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It seems to me like it would be a similar situation to the frostbite engine. A fantastic engine for battlefield, but Mass Effect and the Ea Sports games suffered for so long because of being forced the engine for things it wasn't designed for.
For a long while, id's engines were the industry leaders in licensing. Everything used the various Quake engines.
@@RyneLanders Let's not forget Valve's source engine was built from id software's, and everyone loves to talk crap about it.
@@RyneLanders that was so long ago that only boomers remember it, Carmack didn't want to deal with 3rd party developer support
@@Aggrofool "only boomers" I'm a Millennial, child. Spoken like a kid born since the Xbox 1 came out 😂
I'm sorry knowing bit about the past offends you. I'm sure you won't die repeating the worst parts of it 🤣
So was Call of Duty's engine since the first COD, even today cod uses an engine based on id tech
Its a real shame as id Tech engine boasts the industry's top performance-to-fidelity ratio. Doom Eternal has no problem hitting 600FPS on high-end rigs while looking fantastic.
Yeah doom eternal looks pretty rad on consoles
It really depends what it's doing. For barren environments without foliage it's incredible. For anything else? I definitely wouldn't go as far as saying it has the best performance to fidelity ratio.
Considering how bare bones Doom games are that really isn't a surprise. Eternal is almost literally narrow hallways followed by set arena areas to fight in. It is really easy to get performance out of such limited visual requirements.
I cant agree with you guys... Eternal almost hits 600FPS on high-end rigs while looking great.
@@TheGrizz485 - If you're not going to agree with us, please share some examples of the engine being used for more diverse environments with foliage, water, etc while maintaining those performance levels.
0:27
I was disappointed when he didn't say bespoke.
Yeah, he really loves that word. I often think to myself: "FFS just say 'purpose made' or 'custom made'." What is with John's obsession with the word 'besoke'? 😂
@@DeadPixel1105 It's a great word, and it means the same thing.
@@DeadPixel1105It's a self-referencing meme. He says it a lot _because_ he says it a lot. Rich does the same thing with "a mixed bag".
They didn't really give a compelling reason as to why it couldn't be done. Any game engine is optimized for certain specific purposes...that's what defines it as such. The implied argument was that those in control at ID software just aren't interested in revving up that side of their business to make it competitive and that is fine enough because they own those rights. I have no question that with enough inclination one could pivot their operational focus and begin that work but it would be costly and long to startup. I really think another competitor would be useful and that is the impression I get from most fans.
Idtech and the modified Source engine used in Titanfall 2 (one of the most underappreciated FPS ever made) are a must
Not to mention Source is a heavily modified quake engine too Titanfall took Source and heavily modified it further
the TFall2 engine was so good that they didn't want to use it for Jedi series
@@Aggrofool and how did that turn out for them? Unoptimized mess even to this day. The Jedi game is so good that no amount of patches can save it's performance. And this is across all platforms
It’s very cool what Guerrilla Games did with their Decima engine by letting Kojima use it for Death Stranding, it seems to have worked out quite well
Because Death Stranding is an open world game just like Horizon Forbidden West. So Decima was already well suited for Kojima’s requirements.
@@PurushNahiMahaPurush Yea , and if you put a non open world performing engine to make a open world look what happens.
I remember in the early 2000s every other game that came out used the Quake 3 engine
Source Engine 2 has a better chance at becoming a great middleware alternative than today's idTech if Valve allowed it.
Any bit of competition would be welcome. And if it doesn't do all the things UE does, well so what? It still does it's thing extremely well.
It used to be id policy to opensource the previous version of idTech when they moved to a new one, but I guess they stopped doing that after Carmack left. Which is a shame. Sure, the GPL license they'd opensource it under prevented AAA studio adoption, but they were still big for indie developers and modders to use. And assuming some degree of shared codebase and editor workflows, having a pool of people who are familiar with the workings of the open source idTech 5, for instance, would be helpful for id to hire new talent to work with idTech 6.
The biggest issue with bespoke in-house engines is hiring new people, since you have to build in that it's going to be weeks if not months before you actually start getting usable work out of a new hire because they have to learn the engine on the job.
I miss Fox Engine.
This is my thoughts as well. Every engine has it's strengths and weaknesses. You can't just expect one engine to be better at everything than other engines. Some engines are heavily specialized and some are more general
iD used to just open source their engines right up to iD Tech 3.
