The Problem with Planned Obsolescence
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ส.ค. 2024
- Planned Obsolescence is an issue in our society with goods that could previously last for generations being manufactured instead to last for a few years. It creates a constant cycle of buying and fills our land fills with technological junk. Guitars for the most part do not suffer from this but as our amps and pedals among other things rely more on technology, their life span shortens and planned obsolescence becomes a concern. Chris and Cooper examine how this becomes a problem and what items would most be affected.
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I'm pretty sure my wife is planning on trading me in for a newer model!
Especially if I buy another guitar!!!
I love my acoustics and enjoy them without the "drudgery of pedals and amps."
Great video, I'll stick with my '70 Super Reverb and '82 Les Paul. Still working great 50 and 40 years on respectively.
Yes, going all acoustic w/o pickups.
Amen!
My opinion is; I believe you are both spot on with where things are going. 👍
Great topic guys. I try to keep it as simple as possible with the least reliability on technology involved. Too expensive , too complicated . All you need is talent , a basic instrument, and basic PA system.......period ! That's my opinion and stickin to it. 😃🎸 There's less control over recording gear as you mentioned. Obsolete the day you buy it.
Leo Fender's philosophy about his guitars was that everything on them needed to be easily repairable or replaceable if broken. That way of thinking is very much out of fashion now.
I’m not aware of this happening in the guitar world yet but one thing to watch out for would any products that rely on talking to a manufacturers server to operate (and I mean operate, I’m not talking about software updates)… the example I have is a lot of smart home products. Your new device works great right until the manufacturer stops supporting it and turns the server off or as happened to me, the manufacturer went out of business and I was left with a brick.
Good show gentlemen! Now, remember it’s not just for the Guitar Shed.
Power outages are not the only reason to have some acoustics in the stable!
Planned Obsolescence (OP) has always been part of sales designs and profiteering. Think of a simple thing like toothpaste, it's always reinventing the new, better, improved benefits...it's pure BS sales jargon. There is also another situation called 'Hold Out". This is where the technology that is readily available now, which is purposely left out and saved for the higher priced models and or for later models, which would actually cost no more to put in the lower priced models right now. As a professional photographer this is rampant in camera's, lenses, pp software and photo equipment. As for Taylor, when the Andy Powers take over reinvention came about, which IMHO was purely to try an generate sales in a somewhat saturated dead sea. I now see more "used" V class braced Taylor's for sale than most every other brand. People are not stupid and figured out it really didn't improve things as touted. As for Martin's authentic and modern deluxe models they didn't loose their heritage moving forward to generate sales. The SC Martin's are for a specific live scenario and the neck design is stellar. As you mentioned all this has gotten worst with the digital age and the ability for manufacturers to cripple things with software, subscriptions and hold out specs, has gotten worse....As for acoustic guitars, wood choices are a problem for the future. As we all know Apple is one of the worse, with the cellphones and Macs, not to mention all the other companies further controlling your ability to use older tech. I feel just around the corner is the Ai controllable technology looming on the crest of time. We are already starting to see it bloom in many area's of final manufacturing production where products will be obsolete in a year or two. Hey, Tictok is controlling you right now 😂
🤔 So what about Fender Tone Master Amps? Will they become obsolete one day when you can’t update them? Replace parts? This video that you “filmed” 😳🤣 lays a strong foundation of questions that we need to keep watching for the answers. Thanks guys. 👍❤️
Guitar -> HX Effects -> Orange Crush Pro 60C. That's all I need.
Reliable.
I wouldn't be afraid of buying a digital modeller, if you're a gearhead. If you are a gearhead, you're gonna move on to different amps by then anyway. 10 years is a long time, and I get bored easy.
That's exactly why I don't like acoustic guitars with electronics. The guitar ages well but the electronic will become obsolete in no time.
Not really … I have a 1996 Godin LGX which is full of electronics that still work as good as when I bought it … and Godin still makes and sells the same model. Plus acoustic electronics are usually easy to replace.
Electronics doesn't translate directly into obsolescence. Like tube amps, they've been working for decades and unless you fry the circuit they'll continue to do so. Be careful with anything that has microchips, tho and stay away of anything that needs software to operate, of any kind.
A good example is the Shure MV88 mic to plug into your iPad. I bought one a few years ago and never used it. I recently upgraded my iPad and iOS and decided to finally start recording my guitar and voice. It is not compatible with the the current iOS system and Shure hasn’t made any adapter to make it compatible. It’s for sale…..cheap.😖
By the way, shure responded to my call quickly and I talked with a guy for quite awhile. Excellent service with a knowledgeable tech. Thanks for that Shure.
