It's funny how our expectations and experiences correlate. It's my first and definitely my last Roland "Flagship". I'd go so far saying it's the biggest disappointment and worst buying decision in terms of value-for-money I've made in the last 20 years. It's unbelievable how you can make decent hardware and ruin it all with the software concept and quality.
I completely agree. And to have these issues still exist on Roland's 50th Anniversary, with no firmware update, is shameful. Thank you for the comment. It has been pinned to the comment section.
Agreed! I can so relate to this video! I bought the Fantom 7 in 2019, to both play live and to be the centerpiece of my production studio, and the polyphony issue in both situations drove me to get an M1 Macbook and bring in Logic Pro and Mainstage! So frustrating! I also recently picked up a MPC Key 61, and I do love the Fantom as a controller, but I am disappointed when it comes to polyphony!
How do you like the MPC Key 61, in comparison? I know it's not a metal chassis, but pads and a sampler! I was really eyeballing it when it was released, but the expressiveness of the Osmose is what I am truly after.
Workstation keyboards today are more tailored towards gigging musicians not so much production. most of the music industry shifted to the DAW given its more powerful than any MPC or workstation keyboard made today. back in the 90s and early 2000 owning a workstation keyboard or an MPC made total sense when computing power was limited and latency was an issue. Just coming off hardware sequencing just 4 months ago, I stopped sequencing on hardware all together being both an MPC and workstation user for many years. I went back to sequencing in the DAW and gotten rid of most of my workstation keyboards and switched out with rack mount sound module versions of them. I own about 5 different sound modules. I threw my MPC 5000 in the trash now that I'm hybrid using a mixture of modern soft synths and hardware Rompler sound modules in studio one. My Presonus atom drum pad controller replaced my MPC 5000 that was a piece of junk that had a lot of issues.
Holy hell now I’m nervous and thinking I should cancel my order. I just ordered the Fantom 06, and am now seeing polyphony complaints on it as well. Is it really this bad? Can the Fantom line not even handle simple multitrack sequencing without running out of poly with just a few tracks? I was planning on hooking it up to a DAW for midi sequencing, but now I’m really worried because I write a lot of Ostinato music. I was planning on using its higher quality tones along with the Complete Orchestra Expansion, but now I’m worried the Fantom won’t be able to handle this without choking. I just gave up a Roland Integra 7 because I absolutely cannot get that to work with my DAW’s for midi sequencing. Do I need to just consider walking away from Roland?
I have talked a few people out of this mess, that is for sure. Roland should have done better... they should care more about their flagship and the people who own them.
Poliphony will be least of your problems... This synth would be good 20 years ago, roland doesn't even fix the bugs in the platform. They live on technology and sounds from the past, zero evolution.
@@VIRALBEATS360 it is not a surprise at all. I have the MC-707 and you can easily run into polyphony problems as soon as you dare to touch the Unison setting in the synth and play chords (with other tracks playing). I only thought the Fantom is so much more powerful that it is maybe not an issue there given the price difference. I think the ACB machines like the System 8 are better. The polyphony is low with 8 voices but it is a synth, not a workstation and, more important it has always 8 voices guaranteed, like an analog synth, unlike those ZenCore machines which is more of a gamble.
@@mudi2000a I think that is the main issue with all of this; It is Roland's flagship keyboard/workstation. In theory, it should outperform everything else they have available, and be able to handle more than just a few tracks. Why even include a Unison switch, if every time you touch it, the polyphony maxes out? Why develop a wave table expansion that the keyboard cannot even handle? It seems to me that even Roland views their flagship as being able to handle these things, and they really sell it as a power house. The reality though, is that in practice, this keyboard really underperforms. Roland doesn't even concern themselves with working on an update, because they know it cannot be fixed. If it could, they would have already. I think they are working on a replacement, instead. I could be way off base, but it has been more than a year since the last firmware update. Even on their 50th anniversary, Roland did absolutely nothing for their flagship, or its customers...they just keep releasing new products, some with these very same issues.
I had the exact same issue with my Roland D20 back in the late 80's, and here we are with it still in 2024. This seems like a great missed opportunity for Roland as I think there are a lot of folk like me who are tired of working on a PC with VSTs etc. and are looking to go back to more streamlined/stable easy to use workstations like this, even if the options are more limited (which in some ways is more desirable, less analysis paralysis). But the problem is, is that the hardware specs and storage in these units it's laughable compared with even fairly basic modern PCs, so they really need to up their game in this area to compete with the DAWs and make their offer appealing, and it looks like they've shot themselves in the foot here. At the very least you want a unit like this to be rock solid and able to perfectly deliver exactly what it promises, and this is clearly not the case. Disappointing.
Rant: Roland needs serious help with software development. I LOVE their hardware; but then it's let down by their accompanying apps, or software, etc. They updated the Ax-Edge app ONCE, and t broke the bluetooth connectivity to the app that ur suppose to use to edit patches with, AND hw you load on expansion banks on the synth (still works, but not how the manual says anymore). My workaround was a double cable connection of midi-out to usb type C. Ironically only the app can't pick up the bluetooth midi- my PC can; but we can't edit in any way shape or form on PC. Only the app, or the synth itself; but the synth has a LED text based menu; tedious as heck to edit; albeit not impossible/ the hardest thing to do. And Lord forbid we hit the Back arrow on or phones or tablets; as that quits the app entirely--- 30mins into a really neat patch you made? Gonna have to start over =T Like why they don't make desktop apps or vsts etc to accompany their stuff instead blows my mind-- especially for the price they charge for the hardware. My fave darn instrument; and it's helped me become a better musician, and know how to work any synth (since I had to learn the functions to edit) ; but as another viewer mentioned-- this is the last piece of hardware I'd actually buy from them over another company's unless they fix the software issues. Like ur polyphony issue is a really silly oversight; and one that doesn't exist for us Ax users; even tho we are using the same Zen-core engine.
Damn, yeah. It looks like you have really been through all the similar nonsense. I had Roland Cloud for 2 years, and only used it once, to look around. I was going to do a video on it, but it was too much of a mess, and not worth the effort...kind of like producing in the Fantom has become. Roland is far too big of a company, and have been around far too long to have these types of issues.
It hasn't been completely resolved, but it has been improved enough to make a difference. I did a stress test after upgrading and the Fantom could definitely handle a lot more than before.
