@@niftymoth723 Search for Fior di Battaglia (MS Ludwig XV 13) or Flos Duellatorum (Pisani Dossi MS). Both are available to see on a website called Wiktenauer.
Here's how I know HEMA works without having to risk my life in a street fight. Even during WW1, the Italian military used Fiore's manuals on dagger fighting to train soldiers for knife exchanges. During a war in which there were trench raids. It's no guarantee, but it's safe to say a person can make HEMA work.
Grappling is grappling and human anatomy is human anatomy. There's only so many ways how to "do a thing" and no matter where they live on this planet, people will arrive to similar conclusions. What makes things different are rule sets and context. Good video.
Exactly! Same conclusion I came to after this. All of these throwing/grappling martial arts have huge overlap because of exactly what you pointed out... at the end of the day, there's only so many ways to actually throw somebody, just from a structural/mechanical perspective. Thanks for watching!
I saw a video of an old king fu master that opened my eyes, he was demonstrating all these different Kata that looked like flowery strikes, but in reality where grappling techniques, similar to an mma fighters overhand right actually being the entry for takedown .
I credit a lot of my BJJ standup (I'm a Blue Belt) to HEMA and training with DEMAS. Awesome seeing my two favorite Martial Arts communities interacting.
Face pushing helps, and I did learn that when I trained at DEMAS. But I mostly do 15th century Ringen. DEMAS has a really interesting system though. Especially their "grappling tree" concept.@@dansmithbyu1784
I'm a medieval martial arts practitioner and I'm very glad you got to have this experience. One thing that I think a lot, if not most, modern martial arts neglect to go over is how dangerous the ground can be the moment a weapon is involved or could be involved. In my opinion this is why most grappling training developed in preindustrial societies considered getting dropped to the ground on your back to be the end of the match. You might not die if it happened in a real fight.... but there was a very good chance you would. Also if you're training martial arts as part of a unit, you are useless (and very likely dead or disabled) if you loose your feet. Period techniques also emphasize controlling movement, shoving or avoiding being shoved, for the exact same reason
This is the origin of why Judo, originally Jujitsu, emphasized throwing as it was unarmed samurai combat. If you could put an armored opponent to the ground they were much more vulnerable.
@@rocketsjudoka Absolutely! This is also the origin of Sumo... Samurai needed ways of trading for battle without murdering each other so they would practice standing their ground, forcing their opponent out or to the ground. I know less of the history but think about Grecco/Roman Wrestling from the Mediterranean, Bok from Mongolia, Senegalese wrestling from Senegal... The lost goes on. Essentially if there is a history of a martial culture, they had some version of "you touch the ground you lose" wrestling.
@@capitalistravenjust FYI- Greco Roman wrestling doesn’t actually have anything to do with the classical world. It’s a late 19th century evolution of a French style called flat hand wrestling. By all accounts, what Greeks and Romans did probably looked something like freestyle wrestling with submissions involved. Not necessarily first to fall, but first to touch their back to dirt if the distinction makes sense.
classy sparring session. I was worried the energy or ego would be too high especially since it's standup wrestling with someone you've never sparred with before and you're filming it.
I like the difference in parameters: priority on control and distance, even on the take down. It's all very sensible when you consider what the goals are.
It is so nice that you experienced HEMA this way, in a friendly and safe minded environment. I've been practicing for 3 years now, I was lucky enough to find a group of like minded fellow enthusiasts, and we've expanded our research as much as possible. We all come from different backgrounds too, some have Jiu-Jitsu, Karate, Kung Fu, Boxing and Kenpo as a basis, while others had never practiced a martial art before. It's so cool to share what you've learned with others, and also learn from them too. We're all students seeking to perfect ourselves and our own style out there. Congratulations for trying new stuff with fresh eyes and a respectful aproach! Blessings in your martial art journey.
This is fabulous! As a Judoka and longtime HEMA practitioner, it's great to see other HEMA clubs grappling. There's been a big push to eliminate grappling from HEMA training and tournaments entirely, which I vehemently oppose. Of course, other HEMA clubs can do as they like, but in my club it's breakfalls and grappling in almost every class as well as sword work because "all fencing comes from wrestling" -Sigmund Ringeck, 15th Century fencing master.
Yup saw polearm video depicting techniques almost all of them attack the balance of the opponent. First thought was that no one must have died standing only to realize they didn't show them because everyone knew how to strike instinctively but the bind is where mastery shows.
Medieval grappling is European Jujutsu. The Samurai were literally Knights. It stands to reason that knights around the world would develop similar methods of combat.
I’d argue that catch wrestling has more concrete ties to the roots of ju-jitsu , ( and pro wrestling but that’s not relevant) than hema. But it would be foolish to think catch wrestling was not influenced by the old masters and just general grappling that developed in Europe up to that point .
This school isn't too far from me and I always wondered about it. Awesome video. Love your attitude and theirs. Plus their willingness to spar a little bit with you.
@@rns7426 It's found in HEMA Manuscripts too as "A joint lock" dating back to the 14th and 15th centuries. It's also documented in Pankration Artwork. It probably had a name 20,000 years ago too. Just call it whatever you wish.
Yeah he was full on capping when he said it was slightly sharper than a table knife. Medieval swords were *sharp* they had to be, they're swords. But you can half sword even those no problem as long as it doesn't start to slip in your hand.
Steve's school is so awesome and he seems like a great guy. I saw a tiktok of his school when we first opened our HEMA school and was instantly inspired. Seeing more of his place and how much fun it looked like you guys had is so good.
This variation is actually Abrazare, Fiore's wrestling techniques (Friulian, a part of modern Italy). That said, Fiore studied with German masters too, so it's pretty likely Ringen and Abrazare have more in common than they have in difference.
Steaphen is a really great guy he's awesome, nice and always willing to teach and point you in the right Direction, if you wanna see some of the other stuff, you should hit up CombatCon next year and have a look at some of the other HEMA schools, fighters and more out there. ^-^
@@joshbeambjj and at least you got to fight your friend, I went hand to hand woth Steaphen in the personal defense track of combatcon. And had some fun training with a green beret that was teaching that at the convention. Its worth looking at.
As an experienced HEMA competitior and BJJ/MMA Amateur I have to say: You and the instructors did a very good job in showing techniques with sword and unarmed. Very nice video.
For the video you played where the fencer threw his opponent to the ground, I actually attend that martial arts school. I watched the video before, but seeing it again made me realize that it was the same place I registered in. It's called Tosetti Institute of MMA and it's located near Mountain View, which is not too far from where the school in this video is.
He was going easy on you because in hema there is also catch wrestling which is alot like Judo and jujutsu when it comes to submission except they call it punishment. They have punishment for the fingers, wrists, ankles, neck, elbows, knees, and legs. There is a catch wrestling coach that is hired by the UFC to teach fighters. Catch wrestling punishments are very brutal even for BJJ standards.
That was a very very fun video. I'm in my early 20's and I love watching MMA regularly, mainly UFC events for the last four or so years, and I have a growing interest in trying out Brazilian jiu-jitsu and/or Muay Thai or just joining an MMA gym one of these days. I also have a life long interest in history and practise HEMA casually since last year. It's awesome seeing these two different worlds collide. Awesome video!