Phew…. I panicked that there was something worse occurring on the Mustang Micro! Whilst the battery will have a shelf life, modern electronics manage lithium ion batteries so well, especially if you don’t let them go flat, I’m not panicking just yet.
You said it with out saying it- wood and steel guitar has been there 200+ years, “digital technology heavy guitars” go out of date
Dude, I’m still bummed because Adobe bought out Cool Edit and called it Audition. I’m now running Audition, but living in fear that if I ever have to upgrade to Windows 11, I’ll be hosed. And I’ll be watching this space for info on the Mustang batteries, because I bought a Mustang from you guys when they first came out.
John, At all costs, hang on to Windows 10. Retired Microsoft engineers have written that beyond XP Pro, the upgrades have consisted of adding layers over XP so it's more and more difficult for older users to access the system management tools. A couple days ago, my annual Visual Field Test had been (upgraded?) to the Virtual Visual Field Test. Instead of placing your chin and forehead on machine rests, it uses VR goggles with the handheld clicker, and a synthesized voice coaches/prompts to "adjust headset up and down until the green circle is not blurry." The headset was resting on the end of my nose, rather than further up the bridge. The advantage is that the computer (Internet of Things) detects your eye movements away from the focus target and provides correction from the machine. Easier on the assistant running the test, but...
Stoneage??!!! You can be forgiven, Cooper, if you demo an HD 28! Unfortunately, we’re stuck with this obsolescence as long as we want the results these devices give us. I love my Mustang Micro. Great conversation for sure. I’d love to hear it continued on the podcast.
I've been pretty interested in those snark rechargeables, and for a tuner, I'm not worried about keeping one of those beyond 10 years, but this got me concerned about Fenders Acoustasonic, since that has an internal battery. I'm not really in the market for an acoustasonic, but I didnt even think about how those will probably be garbage in the not-so-distant future, which is very concerning
Update: I said this before Cooper mentioned the same thing, lol, so, same thought process
On the Acoustisonic, I would hope that there is a way to service the battery. Especially considering how much they sell for.
There's a slew of problems with batteries that get replaced and thrown away. It's not a perfect solution to the problem of creating junk. Failing rechargable batteries are frustrating, too, but there's just no perfect solution currently.
Cell phones are the most obscene example of this. Every two years, you buy a new one, and they're as much as a good laptop now. Good point, guys.
planned obsolescence holds technological innovation back. Companies focus on making current tech as profitable as possible, instead of putting it towards R&D and innovation. I guess the former is more profitable in some cases, but I respect companies that keep stepping up their tech.
Martin plays with the 16-17 series often. My 2018 000-17 12 fret is totally different from the 000-17 today which. Mine is modeled after a steel string classical. Today's 000-17 is another cowboy shape. Long live Martin. They do continue to create new styles based on old standards.
Great video as always guys
Ever since Line 6 bricked my Guitar Port, I’ve sworn off any digital or virtual products
One obvious conclusion: rechargeable batteries need to be standardized. There should be a range of different capacities and sizes, but as a principle they should be replaceable. It is not just a matter of cost, but of ecology. I've had quite a few devices that I would gladly continue using, but had to scrap because of a dead battery: mp3 players, satnavs, phones, wireless interfaces and so on. It really infuriates me how much we talk about eco-friendliness and how little manufacturers actually do to stop destroying the environment.
Yes, we are a hopeless bunch...always want the next shiny thing. I just turned 69, sat down and cleaned house just leaving the stuff I can't live without. Many guitars, but a boatload of underused effects found new homes.😅 It was actually very liberating.
Same with video games operating system software updates.
And no way to trade or sell your digital download game at all no inventory for Sony or Microsoft or steam.almost full profit.
That happened to my Fender amp (Fender Fuse discontinued) and Katana 50 Mk1 (abandoned by boss after releasing mkII)
Guys, get yourselves organized! They're 5:35 into the vid before they actually start talking about planned obsolescence. They're wasting our time!
Fast forward to 5:35, skip the babble.
The Fender Mustang I amps used Fender's FUSE software to be able to get more sound options on the amp. Fender discontinued support for FUSE, so now you only get what you can from the amp itself. Really bricked the amp in my opinion since it's main selling point was that you could hook it up to a laptop and get a lot more sound options. Wish they would have open sourced the software so it could still be run and updated by the community. But they are selling their new line of Mustangs now with something else.
Fuse required Microsoft Silverlight that was discontinued by Microsoft, so not really Fender’s doing. I actually keep an old Mac Mini with Silverlight and Fuse on it so I can tweak my Super Champ X2.
