The troubles that befall cubs is why I have learned to have great respect for Grazer and how aggressive she can be. She knows how hard she has to fight to beat the odds... for her cubs, and for herself. Still thinking about 94's fourth cub from last year..
This talk has helped me process the loss of the cub. It’s been a real rollercoaster week, from the highs of Otis to the lows of the cub. Thanks for helping keep it about the bears.
Thank all of you so very much for holding this impromptu talk. I was glad to be able to join in for part of it live as I was very upset hearing this. I know it’s nature but as discussed, it is human and normal and even healthy to be upset. Can you guys handle it very sensitively. Thank you.
Thank you for this. It was rough watching all that go down live. 😔 Cognitively we know these things happen but seeing it happen was pretty jarring. We appreciate you. ❤
Thank you for holding this space for those of us who are sad and/or confused about what happened and why it happened. It was really helpful to hear this information presented in a scientific, yet soft way.
We had been watching 26 and her cubs just a couple of hours before this incident. My husband cautioned that the younger bear was small and looked like it might not survive. Little did we know, he wouldn’t, but under different circumstances than we expected. I appreciate these impromptu live chats when something like this happens on the cams. I am feeling sad for the cam op - they had no idea what they were looking at, yet, had they not panned onto the incident, we would never know what happened. I hope the cam op is doing okay today. This would have happened whether the cams were on or not on; it’s nature.
Thank you for emphasising that bear behavior is just that: bear behavior. It isn't "good" or "bad" or "cruel/mean", it is just millenea of behavior. Great infomation as usual. Thanks.
Poor 26, lost a coy yesterday and had to defend her surviving cub from 747 today!! I hope she will be successful to raise her surviving cub until emancipation.
Thank you for hosting this impromptu event for us, @Explore Bears & Bison! We appreciation that you afforded us an opportunity to discuss these interactions together, and to express our grief in an inclusive space.
Great live. I'm new here but I have spent years watching Tiny Kittens rescue youtube channel - they stream 24/7 like you do. They use the term "rescue reality" because sometimes what is shown is not pretty. It definitely took me some time to get used to it but my experiences on that channel helped me when I learned about the lost cub this morning. Looking forward to watching more of your great channel. Thank you for what you do ❤
I am grateful for this presentation, just as I was last year after the 856/39 cubs incident. I actually have had to almost stop watching the Katmai Brooks River web cams because of the many events involving cubs have been so distressing, even though I have lived in Alaska most of my life and have been to McNeil River and Brooks River, as well as other location, to see bears.
I have been wondering about that incident, do you know if 39 and cubs survived?? The very 1st time I watched this program I saw the incident and have been wondering every since.
Bear 88 ( sometimes referred to as Joe ) usually is not an aggressive bear from what ive seen and heard on cam. He's actually the opposite, he's been somewhat known as a playful young boar. However in this case the coy floated directly into 88 which caused a predator prey reaction as he saw the coy as an easy meal. In the video it appears that he kills the cub before feeding on it for a little bit and then eventually dropped it.
I've been following 26 and her 2 babies for a couple of weeks, and just now saw that one of the babies had been killed. Seeing how skinny 26 is and how little food the cubs were getting, my empathy meter has been running at 200% for 26, with prayers for her and babies to find enough to eat to survive the upcoming winter. This news makes me feel sick, just sick. That poor little baby...😢
Have felt so bad for 26 since first seeing her this month. She’s been so skinny and hardly had any reserves to feed those cubs. The risk of those strong currents and the lack of fish available was just too much. Hope she is able to find more food and keep an eye on her surviving cub. 💔 Thanks for covering this. Buddy’s Mom showed a clip of 39 showing up this month without either of last year’s coys. Assume they did not make it either. (Know the cameras caught 856 chasing one off the trail last year after 39 defended them).
I agree. We don't know how hungry she was feeling and obviously, no one else was going to help her survive. She had to do it all--take care of herself and her cubs.
Yes why is no one addressing that? I have wondered why so many salmon were allowed to be caught by commercial fishermen, this year? Is it all about greed and money or what is it? It is disgusting:( the bears have very few salmon this year because of that!!
because the salmon are well within the estimates. this was the "norm" a few years ago. the salmon runs the past few years (2+ million) were not the usual.
