I have a few decks that revolve around commander storm cards, so basically they're designed in the way that if my commander is on the field, it advances my strategy, if opponents kill it, it also advances my strategy, because I get more commander casts. Krark is also perfect commander for such a strategy, because I can harness my terrible luck, so I fail a big majority of my coinflips, and the commander storm cards return to my hand but I still get the copies of the spells.
Luckily there's a lot of back up for Arcades' effect (Walking Bulwark, Assault Formation, High Alert, etc) so it's easier to build in back-up for his effect these days.
This, i noticed my walls deck was getting on this monolithic thing, then started adding more backups for his effect, aside from the ones you mentioned Bedrock Tortoise Huatli, the Sun's Heart Wakestone Gargoyle Rasaad yn Bashir
My Arcades deck is themed as a "city-builder", so I have a gates-sub-theme as an alternate win-con in addition to some back-up effects. Its wall-tribal with very few non-walls (I think its just 2 or 3), and even the basic lands are the stained-glass art to keep with the theme. 😛
@@licidy1 i did try to keep non-walls to a minimum but started to see i needed some support for Arcades' draw or some other utility that has so strong synergy i couldn't just ignore the deck has 36 creatures, out of which 15 are non-walls most are backup draw engines with stuff being Rigo, Streetwise Mentor, Welcoming Vampire, Mentor of the Meek, etc
my personal view has always been to choose a commander's colors you want to play, find a commander who does something you'd like to do *sometimes*, and build the other 99 cards around effects you want to happen *always*. I win games by ensuring my 99 cards can stand on their own without the commander on the field.
Of all the topics you've discussed, I think the concept of monolith commanders is the most important. I have several decks and am systematically working to change them with your comment in mind, "what happens to your deck if your commander is removed?" I have an Urza Lord High Artificer Deck, which goes to crap if it's removed. However, I also have a Baylen deck, which chugs along fine if removed. In fact, when I last played it, my pod joked about whether I was ever going to use it. I only brought it out at the very end to close the game. I like your method 2 concept and am trying to build more around a concept, not the commander.
I'm working on a Sergeant John Benton deck right now, and it will rely more on the commander than almost any other deck. I think when that's the case, you need to have a lot of ways to protect your guy. Hexproof, Indestructible, enchantment removal, and even Homeward Path. Definitely agree that this is an important topic.
With Urza specifically, I find you can usually do quite well by giving him flash. Tap enough artifacts to recast him while he’s being removed and flash him back in.
Well interestingly enough you've actually you've peaked my interest in this regard. For a while now i've heralded a Selvala, Heart of the Wilds Cedh deck that's fallen out of favor as green has gotten worse and worse as time has moved on, whilst the deck is too strong for casual groups i've found it can no longer hang with the big boys at the cedh tables, most commonly the partner thoracle decks, but what you mentioned about untapping effects in Jund which is coincidentally all my favorite colors, maybe i could build a cool Yurlok deck that's essentially a Selvala deck but with red and black upside? seems good to me, thanks for the inspiration! Been a long time watcher and subscriber since the start of covid, and I've always loved the videos you put out. I find these days there's little room for showing appreciation for one another and i just wanted to voice aforementioned appreciation. as far as commander content creators go you might just be the GOAT. keep doing you my man.
Speaking of jund, I recently seen a disa the restless lhurgofy tribal. It was just hard and hefty beats but fast about it. Plus with midrange meta it helps since the things have slowed down.
Everyone would figure this out pretty quickly if the Tuck rule got reinstated. 😂 I have a friend who builds with these hyper focused generals (Yurlok, mono-B Gollum-the “poop finger” deck, Skullbriar, etc.) and instantly the pod’s plan is “kill it with fire”. Ever seen someone cast Gollum for 11? I get wanting to do the cool thing, but sometimes that risk is part of the deal. The kind of thinking that helps with monolith commanders is good for deck building in general. Going wide with 1/1 tokens? Sure, you want anthems, lords, and/or +1/+1 counters to support that, but a Sublime Archangel’s gonna look really good when someone plays a Mirri or Crawlspace. And your extremely tall voltron commander would appreciate some ways to make a small horde of tokens when the other side has Menace or Deathtouch on everything.
Heck, I built a Ramos deck out of a Foundation Starter Collection and even that has 3-4 spells and a plan that's usually get the mana to cast and defend Ramos, and then land him and try to untap with him. And honestly if there's no good cards in my hand to use his +10 mana for I might not even cast him to begin with,
There are two reasons I've listened to your content for quite a while now. Your intro is awesome. The second is the e tire concept. Those deck-enabling commanders are great to introduce players into commander, but going more general with an explosive plans makes the games for enjoyable. Once the deck gets too general, a video you have done before, cut the staples and rebuild towards a strategy that you enjoy. First time comment I think for your channel. Simply saying: keep up the great work on this topic. I hope you get to join some content creators tables so you can flex your stuff.
I've built several decks by now... but, only untill I saw your video on Monolith commanders back then, I realized I made mistakes on at least 4 of them (2 of them even on this video Thumbnail hehe) ... Now, if the strategy doesn't have at least 5 backups for the strategy (Arcades has this and good draw because of the colors), I actively stay away from Monoliths
Set up creatures that pose a threat to the entire board and can snowball out of control, have board wipes or board wipe-like effects. Every color can do something on a grand scale, find those cards and include them as a plan B
In my balen deck a lot of the time I will use him as a counterspell check. If you have 10-15 tokens then everyone knows they're screwed if he hits the board, so you can spend 3 mana, if he doesn't get countered then great, if he does, then that means the overrun in your hand is about to resolve
One of my favorite monolith commanders is Abdel Gordon. When he is about to get destroyed, I can simply blink him in response to removal or a board wipe.
