When we're discussing the song 'Lana del Rey lust for life' I forgot to mention that keep in mind we were listening to that song on a pair of Focal Kanta and your speaker have to be good enough to hear all the bass details. The RELs are there to supplement and they were able to keep up. So that song was a test for both the Focal Kanta and the REL subwoofers. Also, keep in mind I have a fully treated room with bass traps so bass is well controlled in my room. Finally, I believe these have an in-home trial period but please double-check.
Hi Thomas ! My opinion is that subs always help with the emotions for any music . I have got Velodyne SPL 1000 sub with my Focal Electras and I really enjoy the music this way much more ... The only downside to the Rel subs - they do not have the display to show volume , I use this on my Velodyne for fine adjustment of bass for different types of music, sometimes each song is different ! Keep up the good job !!!
I wouldn't use any Lana Del Rey material for testing your subwoofers, as her recordings are somewhat sloppy in the bass frequencies. Another option from a contemporary young female artist would be a song called "Bad Idea" from Ariana Grande. You should be able to hear all of the bass notes evenly in that song (particularly at the end) - if your subwoofer is capable of going that low!
I considered the REL, but, -6db at 30 hz when my speakers already dig deep down there??!! And that is why i went with the Rythmik sealed servo controlled SUPER FAST sub goodness stretching down to 14hz. I dance superfast to 14 hz mystical goodness now brah. A good man's gotta do what a good man's gotta do in this thing called life brah (moonwalk to that 14hz super fast goodness)
The photography is outstanding Thomas - perfect composition - the church, windmill and portrait look almost like you set them up with a golden mean ratio.
You did the best explanation for a review on the subwoofers that I've ever heard and answered all of my questions! Basically, I'm looking for a musical sub a sub that disappears when listening to music and you hit the nail on the head.
One difference between REL and other brands is that REL has been making Hi-Fi subwoofers since before they were fashionable. And they ONLY make subwoofers. That pedigree and focus is what sets them ahead for this application. All the best from Switzerland, Rob
Dear Thomas, thank you for sharing your (and your friends') experiences. I love your vlogs and find them inspiring. All my life I was convinced that I hated subwoofers until I tried the REL T5i some years ago. Recently I bought my second T7i. With my first T7i, I have experimented quite a bit with placement and cables. This is what I learned: 1. Place the subwoofer in the corner of the room according to REL's instructions for a maximum bass extension and efficiency. 2. Replace the standard cable with the REL Bassline blue for a beter bass extension and clean/open bass. 3. Replace the power cable (the Isotek Optimum is my favourite power cable for all my audio gear) for a more controlled, dynamic and clean/open bass. 4. Use the high current output of a power conditioner (I currently use the Isotek Aquarius, but I'm saving for the Isotek Nova 12 way) for an even more controlled, dynamic and clean/open bass. I hope this will help you to get the best experience with your wonderful T7i's (with front grills for a decent look) Best regards, Ivo
I bought a REL Storm III a couple years ago for $500. It's an almost 20yo subwoofer and at that price you won't find a better, more musical subwoofer. Maybe not even for twice the price. This thing still hits 18-20Hz with ease (measured in room) but without the boominess of modern ported subs, and has transformed how I listen to music.
Thomas, you must look into the Rythmik line. Their $1000 speaker that I prefer is a sealed 12" servo controlled and is down 3db at 14Hz. (The REL is down 6db at 30 Hz.) You say you wished the REL went down lower. The Rythmik does. Perhaps not as pretty as the REL. Being sealed it is a simple box, but can have a gloss piano finish. All sorts of controls for integration into system.
@@TheWidowMaker. The have a full line. Mine is the F12G but you can get what suits you. Depends on whether you're into HT or various kinds of music. No connection except a satisfied customer.
Got a pair of T9i's with my Dali opticon 8's in a dedicated listening room. The difference is mind blowing. Takes a while to get them set up properly but they improve everything, the soundstage improvement is incredible.
Great review Thomas I have a pair of the T5i and in my smallish listening room they are wonderful. I must also say the support from REL is a cut above in relation to a few questions I had with integrating them into my system.
I have dual SVS SB3000 subs ... Don't even know they are there. They just make the Artists magically appear in my listening room. Incredible soundstage and musical depth, providing seamless and musical bottom end. Clean, articulate, fast, and thick! Musical Nirvana! Never going back! 🤗
Yes, when it integrates well, it is incredible. Congrats on your setup and sharing your experience.
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@@ThomasAndStereo thanks for the video. Which sub would you suggest for DB1 Gold? I have the DBS1-aII (active version of the dbs). I was looking at PMC sub two, SVS SB1000 and REL-s. any hint? My room is small - 3.2 x 4.2 metres
Thomas thanks for the video, i am looking at REL now. Can you tell me what your thoughts are with a pair of Wilson Watt Puppy 5.1 , i am lookingat the REL 9Tx. Did you find the 7 series to small with the bigger spekers your tried? Thanks for your input
Forget the subs...those photos were top notch. Never knew that you were a phenomenal photographer! Would love to see your portfolio if you have a website!
Thanks, I don't have a website cause I want to keep my shooting to a minimum but here are a few links to my facebook page. facebook.com/thomas.tan.507464/media_set?set=a.10155726489464806&type=3 facebook.com/thomas.tan.507464/media_set?set=a.10152846919254806&type=3 facebook.com/thomas.tan.507464/media_set?set=a.450763814805&type=3
I was able to get quite a deal on a REL S/5 (originally a $2600 sub) for $1200 -- an open box. It really is awesome and meets all of Thomas' criteria. REL's unique high-level connection makes a big difference too. I only wish they had an app that made it possible to control remotely, but that's not a huge deal because I find that once I have it adjusted for my room I don't make adjustments.
Another thing to consider Thomas is the distributed bass array. The concept that the more subs the better and 4 subs is even better than 2 in terms of produces a very even smooth bass response in your room.
Thanks for the video. I’ve had one REL S/812 for one week now. I’m desperately trying not to want a second S/812. I had home based issues with the size of the sub and so that factor will stay my hand for a while. What I should say is that the effect of this sub on my whole sound experience has been profound. My main speakers are Revel Ultima Salon2’s - unbelievably good speakers. However, right across the dynamic range, the REL brings out something more. Yes, there is greater depth but even higher frequencies are enhanced. Unless I am incredibly lucky and have found the sweet spot when I plunked the sub down in the right hand borner of my living room, there may be room for further improvement in sound quality. Psychoacoustic have been transformed by the REL. My Revels have disappeared and I cannot hear the sub. The soundstage is fabulously strong. Yesterday, I was playing a piece of music and as I walked toward the speakers and the sound field I said, ‘what’s that?’. Up in the left hand corner of my living room I could distinctly hear a tympani drum where, I’m telling you, I’d never heard it before. I had been vacillating between buying a sub and buying into Dirac or some other room correction solution. I‘be previously owned DSPeaker gear but sold it when I bought into fully balanced gear. It’s possible that the REL has performed the correction that I needed. I’m a convert!
Glad that you really enjoy the sub and the fact that it can blend well with a $20k+ speaker is quite amazing. Thanks for the comment and hopefully others who read your comment will come to open up their mind regarding what good subs can do for a stereo setup.
I agree with you Thomas. I used a Jl e112 and it integrates exceptionally well with all speakers I have tried and it adds another dimension to large speakers that already have lots of base. So I use a sub with no matter what speaker I have. Would love to see you review a JL subs. Their drivers are incredible.
Huge fan of this video! Lots of eye candy and very informational! I agree with everything you said, basically summarized my experience with subwoofers through trial and error over the years and learning from it.
Great complimentary video to Zero Fidelity's review. Definitely considering these. I am a PS Audio hardware user and REL and PS Audio are complementors of each other. I also want a refined 2 channel music sub that works well with home theater. Fortunately, these may be small enough to add a second one later. I would have loved to hear your experience with just one subwoofer. Thank you for the review.
thanks for the review, the essence of the REL t7i subwoofers mentioned are communicated loudly and clearly. however your review missed on helpful comparisons for system speakers and room matching to this particular model. we are left with the REL "company line" to understand this and of course they recommend the much larger and more expensive models. It would have been nice to have a mention of how they fit within your room size and system compared to some of the other subs you have had in the past.
I just purchased a REL t/7i subwoofer to complement my anniversary LS50 speakers and a Yamaha A-S701 amp and the sound is excellent to my ears. I just listened to Frank Sinatra’s album “In the Wee Small Hours” and the sub blended perfectly and really enhanced the sound vs no subs. The glossy black LS 50 goes very well with the glossy black REL from an aesthetic point of view. I don’t have the space for two subs but one will do me. My living room in 6mx8m with the listening at one end 6mx4m.
Hi Thomas, I recently bought a Rega Elicit r and am running it with my Totem Tribe Towers. I like everything about the combo except for the lack of bass due to better control. I am currently running a REL HT1003 but I think I will try a REL t7i or t9i to hear if they really add to the sound I`m looking for. Thank you for your review.
