What's wrong with Head-Hopping and Switching Perspectives in Novel Writing?

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ธ.ค. 2024

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  • @s.fla.beekeepingmangoesand1517
    @s.fla.beekeepingmangoesand1517 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    My first novel is in, what I hope is a final edit. Originally, it was written in multiple POV's. Readers were often confused. I changed it to one POV with the exception of a single chapter that introduced the love interest as she sat in her apartment before leaving with her roommate to strip. I loved this vid. I'm deep into my second novel using one POV, but this has inspired me to write my third in multiple POV's. Thanks for posting.

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      My pleasure! Do you want to drop the names of your novel so people can check them out?

    • @s.fla.beekeepingmangoesand1517
      @s.fla.beekeepingmangoesand1517 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@theidiotonthewritersblock Thank you for the offer. I prefer to wait for the final edit. FYI I've enjoyed a few of your vids.

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I’m glad to hear that. Got a really special one coming this Friday that I’m super excited about!

  • @yeankim690
    @yeankim690 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    this is so helpful, thank you!

  • @BlueLotusLover
    @BlueLotusLover 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Yes, I love it too! Yesterday I was disappointed when I found out about this head-hopping business and that it's frowned upon.
    This morning I woke up and searched for when it can and is used, and came across your video. I love that you interviewed experts giving their take on it.
    I'm going to keep doing it, but will make sure there is always clarity. If clarity is the key and main concern, then with this goal in mind, I think I will be fine. It serves my story and genre.
    Rebels unite! lol

  • @Lasherluke
    @Lasherluke 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I think what it all boils down to is that are you enjoying your writing because regardless of anything, there will be someone out there who enjoys your work no matter what.

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Mail on the head. If you write for you and your audience, who cares what techniques you use? If you like it and the readers for whom you write like it, then mission accomplished. I always refer back to Hitchhikers (though many more do the same) when it comes to random hops and I’m there for it all day

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Check out my new channel @The Idiot On The Comedy Circuit and let me know what you think

  • @jhouserwrites
    @jhouserwrites 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I appreciate this. I get tired of absolutes in advice about things like this. The biggest questions should be--is it intentionally done? Why is this the best method to get across what you want?
    I'm under fire by my editor for shifts in POV in my manuscript. I actually had edited much more of it in BECAUSE of beta reader feedback. They struggled to understand one of the 2 MCs, they lost her motivations and struggles as the other MC would take over in a scene. We're meant to see them butting heads and not actually hate either one, but understand how their individual life experiences and personalities have brought them to see things from different lenses.
    Without 'head hopping' in some scenes, betas said characters became distant and they hated a character they should understand. "She's dead to me." I think that's a direct quote, lol.
    Yes, when possible, I change POV at the start of a chapter or scene. But in heated scenes when I feel it's best to know what they're both thinking, I'm going to do it, not just emotionally constipate one of them until a brand new scene purely set up for them to skulk away and release the behind-the-scenes things we had hidden from us. If I had full access to their thoughts in chapters when they were apart, why shouldn't I when they're together?

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      You raise some excellent points there. And though I may be partial - as clearly I LOVE to head-hop - switching perspectives indeed gives you a better insight into why each character is approaching a fight in a way.
      I wouldn’t disregard your editor’s comments though. Perhaps a compromise between the two.

  • @plesiophrictus2756
    @plesiophrictus2756 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Headhoping can be great when done well. But sucks when done bad. Eg discworld does it gr8.
    When done poorly it's confusing as hell. (My perspective as a reader)

    • @plesiophrictus2756
      @plesiophrictus2756 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Another great example of it done we'll is the battle scenes in first law.

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Hi there! Apologies for the delay in responding. Discworld is a great shout!
      Do you have any examples of when it was done badly?

  • @mrmivisuals
    @mrmivisuals 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Really interesting to hear all these perspectives. My initial opinion was that it should be the reader’s preference but it definitely needs a balance and there is an art to it. Looking forward to watching more videos like this!

    • @mrmivisuals
      @mrmivisuals 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Looking forward to reading your book and hearing the pheasant’s perspective on this!

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      It definitely is what a lot of the experts were saying. It seems head-hopping easily confuses the reader.