My Narset, Enlightened Exile has some semi-redundant secret commanders in the form of Bria, Riptide Rogue and Balmor, Battlemage Captain in the deck. They synergize with Narset, but they also perform some of the same functions as well. I run a decent amount of protection to keep my commander alive, but I am not dead in the water if she dies.
This is the first question I ask myself when I build a new Commander Deck tbh. It has become this way because, like you, I usually try to build some fringe decks or some particular strategies and my friends (since they usually didn't know what this or that General does) were scared of my new build and started removing my Commander multiple times. The only problem with this, is the fact that some newer and more peculiar ones don't have any "redundancy" effect -yet- (:
I still remember casting Kaalia of the Vast for 22 mana because it got removed so many times. Ironically, this ended up winning me that game. I top decked Lord of the Void and ripped an Archfiend of Despair from the top of the Shadowborn Apostle deck. One of the best memories I have of playing commander. I have rebuilt this Kaalia deck since to be more focused around drawing a bunch of cards and hard casting the big scary creatures in the deck. Kaalia is now just an accelerant. If she gets removed, just pay for things like normal.
Do you have a deck list? I would love to see it! c: Most Kaalia decks I have seen online are cEDH or just the mana curve it built too poorly to operate around her.
It mostly depends on the CMC of your Commander. You may not see it for several turns. And opponents are notorious for Commander targeted removal. If that CMC gets hit with tax a couple of times, you may never see it on the field again this game. So yeah, you need to brew multiple win-cons per deck. Your Edgar deck should have at least four ways to win. Edgar only represents two of those ways...wide and tall. Yet we all know the trick to an Edgar deck is life gain. That's not from Edgar. He just helps build your defenses while you play your life game in safety. Your opponents are busy getting milled, copied, and goaded, while you're on your way to 130 life. Then, when the time is right, you start swinging. And their trample means nothing as you've hit 2oo life and climbing. If you know how to build an Edgar deck, that is.
My solution to monolith commanders is loading up with protection. I play a great deal of white and green which have loads. My other solution is, if you kill my commander, im just gonna commit every single resource i have to make sure you dont win the game now.
I think as a new player evolves, they learn monolith commanders were there to teach them how to make your deck do the thing, but as you get better, you grow, you learn, you realize your 99 is even more important than your commander choice, especially in casual. I have too many decks because most of them are monolith decks, and they suffer exactly as you think they would if you just keep the commander off the field. This video has given some of the best advice I've ever heard. Pick a commander that plays well with your deck; don't pick a commander that needs to be on the field for your deck to function. You'll find good threat assessment calls will shut you down permanently.
I agree: your deck should be able to operate without your commander. I build around my commander but I l always have backups or plans to put in place before my commander is played.
Most of my decks are monolith decks however it seems to work out cause either people don’t kill my commander because it’s not as scary as others or I run a lot of protection spells
Yurlock would be best in a group slug deck where he represents as a mana dork (guaranteed 6 mana the turn after he comes down if not removed) that burns your opponents, effectively a ramped up Zur-Taa Druid. Then you run effects that force your opponents to tap out their lands and other slug effects.
Its still okay to build monolith commanders. Just always keep in mind to put in protection spells and ways to avoid the commander tax with cards like Command Beacon
There are so many commanders I would love to build BUT their mechanics are either unique or poorly replicated by other cards so if they get pushed off the table the deck basically sits there doing nothing. Vihaan, Goldwaker is a great example of this. When I go into combat, all my treasures become 3/3 assassins with haste and vigilance. Very fun concept, if any get blocked I can just sacrifice them, and at the end of my turn they're still creatures so I can also sac them for mana and to get death triggers with things like Grave Pact or Blood Artist. It's a pretty janky deck build, since if I'm making enough treasures to be flinging them en masse at the rest of the table I could be using them to just pay for better creatures, but it's a very fun spin on aristocrats. The problem is, Vihaan is the ONLY card currently in game with such an ability in Mardu colors, so if he gets locked out, the deck just becomes a generic treasure generating deck. I can include an alternate win con like Revel in Riches, or even just a big beater or X spell to dump the treasures into, but IMO that defeats the spirit of the deck, but also there is just so little support for that strategy that relying on Vihaan to get out and stick is just foolish. I really wish they'd focus on including more support for the cards they release in sets. Why make a card like Vihaan if there's no janky redundancy I can slot in to help support a Treasures become Creatures theme? It's not like they have no room among the 200+ cards they release for each set.
Someone pointed it out to me years ago to remember while building that it's a 100 card deck. It's not a 99 card deck with a guaranteed 100th. Build it as if the commander were randomly shuffled into the deck and you'll be good. (I don't always follow this) 😂
Almost all my decks can go the whole game without the commander ever needing to be played. Feels great to have it as a support piece and not the linchpin
I like the Method 2 terminology, did you come up with it? Anyways lately I've been enjoying Method 2 commanders a lot more, when the commander is just one more of the cards and more of a support card where there's more similar cards in the deck that do the same than it, or where the commander goes in a completely different direction than the deck goes, it's fun. When I want to build a commander-centric deck it's complicated to carry, I think there are two kinds of that commander: ETB one shot commander where you want to cast it to do its thing and it's done (Etali, Maelstrom Wanderer) or the Obeka/Yurlok kind of decks you mention. The latter needs a lot of protection for them in my experience. Arcades can in my opinion do a bunch of things without needing to stay around, I once played an Arcades storm and it was crazy, didn't need to play him until I was setup for a big storm turn. But you can always go the wall commander way and try to protect him. Baylen I agree 100% with you, it is a piece of support but it's not vital for a token deck, you can do its thing until someone gets rid of it and bring it again. A funny exercise I do sometimes to see if my deck can win without my commander is switching it to a random different commander with the same colors. Neera is a deck that really doesn't work well for me without it and it's a shame, that's why I try to cast her when I have some sort of protection or a setup that allows me to bring a big threat immediately. A tweak I've tried is adding a crazy bunch of ramp to it to be able to cast the monstrous threats it has without needing Neera, so there's always a solution I think for every case. Except for rare creatures like Obeka, go find another effect like that, there are a couple but not as good as her.