I'm guessing they don't open source their engines for 2 reasons. Their newer iterations of the engine contain third-party middleware like Bink video, physics libraries like Havok and other stuff. Also, since they were bought by Bethesda in 2009, the guys at id no longer call the shots on their tech.
There are some inner sneakpeak about other reasons: idsoft is a relatively-small team focusing more on game, and doesn't have as much people and time as before for engine@@HugoRBMarques
idTech 4 was the last one to be open sourced, but they had to do a bunch of additional work to strip out third party libraries to open source it. Carmack said they were going to keep that in mind with idTech 5 so they could open it more easily, but then he left to join Oculus and whoever took over just decided not to bother with open sourcing it.
@@HugoRBMarquesMicrosoft owns Havok now. I’m not sure if they even use Bink video in Doom Eternal, all the cutscenes are rendered in engine. VLC can decode Bink video. Literally any GPU made in the last 10 years can natively decode H.264 video, so if you’re creating a brand new game, there is no requirement to use Bink.
Bink is owned by epic games hahaha
Id Tech, as John said, it's very tailored to a specific kind of game. It's fast at doing exactly but only that.
Your average open world action adventure? Your massive action RPG? Any other things than a fast paced single player FPS?
Tough luck.
That's all you know?... OK - id Tech could be used for loads of games.
So what you're saying is, it's the perfect engine for a game like Animal Crossing New Horizons?
Id tech had a history of people heavily modifying it to meet their needs. They can possibly open it up by making it modular and support mods. Also there has to be more than two engines in the industry. It can't just be unreal and unity, or else people will get screwed.
Ue 5 isnt made for open world. Nothing would be able to run it.
@@ibrohiemThere's the CryEngine as well. But no one uses that because it's not suited for anything besides FPS games. If ID tried licensing out their engine it would have the same issues
Alex spitting facts at the end
This engine is the best engine I have experienced on my pc. Perfect 60 fps.
Ue5 is made to do everything except run well 🤣
I think what's interesting when you put engines in perspective to ID software is I heard a rumor a while ago that one of the main reasons in addition to getting the Doom fall out and elder scrolls franchises that Microsoft wanted to purchase. Bethesda is to get a hold of ID's software so that they could provide Tech support basically to some of their own internal studios. Apparently mainly 343 with trying to make Halo video games.
Its really unlikely which is a shame since idTech is legendary and it's performance is unmatched
For years I've been wondering why id Tech Engine isn't popular anymore. Back in the 90s and early 2000s, id Tech was regularly licensed out to other dev studios. Hell, even the Call of Duty franchise got its start this way. But that all dried up and the only people using id Tech Engine is id Software themselves.
1) Carmack didn't want to do 3rd party developer support
2) Bethesda and Zenimax are super litigious and don't want to share
3) Id Tech after 4 became reportedly difficult to work with
Hell yes! Bringing back the old days of Unreal vs id tech would be so awesome to see! I actually PREFER how id tech looks over Unreal.
@@WrathInteractive Mega textures were essentially replaced by virtual texturing in modern idTech 7, so aside from older titles the mega texture argument doesn't really hold any water.
@@WrathInteractive id Software stopped using megatextures. Doom 2016 was the last game to use them. Try to keep up, bud.
Microsoft/xbox need to create a super engine for all their studios.
On the other side, didn't they just got acquired by Microsoft? They could easily get the staff and budget to turn the idTech engines into their first party engine for first person projects that could easily outcompete heavy, generalist and bloated stuff like UE or Unity.
It's up to Microsoft if they wanted to do that or not.
Halo.
What do you guys think about getting DLSS 3 or Path Tracing into Metro SDK?? Figured it’s a dev kit, and there’s a path tracing downloadable, someone make it happen lol
I think idTech licensing in this current era would end up like CryEngine. Licensable for 15+ years and you can almost count on two hands how many games there are on it that aren't made by Crytek
Very true
Here I always thought id Tech was always licensed out. Haha. I need to read up
No obviously not, most game developers have been spoon fed Unreal for the last 10+ years, you’d struggle to find anyone capable of using it effectively.
Anyone else remember when ID engine and Unreal engines were actually good? I do.
Unreal engine was crap for most of its existence, and has only recently gained a few features that make it interesting. id Tech was always (and still is) one of the most optimised game engines, but it has always had pretty limited scope (i.e., it's designed specifically for 3D FPS games taking place in closed spaces, not for open-world RPGs, strategy games, driving sims, flight sims, 2D games, etc.).
Somebody needs to develop an engine for Bethesda because they are obviously incapable. Gamebryo/Creation engine are going to go on forever.