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you! It’s all on track for Sept this year. And you’ll love the pheasants. They are deservingly arrogant 😁

  • @cutwir3317
    @cutwir3317 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love to know what everyone in the story is thinking because it helps me understand them and people in life better. I’m a beginner writer and find this fascinating even though alot of writers tell me it’s bad.

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      What I have found from speaking with other writers and editors is that you can still explore what others in your scene are thinking, you just need to punctuate the perspective flip for the reader otherwise it may become difficult to digest as you read.
      And I get it; if you are reading a scene that you feel is from Person A’s POV, they won’t know that Person B is thinking about how they missed breakfast and could really do with a Snickers. So for that thought to automatically pop up can be a bit jarring. If, however, you sign-post that you are now reading from Person AB’s pov, then it flows easily.
      But what do I know?! Thanks for watching the video. Will be back making more soon.

  • @fioreariadne
    @fioreariadne 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I tend to headhop in my writing a lot as well, I was beginning to feel bad about it but you gave me a boost of confidence. As mentioned, as long as you do it deliberately and with a clear purpose, it could be a useful tool.

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Always happy to hear the work has helped someone. Head-hop to your heart’s content, and hope to read your work soon!

  • @alexanderdietrich9943
    @alexanderdietrich9943 ปีที่แล้ว

    You make a lot of good points, man. Best of luck to you!
    I think head-hopping can be, if done cleanly and clearly, a rather cinematic way of writing.

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thank you kindly for your comment. And I agree 100%! If the perspective switch is clear and contained, I believe the reader is rewarded

    • @alexanderdietrich9943
      @alexanderdietrich9943 ปีที่แล้ว

      You’re welcome! An abundance of caution would be advised, I think.
      An alternative, if you’re having trouble with keeping it clear and contained, would be to try omniscient. It’s different because the narrator knows (mostly) everything, is a singular voice, and is the one to pull from various characters, as apposed to hopping from one consciousness and voice to another.
      Happy writing, and good luck!

  • @Lasherluke
    @Lasherluke 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    My first trilogy of books have a lot of head hopping as well. It's fun how they claim there are no hard and fast rules to writing and yet they are constantly giving out this as if it is a rule. I believe if you establish who is in the scene at one time it shouldn't matter.

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      It IS fun, right?! I think the fear/worry people have when they hear “head-hopping” is when it’s used terribly; where you would need 2-3 readings of a paragraph to understand who is speaking to whom at what point.
      But like you said, if you can clearly establish who is in the scene and from whose perspective we are viewing the action, you’re golden to ply with form.
      What is the name of your trilogy? Put a plug in here!

    • @Lasherluke
      @Lasherluke 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@theidiotonthewritersblock The quinton trilogy :)

  • @TheWritingCommunityChatShow
    @TheWritingCommunityChatShow 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Another great show Marcus!

  • @maculka999
    @maculka999 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Celeste Ng headhops and I love it. I think it adds to the story. I think it depends on what you want to portray with it.

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I agree whole-heartedly. As with everything, there are people who will do it amazingly and some that will do it terribly. As an idiot, I would recommend landing in either one of those two camps. Either you’ll get lauded for being amazing or free publicity when people say you are terrible!
      Thanks for watching the video. Watch more, subscribe and share! I’m working up a few more videos

  • @corkandi
    @corkandi 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I've been noted as head-hopping by my editor, but I've written my novel based on my experiences on the way people speak and experience/think about things differently. I've used scene breaks but I'm not sure how to cure head-hopping/multi-povs, or if I want to. Help!

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Hi @Corkandi you’ve come to the right place, because I’m afflicted by the head-hopping curse just like you.
      From all the advice I have received, I would say as long as you do not confuse the reader (we are always aware of whose pov we are in at all times), hop as much as you want. The problem comes when the reader is halfway through a paragraph or scene and has to stop to reorient themselves. That’s when head-hopping becomes tedious at best and off-putting at worst. Which is why a lot of writers opt for chapter breaks before hopping.
      What do you think of that approach?

    • @corkandi
      @corkandi 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@theidiotonthewritersblock Hi, I agree with using chapter breaks and I've also used that approach. But when a few characters are involved in a scene, they discuss what's happening or happened from their pov. If I use one main characters name during dialogue/thoughts/visions etc & use he, she, they, them, for the others... would that approach cure some of the multi-pov/head-hopping issues. My editor wants to do a re-write herself, to cure her head-hopping headaches! But I don't want to lose my voice/writing style.