Thank you for your open-mindedness to experience other martial arts and for sharing your experience with other martial arts like HEMA. Mr. Fick shared wise words.....we're all on the same mountain, just taking different paths.
I am so sick of people saying that swords were dull or only as sharp as butter knives. That is 100% bullshit. They were sharp. They were very sharp. Half swording was safe due to how you grip the blade, not because the blade was dull. Swords had to cut through clothing. Often very thick clothing, and a type of woven armor called a gambison. They need to be very sharp to do so. Somebody who's been supposedly studying HEMA since the 80s should know that and stop perpetuating that nonsense.
If you noted he said the knife is only as sharp as a table knife. Personally my table knives, and Steaphens are pretty dam sharp. He was not saying the swords are dull, more that thinking a sword is so sharp it will cut you just by touching it is not correct. You can grip a sharp knife/sword, even incorrectly and not get cut. They cut is in the movement along the blade not slow pressure against the blade.
@@jonathanh4443 You can't grip a sharp sword incorrectly and not get cut. Also the degree of sharpness is more dependent on the geometry. A sword should be so sharp that it cuts you just by touching it, that's why we have techniques about how to half sword properly. If your sword can't cut with pressure against the blade, then your sword isn't sharpened correctly,
He said a kitchen knife and not a butter knife. Also there is no real point in keeping a longsword sharp in this context. You aren't using the blade to kill people in full plate.
Wow man. Great production. Great video! I’m a grappler and Gung Fu person. This was outstanding. We can learn so much from not being so critical of each other.
In Wrestling we call the facing pushing posting and stiff-arming. Both have been outlawed fairly recently in NCAA & High School rules but weren't when I was competing. It is taught in Tomiki Ryu Shodokan Aikido as Shomen Ate and is found in the Judo self-defense kata.
I have been doing HEMA for about 6 months and regularly practice German Longsword and Hungarian Hussar Saber so it was super fun to see HEMA in this video. I'd say that it is very practical in the sense that it builds reflexes, footwork (movement), and having to constantly think ahead to counter a move. All of these things, especially footwork, are beneficial in fight. If the other guy can't get ahold of you, you have a significantly higher chance of winning.
I'm also a fiorist, but there's so much more wrestling outside of Fiore, not really the best HEMA system to dive into if you're looking to learn about HEMA wrestling. Though it's fine for a short intro like this, and the last teacher did a fine job at it.
I really doubt anyone ever did half swording with a flamberge blade, further than the ricasso. Curved two edged blades are not for half swording, for obvious reasons.
I do like his interpretation of that fiore's takedown play. I only really knew it from the dagger section, where the dagger is stuck between the legs for the same effect.
I did a bit of fencing in college, which got me interested in the military saber side of HEMA via Matt Easton's channel. There aren't many HEMA schools near me, but I managed to check out a longsword class one day and was surprised by how much grappling was in it.
My perspective as a 10-year BJJ and 3 year HEMA practitioner: The moveset of medieval German or Italian wreatling as taught in the treatises is MORE practical from a self defense standpoint than modern BJJ due to: -weapon awareness -avoiding bottom positions (although this is dealt with) -most importantly, sudden limb breaks and "nasty" techniques akin to catch wresting -being written by people who actually had killed numerous people in medieval fights (aka "going medieval on that ass") unlike most BJJ black belts today These techniques are for the purpose of self defense in a time when everyone was armed and the average combat ability was higher than now. And the intended audience was other knights. No bullshido allowed. That's why it's kind of ironic that the guy in the video kept asking if this was useful for self defense. Like... it's fucking medieval. Of course they weren't messing with stuff that didn't work! Context is everything. However, from a training standpoint nowadays, paradoxically, removing the unsafe techniques such as sudden arm breaks allows people to spar at a much higher intensity. Judo and BJJ had all those sudden killer techniques, but they were removed to allow for full-power sparring to be safe. Although the medieval techniques thenselves can be more devastating (actually they were not shown in this video), EDIT: this school doesn't seem to emphasize sparring to the same degree that your typical BJJ school does. So the stress testing is not there. Thus, I would put my money on the sportive practitioners most of the time. Of course I'm biased, but ideally a foundation of sport combat with plenty of hard sparring and then an overlay of the killer battlefield techniques which you can't necessarily train at full speed would prepare you very well for the street. Final thought: BJJ gets flack for guard pulling and rightly so, but it's not like BJJ practitioners would to that in a street fight. At least I hope not for their sake.
We do spar here at DEMAS. This class night was all practice, we didn't have any sparing this time. We usually spar on Friday nights. We have done some of these (minus the gross bodily harm) at speed with equipment on.
@@swordfightingschoolI really don't know what video this guy watched. The sparring that is visible in this video alone is clearly indicative of a very healthy sparring culture. Yes it wasn't at some kind of high intensity, but it was super constructive. If you want to spar a lot you have to go easy on each other without being too soft. That's the only way to get the repetitions in to develop the skills. There is plenty of opportunity to develop the necessary strength in the gym and if you go too hard you just injure yourself or others. I have experience with judo, jiu jitsu (both sharing the easy going randori sparring format), boxing and HEMA. Relaxed, focused and constructive sparring work is what I'm looking for when joining a gym. And your place passed that test with flying colors. Your school is an amazing representative of HEMA. Better than most, especially in wrestling.
That is actually a very thoughtful and well written little text. In my opinion (which is based on the dürer Fechtbuch, which I was asked to give a workshop on once), there are three kinds of techniques in the books. 1.) Marketing BS that will not work except against the most blundering of opponents. 2.) Stuff that is so dangerous that it can't really be trained. (and which is so aggressive that I would loathe having to use it against anyone) 3.) Trainable Stuff which works very well, and is very similar to the jujutsu I learned 30 ago. (in a very good school, but before all this brazilian stuff really reached europe) I absolutely agree that I would bet on a person who trains the trainable safe stuff full throttle against someone who cannot ever use his techniques on a partner in fear of ripping a tendon off.
@@swordfightingschool I stand corrected. And that is great to hear. It's rare enough that I come across legit medieval wrestlig schools, so to find one that incorporates regular sparring is truly special. I'm sure you'd agree that lamentably it is not the standard to find one that emphasizes sparring to anywhere near the degree that BJJ does. (Paradoxically, we are a "young" community) And from watching the footage, your man proved himself more than effective against a serious BJJ purple belt, which is a very high credential in my opinion. I think even a BJJ blue belt could be said to be grappling expert. I would love to have a crew dedicated to sparring medieval grappling as much as they are dedicated to sword sparring. Something to work on! You're doing amazing work.I hope fate can take me to your school some day! EDIT: I re-read my original post and saw that I wrote "doesnt emphasize sparring at all" which I can see was completely wrong. Obviously wrong, since you sparred in the video and did well! I changed my post to remove that and replace it with "to the same degree as BJJ". Of course what makes it into the edit of a video can be misleading.