Ue5 is garbage I would prefer companies to use their custom engine like red engine, north light, decima, dunia, cry engine(highly underrated), Unisoft anvil, snowdrop all these engines are far better then ue5 in terms of efficiency and memory management
Most smaller game companies don't have the ability to make their own engine. Most of the ones that do were either making games back when that was the standard or are very large companies with the budget to be able to make their own engine. It's very difficult work. There's a reason why Unity is the most popular engine to use
@@crestofhonor2349 but then why AAA companies moving to inefficient engines like ue5
@@Deathdemon65UE5 isn't inefficient, I don't think you know what you're talking about. For one it's expensive and time consuming to develop and constantly update your engine. Secondly your engine isn't going to be suited for every single task at hand.
Look at EA and Frostbite, despite it's incredible visuals and performance, it sucks for non FPS games. Part of the reason why Anthem was a disaster was because Frostbite was a terrible engine for the game. Many companies will often use a bunch of different engines. Ubisoft for example has Snowdrop, Anvil, and Ubiart Framework. Square Enix uses two in house engines, Crystal Tools and Luminous along side Unreal Engine.
It's all dependent on the project and what you're trying to build. In house engines might be better for some while a commercial engine might be better for other tasks. Big studios will use what they see as suitable for certain tasks
What about recent-open-sourced Dagor Engine（War Thunder)
Whatever engine Forza horizon games runs extremely good. Upcoming Fable 5 is using the same engine.
It has weird face expression tho. Maybe it'll be good for games with giant robots, warship, spaceship, and anything similar. Dunno with animals, humans, humanoids, etc
@@fajaradi1223I'm pretty sure the quality of facial expressions doesn't have strong ties to the engine used.
@@fajaradi1223 Animations aren't even made in engine so that makes no sense. You make animations in 3D software capable of animation like Maya or Blender and then import those animations into an engine and the engine plays them as they were made.
@@mrmunkeewell, yes, but actually no. Modern games use not only "baked" animation, but also procedural ones, inverse kinematics, animation blending. So it actually depends on engine what the peak of animation it can achieve.
As example of engine with good procedural animations I can count Overgrowth game. By the way, it's open-source.
I would like Alex to remind Frostbite engine BF combination 😂😅 updates and live service are slow and the whole launch was a sshhh show because everybody that knew how to work the engine left and the engine proved to be very difficult to learn and thus slowww to work with.
I really do hope that DICE is fixing their Frostbite engine problems before there gets any work done. Otherwise we end up again with a unworkable situation and a frustrated player base
nothing will compete with ue5 in total features but for speed ue is still very much too cpu intensive, it can be a problem even on pc let alone console and that's why many studios and devs still mostly have used their own in house developed stuff tuned to the specific kind of games they make, everywhere and mindseye could be a good test for ue5 and benzies knew what rage could do
bruh how about id tech 5 getting released as Free and Open Source, like carmack himself intended it to be from the start
I'd love this, I'm honestly sick of Unreal Engine
Bespoke engines are a wonderful thing. Unless it’s Bethesda’s. Imagine making an open-word space game that has to load five times just getting in and out of your spaceship. 😐
You can run Doom Eternal on a Steam Deck with ultra preset and 40fps lock.
Anyone else just avoiding UE games on PC lately due to its stutter issues?
But I would like to see more games using id Tech. That could also lead to more streamlined games, rather than another "Sporfoken" or something.
I've always thought ID had the best tech.
The engine would be perfect for an open world omni man game
No, it wouldn't. It would be terrible. It's great for interior corridor and arena styled maps, it was designed to run those environments really well.
idTech 5 was used on semi-open world games like RAGE and it ran like shit, had terrible texture pop-in and textures looked really good from a distance but blurry and pixelated up close. And the lighting had to be pre-baked and static.
Every good engine should be outsourced, given devs more options besides UE.
UE5 is grossly overrated
could halo studios have used id tech instead of ue5?
They should release it as open source like they used to
It's kinda complicated, since they're using many proprietary libraries, such as Umbra (occlusion culling system), Havoc (physics system) etc.
i kind of feel that the unreal engine in itself gotten really blotted. it´s trying to do to much, what devs should that i don´t think many actually, take a engine for example frostbyte, which people say it´s made for fps games, well sure. But aren´t game studios full of programmers? can´t they just modify it to work better in some cases, i guess they do but i believe most just run along with the limitations. Which is also why unreal engine games seems to always be about the same. i am not sure how the deal is but if it´s like it used to be with for example bioshock. the devs modified it for there game, Or is that harder to do then a own engine?