If your entire deck revolves around the commander, protect the commander obviously. Lightning greaves, swiftfoot boots, sylvan safekeeper, etc. How much removal can your opponents waste on removing commanders before they run out of removal spells? The most aggregious removal for commanders are cards like Song of the Dryad/Imprisoned in the Moon because you keep the commander trapped on the battlefield as a mana source for good. Those effects are impressive, and efficient. In my metagame I play both those effects and I prepare to see them used upon me, so I have artifact/enchantment removal on standby. Anyway, protect your commander IF your deck revolves around them.
I have 2 monolith commanders and one that is close, the close one the deck functions decently without, but the rest of the deck is built to work much better and actually not die on the swing back with him out, the monoliths have a lot of protection and the commander can be the last piece of the combo to hit the board Rest of my decks range from "commander is useful, but not necessary" to "makes the deck do it's thing twice as much"/"makes the deck twice as consistent", but can work without the commanders
How would your commander get exiled where you can't get it out of exile? Wouldn't you just move it to the command zone instead? Did you mean if your commander gets elked?
Not necessarily. If someone has a Mirror of Life-tapping out, when anyone casts their commander, it hits the board (any ETB's go off), returns all other things exiled with the mirror and then it gets exiled itself. If you have something else to cast, then you would have that get exiled and return your commander to the battlefield. If you choose to leave it in exile because you are out of mana and just think the next person will end up returning your commander to the battlefield when they have something go in to exile, you are taking the chance that they don't destroy the mirror on their turn, or that someone didn't cast an instant that destroyed the mirror on your turn. If they do that, your commander would remain exiled for the rest of the game. Why? Because you can only grab your commander back to the command zone as it is changing states or locations, in other words, as it's going in to exile, you can put it in the command zone INSTEAD. If the mirror is destroyed, your commander is already in exile and not actually moving states, so he remains exiled. There is no opportunity to get him back. The mirror is only one such card that could potentially do this.
so first off there are ways to trick someone into leaving their commander in exile. if i oblivion ring your commander do you put it into the command zone? also i can steal your turn with mind slaver and just leave it in exile.
If they never got rid of (or bring back) the rule about shuffling commanders into a deck, people wouldn't have this issue. That said, I think its prudent to build a deck as if the commander will never make it into play. Regardless, the build-around commanders teach players the importance of running and using removal.
RE: to remove the commander, as a Blue player I always get more hate countering a commander then someone who just immediately kills/removes the commander.
An untapping theme in Jund colors should be quite fine in Jund colors. I don't see it much in EDH, but among my oldest 60 card decks is a deck of Shockers, Fire Whips, and a sub theme of how many times can I untap this creature with an annoying damage trigger? Got some of my first poison wins in that deck over my attempts at a dedicated poison deck. Marsh Viper + Firewhip + Awakening goes a long way to killing an opponent. (Also got some of my first kills with a wall from that deck as well. Just repeatedly shooting someone with some cheap red wall that'd been enchanted.)
I only play those Commanders where they are more of a wincon and I can delay playing them until I have protection. Perhaps the exception would be Kaalia or Blanka but those are aggro decks. The payoff is worth the risk of opponents overwhelming my protection.
I build vae victis amaldi "vivaldi" deck, at the beginning the deck didnt do much after gets removed, then i rebuild the deck with "cheating creatures from the top of the library" and now I am happy with the deck
I may be over simplifying, but if you have a “monolith commander,“ as you coined the term, with a theme that doesn’t have a lot of support in other cards: couldn’t you just spend the slots of your decks you’d spend on supporting the theme with protection cards? If you wanted to have 5 cards that make creatures you control be able to attack with toughness instead of power alongside your commander. You could instead not run overlap on an effect that stacks (again given the theme isnt well supported), and just have instant speed protection and counterspells to protect your commander on cast and while on the battlefield.
Ufff it happens to me all the time, I play 2nd turn K'rrick an every one goes bananas, then they kill my commander, I do a fake cry, and then I just go for the nearest combo in my hand and I usually win.
I am so confused. As a longtime EDH player, it is very rare that I will build a deck that requires my commander in play to win. If you do build a deck that cannot function w/out your commander in play, you've failed as a deckbuilder. Or be okay with a certain amount of feelbads when your opponents repeatedly counter or doombolt you out of the game.
This thought is what I built my Elenda & Azor group hug deck around. Lock down commanders, give nothing but card draw and remove "no max hand size" effects.
Talking baylen, aura mutation and artifact mutation are slame dunks. Cheap on mana and if someone gets super ahead early you can punish them for it while making tokens.
I built a Tovolar/Bard Class deck with Bello in the 99, in that case I looked for a lot of things that met Bello's requirements but that the deck could use anyways. Xenagos the god is often good in Gruul and can be animated on timestamps. Steel Hellkite is a great utility artifact dragon on its own, but could be ridiculous when Bello hastes it. Artifacts and enchantments at 4-6ish cost that maybe are creatures already or provide good support to such. I bet a more focused Bello build could be a good Modular deck as well. (The direction I took my R/W Rex Nebular deck in, a commander with similar animation capabilities.) Drop an Arcbound Slasher, let Riot add another +1/+1 to it, and with Bello it becomes a 4/4 with 5 +1/+1 counters on it.
@Jerhevon I appreciate your suggestions! I went heavy on enchantment gods and enchantment tribal for card draw. Haven't tested it out yet but I want to make sure I can still function without Bello!