@@FlorisGerber Thank you! I couldn't agree more with your breakdown of the different types of techniques. And props for running a Dürer seminar. People (especially online) always want to pigeonhole and rank and discard entire martial arts traditions, but if you go technique by technique most are valid depending on the context. I just picked up Dürer's manual and have been going through it (like "hey I'm the most famous German artist of all time and by the way I wrote this book on knife fighting and arm breaking, would you like to buy it?") TO start getting into the manuals goes way beyond the scope of a TH-cam comment, but most manuals contain a mix of technique "types" because not every situation calls for permanently crippling your opponent. Just like us nowadays, medieval people sometimes wanted to just show off and get attention for their school, or subdue a drunken friend without hurting them, and of course sometimes they needed to cripple a life threatening attacker. Ott Jud is the consummate pragmatist. He wants you to know what works. Unfortunately he didn't bother hiring an artist to draw any pictures. Lekuchner is super comprehensive, and has techniques for all seasons: he shows serious throws, breaks, kills, unarmed defense against swords, but also whimsical techniques to please the crowd, like how to pin a guy with one hand and play a game of backgammon with the other. And everyone's favourite, how to put a guy in a burlap sack. Talhoffer's manuals have barely any text. They're more like a CV, a smattering of the techniques you could learn if you hired him to coach you for your upcoming judicial duel. He's mostly pragmatic, but throws some flashy stuff in there. Dürer strikes me as a superfan and dedicated amateur. A guy with a successful day job who can't help but think about fighting every time he's not at work... (as such, I personally relate to him more than the others!) The problem is when people use a single technique and think it speaks for the whole system, like "BJJ fighters only pull guard and therefore it is only sport and doesn't work in the street" or "Lekuchner is only for putting your friends in burlap sacks". Every technique is an answer to a particular question. With experience (and some common sense) comes an eye for what type of question the given technique is answering.
This place is absolutely incredible and the work he has done to put all of the equipment and knowledge together is an enormous service to us all! I would so much want to visit this place one day.
You should come try Sambo at my school Sambo Nation Fort Worth. A student of mine and I just won pan ams so you would be getting the best training there is!
Sharper than a table knife? does he mean butter knife or steak knife? cause one of them is modern misinformation due to finding swords with deteriorating edges, swords meant for display or ceremony and dulled for safety. While the other is true, swords were quite sharp, and historical examples and documentation/descriptions back this up
I come from Viking Age Reenactment (Semi to Full Contact Fighting) and HEMA environments (UK) and currently training BJJ, I have huge respect and appreciation for this video! HEMA is such a big umbrella term for a lot of different martial arts, in our school we did everything from fencing, swordsmanship, dagger-fighting to folk wrestling (catch wrestling, Glíma, grappling techniques), Bartitsu (English cane fighting for the streets with MMA elements), 1870s Pugilism (Boxing), etc. There are so many different types that encompass all historical martial arts and there is a lot of wrestling. You've only touched the tip of the mountain! This is what's ultimately made me want to start BJJ. Would love to see you try different types of folk wrestling :) Great video!
Love seeing HEMA get more coverage! I think it's worth mentioning that most HEMA practitioners do Bloßfechten (unarmored combated with a sword), but there are some schools, like the one you went to, that do harnischfechten (fighting in armor) as their end goal. It's also worth mentioning that many clubs have different approaches to trainning, my club for instance, uses sparring as a critical training tool
Hema was my gateway to judo through Ringen, which is basically what you did fornthe second class. The similarities far outway the differences, especially taking classic judo into account as that allows leg grabs. Modern competition judo is different, but grappling across cultures looks really similar, it's cool
Every martial artist with an open mind learns this fact quickly: the human body only moves certain ways, and breaking it is pretty consistent across all cultures.
There's one part that he gets wrong. Not all blades were well maintained, it's untrue though that they were only slightly sharper than a table knife. THey'd sharpen it most likely similarly to a Katana ~ very sharp. Eventually though, they'd have to sharpen it again. For half swording (Taking the blade in your hand), you'd most likely wear gloves. Now I'm no expert and I wasn't there then, but at least, that's what I got from reliable sources (Scholagladiatoria, antique dealer, HEMA practionner, and archeologist), Skallagrim. It depends on the sword, time, person, etc is most likely the answer. Great video though :D
As for your question, I've only did one semester of HEMA, a bit of classical fencing (lots of similarities, in similar systems, i.e. Rapier, Saber, small sword). I thoroughly loved HEMA, way more than classical fencing. I also did a lot foam fighting, which, again, is not the same but still shares some principles. HEMA is still what I'd go for everytime. Sadly, I live "far" from the nearest school now. I'd love to find a fellow practicionner to spar with and practice. What'S funny is BJJ is what I'll end up doing if I don't find some way to do HEMA. Again, great video!
Thank you for the video, I was thoroughly looking forward to it. In my Ringen class we are working towards using the Glima style ruleset. Which I think youd probably enjoy. The ruleset, to my understanding is, if you can get a throw without going to the ground then great. But odds are someone may take you down with them. At that point you do ground fighting not to necessarily submit the other, but to disengage in a dominant position and escape from your opponent whom youve left on the ground. It was explained to me more of a battlefield scenario where you want to get out of that and up quickly so your buddy can come over and hit the downed guy with his axe.
This is actually similiar to a grappling style we emphasize in my CMA. No clue if opponents have weapons or freinds so staying on the ground can be a bad idea.
great editing and content man. big fan of the respect you showed for their art despite some of it probably not translating to more modernized mma. Cheers from a new subscriber
"The average sword back then easvas sharp as a table knife" Incorrect. This is a myth, as it on the battlefield was a side arm, it was however used for self defense in civilian context, and had to be sharp as it could face anything from clothes to gambesons. So no, here you're lied to. There's however technics on how to "safely" grab your blade. Contact someone like Skallagrím, Metatron, or Matt Easton on this topic. Or even Shad M Brooks.
If accompanied by good pressure testing, HEMA grappling is VERY legit. Medieval European wrestling is where modern “Catch as Catch Can” and “Freestyle” wrestling come from. Also, modern “Greco/Roman” wrestling is in part derived from Medieval wrestling too
It was cool for you to roll super chill with him. Good fun time, no egos and you don't need to prove to us BJJ guys that you'd obviously win in open grappling. Cool dude who trains a lot more than just grappling.
Grappling is grappling. The rule set (or lack of rules) directs your grappling style. Think of how judo changed after changing the rules (taking away leg attacks). Grappling for sport is different from self-defense or combat. Good video. Thanks...
One issue with medieval wrestling such as Fiore's is that it was a pure combative unlike wrestling for sport (which Fiore mentions). So there would be no submissions: if you lock a limb you don't give the opponent the old "Tap or I break it" you just break it immediately. There were also no holds barred - this was developed for war. Fiore specifically has a section on dirty tricks where he covers things such as corrosives or poisons "shown in this book that you would never do. I show you them purely to aid your knowledge." *wink wink* So the more modern rules such as tapping out, wrestling to falls etc. is a more modern addition just to make it possible to practice without maiming each other.
Cool stuff. I get a kick out of seeing genuine surprise at the effectiveness of another discipline's techniques. Nothing substitutes for actual experience, especially when surprises can be fatal. Thanks.