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I can tell you right now, your plan will cause problems. Imagine having to repeat the character’s name multiple times in the same sentence just because he or she is interacting with 4 other people.
      Your editor rewriting the lines may not be a bad idea if that’s all that is being done, though that could seriously get murky when it comes to ownership of the story.
      From this Idiot’s pov, have a look at how your favourite authors do it. Pick a book or two that you enjoy deeply and see how interactions are written. Where is the reader placed in the scene. If you don’t want to use chapters as separators, use well-spaced paragraphs to identify when you’ve hopped to a new head, but make sure for that paragraph, the reader can see, feel, hear, taste and touch only what the head of that paragraph does, and no one else, until the next paragraph where you jump to someone else.
      Hope this helps

    • @corkandi
      @corkandi 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@theidiotonthewritersblock Thanks for the advice!

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      And thank you for watching the video. Hope you watch the others and gain insight into your writing.

  • @chuckwieser7622
    @chuckwieser7622 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm going to the same struggles man, and I've literally said but Douglas Adams did it.
    I've also watched plenty of Author-Tube. Including Meg and probably everyone else you can find on here.

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I hear you, Chuck! Meg is the best. You checked out Michael La Ronn’s channel yet?

    • @chuckwieser7622
      @chuckwieser7622 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@theidiotonthewritersblock I'm not sure... I'll look it up right now

    • @chuckwieser7622
      @chuckwieser7622 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@theidiotonthewritersblock oh yeah, I forgot his last name. But yeah, and a lot of Reedsy/ ShaelinWrites, Alyssa Matesic, Alexa Donne, Abbie Emmons, and Jenna Moreci

    • @chuckwieser7622
      @chuckwieser7622 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@theidiotonthewritersblock Also Daniel James has some real cool videos on the writing style of James Joyce, Hemingway, Hunter S. Thompson and others... Plus the dude must love the classics because he's got like a giant tattoo of Hemingway on his chest. Crazy!!!

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I’ll look up Daniel James. Always looking for recommendations. Ooh! And Sacha Black. She’s got an awesome podcast too.

  • @BriuanaGreen
    @BriuanaGreen 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love writing and reading in different perspectives lol

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Right on! I do get that people do it badly, but why there is a blanket “Head-hopping is bad” approach puzzles me.
      Keep hopping!

  • @Lasherluke
    @Lasherluke 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think one of the worst I've seen is that you have to follow these rules in order for your audience to enjoy your story or some varient of that. Last time I check I thought there was no rules to storytelling and yet people constantly give out articles that are like "Rules to do this", also not all audience members are out there looking to find if there are mistakes in the story, otherwise they would never read/watch something, some are there just to read and get lost. I understand if people can't get invested if something has say the wrong tense or head hopping, but not everyone is going to care about that and if you can get that one person to enjoy your work, I'd say, mission acomplished. If we were all out there looking for mistakes books like 50 shades and the gone series wouldn't have been popular.

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Of course there are no “one-size-fits-all” rule sets out there. I feel those with “rules” are trying to push what the basics are, and once you know the basics, you can bend and break those rules well enough to be innovative.
      And then some books that just hit an audience at the right time in the right way that it’s tempting to throw out the rule books. But those are the exceptions that prove the rule, otherwise there would be more 50 Shades equally as successful. The mainstream successes follow a formula.
      But that in itself brings up the point of “mainstream success”, cos you’re looking at the gatekeepers who approve what is a mainstream success and so they have a vested interest in establishing what rules your book should follow to meet their demands.

  • @Lasherluke
    @Lasherluke 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The problem I find is that people take all the advice and think their book is going to be perfect. There is no such thing as a perfect book/story and if we constantly frete over how our books look and how polished they are they will never get published, I'd say, just do your best, get your book the way you feel it should be and then let the audience decide how good it is after that. I've read some books that aren't exactly strctured the way most would consider perfect and there were tones of grammer, tense and paragraph mistakes, but I still enjoyed it because the story sucked me in.

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      That’s absolutely right! You can rewrite a story for a whole decade and after it has been published, you’ll find a line or two you wish you had re-written. Michael La Ronn has the best advice about that. Just put out the work and move on. Fix your mistakes in the next book you write.

