While upscaling 1080 content may not make much difference, if you are dealing with content like digitized videotapes or retro games or other things that is less than 1080p it is VERY relevant. Especially if it's 480p or 576p as youtube will resize anything at those resolutions to 640x480 and 25/29.97/30 fps and horrible bitrates. So it's vital to upscale with an appropriate method (what to use depends on the content of course) that to at least 1080p to preserve the content properly, and deinterlace or frame double or process accordingly (how again depends on content) to preserve the full framerate. I've seen way to much retro game and digitized videpape content on yt that's ended up at 640x480, 25/29.97 fps with horrible quality
I just record and render my gameplay as 1440p 60fps AV1. In certain games I use auto best settings in davinici resolve, and in others I tweak the bitrate myself using auto best as the control and stepping it up from there and comparing screenshots and rendered gameplay clips to see what looks the best with the lowest file size. My upload speed is quite low (20 megabits) and I cannot get any other internet where I live. So keeping files small and quality high is a priority. It is however very unfortunate that youtube will degrade videos overtime, making it frustrating to seek high quality when its just going to get destroyed later on. I suppose this is why audio quality is the best thing to focus on. Your videos have been imperative to my setups and I cant thank you enough for your hard work! I just ordered a Rode nt1 5th gen to test out the 32bit floating point feature, since I tend to have a wide range in my commentary, from almost mumbling to shouting! Unfortunately I suffer from some health issues that makes keeping high energy when recording difficult so I have to figure out other ways to circumvent that issue. Im hoping with 32bit floating point audio I can stop worrying about gain and find other ways to improve my audio quality. I am in a decently treated room and I can always improve it if needed. I love how low noise the rode nt1 5th gen is and it is so clear! I have yet to receive it and test it out in my setup but it has so many uses so I am sure I will keep it around, if not it has good resell value.
One thing I really wish they would fix would be HDR uploads over an hour long. They just simply don't transcode to HDR (but they ingest it, convert it to SDR and use your LUT file at the moment)
Hmm I've been getting really good results for 4K60 HDR (and even surround sound) rendering with DaVinci Resolve with the following specs: - Format: QuickTime - Codec: H.265 - Encoder: Auto (with an RTX 4090) - Encoding Profile: main10 - Audio: AAC That processes in less than a few hours... both in my main channel and in my video game library channel (which is tiny so for sure doesn't get any privileges for processing).
@@EposVox I’ve had a video up on my channel for months and they would never do the HDR encode. I’ve tried the same workflow with shorter runtimes and they get the HDR treatment. Just wish I could get access to an engineer over there so they could debug.
Love this. Absolutely needed to point out that this uploading business is (and pretty much always will be) a constantly changing landscape. Side note, love the lighting in this video, hate the camera (it fought with you the whole time) as I’m sure you did also 😂
what i do is export as pro res 422 and then re encode it in handbrake as av1 nvenc in 4k 60 with 100mbps size, which is pretty lossless but also not insanely oversized
Hi Adam, Thanks for all your efforts and sharing. My first time seeing these formats (newer) ranking together. I am surprised at the quality difference in the chart, probably not very noticeable difference to amateurs like me IRL viewing.
I've slowly come to realize it's not me. TH-cam DID use to look better. 720p used to look great, but with modern compression over TH-cam even 1080p is barely watchable with color banding and blocking galore. It's almost (not quite) enough to make me consider Premium just to watch things at a reasonable bitrate again.
I thought TH-cam was done with keeping the original video files on their end? Correct me, if I'm wrong. Even if I would upload uncompressed to TH-cam, it wouldn't be stored that way for higher quality transcodes later on.