You are better off buying a 2019 Fantom and paying $200 for the EX Upgrade. There is no difference in the hardware to justify the "new" keyboards, but the update is definitely an improvement, especially if you don't already have the n/zyme.
I just saw they put a firmware update out this month, but I never received an email or heard any news about it. Doesn't matter...the Fantom is in the rear view, at this point.
@@WmBarrettSimmsMusic No doubt. It took a while to record/stem all of my projects into the DAW, but once I was done, that was it. Crazy they are barely now getting to a firmware update, after all this time.
I believe the issue is more about your excessive expectations rather than what a workstation is for. A Virus Ti2 had the same "problem" around 90 voices, 16 parts. But the reality was something else
Definitely. Roland really oversells this machine to do more than what it is actually capable of doing. I try to have somewhat reasonable expectations, but this is just one of the many issues. For the price tag, you should be able to handle small projects, but the polyphony jumps in the piano, too. I have another video coming, going into all the details about the partials, CPU, etc. and fixes. Thanks for the comment
He doesn't have excessive expectations. He has intelligent & logical & reasonable expectations. Jorge Sanchez, what you have is low standards. You can get 1000 voices running on a 16 core AMD 7950X, and you can build THREE of those workstations for the price of this Roland. This Roland is a joke, it's got the DSP processing power of a 2005 PC. Roland is ripping you off, they make massive profit on this unit. They're using a cheap budget System-on-Chip that they stockpiled from 15 years ago.
@@zyxyuv1650 Thank you for your kind words. There is a level of professionalism that is not considered by a lot of these companies, as if we are simply a bunch of dummies who don't understand the gear, technology, or finance. Many of us are adults who have worked in these industries for years, and understand them more than the company itself. Maybe not the inner workings of their specific operations, but we know what things cost, and the business of it all. If it couldn't be done, why does the technology exist in other gear? Roland especially. They make several synths that don't have these issues, samplers with time stretching, and affordable units that are heavy in sonics. They specifically made these decisions, not for the benefit of the music or the customer, but for their profit margins. That is business, we get it, but it is like I have said...we are not your average customers. Our understanding is more than most, especially those who have been involved in music, for so many years.
@@zyxyuv1650 You don't get. In 2020. A workstation is not meant to replace a pc. 25 years ago, yes, but not in 2020. The Famtom use the same dsp from the Jupiter X/XM. It's just have 2 more dsp dedicaded to other computation. Long story short exactly the same dsp power and same limitation. A workstation is not a band in box, is not a daw
@@zyxyuv1650 but the thing is all those DSPs in those boxes can’t compete with any CPU on a PC, Mac or even iPad. That is just a lost game. So I think Akai is maybe smarter with the MPC line in using a stock ARM CPU. If it is too weak they could bring an upgraded model with a faster CPU and they benefit from the development from CPUs.
Nice! I saw the Fantom 6 that low on Amazon and couldn't believe it. You should definitely get your money's worth out of it. Although they haven't fixed it, some of the updates improved the stability of the polyphony, so it shouldn't be as bad. Good luck
@@VIRALBEATS360 I opened it last night. I have never been so disappointed with a Roland keyboard. The first Fantom was better than this thing. The pianos and keyboards are awful. My DS sounds better than this. My only hope is that the upgrade will make it worth keeping, but I might just send it back.
@@martinduffy5826 Yeah, the Fantom sound is really lacking without the upgrade. As far as sonics are concerned, your best bet is to plug it into outboard gear or an interface with a decent preamp. Hopefully you could get some use out of the keyboard. I don't know why, but TH-cam wouldn't let me see your comment. I found it in the YT Studio app. Sorry about that.
I keep trying to like the new Roland stuff but it seems to me that most of them are expensive controllers running the same Roland Cloud software - there are some exceptions though.
Roland is definitely attempting to be uniform with their hardware and the Cloud. That is what makes the WC-1 not being compatible with their Flagship, so much more egregious. I don't mind playing ball with their agenda, if it actually worked as intended. Instead, we end up paying all of this money, while they attempt to figure it all out. Great for profits, terrible for customers.
When I play just the synth edge scene, it just stops playing and I just get clicks, even if I switch to another scene and back again. This software is buggy.
I'm no expert on anything, but it looks like Roland was trying to create a workstation and a stage keyboard in one unit and it looks like they have failed. The fantom is probably great on stage with the quick change of instruments, but in the studio, it is lacking as a workstation, that's what it looks like to me but like I said I'm no expert, on the other hand the Akai key 61 is an excellent workstation in the studio but it's not good for the stage, maybe I'm right maybe I'm wrong, that's just my suspicion. Thank you and have a nice day..
I think that is pretty much it...maybe one of the reasons Roland was hesitant to call it a workstation, for the first three years. The flip side to that, is that stage key players are also running into these issues, on a regular basis. In Roland's embarrassment, they released the O Series. However, it too, runs into these same polyphony issues. Thanks for the comment. I don't know why TH-cam held it in review, but could make a couple of guesses.
Actually Not at all… People Keep calling the Fantom a workstation, when there site clearly labels it as a SYNTHESIZER.. you Guys should be Convinced by now It is a Synthesizer with a sequencer
Well back in the 90s and early 2000s when computing power was limited MPCs and Workstations made sense that were more powerful. By today's standards computers are much faster and latency became less of an issue making MPCs and Workstation keyboards less relevant these days given that most of the Music Industry has shifted to the DAW. Workstations are more tailored towards gigging musicians these days. I use to be a former gospel giging myself as the keyboard player in the church. I stopped sequencing on hardware all together after my MPC 5000 broke and lost 8 years worth o beats because no power supply exist for it anymore on the market. I switched out all my workstation keyboards with rack mount versions as I have MOTIF Rack-ES, Fantom-XR, Integra-7, Proteus 2000 and Mo Phatt moduels that sequence all in Studio One in conjunction with modern soft synths like Omnisphere making mysetup Hybrid. The Presonus Atom drum pad controller replaced My MPC5000 and I down sized down to two Roland Midi controllers the A-88 and the PCR-800. I also got the Korg Triton software. I basically own every sound used in the 90s and early 2000s.