@@ILuvJazzNJava That explains why it happened, which even that info is not easy to come by. Outside of a workaround like you are doing and have the resources and expertise to do it, the rest of us have a brick. If I wanted to sell it or even give it away to a kid who was just starting out, there is little residual value in it without the software to provide the features which was its main selling point. Better off just buying one of those Guitar Center Gamma cheap amps and avoid the software route all together.
does it become a $120 piece of junk? You pay for the use you get out of it. Battery lifespan is less a planned obsolescence thing, and more of an entropy thing. The battery industry I'm sure colludes to find the best efficiency to profit ratios, but the Mustang thing is just using batteries availalbe to manufacturers. I have never had a battery only device reach end of life. Usually by the time it happens, it's outdated hardware anyway.
Rickenbacker laughs at planned obsolescence. If it was good enough in 1958, it's good enough now!
I think of planned obsolescence every time I see a perfectly good acoustic guitar with a big rectangle cut into the side and a plastic pre-amp stuck in it.
hey why don;t you carry Alvarez guitar? can you do review on their masterworks elite series or yairi
I will be doing an Alvarez/Yairi review/demo soon on my channel.
I own a Masterworks Elite in solid black walnut, and also an FYM66HD Yairi (with that natural aged for 50 years old growth Hondurans Mahogany). I also have a 1970’s Alvarez classical guitar, which I need to reach out to my internet friends to figure out when it was made, because I cannot find ANY information on it.
I can tell you that Alvarez and Yairi are outstanding instruments, and you can’t go wrong with their solid wood offerings.
Peace. 🐰💙🎸🎶✌️
great video
My problem is, the new one is "so much better". So what you're telling me is what I have is crap, what you are going to sell me is crap and it will be replaced with crap. Nobody is listening to Queen saying that recording quality is unacceptable.
If that Fender thing can stream audio to headphones I want one.
It does...it's great...haven't touched my amp in 12 months
They are here to sell stuff.....ding.
I have a Fender ToneMaster Deluxe Reverb which I love but I worry about longevity with this amp. If someday the CPU is inoperable, will Fender be able to replace it and and what cost??? I know I could take a regular tube amp to any knowledgeable tech for repair but that would not be possible for this amp. With that in mind I'll probably sell this amp at some point in the future.
The Gibson robo tuner era were dark times but without those dark times we wouldn’t have the excitement we have today.
a big reason why i have gone to using stock daw plugins and real amps with pedals...
Me looking at my ES2 pickup with suspicion now.
I had all the FireWire stuff as well, until new laptops and computers stopped supporting it. :( It was such a short lived tech.
This is why I haven't bought an Acoustasonic. I actually think they're quite impressive guitars especially for recording but the built-in battery in the American models scares me off as the guitar is useless without it, plus who knows how long Fender will actually be making them for. Wouldn't surprise me if in two years they're discontinued and replaced with a new model using completely different software.
ive spent a lot of "quality" time getting my emu sampler to work over scsi to win10. Just because MS binned scsi/aspi in about 2000ish. And dont get me started on firewire...
Pretty soon we'll have smartguitars that need internet to work and will have to be tossed in the trash every two years, as well...
I AM STAYING ANALOG...
Great classic equipment is always available..
NO NEED OR DESIRE TO GO DIGITAL
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
This video makes me want to sell my Twin Reverb Tone master and just get a regular amp with tubes..🤣
😂
The fender acoustasonics will have this big time. They have batteries built into them. Plus all the sounds are done by software. I hope they work in 10 or 20 years, but who knows?
I'm sticking with my iPad3 out of spite, even though it can't be updated and can't download new apps. Screw Apple.
Now I'm worried about buying a Yamaha TA guitar
The batteries are replaceable. No software needed.
That's different. The mechanism is not operated by software. And... the guitar w/o the TA device sounds amazing already, totally worth it. I own a FG-TA
When are we getting another podcast? It’s been awhile
How does this conversation apply to Willie Nelson’s Martin guitar? Lol
Tonewood amps.
Wasn't it Ford that made it a thing about a hundred years ago?
Yes, and also GE and Whirlpool attempted to perfect the timing of the first part failure to need for full replacement.
It is tempting to point out the irony that Alamo orders FSX5 or FGX5 guitars and does not stock the FS5 or FG5. But Luddite guitars don’t sell, whether the end user ever plugs one in, or not. I have to do some kind of ROI for purchases. Ubiquitous Yamaha keyboards are hard to beat. When it craps out it will get replaced. My YSL-697z got difficult to maintain to gig ready status: It got replaced by a 1960s King 2B trombone that I can depend on. I will probably get Chris or Cooper to order me a FG5. I expect the FG5 to see me out.