I know they said that, but using Google Takeout I've still been able to grab my original uploads old (2010) and new. And even if they do stop keeping the originals, given how frequently they're completely re-processing videos, they most likely keep some sort of lossless/super high quality mezzanine copy to base the re-encodes from
Odd question. If you were far off-grid on limited solar power with a 8th gen, 20-series Nvidia laptop cutting mostly from DJI and Pixel cameras, and you were bandwidth limited for upload, what would you recommend for a "set and forget" master export format for best quality / lowest filesize for TH-cam and local archival. This is a scientific expedition, so there are a lot of scenic landscapes and screen captures involved in the footage.
upload in 8k preferably with integer scale nearest neighbor upscale to force youtube to encode the video in AV1 for all playback resolutions. looks great
I remember asking you what would be the best intel card not that long ago (don't quote me on when, memory issues) but after doing some encoding test with my rtx 3080 I decided, the quality that I'm getting with nvenc hevc VBR 45-65k is perfectly fine for 1440p@60 (I play at 120fps) (2 pc setup with obs-ndi) and I've been extremely happy, I picked up a gtx 3060 12G and moved on from the gtx 1080 that I used for streaming, I'm able to do 6h streams (record and stream at the same time and output around 100-110gb and it's been really good quality wise, this with P6, two pass quartter res and psycho visual tunning. I decided that it's best that I get something reliable and eventually in the future AV1 will catch up might pick arc or simply go 40 series. hevc is perfectly fine for most of the people and and it's really fast to encode. I've been using it for a month with this setup and I can't really complain so it was really nice to see this video comparission x)
may be a bit unrelated but I create longer gameplay videos and the exporting takes a long time out of premiere and I tend to just upload at native 1080p since 1440p/4k exporting takes even longer since the videos are longer with effects, etc. Any ideas on cutting down exporting time and upload quality? Maybe try h265 at 1440p or?
I uploaded a video in 3200x1800 and the "1440p" setting on desktop would show the 3200x1800 TH-cam encode. But it would be 2560x1440 everywhere else. 1:46
Uploading at 1440p or higher is recommended for the *higher bitrates* 1440p/4K gets over 1080p, yes. As discussed in the video. VP9 is mostly irrelevant, as 1080p still doesn't look great even when you get VP9 transcodes.
Consistency test: include the same footage in every video you upload(maybe like a 5 second clip) and then after some time check how the quality of that differs.
Could the hevc native vs nvidia bug be caused by resolve just using a lower bitrate even when set to "best" ? i wonder if manually picking a similar bitrate to what resolve picks for hevc native would change this?
By now, every time when i uploaded dnxhr to youtube i have gotten a noticeably worse video quality compared to hevc. I never measured it via vamf but i could see rhat something was wrong with more artefacts etc. Not sure if rhis has changed. I stopped uploading dnxhr and switched to hevc completely
Hi, my video is very choppy on premiere pro - i record with nvenc obs. You had a solution for an old version of obs, is there anything you recommend? Thanks.
If you are a gaming channel and your hardware or Internet can't handle 8K, then you can always upload 1440p HDR. Because the benefit of upload the video in HDR, is that TH-cam enable 480-144p 60fps.
Ok but if you aren’t playing in HDR, you can’t. And the workflow for editing HDR is a nightmare. And there’s very little benefit to 60fps at those lower resolutions
This video seems already outdated. AV1 footage has the best quality for TH-cam uploads, plus you get extra encoding servers for av1 so the processing is even quicker.
Not outdated, AV1 was included in my samples here and my expanded testing given I've been uploading AV1 videos basically monthly for a few years now. AV1 does not get any faster processing than H264/HEVC sources, often slower. The fancy "encoding servers" are for *encoding* AV1 transcodes, they don't speed up AV1 decode
Uploading a 1080p video in 1440p or 2160p only helps with forcing TH-cam to produce a VP9 encode. -Once they eventually encode your 1080p source in VP9, your efforts in upscaling will be completely useless.- From basic testing, "low quality 1080p" and "high quality 1080p" is just TH-cam showing you their H264 encode and their VP9 encode. -That's it.- If you want a VP9 to happen less than a couple hours after uploading, then upscale before uploading.
This is not true. The upscaling advantages come from 1440p and 4k getting exponentially higher bitrates on transcode and thus looking better to everyone. All of my 1080/1440 transcodes were done with VP9 copies only, but there are plenty of instances where VP9 looks identical or even worse to the AVC copies, as it’s used by TH-cam as a bandwidth saver, not explicitly a quality improvement. The whole point of recommending everyone upscale to 1440p/4k is so viewers have those FAR higher quality options to choose from, as nothing TH-cam ever produces in 1080p compares to the transcodes they give 1440p/4k
When I right click the video player and click "stats for nerds" it should just link to this video
Hahahaha
@@EposVoxwhich graphics card is good for video editing 4060 or 6750 GRE....???