I’ve been hoping you might cover this sub. Absolutely great review as always. I love your conversational style and the honesty you provide. I am moving from an apartment to a house in the next few months and it sounds like the REL (or a pair) might be a good match to add that little extra to my LS50 wireless setup.
I got a T9i to pair with LS50 with a good amp and DAC. It improves the sound of the system so much. I'm so happy. Before the sub the lack of low end with the LS50's really bugged me. Now I think it's perfect.
I just played that demo music track on my 4 x MG12S + 2 x Polk DSW 550 pro. I'm hearing all the details you're hearing with the RELs at a fraction of the price. Using speaker level out from RMB-1085 + UMC-1 pre/pro , crossed over at about 60hz from subs to the Maggie's. Yes I have listened RELs .
Awesome. So now that you have played this track on your system, you have something as a baseline. What you can do in the future is to hear it in other systems and see how it compares. Perhaps you will discovered details that you could not hear in your system in another system OR you can be really surprised that your system is much more resolving compare to other systems. My friend used it on many systems as one his test piece.
Velodyne is an awesome brand....I have had 17 years experience using them. I can't say anything negative about them. I have never had them pushed beyond a 35%-45% load ever. Just a wonderful sounding sub. I wouldn't mind trying out the BIC America H-100II 12-Inch 150 Watt Front Firing Powered Subwoofer. Do you have any experience with this BIC model?
It’s important to note that REL music subs are not designed to be high pass filtered by a bass management system, such as that found in an AV receiver. They are designed to augment rolled off bass from the mains instead of replacing it. Also they blend best with class AB speaker amplifiers.
I talked to a prominent subwoofer designer, who even has the same connection available on his sub, and he said that was complete bull, that low level connection was best. He sajd high level is if you simply have no other choice.
My comment did not touch on that specific issue. I personally think it’s mostly a moot point or in too small to notice category. I have heard all the arguments for a high level connection and they make sense at least in theory. The only argument that I have heard for a low level connection like a variable output is that it’s more convenient and less of a wire mess. If there is a theory about a sonic advantage, I would be interested to hear.
Hi thomas! im wondering, i have an active acoustic energy ae1 speakers. thinking of getting a rel t7x. do i need an amplifier to connect to the sub or i can use the amplifier from the active speaker?
I bought a REL T7i and paired it a set of vintage JBL 2800 and after about 30 min of playing with the crossover settings then put on LP of Nara Jones I was blown away from the the sound that I was hearing.
I pair my dual REL T9i subs with KEF LS50 and for me it's end game. I had originally thought about the T5i but after discussions with REL I got the following advice and am very glad I went with dual T9i...sublime! Quote Dear Sir! Thank you very much for your kind opinion about REL products. We do our best to create real musical bass sections for the speakers. For KEF LS50 I would highly recommend a T7/i or perfectly a T9/i in a size of a room like yours. Maybe later on you may take a look and purchase the second unit for a reference stereo bass. Connecting it to the speaker outputs of your amplifier parallel to the speakers with high level connection according to REL's manual would be the right and best way to do it. Hope this helps you to make your choice and to enjoy your system even more. Kind regards, Dr. Kirill Nenarokomov REL Acoustics Ltd. UnQuote
Nice and congrats! Yeah I think you have an 'end game' setup. I was talking to my friend about that actually the other day. LS50W + 2 REL subs and you are done.
@@ThomasAndStereo Yes but I use the vanilla LS50 not the wireless version. I use a Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum 2 amp and I love the way it delivers tons of " soft but clean" power which allows the LS50 pair to do it's party piece of crystal clear wide soundstage and imaging but lightly euphonic for hours of relaxing listening. Magical combination in my room. You might do a segment on how to position and tune the REL subs pairs with speakers to get the best out of them.
There is the philosophy that if you have enough amplifier power, you don't need servos. They are a crutch for a lesser amp. A powerful amp can stop and start a driver on a dime. Think about it, why does no one else use them, not really. And yet these other manufacturers somehow can manage to be rated very highly for sound quality, like REL.
@@bearzlla it's not big amp and call it a day, there's engineering there too. No, for me, I was interested in servos, 10 or 12 years ago, but i realized nobody else was doing it and i sought to find out why. You don't need them. I hate to use the word gimmick, but yeah.
Hi Thomas, great review. Looked at these a number of times, but kept thinking the bass extension of -6db at 30hz wasn't really adding a whole more to the bass extension of a decent floorstander as opposed to a sub that dips to 20hz. Do you feel this is a limitation ("missing something")?
Well it is a different experience with these subs, feels like I am getting quality bass as opposed to quantity bass. When you look at subs, adding tonal richness does not come to mind, we just want it to go low and boom boom boom. The lower the Hz the better, not so much for music. Do I feel a limitation? Sure, as I mentioned in the video, I do wished I have more extension but if I have to choose for music, I would give up extension if it means my sub can integrate better and all the other things I mentioned in the video.
Hi Thomas, very nice review and very informative as ever. What is your opinion on using electronic crossovers ? as the subs come already powered you can cut low Hzs and send them "only" to the subs very accurately with send the rest of the audio spectrum to the main speakers. Kind regards, gino
I have a T7i paired with KEF LS50’s and its a great match! I tried the T5i first and it didn’t give me the depth that I was looking for, also tried with a T9i and that was a little too much. The T7i was just right😊
@@ThomasAndStereo Shouldn't you get the T9i if you want the lowest frequencies, or aren't those frequencies that important for music? The Buchardt s400 goes down to 33 hz -3db (in room). The REL T7i only goes down to 30 hz -6db - but maybe the hz is lower in a smaller room?
@@rsa008 I don't know cause my room is not that big. Although the sub does not go 'low', it adds more weight and information to the overall presentation. So just don't think of it as supplementing the missing low end frequency but enhancing the lower frequency too. I paired it with a speaker that goes down to 20hz and it made a big difference. Sound a lot better with the subs despite rated to go down to 20hz. So S400 can benefit with the pairing.
@@ThomasAndStereo Hmmm, interesting. I see that the REL-pairing tool recommends pairing a KEF R3 (aprox same bassextension as S400) with a REL T7i, which is in line with what you are claiming. One should probably choose quality over quantity seeing as most people live in apartments now.
Excellent review Thomas. I can recommend the Kef R400B for the exact same reasons you like the Rel. Kef is not known for their subs but the R400B is competitive period. They're on sale directly from Kef USA from $1700 to $1000.
I love this video mainly because I just recently purchased a pair of RELs to add to my stereo listening system. Glad to finally see someone do a video like this. 😊👍🏽 I would not pick any SVS subs for music over anything REL makes. Had and SVS and sold it after a few months.
@tsyriac - I honestly do not remember exactly model of SVS, but let’s just say it cost way more than what I paid for my two REL-T5s. Also has nothing to do with the fact that it’s two VS one. Just pointing that out because I know someone is gonna make that comment.
“I WANT SUBS THAT FART, ….THE MORE FARTS THE BETTER!” Best review sentence ever!!! I lost it! Dood, I get it. Funny use of words but it’s so applicable when you’re in the know.
Hi Thomas, the B&W ASW608 & ASW610 subwoofers go down to 23dB and 20dB respectively, yet are said to have good base control/definition, which might make them good for classical music. Did you ever listen to them? The COVID19 pandemic is stopping me from auditioning them with Rel T7i and T5i. Price wise they’re cheaper than the Rel’s.
Thomas I love your reviews and the way you are nonchalant about everything. Since you don't have Twitter, I just purchased a pair of B&W 804 Diamonds (D2) and the tweeters are very bright. Like some genres of music are fatiguing immensely. I am looking to pair them with the warmest and smoothest amplifier I can find without breaking the bank. Also what will help more with smoothing and taming the treble? An amplifier or pre-amplifier or DAC? I am currently using the Marantz HD-DAC1 plugged into my Harman Kardon HK 3490 (I know, prob not the right stereo receiver). Thank you!
@@ThomasAndStereo I did, it did help, I think the character of the speaker won't change much even if you tame the treble. Part of that metallic sizzle is still there. They say B&W are power hungry speakers and I don't see why this amp will do the job, especially since I think it has a clean and warmish sound. I will be borrowing an Anthem STR Integrated and run some room correction to see if that makes a difference. Otherwise in your experience what are some of the components DAC,Pre-Amp, Amplifier or even Integrated Amplifier that have a smoother warmer sounding signature? Thank you for the quick response!
@@cyberathlete yeah. The HK amp is a bit weak with the bass. As such the top end gets accentuate even more. McIntosh are pretty smooth. I personally use moon w5.3 but the new moon are a bit too anlytical for me. For preamp I use modwright ls100. You can look into a Hegel h300, in fact I think that is the best solution. Or the Hegel h360.(This I never tried)
@@ThomasAndStereo Thank you so much! I will try those and post back with my results. Also will let you know how the Anthem STR fared. That makes sense, being weak in the bass and accentuating the highs may make the speakers perceivably bright. I love the sound signature of the B&W, vocals a bit forward, and really open sound but these speakers are like those hot girlfriends that are high maintenance. You know you wish she'd play nice and just be nice over all but no, to keep her happy you need to give her what she wants.