That is a lot of work to lose, ouch! I definitely agree with you on this one. When I first began to experience these issues with the Fantom, I started to worry about losing all of my projects to the hardware, and scrambled to pull the 300+ projects I had created. Studio One has been a great transition from Logic Pro, but I really thought I would be able to remain within the workstation, at first. 16 bit exporting brought me to the interface, then I began stemming. Now I barely use the Fantom as a drum machine and MIDI controller. Hybrid is definitely the way to go. I am going to grab an Osmose for expressiveness, and probably do the same with racks. As a matter of fact, I have recently been considering an S-900. This past year or so has really opened me up to digital synthesizers like Cherry Audio and such. Also considering the Atom to trigger Serato Sample. How do you like it...the feel of the pads, and all?
@@VIRALBEATS360 Yes which is why I stopped buying Akai/InMusic products all together due to the decline in Quality control. I don't even why I bought the 5000 even after all the software bugs that gotten fixed but then turns out it also has well known hardware issues. It was one of the worst MPCs ever made hense why Just Blaze complained how bad it was. The power supply failue is a known issue that's all over the web and the MPC forum's as they are known to overheat and fail. They were poorly designed. It's the same power supply found in the Alesis Fusion HD keyboard that was also a flop go figure as they went bad too. My studio partner use to own the original Akai 49 key midi controller and the keys would pop out. I also heard reports of the MPC X having screen failue issue. Is just not the same company anymore after Akai Professional went out of business in. Numark bought the aka brand name and it's asset that took over and the quality has went down hill every since. All the MPCs from the 90s under the real Akai Japanese company hat Roger Linn worked for were way better made!
@@VIRALBEATS360 The Japanese has far superior quality control. Never one had an issue with any of my Roland or Yamah Synthesizers. Even E-MU quality control is really good to for an American at the time. All of my hardware synths that are over 20plus years old out lasted my MPC5000 which is damn same. I do still have my MOTIF ES6 keyboard that's in the closet but I have 11 years worth of beats I need to get off of it which is very tedious process of manually convetering my projects files over to MIDI and I have thoses of beats. I plan on moving all the midi over to Studio One while my MOTIF Rack-ES takes over. I think sequencing in the DAW is a much better work flow coming off hardware sequencing over the years as it's so much easier to peice a whole track together as you can the MIDI tracks and midi notes on a big computer screen. Hardware, its a pain in he as with a tiny as screen and menus you have to dive through that takes to long. I can copy and paste the chorus and verse in Studio One with in seconds. My setup is actually pretty similar to J.R Rotem's setup as you doesn't make beats on hardware either. He uses his wall of workstation keyboards as sound modules while does have many of the same rack mount sound I own as well. But he sequences all of his MIDI in Protools he's been making beats in Protools for over 20plus years. We both have our hardware synths connected to MOTU MIDI interfaces. If I want to get that analog warmth and saturation I run my hardware synths or soft synths though my analog outboard gear for color and punch like Dr. Dre. One of the reasons I still have a E-MU Proteus 2000 and the Mo Phatt is because of the sonics that has a Lo-Fi warmth sound you can't replicate with VSTs which takes you back to the MPC XSE conversion with E-A Ski lacking sonics. The drums are very warm and phatt sounding on the old E-MU modules.
@@VIRALBEATS360 In response to the Atom controller. I like it a lot. Still keep the MPC feel but with in a DAW that's more flexible. The pads are really good as they a very sensitive similar to the Machine. They do have stiff feel to them compared to the MPC I use to own but but the responsiveness makes up for that. Kinda really say the same for the Akai MPD pad controllers that requires a lot force to trigger notes. Yet again more quality issues reported esp with newer MPDs having ghost note issues. I'm sure you read about that. Just Wish Roger Linn would purchase the Akai band from Numark/InMusic and that will solve a lot of Quality issues. Plus The owner of Numark/InMusic did Roger Linn dirty that blocked him from paying out royalties. I thought of buying the NI Machine but it seems more tailored to using NI poducts rather than a general MIDI pad controller. The Atom just made sense yisng Studio One.
@@eman0828 Not only did I read about it, I experienced it firsthand, with both of my previous MPD's. Thanks for getting back to me on that. With how many people are now using Studio, only a few have the controllers. I really didn't like the SQ, but never got the pads, because I had an MPC Live 2, at the time. I was thinking something similar about Akai. I know Roger Linn is more into innovation, rather than revisiting older creations, and maybe that is where they parted ways. Jack definitely did him dirty. Anytime you dismantle a company, keep the same name, and continue a product...then effectively lock out the inventor, it will not end well. This may be the moment that karma catches up. They could have at least called it Akai 2, or Akai Lite, so people know it is a different brand. I really don't agree with them exploiting the 35th Anniversary, when they just bought names and patents. I thought about Maschine, myself, and was going to give Native Instruments about a year, but then I started with UVI, which is much better. That said, I still need something to control Serato Sample. Thanks for the input. I appreciate it.
I remember a kid at school called Roland. he was the disappointing fat kid 🤣 and now everyone is fat and disappointing 😂. Roland, Akai, Maschine.TE.....
but what else is there? Why do manufacturers always cut corners instead of deliver the ultimate experience for heavy users? Greed i suppose. They want to leave a little out so they can deliver 20 years later and thus stay relevant. Are developers of these synths even modern electronic musicians? Doubtful. I think they keep developing these keyboards with a perrformaing musician in mind who only will play 2 or 3 parts at a time in song. Studio musicians are trying to use these boards to create entire tracks at once. Roland, Yamaha they make the same mistakes in this department.
You're exactly right. However, from what I am told, the Fantom fails in a lot of live situations, well. I think it is great for sound design, but Roland is living in the past. The Fantom has a little bit of everything, but no new sound. While the n/zyme has some originality, the sounds are just as limited as the keyboard, leaving it up to the user to sample and create their own sounds. It would be great if they included time stretching for the sampler, or performance pads that could be recorded into a project. Roland silently put an update out there that supposedly resolves some of these polyphony issues, minor bug fixes, but that is about it. I think Ronald is moving on with a new Fantom. It is too late, though...they lost a lot of trust and credibility with their customers, and so many already decided to pass on this version. I most certainly will pass on the next one.
! SOLUTION. You can sample your backing tracks into Fantom's pads or its keys (for sequencing). You can resample an unlimited number of layers. You can even add additional multi-effects after sampling. Fantom even handles multisampling for huge multi-layered instruments that are played live.
You definitely could do that, sure. My problem is that it shouldn't be necessary. Like I said, there are a few work arounds, but they completely take you out of the creative workflow. There is also the issue with it being seemingly random, to where you wouldn't be able to predetermine which instruments are going to be affected. The whole concept of a workstation is a seamless workflow, not needing to change it, depending on the type of music or instruments being used. Like no time stretching in the sampler, it kind of defeats the purpose. I will elaborate on all of this in my final thoughts about spending the last two and a half years with this keyboard.