@@kindhuman4198 depends on the software you are using, find out if radeon or nvidia are better for the software you are using
While upscaling 1080 content may not make much difference, if you are dealing with content like digitized videotapes or retro games or other things that is less than 1080p it is VERY relevant. Especially if it's 480p or 576p as youtube will resize anything at those resolutions to 640x480 and 25/29.97/30 fps and horrible bitrates. So it's vital to upscale with an appropriate method (what to use depends on the content of course) that to at least 1080p to preserve the content properly, and deinterlace or frame double or process accordingly (how again depends on content) to preserve the full framerate. I've seen way to much retro game and digitized videpape content on yt that's ended up at 640x480, 25/29.97 fps with horrible quality
LOOK AT THIS GRAPH
I love graphs, but in all seriousness thanks for all the work for this
you mean loooukkkk at this GRAPPPHHHHHHHHH
I just record and render my gameplay as 1440p 60fps AV1. In certain games I use auto best settings in davinici resolve, and in others I tweak the bitrate myself using auto best as the control and stepping it up from there and comparing screenshots and rendered gameplay clips to see what looks the best with the lowest file size. My upload speed is quite low (20 megabits) and I cannot get any other internet where I live. So keeping files small and quality high is a priority. It is however very unfortunate that youtube will degrade videos overtime, making it frustrating to seek high quality when its just going to get destroyed later on. I suppose this is why audio quality is the best thing to focus on. Your videos have been imperative to my setups and I cant thank you enough for your hard work! I just ordered a Rode nt1 5th gen to test out the 32bit floating point feature, since I tend to have a wide range in my commentary, from almost mumbling to shouting! Unfortunately I suffer from some health issues that makes keeping high energy when recording difficult so I have to figure out other ways to circumvent that issue. Im hoping with 32bit floating point audio I can stop worrying about gain and find other ways to improve my audio quality. I am in a decently treated room and I can always improve it if needed. I love how low noise the rode nt1 5th gen is and it is so clear! I have yet to receive it and test it out in my setup but it has so many uses so I am sure I will keep it around, if not it has good resell value.
Love your lighting today. It's amazing.
Thank you!!
I read the thumbnail as "Duality Hack", so I assumed this was going to help do something about the two wolves inside me.
Oh! _QUALITY_ hack! My dumb butt read the thumbnail as "Duality hack" lmao.
I push my fingers into my
Eyes
Wow! Great work and testing! Thank you!
One thing I really wish they would fix would be HDR uploads over an hour long. They just simply don't transcode to HDR (but they ingest it, convert it to SDR and use your LUT file at the moment)
Hmm I've been getting really good results for 4K60 HDR (and even surround sound) rendering with DaVinci Resolve with the following specs:
- Format: QuickTime
- Codec: H.265
- Encoder: Auto (with an RTX 4090)
- Encoding Profile: main10
- Audio: AAC
That processes in less than a few hours... both in my main channel and in my video game library channel (which is tiny so for sure doesn't get any privileges for processing).
Yeah HDR works on >1 hr, it just takes forever. Even on my channel it can take DAYS
@@EposVox I’ve had a video up on my channel for months and they would never do the HDR encode. I’ve tried the same workflow with shorter runtimes and they get the HDR treatment. Just wish I could get access to an engineer over there so they could debug.
Invalueable tests! Thanks for your work!
10:20 My brain hit a brick wall trying to read that for 10 seconds, you torture us lol.
Love this. Absolutely needed to point out that this uploading business is (and pretty much always will be) a constantly changing landscape.
Side note, love the lighting in this video, hate the camera (it fought with you the whole time) as I’m sure you did also 😂
Great work. Thank you!
TH-cam need to bring back the "Original" quality option, or a true "Source" mode. Most devices can play basically anything now.
yes but they need to pay for bandwidth and storage. TH-cam can't even afford 4k right now.