@cyberathlete You could also play with different cables. I've got Kimber 8VS (braided cable) with my Kef R300. I prefer it way better than the straight cables I have, as I'm used to a bit rolled off treble. It's a kind of equalization. To make the effect more noticeable, the cable can be "fluffed" by pushing it from the sides to the center with two hands (segment by segment). And, as you mentioned, the character of the speakers won't change much. Slightly metallic sizzle's still there. Speakers still sound airy and detailed in the upper octaves.
Thank you for another great video Thomas. I just bought one T7i and using these with the Harbeth SHL5+ Anniversaries. Any tips on how to integrate it with the main speakers? What level and crossover do you use and how to set that up? I find the it gives it a bit more weight to the music however it takes away a cleaness of the sound.
Congrats. What you described is normal as I mentioned in past video. The key is to find the right balance and you will eventually get used to it. Just have to go thru the transition period. Best way is to either email REL or watch the videos on REL youtube channel on how to setup the subs. Can be sub placement too. If they are too close to the wall, you might be getting too much boomy bass.
I love my Rels. I have a pair of t7i with my sonus Faber floor standing concerto. Setting the crossover to a bit below the low frequency range of the speakers makes the sound seamless.
If you are talking about movies, I set my AVR to send only the frequency my speakers can handle to the speakers and the rest to the subs. For music, it is a stereo amp so full range to the speakers and then I use the crossover on the subs.
Hi Thomas thanks for video. If possible can you mention what were the crossovers you used for different speakers. I felt, for stereo signal sub integration very tricky and default. I wish you would have covered that topic as well.
@Thomas & Stereo : Simply I would like to hear from you . Tips and tricks any suggestions.. just that I really try to understand when you share your experience
@@kvrhifi Well one thing I learn is that if the speaker is set to go down to 30hz, I would cross it higher than that, meaning I would set my sub crossover around 50hz to start cause not every speaker drop off the same. Some I would even go higher than 50hz. Really depends on the speaker. After that, then I play with the volume. With REL subs, it is that easy. With other normal subs, not really.
Purchase advice: Rel S3 SHO vs Rel T7i/Kef kube 10b/12b? I found a seller that would sell the Rel S3 SHO (almost new) for half price , so same price as the 12b since he is upgrading to a larger set. I am using Kef LSX speakers. Which would you recommend? Can a subwoofer be ‘too big’ for the speakers? Thought process is that buying a good subwoofer now and using with LSX for some time until I buy bigger speakers in a few years.
Thanks for this video. I know it was about the RELs, but I’m curious about the SA Silverback 40s because it’s the fourth Danish-made speaker company I’ve heard about in the past year. How did you like them?
That one is the active one, I will make a video on it. They are voiced to be neutral with tilted up treble. Great for people who like that kind of sound.
Hi Thomas , do you recommend a t/7i or t/9i . I’m Buidling my speakers set up . Presently I have a diy speakers which r amazing . Planning to buy a focal kanta no2 after I hear them . My living room is abt 320 sq ft . My listening is both home theatre as well as music 🎧. Looking fwd to yr videos and appreciate ur advice
@@ThomasAndStereo it’s interesting you said that as they sent you 2 subs instead of 1. I wonder how much different it would’ve been for a review as a single T-9i instead of 2 T-7i’s.
Thomas, I’m interested in picking up a REL and was hoping you could answer something for me. I ordered Omega speakers from Louis which are very efficient. I’m powering them with very nice 1 watt per channel SET monoblocks. Did you have any issues using the REL high level input with low output tube amps? I was told by my REL dealer it might be problematic if you don’t have enough gain for the speakers and the sub for a decent signal to the sub. I’m also worried that using low level will kind of negate the benefit of having a REL. Any thoughts or experience on that?
I had Omega speakers before too, really nice. I did not test the REL subs with high level input and SET at the time because I did not have a SET amp. Low level input still sounds 95% of high level input so I personally would not lose sleep over it.
thomas. I have focal 1000 iwlcr6 in wall L R and center. I want system to integrate well and be mostly hidden. I have a older rel t2 in white. I want to get new REL subs in white as well. I am first about music then second about HT. Which do you recommend for me. one t9 or two t5 or two t7. room size is 365 square feet. Let me know your thoughts
I have the Klipsch rp-600m with one SVS SB1000 and they sound great together. Like you said the SVS Sealed sub blends seamlessly with the Klipsch musically (depending on the volume of the sub of course) It ticks all the points you mentioned. Even with only one sub i cant tell where the bass is comming from. Then there is also the discussion going sealed versus ported. Anyway Tx for all the great reviews , keep it up !
The difference is more than just room size. The front firing driver of the t7i will give you more definition. Email Rel and ask them for suggestion which is the better way to go.
Thanks Thomas. Would it be possible to use just one sub or would it make it uneven? I have the IOTAVX stack and there's only one sub out. I know you can get a splitter but sadly I just don't have the funds 😃
Oh you can add 2 subs with the IOTAVX cause it has preout. The PA3 also have preout output. Having said that, one sub is more than enough in most cases.
Nice video , To me phase matching is a must !! Thats why i uploaded a video on how 2 properly hook up a active subwoofer to an ampliefier with no Subwoofer rca output , When actually using high level input of the subwoofer with the amps B channel speaker output, this means I'm getting the same exact signal as the front full range speakers, then its up to the indiviual to tune in and tune out 😆 this VIDEO I uploaded got 82k views so far kind of shocked at that one , hopefully SANSUI AU 11000 coming soon 😆 Thanks Thomas always great videos !
@@ThomasAndStereo your shoutout about the 703s i reviewed got me about 200 subscribers also thanks Thomas , I have never asked any1 to subscribe but now i realise i should have all along to get loan lease agreements but the subscribers i do have are dam good subscribers i got lucky on that one
I’ve actually decided to go without my REL S5 SHO. I just use it for Home theatre now as I felt it was blurring the sound a little. In a bigger room maybe but not in my room. It needs to go up front or it can be a tad localised and I dont have the space
Do you have any experience with REL S510? Do you now use subwoofers in your sistem and if not why not? I,m thinking of getting pair of rel s510 to support my stereo sistem..the only think that bothers me if the integration in my stereo system will be ok..
I just ordered a s/510 to pair with dynaudio special 40. John Hunter from REL himself recommended this model and so did Primare as I use a Primare i35 class D amp with the Danes.
If your vibing with the KEF they just came out with an ULTRA small sub, the thing looks stinking cool. Its pretty freaking expensive though at 1500 dollars. It is however one of the sweetest pieces of design for its size I have ever seen, its tiny. The KC62 will match your speakers and they come in black and white.
I prefer ported subs for movies and sealed for music . I use a ported SVS 1000 something or other on a Onkyo RZ50 with Focal Chora 826D L & R with a center channel speaker . In my music room I use a Rotel 1592 MKII hooked up to Polk R700s with a REL Classic 99 . I love it like this . The Choras are great for accents or difficult to hear dialogue
Dear Thomas, Thank ´s for the amazing video. Now I ´m really interested in sub. I always thought I don ´t need one with my Dynaudio HS but I think they would bring dynamic into my system. My amp is a Hegel H390. Unfortunately there is only one output… So I have two question and hope you can help me. Is there a possibility to connect two subs to my system or what do I need for this? Second: Would one bigger REL be enough? Cheers Gerald
@@ThomasAndStereo Thanks a lot for your fast reply Thomas. This really helps because I was wondering how I can connect two sups. So I will get the two T7. Makes more sense for my small room :)
One brand of subs that I rarely see reviewed or mentioned that people should look at are the Martin Logan Dynamo series. I have had a pair of the Dynamo 800X in one of my two audio systems for 7 or 8 months now and am very happy with them. They are in a music only system (Yamaha A-S 1100 amp, Yamaha CDS-1000 SACD/CD player, Yamaha WXC-50 pre-amp music streamer, Jamo Concert 8 loudspeakers on stands), and the vast majority of my listening is classical music and jazz. I suspect their performance is similar to the RELs, but they have some advantages. They only weigh about 28 pounds each so are easy to move around to where they sound best. They come configured as down firing, but you can detach and reinstall the feet with a screwdriver to make them front firing if needed or desired (I left them down firing). They also come with an Anthem software app that lets you make all the operational adjustments with a smart phone or tablet while sitting in your listening position via Bluetooth - phase, volume, low frequency volume, crossover frequency. It also comes with room correction software you can run. The adjustments needed to make a pair of subs disappear to the point that they are part of the overall sound but it's not apparent where their sound is coming from are very small. I find it very useful to be able to do it from the listening position where I was able to make tiny tweaks to each sub instead of having to crawl under the table where they sit, make a tiny adjustment, go back to the listening position and decide if it's better or worse than before. I made tiny tweaks to the settings for a few days as I listened to more music, but I've never touched them again after the first 2 or 3 weeks. Another good thing about them is that they can be connected via either high level or low level connections. My amplifier only has one set of outputs for a sub and if I stream music via "Aux" on the amp, it bypasses the sub outputs. I have both subs connected high level via the bookshelf loudspeakers on stands, so the subs are always on when I'm playing any music. I have them in a relatively small room (about 12' by 15' with a 9 1/2 foot ceiling) and they're plenty. If you have a big room, there are bigger and heavier subs in the Martin Logan Dynamo series that come with the same software apps and high level connection capability. I bought my pair as open box items from an online dealer for a little under $550 each (discounted 25%) plus the cost of good cables.