So should I just dump my Fender Acoustasonic guitar with rechargeable built-in battery before it’s obsolete and go back to Taylor T5?
Yes, give it me.
This is called "Planned Profits" not Obsolescence
Long live firewire!!! Oh...
“Doctor Doctor what is wrong with me This supermarket life is getting long What is the heart life of a colour TV What is the shelf life of a teenage queen.”
- Roger Waters
Cooper let that beautiful hair down
Unfortunately all true
Windows Operating Systems ! Electric cars (vehicles) Buy old ones prior to computer chips.
My Loudbox mini has just gone on the blink,repair or replace?
Great questions. I would get it checked out. Could be an easy fix.
I bet they could make an EV with solar power that could do 1k range comfortably, they just won’t give us that right now
That makes me wonder. Would withholding superb technology be considered planned obsolescence? I always thought it meant it was designed to break.
I agree with most points, but I can not help to find it funny seeing the argument while you are wearing an Apple Watch and not a mechanical watch that has been tried and true for 200+ years. Just kidding, it is all fun :)
C.F. Martin and Fender have proven that it is about nuanced changes... I bet you sell a lot more Fender and Squire historic homage guitars (e.g. Classic Vibe) than you do the current USA built "standard" , Fender American Professional. So guitar companies just try to toss as many things onto the market as they can, it seems... Taylor is the one exception, they have no real history before 1980 and don't have any household celebrity musicians who were playing their product in the 80s and 90s to have a vintage legacy... The GP body clearly a not to slopes from Martin and Gibson, but it's also its own thing... My point is that Taylor is the one standout and if you look at what they do with marketing and features are either directly or indirectly creating obsolescence... No builder has incentive to keep the resale value of their instruments high. The opposite is true. They just have to make customers think because their product is built in the USA that it will hold great value, which isn't true. It's very specific to supply/demand around specific makes and models. Compared to new pricing, on resale a customer might loose 25% reselling a Taylor 800 and 12% on a Martin D28. That's not the same thing at all.
I would say mac is the biggest culprit of this scheme. What is it 7 years I think before a computer is obsolete and not supported or updatable? Pretty sure it's 7. I'm a victim of this so I can def relate. Not here for bragging but to explain, I had a custom built loaded to the max iMac built back in 2011 for strictly recording music and graphic design, it was just under 4k I was younger and didn't have the knowledge I do now. Although that computer served me very well and could handle whatever I through at it, it's almost useless now, can't use it for much so it's in attic all boxed up in factory box cause idk who would even want it. Now have custom built windows based, non Mac tower and dual 32" screens and can rebuild or modify in future at a fraction of the cost. Basicly can never become totally obsolete. Lesson learned the hard way
Hey Bryan, I’m a Mac guy and typically use mine for 5-7 years before replacement but I completely see your point. My son and I built a custom PC last year. The trouble is that PC components are starting to fall victim to the same plan. A new chip comes out? Guess what, it isn’t compatible with your board. Now you have to buy a new board for a new socket and a new RAM spec and your power supply isn’t up to par unless you planned ahead. -Chris
PC's will suffer the same thing. Every 3-4 years they change socket so if you wanted to update the processor then you have to buy a new board. That new board then probably need new ram etc. At some point the video card is too powerful for the processor you have so its pointless buying it because the cpu will just bottle neck the vid card. The only thing you might not have to change is the case. Eventually the case become obsolete too because the video cards get bigger and wont fit. So yeah, you can update PC components for a few years but how is that any different then replacing a 7 year old mac?
People expecting to buy something and have it last forever just arent being realistic. The 7 year old mac cost you how much? 2k maybe? So it cost you about $285 a year to use that Mac. Thats how you have to look at it. Same with their mustang example. $120. If it lasts 10 years thats 12 bucks a year to use it. Can't expect stuff to last forever.