Have you done any testing with stream settings recently? I’d be curious to know if there was anything different with it.
I loved the Mr Taxi video as well! Such a catchy song! You're such a nerd like I am xD
what i do is export as pro res 422 and then re encode it in handbrake as av1 nvenc in 4k 60 with 100mbps size, which is pretty lossless but also not insanely oversized
Hi Adam, Thanks for all your efforts and sharing. My first time seeing these formats (newer) ranking together. I am surprised at the quality difference in the chart, probably not very noticeable difference to amateurs like me IRL viewing.
very interesting, thanks for the vid buddy :)
I've slowly come to realize it's not me. TH-cam DID use to look better. 720p used to look great, but with modern compression over TH-cam even 1080p is barely watchable with color banding and blocking galore. It's almost (not quite) enough to make me consider Premium just to watch things at a reasonable bitrate again.
I thought TH-cam was done with keeping the original video files on their end?
Correct me, if I'm wrong.
Even if I would upload uncompressed to TH-cam, it wouldn't be stored that way for higher quality transcodes later on.
I know they said that, but using Google Takeout I've still been able to grab my original uploads old (2010) and new. And even if they do stop keeping the originals, given how frequently they're completely re-processing videos, they most likely keep some sort of lossless/super high quality mezzanine copy to base the re-encodes from
Thanks for asking, I was wondering as well. Good to know that they remain in Takeout for now!
@@EposVox This is very interesting information.
Moar grafs. Thx. Nice testing
Odd question. If you were far off-grid on limited solar power with a 8th gen, 20-series Nvidia laptop cutting mostly from DJI and Pixel cameras, and you were bandwidth limited for upload, what would you recommend for a "set and forget" master export format for best quality / lowest filesize for TH-cam and local archival. This is a scientific expedition, so there are a lot of scenic landscapes and screen captures involved in the footage.
CPU HEVC or AV1 if that weird scenario. Just gotta wait on it
@@EposVox Yeah, that was my sort of arrived-at conclusion after a bit of testing. Can't wait to get something with hardware AV1 enc.
upload in 8k preferably with integer scale nearest neighbor upscale to force youtube to encode the video in AV1 for all playback resolutions. looks great
Integer scale on live action/3D content tends to look horrible, so nahhhh
I remember asking you what would be the best intel card not that long ago (don't quote me on when, memory issues) but after doing some encoding test with my rtx 3080 I decided, the quality that I'm getting with nvenc hevc VBR 45-65k is perfectly fine for 1440p@60 (I play at 120fps) (2 pc setup with obs-ndi) and I've been extremely happy, I picked up a gtx 3060 12G and moved on from the gtx 1080 that I used for streaming, I'm able to do 6h streams (record and stream at the same time and output around 100-110gb and it's been really good quality wise, this with P6, two pass quartter res and psycho visual tunning. I decided that it's best that I get something reliable and eventually in the future AV1 will catch up might pick arc or simply go 40 series. hevc is perfectly fine for most of the people and and it's really fast to encode. I've been using it for a month with this setup and I can't really complain so it was really nice to see this video comparission x)
may be a bit unrelated but I create longer gameplay videos and the exporting takes a long time out of premiere and I tend to just upload at native 1080p since 1440p/4k exporting takes even longer since the videos are longer with effects, etc.
Any ideas on cutting down exporting time and upload quality? Maybe try h265 at 1440p or?
I uploaded a video in 3200x1800 and the "1440p" setting on desktop would show the 3200x1800 TH-cam encode. But it would be 2560x1440 everywhere else. 1:46
Pretty normal
Simple, simple, simple, simple, simple question
Mic used? (lol)
Earthworks Icon Pro
th-cam.com/video/8dg5TILKsCc/w-d-xo.html
anyone have any good reccomandions for exteranal hard drives for a desktop editing PC?
awesome video
@6:37 The camera culprit... Why it's falling.
10:05 So if I record in 1080, it's good to upscale it to 1440 in OBS or Editing Software?
yes
Can you address how TH-cam handles HDR? It seems like it takes ages for them to process HDR.
Can confirm, it does. Lol
Uploading at 1440p instead of 1080p is still required to have YT use the VP09 codec instead of the AVC1 for smaller channels, right?