Thanks for the forecast! I need some advice: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (mistake turkey blossom warfare blade until bachelor fall squeeze today flee guitar). How can I transfer them to Binance?
If I play an expensive commander (5+ mana cost) I prefer to only use my commander as a finisher, or as a recovery engine. Marneus Calgar is a perfect example of this. I play that deck as a token / sacrifice / go wide deck in which all of the core cards synergize well with Marneus, but if things are going well, I don't even summon him. If the board just got wiped, however, and I don't have threats in hand, I can summon him and rebuild my board and hand with "only" mana. If my commander is the core of my deck, then it cannot cost more than 2, or else it must have eminence. I've got to be able to cast it 3-4 times if necessary, or else be able cast it 1-2 times but not need to cast it ever.
I mean some of these lessons apply but sometimes they don't. I find if you're playing draw go control a lot of general rules kind of go out the window.
I don't like monolyth commander decks. My Clavileno deck would suck, if he got removed the same turn he comes down, but he usually doesn't catch removal, because he doesn't realy snowball fast. If your deck relies on your commander, playing an underwhelming one helps. ^^
I play a very hypocrittical deck in "eriette the beguiler" It is a monolith deck that cant do much if she gets removed too much but turn all my auras in take control effects. So it counters hard monolith deck that dont play enougth creature/enchantment remouval or lack proper protection. Its been pretty it or miss so far
i usually choose themes that dont necessarily require having the commander on board all the time but on the other hand cannot realistically manage to squeeze a win (especially with >4 ppl in the pod), e.g. Tawnos The Toymaker beast+bird tribal where tawnos copies otherwise mostly overcosted ETBs, mutate creatures & some actually decent creatures (eg elder gargaroth). i never built a monolith but regardless, my decks can come to a halt without a commander, so i'm highly sceptical of the advice "just make it work without that extra card". how can i keep playing with an empty board n hand for example as someone who doesnt use rhystic study & the likes :D? so far i cant.
I have a commander commander deck with all the cards that say “commander you own have” or “if you control your commander” it is both terrible and over powered
ONe of the greatest problems with Ygra is transforming everything into an Artifact: yes, "Food" is a type of Artifact, but it should NOT work that way; it has almost no flavour sense and it's WAY too strong in green D: Busted
Imo decks should be built around a commander 99% of the time; i dont like good stuff decks or when ppl dont need the commander and just want the colors…..seems counterintuitive to commander to me. I get you build some “method 2” decks, but most ppl dont build like that, especially not in a janky way. Obviously no matter what the commander should be involved with what your deck does. If you never cast your commander then why play commander?
@ i play edgar vampire tribal and i do cast him; imo he is the weakest eminence commander. Oloro i never see cast and same for analla (the wizard one). Sidar is even stronger and i thought they were done with the mechanic altogether
Sometimes there just isn't a commander for the theme and colors. Other times, like Vorosh, the dragon isn't plan A, but I don't want to be fully oppressive with say Muldrotha in the command zone. Now Muldrotha and recursion can be good and fun to recover with, but I'm not threatening Muldrotha immediately either. And frankly, I'm bad at having flying defense. So now I've got a big beefy dragon to watch my skies for me. Likewise my Tovolar/Bard Class deck could be run straight up as a Bello deck, but I don't think I'd be as able to manage the table aggro if Bello was out sitting there. And of course Reaper King, mine built when tuck still existed, so I tried to thread my support cards to work together in case the King was indisposed. So more artifacts and creatures with ETBS to blink or reanimate, that kind of thing. Sen Triplets as a backup in the 99. Going to look more like a good stuff deck than I'd like. Alas.
Because it forced people to have back up plans for when their commander was permanently removed. With the power creep on modern legendary creatures going up, it would be nice to have a few permanent answers to powerhouse commanders. The tuck rule change also negatively impacted a lot of white removal. Nowadays when I put an Oubliette on somebody's commander they act like it's the end of the world. How long until they change that rule to appease the militant casuals?
I think I forgot to congratulate you on 60k so congrats bud.
I have a few decks that revolve around commander storm cards, so basically they're designed in the way that if my commander is on the field, it advances my strategy, if opponents kill it, it also advances my strategy, because I get more commander casts. Krark is also perfect commander for such a strategy, because I can harness my terrible luck, so I fail a big majority of my coinflips, and the commander storm cards return to my hand but I still get the copies of the spells.
Luckily there's a lot of back up for Arcades' effect (Walking Bulwark, Assault Formation, High Alert, etc) so it's easier to build in back-up for his effect these days.
This, i noticed my walls deck was getting on this monolithic thing, then started adding more backups for his effect, aside from the ones you mentioned
Bedrock Tortoise
Huatli, the Sun's Heart
Wakestone Gargoyle
Rasaad yn Bashir
Also, some blue defenders are pingers and others do some milling
so, there are alternatives
My Arcades deck is themed as a "city-builder", so I have a gates-sub-theme as an alternate win-con in addition to some back-up effects.
Its wall-tribal with very few non-walls (I think its just 2 or 3), and even the basic lands are the stained-glass art to keep with the theme. 😛
@@licidy1 i did try to keep non-walls to a minimum but started to see i needed some support for Arcades' draw or some other utility that has so strong synergy i couldn't just ignore
the deck has 36 creatures, out of which 15 are non-walls
most are backup draw engines with stuff being Rigo, Streetwise Mentor, Welcoming Vampire, Mentor of the Meek, etc
@@licidy1idk, arcades seems to really hate tapped lands. You want him out turn 3 if possible
my personal view has always been to choose a commander's colors you want to play, find a commander who does something you'd like to do *sometimes*, and build the other 99 cards around effects you want to happen *always*. I win games by ensuring my 99 cards can stand on their own without the commander on the field.