You get what you pay for if you want more you have to get a second. Stop complaining because what you get is a unique sound quality! The drums alone are worth the $3500.00. This keyboard is worth more than you think.
Not with Roland devaluing the resale, with the release of the Fantom EX hardware...it is literally worth around $2,000, now. The drums are one of the low points of the Fantom and the only unique sound is the n/zyme, or whatever sounds you create on your own. Everything else is from old synthesizers that are not unique to the Fantom. As far as "sound quality" goes, it takes an analog mixer or a decent interface, just to bring the sonics up to par... Of course, none of this addresses the polyphony issues that still exist, post EX Upgrade. With unstable polyphony, it doesn't matter what it sounds like, if you cannot play or record without incident..it's a roll of the dice, every time. That doesn't sound like the performance of a flagship keyboard. I've had the Fantom long enough to understand its value, and have been making music long enough to find this unacceptable, especially from a legacy company like Roland. Your statement sounds like the exact thing they would say...it is totally indicative of their attitude towards their customers
🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴 I CAN probably help; could you please give me a full listing of every patch for each track that you were using the exact instrument and I’ll follow up 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
You must be thinking of DAW's, haha. All jokes aside, workstations are definitely meant to perform better than this, and the polyphony is supposed to be able to cover their own patches. It's not like these are custom samples. That said, if they were, they wouldn't be time-stretched...
A lot of people dont believe …. ( i hope they believe now) Roland forgot to finish this keyboard. Have you listen to the brass Sounds?? And guitars? OMG Even thee medeli AKX 10 sounds better. I advise everybody to keep their FA or Roland Fantom X or Fantom G ( the last known good configuration of Roland flagships . OMG What happend wint Roland. In bought this Fantom 6 Twice …. I sold it twice? If only for MainStage...? you can buy it....
@@seriocoster Yeah, it is pretty sad...especially now that they have essentially taken all of their unsold Fantoms, updated them to the EX Upgrade, then reintroduced it to the market as something new...still with these same issues. I mentioned during our last livestream how the n/zyme makes up for half of the EX, and that was introduced more than 2 years ago. Roland's WC-1 adapter isn't even compatible with their flagship. That, to me, is completely insane...just like their outright refusal to add the most requested feature from the previous Fantom's...time stretching. The sounds may have improved, but there is nothing new in the EX, and still the same issues with the hardware. The Fantom has been Roland's biggest blunder, and their reputation is forever tarnished, as a result. Roland didn't even mention their flagship on the 50th Anniversary...what does that tell you?
@@VIRALBEATS360 I think they realize it now. I think.they went to really play this thing and discovered themselves what we are saying here. You know what they did way more better than the NEW FANTOM ?? The Roland GO KEYS 5 and GO KEYS 3 ...... The sounds have 💯 % more life than the sounds on the Fantom. I bought 2 Go Keys... Not 1 No I bought 2 I wish they had put the Go Keys sounds and feeling in the Fantom. The strings The Brass Etc. Even the Guitars sounds better on the Go Keys. In the end is about the sounds ( characteristics, inspiration , feeling, brightness, intelligence, Velocity, aftertouch, Intelligent polyphony) All missing on some crucial.sounds on the fantom. If they had put the sounds of the old Roland fantom G in the Fantom O or the FANTOM I would buy it three times
This keyboard has just about the same polyphony as any flagship workstation out right now. The Montage has the same polyphony. It just means that when layering or making beats you should use midi in the computer to play the board and not the onboard sequencer that Roland is dialing back because not many users of their products use the sequencer anymore. I have played Roland for years and never has a polyphony problem live or in the studio.
The Montage has the same polyphony on paper. How the Montage and Fantom count voices of polyphony is different meaning in practice you’ll run out of polyphony on the Roland before the Montage.
Your response doesn’t make sense? Even if you use a DAW for midi sequencing you’re still using the Fantom as an external tone generator, so you’d still run into polyphony problems.
The polophony on matters if you plan on using all of those sounds at once. If I'm using a DAW print the sounds and move on. No need to keep playing the sequence through the board. @@squeakD
What is the purpose of this thing? The only reason I could think of to use it if you wanted to create some patches while your computer and analog synths are shut down for the night. But I don't see you primarily editing patches. Using this thing you just end up with a bunch of sounds coming out of 6 channels instead of 40 channels like they would have been in your DAW using separate plugins for parts. Then you have to use up almost a whole A/D converter worth of inputs for this. Seems like more of a unit for boomers to bring to a gig performing Dad-style electronic music. If you want Roland sounds just run the Zenology plugin. It doesn't have the polyphony problems, you can easily do massive amount of voices there. Besides old dads, this unit is probably also for "Beat makers" who do very simplistic stuff, they are impressed by being able to make a sound and record a stereo output or something.
Unfortunately, I think you are right, on a lot of these points. The Fantom was designed more towards live performances, and Roland counts on their midlife customers, for sure. The thing that really bugs me out, is that I still don't think the Fantom is compatible with the WC-1 USB, that connects to your Cloud account, so you could play everything on your keyboard. It was first only on the Jupiter X, then the new Juno...but not their flagship? It has been a couple years, too. Roland's response to all of their flagship problems was to make a less expensive Fantom, with only minor differences between the two. Meanwhile, no firmware update. The professionals who use this keyboard have similar issues, including with live performances. It took Roland a few years to even commit to calling it a workstation, and labeled it a synthesizer. There was a huge debate about it, and now they call it a workstation/synthesizer.
It's funny how our expectations and experiences correlate. It's my first and definitely my last Roland "Flagship". I'd go so far saying it's the biggest disappointment and worst buying decision in terms of value-for-money I've made in the last 20 years. It's unbelievable how you can make decent hardware and ruin it all with the software concept and quality.
I completely agree. And to have these issues still exist on Roland's 50th Anniversary, with no firmware update, is shameful. Thank you for the comment. It has been pinned to the comment section.
It’s this polyphony issue that has me decided on the Montage M. Sorry Roland - what gives…😑
@@mucy2807 which costs the double
Agreed! I can so relate to this video! I bought the Fantom 7 in 2019, to both play live and to be the centerpiece of my production studio, and the polyphony issue in both situations drove me to get an M1 Macbook and bring in Logic Pro and Mainstage! So frustrating! I also recently picked up a MPC Key 61, and I do love the Fantom as a controller, but I am disappointed when it comes to polyphony!
