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A point of view from random nobody... I've been sitting in PF every day since this raid came out and all of my experience can be described as "Formed PF -> about 3 wipes -> 1 person leaves -> half the raid sheeps and leaves as well -> rinse and repeat until PF leader just disbands whole thing". I like the fight and want to clear it, but the experience i have is very discouraging. At this point i should either lie about my progress and join kill parties or just abandon whole idea of doing this raid. This is definitely not Extreme level fight, but rather Savage. As something that should be clearable by the group of random 24 players, i think they overtuned it a bit. If you have people around you that you can gather and just prog-prog-prog until it's dead, good for you, and you're gonna have different opinion on this content. But as i stated in the beginning, for a random nobody it's... not that good.
thats the problem with ffxiv for a long time, if u have a static or even alliance raid kind of static ur good and cared for but for PF? its horrible by design to make such a fight with 24 ppl in mind
The main issue is lack of accountability, which was exactly the same issue BA and DRS had. People who have no idea how the game is played join and hope to sail by unnoticed. In Eureka/DRS they barely do any damage and spend half the instance on the floor, and can't solve any mechanics without having someone specifically tell them in voice what to do. In 8 man content these people are way more visible and are kicked on sight. The same is happening here, 20 people's time being wasted because 4 people who can't beat extremes without dying join without looking at the linked strat and grief non stop.
Same experience. I just don't understand joining, realizing its hard and then leaving. The only way to learn these fights is communication with the community and practice practice practice. 3 pulls in, you're not going to learn something. That goes with people knowing the fight, and then leaving when people wipe. Your knowledge can really help people, and the more people we have prog, the more clears we will have.
This is mainly an NA/EU problem mainly (cannot speak for OCE) Although I mainly speak of Mana DC, I am not sure how Elemental works. As someone played on all 3 this is very common on all raids in EU/NA The PT leader's PF is disrespected continually. In JP there is many "2 wipes disband", regardless what, it is 2 wipes disband. Not 1 wipe disband, not 3, it's 2. If you do not abide from the PF rules, expect to get blacklisted by 23 people and get less chance at getting PF. So here we stick strongly to what the PF says ... if PF does not say "2-3 wipes disband etc" which is a lot, there is no rules to stick so higher chance people leave after 1 wipe.
It is also astounding that streamers have the most disconnected opinions of content drops versus the experience of the average player. It’s like if you see the world only in rose tinted glasses, you believe that’s the only experience to truly exist.
The fight design is very good and fairly simple yet PF is literally a barrier. I’ve learnt that the average person in this game just has no patience and can’t grasp simple mechanics
As long as PF keeps doing the thing where half the party abandons after 2 wipes, those people are never going to clear. The fight isn't _that_ hard -- floor two Savage at most, some Extremes are harder than that -- but it does require both coordination and respecting the mechanics, neither of which EN PF is historically good at. It especially wasn't helped on day 1 when it felt like a lot of people were coming into the fight expecting Alliance level difficulty, completely unprepared for the EX/Savage the fight actually is.
I've been in "clear" groups for around 8 hours or so and its miserable. Given thats just how my experience is with almost all high end content but I genuinely think P3/tiles whatever you wanna call it is just too much for PF. The final kick is swaps into second towers is always the hard stopping point as even if my groups can recover its never enough dps to actually clear. If it stayed around the same difficulty as diamond prog I would 1000% love this content but as it is I can do tiles but its just not fun and getting a group together knowing you mostly likely will not clear is demotivating as can be. For anyone that says to join a static btw, I dont enjoy them. I want content that is challenging but I can hop into. I dont enjoy keeping to time schedules like its a second job. PF has its issues but its more fun to just hop in.
Revisiting this as it has been a few days. Took me around 40-50 from start to get the clear and since then I have cleared multiple times. Gotten a Dais mount and multiple gear piece while also helping newbies. I can confidently say I do in fact LOVE this content..... when Im clearing it. The problem is that even on reclears groups its miserable as I can only seem to clear the fight maybe 1/10 pulls. Closer to 1/20 or less is more accurate including "clear ready" groups. This may be due to the fact that since people are really incentivized to help others players that didnt truly earn or understand the content when clearing got dragged through or its just that rough. Probably both. The bonus is absolute garbage too. It can last as little as two hours and you have zero way of knowing what data center it is on at any moment. And what is the reward for bonus? 8 extra demi 1's that are rng distributed. So you could get eight awesome! or zero demi's! no awesome. Why would SE make this garbage system instead of just giving an extra demi 1/2 to each member idk but it sucks booty. I also havent seen anyone confirm it boosts mount/hair/minion drop rates in coffers so yeah. My suggestion is firstly reduce the amount of people in tower by one each. So three people towers need two people and two people towers need one person. Aside that take away the stupid eyeball lazers on A/C team and I think the fight is almost perfect difficulty wise. Reward wise fix the stupid random bonus nonsense and thats probably enough too.
Going to be honest, I went from being really excited to do some "harder than dungeon" difficulty content to "I don't want to log in anymore" real fast with this. I'm no Ultimate raider, I've been around a good while and cleared my Savages and Extremes, but dealing with 23 other blind people and varying speeds of learning is NOT an enjoyable experience. I don't have any issue with people learning faster or slower, but when you can explain to someone exactly how to solve something and they can still repeatedly fail it leading to wipes... nah I'm not inflicting that on myself. I'd love my clear but I want to learn the rest of the fight and understand the mechanics, not join the raidplan groups and ruin one of the only things I enjoy in the game anymore. As always, People debuff.
If anything I'm thankful to Chaotic. I've been pushed so far away with this, I decided to take break and come back once new Xpac will be announeced. There simply isn't content for me to enjoy. There is lots of content in this game, but for me personally, there is none. I've been playing since 3.0 and I at this point, I'm finally having courage to stop.
Streamers and content creators really do have skewed view of hard content. This raid in PF is either a trainwreck or auto pilot, with no in-between. Content creators don't have this problem since they can just static or with their audience. They don't have to deal with the common reality of the average player.
So very true, sadly. They praise the high end content as something fun and what the game needs yet dont take into consideration what the average player has to deal with. I've spent more time progging pf slots then the fight itself.
This is fucking horrible for anyone who doesn't know 23 other decent players. I feel like the streamers/youtubers will have a tainted view of this fight because most of them went into the fight with 23 good players.
This. Not sure what to call it, "community confirmation bias"? It's like the mythical town where every man has an above average D and this gives them all a warped perception of what "average" or "normal" is.
@SubduedRadical toxic positivity. Usually Mr Happy has balanced takes but this makes him out to be glazing the hell out of endgame content after glazing the last endgame content last month. Never thought he'd be this out of touch with regular players but then again, all he does is Hunts and whatever is the newest latest thing.
No one is stopping you from joining one of the several Discord servers that have already popped up dedicated to building a community for this content, you don't need to personally know 23 other players.
@@Riyshn If the game requires Discord to complete content then it's not casual friendly. Plain and simple. Not everyone is cool with Discord because of what is on that platform to begin with.
I nearly spit out my drink when i found out the limited time bonus only gives 2 extra demimateria to 8 random people from the 24. Who's room temp IQ idea was that?
Mr. Happy, let's be real. After the hype dies down, this will be unplayable on PF as the fill time will become unbearably long and this content WILL only be realistically accessible for discord communities like BA and DRS are currently. PF is already rife with people leaving after a few pulls, derailing the entire raid. At least until it gets powercrept enough in future expansions to low-man farm it.
@@MrMiQT Criterion can't be unsynced because it doesn't interact with normal Duty Finder and its settings. Chaotic in theory could, but it's a matter of if they would, or if they'll force level sync like they do with Ultimates.
I think they missed the mark with body checks and how fast mistakes snowball, with this many people it needs to be more save-able to progress because pf has literally zero patience, can’t even make it past 20 minutes of an instance without somebody leaving in a fresh blind post. Like it feels bad for our static in b alliance to do everything right and still wipe because of another team
You laid out perfectly why this is a fail. At least if we assume this its supposed to pull new people into more difficult content. In the end it will be just savage statics waiting forever for two other savage statics to join their pf to breeze through it. Discord content if lucky. I literally know noone who doesnt do savage who is suddenly interested in this after either hearing of or themselves experiencing smashing their face against this content for hours. So, idk really who this was made for. Savage pros complain about having to rely on and failing cause of worse players and worse players dont feel a difference between this and regular savage other than feeling more shit and anxiety for dragging down 23 rather than seven other people. This is like worse pf content for the average player than actual savage cause what is harder than finding seven patient people to learn with? Finding 23.
@@cuppy666 We call this "Mass Punishment" in the military. It was actually shown to demoralize and create divisiveness within the ranks, so it was done away with over a decade ago.
@@thenameisalreadyused5046 spitting mad facts here. If an average player can't even do Savage with 7 other people, what hope do they have in getting 23 patient other people? It's just a worse experience then just doing Savage, at least there you're a liability to 7 people not 23. If their goal here was just get regular people into harder content, then this experiment has failed. In a month or 2 it'll just be the same savage raiders doing the content for Bis as per usual.
I love the idea of a chaotic alliance raid but I think this needs some serious iteration. Biggest issue is the difficulty. I work and have a family. Though I’ve done savage and ultimate in the past I simply don’t have time to sit in pf and prof a fight for five hours. So for me, other than ex’s, Dawntrail has no content for me to do. I think a sweet spot for difficulty for something like this would be between a normal alliance raid and ex trail. Easy enough to be pugged in a reasonable amount of time (especially with 23 other people), hard enough to be something to actually sink your teeth into.
PF hell is real. Gotta add to this that I do this as a Tank and I'm having a blast, having to manage my cooldowns for not only TBs and heavy attacks but also for Auto Attacks, especially in Phase 1 due to that debuff that makes autos increases their damage feels great. It's not new technically, but we haven't seen something like that in a long time, so I appreciate it. It's certainly more engaging as a tank than the Arcadion savage for comparaison. My biggest concern is I feel the bonus demi-materia based on first timer is kind of backward. I feel the raid should give 2 per clear + 1 per first timer instead of 1 + 2. I understand the idea of wanting to help new players, but the raid is very difficult and pf unfriendly (especially the tile phase) that I think a lot of people will just want to farm with people who cleared, but then it becomes a 1 per clear and that feels terrible, as you'd need up to 75 clears for that mount, especially in a few months when most people doing it will be people that already cleared. I hope I'm wrong though and time will tell. Regardless, I'm glad this content exists, and I hope they continue to work on more and improve on the formula.
Facts bro, it’s content creator, content. Not everyone has 20+ skilled players to pull from on a given day to clear this. Sounds like PF is having fun with this 😂.
@@Fndlord being in an active FC or Cross World LS could help these things; you can have a base of 15-20 players and then fill the rest. The player base is very spread out into cliques/and FCs that are more social environments. Even so, this is not mid-core content this is an Extreme/1-Savage needing more players essentially making it hardcore. Casual players still struggle with some Jeuno's mechanics, but you can get carried though certain things, I expected something slightly harder than shadow lord with some additional mechanics like when he splits into 3 make each party fight a copy + smaller cleaves
Maybe it's jp dc privileges but I was able to go from fresh into farming it just last weekend. I guess it helps that there is now basically only one strat here with no variations.
I REALLY feel what you said with how they should swap the release shedule for this and the new bozja/space exploration. I'm someone who doesn't do any content that isn't casual, i don't do savages, i don't do extremes, so this .5 patch feels like it's just nothing for me. There's the new custom delivery NPC, but that's all i get for the next three months until 7.2, and i don't think bozja/exploration are coming out there either, and it makes the patch feel really bad for people like me
I feel like this is going to have massive growing pains of people trying to do this in Party Finder, a lot more-so than usual given it’s about savage level and having to manage 24 players. I’m still happy this content exists, and I want to start getting into it, but my only concern is that it’ll have hardly anyone participating in a month by the time a lot of the hype has died down. I’d love to be wrong, but seeing people express how hellish it’s being to pug seems quite telling. I do agree that people overthink a lot of the hardcore content a ton of the time. It may not be for everyone, but failure is the best teacher, as a wise man once said. That or I’m giving too much credit to players to have that sort of discipline.. Only time will tell, I suppose.