Too many bears appear to be desperate and starving this year. Something is different. I witnessed a frenzied battle over a single fish between 909 and her cousin cubs. It was scary. They were all clearly starved. I haven’t seen that before at Katmai
@@helenf32 2011-2013 was similar, with even less fish. We've had more and more bears stick around the past few years because the runs were so huge, they're gonna have to adjust 'back' a bit
@@TinaOe Ah Ok I see. It’s not easy to watch though. It’s quite brutal. So long as commercial interests are not being prioritised over the bears. In the past humans didn’t have the technology to take millions of fish out of the system so perhaps in the distant past it was not this brutal. We will never know
First time I saw this, I had a feeling that the male bear didn’t go around trying to kill any cub. He probably just saw something struggling in the water and thought it’s a prey. Instinct kicked in, must catch and kill.
Yes, I want to know this as well. I know this is all a part of nature, but I can't help but feel at least some of this horrific death could have been avoided if humans were not causing salmon populations to decrease :(
Has there been any news of 26 and her remaining cub? How about Otis? From what I have gleamed by comments, he hasn't been seen since 7/30, which means he showed up on or around 7/26 and then disappeared 4 days later?
I don't understand the cub floated down river from an angle (behind 26) 88 was way on the other side of the water closer towards the opposite bank. How would the cub go from being washed away (from behind her mother's side of the water) to being caught by 88 on the extreme other side within seconds when he never left his post!? 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺
We humans often don't know why we do things. I wonder, if we could get the boar to answer our surveys, would he even know why he did it, other than, "because it was there"?
While we can't talk to them we know that mother bears sometimes stick around the place where they lost a cub for a bit, so we can assume they do grieve them. But we also know that they move on, both mom and siblings. Plenty of the bears currently at the river have lost litter mates as babies.
i mean, you can believe what you want, or you can believe numbers. the salmon run is lower than the past few years (which were abnormally high) but far from the worst and within estimates.
I don't think the boar bear necessarily attacked the baby bear; it looked like the baby got swept down stream and it bumped into the male bear who snapped at it for hitting him and the baby just died from the blow. The male wasn't trying to eat it or anything. I think he was just taken by surprise. He may have started biting before really aware of what had hit him so suddenly.
What I saw was different. I most def saw him eating the cub. I don’t know what you guys were watching but this cub didn’t drown And I’m very sad that the truth isn’t being told about it. I know what I saw
@@glittergrl71I haven't seen the clip, I couldn't watch it, but I read somewhere that it's not uncommon that the large male bears see cubs as a food source, sometimes even cubs they may have sired themselves 😮
any species that has the potential to produce more than one generation of cubs may appear careless with any particular litter. that «carelessness » makes them better parents with subsequent generations
747 wasn't interested in the cub but then mom backed him up regardless. I think 747 decided to make it clear later to mom he's in charge and she beter keep her lttle cubs away next time.
I feel sorry for the mama bear, I think its too much for her. Maybe now just watching the one cub she can gain some weight. I think its so dangerous for the mama bear to be that thin.
bringing the cubs to the falls was a risk. it could’ve paid ff but it didn’t. the first set of offspring are often ‘throw away’ offspring used by mothers to learn. all subsequent offspring may have higher survival rates but at a great cost to the first offspring a mother produces. safer mothers may not produce as many offspring. that difference is enough for natural selection to favor mothers who risk their cubs lives.
The troubles that befall cubs is why I have learned to have great respect for Grazer and how aggressive she can be. She knows how hard she has to fight to beat the odds... for her cubs, and for herself. Still thinking about 94's fourth cub from last year..
Poor 26 so heart wrenching seeing her call out and looking for her cub. 💔
This talk has helped me process the loss of the cub. It’s been a real rollercoaster week, from the highs of Otis to the lows of the cub. Thanks for helping keep it about the bears.
Thank all of you so very much for holding this impromptu talk. I was glad to be able to join in for part of it live as I was very upset hearing this. I know it’s nature but as discussed, it is human and normal and even healthy to be upset. Can you guys handle it very sensitively. Thank you.
Thank you for this. It was rough watching all that go down live. 😔 Cognitively we know these things happen but seeing it happen was pretty jarring. We appreciate you. ❤
Youre so fine
Thank you for holding this space for those of us who are sad and/or confused about what happened and why it happened. It was really helpful to hear this information presented in a scientific, yet soft way.