Ah, along with trying to not make a deck come off as a "99/98-card deck with bonus card(s)" build?
This is basically what I do too. I like my commander to be interactive in the game, but it isn't 100% the reason why I won or IS the gameplan.
Of all the topics you've discussed, I think the concept of monolith commanders is the most important. I have several decks and am systematically working to change them with your comment in mind, "what happens to your deck if your commander is removed?" I have an Urza Lord High Artificer Deck, which goes to crap if it's removed. However, I also have a Baylen deck, which chugs along fine if removed. In fact, when I last played it, my pod joked about whether I was ever going to use it. I only brought it out at the very end to close the game. I like your method 2 concept and am trying to build more around a concept, not the commander.
I'm working on a Sergeant John Benton deck right now, and it will rely more on the commander than almost any other deck. I think when that's the case, you need to have a lot of ways to protect your guy. Hexproof, Indestructible, enchantment removal, and even Homeward Path.
Definitely agree that this is an important topic.
With Urza specifically, I find you can usually do quite well by giving him flash. Tap enough artifacts to recast him while he’s being removed and flash him back in.
Yes, I've done that exact thing with Urza before. Very frustrating for my opponents when I have the mana to recast.
Well interestingly enough you've actually you've peaked my interest in this regard. For a while now i've heralded a Selvala, Heart of the Wilds Cedh deck that's fallen out of favor as green has gotten worse and worse as time has moved on, whilst the deck is too strong for casual groups i've found it can no longer hang with the big boys at the cedh tables, most commonly the partner thoracle decks, but what you mentioned about untapping effects in Jund which is coincidentally all my favorite colors, maybe i could build a cool Yurlok deck that's essentially a Selvala deck but with red and black upside? seems good to me, thanks for the inspiration!
Been a long time watcher and subscriber since the start of covid, and I've always loved the videos you put out. I find these days there's little room for showing appreciation for one another and i just wanted to voice aforementioned appreciation. as far as commander content creators go you might just be the GOAT. keep doing you my man.
Speaking of jund, I recently seen a disa the restless lhurgofy tribal. It was just hard and hefty beats but fast about it. Plus with midrange meta it helps since the things have slowed down.
Everyone would figure this out pretty quickly if the Tuck rule got reinstated. 😂
I have a friend who builds with these hyper focused generals (Yurlok, mono-B Gollum-the “poop finger” deck, Skullbriar, etc.) and instantly the pod’s plan is “kill it with fire”. Ever seen someone cast Gollum for 11? I get wanting to do the cool thing, but sometimes that risk is part of the deal.
The kind of thinking that helps with monolith commanders is good for deck building in general. Going wide with 1/1 tokens? Sure, you want anthems, lords, and/or +1/+1 counters to support that, but a Sublime Archangel’s gonna look really good when someone plays a Mirri or Crawlspace. And your extremely tall voltron commander would appreciate some ways to make a small horde of tokens when the other side has Menace or Deathtouch on everything.
Heck, I built a Ramos deck out of a Foundation Starter Collection and even that has 3-4 spells and a plan that's usually get the mana to cast and defend Ramos, and then land him and try to untap with him. And honestly if there's no good cards in my hand to use his +10 mana for I might not even cast him to begin with,
I've learned this lesson the hard way for sure.
There are two reasons I've listened to your content for quite a while now. Your intro is awesome. The second is the e tire concept. Those deck-enabling commanders are great to introduce players into commander, but going more general with an explosive plans makes the games for enjoyable. Once the deck gets too general, a video you have done before, cut the staples and rebuild towards a strategy that you enjoy.
First time comment I think for your channel. Simply saying: keep up the great work on this topic. I hope you get to join some content creators tables so you can flex your stuff.
Best decks I find just have their commander as added utility rather than the focus of the deck.
I've built several decks by now... but, only untill I saw your video on Monolith commanders back then, I realized I made mistakes on at least 4 of them (2 of them even on this video Thumbnail hehe) ...
Now, if the strategy doesn't have at least 5 backups for the strategy (Arcades has this and good draw because of the colors), I actively stay away from Monoliths
Pretty sure when the commander changes any zones, its the owner of the card that decides where it goes
Set up creatures that pose a threat to the entire board and can snowball out of control, have board wipes or board wipe-like effects.
Every color can do something on a grand scale, find those cards and include them as a plan B
The commander just provides an overkill scenario in my decks usually :)
Do you have some examples?
I have a NizMizzet Reborn deck where the deck functions great without him, but I cast him when my hand is getting low to reload. @@MaikTM68
In my balen deck a lot of the time I will use him as a counterspell check. If you have 10-15 tokens then everyone knows they're screwed if he hits the board, so you can spend 3 mana, if he doesn't get countered then great, if he does, then that means the overrun in your hand is about to resolve
One of my favorite monolith commanders is Abdel Gordon. When he is about to get destroyed, I can simply blink him in response to removal or a board wipe.
Run either a lot of "back-up" effects or lots of "greaves" effects.
Both.
My Narset, Enlightened Exile has some semi-redundant secret commanders in the form of Bria, Riptide Rogue and Balmor, Battlemage Captain in the deck. They synergize with Narset, but they also perform some of the same functions as well. I run a decent amount of protection to keep my commander alive, but I am not dead in the water if she dies.
This is the first question I ask myself when I build a new Commander Deck tbh.
It has become this way because, like you, I usually try to build some fringe decks or some particular strategies and my friends (since they usually didn't know what this or that General does) were scared of my new build and started removing my Commander multiple times.
The only problem with this, is the fact that some newer and more peculiar ones don't have any "redundancy" effect -yet- (:
I still remember casting Kaalia of the Vast for 22 mana because it got removed so many times. Ironically, this ended up winning me that game. I top decked Lord of the Void and ripped an Archfiend of Despair from the top of the Shadowborn Apostle deck. One of the best memories I have of playing commander.