Thanks for your reviews as always. If it's possible to keep the REL's around a little longer I would love to hear your input on a direct comparison between a comparable SVS and Velodyne Sub (since those are often talked about). I know SVS at least has a 45 day trial, not sure about Velodyne.
Yes, eventually I will reach out to SVS. Having said that, Sean @ Zero fidelity already made the comparison with his video in case you have never seen it.
Hi there buddy. Amazing idea as always. I would go ask for your advice or even your followers. I have a old Sunsui G-3000. It’s low end old receiver. But it’s a near mint condition. I want to bring it to my bedroom for light listening. It’s only 26 watts at 8 ohms and maybe about 40 at 4 ohms. Now I only space for a set of small bookshelves speakers or even monitors. I was wondering witch speakers can you recommend for this receiver being it’s low wattage. Thanks for any advise and help
Wow, 26 watt will require a decent efficient pair of speakers. Perhaps RP600M or Triangle? Truth is with both speakers, I drove it with at least 50w so I would not know how it will perform with low power amp.
Thomas apparently Rel dont do well with Dirac calibration.... Rel confirmed this via email to me and said manual setup was better, can you confirm this? :)
Hello Thomas!! Need some expert advice from you my friend. Which subwoofer out of JL Audio E110 and Rel T9X would be better suited for 2 channel listening. I listen to more of Techno. So I definitely want it to be fast and punchy. I think the E110 will go much deeper where the Rel lacks more of depth... Just saying. i want the subwoofer to disappear with my Focal Chora 826 being used with the NAD C388. Room size is 20 x 18 Thank you in advance.
There is a bit of contradiction in what you are asking for. You want it to be punchy and get your want it to disappear and not hear it. REL subs are fast, very fast but it is more about adding information than adding punch. You will not hear your REL subs.
Damn you Sean and Thomas! I just picked one up yesterday. Teamed up with my KEF LS50 Limited Black Edition and Denon PMA 1600NE integrated amplifier and PC as source(office system)
Congrats! How is it? Play with the crossover, forget looking at the specs of the kef ls50. Just experiment with it. If you use the high level input, check out the videos on how to connect cause it is different between class ab and class d as well as class ab differential amps.
@@ThomasAndStereo Well I've had them running in for 15 hours now, did the manual setup procedure. My wife and I share this hobby and we were both pleasantly stunned by its capability(I was laughing out loud and giggling like a grade school kid!). Very articulate, deep, organic bass presentation. Love how it gives weight to pianos, vocals and spatial cues. Yes I did make sure to connect properly. I've watched almost all REL videos before taking the plunge.
@@RKB900 What a great story. I am so happy to hear it and congrats. My friend tried it with his Raidho D1, ($28k+ cdn) speakers with diamond woofers and he said these REL subs work really good with his speakers.
@@ThomasAndStereo That's really impressive Thomas! My other system is the Cornwalls and my main 2 channel rig has Magnepan 20.7's. Not sure if the little T7i can help those out due to the 15 inch bass drivers and large spaces they both occupy, but I may experiment to find out. All in fun this hobby! I wanted to create a lower(ish) end system, midrange and all out assault. If you are ever in Alberta let me know.
Thomas, you’ve inspired me to add subs! Can you tell me what your ‘crossover click setting’ is on your stereo rels? Just curious...everyone’s room is different and their speakers but still. I have8000fs so wanted to know how you’re blending them. Thanks!
@@zeke937 Have you seen the amount of gear at my home!😂 I have truck loads of gear shipping in for more reviews. Check out the video 'why I don't do negative reviews' and you will see my hidden storage room.
Great video Thomas. I would have put flat frequency response and depth (F3) in this list around #2 and #3. Why? Most subs in the sub $1,000 USD range are either one note wonders, meaning their frequency response looks like a mountain rather than a plateau. Or they have an F3 above 32Hz. If a sub does not have an F3 of less than 35 Hz, what's the point? Unless your speakers have an F3 above say 55Hz the sub is not adding enough to justify the cost, space and complexity of adding it. That said I'm a HUGE fan of 2.2 systems. You can focus your spend on 4 high quality speakers rather than quantity. Keep the videos coming.
Also Thomas you mentioned that if you just want chest pounding you don't need rels. And that you demand 'more'. But my question is, do these small dual rels really pound your chest like a bigger sub can? If you said you want something 'DIFFERENT' that makes sense. But more? Have you tried well made dual 18s and compare the power to these small rels? Btw i am not saying rel is bad I am just saying if you have compared them to bigger subs that are very well made. You mentioned you wish they dug deeper and I think bigger subs (bigger than rel makes) would do that well without breaking the bank. I think they would give you a greater feeling of tactile bass and even more prescence and space in the sound than these smaller rels. Consider sealed PSA, rhythmiks (servo subs) or JTRs at no less than 18 inches. I bet you if you do this you will make it a permanent part of your setup (or at least leave them in place for a long time).
When we're discussing the song 'Lana del Rey lust for life' I forgot to mention that keep in mind we were listening to that song on a pair of Focal Kanta and your speaker have to be good enough to hear all the bass details. The RELs are there to supplement and they were able to keep up. So that song was a test for both the Focal Kanta and the REL subwoofers. Also, keep in mind I have a fully treated room with bass traps so bass is well controlled in my room. Finally, I believe these have an in-home trial period but please double-check.
Hi Thomas ! My opinion is that subs always help with the emotions for any music . I have got Velodyne SPL 1000 sub with my Focal Electras and I really enjoy the music this way much more ... The only downside to the Rel subs - they do not have the display to show volume , I use this on my Velodyne for fine adjustment of bass for different types of music, sometimes each song is different ! Keep up the good job !!!
You should try a Rythmik unit! Best i ever heard.
I wouldn't use any Lana Del Rey material for testing your subwoofers, as her recordings are somewhat sloppy in the bass frequencies. Another option from a contemporary young female artist would be a song called "Bad Idea" from Ariana Grande. You should be able to hear all of the bass notes evenly in that song (particularly at the end) - if your subwoofer is capable of going that low!
I considered the REL, but, -6db at 30 hz when my speakers already dig deep down there??!! And that is why i went with the Rythmik sealed servo controlled SUPER FAST sub goodness stretching down to 14hz. I dance superfast to 14 hz mystical goodness now brah. A good man's gotta do what a good man's gotta do in this thing called life brah (moonwalk to that 14hz super fast goodness)
AudioKinesis Swarm subwoofer system. Check it out Thomas . Man I would love to get your take on it.
REL has been at the forefront of subwoofers for a long time. Their ability to blend and dig deeper where your speakers stop is incredibles.
The photography is outstanding Thomas - perfect composition - the church, windmill and portrait look almost like you set them up with a golden mean ratio.
Thanks! I have been shooting over 15 years for fun and really enjoyed it.
The last section of the video sharing your friends opinions was awesome! Good format, I like it. Haven't seen that with other audiophile channels
Thanks!
James Andrew totally agree with this comment. That was such a helpful addition to truly understand the pros and cons
Love that section too 👍🏻
That is because most audiophiles and audio reviewers don't have friends.
Rumblestrip.NET 😆
You did the best explanation for a review on the subwoofers that I've ever heard and answered all of my questions! Basically, I'm looking for a musical sub a sub that disappears when listening to music and you hit the nail on the head.
First time I have seen any of your photography. Absolutely beautiful.
One difference between REL and other brands is that REL has been making Hi-Fi subwoofers since before they were fashionable. And they ONLY make subwoofers. That pedigree and focus is what sets them ahead for this application. All the best from Switzerland, Rob
i ve 2 x Rel Q200, they are over 20 years old and they still shine.
Im planning on buying one rel q200e for 250 euros, are they worth it? do they really go to 17hz?
The individual commentaries at the end were very helpful. Keep using those guys when possible please!
Dear Thomas, thank you for sharing your (and your friends') experiences. I love your vlogs and find them inspiring. All my life I was convinced that I hated subwoofers until I tried the REL T5i some years ago. Recently I bought my second T7i. With my first T7i, I have experimented quite a bit with placement and cables. This is what I learned:
1. Place the subwoofer in the corner of the room according to REL's instructions for a maximum bass extension and efficiency.
2. Replace the standard cable with the REL Bassline blue for a beter bass extension and clean/open bass.
3. Replace the power cable (the Isotek Optimum is my favourite power cable for all my audio gear) for a more controlled, dynamic and clean/open bass.
4. Use the high current output of a power conditioner (I currently use the Isotek Aquarius, but I'm saving for the Isotek Nova 12 way) for an even more controlled, dynamic and clean/open bass.
I hope this will help you to get the best experience with your wonderful T7i's (with front grills for a decent look)
Best regards, Ivo
Thanks Ivo for sharing your experience and congrats on your second sub.