I think it's a great fight. I've cleared it a few times now. However I know too well that a lot of people struggle with hard mechanics and thus here we are. With most PF's wiping constantly, little to no progress and people leaving (no patience whatsoever). If theres one thing SE needs to nerf. It's the body checks. That's it. Leave everything as it is. Just make it so a few deaths will not completely wipe the raid during towers. Cause a 24 man body check is ridiculous. We already have a savage tier. We don't need another.
The body check is already not as bad because you dont wipe on 1-2 failed towers. Its other things that wipe out the groups and cause snowball into death.
Honestly savage is mid level... It kinda feels like people think any content that requires you to activate your brain = hardcore. I think both criterion and savage are very midcore.
@@MarcusMaybenot Absolutely, problem is, you have extreme or casuals trying this out the first time and it’s immediately too hard for them thus we must label this content “dead” . 🤣
@@MarcusMaybenotthe problem is the majority of people who play XIV will *never* play savage content. It's nice to have more 24-man options but savage content just isn't for most people, and they keep releasing it. It's not even about difficulty, just statistics. They're releasing more content that's useless to most players because most players won't actually play it. It's why people want real midcore content. It would be a good way to ease people onto savage, and encourage more people to do harder content they aren't doing right now.
I think the +2 per first timer is a bit ridiculous honestly. It's a bit too much of a ravine between people who do it day 1 (lol which is on christmas eve lol wow great timing) vs people doing it in a week or two when they have time. It just seems like it feels bad honestly. Imagine if an extreme gave you 50 tokens if you cleared with 8 new people vs 1 when nobody is new. It just seems wrong.
IMO they should have just made it count for your weekly first clear, that makes it where the bonus is there long term for new players and makes doing it long term fine as well since you can farm out items to sell.
The extra drops dont really matter if you want all rewards. You only get extra rewards for first clearers you can use on one mount and the hairstyle. Both can also drop. You will need to farm the raid dozens of times if you want the other mount (which can probably also drop but gl with that). By the time you have the 99 tokens, you will also have the other things for sure.
@@Cloudo4 Not exactly, maybe right now sure you'll probably have it but what about in the future? Say a month, a patch, an expansion, ect. If you get the DC bonus and don't win the mount for DM1 then it would take 25 clears which is not even close to enough to buy the DM2 mount and hair.
got the clear earlier on today in PF. the fight is really good fun but i agree with other comments that PF is a nightmare for this fight, specifically the 24 man towers, i hope it’ll improve after the holidays and more guides come out for the fight
So I managed to kill it in PF and it’s been a week now. The number of PF has gone down by a lot and getting 24 people is just to much… I wouldn’t be surprised if this is dead content by the end of the month.
I want to love this content and I’ve spent probably 15ish hours progging since drop. The HARD limitation is PF. Trying to get 24 folks who want to stay and put in the hard work to make progress, but instead 95% of my experience has been leaves after 2 wipes and then we lose half an alliance. There needs to be a better way.
I learned most of the fight's mechs from other players in-instance since the raidplan used in NA is currently pretty awful But yeah the real hurdle here is keeping 24 people together long enough to get used to eachother
he is quite delusional towards his points of view most of people ain't even care that much about raiding BUT would have lots of fun doing the Medcore raids / activities while this garbage will be on life support by few weeks on closed discords.
@@-cat-.. You dont even have to get used to anyone. There are no complicated tank swaps or insane damage incoming that needs specific mitigation plans. People just need to take their role and do what the raidplan says.
I would take the 30 seconds to type in the url on my smartphone. Capital letters matter, so you may have to try twice for things like j vs J. (The goog doc links are too long for this, of course.)
This is literally the worst content they added into the game. The fight itself is very fun and quick, which I like. The party finder experience is hell though. I have done everything till now in statics and in PF (ultimates, savage, extremes, etc.) but nothing feels as bad as this fight. Having the possibility of one single person wiping the whole raid is bad. Even now on day 3 the parties start to fill up slower and slower. People who have never seen the pvp tiles go into kill parties and grief 23 other people. It's just a really bad experience and I don't see myself farming it in PF. It took me my whole day in kill or reclear parties to get ONE SINGLE kill... that's ridiculous. And I am not gonna start about the reward system.
I don’t really understand why Square Enix is adding new savage content. Even though savage difficulty wasn’t initially planned, casual players will never engage with such challenging content that requires participating in a Party Finder. Why didn’t they just take the opportunity to create new content slightly harder than the game’s standard difficulty-something balanced between normal and extreme? I know that for experienced players, extreme is considered midcore, but for the majority of casual players, anything that fundamentally requires participation through PF, and can only be cleared with hours and hours of progression and collaboration, only benefits a small niche portion of the community. The game already had a savage raid in the previous patch, a new extreme fight, and an ultimate in 7.1. Now, in 7.15, we get another savage content, offering great rewards but appealing to very few players. This content will likely end up as deserted as Variant and Criterion dungeons, especially since it requires finding 24 people to clear it. That alone complicates the challenge, which is already way too demanding for 24-player content. I really think the concept of the fight is good, but once again, it caters to the same minority of players while casual players are left out, despite the drought of content in 7.1. A 24-player raid, a dungeon, and tribal quests aren’t enough to keep people engaged. So why add content that doesn’t even have an accessible version for the general player base? Why cater only to the 10-15% of players doing savage and the 1% doing both savage and ultimate? Preventing regular and casual players from accessing this fight by making it excessively difficult and Party Finder-dependent is a mistake they shouldn’t have made for new content. This decision will condemn it to a quick death-nobody will engage with it anymore a month from now.
The condemned in a month is my exact feelings for this and Criterion too. Like whose really going to play this stuff for long? The casuals certainly won't, the hardcore ones will dip once they get their stuff. This type of content is deader than Eureka and one will ever play it later if it's only synced. V&C being synced still after 6mos into a new expansion basically makes that content Perma dead.
I tried the fight out last night and the mechanics aren't much more difficult than extreme. I would say it's almost easier because there's a lot of solo responsibility and if you die over and over you can still get through if everyone knows what they're doing The main difficulty though comes from the amount of players Everyone's already echoed the sentiment in the comments. But I think genuinely casual players can do fine in this raid. Just gotta get over the mental hurdle and intimidation
@@shiburu You can only get carried in phase 1. As soon as it goes to towers etc. you will most likely wipe the group sooner or later. In best case such people are in group A because the rezz point after falling is on the west side. If you are supposed to be somewhere else and fall down or whatever, you are just missing.
Omg yes, I had one co heal tell me to esuna the dooms (day 1 before we realised we shouldn't really have any dooms) bottom to top "like in tea"... I didn't say anything but turned to my partner to rant like oh yes ofc, tea, that thing absolutely everyone has done 🙃 I've healed savages and heal for ex farming but haven't touched an ult and was just like... Idk guess a weird flex 😅 was almost glad when one person left and that pf fell apart
The new player bonus flat out will not work. Why would I bother taking 8 times as long to kill then fight when I'd get more materia just clearing instead?
...Why does the Stygian Shadow cast lasers from the front first when the mechanic is called "Lateral-core Phaser"..? Shouldn't that mean that it fires to the sides first? Is this another Kelpie situation, or am I stupid?
fight is fun, but the prog in pf was some of the worst i did, specialy near the end. people leaving after 1-2 pulls. maybe helpers looking for easy bonus going to try their luck in a diffirent party after 1-2 pull. it was really frustrating.
After like 20 hours of pf hell i got 2 clears. One day 2 and one day 3. I think it will be a full few weeks before pf becomes not painful. That said I love the fight. I love all the pvp mechanics. I love how people actually chat while filling because there's 24 people to talk to instead of 8 I do think towers should be less punishing but for the first of it's kind it's a great start and I'd love to see a lot more raids like it in the future.
I like how they are adding different group sized hard contents. They added 4 man criterion dungeons in previous expansion and now they add 24 man. Previously we were always stuck to 8 man hard content. I think its a good thing to see different group sized high end content.
they clearly misunderstood what players wanted for hard 4 man content though. criterion is not prog content. hence why players dont use it and had negative reviews.
@@ZelosSama what was wrong with Criterion? I haven't done it or really looked into it, what didn't people didn't like about it and how should it have been?
@familiarstranger2080 no worthwhile rewards..... people wanted another 4 man hard content to progress with gear and stuff. harder and repeatable version of already existing version akin to mythic + in wow. Instead we got 3, hard dungeonbut with little rewards that player didnt really care about in the end.
The issue with this is that alot of player are not at ex skill level. This fight is above that. I cleared savage and can pick thing up pretty fast. But many dont even know what to do with a flare marker. I still se people run away with stack markers. Many time my alliance would be the only one up when phase 2 starts and thats most because partical beam didnt wipe us the the other 2 team being down. You can do everything right and still wipe due to other. Any issue PF had with 8man content is 3x an issue in 24 man. So now not only do you have to wait on your team to get it right but now 16 other player have to also get it right. Many of which first time raiders. Whats going to happen is raider are going to gatekeep this not take in new player, farm bonus time, then sell the rewards to player that cant do it.
i fear the difficulty of it makes it above the level of the average PF participant which makes it yet another niche fight and at this point i have to wonder what on earth are they thinking to release back to back to back high end fights leaving the majority of the playerbase with nothing to do thank you for the breakdown your view points are always appreciated
Agree, they've been steadily releasing more high-end content that's gating players who prefer content hard enough to be able to do stuff through DF. I've been longing for them to make Alliance raids chaoticly hard like the old ones were during their time too.
This expansion will see the return of Field Ops contents (terms for Eureka and Bozja), and it is in later patches I think. They arent doing the EW crap again. Honestly previous expansion x.1 patch has always been a low point, and this content fixed that.
I’ve cleared anabaseios (my first tier), tea and dsr in pf but even combining all the memes and prog liars I’ve had to endure, they don’t compare to the 3 hours of “prog” I’ve had on this fight. At least when going into savage/ultimate most people are somewhat receptive to explanations and strats, but seeing people die to every single mechanic on p1 over and over again and needing to explain what tank swaps are to every co-tank I’ve had just made me give up on this completely. Which is a shame because it seems like it could be fun if you’re able to gather 23 other competent players.
First thing, i was kinda disapointed that chaotic turned out to be a single fight, i was really hoping they would make a version of CT and ST closer to their original difficulty, since they refuse to ilvl sync them. Once you get past that what really turned me off from this was that its Cloud of Darkness, again. I didnt like it the first time around, nor every couple of days when I get it in Alliance Raid roulette. And then as you say at the end, the timing just feels off. Bringing this in the same patch as Ultimate, instead of something more casual like the exploration zones, has made it feel like the patch is massively weighted towards a specific portion of the playerbase.
It was supposed to be midcore,yet she's throwing out attacks worse then brute fuckin bomber.This is DEFINITELY not for casual-Mid players I'm sorry but after a few weeks this is gonna be more dead then criterion.
@@Cloudo4 I have a memory disability and can't handle the overly flashy visuals. This fight has so much going on visually I can't even see what is happening 99% of the time.
Mr Happy: "Let me know what your thoughts are", viewers proceed to give their feedback on the content and just about every comment is getting harrassed by others for giving their two cents - literally what was being asked in the video. Not putting any blame on Mr Happy but this is why giving any feedback is difficult. People will do anything to silence you if you don't think the same way as others and criticism is tantamountable to a federal crime. Comments being critical of this content are being deleted instantly. Could hold a feedback forum, live, in-game for honest engagement straight from actual players, and turn it into a stream.