How do you like the MPC Key 61, in comparison? I know it's not a metal chassis, but pads and a sampler! I was really eyeballing it when it was released, but the expressiveness of the Osmose is what I am truly after.
Workstation keyboards today are more tailored towards gigging musicians not so much production. most of the music industry shifted to the DAW given its more powerful than any MPC or workstation keyboard made today. back in the 90s and early 2000 owning a workstation keyboard or an MPC made total sense when computing power was limited and latency was an issue. Just coming off hardware sequencing just 4 months ago, I stopped sequencing on hardware all together being both an MPC and workstation user for many years. I went back to sequencing in the DAW and gotten rid of most of my workstation keyboards and switched out with rack mount sound module versions of them. I own about 5 different sound modules. I threw my MPC 5000 in the trash now that I'm hybrid using a mixture of modern soft synths and hardware Rompler sound modules in studio one. My Presonus atom drum pad controller replaced my MPC 5000 that was a piece of junk that had a lot of issues.
You may be a nobody, but this nobody (with cash in hand) is happy that I found this. Nobodies united!
I was ready to buy but.......moving on.
Holy hell now I’m nervous and thinking I should cancel my order. I just ordered the Fantom 06, and am now seeing polyphony complaints on it as well. Is it really this bad? Can the Fantom line not even handle simple multitrack sequencing without running out of poly with just a few tracks? I was planning on hooking it up to a DAW for midi sequencing, but now I’m really worried because I write a lot of Ostinato music. I was planning on using its higher quality tones along with the Complete Orchestra Expansion, but now I’m worried the Fantom won’t be able to handle this without choking. I just gave up a Roland Integra 7 because I absolutely cannot get that to work with my DAW’s for midi sequencing. Do I need to just consider walking away from Roland?
This video change my mind about this Fantom badly....
Be thankful it did before spending all that money.
I have talked a few people out of this mess, that is for sure. Roland should have done better... they should care more about their flagship and the people who own them.
Poliphony will be least of your problems...
This synth would be good 20 years ago, roland doesn't even fix the bugs in the platform.
They live on technology and sounds from the past, zero evolution.
@@VIRALBEATS360 it is not a surprise at all. I have the MC-707 and you can easily run into polyphony problems as soon as you dare to touch the Unison setting in the synth and play chords (with other tracks playing). I only thought the Fantom is so much more powerful that it is maybe not an issue there given the price difference.
I think the ACB machines like the System 8 are better. The polyphony is low with 8 voices but it is a synth, not a workstation and, more important it has always 8 voices guaranteed, like an analog synth, unlike those ZenCore machines which is more of a gamble.
@@mudi2000a I think that is the main issue with all of this; It is Roland's flagship keyboard/workstation. In theory, it should outperform everything else they have available, and be able to handle more than just a few tracks. Why even include a Unison switch, if every time you touch it, the polyphony maxes out? Why develop a wave table expansion that the keyboard cannot even handle? It seems to me that even Roland views their flagship as being able to handle these things, and they really sell it as a power house. The reality though, is that in practice, this keyboard really underperforms. Roland doesn't even concern themselves with working on an update, because they know it cannot be fixed. If it could, they would have already. I think they are working on a replacement, instead. I could be way off base, but it has been more than a year since the last firmware update. Even on their 50th anniversary, Roland did absolutely nothing for their flagship, or its customers...they just keep releasing new products, some with these very same issues.
I had the exact same issue with my Roland D20 back in the late 80's, and here we are with it still in 2024.
This seems like a great missed opportunity for Roland as I think there are a lot of folk like me who are tired of working on a PC with VSTs etc. and are looking to go back to more streamlined/stable easy to use workstations like this, even if the options are more limited (which in some ways is more desirable, less analysis paralysis).
But the problem is, is that the hardware specs and storage in these units it's laughable compared with even fairly basic modern PCs, so they really need to up their game in this area to compete with the DAWs and make their offer appealing, and it looks like they've shot themselves in the foot here.
At the very least you want a unit like this to be rock solid and able to perfectly deliver exactly what it promises, and this is clearly not the case. Disappointing.
Rant:
Roland needs serious help with software development. I LOVE their hardware; but then it's let down by their accompanying apps, or software, etc.
They updated the Ax-Edge app ONCE, and t broke the bluetooth connectivity to the app that ur suppose to use to edit patches with, AND hw you load on expansion banks on the synth (still works, but not how the manual says anymore). My workaround was a double cable connection of midi-out to usb type C. Ironically only the app can't pick up the bluetooth midi- my PC can; but we can't edit in any way shape or form on PC. Only the app, or the synth itself; but the synth has a LED text based menu; tedious as heck to edit; albeit not impossible/ the hardest thing to do.
And Lord forbid we hit the Back arrow on or phones or tablets; as that quits the app entirely--- 30mins into a really neat patch you made? Gonna have to start over =T
Like why they don't make desktop apps or vsts etc to accompany their stuff instead blows my mind-- especially for the price they charge for the hardware. My fave darn instrument; and it's helped me become a better musician, and know how to work any synth (since I had to learn the functions to edit) ; but as another viewer mentioned-- this is the last piece of hardware I'd actually buy from them over another company's unless they fix the software issues. Like ur polyphony issue is a really silly oversight; and one that doesn't exist for us Ax users; even tho we are using the same Zen-core engine.
Damn, yeah. It looks like you have really been through all the similar nonsense. I had Roland Cloud for 2 years, and only used it once, to look around. I was going to do a video on it, but it was too much of a mess, and not worth the effort...kind of like producing in the Fantom has become. Roland is far too big of a company, and have been around far too long to have these types of issues.
FANTOM will be upgraded to FANTOM EX soon, will this problem be resolved? Or will Roland continue to have this problem?
It hasn't been completely resolved, but it has been improved enough to make a difference. I did a stress test after upgrading and the Fantom could definitely handle a lot more than before.
@@VIRALBEATS360 How much of an improvement is it in EX?
Is it worth paying $4000?
How much of an improvement is it in EX?
Is it worth paying $4000?
You are better off buying a 2019 Fantom and paying $200 for the EX Upgrade. There is no difference in the hardware to justify the "new" keyboards, but the update is definitely an improvement, especially if you don't already have the n/zyme.
Have you tried the new firmware update? They claim the polyphony issues has been improved.