I bought a REL Storm III a couple years ago for $500. It's an almost 20yo subwoofer and at that price you won't find a better, more musical subwoofer. Maybe not even for twice the price. This thing still hits 18-20Hz with ease (measured in room) but without the boominess of modern ported subs, and has transformed how I listen to music.
18hz at what db drop?
@@DescartesRenegade *edit* -6db at 16hz
if someone is actually braindead enough to argue that a dac or cables make more difference than adding a sub I am absolutely done. Great video.
I use rel t9 in my setup..and it improved my system greatly
Nice, what speakers?
I have the T9 too, it's awesome, if only I could get another one 😏
That Wicked Game cover by London Grammar that starts showing at 11:27 is superb. I wish I could find the uncompressed recording.
Good review. I love that you tried the subs with a range of different speakers to really get a balanced view of their performance
Thomas, you must look into the Rythmik line. Their $1000 speaker that I prefer is a sealed 12" servo controlled and is down 3db at 14Hz. (The REL is down 6db at 30 Hz.) You say you wished the REL went down lower. The Rythmik does. Perhaps not as pretty as the REL. Being sealed it is a simple box, but can have a gloss piano finish. All sorts of controls for integration into system.
I might have to look into rythmik... Which ones should I look at?
@@TheWidowMaker. The have a full line. Mine is the F12G but you can get what suits you. Depends on whether you're into HT or various kinds of music. No connection except a satisfied customer.
Got a pair of T9i's with my Dali opticon 8's in a dedicated listening room. The difference is mind blowing. Takes a while to get them set up properly but they improve everything, the soundstage improvement is incredible.
Yeah, I wish I had the T9i myself and good for you!
Thomas & Stereo does the T9 go deeper? 🤔
You're a great photographer, those photos off the hook !
Great review Thomas I have a pair of the T5i and in my smallish listening room they are wonderful. I must also say the support from REL is a cut above in relation to a few questions I had with integrating them into my system.
I have a T5i and absolutely love it. It matches my LRS maggies really good
Congrats, they are really responsive but I was wondering if it was because I am a reviewer but now that you confirmed it, thank you.
Congrats! I want LRS too!
I have dual SVS SB3000 subs ... Don't even know they are there. They just make the Artists magically appear in my listening room. Incredible soundstage and musical depth, providing seamless and musical bottom end. Clean, articulate, fast, and thick! Musical Nirvana!
Never going back! 🤗
Yes, when it integrates well, it is incredible. Congrats on your setup and sharing your experience.
@@ThomasAndStereo thanks for the video. Which sub would you suggest for DB1 Gold? I have the DBS1-aII (active version of the dbs). I was looking at PMC sub two, SVS SB1000 and REL-s. any hint? My room is small - 3.2 x 4.2 metres
Loved the first hand commentary at the end.
using 2 REL S/510 for music (fronts) and a SVS Ultra for the .1 HT sub-channel... perfection.
Thomas thanks for the video, i am looking at REL now. Can you tell me what your thoughts are with a pair of Wilson Watt Puppy 5.1 , i am lookingat the REL 9Tx. Did you find the 7 series to small with the bigger spekers your tried?
Thanks for your input
Like the looks of the Rels, and your criteria for a great music sub.
Forget the subs...those photos were top notch. Never knew that you were a phenomenal photographer! Would love to see your portfolio if you have a website!
Thanks, I don't have a website cause I want to keep my shooting to a minimum but here are a few links to my facebook page.
facebook.com/thomas.tan.507464/media_set?set=a.10155726489464806&type=3
facebook.com/thomas.tan.507464/media_set?set=a.10152846919254806&type=3
facebook.com/thomas.tan.507464/media_set?set=a.450763814805&type=3
I have a Rel T5i. It’s a brilliant sub.
I'm using the T5i with totem Mites. Incredible combination
Please tell me, what is your acoustics and how many square meters is the room?
@@vainamoinen3158 My room is roughly 20 feet by 20 feet and is L shaped. REL has a calculator on its site. The T5i is plenty for my room.
Just a point of reference....
I would've never have thought by adding a partner for ones Rel made the integration a whole lot easier!
I was able to get quite a deal on a REL S/5 (originally a $2600 sub) for $1200 -- an open box. It really is awesome and meets all of Thomas' criteria. REL's unique high-level connection makes a big difference too. I only wish they had an app that made it possible to control remotely, but that's not a huge deal because I find that once I have it adjusted for my room I don't make adjustments.
Another thing to consider Thomas is the distributed bass array. The concept that the more subs the better and 4 subs is even better than 2 in terms of produces a very even smooth bass response in your room.
Thanks for the video. I’ve had one REL S/812 for one week now. I’m desperately trying not to want a second S/812. I had home based issues with the size of the sub and so that factor will stay my hand for a while. What I should say is that the effect of this sub on my whole sound experience has been profound. My main speakers are Revel Ultima Salon2’s - unbelievably good speakers. However, right across the dynamic range, the REL brings out something more. Yes, there is greater depth but even higher frequencies are enhanced. Unless I am incredibly lucky and have found the sweet spot when I plunked the sub down in the right hand borner of my living room, there may be room for further improvement in sound quality. Psychoacoustic have been transformed by the REL. My Revels have disappeared and I cannot hear the sub. The soundstage is fabulously strong. Yesterday, I was playing a piece of music and as I walked toward the speakers and the sound field I said, ‘what’s that?’. Up in the left hand corner of my living room I could distinctly hear a tympani drum where, I’m telling you, I’d never heard it before. I had been vacillating between buying a sub and buying into Dirac or some other room correction solution. I‘be previously owned DSPeaker gear but sold it when I bought into fully balanced gear. It’s possible that the REL has performed the correction that I needed. I’m a convert!
Glad that you really enjoy the sub and the fact that it can blend well with a $20k+ speaker is quite amazing. Thanks for the comment and hopefully others who read your comment will come to open up their mind regarding what good subs can do for a stereo setup.
What I'd love to try are the RSL speedwoofer 10s, for about 1/2 the price. They also have been nicely reviewed. Great review on the RELs.
I agree with you Thomas. I used a Jl e112 and it integrates exceptionally well with all speakers I have tried and it adds another dimension to large speakers that already have lots of base. So I use a sub with no matter what speaker I have.
Would love to see you review a JL subs. Their drivers are incredible.
Huge fan of this video! Lots of eye candy and very informational! I agree with everything you said, basically summarized my experience with subwoofers through trial and error over the years and learning from it.
Thanks Thujan, nice to hear from the Subwoofer guru!
Great complimentary video to Zero Fidelity's review. Definitely considering these. I am a PS Audio hardware user and REL and PS Audio are complementors of each other. I also want a refined 2 channel music sub that works well with home theater. Fortunately, these may be small enough to add a second one later. I would have loved to hear your experience with just one subwoofer. Thank you for the review.
Blend seamlessly is definitely #1 for me. REL has been reliable through many speaker swaps.
Yeah, I was quite surprised how easy it was.
thanks for the review, the essence of the REL t7i subwoofers mentioned are communicated loudly and clearly. however your review missed on helpful comparisons for system speakers and room matching to this particular model. we are left with the REL "company line" to understand this and of course they recommend the much larger and more expensive models.
It would have been nice to have a mention of how they fit within your room size and system compared to some of the other subs you have had in the past.
REL are great, but you should check MOREL subwoofers - are even more amazing! Special for music.
I think the "REL" on the feet looks a bit naff.
I just purchased a REL t/7i subwoofer to complement my anniversary LS50 speakers and a Yamaha A-S701 amp and the sound is excellent to my ears. I just listened to Frank Sinatra’s album “In the Wee Small Hours” and the sub blended perfectly and really enhanced the sound vs no subs. The glossy black LS 50 goes very well with the glossy black REL from an aesthetic point of view. I don’t have the space for two subs but one will do me. My living room in 6mx8m with the listening at one end 6mx4m.
Congrats!
What a step up of quality, congratulations Thomas
Great and informative review. Learned a lot. Looking forward to your Billie amp review too 😉👍
Hi Thomas, I recently bought a Rega Elicit r and am running it with my Totem Tribe Towers. I like everything about the combo except for the lack of bass due to better control. I am currently running a REL HT1003 but I think I will try a REL t7i or t9i to hear if they really add to the sound I`m looking for. Thank you for your review.
I’ve been hoping you might cover this sub. Absolutely great review as always. I love your conversational style and the honesty you provide. I am moving from an apartment to a house in the next few months and it sounds like the REL (or a pair) might be a good match to add that little extra to my LS50 wireless setup.
Thanks Ron, I was actually chatting with Mr Kanta tonight about LS50W + subs = end game.
I got a T9i to pair with LS50 with a good amp and DAC. It improves the sound of the system so much. I'm so happy. Before the sub the lack of low end with the LS50's really bugged me. Now I think it's perfect.
I got 1 t9x and it’s amazing can’t wait to get a second!
I just played that demo music track on my 4 x MG12S + 2 x Polk DSW 550 pro. I'm hearing all the details you're hearing with the RELs at a fraction of the price. Using speaker level out from RMB-1085 + UMC-1 pre/pro , crossed over at about 60hz from subs to the Maggie's. Yes I have listened RELs .