As someone who practices Jiu Jitsu and has trained HEMA (as well as wrestling for four years) I was excited to see this video. Love the content and the humility presented by both sides. Might have to subscribe to this channel. Some martial artists have wondered how HEMA is practical today. It is practical in the sense of a form of exercise, and coordination. Also I have found after training HEMA that I am able to time grappling right with people who attack me with sticks or other objects of the same sort. A HEMA practitioner learns (if they spar) how to maneuver around weapon strikes and knife attacks. This is helpful in real life.
Good video. I'm a Judo sensei in Minnesota and have been teaching some armored combat fighters judo to use in their art. Recently was working with them to adapt some weapon trap techniques from police tactics and Kali to their art. THose look very similar to some of the sword grappling shown in there.
@@MrCmon113 just google them and look at the pictures, you know them. they are the knives you'd usually use at the dinner table and also called butter knives, because you'd usually spread your butter with them.
Gotta say, most people agree with the guy you asked when talking about why they get into hema. It's why longsword and rapier are probably the most popular, but smallsword or rondel dagger is likely rare to find.
One thing from doing fiore wresling, its a good idea to learn sport wrestling to get a base. Fiore to me at least is giving techniques he likes to a person he assumes can already wrestle.
Yes agreed, Fiore assumed (reasonably, given the time he was writing) that whoever was reading his book already had a solid wrestling knowledge, since that was one of the most common sports/games people played at the time. A modern person coming to his work with no prior knowledge will struggle (as I did, lol).
HEMA conceptually is what MMA is to the different fighting styles included in that label. Look for "Abrazar" (which means "To hug" in vulgar latin) if you want to know about a more specific grappling technique straight from the xiii century Europe. The most comprehensive text is: "Flos duellatorum in armis, sine armis, equester et pedester" which literally means "The dueling flow with weapons, without weapons, on horseback and on foot". I read it in Italian, here is common knowledge among HEMA enthusiast, but I am sure you can find an english translation. To be more specific, the technique is known from the xiii century, the book is from the xiv century.
The art of Medieval Unarmed Combat has been in Training Manuel's for hundreds of years used to teach knights and men at arms, which was used in a very real situation where any mistakes were deadly. It was deadly, nasty and used martial arts techniques based on wrestling and strikes, well worth learning, defending against weapons knife, swords is useful now.
You may not realize it, but the stuff you did in this video was not far off from some of the more practical aspects of Aikido / Aiki-Jiujitsu. If you are on the west coast, you should find Bruce Bookman. He made an excellent instructional video on making Aikido more practical. Has good insight into it and understands the weaknesses of the art. I'm sure there are other instructors too but he is a good one that comes to mind. Look up his "Jab to Kotegaeshi" video on Aikido Journal's channel.
My wife (blue belt) and I (white belt) watched this together. She said the gentleman at 16:00 was playing with you. We're going to share this with our group chat, it's criminally under-viewed.
I do Buhurt and we do use the "facepush" against a helmet to bring someone down. So it works even in armour. You did da very good job with the video, and found an awsome school for it.
Samurai use a close combat martial art called kumiuchi against armored soldiers. In this case the samurai uses short katana, wakizashi. Kumiuchi changed to jujutsu and judo. Genpei seisui ki by Sanemitsu Tohei in the 13th century"Concerning one-on-one battles, it was common to cut at each other with a katana after battling using bows and arrows, which was followed by kumiuchi (grappling)." Sumo Torikumidensho by Ryuetsu Morinao KIMURA in 1745. "Still kumiuchi remained an important military art in battles ('six or seven times out of ten times, kumiuchi was done in battle with warriors donning kacchu (armor).") "That's why warriors must practice the sumo wrestling which was done by ancient warriors." The Russo-Japanese War by Thomas Cowen” At some of the forts men fought at close quarters, bayonet to bayonet, and it was once again shown that, though the Russians have the advantage of size and weight, they are no match for the quicker and more skilful Japanese”
This is a great entertaining video, I wished I had known about this school and training when I still lived in San Jose, I would have definitely attended!
It was fun half-swording with you! Glad you enjoyed your time at the sword school!
Thanks for having me! 🙏🙏
I heard that the day I left prison. 😢
what is the manuscript shown at 4:37?
I need this
@@niftymoth723 Search for Fior di Battaglia (MS Ludwig XV 13) or Flos Duellatorum (Pisani Dossi MS). Both are available to see on a website called Wiktenauer.
@@niftymoth723 As shown on the cover, it is the Flower of Battle (Fior di Battaglia) by Fiore de'i Liberi
Here's how I know HEMA works without having to risk my life in a street fight. Even during WW1, the Italian military used Fiore's manuals on dagger fighting to train soldiers for knife exchanges. During a war in which there were trench raids. It's no guarantee, but it's safe to say a person can make HEMA work.
Weapons work, the problem is: they work so much that they can get you in legal trouble. I still own some but this is just how it be. 🧐
But they lost.
@@PointyYT you're thinking of WW2
@@grahamwheeler6104 you're right, my bad.
@@PointyYT Also, knife fighting doesn't decide the course of an entire war. Logistics does.
It took me 2 and a half minutes into the video to realise this wasn’t a sensei Seth video
Hah, same here.
Same here
That's not Sensei Seth?
Lolll I just dropped a collab with him! th-cam.com/video/QQNCzvwYuAY/w-d-xo.html
This was AWESOME!
Hey! Happy to see you here checking out more HEMA content.
HEMA has wrestling
California...the birthplace...oh wait, never mind.
Thank you man!
Did you think he was Sensei Seth at first as well.
Grappling is grappling and human anatomy is human anatomy. There's only so many ways how to "do a thing" and no matter where they live on this planet, people will arrive to similar conclusions. What makes things different are rule sets and context. Good video.
Exactly! Same conclusion I came to after this. All of these throwing/grappling martial arts have huge overlap because of exactly what you pointed out... at the end of the day, there's only so many ways to actually throw somebody, just from a structural/mechanical perspective. Thanks for watching!
I saw a video of an old king fu master that opened my eyes, he was demonstrating all these different Kata that looked like flowery strikes, but in reality where grappling techniques, similar to an mma fighters overhand right actually being the entry for takedown .
“Let me put on my street clothes” still jiu jitsu related 😂
I just changed into my no-gi outfit pretty much
I wear cargo pants and can not only roll in them but use the loops to hold two hands with one.
Danaher always being in a rash-guard has entered the chat.
been playing judo for 22 years (started at 5) i started HEMA 2 years ago and fell in love. thank you for showing off our little corner of the world!
That’s awesome to hear! Glad you enjoyed the video
I credit a lot of my BJJ standup (I'm a Blue Belt) to HEMA and training with DEMAS.
Awesome seeing my two favorite Martial Arts communities interacting.
Oh cool! Love it
Do you use face pushes in standup? I only know of the cross throat post, if that makes sense.
Face pushing helps, and I did learn that when I trained at DEMAS. But I mostly do 15th century Ringen. DEMAS has a really interesting system though. Especially their "grappling tree" concept.@@dansmithbyu1784
It looks like a very useful skill to learn especially for standup, I didn’t do it but it seems pretty similar so I’m sure it helps a lot.