The fact we have to wait so long for exploratory content really sucks. I haven't been unsubbed so long since the launch of an expansion and I'm honestly considering just not even bothering anymore. What are they thinking over at SE right about now?
@@SinisterPlauges It's called SE is abandoning the casual playerbase that made this game a success by giving us barely any content while focusing on the 1% that do hardcore content. Keep doing that...let's see what happens when the average players who keep this game alive all say forget it...we're done. I've played 11 years and I am pretty much over it with how anemic the content schedule is while they focus on raiders.
> Let me know what your thoughts are It'll be dead content in two weeks. Didn't resub for it and don't care. The only feedback SE listens to are dollars and cents.
Then what sort of thing would you want SE to change/add in/etc that could change you current view on the game, if there's anything that could change your view at this point?
I think the timed bonus can work very well once there are more of these. I'm imagining three different chaotics, one of which has a bonus at any given time so that youre incentivized to do that one even if the gear rewards are now outdated.
My biggest issue is that this should be available in the duty finder and difficult enough that's it the most difficult thing in the duty finder. It would be nice if it was something someone could jump into without the need of using the party finder and dealing with that.
PF is a huge problem with this fight. I can clear all 4 fights in savage in 2 or 3 weeks in PF but this fight is awful haven't even seen past phase 1 once. You wait a long time for the group to fill from what I seen the amount of time before someone leaves is usually around 20 min or so that isn't enough time to figure out phase 1 or get a sense to how it works. But after one person leaves it causes a cascading effect of a bunch of other people leaving then you are back in PF with the same group with most people already left or you a looking through every single group to see which one is most full to join. I feel like they can't have this degree of puzzle mechs on a 24 man. The fight design needs to be like the regular 24 mans with like higher dps checks or something. PF can not handle the amount of coordination this takes. The fight might be ok for a discord group but I would say like 1 in 50 groups in PF uses discord.
Another reason to use 6-tanks is because Crystal Tower was a 6-tank raid. Newer raids just make you bring 3, but you still needed 6 for the OG version.
Yoshi P needs to stop catering to the streamers and content creators. This content is designed for the 1% of the playerbase who enjoys this time of content. Meanwhile, the casual/average player has ZERO to do. If this is the direction the game continues to go...after 11 years I am out.
Hearing mister happy obtain 7 clears when the content has been out for less than a week makes us pugs second class citizens. PF is hell, there is no patience, and after about 4 hours, my furthest prog point has been brambles/tethers. I hope the pf mentality changes and people lighten up to getting clears.
PF experience: >Join group that manages to find 24 people >Someone's new and doesn't understand the mechanics >Wipe 3-4 times and party disbands >Rinse and repeat ad nauseam
I think the reason the gear is 730 and pretty much equal to Savage (with no clear advantages like extra materia slot, higher ilvl etc.) is Ultimate. FRU syncs to 735, to allow for the Savage weapon to have its materia work. If the gear from this were 735, it'd immediately throw FRU's balance into chaos (though it could be argued that PCT did that already), something that they usually don't have happen until the Ultimate is a bit older (it'll be done via gear from 7.3's dungeon, if the pattern holds, which is when the new Ultimate is likely to release) As for unlocking Savage, it'd be nice if they did, but as of currently it's the only source of 730/735 weapons. The upgrade to tome weapons still only drops in M3S on a weekly lockout, and we can't trade Jeuno coins/Hunt Nuts for it yet, so I imagine it's something to do with that. If it were up to me, I'd consider having an item that drops in Chaotic, that can be used to upgrade a 730 tome weapon to 735, like the last Criterion had in EW. Getting the base weapons would still be timegated, but it'd at least offer a new path to getting 735s until they do get unlocked
I wonder if they will downwards adjust some of the mechanics later, there's precedent in doing this with bozja and delubrum and those are similarly sync content. Even echo might make it viable?
It's worth bearing in mind that you are hardlocked in to doing the entire of the middle phase no matter how much damage you would do unsynced. Unless it turns out you can actually kill the adds they are almost guaranteed to live until 0.1% and you just have to play out all the hard mechanics until they go back to the boss. So unsyncing is very unlikely to be of much value for a very long time.
I wonder if they could adjust the rewards cost at a later time when there are less newcomer bonuses, similarly to how they adjusted the Bozja relic farm retroactively the further we got into the Shadowbringers life cycle 30:20
My single biggest issue is that Towers is a HARD barrier for how easily one can limp to phase 2. While I like that the early bit is a nice easy enough entry point, it ends up giving players a sort of false sense of progression where people who really don't know phase 1 are seeing phase 2 and so early phase 2 groups can't make any progress it feels like. I honestly feel like they needed to body check or maybe even a light dps check before the transition to phase 2 just to gate it a bit more. While I'm not a fan of overly relying on body checks, they do help gate progression which makes sorting into prog points in pf more accurate, and I feel like gating after transition rather then before is a big problem for a 24 man fight.
@@Ventus777777You are not wrong but on the other hand Thundergod is the fan favorite so I could see them make an exception just for that reason. Assuming they don't just abondon Chaotic and make one for each tier then they will have to think other bosses than the final one of the raid to not immediately run out of source material.
This content only proved to me, that FFXIV is no longer for me. Been playing from 3.0, and now It's finally time to stop. I'm destroyed, but perhaps it's for best.
I would rate this boss more difficult than extreme, most certainly on Savage level difficulty. And having to find new players after one or two wipes, doesn't help the progress.
I feel like this type of content is going to get a few dedicated discord servers to organize daily / weekly runs, just like Basdion arsenal For pepple struggling with getting pf kills that may be the way to go I mean to this day the BA server im in still does weekly runs and are always looking for new players to join
I am sorry but you are mis speaking... This fight is very difficult.. Combine the fact that you have 24 random people in the fight and the mechanics will kill almost everyone, at anytime.. You are not being fair with your evaluation of this fight.. in fact, in your stream where you were progging this, you died and got upset at others because of the mechanics.. Doom on almost everyone and the healers trying to save you? I like new content.. I like harder content, but SE has failed us when it comes to what they are really good at.. Good steady content.. Casual/to hard if you will. THIS is the player base.. not World's First... This fight will only last until the newness wears off then the average person coming through the story this time next year will be left out. que times are horrible with this now, can you imagine what they will be like a few months from now when people like yourself have moved on to the next thing that makes a video? SE needs to come back home to the roots if they want to be around another ten years.
I learned it long ago that if there is anything that you should ignore Happy's opinion on, its difficulty. Respectfully, anyone who even plays with the thought let alone saying it out loud in a podcast, that Savage is midcore should be immediately disqualified from further discussion about the topic of difficulty. Its borderline as dumb take as calling a grandmaster in a competitive FPS an average player just because Top500 exist. Happy is very knowledgeable on other things, but he can't grasp the fact that midcore content mostly ends when something is not doable with a random duty finder. The fine line of midcore content is Bozja critical engagements, CLL,Delubrum normal and Dalriada. Fights where you can mostly get by with pure intuition without any pre-assigned positions and borderline everything is salvageable while also you are bombarded with mechanics enough to not fall asleep, thats what midcore is. Not when boss cast "random bs go no1" and suddenly 4 people dies because someone somewhere had a debuff and looked the wrong way in the other side of the room.
@@tideash oh you all complained in this comment section when he called Endsinger too easy. He was on point back then and he is now. Not our problem you guys suck
@@Kasuta_Ikite Fine,ill bite. Did it ever occured to you that even that opinion of his about difficulty was wrong but people have moved on because the fight indeed got easier overtime? Maybe Endsinger was indeed too hard compared to any other x.0 endboss prior. The only reason you dont see the complaints now is that nowadays people have better gear for it and most teammate you get via roulettes are now people who did the fight, know what to do, have materias and even if all that fails, the echo still saves the day. During release,people had shiet gear,often without materia,did not have experienced teammates and had no echo. This does not change the fact that when you are comparing it to Hades, Shinryu or the bucketheads of heavensward, the base difficulty is indeed much harder. Even today, you will see first timer people dying left-right and center to the planets and most of them only dodge by following the big mass of people who are suddenly moving, not because they learn how the mechanic actually works. This barely happened in x.0 bosses before Endsinger even though the same "debuffs" are applied,like having shiet gear and without materia. Because during leveling, people dont really care. The difficulty spike in the trials of Endwalker was much higher than the difficulty spikes between the old expansions and people were not used to that. People who do hardcore content barely notice this, including Happy, so for them the complaints sound unwarranted. ALL this, however, does not matter in the slightest when we are still talking about a dude who essentially says that the preliminaries in the olympics are just casual matches. (saying savage is midcore) Its an unbelieveably stupid take.
@@tideash People cleared in pf so its midcore by your definition. What you describe as midcore is dungeon level difficulty. Thats easy, not midcore. And this fight is only midcore because the mechanics itself are piss easy. I might also have a different view than people who never do hard content but nothing in this raid is hard enough to call it hard. The only problem clearing it is relying on so many other people because most players (in any game) are simply shit at what they are doing.
I just cleared last night and wow. It's a very exciting piece of content but hooboy is it rough trying to do content like this with 24 random PF people consistently 😂
I did. I wanted Delebrum Reginae Savage or Baldesion Arsenal but without the needed grind for resources. Those two couldn't because the difficulty for them wasn't body checks but dps checks. DPS checks that would fail if too many people made mistakes / died.
@@Kasuta_Ikite That's cool but I think you're the minority bro cause I agree with the original comment. 24 man body checks is bullshit. Strict body checks should remain entirely in 8 man savage and ultimates.
@@Kasuta_IkiteThe opinions of you and your friends don’t sell games. They don’t pay subs to keep servers online. There are 100 dead MMOs that cater to you and your friends.
Maybe they need to call it an alliance trial. And just call the 8-man raids trials as well... Or just call all 8-man content trials and all 24-man content raids. Love that they are getting creative with the shape of the arena.
To my knowledge, there hasn't been ppl chasing the bonus at the moment... seen various bonus windows in Crystal, at home, but there was barely 3-4 parties. Then again maybe ppl could start seeking those as reclears become more common. But I doubt it.
It wasn't only the crafted hands for healer... The best available boots were NORMAL RAID boots! Not savage raid boots, not tomestone boots, NOT EVEN UPGRADED CRAFTED BOOTS! ALL OF THOSE HAD PIETY, THE ONE STAT THAT DOES NOT IMPROVE YOUR DAMAGE OR HEALING IN A MEANINGFUL WAY! Itemization is so weird...
they really said "fuck healers" this tier LOOOOOOOOOL that being said, going through pf the piety was probably needed because there was usually a dedicated spatula lmfao i'm a min piety healer and i'm having a lot of fun this expac though! i need to use my whole kit! it's great
This is horrific for people who don't do hardcore content. You literally cleared this within a few hours of PF. The rest of us are not that lucky. Let's clear this up. This is Hardcore content to people who don't do any endgame sweaty content. Most joined because it was presented as a way to get players who don't do hardcore content - proof is the boosted rewards for first time clears. There are a ton of people dropping from the PF due to the misleading advertising of this. The mechanics are just way too fast initially and Grim Embrace should have two different icons for front and back. We get that for a lot of different raids yet this is the first to omit it. People are just straight up killing each other. This is just some lazy content the devs threw out for hardcore players to farm. After having FRU release last month and then this, there is nothing for the 90% of the normal players to do in the game. And 7.2 isn't just around the corner. Locking the only decent looking gear behind this was an insanely terrible idea. We already lost out on actual battle armor looking gear from the PVP series for a fucking baseball glam coffer which is a first for PVP. So expect more people to RMT gil to purchase carries just like those who purchase Ultimate weapons. Also, this will promote the use of more plugins. Don't have to worry about World First bexause it's not that big of a deal but this will definitely increase cheating - like using the farther camera for seeing the arena. Your impression of this is from a hardcore players perspective when casual players have received absolutely nothing for farm content. This was such a bad move on SE's part and they even joked about overtuning it like our subscriptions and time is just something they can play fuck around with during the Holidays. This gear will be outpaced in about two months, so this is completely unacceptable.