Awesome. So now that you have played this track on your system, you have something as a baseline. What you can do in the future is to hear it in other systems and see how it compares. Perhaps you will discovered details that you could not hear in your system in another system OR you can be really surprised that your system is much more resolving compare to other systems. My friend used it on many systems as one his test piece.
Hi Thomas,
I am considering two REL T5x Subs. Have you done any Review for that model?
Velodyne is an awesome brand....I have had 17 years experience using them. I can't say anything negative about them. I have never had them pushed beyond a 35%-45% load ever.
Just a wonderful sounding sub. I wouldn't mind trying out the BIC America H-100II 12-Inch 150 Watt Front Firing Powered Subwoofer. Do you have any experience with this BIC model?
Thomas thanks for great video I got around to subwoofer on my journey,my question is what is better,get two i7 or one i9 thanks
It’s important to note that REL music subs are not designed to be high pass filtered by a bass management system, such as that found in an AV receiver. They are designed to augment rolled off bass from the mains instead of replacing it.
Also they blend best with class AB speaker amplifiers.
Ah, thanks for the comment.
I talked to a prominent subwoofer designer, who even has the same connection available on his sub, and he said that was complete bull, that low level connection was best. He sajd high level is if you simply have no other choice.
My comment did not touch on that specific issue. I personally think it’s mostly a moot point or in too small to notice category. I have heard all the arguments for a high level connection and they make sense at least in theory. The only argument that I have heard for a low level connection like a variable output is that it’s more convenient and less of a wire mess. If there is a theory about a sonic advantage, I would be interested to hear.
Ok I think you are confusing high pass filtering with high level connection.
@@seanb3303 not at all. Im talking straight from the amplifier high level same as REL
Hi thomas! im wondering, i have an active acoustic energy ae1 speakers. thinking of getting a rel t7x. do i need an amplifier to connect to the sub or i can use the amplifier from the active speaker?
I bought a REL T7i and paired it a set of vintage JBL 2800 and after about 30 min of playing with the crossover settings then put on LP of Nara Jones I was blown away from the the sound that I was hearing.
Congrats!
I pair my dual REL T9i subs with KEF LS50 and for me it's end game. I had originally thought about the T5i but after discussions with REL I got the following advice and am very glad I went with dual T9i...sublime!
Quote
Dear Sir!
Thank you very much for your kind opinion about REL products. We do our best to create real musical bass sections for the speakers.
For KEF LS50 I would highly recommend a T7/i or perfectly a T9/i in a size of a room like yours. Maybe later on you may take a look and purchase the second unit for a reference stereo bass.
Connecting it to the speaker outputs of your amplifier parallel to the speakers with high level connection according to REL's manual would be the right and best way to do it.
Hope this helps you to make your choice and to enjoy your system even more.
Kind regards,
Dr. Kirill Nenarokomov
REL Acoustics Ltd.
UnQuote
Nice and congrats! Yeah I think you have an 'end game' setup. I was talking to my friend about that actually the other day. LS50W + 2 REL subs and you are done.
@@ThomasAndStereo Yes but I use the vanilla LS50 not the wireless version. I use a Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum 2 amp and I love the way it delivers tons of " soft but clean" power which allows the LS50 pair to do it's party piece of crystal clear wide soundstage and imaging but lightly euphonic for hours of relaxing listening. Magical combination in my room. You might do a segment on how to position and tune the REL subs pairs with speakers to get the best out of them.
Rythmik Audio servo subs for home theatre are simply kick @ss
You neighbours must love you :)
There is the philosophy that if you have enough amplifier power, you don't need servos. They are a crutch for a lesser amp. A powerful amp can stop and start a driver on a dime. Think about it, why does no one else use them, not really. And yet these other manufacturers somehow can manage to be rated very highly for sound quality, like REL.
@@bearzlla it's not big amp and call it a day, there's engineering there too. No, for me, I was interested in servos, 10 or 12 years ago, but i realized nobody else was doing it and i sought to find out why. You don't need them. I hate to use the word gimmick, but yeah.
Hi Thomas, great review. Looked at these a number of times, but kept thinking the bass extension of -6db at 30hz wasn't really adding a whole more to the bass extension of a decent floorstander as opposed to a sub that dips to 20hz. Do you feel this is a limitation ("missing something")?
Well it is a different experience with these subs, feels like I am getting quality bass as opposed to quantity bass. When you look at subs, adding tonal richness does not come to mind, we just want it to go low and boom boom boom. The lower the Hz the better, not so much for music. Do I feel a limitation? Sure, as I mentioned in the video, I do wished I have more extension but if I have to choose for music, I would give up extension if it means my sub can integrate better and all the other things I mentioned in the video.
You may get both with the SVS SB3000 or new SB 2000 pro.
Hi Thomas, very nice review and very informative as ever. What is your opinion on using electronic crossovers ? as the subs come already powered you can cut low Hzs and send them "only" to the subs very accurately with send the rest of the audio spectrum to the main speakers. Kind regards, gino
I have a T7i paired with KEF LS50’s and its a great match! I tried the T5i first and it didn’t give me the depth that I was looking for, also tried with a T9i and that was a little too much. The T7i was just right😊
Yeah, the choice between T7i and T9i should be room dependant.
Same same set up nice
@@ThomasAndStereo Shouldn't you get the T9i if you want the lowest frequencies, or aren't those frequencies that important for music? The Buchardt s400 goes down to 33 hz -3db (in room). The REL T7i only goes down to 30 hz -6db - but maybe the hz is lower in a smaller room?
@@rsa008 I don't know cause my room is not that big. Although the sub does not go 'low', it adds more weight and information to the overall presentation. So just don't think of it as supplementing the missing low end frequency but enhancing the lower frequency too. I paired it with a speaker that goes down to 20hz and it made a big difference. Sound a lot better with the subs despite rated to go down to 20hz. So S400 can benefit with the pairing.
@@ThomasAndStereo Hmmm, interesting. I see that the REL-pairing tool recommends pairing a KEF R3 (aprox same bassextension as S400) with a REL T7i, which is in line with what you are claiming. One should probably choose quality over quantity seeing as most people live in apartments now.
GREAT review Thomas, please keep up the good work!!
Excellent review Thomas. I can recommend the Kef R400B for the exact same reasons you like the Rel. Kef is not known for their subs but the R400B is competitive period. They're on sale directly from Kef USA from $1700 to $1000.
Hello Thomas, you think dual t7i can integrate well with a kef reference 3 speakers? Thanks
I love this video mainly because I just recently purchased a pair of RELs to add to my stereo listening system. Glad to finally see someone do a video like this. 😊👍🏽 I would not pick any SVS subs for music over anything REL makes. Had and SVS and sold it after a few months.
Congrats and glad it worked in your system. I think SVS makes different type of subs, maybe the one you chose was made more for HT?
What svs sub did you have and what rel’s?
@tsyriac - I honestly do not remember exactly model of SVS, but let’s just say it cost way more than what I paid for my two REL-T5s. Also has nothing to do with the fact that it’s two VS one. Just pointing that out because I know someone is gonna make that comment.
Love your videos Thomas, I always hit the like button before the video even starts
Thanks for the support and vote of confidence.
“I WANT SUBS THAT FART, ….THE MORE FARTS THE BETTER!” Best review sentence ever!!! I lost it! Dood, I get it. Funny use of words but it’s so applicable when you’re in the know.
Hi Thomas, the B&W ASW608 & ASW610 subwoofers go down to 23dB and 20dB respectively, yet are said to have good base control/definition, which might make them good for classical music. Did you ever listen to them? The COVID19 pandemic is stopping me from auditioning them with Rel T7i and T5i. Price wise they’re cheaper than the Rel’s.
Thomas I love your reviews and the way you are nonchalant about everything. Since you don't have Twitter, I just purchased a pair of B&W 804 Diamonds (D2) and the tweeters are very bright. Like some genres of music are fatiguing immensely. I am looking to pair them with the warmest and smoothest amplifier I can find without breaking the bank.
Also what will help more with smoothing and taming the treble? An amplifier or pre-amplifier or DAC?
I am currently using the Marantz HD-DAC1 plugged into my Harman Kardon HK 3490 (I know, prob not the right stereo receiver). Thank you!
Thanks, I had the 3490 before, have you tried using the tone control to lower the treble a bit?
@@ThomasAndStereo I did, it did help, I think the character of the speaker won't change much even if you tame the treble. Part of that metallic sizzle is still there. They say B&W are power hungry speakers and I don't see why this amp will do the job, especially since I think it has a clean and warmish sound. I will be borrowing an Anthem STR Integrated and run some room correction to see if that makes a difference.
Otherwise in your experience what are some of the components DAC,Pre-Amp, Amplifier or even Integrated Amplifier that have a smoother warmer sounding signature? Thank you for the quick response!