I'm a medieval martial arts practitioner and I'm very glad you got to have this experience. One thing that I think a lot, if not most, modern martial arts neglect to go over is how dangerous the ground can be the moment a weapon is involved or could be involved. In my opinion this is why most grappling training developed in preindustrial societies considered getting dropped to the ground on your back to be the end of the match. You might not die if it happened in a real fight.... but there was a very good chance you would. Also if you're training martial arts as part of a unit, you are useless (and very likely dead or disabled) if you loose your feet. Period techniques also emphasize controlling movement, shoving or avoiding being shoved, for the exact same reason
good point! we definitely don't consider that in sport jiu jitsu where i come from 😂 thanks for watching!
This is the origin of why Judo, originally Jujitsu, emphasized throwing as it was unarmed samurai combat. If you could put an armored opponent to the ground they were much more vulnerable.
@@rocketsjudoka Absolutely! This is also the origin of Sumo... Samurai needed ways of trading for battle without murdering each other so they would practice standing their ground, forcing their opponent out or to the ground. I know less of the history but think about Grecco/Roman Wrestling from the Mediterranean, Bok from Mongolia, Senegalese wrestling from Senegal... The lost goes on. Essentially if there is a history of a martial culture, they had some version of "you touch the ground you lose" wrestling.
@@capitalistravenjust FYI- Greco Roman wrestling doesn’t actually have anything to do with the classical world. It’s a late 19th century evolution of a French style called flat hand wrestling. By all accounts, what Greeks and Romans did probably looked something like freestyle wrestling with submissions involved. Not necessarily first to fall, but first to touch their back to dirt if the distinction makes sense.
classy sparring session. I was worried the energy or ego would be too high especially since it's standup wrestling with someone you've never sparred with before and you're filming it.
I have been friends with Steaphen and DEMAS for many years. He is one of the best in the business, and incredibly kindhearted.
That’s awesome! Yeah he was such a nice guy, it was a pleasure meeting him.
Nice to see HEMA get some love!
I didn't expect woodcutter ned flanders to be an expert HEMA grappler, but damn he's got some clean technique
Glad you had fun. I wish more people in HEMA practiced the grappling portions of our manuscripts. It is a lot of fun!
I've never seen anyone practice the grappling part if the manuscripts. Awesome stuff!
I do it, but I do it in a jiujitsu gym.
I like the difference in parameters: priority on control and distance, even on the take down. It's all very sensible when you consider what the goals are.
It is so nice that you experienced HEMA this way, in a friendly and safe minded environment. I've been practicing for 3 years now, I was lucky enough to find a group of like minded fellow enthusiasts, and we've expanded our research as much as possible. We all come from different backgrounds too, some have Jiu-Jitsu, Karate, Kung Fu, Boxing and Kenpo as a basis, while others had never practiced a martial art before. It's so cool to share what you've learned with others, and also learn from them too. We're all students seeking to perfect ourselves and our own style out there.
Congratulations for trying new stuff with fresh eyes and a respectful aproach! Blessings in your martial art journey.
Awesome to see Fiore, these usually end up looking at the more prevalent German fight books, and it’s great to see the Italian art demonstrated!
This is fabulous! As a Judoka and longtime HEMA practitioner, it's great to see other HEMA clubs grappling. There's been a big push to eliminate grappling from HEMA training and tournaments entirely, which I vehemently oppose. Of course, other HEMA clubs can do as they like, but in my club it's breakfalls and grappling in almost every class as well as sword work because "all fencing comes from wrestling" -Sigmund Ringeck, 15th Century fencing master.
Yup saw polearm video depicting techniques almost all of them attack the balance of the opponent. First thought was that no one must have died standing only to realize they didn't show them because everyone knew how to strike instinctively but the bind is where mastery shows.
You just sold me on it ! HEMA white belt ready for action !
Medieval grappling is European Jujutsu.
The Samurai were literally Knights.
It stands to reason that knights around the world would develop similar methods of combat.
I’d argue that catch wrestling has more concrete ties to the roots of ju-jitsu , ( and pro wrestling but that’s not relevant) than hema. But it would be foolish to think catch wrestling was not influenced by the old masters and just general grappling that developed in Europe up to that point .
I like how you were flowing with him at the end
Yeah it was fun!
I love to see HEMA, and especially Fiore, on the screen! Nice video!!!
Yeah. It was nice.
This school isn't too far from me and I always wondered about it. Awesome video. Love your attitude and theirs. Plus their willingness to spar a little bit with you.
Kimura.
The technique had a name before Masahiko Kimura applied it to Helio.
In Judo it was called Ude Garame, bent arm bar.
Good to know! Thanks for watching
@@rns7426 It's found in HEMA Manuscripts too as "A joint lock" dating back to the 14th and 15th centuries. It's also documented in Pankration Artwork. It probably had a name 20,000 years ago too. Just call it whatever you wish.
In Catch Wrestling it's just known as a double wrist lock.
@@timothyhayes2726 yup!
You can actually half sword with a razor sharp blade without much issue.
Yeah he was full on capping when he said it was slightly sharper than a table knife. Medieval swords were *sharp* they had to be, they're swords. But you can half sword even those no problem as long as it doesn't start to slip in your hand.
Steve's school is so awesome and he seems like a great guy. I saw a tiktok of his school when we first opened our HEMA school and was instantly inspired. Seeing more of his place and how much fun it looked like you guys had is so good.
This is where most of my grappling comes from. Its fast and brutal. Cool to see HEMA get some exposure. This os mostly ringen(medeival war wrestling)
This variation is actually Abrazare, Fiore's wrestling techniques (Friulian, a part of modern Italy). That said, Fiore studied with German masters too, so it's pretty likely Ringen and Abrazare have more in common than they have in difference.
Steaphen is a really great guy he's awesome, nice and always willing to teach and point you in the right Direction, if you wanna see some of the other stuff, you should hit up CombatCon next year and have a look at some of the other HEMA schools, fighters and more out there. ^-^
Steaphen was awesome! Dope, I’ll definitely keep that in mind, thanks
@@joshbeambjj and at least you got to fight your friend, I went hand to hand woth Steaphen in the personal defense track of combatcon. And had some fun training with a green beret that was teaching that at the convention. Its worth looking at.
The kids in the background during grappling class are real scene stealers
As an experienced HEMA competitior and BJJ/MMA Amateur I have to say: You and the instructors did a very good job in showing techniques with sword and unarmed.
Very nice video.
Great to hear, thanks for watching!
For the video you played where the fencer threw his opponent to the ground, I actually attend that martial arts school. I watched the video before, but seeing it again made me realize that it was the same place I registered in.
It's called Tosetti Institute of MMA and it's located near Mountain View, which is not too far from where the school in this video is.
He was going easy on you because in hema there is also catch wrestling which is alot like Judo and jujutsu when it comes to submission except they call it punishment. They have punishment for the fingers, wrists, ankles, neck, elbows, knees, and legs. There is a catch wrestling coach that is hired by the UFC to teach fighters. Catch wrestling punishments are very brutal even for BJJ standards.
That was a very very fun video. I'm in my early 20's and I love watching MMA regularly, mainly UFC events for the last four or so years, and I have a growing interest in trying out Brazilian jiu-jitsu and/or Muay Thai or just joining an MMA gym one of these days. I also have a life long interest in history and practise HEMA casually since last year. It's awesome seeing these two different worlds collide. Awesome video!