I have rebuilt this Kaalia deck since to be more focused around drawing a bunch of cards and hard casting the big scary creatures in the deck. Kaalia is now just an accelerant. If she gets removed, just pay for things like normal.
Do you have a deck list? I would love to see it! c: Most Kaalia decks I have seen online are cEDH or just the mana curve it built too poorly to operate around her.
It mostly depends on the CMC of your Commander. You may not see it for several turns. And opponents are notorious for Commander targeted removal. If that CMC gets hit with tax a couple of times, you may never see it on the field again this game.
So yeah, you need to brew multiple win-cons per deck. Your Edgar deck should have at least four ways to win. Edgar only represents two of those ways...wide and tall. Yet we all know the trick to an Edgar deck is life gain. That's not from Edgar. He just helps build your defenses while you play your life game in safety. Your opponents are busy getting milled, copied, and goaded, while you're on your way to 130 life. Then, when the time is right, you start swinging. And their trample means nothing as you've hit 2oo life and climbing. If you know how to build an Edgar deck, that is.
Amusingly I can't actually figure out what card you're referencing here as your commander. :D
My solution to monolith commanders is loading up with protection. I play a great deal of white and green which have loads. My other solution is, if you kill my commander, im just gonna commit every single resource i have to make sure you dont win the game now.
I think as a new player evolves, they learn monolith commanders were there to teach them how to make your deck do the thing, but as you get better, you grow, you learn, you realize your 99 is even more important than your commander choice, especially in casual. I have too many decks because most of them are monolith decks, and they suffer exactly as you think they would if you just keep the commander off the field. This video has given some of the best advice I've ever heard. Pick a commander that plays well with your deck; don't pick a commander that needs to be on the field for your deck to function. You'll find good threat assessment calls will shut you down permanently.
I agree: your deck should be able to operate without your commander. I build around my commander but I l always have backups or plans to put in place before my commander is played.
My mono white commander is Arahbo, the first fang. No matter what, with our without him, I make cats.
There are also ways to return your commander to your hand etc, and graveyard recursion
Most of my decks are monolith decks however it seems to work out cause either people don’t kill my commander because it’s not as scary as others or I run a lot of protection spells
Yurlock would be best in a group slug deck where he represents as a mana dork (guaranteed 6 mana the turn after he comes down if not removed) that burns your opponents, effectively a ramped up Zur-Taa Druid. Then you run effects that force your opponents to tap out their lands and other slug effects.
I have a few monolith commanders. Zur, Anzrag, Shelob. Lots of protection
Its still okay to build monolith commanders. Just always keep in mind to put in protection spells and ways to avoid the commander tax with cards like Command Beacon
There are so many commanders I would love to build BUT their mechanics are either unique or poorly replicated by other cards so if they get pushed off the table the deck basically sits there doing nothing. Vihaan, Goldwaker is a great example of this. When I go into combat, all my treasures become 3/3 assassins with haste and vigilance. Very fun concept, if any get blocked I can just sacrifice them, and at the end of my turn they're still creatures so I can also sac them for mana and to get death triggers with things like Grave Pact or Blood Artist. It's a pretty janky deck build, since if I'm making enough treasures to be flinging them en masse at the rest of the table I could be using them to just pay for better creatures, but it's a very fun spin on aristocrats.
The problem is, Vihaan is the ONLY card currently in game with such an ability in Mardu colors, so if he gets locked out, the deck just becomes a generic treasure generating deck. I can include an alternate win con like Revel in Riches, or even just a big beater or X spell to dump the treasures into, but IMO that defeats the spirit of the deck, but also there is just so little support for that strategy that relying on Vihaan to get out and stick is just foolish.
I really wish they'd focus on including more support for the cards they release in sets. Why make a card like Vihaan if there's no janky redundancy I can slot in to help support a Treasures become Creatures theme? It's not like they have no room among the 200+ cards they release for each set.
thanks for this one Demo im planning on building Ygra so great advice!
I build my decks so that if my commander is out, it gives my other cards a competitive edge. If it's not out, they stand on their own.
Someone pointed it out to me years ago to remember while building that it's a 100 card deck. It's not a 99 card deck with a guaranteed 100th. Build it as if the commander were randomly shuffled into the deck and you'll be good. (I don't always follow this) 😂
As I started watching this my wife was like "Demooooooooo"
Almost all my decks can go the whole game without the commander ever needing to be played. Feels great to have it as a support piece and not the linchpin
I like the Method 2 terminology, did you come up with it? Anyways lately I've been enjoying Method 2 commanders a lot more, when the commander is just one more of the cards and more of a support card where there's more similar cards in the deck that do the same than it, or where the commander goes in a completely different direction than the deck goes, it's fun. When I want to build a commander-centric deck it's complicated to carry, I think there are two kinds of that commander: ETB one shot commander where you want to cast it to do its thing and it's done (Etali, Maelstrom Wanderer) or the Obeka/Yurlok kind of decks you mention. The latter needs a lot of protection for them in my experience.
Arcades can in my opinion do a bunch of things without needing to stay around, I once played an Arcades storm and it was crazy, didn't need to play him until I was setup for a big storm turn. But you can always go the wall commander way and try to protect him.
Baylen I agree 100% with you, it is a piece of support but it's not vital for a token deck, you can do its thing until someone gets rid of it and bring it again.
A funny exercise I do sometimes to see if my deck can win without my commander is switching it to a random different commander with the same colors. Neera is a deck that really doesn't work well for me without it and it's a shame, that's why I try to cast her when I have some sort of protection or a setup that allows me to bring a big threat immediately. A tweak I've tried is adding a crazy bunch of ramp to it to be able to cast the monstrous threats it has without needing Neera, so there's always a solution I think for every case. Except for rare creatures like Obeka, go find another effect like that, there are a couple but not as good as her.