I just saw they put a firmware update out this month, but I never received an email or heard any news about it. Doesn't matter...the Fantom is in the rear view, at this point.
@@VIRALBEATS360 I don't blame you. I would have returned that the second I saw the issue.
@@WmBarrettSimmsMusic No doubt. It took a while to record/stem all of my projects into the DAW, but once I was done, that was it. Crazy they are barely now getting to a firmware update, after all this time.
Can anyone confirm this firmware update adresses this issue?
I believe the issue is more about your excessive expectations rather than what a workstation is for.
A Virus Ti2 had the same "problem" around 90 voices, 16 parts. But the reality was something else
Definitely. Roland really oversells this machine to do more than what it is actually capable of doing. I try to have somewhat reasonable expectations, but this is just one of the many issues. For the price tag, you should be able to handle small projects, but the polyphony jumps in the piano, too. I have another video coming, going into all the details about the partials, CPU, etc. and fixes. Thanks for the comment
He doesn't have excessive expectations. He has intelligent & logical & reasonable expectations.
Jorge Sanchez, what you have is low standards.
You can get 1000 voices running on a 16 core AMD 7950X, and you can build THREE of those workstations for the price of this Roland.
This Roland is a joke, it's got the DSP processing power of a 2005 PC. Roland is ripping you off, they make massive profit on this unit.
They're using a cheap budget System-on-Chip that they stockpiled from 15 years ago.
@@zyxyuv1650 Thank you for your kind words. There is a level of professionalism that is not considered by a lot of these companies, as if we are simply a bunch of dummies who don't understand the gear, technology, or finance. Many of us are adults who have worked in these industries for years, and understand them more than the company itself. Maybe not the inner workings of their specific operations, but we know what things cost, and the business of it all. If it couldn't be done, why does the technology exist in other gear? Roland especially. They make several synths that don't have these issues, samplers with time stretching, and affordable units that are heavy in sonics.
They specifically made these decisions, not for the benefit of the music or the customer, but for their profit margins. That is business, we get it, but it is like I have said...we are not your average customers. Our understanding is more than most, especially those who have been involved in music, for so many years.
@@zyxyuv1650 You don't get.
In 2020. A workstation is not meant to replace a pc.
25 years ago, yes, but not in 2020.
The Famtom use the same dsp from the Jupiter X/XM.
It's just have 2 more dsp dedicaded to other computation.
Long story short exactly the same dsp power and same limitation.
A workstation is not a band in box, is not a daw
@@zyxyuv1650 but the thing is all those DSPs in those boxes can’t compete with any CPU on a PC, Mac or even iPad. That is just a lost game. So I think Akai is maybe smarter with the MPC line in using a stock ARM CPU. If it is too weak they could bring an upgraded model with a faster CPU and they benefit from the development from CPUs.
It’s a shame. That’s a sick loop. I just bought a Fantom 6, but I got it for 2500, so I hope it’s at least worth that.
Nice! I saw the Fantom 6 that low on Amazon and couldn't believe it. You should definitely get your money's worth out of it. Although they haven't fixed it, some of the updates improved the stability of the polyphony, so it shouldn't be as bad. Good luck
@@VIRALBEATS360 Thanks.
@@VIRALBEATS360 I opened it last night. I have never been so disappointed with a Roland keyboard. The first Fantom was better than this thing. The pianos and keyboards are awful. My DS sounds better than this. My only hope is that the upgrade will make it worth keeping, but I might just send it back.
@@martinduffy5826 Yeah, the Fantom sound is really lacking without the upgrade. As far as sonics are concerned, your best bet is to plug it into outboard gear or an interface with a decent preamp. Hopefully you could get some use out of the keyboard.
I don't know why, but TH-cam wouldn't let me see your comment. I found it in the YT Studio app. Sorry about that.
I keep trying to like the new Roland stuff but it seems to me that most of them are expensive controllers running the same Roland Cloud software - there are some exceptions though.
Roland is definitely attempting to be uniform with their hardware and the Cloud. That is what makes the WC-1 not being compatible with their Flagship, so much more egregious. I don't mind playing ball with their agenda, if it actually worked as intended. Instead, we end up paying all of this money, while they attempt to figure it all out. Great for profits, terrible for customers.
Hopefully the will have an update they been having this is issue since I brought my G back in the early 2000s
Oh, wow. I knew this was an older problem, but 20+ years without a fix, is ridiculous... especially with today's technology
When I play just the synth edge scene, it just stops playing and I just get clicks, even if I switch to another scene and back again. This software is buggy.
That really sucks. It is definitely a problem. Roland really needs to prioritize fixing these issues.
I'm no expert on anything, but it looks like Roland was trying to create a workstation and a stage keyboard in one unit and it looks like they have failed. The fantom is probably great on stage with the quick change of instruments, but in the studio, it is lacking as a workstation, that's what it looks like to me but like I said I'm no expert, on the other hand the Akai key 61 is an excellent workstation in the studio but it's not good for the stage, maybe I'm right maybe I'm wrong, that's just my suspicion. Thank you and have a nice day..
I think that is pretty much it...maybe one of the reasons Roland was hesitant to call it a workstation, for the first three years. The flip side to that, is that stage key players are also running into these issues, on a regular basis. In Roland's embarrassment, they released the O Series. However, it too, runs into these same polyphony issues. Thanks for the comment. I don't know why TH-cam held it in review, but could make a couple of guesses.
Actually Not at all…
People Keep calling the Fantom a workstation, when there site clearly labels it as a SYNTHESIZER.. you Guys should be Convinced by now
It is a Synthesizer with a sequencer
This is a real SHAME. WOW Roland
Well back in the 90s and early 2000s when computing power was limited MPCs and Workstations made sense that were more powerful. By today's standards computers are much faster and latency became less of an issue making MPCs and Workstation keyboards less relevant these days given that most of the Music Industry has shifted to the DAW. Workstations are more tailored towards gigging musicians these days. I use to be a former gospel giging myself as the keyboard player in the church. I stopped sequencing on hardware all together after my MPC 5000 broke and lost 8 years worth o beats because no power supply exist for it anymore on the market. I switched out all my workstation keyboards with rack mount versions as I have MOTIF Rack-ES, Fantom-XR, Integra-7, Proteus 2000 and Mo Phatt moduels that sequence all in Studio One in conjunction with modern soft synths like Omnisphere making mysetup Hybrid. The Presonus Atom drum pad controller replaced My MPC5000 and I down sized down to two Roland Midi controllers the A-88 and the PCR-800. I also got the Korg Triton software. I basically own every sound used in the 90s and early 2000s.