Thank you for your open-mindedness to experience other martial arts and for sharing your experience with other martial arts like HEMA. Mr. Fick shared wise words.....we're all on the same mountain, just taking different paths.
I am so sick of people saying that swords were dull or only as sharp as butter knives. That is 100% bullshit. They were sharp. They were very sharp. Half swording was safe due to how you grip the blade, not because the blade was dull.
Swords had to cut through clothing. Often very thick clothing, and a type of woven armor called a gambison. They need to be very sharp to do so.
Somebody who's been supposedly studying HEMA since the 80s should know that and stop perpetuating that nonsense.
California. Typical for Cali residents to get their education from movies and TV.
If you noted he said the knife is only as sharp as a table knife. Personally my table knives, and Steaphens are pretty dam sharp. He was not saying the swords are dull, more that thinking a sword is so sharp it will cut you just by touching it is not correct. You can grip a sharp knife/sword, even incorrectly and not get cut. They cut is in the movement along the blade not slow pressure against the blade.
@@jonathanh4443 table knife is just another way of saying butter knife. The very dull knife used for spreading butter, jams, and jellies.
@@jonathanh4443 You can't grip a sharp sword incorrectly and not get cut. Also the degree of sharpness is more dependent on the geometry. A sword should be so sharp that it cuts you just by touching it, that's why we have techniques about how to half sword properly. If your sword can't cut with pressure against the blade, then your sword isn't sharpened correctly,
He said a kitchen knife and not a butter knife. Also there is no real point in keeping a longsword sharp in this context. You aren't using the blade to kill people in full plate.
Wow man. Great production. Great video! I’m a grappler and Gung Fu person. This was outstanding. We can learn so much from not being so critical of each other.
Excellent content. No ego, just knowledge sharing.
In Wrestling we call the facing pushing posting and stiff-arming. Both have been outlawed fairly recently in NCAA & High School rules but weren't when I was competing. It is taught in Tomiki Ryu Shodokan Aikido as Shomen Ate and is found in the Judo self-defense kata.
You're going on another level of combat here. Weapons & armor is the way to go. 🥋⚔️🛡️
I have been doing HEMA for about 6 months and regularly practice German Longsword and Hungarian Hussar Saber so it was super fun to see HEMA in this video. I'd say that it is very practical in the sense that it builds reflexes, footwork (movement), and having to constantly think ahead to counter a move. All of these things, especially footwork, are beneficial in fight. If the other guy can't get ahold of you, you have a significantly higher chance of winning.
I'm also a fiorist, but there's so much more wrestling outside of Fiore, not really the best HEMA system to dive into if you're looking to learn about HEMA wrestling. Though it's fine for a short intro like this, and the last teacher did a fine job at it.
And guys, we should pinch the blade between the palm and fingers, not hold any edge firmly against our fingers.
We like our fingers remember?
I really doubt anyone ever did half swording with a flamberge blade, further than the ricasso. Curved two edged blades are not for half swording, for obvious reasons.
I do like his interpretation of that fiore's takedown play. I only really knew it from the dagger section, where the dagger is stuck between the legs for the same effect.
@@BernasLL You can't really half sword a flammard blade, that's a lot of the reason that the blade type was created.
I did a bit of fencing in college, which got me interested in the military saber side of HEMA via Matt Easton's channel. There aren't many HEMA schools near me, but I managed to check out a longsword class one day and was surprised by how much grappling was in it.
My perspective as a 10-year BJJ and 3 year HEMA practitioner:
The moveset of medieval German or Italian wreatling as taught in the treatises is MORE practical from a self defense standpoint than modern BJJ due to:
-weapon awareness
-avoiding bottom positions (although this is dealt with)
-most importantly, sudden limb breaks and "nasty" techniques akin to catch wresting
-being written by people who actually had killed numerous people in medieval fights (aka "going medieval on that ass") unlike most BJJ black belts today
These techniques are for the purpose of self defense in a time when everyone was armed and the average combat ability was higher than now. And the intended audience was other knights. No bullshido allowed.
That's why it's kind of ironic that the guy in the video kept asking if this was useful for self defense. Like... it's fucking medieval. Of course they weren't messing with stuff that didn't work! Context is everything.
However, from a training standpoint nowadays, paradoxically, removing the unsafe techniques such as sudden arm breaks allows people to spar at a much higher intensity.
Judo and BJJ had all those sudden killer techniques, but they were removed to allow for full-power sparring to be safe.
Although the medieval techniques thenselves can be more devastating (actually they were not shown in this video), EDIT: this school doesn't seem to emphasize sparring to the same degree that your typical BJJ school does.
So the stress testing is not there. Thus, I would put my money on the sportive practitioners most of the time.
Of course I'm biased, but ideally a foundation of sport combat with plenty of hard sparring and then an overlay of the killer battlefield techniques which you can't necessarily train at full speed would prepare you very well for the street.
Final thought: BJJ gets flack for guard pulling and rightly so, but it's not like BJJ practitioners would to that in a street fight. At least I hope not for their sake.
We do spar here at DEMAS. This class night was all practice, we didn't have any sparing this time. We usually spar on Friday nights. We have done some of these (minus the gross bodily harm) at speed with equipment on.
@@swordfightingschoolI really don't know what video this guy watched.
The sparring that is visible in this video alone is clearly indicative of a very healthy sparring culture. Yes it wasn't at some kind of high intensity, but it was super constructive.
If you want to spar a lot you have to go easy on each other without being too soft. That's the only way to get the repetitions in to develop the skills. There is plenty of opportunity to develop the necessary strength in the gym and if you go too hard you just injure yourself or others.
I have experience with judo, jiu jitsu (both sharing the easy going randori sparring format), boxing and HEMA. Relaxed, focused and constructive sparring work is what I'm looking for when joining a gym. And your place passed that test with flying colors.
Your school is an amazing representative of HEMA. Better than most, especially in wrestling.
That is actually a very thoughtful and well written little text. In my opinion (which is based on the dürer Fechtbuch, which I was asked to give a workshop on once), there are three kinds of techniques in the books.
1.) Marketing BS that will not work except against the most blundering of opponents.
2.) Stuff that is so dangerous that it can't really be trained. (and which is so aggressive that I would loathe having to use it against anyone)
3.) Trainable Stuff which works very well, and is very similar to the jujutsu I learned 30 ago. (in a very good school, but before all this brazilian stuff really reached europe)
I absolutely agree that I would bet on a person who trains the trainable safe stuff full throttle against someone who cannot ever use his techniques on a partner in fear of ripping a tendon off.
@@swordfightingschool I stand corrected. And that is great to hear. It's rare enough that I come across legit medieval wrestlig schools, so to find one that incorporates regular sparring is truly special. I'm sure you'd agree that lamentably it is not the standard to find one that emphasizes sparring to anywhere near the degree that BJJ does.
(Paradoxically, we are a "young" community)
And from watching the footage, your man proved himself more than effective against a serious BJJ purple belt, which is a very high credential in my opinion. I think even a BJJ blue belt could be said to be grappling expert.
I would love to have a crew dedicated to sparring medieval grappling as much as they are dedicated to sword sparring. Something to work on!
You're doing amazing work.I hope fate can take me to your school some day!