@@AlamoMusic yes I agree on some of that, but like I said upgrading parts is still a small fraction of the cost of anything Mac. I used to love Mac don't get me wrong. And when the time comes I'll just upgrade what's needed but I'll never have to spend thousands again and always have a powerhouse of a computer. Maybe I'm lucky I have multiple friends in the computer world who always tried to talk me out of getting Macs years ago. Im not a builder but I know what I need,and it's not another 4k computer that's only going to be good for 7 years
@@sols.2525 nope, sorry you're only rite on some of your claim, and my Mac was about 4k so big difference, I can get the parts for the build I have now for so much cheaper, and you can't even rebuild newer macs so.... what's the debate here? Sorry you're stuck in Mac land. I'm happy with the change and the future of it. If you disagree, I'm sorry if I offended you
@@HVACRTECH-83 I do disagree. Im not stuck in Mac land. I have both a Mac and I build my own PCs. They just changed to the new sockets this year so you are good for about 4 more until you need a rebuild again. If you paid 4k for a Mac 7 years ago then I think you paid for more than you actually needed but thats not my business. You didnt hurt my feelings. I'm just offering up my knowledge of using computers since commodore 64 36 years ago and building them not long after
Stay back from the bleeding edge
The title of this video is a bit strange. Like, is there anyone who doesn't understand the problem with planned obsolescence?
Planned obsolescence has an interesting origin. Light bulb manufacturers were at one point making light bulbs that were too good. They would last for years and years without burning out. This limited sales of new light bulbs. In order to boost their sales, they began working on light bulb designs and materials that would limit the life of a bulb. This was done in a collusive manner internationally, and they had ways of disciplining manufacturers that didn't fall in line.
Whats with the hat GOOBER????
Sales Display Model...
This is like with my socks.
Peavey xm4 lasted years,never had a problem
Printed circuits in preamps. Micro pedals. Thank you no.
There’s no excuse for this. I would pay more money for quality so I would like to know if we talk planned disintegration at a lower price .
And then there is the usage of raw material . Greed is what it normally is called . But planned obsolescence sounds less bad
I will not buy electric guitars! I am 77 yrs old and have been playing guitars since I was 17. Acoustic guitars PLAY!!
Lolol OS updates.. that's what you get for using Apple products. How long has Windows 10 been out and everything works on it?
Affects Windows too, quit often. I simple security update can brick a program or plug-in. - Chris
Nope... Just a guitar, 2 pedals you like and an amp. If that's to much, just go acoustic and sing you lungs out.
If Microsoft built guitars 😂
Your playing will slow to 2 bars per hour whilst your guitar checks, downloads and installs some 'bug' fixes, 'productivity improvements' (removing features) and re-booting your guitar as a Chibson 😂
Your guitar has experienced an error and will be shutdown. Please contact your systems administrator for assistance.
Standby for update.....
Middle of guitar solo … your guitar will restart in 5 seconds to install critical updates 😂
It’s your turn for a solo in front of 50000 people and the blue death screen 🟦 appears…
You keep mentioning the podcast, but you haven’t had a new one since Oct 2022. What gives?
Consumers need to fight back. DO NOT BUY ANYTHING WITH A RECHARGEABLE BUILT-IN BATTERY.
If you buy something that takes regular batteries, you can buy those & recharge them 'till they fail, then replace the batteries with new.
FIGHT BACK. Refuse to buy built-in rechargeable-equipped devices. If we stop buying them they'll quit selling them.
Thank goodness I can still get batteries for my Pocket Pod, which still works great after 20 years.
Andy, I got some bad news for you. You basically do not own anything you bought. You pay taxes on your car, you pay taxes on your house etc. etc. You pay taxes on things you bought and paid taxes at the time of purchase. Should you make any profit by reselling your house, you pay taxes on capital gain (at least in Europe). Should your son inherit a house or money at the time of your death, your son will pay taxes on it. In Europe they even check if parents towards the end of their life made large donations to their heirs and they get taxed too. Considering everything is doomed to become absolete, you are actually renting stuff until becomes useless, because it breaks or you can´t longer use with the rest of the eco-system, being that the new DAW, the new oeprting system, etc. Sorry for being cinic. However, as I suffer from GAS, and despite knowing all the above, I will probably buy some new piece of gear soon. That´s our curse as musicians.
I'll take the non 'improved' hd28 every time over Trump's yellow hairdyed 'new' one.
I cannot believe you two are sitting there trying to justify this crap. Planned obsolesence?? What about...if it ain't broke don't fix it?. To put it bluntly...it is just plain Gouging musicians...many of which can't afford to buy stuff that is made to break, be superseded, or faddish. Sad guys...you lost me.
yeah I'm with ya. I get why companies do it, but I wouldn't defend it.
It didn't seem to me like they were defending it. More making people aware of it.
@@CurrieNerd yep. Aware you are systematically being set up to be ripped off. Not by Alamo, but by the real thieves the manufacturers. Just sad.
Welcome to capitalism….show some balls and call it out
Can't help feeling a little cynical as you guys are pedlars of all this stuff.
Has your computer ever failed ? It was designed to do just that ! Why then do we rely on them for so many things including our lives, flying planes driving vehicles etc ?