We had been watching 26 and her cubs just a couple of hours before this incident. My husband cautioned that the younger bear was small and looked like it might not survive. Little did we know, he wouldn’t, but under different circumstances than we expected. I appreciate these impromptu live chats when something like this happens on the cams. I am feeling sad for the cam op - they had no idea what they were looking at, yet, had they not panned onto the incident, we would never know what happened. I hope the cam op is doing okay today. This would have happened whether the cams were on or not on; it’s nature.
Thank you for emphasising that bear behavior is just that: bear behavior. It isn't "good" or "bad" or "cruel/mean", it is just millenea of behavior. Great infomation as usual. Thanks.
Poor 26, lost a coy yesterday and had to defend her surviving cub from 747 today!! I hope she will be successful to raise her surviving cub until emancipation.
Thank you for hosting this impromptu event for us, @Explore Bears & Bison! We appreciation that you afforded us an opportunity to discuss these interactions together, and to express our grief in an inclusive space.
Great live. I'm new here but I have spent years watching Tiny Kittens rescue youtube channel - they stream 24/7 like you do. They use the term "rescue reality" because sometimes what is shown is not pretty. It definitely took me some time to get used to it but my experiences on that channel helped me when I learned about the lost cub this morning.
Looking forward to watching more of your great channel. Thank you for what you do ❤
I am grateful for this presentation, just as I was last year after the 856/39 cubs incident. I actually have had to almost stop watching the Katmai Brooks River web cams because of the many events involving cubs have been so distressing, even though I have lived in Alaska most of my life and have been to McNeil River and Brooks River, as well as other location, to see bears.
I have been wondering about that incident, do you know if 39 and cubs survived?? The very 1st time I watched this program I saw the incident and have been wondering every since.
Bear 88 ( sometimes referred to as Joe ) usually is not an aggressive bear from what ive seen and heard on cam. He's actually the opposite, he's been somewhat known as a playful young boar. However in this case the coy floated directly into 88 which caused a predator prey reaction as he saw the coy as an easy meal. In the video it appears that he kills the cub before feeding on it for a little bit and then eventually dropped it.
I've been following 26 and her 2 babies for a couple of weeks, and just now saw that one of the babies had been killed. Seeing how skinny 26 is and how little food the cubs were getting, my empathy meter has been running at 200% for 26, with prayers for her and babies to find enough to eat to survive the upcoming winter. This news makes me feel sick, just sick. That poor little baby...😢
100% agree...
Same! 🥺💗🙏🌺
Thank you for helping us get through this.
Have felt so bad for 26 since first seeing her this month. She’s been so skinny and hardly had any reserves to feed those cubs. The risk of those strong currents and the lack of fish available was just too much. Hope she is able to find more food and keep an eye on her surviving cub. 💔 Thanks for covering this.
Buddy’s Mom showed a clip of 39 showing up this month without either of last year’s coys. Assume they did not make it either. (Know the cameras caught 856 chasing one off the trail last year after 39 defended them).
I agree. We don't know how hungry she was feeling and obviously, no one else was going to help her survive. She had to do it all--take care of herself and her cubs.
Why is no one addressing the over fishing that occurred and the almost a million (800,000) less salmon allotment for the Naknek region.
Yes why is no one addressing that? I have wondered why so many salmon were allowed to be caught by commercial fishermen, this year? Is it all about greed and money or what is it? It is disgusting:( the bears have very few salmon this year because of that!!
because the salmon are well within the estimates. this was the "norm" a few years ago. the salmon runs the past few years (2+ million) were not the usual.
Too many bears appear to be desperate and starving this year. Something is different. I witnessed a frenzied battle over a single fish between 909 and her cousin cubs. It was scary. They were all clearly starved. I haven’t seen that before at Katmai
@@helenf32 2011-2013 was similar, with even less fish. We've had more and more bears stick around the past few years because the runs were so huge, they're gonna have to adjust 'back' a bit
@@TinaOe Ah Ok I see. It’s not easy to watch though. It’s quite brutal. So long as commercial interests are not being prioritised over the bears. In the past humans didn’t have the technology to take millions of fish out of the system so perhaps in the distant past it was not this brutal. We will never know
Any news on 39 and her 2 cubs from last year and their encounter with 854 or 856?? I can't remember his # for sure.
Poor 26 prayers for her and remaining cub.