My backup strategy with Yurlok was just massive X spells😂 people love the double or triple mana til I Fireball them for 40
I just got into a local Duskmourn Precon-Tournament and this is exactly why I decided not to use Aminatou's Deck. It completely crumbles without her.
If your entire deck revolves around the commander, protect the commander obviously. Lightning greaves, swiftfoot boots, sylvan safekeeper, etc. How much removal can your opponents waste on removing commanders before they run out of removal spells? The most aggregious removal for commanders are cards like Song of the Dryad/Imprisoned in the Moon because you keep the commander trapped on the battlefield as a mana source for good. Those effects are impressive, and efficient. In my metagame I play both those effects and I prepare to see them used upon me, so I have artifact/enchantment removal on standby. Anyway, protect your commander IF your deck revolves around them.
I have 2 monolith commanders and one that is close, the close one the deck functions decently without, but the rest of the deck is built to work much better and actually not die on the swing back with him out, the monoliths have a lot of protection and the commander can be the last piece of the combo to hit the board
Rest of my decks range from "commander is useful, but not necessary" to "makes the deck do it's thing twice as much"/"makes the deck twice as consistent", but can work without the commanders
I started to play decks that not only are reliable without their commander, but also benefits from losing it, like Kura for example.
How would your commander get exiled where you can't get it out of exile? Wouldn't you just move it to the command zone instead? Did you mean if your commander gets elked?
Not necessarily. If someone has a Mirror of Life-tapping out, when anyone casts their commander, it hits the board (any ETB's go off), returns all other things exiled with the mirror and then it gets exiled itself. If you have something else to cast, then you would have that get exiled and return your commander to the battlefield. If you choose to leave it in exile because you are out of mana and just think the next person will end up returning your commander to the battlefield when they have something go in to exile, you are taking the chance that they don't destroy the mirror on their turn, or that someone didn't cast an instant that destroyed the mirror on your turn. If they do that, your commander would remain exiled for the rest of the game. Why? Because you can only grab your commander back to the command zone as it is changing states or locations, in other words, as it's going in to exile, you can put it in the command zone INSTEAD. If the mirror is destroyed, your commander is already in exile and not actually moving states, so he remains exiled. There is no opportunity to get him back. The mirror is only one such card that could potentially do this.
so first off there are ways to trick someone into leaving their commander in exile. if i oblivion ring your commander do you put it into the command zone? also i can steal your turn with mind slaver and just leave it in exile.
@@tattooman3603 Ah ok, yeah if you choose to leave your commander in exile. I'm too paranoid to do that :)
@@edhdeckbuilding Yeah I would put my commander back in the command zone. But someone taking your turn, true, you wouldn't get to choose.
@@edhdeckbuilding I watched the video again and you mentioned Mindslaver. I guess I got distracted and missed it. Thanks.
If they never got rid of (or bring back) the rule about shuffling commanders into a deck, people wouldn't have this issue.
That said, I think its prudent to build a deck as if the commander will never make it into play.
Regardless, the build-around commanders teach players the importance of running and using removal.
RE: to remove the commander, as a Blue player I always get more hate countering a commander then someone who just immediately kills/removes the commander.
An untapping theme in Jund colors should be quite fine in Jund colors. I don't see it much in EDH, but among my oldest 60 card decks is a deck of Shockers, Fire Whips, and a sub theme of how many times can I untap this creature with an annoying damage trigger? Got some of my first poison wins in that deck over my attempts at a dedicated poison deck. Marsh Viper + Firewhip + Awakening goes a long way to killing an opponent. (Also got some of my first kills with a wall from that deck as well. Just repeatedly shooting someone with some cheap red wall that'd been enchanted.)
I only play those Commanders where they are more of a wincon and I can delay playing them until I have protection.
Perhaps the exception would be Kaalia or Blanka but those are aggro decks. The payoff is worth the risk of opponents overwhelming my protection.
I build vae victis amaldi "vivaldi" deck, at the beginning the deck didnt do much after gets removed, then i rebuild the deck with "cheating creatures from the top of the library" and now I am happy with the deck
I may be over simplifying, but if you have a “monolith commander,“ as you coined the term, with a theme that doesn’t have a lot of support in other cards: couldn’t you just spend the slots of your decks you’d spend on supporting the theme with protection cards? If you wanted to have 5 cards that make creatures you control be able to attack with toughness instead of power alongside your commander. You could instead not run overlap on an effect that stacks (again given the theme isnt well supported), and just have instant speed protection and counterspells to protect your commander on cast and while on the battlefield.
Ufff it happens to me all the time, I play 2nd turn K'rrick an every one goes bananas, then they kill my commander, I do a fake cry, and then I just go for the nearest combo in my hand and I usually win.
I am so confused. As a longtime EDH player, it is very rare that I will build a deck that requires my commander in play to win. If you do build a deck that cannot function w/out your commander in play, you've failed as a deckbuilder. Or be okay with a certain amount of feelbads when your opponents repeatedly counter or doombolt you out of the game.
This thought is what I built my Elenda & Azor group hug deck around. Lock down commanders, give nothing but card draw and remove "no max hand size" effects.
What if i care only about one dingle etb trigger and not scared to put it in geaveyard? My iname death aspect is the most monolith build i have
Talking baylen, aura mutation and artifact mutation are slame dunks. Cheap on mana and if someone gets super ahead early you can punish them for it while making tokens.
How would you recommend building Bello, bard of the brambles in a non monolith way?