@Kasuta_Ikite Really telling on yourself claiming two expansions in a row having only casual content and completely ignoring V/C Dungeons, Ultimates and Savages. This was the best retort you could muster? An ignorant reply that blankets two fantastic expansions as mid? Let me guess, you think DT is the best expansion ever in MMO history lol.
It’s a stressful fight in pf to the point the gear/and hairstyle not worth it even when a raid guide is out ppl still can’t do mechanics and clear it in pf
isnt there already a CoD minion, the puff of darkness? i also think people would farm content more if they could sell ALL the rewards, but then that leads back to the issue of not much to waste gil on, i usually hover around 1.5 mil but when the 7.5 mil hoverbike was added i made up the difference in about a week (thanks to crafting and the release of savage), since then ive been hovering at 6-7 mil again after spending the 7.5, and thats not including what my retainers are holding
Did clear. Didnt need discord. But the raidplan was almost necessary to get everyone on the same page. That being said, theres too many body checks. While a streamer gets to keep their party till the end, thats not how PF works. Phase 1 was perfect. Plus the minion drop is BS.
The party finders I tend to join nobody communicates everyone is silent and then the elite party finders some with threats. Like. You die instant kick lol whaaaaat!
Ok it's been out a few weeks now can says it's not been too bad, more fun than extreme obviously PF has issues but PF always does so that's more a community problem than this fight. But managed to get both mounts, sell some haircuts and gear up alt classes which otherwise would take ages with tomes (have all bis Savage stuff minus weapons). Although as a tank i saw Chaotic head had skilll speed, bought the aug tome ones with skill and then thought of the M1 earrings do lets mess with Skill speed builds on GNB but jumped in M1S didnt win em and just thought why is the raid tier still locked when im wanting to experiment with gear for FRU
if you’d allow unsyncing it, how would you ever run it synced afterward? with an extreme/savage you can still fill in pf for an old fight synced every now and then, or find a static doing old stuff, but getting 24 people in one place at the same time to sync the fight seems nigh impossible if the option to unsync it was there
Idk...seems like the opposite problem to me. If you can get in and clear now, great. But having a consistent group of people to run this 50+ times later when the new player bonus dries up is going to be horrendous. Even if they did an unsync next expac. You'll find a dedicated group of players to do one MINE clear easily enough. But 50? Idk fam.
I dipped my toe in it for about 40 mins on release, but my day was pretty busy and couldn't do much more. We did get to phase 2, but the group I was in was struggling to read the chat. Mechanics that were explained were being ignored by the 3rd of the alliance raid and only a few people were asking questions. My co-tank was trying to tell the main tank he'll provoke off the boss after a few debuffs stacks, but he was being ignored, and the MT kept dying. He finally did a bunch of sound effects in the party chat to get his attention after 30 minutes of progging. People please, read the chat. Its new content that requires coordination. You are a griefer if you stay in your own bubble thinking you'll just randomly pull through knowing half of the information like people can get away with in the normal alliance raids. Its not that kind of fight, so please be a teamplayer. You don't have to talk that much, but you DO need to speak up if something isn't making sense to you.
Very fun but this is the content where people are rabid. Ultimates and savage toxicity have nothing on this People also ahouldnt forget content creators also have that luxury of influence. Happy and Xenos ofc will have competent no life FFXIV only people on their team The average raider can barely walk without tripping over
Is it sad that as a person who is only as good as some easier extremes and normal content that I would like to do this? Because I get the feeling I will never get to this battle. I should note that I have technically cleared Sephirot EX and Sophia EX and easier extremes (I do consider Lakshmi EX as an easier extreme) but that’s it. I am also only at the end of Shadowbringers and have been playing for a year experiencing as many story and battles as I can stomach as my first MMORPG.
I think first time bonus have its value for long run in market bord yes its easy to get hair style now and sell in market bord but in long run it will be more rare and keep its value in market bord
I tried it on Christmas Eve and am one of the many players that does not do hard stuff. Will not try again. Let the hard core players that like extremely hard stuff all the time have it. I will stick to other stuff in the game.
I love this fight as bard, I get an excuse to cleanse people :D but oh boy we had 1 group disband cause person left, it was a pain to finally get a stable group thru PF.
Having No Requirements is a HUGE mistake. Last floor of Savage or some other checks because having EVERYONE join in a content where 1 player can wipe the other 23 its absolutely miserable. Saying this after losing hours to people unable to do Stack or Spreads on the first ADD mechanic.
@@carlobertolini7833 Sphene or the Second floor of Savage (lets not make it the 4th so its too "gatekeeping" (ignoring the fact that you might need over 50 clears for 1 mount, like most Extremes now) Any 10 min fight that requires your full attention, not your casual roulette where you can do everything wrong and still clear because the other 3 had an idea of what they were doing.
No. The only reason its more difficult for this Chaotic raid is because they overtuned it, at the difficulty they INTENDED no requirements would be more than fine. You also clearly didn't watch the video as he made it very clear that there are very, very few mechanics that an individual can fail to wipe the raid. Its more personal responsibility that kills you.
That seems a bit um. Defeatist? Anyone can learn savage if they want to. Anyone. Obviously not everyone is gonna enjoy it, but that's every content in the tame. The average player is a kind of vague mectric
Why can't they dedicate themselves to Savage? Outside of literal limitations like mental or physical disabilities / inconsistent daily schedule or low amount of free time, what is stopping "the average player" from dedicating themselves to Savage? I suspect the actual answer is a self inflicted mental block stopping people from even attempting Savage but I'm happy to be wrong if you'd clarify.
At this point, the biggest difference between an extreme fight and a first Savage fight is the rewards. EX3 this expansion is an unironically harder fight than M1S/M2S. The same's been true for almost every expansion, Endwalker the odd one out.
@@Jaxter0987 It's intimidating. You're joining 7+ people that have probably cleared, you gotta go in and learn the fight. Even learning parties will generally want you to not fuck up because the moment you do, you get flamed and ppl leave etc etc - granted that's my experience in the few savage fights I've tried. I won't touch savage fights after my few tries. I don't think I'm a bad player and I bet I could do the fights after enough tries but I don't like holding people back as I learn. It feels like you gotta get in on day #1 if you're looking to get it done because the expectation is that you know the fight 100% in PF.
@@Jaxter0987 Not really. I quit raiding as I noticed a major shift in the mindset and approach to it in Shadowbringers and Endwalker. I'm not bad by any means, but didn't vibe with the fact that the majority of people raiding now view savage as easy content and are much more harsh when approaching people who are new to it or aren't as experienced. Its not a mental block but rather a communal stigma and bias that has formed that many raiders simply do not have the mental capacity to understand anymore. Its simply not an environment I wanted to be involved with anymore if people are going to be so stubborn and frankly rude. Most raiders have grown accustomed to savage difficulty, for them that is their baseline for midcore content, but they fail to realize that savage for the vast majority of players is not baseline and is in fact the upper echelon of difficult, with Ultimate being so beyond their level of comprehension that it looks like someone is subjecting themselves to torture from an outside perspective. Think of it how a career politician will often be shocked at the living conditions and salary of an average working class family, having often assumed that 6 figures is a baseline for living (look it up, this is true in the US and most of the western world)-in a similar manner most raiders lack the ability to understand how difficult what they are doing actually is for the average player. Because it IS difficult and it is not at all midcore, as midcore difficulty doesn't truly exist in this game in any capacity. Its not a mental block for the average player but rather excessive expectations, a lack of patience and unwillingness to accommodate "lesser" skilled players from people who have stuck with raiding. The raiding community is insular and deluded in a way that it didn't used to be as there's this prevailing belief that "Savage is midcore content," which it absolutely isn't. For many its not the content that's an issue, but the prevailing mindset of career raiders that have pushed people away and set immediate expectations that are unattainable for the average player.
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A point of view from random nobody...
I've been sitting in PF every day since this raid came out and all of my experience can be described as "Formed PF -> about 3 wipes -> 1 person leaves -> half the raid sheeps and leaves as well -> rinse and repeat until PF leader just disbands whole thing". I like the fight and want to clear it, but the experience i have is very discouraging. At this point i should either lie about my progress and join kill parties or just abandon whole idea of doing this raid. This is definitely not Extreme level fight, but rather Savage. As something that should be clearable by the group of random 24 players, i think they overtuned it a bit.
If you have people around you that you can gather and just prog-prog-prog until it's dead, good for you, and you're gonna have different opinion on this content. But as i stated in the beginning, for a random nobody it's... not that good.
thats the problem with ffxiv for a long time, if u have a static or even alliance raid kind of static ur good and cared for but for PF? its horrible by design to make such a fight with 24 ppl in mind
The main issue is lack of accountability, which was exactly the same issue BA and DRS had. People who have no idea how the game is played join and hope to sail by unnoticed. In Eureka/DRS they barely do any damage and spend half the instance on the floor, and can't solve any mechanics without having someone specifically tell them in voice what to do. In 8 man content these people are way more visible and are kicked on sight. The same is happening here, 20 people's time being wasted because 4 people who can't beat extremes without dying join without looking at the linked strat and grief non stop.
Same experience. I just don't understand joining, realizing its hard and then leaving. The only way to learn these fights is communication with the community and practice practice practice. 3 pulls in, you're not going to learn something. That goes with people knowing the fight, and then leaving when people wipe. Your knowledge can really help people, and the more people we have prog, the more clears we will have.
yeah i tried it when it came out and spent 2 hours in pf for 20 minutes of actually doing anything
haven't tried since
This is mainly an NA/EU problem mainly (cannot speak for OCE) Although I mainly speak of Mana DC, I am not sure how Elemental works.
As someone played on all 3 this is very common on all raids in EU/NA
The PT leader's PF is disrespected continually. In JP there is many "2 wipes disband",
regardless what, it is 2 wipes disband. Not 1 wipe disband, not 3, it's 2.
If you do not abide from the PF rules, expect to get blacklisted by 23 people and get less chance at getting PF.
So here we stick strongly to what the PF says ... if PF does not say "2-3 wipes disband etc" which is a lot, there is no rules to stick so higher chance people leave after 1 wipe.
It is also astounding that streamers have the most disconnected opinions of content drops versus the experience of the average player.
It’s like if you see the world only in rose tinted glasses, you believe that’s the only experience to truly exist.
It’s literally ‘the wealthy get wealthier’
That’s been the games direction lately. Oh well.
The fight design is very good and fairly simple yet PF is literally a barrier. I’ve learnt that the average person in this game just has no patience and can’t grasp simple mechanics
As long as PF keeps doing the thing where half the party abandons after 2 wipes, those people are never going to clear. The fight isn't _that_ hard -- floor two Savage at most, some Extremes are harder than that -- but it does require both coordination and respecting the mechanics, neither of which EN PF is historically good at.
It especially wasn't helped on day 1 when it felt like a lot of people were coming into the fight expecting Alliance level difficulty, completely unprepared for the EX/Savage the fight actually is.
I've been in "clear" groups for around 8 hours or so and its miserable. Given thats just how my experience is with almost all high end content but I genuinely think P3/tiles whatever you wanna call it is just too much for PF. The final kick is swaps into second towers is always the hard stopping point as even if my groups can recover its never enough dps to actually clear. If it stayed around the same difficulty as diamond prog I would 1000% love this content but as it is I can do tiles but its just not fun and getting a group together knowing you mostly likely will not clear is demotivating as can be.
For anyone that says to join a static btw, I dont enjoy them. I want content that is challenging but I can hop into. I dont enjoy keeping to time schedules like its a second job. PF has its issues but its more fun to just hop in.