@@cyberathlete yeah. The HK amp is a bit weak with the bass. As such the top end gets accentuate even more. McIntosh are pretty smooth. I personally use moon w5.3 but the new moon are a bit too anlytical for me. For preamp I use modwright ls100. You can look into a Hegel h300, in fact I think that is the best solution. Or the Hegel h360.(This I never tried)
@@ThomasAndStereo Thank you so much! I will try those and post back with my results. Also will let you know how the Anthem STR fared. That makes sense, being weak in the bass and accentuating the highs may make the speakers perceivably bright. I love the sound signature of the B&W, vocals a bit forward, and really open sound but these speakers are like those hot girlfriends that are high maintenance. You know you wish she'd play nice and just be nice over all but no, to keep her happy you need to give her what she wants.
@cyberathlete You could also play with different cables. I've got Kimber 8VS (braided cable) with my Kef R300. I prefer it way better than the straight cables I have, as I'm used to a bit rolled off treble. It's a kind of equalization. To make the effect more noticeable, the cable can be "fluffed" by pushing it from the sides to the center with two hands (segment by segment). And, as you mentioned, the character of the speakers won't change much. Slightly metallic sizzle's still there. Speakers still sound airy and detailed in the upper octaves.
Thank you for another great video Thomas. I just bought one T7i and using these with the Harbeth SHL5+ Anniversaries. Any tips on how to integrate it with the main speakers? What level and crossover do you use and how to set that up? I find the it gives it a bit more weight to the music however it takes away a cleaness of the sound.
Congrats. What you described is normal as I mentioned in past video. The key is to find the right balance and you will eventually get used to it. Just have to go thru the transition period. Best way is to either email REL or watch the videos on REL youtube channel on how to setup the subs. Can be sub placement too. If they are too close to the wall, you might be getting too much boomy bass.
I love my Rels. I have a pair of t7i with my sonus Faber floor standing concerto. Setting the crossover to a bit below the low frequency range of the speakers makes the sound seamless.
Thomas, did you use highpass crossover for your main speakers or you send full frequency range to your mains?
If you are talking about movies, I set my AVR to send only the frequency my speakers can handle to the speakers and the rest to the subs. For music, it is a stereo amp so full range to the speakers and then I use the crossover on the subs.
Hi Thomas thanks for video. If possible can you mention what were the crossovers you used for different speakers. I felt, for stereo signal sub integration very tricky and default. I wish you would have covered that topic as well.
There is a lot of video on REL youtube channel that talks about that. Check them out.
@Thomas & Stereo : Simply I would like to hear from you . Tips and tricks any suggestions.. just that I really try to understand when you share your experience
@@kvrhifi Well one thing I learn is that if the speaker is set to go down to 30hz, I would cross it higher than that, meaning I would set my sub crossover around 50hz to start cause not every speaker drop off the same. Some I would even go higher than 50hz. Really depends on the speaker. After that, then I play with the volume. With REL subs, it is that easy. With other normal subs, not really.
Hi Thomas great review! How does it stack up against a B&W PV1? dual 8 inch isobaric... also musical imho.
Never heard those, sorry.
Purchase advice:
Rel S3 SHO vs Rel T7i/Kef kube 10b/12b? I found a seller that would sell the Rel S3 SHO (almost new) for half price , so same price as the 12b since he is upgrading to a larger set. I am using Kef LSX speakers.
Which would you recommend?
Can a subwoofer be ‘too big’ for the speakers?
Thought process is that buying a good subwoofer now and using with LSX for some time until I buy bigger speakers in a few years.
Hi Thomas, was there a reason you went for the T7i over the T9i. Apologies if you have already answered this
When I spoke to REL, they told me for my room it is good enough.
Thanks for this video. I know it was about the RELs, but I’m curious about the SA Silverback 40s because it’s the fourth Danish-made speaker company I’ve heard about in the past year. How did you like them?
That one is the active one, I will make a video on it. They are voiced to be neutral with tilted up treble. Great for people who like that kind of sound.
Hi Thomas, are they 12dB or 24dB per octave? I can't find that in the specs.
Sorry, no idea, you will have to email them.
Hi Thomas , do you recommend a t/7i or t/9i . I’m Buidling my speakers set up . Presently I have a diy speakers which r amazing . Planning to buy a focal kanta no2 after I hear them . My living room is abt 320 sq ft . My listening is both home theatre as well as music 🎧. Looking fwd to yr videos and appreciate ur advice
I wanted the T9i but REL suggested me T7i for my room size. Email them and ask them, tell them I sent you.
@@ThomasAndStereo it’s interesting you said that as they sent you 2 subs instead of 1. I wonder how much different it would’ve been for a review as a single T-9i instead of 2 T-7i’s.
Thomas, I’m interested in picking up a REL and was hoping you could answer something for me. I ordered Omega speakers from Louis which are very efficient. I’m powering them with very nice 1 watt per channel SET monoblocks. Did you have any issues using the REL high level input with low output tube amps? I was told by my REL dealer it might be problematic if you don’t have enough gain for the speakers and the sub for a decent signal to the sub. I’m also worried that using low level will kind of negate the benefit of having a REL. Any thoughts or experience on that?
I had Omega speakers before too, really nice. I did not test the REL subs with high level input and SET at the time because I did not have a SET amp. Low level input still sounds 95% of high level input so I personally would not lose sleep over it.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thanks Thomas!
thomas. I have focal 1000 iwlcr6 in wall L R and center. I want system to integrate well and be mostly hidden. I have a older rel t2 in white. I want to get new REL subs in white as well. I am first about music then second about HT. Which do you recommend for me. one t9 or two t5 or two t7. room size is 365 square feet. Let me know your thoughts
Thanks for the vid. While I might not spend the money for a REL, You definitely made the case for a subwoofer. Again - THANKS
I have the Klipsch rp-600m with one SVS SB1000 and they sound great together. Like you said the SVS Sealed sub blends seamlessly with the Klipsch musically (depending on the volume of the sub of course) It ticks all the points you mentioned. Even with only one sub i cant tell where the bass is comming from. Then there is also the discussion going sealed versus ported. Anyway Tx for all the great reviews , keep it up !
Thanks and congrats on your setup.
Hi Thomas, thanks for your reviews as always. In a small room do you feel 2 smaller t5is would be better than one t7i
The difference is more than just room size. The front firing driver of the t7i will give you more definition. Email Rel and ask them for suggestion which is the better way to go.
@@ThomasAndStereo thank you for taking the time to reply. I will do that and let you know
@@ThomasAndStereo I emailed REL and they recommended 2T5i over 1 T7i in my 16ft x 20ft room, but their website subwoofer finder recommended T7i. 🤔
Hey Thomas, how do these Rels compare to the older Martin Logan Dynamos you had? I have the Dynamos and found them to be quite good.
Yeah, the Rels are significantly better but that can be also because I have a pair now
@@ThomasAndStereo
😂 Having a pair is always good as the saying goes. I'll get another Dynamo to match. TY
Thanks Thomas. Would it be possible to use just one sub or would it make it uneven? I have the IOTAVX stack and there's only one sub out. I know you can get a splitter but sadly I just don't have the funds 😃
Oh you can add 2 subs with the IOTAVX cause it has preout. The PA3 also have preout output. Having said that, one sub is more than enough in most cases.
Nice video , To me phase matching is a must !! Thats why i uploaded a video on how 2 properly hook up a active subwoofer to an ampliefier with no Subwoofer rca output , When actually using high level input of the subwoofer with the amps B channel speaker output, this means I'm getting the same exact signal as the front full range speakers, then its up to the indiviual to tune in and tune out 😆 this VIDEO I uploaded got 82k views so far kind of shocked at that one , hopefully SANSUI AU 11000 coming soon 😆 Thanks Thomas always great videos !
Hey Tee-Jay, wow that video got a lot of views. Congrats. Looking forward to your impression on the Sansui AU11000
@@ThomasAndStereo thanks Thomas ,and yeah maybe i should of stuck with how 2 videos lol
@@ThomasAndStereo your shoutout about the 703s i reviewed got me about 200 subscribers also thanks Thomas , I have never asked any1 to subscribe but now i realise i should have all along to get loan lease agreements but the subscribers i do have are dam good subscribers i got lucky on that one
@@ThomasAndStereo Hopefully !!
I’ve actually decided to go without my REL S5 SHO. I just use it for Home theatre now as I felt it was blurring the sound a little. In a bigger room maybe but not in my room. It needs to go up front or it can be a tad localised and I dont have the space
Do you have any experience with REL S510?
Do you now use subwoofers in your sistem and if not why not?
I,m thinking of getting pair of rel s510 to support my stereo sistem..the only think that bothers me if the integration in my stereo system will be ok..
No I don't , sorry.
I just ordered a s/510 to pair with dynaudio special 40. John Hunter from REL himself recommended this model and so did Primare as I use a Primare i35 class D amp with the Danes.
What you wrote about what you like about subs is exactly what I am looking for !
Since I own the KEF LS 50 meta , I am in need of Subs!!
If your vibing with the KEF they just came out with an ULTRA small sub, the thing looks stinking cool. Its pretty freaking expensive though at 1500 dollars. It is however one of the sweetest pieces of design for its size I have ever seen, its tiny. The KC62 will match your speakers and they come in black and white.
