -- it's got DiMarzio Virtual Vintage pickups in it and when you pull the bottom tone control, you activate the neck pickup and the bridge pickup at the same time.
@LostMuffin03 You certainly could do that but you wouldn't get the same relationship to the home key (C min) as you do in my example. It's not a perfectly translatable approach, I was just showing a few of many, many different approaches to starting to learn to play outside.
When I play out over minor sounds, I tend to use more of the intervallic ideas I demonstrated. That's just me, again, go nuts and do what sounds good to you.
@knowledgeispowerfful In a nutshell, outside playing is purposely playing notes that are not in the key of the song you are playing on. A mode is just a scale with a different note emphasized as the tonic or I chord. In a C major scale, the tonic or I chord is C major. A *mode* of C major is to treat one of the other notes from the scale as I, like D for instance. Video is coming on this. It's much simpler than it sounds. Maybe I'll throw a quick post up on the site to just break it down first.
Is this example at 2:30 modal jazz?
It's not. For a great example of modal jazz, listen to Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" record. Beautiful songs and playing by some of the best.
@@SeanDriscollSoMuchSound Thanks for responding. I have listened to some. I do quite like the famous 'So What'. The reason I asked is that you seem to be playing over a static chord and varying to what you are playing over it. The Ab and E scales over C sound fab to me as tension BTW. I loved that. I just wondered if this was considered modal.
Great
@mikedoveguitar Transcribe away. I'm going to post a follow-up to this video as I seemed to get the most amount of interest out of that intervalic playing. I'll post some examples of exercises to get that kind of thing under your fingers. With that said, it's just a technique, ulitmately it's your phrasing and how you resolve things that makes those kinds of lines work or just end up being a bunch of random notes.
Best comment.
Wicked.