Summed up very nicrly, although i havent tried this fight yet this is what ive been seeing from many channels
Revisiting this as it has been a few days. Took me around 40-50 from start to get the clear and since then I have cleared multiple times. Gotten a Dais mount and multiple gear piece while also helping newbies. I can confidently say I do in fact LOVE this content..... when Im clearing it. The problem is that even on reclears groups its miserable as I can only seem to clear the fight maybe 1/10 pulls. Closer to 1/20 or less is more accurate including "clear ready" groups. This may be due to the fact that since people are really incentivized to help others players that didnt truly earn or understand the content when clearing got dragged through or its just that rough. Probably both.
The bonus is absolute garbage too. It can last as little as two hours and you have zero way of knowing what data center it is on at any moment. And what is the reward for bonus? 8 extra demi 1's that are rng distributed. So you could get eight awesome! or zero demi's! no awesome. Why would SE make this garbage system instead of just giving an extra demi 1/2 to each member idk but it sucks booty. I also havent seen anyone confirm it boosts mount/hair/minion drop rates in coffers so yeah.
My suggestion is firstly reduce the amount of people in tower by one each. So three people towers need two people and two people towers need one person. Aside that take away the stupid eyeball lazers on A/C team and I think the fight is almost perfect difficulty wise. Reward wise fix the stupid random bonus nonsense and thats probably enough too.
Going to be honest, I went from being really excited to do some "harder than dungeon" difficulty content to "I don't want to log in anymore" real fast with this.
I'm no Ultimate raider, I've been around a good while and cleared my Savages and Extremes, but dealing with 23 other blind people and varying speeds of learning is NOT an enjoyable experience.
I don't have any issue with people learning faster or slower, but when you can explain to someone exactly how to solve something and they can still repeatedly fail it leading to wipes... nah I'm not inflicting that on myself. I'd love my clear but I want to learn the rest of the fight and understand the mechanics, not join the raidplan groups and ruin one of the only things I enjoy in the game anymore.
As always, People debuff.
If anything I'm thankful to Chaotic. I've been pushed so far away with this, I decided to take break and come back once new Xpac will be announeced. There simply isn't content for me to enjoy. There is lots of content in this game, but for me personally, there is none. I've been playing since 3.0 and I at this point, I'm finally having courage to stop.
Streamers and content creators really do have skewed view of hard content. This raid in PF is either a trainwreck or auto pilot, with no in-between. Content creators don't have this problem since they can just static or with their audience. They don't have to deal with the common reality of the average player.
So very true, sadly. They praise the high end content as something fun and what the game needs yet dont take into consideration what the average player has to deal with. I've spent more time progging pf slots then the fight itself.
PF for this is a nightmare
Oh completely whew.
When is PF ever not a nightmare?
Good discords are going to be a godsend.
It is a good thing that the hairstyle and mount is tradable
Yep, if relying on 7 people wasn't enough relying on 23 randoms is just... Yeah...
This is fucking horrible for anyone who doesn't know 23 other decent players. I feel like the streamers/youtubers will have a tainted view of this fight because most of them went into the fight with 23 good players.
This. Not sure what to call it, "community confirmation bias"? It's like the mythical town where every man has an above average D and this gives them all a warped perception of what "average" or "normal" is.
@SubduedRadical toxic positivity. Usually Mr Happy has balanced takes but this makes him out to be glazing the hell out of endgame content after glazing the last endgame content last month. Never thought he'd be this out of touch with regular players but then again, all he does is Hunts and whatever is the newest latest thing.
there's no reason this fight can't be done in PF. People need to be patient
No one is stopping you from joining one of the several Discord servers that have already popped up dedicated to building a community for this content, you don't need to personally know 23 other players.
@@Riyshn If the game requires Discord to complete content then it's not casual friendly. Plain and simple. Not everyone is cool with Discord because of what is on that platform to begin with.
I nearly spit out my drink when i found out the limited time bonus only gives 2 extra demimateria to 8 random people from the 24. Who's room temp IQ idea was that?
Whoa, that's useless. Just remove it
Mr. Happy, let's be real. After the hype dies down, this will be unplayable on PF as the fill time will become unbearably long and this content WILL only be realistically accessible for discord communities like BA and DRS are currently. PF is already rife with people leaving after a few pulls, derailing the entire raid. At least until it gets powercrept enough in future expansions to low-man farm it.
I would agree but it’s confirmed that Criterion Dungeons cannot be unsynced….so I don’t see that happening for CAR either :/
@@MrMiQT Criterion can't be unsynced because it doesn't interact with normal Duty Finder and its settings. Chaotic in theory could, but it's a matter of if they would, or if they'll force level sync like they do with Ultimates.
I think they missed the mark with body checks and how fast mistakes snowball, with this many people it needs to be more save-able to progress because pf has literally zero patience, can’t even make it past 20 minutes of an instance without somebody leaving in a fresh blind post. Like it feels bad for our static in b alliance to do everything right and still wipe because of another team
You laid out perfectly why this is a fail. At least if we assume this its supposed to pull new people into more difficult content. In the end it will be just savage statics waiting forever for two other savage statics to join their pf to breeze through it. Discord content if lucky.
I literally know noone who doesnt do savage who is suddenly interested in this after either hearing of or themselves experiencing smashing their face against this content for hours.
So, idk really who this was made for. Savage pros complain about having to rely on and failing cause of worse players and worse players dont feel a difference between this and regular savage other than feeling more shit and anxiety for dragging down 23 rather than seven other people.
This is like worse pf content for the average player than actual savage cause what is harder than finding seven patient people to learn with? Finding 23.
@@cuppy666 We call this "Mass Punishment" in the military. It was actually shown to demoralize and create divisiveness within the ranks, so it was done away with over a decade ago.
@@thenameisalreadyused5046 spitting mad facts here. If an average player can't even do Savage with 7 other people, what hope do they have in getting 23 patient other people? It's just a worse experience then just doing Savage, at least there you're a liability to 7 people not 23. If their goal here was just get regular people into harder content, then this experiment has failed. In a month or 2 it'll just be the same savage raiders doing the content for Bis as per usual.
I love the idea of a chaotic alliance raid but I think this needs some serious iteration. Biggest issue is the difficulty. I work and have a family. Though I’ve done savage and ultimate in the past I simply don’t have time to sit in pf and prof a fight for five hours. So for me, other than ex’s, Dawntrail has no content for me to do.
I think a sweet spot for difficulty for something like this would be between a normal alliance raid and ex trail. Easy enough to be pugged in a reasonable amount of time (especially with 23 other people), hard enough to be something to actually sink your teeth into.
The issue is towers. It's a huge body check that will make or break the entire raid.
PF hell is real. Gotta add to this that I do this as a Tank and I'm having a blast, having to manage my cooldowns for not only TBs and heavy attacks but also for Auto Attacks, especially in Phase 1 due to that debuff that makes autos increases their damage feels great. It's not new technically, but we haven't seen something like that in a long time, so I appreciate it. It's certainly more engaging as a tank than the Arcadion savage for comparaison.
My biggest concern is I feel the bonus demi-materia based on first timer is kind of backward. I feel the raid should give 2 per clear + 1 per first timer instead of 1 + 2. I understand the idea of wanting to help new players, but the raid is very difficult and pf unfriendly (especially the tile phase) that I think a lot of people will just want to farm with people who cleared, but then it becomes a 1 per clear and that feels terrible, as you'd need up to 75 clears for that mount, especially in a few months when most people doing it will be people that already cleared. I hope I'm wrong though and time will tell.
Regardless, I'm glad this content exists, and I hope they continue to work on more and improve on the formula.
auto attacks and random damage is so normal too.. I guess ffxiv really went too hard into dance routines then old ass mmo mechanics.
@@bojangler9685 for sure but it feels more varied than only caring about TBs, which even during arcadion it was 75% "invuln lul"
This chaotic raid has definitely shown how disconnected streamers and most content creators are from the average player base.
Facts bro, it’s content creator, content. Not everyone has 20+ skilled players to pull from on a given day to clear this. Sounds like PF is having fun with this 😂.
@@Fndlord being in an active FC or Cross World LS could help these things; you can have a base of 15-20 players and then fill the rest. The player base is very spread out into cliques/and FCs that are more social environments. Even so, this is not mid-core content this is an Extreme/1-Savage needing more players essentially making it hardcore. Casual players still struggle with some Jeuno's mechanics, but you can get carried though certain things, I expected something slightly harder than shadow lord with some additional mechanics like when he splits into 3 make each party fight a copy + smaller cleaves
@@Fndlord ive PF'd this many time and then get invited to discords from pf so we have some communication its all fine
@@Fndlord Maybe OCE is just built diff but I didn't have issues PFing this even after being a few days late to start prog. Have 6 clears so far.
Maybe it's jp dc privileges but I was able to go from fresh into farming it just last weekend. I guess it helps that there is now basically only one strat here with no variations.
I REALLY feel what you said with how they should swap the release shedule for this and the new bozja/space exploration. I'm someone who doesn't do any content that isn't casual, i don't do savages, i don't do extremes, so this .5 patch feels like it's just nothing for me. There's the new custom delivery NPC, but that's all i get for the next three months until 7.2, and i don't think bozja/exploration are coming out there either, and it makes the patch feel really bad for people like me
I feel like this is going to have massive growing pains of people trying to do this in Party Finder, a lot more-so than usual given it’s about savage level and having to manage 24 players. I’m still happy this content exists, and I want to start getting into it, but my only concern is that it’ll have hardly anyone participating in a month by the time a lot of the hype has died down. I’d love to be wrong, but seeing people express how hellish it’s being to pug seems quite telling. I do agree that people overthink a lot of the hardcore content a ton of the time. It may not be for everyone, but failure is the best teacher, as a wise man once said. That or I’m giving too much credit to players to have that sort of discipline.. Only time will tell, I suppose.
I’m guessing this is 24 man stuff for raiders. It’s good for hardcore players but this content will go stale if the event be done in the PF.
Worst experience I've had in this game so far, I like the fight but trying this in PF has taken years off my life
I finally got my clear in PF, only reason we were able to finally clear it, was nobody left and we stayed a whole lockout. Killed it on the last pull
I think it's a great fight. I've cleared it a few times now. However I know too well that a lot of people struggle with hard mechanics and thus here we are. With most PF's wiping constantly, little to no progress and people leaving (no patience whatsoever). If theres one thing SE needs to nerf. It's the body checks. That's it. Leave everything as it is. Just make it so a few deaths will not completely wipe the raid during towers. Cause a 24 man body check is ridiculous. We already have a savage tier. We don't need another.
The body check is already not as bad because you dont wipe on 1-2 failed towers. Its other things that wipe out the groups and cause snowball into death.
That's typically what happens when they say they're adding a new mid level difficulty content.
"Oops, Savaged again"
Honestly savage is mid level... It kinda feels like people think any content that requires you to activate your brain = hardcore.
I think both criterion and savage are very midcore.
@@MarcusMaybenot wow...
@@MarcusMaybenot Absolutely, problem is, you have extreme or casuals trying this out the first time and it’s immediately too hard for them thus we must label this content “dead” . 🤣
@@MarcusMaybenotthe problem is the majority of people who play XIV will *never* play savage content.
It's nice to have more 24-man options but savage content just isn't for most people, and they keep releasing it. It's not even about difficulty, just statistics. They're releasing more content that's useless to most players because most players won't actually play it.
It's why people want real midcore content. It would be a good way to ease people onto savage, and encourage more people to do harder content they aren't doing right now.
@@MarcusMaybenot
You have spent way too much time on this game if you think savage is midcore lmao
I think the +2 per first timer is a bit ridiculous honestly. It's a bit too much of a ravine between people who do it day 1 (lol which is on christmas eve lol wow great timing) vs people doing it in a week or two when they have time. It just seems like it feels bad honestly.
Imagine if an extreme gave you 50 tokens if you cleared with 8 new people vs 1 when nobody is new. It just seems wrong.