I built a Tovolar/Bard Class deck with Bello in the 99, in that case I looked for a lot of things that met Bello's requirements but that the deck could use anyways. Xenagos the god is often good in Gruul and can be animated on timestamps. Steel Hellkite is a great utility artifact dragon on its own, but could be ridiculous when Bello hastes it. Artifacts and enchantments at 4-6ish cost that maybe are creatures already or provide good support to such. I bet a more focused Bello build could be a good Modular deck as well. (The direction I took my R/W Rex Nebular deck in, a commander with similar animation capabilities.) Drop an Arcbound Slasher, let Riot add another +1/+1 to it, and with Bello it becomes a 4/4 with 5 +1/+1 counters on it.
@Jerhevon I appreciate your suggestions! I went heavy on enchantment gods and enchantment tribal for card draw. Haven't tested it out yet but I want to make sure I can still function without Bello!
Thanks for the forecast! I need some advice: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (mistake turkey blossom warfare blade until bachelor fall squeeze today flee guitar). How can I transfer them to Binance?
Great video
It's funny that you bring up ygra like that because I only summon ygra when I need my creatures to be tokens for a one hit combo
I think I'm going to do a Deck Tech for my Pain Turbo Fog Yurlock Deck
If I play an expensive commander (5+ mana cost) I prefer to only use my commander as a finisher, or as a recovery engine.
Marneus Calgar is a perfect example of this. I play that deck as a token / sacrifice / go wide deck in which all of the core cards synergize well with Marneus, but if things are going well, I don't even summon him.
If the board just got wiped, however, and I don't have threats in hand, I can summon him and rebuild my board and hand with "only" mana.
If my commander is the core of my deck, then it cannot cost more than 2, or else it must have eminence. I've got to be able to cast it 3-4 times if necessary, or else be able cast it 1-2 times but not need to cast it ever.
This is my main hesitation in building Sydri Galvanic Genius. Has anyone built her in a not too monolithic way?
That's kinda of the the nice thing about my Caesar deck Caesar doesn't have to be there for me to make Dudes and then kill my own dudes for profit
Voltron decks
🧍♂️
I mean some of these lessons apply but sometimes they don't. I find if you're playing draw go control a lot of general rules kind of go out the window.
My favorite is my Meren deck. I usually win with one of a few combos but meren doesn't enable them. I can win with or without her for sure
I'd go Aristocrats with Ygra, 100%.
Yeah I hear what you're saying, but hear me out: Voltron is maaaaad fun
I don't like monolyth commander decks. My Clavileno deck would suck, if he got removed the same turn he comes down, but he usually doesn't catch removal, because he doesn't realy snowball fast. If your deck relies on your commander, playing an underwhelming one helps. ^^
I play a very hypocrittical deck in "eriette the beguiler"
It is a monolith deck that cant do much if she gets removed too much but turn all my auras in take control effects. So it counters hard monolith deck that dont play enougth creature/enchantment remouval or lack proper protection. Its been pretty it or miss so far
i usually choose themes that dont necessarily require having the commander on board all the time but on the other hand cannot realistically manage to squeeze a win (especially with >4 ppl in the pod), e.g. Tawnos The Toymaker beast+bird tribal where tawnos copies otherwise mostly overcosted ETBs, mutate creatures & some actually decent creatures (eg elder gargaroth). i never built a monolith but regardless, my decks can come to a halt without a commander, so i'm highly sceptical of the advice "just make it work without that extra card". how can i keep playing with an empty board n hand for example as someone who doesnt use rhystic study & the likes :D? so far i cant.
I have a commander commander deck with all the cards that say “commander you own have” or “if you control your commander” it is both terrible and over powered
Excellenté
ONe of the greatest problems with Ygra is transforming everything into an Artifact: yes, "Food" is a type of Artifact, but it should NOT work that way; it has almost no flavour sense and it's WAY too strong in green D: Busted
Cool, so gimme 5 examples of a esper commander that is not monolith
All of them: Queza, Urza, Sydri, Tawnos and Tivit. It’s about the way you build them.
Imo decks should be built around a commander 99% of the time; i dont like good stuff decks or when ppl dont need the commander and just want the colors…..seems counterintuitive to commander to me.
I get you build some “method 2” decks, but most ppl dont build like that, especially not in a janky way.
Obviously no matter what the commander should be involved with what your deck does.
If you never cast your commander then why play commander?
Eminence
@ i play edgar vampire tribal and i do cast him; imo he is the weakest eminence commander. Oloro i never see cast and same for analla (the wizard one). Sidar is even stronger and i thought they were done with the mechanic altogether
ALOT of people build like this, and especially janky. More common than you think, and there is no wrong way to play commander.
Sometimes there just isn't a commander for the theme and colors. Other times, like Vorosh, the dragon isn't plan A, but I don't want to be fully oppressive with say Muldrotha in the command zone. Now Muldrotha and recursion can be good and fun to recover with, but I'm not threatening Muldrotha immediately either. And frankly, I'm bad at having flying defense. So now I've got a big beefy dragon to watch my skies for me.
Likewise my Tovolar/Bard Class deck could be run straight up as a Bello deck, but I don't think I'd be as able to manage the table aggro if Bello was out sitting there.
And of course Reaper King, mine built when tuck still existed, so I tried to thread my support cards to work together in case the King was indisposed. So more artifacts and creatures with ETBS to blink or reanimate, that kind of thing. Sen Triplets as a backup in the 99. Going to look more like a good stuff deck than I'd like. Alas.
The format was better when you could tuck a players commander.
Nah.
How does that make it better?
Because it forced people to have back up plans for when their commander was permanently removed. With the power creep on modern legendary creatures going up, it would be nice to have a few permanent answers to powerhouse commanders. The tuck rule change also negatively impacted a lot of white removal.
Nowadays when I put an Oubliette on somebody's commander they act like it's the end of the world. How long until they change that rule to appease the militant casuals?
"Winning a game just in the 99 without casting your commander, Lord Flexalot?"😂