Yes, UE is shit
Sorry, but I have to disagree with all of you. Better to be specified for the game you are making with good optimization rather than doing everything at acceptable level instead of aiming for excellence. Sure, it is much pricier than free tools and requires way more work but the results are far superior for any dedicated team. I fear of countless UE5 clones games in the future with no soul and stylization and by the ones that are already out also garbage optimization. To be honest the less games are using that stutter engine now in version 5 the better for us. Any game made in that thing is a big red flag before each purchase.
Do you remember the original F.E.A.R. game? What a feast for the eyes in the time of release and yet completely tailored for indoors environments. Not to mention the best shooting mechanics and feeling meaning - your action - shooting (from any weapon) had an adequate reaction with super stylized slow mo and horror elements are just an icing on a cake along with great enemie's AI. I just want to play that shit right now instead of countless open world generic garbage with super advanced graphics.
Id Tech 7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> UE5
unpopular opinion: Frostbite. Yes i know it's made by EA. You don't need to remind me. But it's really fast.
Frostbite was also a disaster for Anthem as it wasn't suited for that project, never mind he fact that EA had not taught the devs how to use it for that game too. It's also why Respawn's jedi games use Unreal. Even though it's a disaster on UE4 for both, it would have been even worse for Frostbite
@@crestofhonor2349 Anthem was a disaster for other reasons, like the devs just sitting on their ass for 5 years and not actually creating a plan, dont blame that on the engine.
@@mrmunkee The engine was absolutely one of the issues. Frostbite was not suited for that game and caused plenty of issues during development. Artists had even come out about how little they knew about the engine and how much they had to fight it just to do what they wanted with it. It wasn't the only issue but Frostbite was certainly a big part of it
HALO needs to switch to ID Tech!
I actually think CryEngine would fit Halo more, it has functionality for all the things Halo needs, like large environments, various types of land and air vehicles, plus great visuals. IDTech would be great too but who knows how much work it'd take to get all the features Halo needs that aren't already there.
Please yes. UE5 is garbage.
Id Tech is likely why the character models in the new Indiana Jones game have poor lighting/materials and animations. Like Frostbite and Battlefield, anything not a priority for Doom isn't in the engine.
Right now for big games, we kinda have only 3 option if you don't want to spend money on develloping you engine, UE4&5, unity and Crytek engine
I like the technical aspect of Unity, way less the the leading of the company...... and devs look like share that point of view
Crytek i now mostly unused.....
so only option is UE which pain me a lots, because i don't like the engine..the final result is always a blurry mess and you need to use sharpening tool to get something viewable, all those defered AA are shit
I think you need to get your eyes tested. Of all the complaints , a out UE5 it being blurry us not one of them.
Godot is seeing many improvements after the Unity controversy, and RE/REX the capcom engine will soon be licensed out which is great news
Why do you speak? Is it to keep propagating misinformation intentionally? Is it because you want to sound like you know what you are talking about? Just shut up if you KNOW you have no business speaking.
@@bnbnismGodot tender performance is so awful I wouldn't recommend to use it for anything more than low-poly.
They should try and seperate from bugthesda and microsoft if they want to remain a competent studio 😅
Zenimax acquired id Software fifteen years ago
@@Decretumand they've been ruining them ever since. and it can only get even worse under microsoft
@@MichaelM28 How are they ruining them? They seem to be doing fine, especially when you look at the new Doom games
@@MichaelM28 Then your premise is faulty because it's already too late "to remain a competent studio"
@@jemandetwas1we haven't had a new game from them under microsoft though
Stunning how the experts in the video said "No, that's a bad idea" and we still got people in the comments thinking it would be a good idea
Gaybox series x: 1.5 million units sold in 4 years 🤢🤮
Ps5: 100 million units sold in 4 years!!!!! Superior platforms always win!!!!!
You should probably check yourself into a mental institution
Cool fake attention seeking story kid 😂....
Microsoft's Q2 2024 (fiscal) earnings:
Windows OEM revenue up 11%
Devices revenue down 9%
Gaming revenue up 49%
Xbox content + services revenue up 61%
Xbox hardware revenue up 3%
Source: Tom Warren
Gaming is now Microsoft's third biggest business (behind server, cloud & office products), bigger than Windows. Microsoft made $62 billion in Q2 (fiscal). Gaming contributed $7.11 billion, more than the $5.26 billion from Windows.
Source: the verge