IMO they should have just made it count for your weekly first clear, that makes it where the bonus is there long term for new players and makes doing it long term fine as well since you can farm out items to sell.
The extra drops dont really matter if you want all rewards. You only get extra rewards for first clearers you can use on one mount and the hairstyle. Both can also drop. You will need to farm the raid dozens of times if you want the other mount (which can probably also drop but gl with that). By the time you have the 99 tokens, you will also have the other things for sure.
@@Cloudo4 Not exactly, maybe right now sure you'll probably have it but what about in the future? Say a month, a patch, an expansion, ect.
If you get the DC bonus and don't win the mount for DM1 then it would take 25 clears which is not even close to enough to buy the DM2 mount and hair.
got the clear earlier on today in PF. the fight is really good fun but i agree with other comments that PF is a nightmare for this fight, specifically the 24 man towers, i hope it’ll improve after the holidays and more guides come out for the fight
So I managed to kill it in PF and it’s been a week now. The number of PF has gone down by a lot and getting 24 people is just to much… I wouldn’t be surprised if this is dead content by the end of the month.
I want to love this content and I’ve spent probably 15ish hours progging since drop. The HARD limitation is PF. Trying to get 24 folks who want to stay and put in the hard work to make progress, but instead 95% of my experience has been leaves after 2 wipes and then we lose half an alliance. There needs to be a better way.
24 people in different timezones... Good for Japan, in NA is hell in PF.
JP is just as bad, trust me.
@@guts809 the clear rate of JP is already 2 times of NA so I don't believe that
Pf can't even do 3 wipes and stay together afterwards, you really think they are going to teach new players lol your funny.
I learned most of the fight's mechs from other players in-instance since the raidplan used in NA is currently pretty awful
But yeah the real hurdle here is keeping 24 people together long enough to get used to eachother
he is quite delusional towards his points of view most of people ain't even care that much about raiding BUT would have lots of fun doing the Medcore raids / activities while this garbage will be on life support by few weeks on closed discords.
@@-cat-.. You dont even have to get used to anyone. There are no complicated tank swaps or insane damage incoming that needs specific mitigation plans. People just need to take their role and do what the raidplan says.
@@GamerNycterisit’s not even that hard lol
my biggest issue is, as usual, the 800 different Pastebins and strats. im on Console, I CANT CLUCK YOUR DAMN LINKS IN CHAT, lol.
I would take the 30 seconds to type in the url on my smartphone.
Capital letters matter, so you may have to try twice for things like j vs J.
(The goog doc links are too long for this, of course.)
I have google lens and it's been saving my ass lol
This is literally the worst content they added into the game. The fight itself is very fun and quick, which I like. The party finder experience is hell though. I have done everything till now in statics and in PF (ultimates, savage, extremes, etc.) but nothing feels as bad as this fight. Having the possibility of one single person wiping the whole raid is bad. Even now on day 3 the parties start to fill up slower and slower. People who have never seen the pvp tiles go into kill parties and grief 23 other people. It's just a really bad experience and I don't see myself farming it in PF. It took me my whole day in kill or reclear parties to get ONE SINGLE kill... that's ridiculous. And I am not gonna start about the reward system.
I don’t really understand why Square Enix is adding new savage content.
Even though savage difficulty wasn’t initially planned, casual players will never engage with such challenging content that requires participating in a Party Finder.
Why didn’t they just take the opportunity to create new content slightly harder than the game’s standard difficulty-something balanced between normal and extreme?
I know that for experienced players, extreme is considered midcore, but for the majority of casual players, anything that fundamentally requires participation through PF,
and can only be cleared with hours and hours of progression and collaboration, only benefits a small niche portion of the community.
The game already had a savage raid in the previous patch, a new extreme fight, and an ultimate in 7.1. Now, in 7.15, we get another savage content, offering great rewards but appealing to very few players.
This content will likely end up as deserted as Variant and Criterion dungeons, especially since it requires finding 24 people to clear it.
That alone complicates the challenge, which is already way too demanding for 24-player content.
I really think the concept of the fight is good, but once again, it caters to the same minority of players while casual players are left out, despite the drought of content in 7.1.
A 24-player raid, a dungeon, and tribal quests aren’t enough to keep people engaged.
So why add content that doesn’t even have an accessible version for the general player base? Why cater only to the 10-15% of players doing savage and the 1% doing both savage and ultimate?
Preventing regular and casual players from accessing this fight by making it excessively difficult and Party Finder-dependent is a mistake they shouldn’t have made for new content.
This decision will condemn it to a quick death-nobody will engage with it anymore a month from now.
This ^
Well spoken
The condemned in a month is my exact feelings for this and Criterion too. Like whose really going to play this stuff for long? The casuals certainly won't, the hardcore ones will dip once they get their stuff. This type of content is deader than Eureka and one will ever play it later if it's only synced. V&C being synced still after 6mos into a new expansion basically makes that content Perma dead.
I tried the fight out last night and the mechanics aren't much more difficult than extreme. I would say it's almost easier because there's a lot of solo responsibility and if you die over and over you can still get through if everyone knows what they're doing
The main difficulty though comes from the amount of players
Everyone's already echoed the sentiment in the comments. But I think genuinely casual players can do fine in this raid. Just gotta get over the mental hurdle and intimidation
@@shiburu You can only get carried in phase 1. As soon as it goes to towers etc. you will most likely wipe the group sooner or later. In best case such people are in group A because the rezz point after falling is on the west side. If you are supposed to be somewhere else and fall down or whatever, you are just missing.
people are so toxic and pretentious of their own skills over this particular duty, its so crazy lol. pf atleast
Omg yes, I had one co heal tell me to esuna the dooms (day 1 before we realised we shouldn't really have any dooms) bottom to top "like in tea"... I didn't say anything but turned to my partner to rant like oh yes ofc, tea, that thing absolutely everyone has done 🙃 I've healed savages and heal for ex farming but haven't touched an ult and was just like... Idk guess a weird flex 😅 was almost glad when one person left and that pf fell apart
@@XxMazziexX imagine getting so mad that your cohealer wants to coordinate with you
They didn't have to mention TEA is the point. They already explained how they wanted to do it. But it is a small, maybe even unintentional flex.
SE really gave Happy brambles for christmas. So thoughtful.
The new player bonus flat out will not work. Why would I bother taking 8 times as long to kill then fight when I'd get more materia just clearing instead?
Good point. Sounds good in theory but if you can get a clear faster then helping new players then whats the point of the bonus
...Why does the Stygian Shadow cast lasers from the front first when the mechanic is called "Lateral-core Phaser"..? Shouldn't that mean that it fires to the sides first? Is this another Kelpie situation, or am I stupid?
Fun fact in german its the otherway around lol
Probably stupid translation. As the other person said, in german its the opposite so it tells the order it hits.
When I see the add casting that attack, I always think to myself: she's calling the safe spots for me. Hopefully that helps!
fight is fun, but the prog in pf was some of the worst i did, specialy near the end. people leaving after 1-2 pulls. maybe helpers looking for easy bonus going to try their luck in a diffirent party after 1-2 pull. it was really frustrating.
After like 20 hours of pf hell i got 2 clears. One day 2 and one day 3. I think it will be a full few weeks before pf becomes not painful. That said I love the fight. I love all the pvp mechanics. I love how people actually chat while filling because there's 24 people to talk to instead of 8 I do think towers should be less punishing but for the first of it's kind it's a great start and I'd love to see a lot more raids like it in the future.
I like how they are adding different group sized hard contents.
They added 4 man criterion dungeons in previous expansion and now they add 24 man. Previously we were always stuck to 8 man hard content.
I think its a good thing to see different group sized high end content.
they clearly misunderstood what players wanted for hard 4 man content though. criterion is not prog content. hence why players dont use it and had negative reviews.
@@ZelosSama what was wrong with Criterion? I haven't done it or really looked into it, what didn't people didn't like about it and how should it have been?
@@familiarstranger2080 The problem with Criterion is that it was a one and done due to garbage rewards.
@familiarstranger2080 no worthwhile rewards..... people wanted another 4 man hard content to progress with gear and stuff. harder and repeatable version of already existing version akin to mythic + in wow. Instead we got 3, hard dungeonbut with little rewards that player didnt really care about in the end.
It is, but would it kill them to add more mid-core content?
Glad that there is more content for savage level players but I know that this is content I'll never be able to clear as a casual.
there will probably be discords for this, like Eureka or Bozja! Have you done those?
The issue with this is that alot of player are not at ex skill level. This fight is above that. I cleared savage and can pick thing up pretty fast. But many dont even know what to do with a flare marker. I still se people run away with stack markers. Many time my alliance would be the only one up when phase 2 starts and thats most because partical beam didnt wipe us the the other 2 team being down. You can do everything right and still wipe due to other. Any issue PF had with 8man content is 3x an issue in 24 man. So now not only do you have to wait on your team to get it right but now 16 other player have to also get it right. Many of which first time raiders. Whats going to happen is raider are going to gatekeep this not take in new player, farm bonus time, then sell the rewards to player that cant do it.
i fear the difficulty of it makes it above the level of the average PF participant which makes it yet another niche fight and at this point i have to wonder what on earth are they thinking to release back to back to back high end fights leaving the majority of the playerbase with nothing to do
thank you for the breakdown your view points are always appreciated
Agree, they've been steadily releasing more high-end content that's gating players who prefer content hard enough to be able to do stuff through DF. I've been longing for them to make Alliance raids chaoticly hard like the old ones were during their time too.
no, people like you have gotten use to the easy raids. The game has become so easy and homogenized
This expansion will see the return of Field Ops contents (terms for Eureka and Bozja), and it is in later patches I think. They arent doing the EW crap again. Honestly previous expansion x.1 patch has always been a low point, and this content fixed that.
@@gianghuynh9570 Its in 5.2 alongside Cosmic Exploration, as confirmed at Chinese and Korean Fanfests.
the devs are morons. its not that complicated
I’ve cleared anabaseios (my first tier), tea and dsr in pf but even combining all the memes and prog liars I’ve had to endure, they don’t compare to the 3 hours of “prog” I’ve had on this fight. At least when going into savage/ultimate most people are somewhat receptive to explanations and strats, but seeing people die to every single mechanic on p1 over and over again and needing to explain what tank swaps are to every co-tank I’ve had just made me give up on this completely. Which is a shame because it seems like it could be fun if you’re able to gather 23 other competent players.
First thing, i was kinda disapointed that chaotic turned out to be a single fight, i was really hoping they would make a version of CT and ST closer to their original difficulty, since they refuse to ilvl sync them. Once you get past that what really turned me off from this was that its Cloud of Darkness, again. I didnt like it the first time around, nor every couple of days when I get it in Alliance Raid roulette. And then as you say at the end, the timing just feels off. Bringing this in the same patch as Ultimate, instead of something more casual like the exploration zones, has made it feel like the patch is massively weighted towards a specific portion of the playerbase.
It was supposed to be midcore,yet she's throwing out attacks worse then brute fuckin bomber.This is DEFINITELY not for casual-Mid players
I'm sorry but after a few weeks this is gonna be more dead then criterion.
If this isnt midcore, what then? Its all basic mechanics one with a brain should understand after 3 tries.
@@Cloudo4 I have a memory disability and can't handle the overly flashy visuals. This fight has so much going on visually I can't even see what is happening 99% of the time.
Mr Happy: "Let me know what your thoughts are", viewers proceed to give their feedback on the content and just about every comment is getting harrassed by others for giving their two cents - literally what was being asked in the video.
Not putting any blame on Mr Happy but this is why giving any feedback is difficult. People will do anything to silence you if you don't think the same way as others and criticism is tantamountable to a federal crime. Comments being critical of this content are being deleted instantly.
Could hold a feedback forum, live, in-game for honest engagement straight from actual players, and turn it into a stream.