Uploading at 1440p or higher is recommended for the *higher bitrates* 1440p/4K gets over 1080p, yes. As discussed in the video. VP9 is mostly irrelevant, as 1080p still doesn't look great even when you get VP9 transcodes.
Consistency test: include the same footage in every video you upload(maybe like a 5 second clip) and then after some time check how the quality of that differs.
2:26 I have never seen or heard of DNxHR HQ, HQX - what in the world is that magic you talking about sir?
A nearly lossless mezzanine codec similar to ProRes and Cineform
Could the hevc native vs nvidia bug be caused by resolve just using a lower bitrate even when set to "best" ? i wonder if manually picking a similar bitrate to what resolve picks for hevc native would change this?
Except the "Best" option is VBR for any given subject matter, so I doubt there's a static specific bitrate to target that would make sense universally
@@EposVox hmm so I tried hevc nvenc best, vid was 100 mb, then tried restrict to 80000 bitrate and it was 400mb
By now, every time when i uploaded dnxhr to youtube i have gotten a noticeably worse video quality compared to hevc. I never measured it via vamf but i could see rhat something was wrong with more artefacts etc. Not sure if rhis has changed. I stopped uploading dnxhr and switched to hevc completely
Huh, I’ve not seen that in my testing at all
Hi, my video is very choppy on premiere pro - i record with nvenc obs. You had a solution for an old version of obs, is there anything you recommend? Thanks.
In your encoder settings, set Keyframe interval to 1. That’s all you can really do
Thank you, I'll try that@@EposVox
If you are a gaming channel and your hardware or Internet can't handle 8K, then you can always upload 1440p HDR. Because the benefit of upload the video in HDR, is that TH-cam enable 480-144p 60fps.
Ok but if you aren’t playing in HDR, you can’t. And the workflow for editing HDR is a nightmare. And there’s very little benefit to 60fps at those lower resolutions
@@EposVox 480p 60fps is just ew, there is no benefit to do it, not only that many people that actually uses data plans would suffer hahahah
right@@logk
what even is lossless hevc
sooo x265 instead AV1 :hmm:
Absolute W
W
the goat strikes again
What about lossless x264?
Not an option in most video editors
5:26 best part 😂
This video seems already outdated. AV1 footage has the best quality for TH-cam uploads, plus you get extra encoding servers for av1 so the processing is even quicker.
Not outdated, AV1 was included in my samples here and my expanded testing given I've been uploading AV1 videos basically monthly for a few years now. AV1 does not get any faster processing than H264/HEVC sources, often slower. The fancy "encoding servers" are for *encoding* AV1 transcodes, they don't speed up AV1 decode
Uploading a 1080p video in 1440p or 2160p only helps with forcing TH-cam to produce a VP9 encode. -Once they eventually encode your 1080p source in VP9, your efforts in upscaling will be completely useless.-
From basic testing, "low quality 1080p" and "high quality 1080p" is just TH-cam showing you their H264 encode and their VP9 encode. -That's it.- If you want a VP9 to happen less than a couple hours after uploading, then upscale before uploading.
This is not true. The upscaling advantages come from 1440p and 4k getting exponentially higher bitrates on transcode and thus looking better to everyone.
All of my 1080/1440 transcodes were done with VP9 copies only, but there are plenty of instances where VP9 looks identical or even worse to the AVC copies, as it’s used by TH-cam as a bandwidth saver, not explicitly a quality improvement.
The whole point of recommending everyone upscale to 1440p/4k is so viewers have those FAR higher quality options to choose from, as nothing TH-cam ever produces in 1080p compares to the transcodes they give 1440p/4k
@@EposVox Do you know how much 4K helps over 1440p with 1080p sources?
@@muizzsiddique - a lot. Epos is correct but that is the easiest thing to test. Upload both and watch them side by side after youtube encodes them.
In conclusion: TH-cam is a nightmare black box of nonsense and we can't do anything about it
I like ;your orange CAT 🐈😸
got lurnt
Dislike the grain touch on this video.
You’ll live
please for the sake of god, stop using vmaf
Nah