I prefer ported subs for movies and sealed for music . I use a ported SVS 1000 something or other on a Onkyo RZ50 with Focal Chora 826D L & R with a center channel speaker . In my music room I use a Rotel 1592 MKII hooked up to Polk R700s with a REL Classic 99 . I love it like this . The Choras are great for accents or difficult to hear dialogue
Been thinking about these. Thanks for the review.
Does rel subwoofers are really good for music? Because I'm looking for one to pair with my wharfedale evo
REL is awesome! Thanks for this! SVS also good but maybe not as musical.
SVS is more of a ht sub but even factoring that in, many SVS owners move on to something better
Dear Thomas, Thank ´s for the amazing video. Now I ´m really interested in sub. I always thought I don ´t need one with my Dynaudio HS but I think they would bring dynamic into my system. My amp is a Hegel H390. Unfortunately there is only one output… So I have two question and hope you can help me. Is there a possibility to connect two subs to my system or what do I need for this? Second: Would one bigger REL be enough? Cheers Gerald
Yes you can if you have high level input on the sub like RELs and some other. One bigger or 2 smaller. Depends if you want balance or more kick.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thanks a lot for your fast reply Thomas. This really helps because I was wondering how I can connect two sups. So I will get the two T7. Makes more sense for my small room :)
Movie subs and music subs are two completely different categories for me, and I DEFINITELY prioritize music :)
I know a few guys who are the "shake my house to pieces type" though hehe
yeah, that is also fun.
One brand of subs that I rarely see reviewed or mentioned that people should look at are the Martin Logan Dynamo series. I have had a pair of the Dynamo 800X in one of my two audio systems for 7 or 8 months now and am very happy with them. They are in a music only system (Yamaha A-S 1100 amp, Yamaha CDS-1000 SACD/CD player, Yamaha WXC-50 pre-amp music streamer, Jamo Concert 8 loudspeakers on stands), and the vast majority of my listening is classical music and jazz. I suspect their performance is similar to the RELs, but they have some advantages. They only weigh about 28 pounds each so are easy to move around to where they sound best. They come configured as down firing, but you can detach and reinstall the feet with a screwdriver to make them front firing if needed or desired (I left them down firing). They also come with an Anthem software app that lets you make all the operational adjustments with a smart phone or tablet while sitting in your listening position via Bluetooth - phase, volume, low frequency volume, crossover frequency. It also comes with room correction software you can run. The adjustments needed to make a pair of subs disappear to the point that they are part of the overall sound but it's not apparent where their sound is coming from are very small. I find it very useful to be able to do it from the listening position where I was able to make tiny tweaks to each sub instead of having to crawl under the table where they sit, make a tiny adjustment, go back to the listening position and decide if it's better or worse than before.
I made tiny tweaks to the settings for a few days as I listened to more music, but I've never touched them again after the first 2 or 3 weeks. Another good thing about them is that they can be connected via either high level or low level connections. My amplifier only has one set of outputs for a sub and if I stream music via "Aux" on the amp, it bypasses the sub outputs. I have both subs connected high level via the bookshelf loudspeakers on stands, so the subs are always on when I'm playing any music. I have them in a relatively small room (about 12' by 15' with a 9 1/2 foot ceiling) and they're plenty. If you have a big room, there are bigger and heavier subs in the Martin Logan Dynamo series that come with the same software apps and high level connection capability. I bought my pair as open box items from an online dealer for a little under $550 each (discounted 25%) plus the cost of good cables.
I have one actually and they are good. Thansk for sharing your experience and long comment.
Do you prefer the REL or the Martin Logan sub for musicality, integration, etc? Thanks@@ThomasAndStereo
Thanks for your reviews as always. If it's possible to keep the REL's around a little longer I would love to hear your input on a direct comparison between a comparable SVS and Velodyne Sub (since those are often talked about). I know SVS at least has a 45 day trial, not sure about Velodyne.
Yes, eventually I will reach out to SVS. Having said that, Sean @ Zero fidelity already made the comparison with his video in case you have never seen it.
Hi there buddy. Amazing idea as always.
I would go ask for your advice or even your followers.
I have a old Sunsui G-3000. It’s low end old receiver. But it’s a near mint condition. I want to bring it to my bedroom for light listening. It’s only 26 watts at 8 ohms and maybe about 40 at 4 ohms. Now I only space for a set of small bookshelves speakers or even monitors. I was wondering witch speakers can you recommend for this receiver being it’s low wattage.
Thanks for any advise and help
Wow, 26 watt will require a decent efficient pair of speakers. Perhaps RP600M or Triangle? Truth is with both speakers, I drove it with at least 50w so I would not know how it will perform with low power amp.
Thomas apparently Rel dont do well with Dirac calibration.... Rel confirmed this via email to me and said manual setup was better, can you confirm this? :)
Hello Thomas!!
Need some expert advice from you my friend.
Which subwoofer out of JL Audio E110 and Rel T9X would be better suited for 2 channel listening.
I listen to more of Techno. So I definitely want it to be fast and punchy.
I think the E110 will go much deeper where the Rel lacks more of depth... Just saying.
i want the subwoofer to disappear with my Focal Chora 826 being used with the NAD C388.
Room size is 20 x 18
Thank you in advance.
There is a bit of contradiction in what you are asking for. You want it to be punchy and get your want it to disappear and not hear it. REL subs are fast, very fast but it is more about adding information than adding punch. You will not hear your REL subs.
@@ThomasAndStereo okay, I get what you are saying..so I have to decide weather I want the added information or the punch.
Thank you!
Damn you Sean and Thomas!
I just picked one up yesterday. Teamed up with my KEF LS50 Limited Black Edition and Denon PMA 1600NE integrated amplifier and PC as source(office system)
Congrats! How is it? Play with the crossover, forget looking at the specs of the kef ls50. Just experiment with it. If you use the high level input, check out the videos on how to connect cause it is different between class ab and class d as well as class ab differential amps.
@@ThomasAndStereo Well I've had them running in for 15 hours now, did the manual setup procedure. My wife and I share this hobby and we were both pleasantly stunned by its capability(I was laughing out loud and giggling like a grade school kid!). Very articulate, deep, organic bass presentation. Love how it gives weight to pianos, vocals and spatial cues. Yes I did make sure to connect properly. I've watched almost all REL videos before taking the plunge.
@@RKB900 What a great story. I am so happy to hear it and congrats. My friend tried it with his Raidho D1, ($28k+ cdn) speakers with diamond woofers and he said these REL subs work really good with his speakers.
@@ThomasAndStereo That's really impressive Thomas! My other system is the Cornwalls and my main 2 channel rig has Magnepan 20.7's. Not sure if the little T7i can help those out due to the 15 inch bass drivers and large spaces they both occupy, but I may experiment to find out. All in fun this hobby! I wanted to create a lower(ish) end system, midrange and all out assault. If you are ever in Alberta let me know.
@@RKB900 Please share how it sounds with the larger speakers!
Thomas, you’ve inspired me to add subs! Can you tell me what your ‘crossover click setting’ is on your stereo rels? Just curious...everyone’s room is different and their speakers but still. I have8000fs so wanted to know how you’re blending them. Thanks!
Sorry, I no longer have them so I don't remember the settings.
@@ThomasAndStereo Is there a reason why you got rid of them sir?
@@zeke937 Have you seen the amount of gear at my home!😂 I have truck loads of gear shipping in for more reviews. Check out the video 'why I don't do negative reviews' and you will see my hidden storage room.
Hello friend. Is Rel t7i an active or passive subwoofer? Thanks a lot for the response 💗💗💗
Active
Great video Thomas. I would have put flat frequency response and depth (F3) in this list around #2 and #3. Why? Most subs in the sub $1,000 USD range are either one note wonders, meaning their frequency response looks like a mountain rather than a plateau. Or they have an F3 above 32Hz. If a sub does not have an F3 of less than 35 Hz, what's the point? Unless your speakers have an F3 above say 55Hz the sub is not adding enough to justify the cost, space and complexity of adding it. That said I'm a HUGE fan of 2.2 systems. You can focus your spend on 4 high quality speakers rather than quantity. Keep the videos coming.
Check the frequency response on the Rythmik L12 and F12 -
Also Thomas you mentioned that if you just want chest pounding you don't need rels. And that you demand 'more'. But my question is, do these small dual rels really pound your chest like a bigger sub can? If you said you want something 'DIFFERENT' that makes sense. But more? Have you tried well made dual 18s and compare the power to these small rels? Btw i am not saying rel is bad I am just saying if you have compared them to bigger subs that are very well made. You mentioned you wish they dug deeper and I think bigger subs (bigger than rel makes) would do that well without breaking the bank. I think they would give you a greater feeling of tactile bass and even more prescence and space in the sound than these smaller rels. Consider sealed PSA, rhythmiks (servo subs) or JTRs at no less than 18 inches. I bet you if you do this you will make it a permanent part of your setup (or at least leave them in place for a long time).
Have you tried the JL Audio Dominion d108 and d110, tried one in a shop and was impressed, small subs with controlled sound, could rival the Rel?
No I have never. Hopefully one day.