First time I saw this, I had a feeling that the male bear didn’t go around trying to kill any cub. He probably just saw something struggling in the water and thought it’s a prey. Instinct kicked in, must catch and kill.
Make bears kill cubs
What an excellent broadcast. Very informative.
So sorry for Bear 26, her little cub who was killed and her surviving cub.❤❤❤
Looks like reflex - it bumped him, he pounced.
To which department we can write a letter to address overfishing issues? Let us take some action!
Yes, I want to know this as well. I know this is all a part of nature, but I can't help but feel at least some of this horrific death could have been avoided if humans were not causing salmon populations to decrease :(
Has there been any news of 26 and her remaining cub? How about Otis? From what I have gleamed by comments, he hasn't been seen since 7/30, which means he showed up on or around 7/26 and then disappeared 4 days later?
Was the cub ever found?
Thank you for uploading the chat ❤️ rest in paradise 26 jr 🤎🤎🤎 and I hope to see 26 and her remaining cub flourish 🤎🤎
Great talk! Thank you!
So heartbreaking 💔
great discussion on the issue and of infanticide. infanticide does not need to be sexually selected infanticide to be selected for.
Anyone have any new updates on 26 and her cub? I’ve been searching for recent vids on them but haven’t seen any since end of July. Hope they are ok ❤
I don't understand the cub floated down river from an angle (behind 26) 88 was way on the other side of the water closer towards the opposite bank. How would the cub go from being washed away (from behind her mother's side of the water) to being caught by 88 on the extreme other side within seconds when he never left his post!? 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺
We humans often don't know why we do things. I wonder, if we could get the boar to answer our surveys, would he even know why he did it, other than, "because it was there"?
Will the mother bear move forward and not grieve her lost cub? And what about the sibling? I saw them huddled together often. 😢
While we can't talk to them we know that mother bears sometimes stick around the place where they lost a cub for a bit, so we can assume they do grieve them. But we also know that they move on, both mom and siblings. Plenty of the bears currently at the river have lost litter mates as babies.
I don't care what they try to say.. The salmon run is not good this year and the bears are hungry and skinny.
Bullseye 🎯 I agree.
i mean, you can believe what you want, or you can believe numbers. the salmon run is lower than the past few years (which were abnormally high) but far from the worst and within estimates.
I live next to Hyder and haven't seen any bears that are starving. The creeks were full of salmon and the berries and mushrooms were plentiful
I don't think the boar bear necessarily attacked the baby bear; it looked like the baby got swept down stream and it bumped into the male bear who snapped at it for hitting him and the baby just died from the blow. The male wasn't trying to eat it or anything. I think he was just taken by surprise. He may have started biting before really aware of what had hit him so suddenly.
What I saw was different. I most def saw him eating the cub. I don’t know what you guys were watching but this cub didn’t drown And I’m very sad that the truth isn’t being told about it. I know what I saw
@@glittergrl71 Thank you for telling me. I didn't see it, only the edited version.
@@glittergrl71I haven't seen the clip, I couldn't watch it, but I read somewhere that it's not uncommon that the large male bears see cubs as a food source, sometimes even cubs they may have sired themselves 😮
So did the coy float on down the river maybe it was just wounded and not dead
It was not wounded. It was devoured 😢
@@glittergrl71 I don't think so he let it go when he realized it wasn't a salmon
any species that has the potential to produce more than one generation of cubs may appear careless with any particular litter. that «carelessness » makes them better parents with subsequent generations
747 wasn't interested in the cub but then mom backed him up regardless. I think 747 decided to make it clear later to mom he's in charge and she beter keep her lttle cubs away next time.
I feel sorry for the mama bear, I think its too much for her. Maybe now just watching the one cub she can gain some weight. I think its so dangerous for the mama bear to be that thin.
Otis respects women and children
Probably a 60% chance of death for spring cubs in low fish count seasons.
bringing the cubs to the falls was a risk. it could’ve paid ff but it didn’t. the first set of offspring are often ‘throw away’ offspring used by mothers to learn. all subsequent offspring may have higher survival rates but at a great cost to the first offspring a mother produces. safer mothers may not produce as many offspring. that difference is enough for natural selection to favor mothers who risk their cubs lives.
infanticide is not limited to bears and has a rational explanation that makes (fitness) sense
I wish the mom's wouldn't bring the little coy around the big bears!
The male is eating it.