That is a lot of work to lose, ouch! I definitely agree with you on this one. When I first began to experience these issues with the Fantom, I started to worry about losing all of my projects to the hardware, and scrambled to pull the 300+ projects I had created. Studio One has been a great transition from Logic Pro, but I really thought I would be able to remain within the workstation, at first. 16 bit exporting brought me to the interface, then I began stemming. Now I barely use the Fantom as a drum machine and MIDI controller. Hybrid is definitely the way to go. I am going to grab an Osmose for expressiveness, and probably do the same with racks. As a matter of fact, I have recently been considering an S-900. This past year or so has really opened me up to digital synthesizers like Cherry Audio and such. Also considering the Atom to trigger Serato Sample. How do you like it...the feel of the pads, and all?
@@VIRALBEATS360 Yes which is why I stopped buying Akai/InMusic products all together due to the decline in Quality control. I don't even why I bought the 5000 even after all the software bugs that gotten fixed but then turns out it also has well known hardware issues. It was one of the worst MPCs ever made hense why Just Blaze complained how bad it was. The power supply failue is a known issue that's all over the web and the MPC forum's as they are known to overheat and fail. They were poorly designed. It's the same power supply found in the Alesis Fusion HD keyboard that was also a flop go figure as they went bad too. My studio partner use to own the original Akai 49 key midi controller and the keys would pop out. I also heard reports of the MPC X having screen failue issue. Is just not the same company anymore after Akai Professional went out of business in. Numark bought the aka brand name and it's asset that took over and the quality has went down hill every since. All the MPCs from the 90s under the real Akai Japanese company hat Roger Linn worked for were way better made!
@@VIRALBEATS360 The Japanese has far superior quality control. Never one had an issue with any of my Roland or Yamah Synthesizers. Even E-MU quality control is really good to for an American at the time. All of my hardware synths that are over 20plus years old out lasted my MPC5000 which is damn same. I do still have my MOTIF ES6 keyboard that's in the closet but I have 11 years worth of beats I need to get off of it which is very tedious process of manually convetering my projects files over to MIDI and I have thoses of beats. I plan on moving all the midi over to Studio One while my MOTIF Rack-ES takes over. I think sequencing in the DAW is a much better work flow coming off hardware sequencing over the years as it's so much easier to peice a whole track together as you can the MIDI tracks and midi notes on a big computer screen. Hardware, its a pain in he as with a tiny as screen and menus you have to dive through that takes to long. I can copy and paste the chorus and verse in Studio One with in seconds. My setup is actually pretty similar to J.R Rotem's setup as you doesn't make beats on hardware either. He uses his wall of workstation keyboards as sound modules while does have many of the same rack mount sound I own as well. But he sequences all of his MIDI in Protools he's been making beats in Protools for over 20plus years. We both have our hardware synths connected to MOTU MIDI interfaces. If I want to get that analog warmth and saturation I run my hardware synths or soft synths though my analog outboard gear for color and punch like Dr. Dre. One of the reasons I still have a E-MU Proteus 2000 and the Mo Phatt is because of the sonics that has a Lo-Fi warmth sound you can't replicate with VSTs which takes you back to the MPC XSE conversion with E-A Ski lacking sonics. The drums are very warm and phatt sounding on the old E-MU modules.
@@VIRALBEATS360 In response to the Atom controller. I like it a lot. Still keep the MPC feel but with in a DAW that's more flexible. The pads are really good as they a very sensitive similar to the Machine. They do have stiff feel to them compared to the MPC I use to own but but the responsiveness makes up for that. Kinda really say the same for the Akai MPD pad controllers that requires a lot force to trigger notes. Yet again more quality issues reported esp with newer MPDs having ghost note issues. I'm sure you read about that. Just Wish Roger Linn would purchase the Akai band from Numark/InMusic and that will solve a lot of Quality issues. Plus The owner of Numark/InMusic did Roger Linn dirty that blocked him from paying out royalties. I thought of buying the NI Machine but it seems more tailored to using NI poducts rather than a general MIDI pad controller. The Atom just made sense yisng Studio One.
@@eman0828 Not only did I read about it, I experienced it firsthand, with both of my previous MPD's. Thanks for getting back to me on that. With how many people are now using Studio, only a few have the controllers. I really didn't like the SQ, but never got the pads, because I had an MPC Live 2, at the time. I was thinking something similar about Akai. I know Roger Linn is more into innovation, rather than revisiting older creations, and maybe that is where they parted ways. Jack definitely did him dirty. Anytime you dismantle a company, keep the same name, and continue a product...then effectively lock out the inventor, it will not end well. This may be the moment that karma catches up. They could have at least called it Akai 2, or Akai Lite, so people know it is a different brand. I really don't agree with them exploiting the 35th Anniversary, when they just bought names and patents. I thought about Maschine, myself, and was going to give Native Instruments about a year, but then I started with UVI, which is much better. That said, I still need something to control Serato Sample. Thanks for the input. I appreciate it.
I remember a kid at school called Roland. he was the disappointing fat kid 🤣 and now everyone is fat and disappointing 😂. Roland, Akai, Maschine.TE.....
Haha, great analogy!
but what else is there? Why do manufacturers always cut corners instead of deliver the ultimate experience for heavy users? Greed i suppose. They want to leave a little out so they can deliver 20 years later and thus stay relevant. Are developers of these synths even modern electronic musicians? Doubtful. I think they keep developing these keyboards with a perrformaing musician in mind who only will play 2 or 3 parts at a time in song. Studio musicians are trying to use these boards to create entire tracks at once. Roland, Yamaha they make the same mistakes in this department.
You're exactly right. However, from what I am told, the Fantom fails in a lot of live situations, well. I think it is great for sound design, but Roland is living in the past. The Fantom has a little bit of everything, but no new sound. While the n/zyme has some originality, the sounds are just as limited as the keyboard, leaving it up to the user to sample and create their own sounds. It would be great if they included time stretching for the sampler, or performance pads that could be recorded into a project. Roland silently put an update out there that supposedly resolves some of these polyphony issues, minor bug fixes, but that is about it. I think Ronald is moving on with a new Fantom. It is too late, though...they lost a lot of trust and credibility with their customers, and so many already decided to pass on this version. I most certainly will pass on the next one.