EDIT: I re-read my original post and saw that I wrote "doesnt emphasize sparring at all" which I can see was completely wrong.
Obviously wrong, since you sparred in the video and did well!
I changed my post to remove that and replace it with "to the same degree as BJJ".
Of course what makes it into the edit of a video can be misleading.
@@FlorisGerber Thank you! I couldn't agree more with your breakdown of the different types of techniques. And props for running a Dürer seminar.
People (especially online) always want to pigeonhole and rank and discard entire martial arts traditions, but if you go technique by technique most are valid depending on the context.
I just picked up Dürer's manual and have been going through it (like "hey I'm the most famous German artist of all time and by the way I wrote this book on knife fighting and arm breaking, would you like to buy it?")
TO start getting into the manuals goes way beyond the scope of a TH-cam comment, but most manuals contain a mix of technique "types" because not every situation calls for permanently crippling your opponent.
Just like us nowadays, medieval people sometimes wanted to just show off and get attention for their school, or subdue a drunken friend without hurting them, and of course sometimes they needed to cripple a life threatening attacker.
Ott Jud is the consummate pragmatist. He wants you to know what works. Unfortunately he didn't bother hiring an artist to draw any pictures.
Lekuchner is super comprehensive, and has techniques for all seasons: he shows serious throws, breaks, kills, unarmed defense against swords, but also whimsical techniques to please the crowd, like how to pin a guy with one hand and play a game of backgammon with the other. And everyone's favourite, how to put a guy in a burlap sack.
Talhoffer's manuals have barely any text. They're more like a CV, a smattering of the techniques you could learn if you hired him to coach you for your upcoming judicial duel. He's mostly pragmatic, but throws some flashy stuff in there.
Dürer strikes me as a superfan and dedicated amateur. A guy with a successful day job who can't help but think about fighting every time he's not at work... (as such, I personally relate to him more than the others!)
The problem is when people use a single technique and think it speaks for the whole system, like "BJJ fighters only pull guard and therefore it is only sport and doesn't work in the street" or "Lekuchner is only for putting your friends in burlap sacks".
Every technique is an answer to a particular question. With experience (and some common sense) comes an eye for what type of question the given technique is answering.
This place is absolutely incredible and the work he has done to put all of the equipment and knowledge together is an enormous service to us all! I would so much want to visit this place one day.
I’m glad you enjoyed it 👍
This was such a well-made video, and I love the respect that you show to everyone. Awesome work
You should come try Sambo at my school Sambo Nation Fort Worth. A student of mine and I just won pan ams so you would be getting the best training there is!
I’d love to! Thanks for the invite. Will remember this next time I’m out there
Sharper than a table knife? does he mean butter knife or steak knife? cause one of them is modern misinformation due to finding swords with deteriorating edges, swords meant for display or ceremony and dulled for safety. While the other is true, swords were quite sharp, and historical examples and documentation/descriptions back this up
I come from Viking Age Reenactment (Semi to Full Contact Fighting) and HEMA environments (UK) and currently training BJJ, I have huge respect and appreciation for this video! HEMA is such a big umbrella term for a lot of different martial arts, in our school we did everything from fencing, swordsmanship, dagger-fighting to folk wrestling (catch wrestling, Glíma, grappling techniques), Bartitsu (English cane fighting for the streets with MMA elements), 1870s Pugilism (Boxing), etc. There are so many different types that encompass all historical martial arts and there is a lot of wrestling. You've only touched the tip of the mountain! This is what's ultimately made me want to start BJJ. Would love to see you try different types of folk wrestling :) Great video!
Love seeing HEMA get more coverage! I think it's worth mentioning that most HEMA practitioners do Bloßfechten (unarmored combated with a sword), but there are some schools, like the one you went to, that do harnischfechten (fighting in armor) as their end goal. It's also worth mentioning that many clubs have different approaches to trainning, my club for instance, uses sparring as a critical training tool
Hema was my gateway to judo through Ringen, which is basically what you did fornthe second class. The similarities far outway the differences, especially taking classic judo into account as that allows leg grabs. Modern competition judo is different, but grappling across cultures looks really similar, it's cool
Every martial artist with an open mind learns this fact quickly: the human body only moves certain ways, and breaking it is pretty consistent across all cultures.
@@koloblican11763no it don’t you can’t do a triple backflip beotch
hema looks really fun, but unfortunately it’s hard to find people who want to properly throw down with swords.
There's one part that he gets wrong. Not all blades were well maintained, it's untrue though that they were only slightly sharper than a table knife. THey'd sharpen it most likely similarly to a Katana ~ very sharp. Eventually though, they'd have to sharpen it again.
For half swording (Taking the blade in your hand), you'd most likely wear gloves.
Now I'm no expert and I wasn't there then, but at least, that's what I got from reliable sources (Scholagladiatoria, antique dealer, HEMA practionner, and archeologist), Skallagrim.
It depends on the sword, time, person, etc is most likely the answer. Great video though :D
As for your question, I've only did one semester of HEMA, a bit of classical fencing (lots of similarities, in similar systems, i.e. Rapier, Saber, small sword). I thoroughly loved HEMA, way more than classical fencing. I also did a lot foam fighting, which, again, is not the same but still shares some principles.
HEMA is still what I'd go for everytime. Sadly, I live "far" from the nearest school now. I'd love to find a fellow practicionner to spar with and practice.
What'S funny is BJJ is what I'll end up doing if I don't find some way to do HEMA. Again, great video!
Thank you for the video, I was thoroughly looking forward to it.
In my Ringen class we are working towards using the Glima style ruleset. Which I think youd probably enjoy.
The ruleset, to my understanding is, if you can get a throw without going to the ground then great. But odds are someone may take you down with them. At that point you do ground fighting not to necessarily submit the other, but to disengage in a dominant position and escape from your opponent whom youve left on the ground.
It was explained to me more of a battlefield scenario where you want to get out of that and up quickly so your buddy can come over and hit the downed guy with his axe.
This is actually similiar to a grappling style we emphasize in my CMA. No clue if opponents have weapons or freinds so staying on the ground can be a bad idea.
great editing and content man. big fan of the respect you showed for their art despite some of it probably not translating to more modernized mma. Cheers from a new subscriber
"The average sword back then easvas sharp as a table knife"
Incorrect. This is a myth, as it on the battlefield was a side arm, it was however used for self defense in civilian context, and had to be sharp as it could face anything from clothes to gambesons. So no, here you're lied to. There's however technics on how to "safely" grab your blade.
Contact someone like Skallagrím, Metatron, or Matt Easton on this topic. Or even Shad M Brooks.
OK i'll subscribe, i love both BJJ and HEMA. You found an awesome school there.
hey thanks for subscribing! appreciate you watching, and glad you enjoyed the video. gonna make a lot more soon!
I trained a little bit of Hema before jiujitsu, it gave me a good basis for at least the standing grappling part.
Great vibe at that school! (BJJ Black Belt here).
If accompanied by good pressure testing, HEMA grappling is VERY legit. Medieval European wrestling is where modern “Catch as Catch Can” and “Freestyle” wrestling come from. Also, modern “Greco/Roman” wrestling is in part derived from Medieval wrestling too
It was cool for you to roll super chill with him.