This is why I don’t give my feedback anymore. I dropped my sub and I’ll come back if/when something interests me. My wallet is my feedback.
@@foxyfoxington2651 Best choice to be honest.
The fact we have to wait so long for exploratory content really sucks. I haven't been unsubbed so long since the launch of an expansion and I'm honestly considering just not even bothering anymore. What are they thinking over at SE right about now?
sounds like a personal issue? SE isnt thinking about you personally.
@@SinisterPlaugesThey better because all they doing is losing money feedback is critical end of the day they’re selling a product
@SinisterPlauges Thats the thing, they represent that casual base.
They've been given no content for a long time.
@@SinisterPlauges It's called SE is abandoning the casual playerbase that made this game a success by giving us barely any content while focusing on the 1% that do hardcore content. Keep doing that...let's see what happens when the average players who keep this game alive all say forget it...we're done. I've played 11 years and I am pretty much over it with how anemic the content schedule is while they focus on raiders.
> Let me know what your thoughts are
It'll be dead content in two weeks. Didn't resub for it and don't care. The only feedback SE listens to are dollars and cents.
Then what sort of thing would you want SE to change/add in/etc that could change you current view on the game, if there's anything that could change your view at this point?
Apparently, permanent focus on content around the difficulty of normal and extreme because that is the actual skill level of players.
Yeah nope, will never do any discord only content.
I think the timed bonus can work very well once there are more of these. I'm imagining three different chaotics, one of which has a bonus at any given time so that youre incentivized to do that one even if the gear rewards are now outdated.
My biggest issue is that this should be available in the duty finder and difficult enough that's it the most difficult thing in the duty finder. It would be nice if it was something someone could jump into without the need of using the party finder and dealing with that.
PF is a huge problem with this fight. I can clear all 4 fights in savage in 2 or 3 weeks in PF but this fight is awful haven't even seen past phase 1 once. You wait a long time for the group to fill from what I seen the amount of time before someone leaves is usually around 20 min or so that isn't enough time to figure out phase 1 or get a sense to how it works. But after one person leaves it causes a cascading effect of a bunch of other people leaving then you are back in PF with the same group with most people already left or you a looking through every single group to see which one is most full to join.
I feel like they can't have this degree of puzzle mechs on a 24 man. The fight design needs to be like the regular 24 mans with like higher dps checks or something. PF can not handle the amount of coordination this takes. The fight might be ok for a discord group but I would say like 1 in 50 groups in PF uses discord.
Another reason to use 6-tanks is because Crystal Tower was a 6-tank raid. Newer raids just make you bring 3, but you still needed 6 for the OG version.
Only LotA was like that, because of the Behemoth King fight. Syrcus and WoD had the 1 tank 2 healer 5 dps comp.
Yoshi P needs to stop catering to the streamers and content creators. This content is designed for the 1% of the playerbase who enjoys this time of content. Meanwhile, the casual/average player has ZERO to do. If this is the direction the game continues to go...after 11 years I am out.
If i would raid with my streamer bubble peer group i would came to the same dillusional conclusions.
Hearing mister happy obtain 7 clears when the content has been out for less than a week makes us pugs second class citizens.
PF is hell, there is no patience, and after about 4 hours, my furthest prog point has been brambles/tethers.
I hope the pf mentality changes and people lighten up to getting clears.
PF experience:
>Join group that manages to find 24 people
>Someone's new and doesn't understand the mechanics
>Wipe 3-4 times and party disbands
>Rinse and repeat ad nauseam
This is why raiding without a static in this game, is extremely painful 😂.
I think the reason the gear is 730 and pretty much equal to Savage (with no clear advantages like extra materia slot, higher ilvl etc.) is Ultimate. FRU syncs to 735, to allow for the Savage weapon to have its materia work. If the gear from this were 735, it'd immediately throw FRU's balance into chaos (though it could be argued that PCT did that already), something that they usually don't have happen until the Ultimate is a bit older (it'll be done via gear from 7.3's dungeon, if the pattern holds, which is when the new Ultimate is likely to release)
As for unlocking Savage, it'd be nice if they did, but as of currently it's the only source of 730/735 weapons. The upgrade to tome weapons still only drops in M3S on a weekly lockout, and we can't trade Jeuno coins/Hunt Nuts for it yet, so I imagine it's something to do with that. If it were up to me, I'd consider having an item that drops in Chaotic, that can be used to upgrade a 730 tome weapon to 735, like the last Criterion had in EW. Getting the base weapons would still be timegated, but it'd at least offer a new path to getting 735s until they do get unlocked
I wonder if they will downwards adjust some of the mechanics later, there's precedent in doing this with bozja and delubrum and those are similarly sync content. Even echo might make it viable?
Thanks for breaking this down. This feels overwhelming to me with the idea of so many folks and wasting way more people's time if I mess up.
It's worth bearing in mind that you are hardlocked in to doing the entire of the middle phase no matter how much damage you would do unsynced. Unless it turns out you can actually kill the adds they are almost guaranteed to live until 0.1% and you just have to play out all the hard mechanics until they go back to the boss. So unsyncing is very unlikely to be of much value for a very long time.
One thing that would be a good bridge for the rewards is being able to turn in 1s for 2s after you complete your gear
@24:30 i love that he tried to calm himself down and think reasonably and then got worked up again immediately 😂
You know when I read about the limited time bonus in the patch notes, I really thought that would be, like, a weekend, not a few hours
I wonder if they could adjust the rewards cost at a later time when there are less newcomer bonuses, similarly to how they adjusted the Bozja relic farm retroactively the further we got into the Shadowbringers life cycle 30:20
My single biggest issue is that Towers is a HARD barrier for how easily one can limp to phase 2. While I like that the early bit is a nice easy enough entry point, it ends up giving players a sort of false sense of progression where people who really don't know phase 1 are seeing phase 2 and so early phase 2 groups can't make any progress it feels like. I honestly feel like they needed to body check or maybe even a light dps check before the transition to phase 2 just to gate it a bit more. While I'm not a fan of overly relying on body checks, they do help gate progression which makes sorting into prog points in pf more accurate, and I feel like gating after transition rather then before is a big problem for a 24 man fight.
All I want to see, if they do more Chaotics, is Ozma and Thunder God Cid
God please
While chaotic thunder God would be great, it would probably be Ultima since final boss.
Ozma was already put in BA
@@Ventus777777You are not wrong but on the other hand Thundergod is the fan favorite so I could see them make an exception just for that reason. Assuming they don't just abondon Chaotic and make one for each tier then they will have to think other bosses than the final one of the raid to not immediately run out of source material.
@@VGPorage Only way I could see it is if they take the teases about Ultima from Pandemonium and do more with it. Either would be really cool tbh
Seven shadows cast, seven fates foretold. Yet at the end of the broken path lies death, and death alone!
This content only proved to me, that FFXIV is no longer for me. Been playing from 3.0, and now It's finally time to stop. I'm destroyed, but perhaps it's for best.
I would rate this boss more difficult than extreme, most certainly on Savage level difficulty.
And having to find new players after one or two wipes, doesn't help the progress.
I feel like this type of content is going to get a few dedicated discord servers to organize daily / weekly runs, just like Basdion arsenal
For pepple struggling with getting pf kills that may be the way to go
I mean to this day the BA server im in still does weekly runs and are always looking for new players to join
I was hoping for an extreme tour of the entire Crystal Tower raid series, but I'm okay with just beating up the Cloud of Darkness
I am sorry but you are mis speaking... This fight is very difficult.. Combine the fact that you have 24 random people in the fight and the mechanics will kill almost everyone, at anytime.. You are not being fair with your evaluation of this fight.. in fact, in your stream where you were progging this, you died and got upset at others because of the mechanics.. Doom on almost everyone and the healers trying to save you?
I like new content.. I like harder content, but SE has failed us when it comes to what they are really good at.. Good steady content.. Casual/to hard if you will. THIS is the player base.. not World's First... This fight will only last until the newness wears off then the average person coming through the story this time next year will be left out. que times are horrible with this now, can you imagine what they will be like a few months from now when people like yourself have moved on to the next thing that makes a video? SE needs to come back home to the roots if they want to be around another ten years.
I learned it long ago that if there is anything that you should ignore Happy's opinion on, its difficulty.
Respectfully, anyone who even plays with the thought let alone saying it out loud in a podcast, that Savage is midcore should be immediately disqualified from further discussion about the topic of difficulty.
Its borderline as dumb take as calling a grandmaster in a competitive FPS an average player just because Top500 exist.
Happy is very knowledgeable on other things, but he can't grasp the fact that midcore content mostly ends when something is not doable with a random duty finder. The fine line of midcore content is Bozja critical engagements, CLL,Delubrum normal and Dalriada.
Fights where you can mostly get by with pure intuition without any pre-assigned positions and borderline everything is salvageable while also you are bombarded with mechanics enough to not fall asleep, thats what midcore is.
Not when boss cast "random bs go no1" and suddenly 4 people dies because someone somewhere had a debuff and looked the wrong way in the other side of the room.
@@tideash oh you all complained in this comment section when he called Endsinger too easy. He was on point back then and he is now. Not our problem you guys suck
@@Kasuta_Ikite "our" damn lil bro u dont have to throat happy that deep, I see u running mad defense in the comments
@@Kasuta_Ikite Fine,ill bite.
Did it ever occured to you that even that opinion of his about difficulty was wrong but people have moved on because the fight indeed got easier overtime?
Maybe Endsinger was indeed too hard compared to any other x.0 endboss prior.
The only reason you dont see the complaints now is that nowadays people have better gear for it and most teammate you get via roulettes are now people who did the fight, know what to do, have materias and even if all that fails, the echo still saves the day. During release,people had shiet gear,often without materia,did not have experienced teammates and had no echo.
This does not change the fact that when you are comparing it to Hades, Shinryu or the bucketheads of heavensward, the base difficulty is indeed much harder.
Even today, you will see first timer people dying left-right and center to the planets and most of them only dodge by following the big mass of people who are suddenly moving, not because they learn how the mechanic actually works.
This barely happened in x.0 bosses before Endsinger even though the same "debuffs" are applied,like having shiet gear and without materia. Because during leveling, people dont really care.
The difficulty spike in the trials of Endwalker was much higher than the difficulty spikes between the old expansions and people were not used to that. People who do hardcore content barely notice this, including Happy, so for them the complaints sound unwarranted.
ALL this, however, does not matter in the slightest when we are still talking about a dude who essentially says that the preliminaries in the olympics are just casual matches.
(saying savage is midcore)
Its an unbelieveably stupid take.
@@tideash People cleared in pf so its midcore by your definition. What you describe as midcore is dungeon level difficulty. Thats easy, not midcore. And this fight is only midcore because the mechanics itself are piss easy. I might also have a different view than people who never do hard content but nothing in this raid is hard enough to call it hard. The only problem clearing it is relying on so many other people because most players (in any game) are simply shit at what they are doing.
This fight is terrible for the average person.
I just cleared last night and wow. It's a very exciting piece of content but hooboy is it rough trying to do content like this with 24 random PF people consistently 😂
Content designers are completely out of touch with what the community wants. Nobody asked for 24-man bodychecks.
I did. I wanted Delebrum Reginae Savage or Baldesion Arsenal but without the needed grind for resources. Those two couldn't because the difficulty for them wasn't body checks but dps checks. DPS checks that would fail if too many people made mistakes / died.
I did. My friends did. You didn't
@@Kasuta_Ikite That's cool but I think you're the minority bro cause I agree with the original comment. 24 man body checks is bullshit. Strict body checks should remain entirely in 8 man savage and ultimates.
@@ReveredDead If you remove the body checks, you end up with easy content people will get carried through.
@@Kasuta_IkiteThe opinions of you and your friends don’t sell games. They don’t pay subs to keep servers online. There are 100 dead MMOs that cater to you and your friends.