! SOLUTION. You can sample your backing tracks into Fantom's pads or its keys (for sequencing). You can resample an unlimited number of layers. You can even add additional multi-effects after sampling. Fantom even handles multisampling for huge multi-layered instruments that are played live.
You definitely could do that, sure. My problem is that it shouldn't be necessary. Like I said, there are a few work arounds, but they completely take you out of the creative workflow. There is also the issue with it being seemingly random, to where you wouldn't be able to predetermine which instruments are going to be affected. The whole concept of a workstation is a seamless workflow, not needing to change it, depending on the type of music or instruments being used. Like no time stretching in the sampler, it kind of defeats the purpose. I will elaborate on all of this in my final thoughts about spending the last two and a half years with this keyboard.
You get what you pay for if you want more you have to get a second.
Stop complaining because what you get is a unique sound quality!
The drums alone are worth the $3500.00.
This keyboard is worth more than you think.
Not with Roland devaluing the resale, with the release of the Fantom EX hardware...it is literally worth around $2,000, now. The drums are one of the low points of the Fantom and the only unique sound is the n/zyme, or whatever sounds you create on your own. Everything else is from old synthesizers that are not unique to the Fantom. As far as "sound quality" goes, it takes an analog mixer or a decent interface, just to bring the sonics up to par...
Of course, none of this addresses the polyphony issues that still exist, post EX Upgrade. With unstable polyphony, it doesn't matter what it sounds like, if you cannot play or record without incident..it's a roll of the dice, every time. That doesn't sound like the performance of a flagship keyboard. I've had the Fantom long enough to understand its value, and have been making music long enough to find this unacceptable, especially from a legacy company like Roland. Your statement sounds like the exact thing they would say...it is totally indicative of their attitude towards their customers
🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴
I CAN probably help; could you please give me a full listing of every patch for each track that you were using the exact instrument and I’ll follow up 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
✋🏾Hey, still waiting….
I thought the point of workstations was to effectively infinite poly count
You must be thinking of DAW's, haha. All jokes aside, workstations are definitely meant to perform better than this, and the polyphony is supposed to be able to cover their own patches. It's not like these are custom samples. That said, if they were, they wouldn't be time-stretched...
You thought wrong.
A lot of people dont believe …. ( i hope they believe now) Roland forgot to finish this keyboard.
Have you listen to the brass Sounds?? And guitars? OMG Even thee medeli AKX 10 sounds better. I advise everybody to keep their FA or Roland Fantom X or Fantom G ( the last known good configuration of Roland flagships .
OMG What happend wint Roland. In bought this Fantom 6 Twice …. I sold it twice? If only for MainStage...? you can buy it....
@@seriocoster Yeah, it is pretty sad...especially now that they have essentially taken all of their unsold Fantoms, updated them to the EX Upgrade, then reintroduced it to the market as something new...still with these same issues. I mentioned during our last livestream how the n/zyme makes up for half of the EX, and that was introduced more than 2 years ago. Roland's WC-1 adapter isn't even compatible with their flagship. That, to me, is completely insane...just like their outright refusal to add the most requested feature from the previous Fantom's...time stretching. The sounds may have improved, but there is nothing new in the EX, and still the same issues with the hardware. The Fantom has been Roland's biggest blunder, and their reputation is forever tarnished, as a result. Roland didn't even mention their flagship on the 50th Anniversary...what does that tell you?
@@VIRALBEATS360 I think they realize it now.
I think.they went to really play this thing and discovered themselves what we are saying here.
You know what they did way more better than the NEW FANTOM ??
The Roland GO KEYS 5 and GO KEYS 3 ...... The sounds have 💯 % more life than the sounds on the Fantom.
I bought 2 Go Keys...
Not 1
No I bought 2
I wish they had put the Go Keys sounds and feeling in the Fantom.
The strings
The Brass
Etc.
Even the Guitars sounds better on the Go Keys.
In the end is about the sounds ( characteristics, inspiration , feeling, brightness, intelligence, Velocity, aftertouch, Intelligent polyphony)
All missing on some crucial.sounds on the fantom.
If they had put the sounds of the old Roland fantom G in the Fantom O or the FANTOM I would buy it three times
This keyboard has just about the same polyphony as any flagship workstation out right now. The Montage has the same polyphony. It just means that when layering or making beats you should use midi in the computer to play the board and not the onboard sequencer that Roland is dialing back because not many users of their products use the sequencer anymore. I have played Roland for years and never has a polyphony problem live or in the studio.
The Montage has the same polyphony on paper. How the Montage and Fantom count voices of polyphony is different meaning in practice you’ll run out of polyphony on the Roland before the Montage.
Your response doesn’t make sense? Even if you use a DAW for midi sequencing you’re still using the Fantom as an external tone generator, so you’d still run into polyphony problems.
The polophony on matters if you plan on using all of those sounds at once. If I'm using a DAW print the sounds and move on. No need to keep playing the sequence through the board. @@squeakD
What is the purpose of this thing? The only reason I could think of to use it if you wanted to create some patches while your computer and analog synths are shut down for the night. But I don't see you primarily editing patches. Using this thing you just end up with a bunch of sounds coming out of 6 channels instead of 40 channels like they would have been in your DAW using separate plugins for parts. Then you have to use up almost a whole A/D converter worth of inputs for this. Seems like more of a unit for boomers to bring to a gig performing Dad-style electronic music. If you want Roland sounds just run the Zenology plugin. It doesn't have the polyphony problems, you can easily do massive amount of voices there. Besides old dads, this unit is probably also for "Beat makers" who do very simplistic stuff, they are impressed by being able to make a sound and record a stereo output or something.
Unfortunately, I think you are right, on a lot of these points. The Fantom was designed more towards live performances, and Roland counts on their midlife customers, for sure. The thing that really bugs me out, is that I still don't think the Fantom is compatible with the WC-1 USB, that connects to your Cloud account, so you could play everything on your keyboard. It was first only on the Jupiter X, then the new Juno...but not their flagship? It has been a couple years, too. Roland's response to all of their flagship problems was to make a less expensive Fantom, with only minor differences between the two. Meanwhile, no firmware update. The professionals who use this keyboard have similar issues, including with live performances. It took Roland a few years to even commit to calling it a workstation, and labeled it a synthesizer. There was a huge debate about it, and now they call it a workstation/synthesizer.
Disappointing 😑
Indeed