Good fun time, no egos and you don't need to prove to us BJJ guys that you'd obviously win in open grappling.
Cool dude who trains a lot more than just grappling.
Grappling is grappling. The rule set (or lack of rules) directs your grappling style. Think of how judo changed after changing the rules (taking away leg attacks). Grappling for sport is different from self-defense or combat. Good video. Thanks...
Maybe after this, Aikido might make a bit more sense. It came from the concept where both people might be armed
These cats are gonna rule the world once the zombies get here.
Abrazare and its German Cousin Ringenkunst are SO COOL!
One issue with medieval wrestling such as Fiore's is that it was a pure combative unlike wrestling for sport (which Fiore mentions). So there would be no submissions: if you lock a limb you don't give the opponent the old "Tap or I break it" you just break it immediately. There were also no holds barred - this was developed for war. Fiore specifically has a section on dirty tricks where he covers things such as corrosives or poisons "shown in this book that you would never do. I show you them purely to aid your knowledge." *wink wink*
So the more modern rules such as tapping out, wrestling to falls etc. is a more modern addition just to make it possible to practice without maiming each other.
“It’s the 21st century, Steven works…” actually real for that.
Cool stuff. I get a kick out of seeing genuine surprise at the effectiveness of another discipline's techniques. Nothing substitutes for actual experience, especially when surprises can be fatal. Thanks.
As someone who practices Jiu Jitsu and has trained HEMA (as well as wrestling for four years) I was excited to see this video. Love the content and the humility presented by both sides. Might have to subscribe to this channel. Some martial artists have wondered how HEMA is practical today. It is practical in the sense of a form of exercise, and coordination. Also I have found after training HEMA that I am able to time grappling right with people who attack me with sticks or other objects of the same sort. A HEMA practitioner learns (if they spar) how to maneuver around weapon strikes and knife attacks. This is helpful in real life.
HEMA practitioner and I’ve dabbled in BJJ. Nice to see them come together like this
@Josh Bean You should compete in a large HEMA tournament (something like SoCal Swordfight) and see how it goes, I think you'd have a great time!
Dude casually pulls a rondel, arguably the most dangerous dagger to come across.
Good video. I'm a Judo sensei in Minnesota and have been teaching some armored combat fighters judo to use in their art. Recently was working with them to adapt some weapon trap techniques from police tactics and Kali to their art. THose look very similar to some of the sword grappling shown in there.
Medieval grappler was my nickname in highschool
Most surprising part for me is when he said the medieval sword would barely be sharper than a table knife
Because it's wrong lol
@@ActionCow69 source?
@@derdox6720 Scholagladiatoria, ran by a HEMA instructor and antique arms dealer. Arms and Armor, partnered with the Oakshotte Institute.
What's a "table knife"?
@@MrCmon113 just google them and look at the pictures, you know them.
they are the knives you'd usually use at the dinner table and also called butter knives, because you'd usually spread your butter with them.
Gotta say, most people agree with the guy you asked when talking about why they get into hema. It's why longsword and rapier are probably the most popular, but smallsword or rondel dagger is likely rare to find.
Great video!
One thing from doing fiore wresling, its a good idea to learn sport wrestling to get a base.
Fiore to me at least is giving techniques he likes to a person he assumes can already wrestle.
Yes agreed, Fiore assumed (reasonably, given the time he was writing) that whoever was reading his book already had a solid wrestling knowledge, since that was one of the most common sports/games people played at the time. A modern person coming to his work with no prior knowledge will struggle (as I did, lol).
That's an incredibly good description.
Stephen Fick is a really good teacher from what I see of his and his group online and that was a pretty interesting and exciting video.
HEMA is a great across the board martial art. The community behind it is also fantastic.
Gotta love the face push, one of Fiore's big armizare concepts: where the head goes, the body follows.
HEMA conceptually is what MMA is to the different fighting styles included in that label. Look for "Abrazar" (which means "To hug" in vulgar latin) if you want to know about a more specific grappling technique straight from the xiii century Europe. The most comprehensive text is: "Flos duellatorum in armis, sine armis, equester et pedester" which literally means "The dueling flow with weapons, without weapons, on horseback and on foot". I read it in Italian, here is common knowledge among HEMA enthusiast, but I am sure you can find an english translation. To be more specific, the technique is known from the xiii century, the book is from the xiv century.
Ahhh man wish I could of been there that night! Thanks for coming.
Might come back 👀
@@joshbeambjj awesome if yah did
The art of Medieval Unarmed Combat has been in Training Manuel's for hundreds of years used to teach knights and men at arms, which was used in a very real situation where any mistakes were deadly.
It was deadly, nasty and used martial arts techniques based on wrestling and strikes, well worth learning, defending against weapons knife, swords is useful now.
that is very cool, Maistro, thanks for sharing your school.
This is quite interesting. Looks quite "applicable" in a self defense environment. Grappling and blades, I think I'm in love.❤😂
Awesome video. Really cool to see the similarities and differences between bjj and hema grappling.
You may not realize it, but the stuff you did in this video was not far off from some of the more practical aspects of Aikido / Aiki-Jiujitsu. If you are on the west coast, you should find Bruce Bookman. He made an excellent instructional video on making Aikido more practical. Has good insight into it and understands the weaknesses of the art. I'm sure there are other instructors too but he is a good one that comes to mind. Look up his "Jab to Kotegaeshi" video on Aikido Journal's channel.
It's so cool seeing a totally different grappling lineage going against jiu jitsu.
My wife (blue belt) and I (white belt) watched this together. She said the gentleman at 16:00 was playing with you. We're going to share this with our group chat, it's criminally under-viewed.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for the comment and sharing it around!
It's called light sparring. The guy making the video wasn't going 100% either.
I do Buhurt and we do use the "facepush" against a helmet to bring someone down. So it works even in armour.
You did da very good job with the video, and found an awsome school for it.
Wow, this is freaking awesome!!!!
Dude that quote about climbing the mountain is amazing
This was great. Much more interesting than I was expecting
Samurai use a close combat martial art called kumiuchi against armored soldiers. In this case the samurai uses short katana, wakizashi. Kumiuchi changed to jujutsu and judo.
Genpei seisui ki by Sanemitsu Tohei in the 13th century"Concerning one-on-one battles, it was common to cut at each other with a katana after battling using bows and arrows, which was followed by kumiuchi (grappling)."
Sumo Torikumidensho by Ryuetsu Morinao KIMURA in 1745. "Still kumiuchi remained an important military art in battles ('six or seven times out of ten times, kumiuchi was done in battle with warriors donning kacchu (armor).") "That's why warriors must practice the sumo wrestling which was done by ancient warriors."
The Russo-Japanese War by Thomas Cowen” At some of the forts men fought at close quarters, bayonet to bayonet, and it was once again shown that, though the Russians have the advantage of size and weight, they are no match for the quicker and more skilful Japanese”
I like :D Nice filming.
As a BJJ guy this was an awesome video. I love that
This is a great entertaining video, I wished I had known about this school and training when I still lived in San Jose, I would have definitely attended!
What are those hanged flags lmao
Yeah this american flag is pretty ridiculous
@@dhalav heretic
That was so interesting! Such a great video.
Thank you! Appreciate you watching