Releasing this before FRU would have been so sick for catchup. Im so tired of weekly Arcadion clears
It's interesting that they dropped this and they drop the HTMB Cloud of darkness next month in FFXI
Maybe they need to call it an alliance trial. And just call the 8-man raids trials as well... Or just call all 8-man content trials and all 24-man content raids.
Love that they are getting creative with the shape of the arena.
To my knowledge, there hasn't been ppl chasing the bonus at the moment... seen various bonus windows in Crystal, at home, but there was barely 3-4 parties. Then again maybe ppl could start seeking those as reclears become more common. But I doubt it.
If finding people to sync clear previous Ex/Savs is already torture, I’m gonna guess finding 23 more people for this will just be a fever dream.
It wasn't only the crafted hands for healer... The best available boots were NORMAL RAID boots! Not savage raid boots, not tomestone boots, NOT EVEN UPGRADED CRAFTED BOOTS! ALL OF THOSE HAD PIETY, THE ONE STAT THAT DOES NOT IMPROVE YOUR DAMAGE OR HEALING IN A MEANINGFUL WAY! Itemization is so weird...
they really said "fuck healers" this tier LOOOOOOOOOL
that being said, going through pf the piety was probably needed because there was usually a dedicated spatula lmfao
i'm a min piety healer and i'm having a lot of fun this expac though! i need to use my whole kit! it's great
This is horrific for people who don't do hardcore content. You literally cleared this within a few hours of PF. The rest of us are not that lucky.
Let's clear this up. This is Hardcore content to people who don't do any endgame sweaty content.
Most joined because it was presented as a way to get players who don't do hardcore content - proof is the boosted rewards for first time clears. There are a ton of people dropping from the PF due to the misleading advertising of this.
The mechanics are just way too fast initially and Grim Embrace should have two different icons for front and back. We get that for a lot of different raids yet this is the first to omit it.
People are just straight up killing each other. This is just some lazy content the devs threw out for hardcore players to farm. After having FRU release last month and then this, there is nothing for the 90% of the normal players to do in the game. And 7.2 isn't just around the corner.
Locking the only decent looking gear behind this was an insanely terrible idea. We already lost out on actual battle armor looking gear from the PVP series for a fucking baseball glam coffer which is a first for PVP. So expect more people to RMT gil to purchase carries just like those who purchase Ultimate weapons. Also, this will promote the use of more plugins. Don't have to worry about World First bexause it's not that big of a deal but this will definitely increase cheating - like using the farther camera for seeing the arena.
Your impression of this is from a hardcore players perspective when casual players have received absolutely nothing for farm content. This was such a bad move on SE's part and they even joked about overtuning it like our subscriptions and time is just something they can play fuck around with during the Holidays. This gear will be outpaced in about two months, so this is completely unacceptable.
my god, you guys had 2 expansions of 100% casual shit. We get one harder 24 man content and you complain non stop
@Kasuta_Ikite Really telling on yourself claiming two expansions in a row having only casual content and completely ignoring V/C Dungeons, Ultimates and Savages.
This was the best retort you could muster? An ignorant reply that blankets two fantastic expansions as mid? Let me guess, you think DT is the best expansion ever in MMO history lol.
What discords are people using for organized runs/clears?
It’s a stressful fight in pf to the point the gear/and hairstyle not worth it even when a raid guide is out ppl still can’t do mechanics and clear it in pf
Good summary the mounts are cool but just like Criterion the rewards arent worth it the glam armour isnt my or my communities cup of tea.
For healer it's worse than crafter, it's one crafted and one normal raid piece. Healers were running 727 as their BiS
isnt there already a CoD minion, the puff of darkness?
i also think people would farm content more if they could sell ALL the rewards, but then that leads back to the issue of not much to waste gil on, i usually hover around 1.5 mil but when the 7.5 mil hoverbike was added i made up the difference in about a week (thanks to crafting and the release of savage), since then ive been hovering at 6-7 mil again after spending the 7.5, and thats not including what my retainers are holding
Did clear. Didnt need discord. But the raidplan was almost necessary to get everyone on the same page.
That being said, theres too many body checks. While a streamer gets to keep their party till the end, thats not how PF works.
Phase 1 was perfect.
Plus the minion drop is BS.
The party finders I tend to join nobody communicates everyone is silent and then the elite party finders some with threats. Like. You die instant kick lol whaaaaat!
Ok it's been out a few weeks now can says it's not been too bad, more fun than extreme obviously PF has issues but PF always does so that's more a community problem than this fight. But managed to get both mounts, sell some haircuts and gear up alt classes which otherwise would take ages with tomes (have all bis Savage stuff minus weapons). Although as a tank i saw Chaotic head had skilll speed, bought the aug tome ones with skill and then thought of the M1 earrings do lets mess with Skill speed builds on GNB but jumped in M1S didnt win em and just thought why is the raid tier still locked when im wanting to experiment with gear for FRU
if you’d allow unsyncing it, how would you ever run it synced afterward? with an extreme/savage you can still fill in pf for an old fight synced every now and then, or find a static doing old stuff, but getting 24 people in one place at the same time to sync the fight seems nigh impossible if the option to unsync it was there
there's a bigger MINE community than you think
@@meuanglao7not for 24 people
@@LordRobaZe ...there's a bigger MINE community than you think lol
Put an achievement for Blue Mages in there once their level gets raised to 100
Idk...seems like the opposite problem to me. If you can get in and clear now, great. But having a consistent group of people to run this 50+ times later when the new player bonus dries up is going to be horrendous. Even if they did an unsync next expac.
You'll find a dedicated group of players to do one MINE clear easily enough. But 50? Idk fam.
Ill say this for the gear at least. For healers it finally gives some BiS options that arent spell speed or piety
I dipped my toe in it for about 40 mins on release, but my day was pretty busy and couldn't do much more. We did get to phase 2, but the group I was in was struggling to read the chat. Mechanics that were explained were being ignored by the 3rd of the alliance raid and only a few people were asking questions. My co-tank was trying to tell the main tank he'll provoke off the boss after a few debuffs stacks, but he was being ignored, and the MT kept dying. He finally did a bunch of sound effects in the party chat to get his attention after 30 minutes of progging.
People please, read the chat. Its new content that requires coordination. You are a griefer if you stay in your own bubble thinking you'll just randomly pull through knowing half of the information like people can get away with in the normal alliance raids. Its not that kind of fight, so please be a teamplayer. You don't have to talk that much, but you DO need to speak up if something isn't making sense to you.
Very fun but this is the content where people are rabid.
Ultimates and savage toxicity
have nothing on this
People also ahouldnt forget content creators also have that luxury of influence. Happy and Xenos ofc will have competent no life FFXIV only people on their team
The average raider can barely walk without tripping over
Is it sad that as a person who is only as good as some easier extremes and normal content that I would like to do this? Because I get the feeling I will never get to this battle. I should note that I have technically cleared Sephirot EX and Sophia EX and easier extremes (I do consider Lakshmi EX as an easier extreme) but that’s it. I am also only at the end of Shadowbringers and have been playing for a year experiencing as many story and battles as I can stomach as my first MMORPG.
I think first time bonus have its value for long run in market bord
yes its easy to get hair style now and sell in market bord but in long run it will be more rare and keep its value in market bord
CAR gear is what saved Healer BiS tbh
I tried it on Christmas Eve and am one of the many players that does not do hard stuff. Will not try again. Let the hard core players that like extremely hard stuff all the time have it. I will stick to other stuff in the game.
This is not extremely hard. You are just extremely bad. This is midcore stuff
@@Kasuta_Ikite "just find 23 other people to clear the fight bro it's not that hard"
individuals are smart people are dumb
@@Kasuta_Ikite This is not midcore, you're just extremely stupid.
I love this fight as bard, I get an excuse to cleanse people :D but oh boy we had 1 group disband cause person left, it was a pain to finally get a stable group thru PF.
Having No Requirements is a HUGE mistake.
Last floor of Savage or some other checks because having EVERYONE join in a content where 1 player can wipe the other 23 its absolutely miserable.
Saying this after losing hours to people unable to do Stack or Spreads on the first ADD mechanic.
What requirements do you think it needs? Pure curiosity. Too much gatekeeping is a mistake too.. something in the middle maybe
Sphene at least
@@carlobertolini7833 Sphene or the Second floor of Savage (lets not make it the 4th so its too "gatekeeping"
(ignoring the fact that you might need over 50 clears for 1 mount, like most Extremes now)
Any 10 min fight that requires your full attention, not your casual roulette where you can do everything wrong and still clear because the other 3 had an idea of what they were doing.
No. The only reason its more difficult for this Chaotic raid is because they overtuned it, at the difficulty they INTENDED no requirements would be more than fine. You also clearly didn't watch the video as he made it very clear that there are very, very few mechanics that an individual can fail to wipe the raid. Its more personal responsibility that kills you.
@Alcadria that isn't true. I've done my part perfectly the past 3 days and it's others that wipe you
23:54
No, dude. Someone like you can't fathom how difficult savage is. The average player can't just dedicate themselves to savage
That seems a bit um. Defeatist? Anyone can learn savage if they want to. Anyone. Obviously not everyone is gonna enjoy it, but that's every content in the tame. The average player is a kind of vague mectric
Why can't they dedicate themselves to Savage? Outside of literal limitations like mental or physical disabilities / inconsistent daily schedule or low amount of free time, what is stopping "the average player" from dedicating themselves to Savage?
I suspect the actual answer is a self inflicted mental block stopping people from even attempting Savage but I'm happy to be wrong if you'd clarify.
At this point, the biggest difference between an extreme fight and a first Savage fight is the rewards.
EX3 this expansion is an unironically harder fight than M1S/M2S.
The same's been true for almost every expansion, Endwalker the odd one out.
@@Jaxter0987 It's intimidating. You're joining 7+ people that have probably cleared, you gotta go in and learn the fight. Even learning parties will generally want you to not fuck up because the moment you do, you get flamed and ppl leave etc etc - granted that's my experience in the few savage fights I've tried. I won't touch savage fights after my few tries. I don't think I'm a bad player and I bet I could do the fights after enough tries but I don't like holding people back as I learn. It feels like you gotta get in on day #1 if you're looking to get it done because the expectation is that you know the fight 100% in PF.
@@Jaxter0987 Not really. I quit raiding as I noticed a major shift in the mindset and approach to it in Shadowbringers and Endwalker. I'm not bad by any means, but didn't vibe with the fact that the majority of people raiding now view savage as easy content and are much more harsh when approaching people who are new to it or aren't as experienced. Its not a mental block but rather a communal stigma and bias that has formed that many raiders simply do not have the mental capacity to understand anymore. Its simply not an environment I wanted to be involved with anymore if people are going to be so stubborn and frankly rude.
Most raiders have grown accustomed to savage difficulty, for them that is their baseline for midcore content, but they fail to realize that savage for the vast majority of players is not baseline and is in fact the upper echelon of difficult, with Ultimate being so beyond their level of comprehension that it looks like someone is subjecting themselves to torture from an outside perspective.
Think of it how a career politician will often be shocked at the living conditions and salary of an average working class family, having often assumed that 6 figures is a baseline for living (look it up, this is true in the US and most of the western world)-in a similar manner most raiders lack the ability to understand how difficult what they are doing actually is for the average player. Because it IS difficult and it is not at all midcore, as midcore difficulty doesn't truly exist in this game in any capacity.
Its not a mental block for the average player but rather excessive expectations, a lack of patience and unwillingness to accommodate "lesser" skilled players from people who have stuck with raiding. The raiding community is insular and deluded in a way that it didn't used to be as there's this prevailing belief that "Savage is midcore content," which it absolutely isn't.
For many its not the content that's an issue, but the prevailing mindset of career raiders that have pushed people away and set immediate expectations that are unattainable for the average player.
my guess is the minion is a direct inventory drop like the ones from pvp