  • @chelle_nz
    @chelle_nz ปีที่แล้ว

    Jane Austen and J.R.R. Tolken head hop. The rule that those actually openly discuss about it rather than say no, is it has to be consistent.

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Hi There! Apologies for the delay in responding. Consistency is definitely a theme that popped up around this topic.
      If all were equal between two books (e.g great story, solid structure, realistic character development etc), would you choose a story with a solo perspective or one that hopped?

    • @chelle_nz
      @chelle_nz 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The thing to remember first, dual POV even within the same chapter isn’t head hopping. Head hoping by definition is being in one characters POV and reading what other characters are thinking or doing out of sight of the person who’s POV were in.
      That being said I think POV and how many is both genre specific and personal preference. As a predominantly romance reader/writer. I prefer more than one POV. I enjoy fantasy/sci-fi that does the same. But when reading a thriller or crime/action I like to focus on the main character.

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@chelle_nz I definitely on the point that genre and personal preference plays a large part in determining POV. The best detective stories are done from one perspective so as to not ruin the surprise, though once in a long while, I do love a good mystery where you are made to look at the same scene from different angles, especially with a humorous bent to it.
      How is your writing coming along?

    • @chelle_nz
      @chelle_nz 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@theidiotonthewritersblock I too enjoy a well written mystery thriller that has another POV, though I seldom come across them. So, if you have any recs.
      Thanks for asking. I've got 4 published. 5 is finished, ready to be published, 6 is not far behind. But I'm currently focusing on a series, that while standalones, what makes them a series should really have them all released concurrently. So, I'm neck deep in writing 12 books at once.
      On top of life, career, and formatting books for others.
      How about you?

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@chelle_nz Holy Smokes! 12 Books?!? That’s heck of a feat. When you are able to take a break, check out "The 7½ Deaths of Evelyn Hardcastle" by Stuart Turton. Checked it out a while ago and I did enjoy it very much.
      I took a pause to work on a couple of other projects (stand-up comedy, film production), and while I’m still running those other projects, I’m coming back to The Writer’s Block to explore a few new trends that weren’t around when I last did a video for the channel. Should have a few videos out by mid March

  • @Lasherluke
    @Lasherluke 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Whenever I hear people talk about what head hopping is it's usally confuses me because they count someone's actions as head hopping and I'm like, so wait, if I have one character talking and then I write a sentence which has another character walking into the scene with a cup of tea, does that count as head hopping.

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I think in those situations, they mean you can write the actions of others but not with the intention behind the action. The POV character may not know why the Thug picked up sword instead of the gun. So a line like, “He watched her chose the blade because it reminded her of the hours her mother spent training her how to use one, while the gun oil reeked of her drunken dad.”
      No bueno…

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I think in those situations, they mean you can write the actions of others but not with the intention behind the action. The POV character may not know why the Thug picked up sword instead of the gun. So a line like, “He watched her choose the blade because it reminded her of the hours her mother spent training her how to use one, while the gun oil reeked of her drunken dad.” is a no-go…

    • @Lasherluke
      @Lasherluke 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@theidiotonthewritersblock Yeah I get you but still the fact that they say action really could confuse some inspiring authors and make them what's the point of having other characters in the scene if I can't write about other characters in said scene, if you get my meaning.

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      What do your readers say about it?

    • @Lasherluke
      @Lasherluke 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@theidiotonthewritersblock not really heard complaints

  • @stgr6669
    @stgr6669 ปีที่แล้ว

    I don't understand what your problem ist. Head-hop and switch perspectives as much as you like, and if this mean "not at all", it's OK too. If you like what you wrote, great. If others do too, even greater.
    Currently, I'm working on a story that switches perspective from chapter to chapter. At the end, there will be more than 15 perspectives and I'm not forcing a specific person as the main character onto the readers. (I certainly have my own main character though.)

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Hi there! Apologies for the delay in responding. The problem arose while interviewing a number of writers who repeated a similar piece of advice, which was to not head-hop. Taken out of context or without any elaboration, one whom is still developing their skills could make that a hard rule to follow and resist the urge to tell a story from multiple perspectives. Your technique of using chapters as the boundaries for head-hopping is a fantastic choice as it provides clarity for the reader as to whose perspective is being followed in that chapter, thus, expectations are aligned.
      How is your story coming along?

    • @stgr6669
      @stgr6669 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@theidiotonthewritersblock Thanks.
      I have finished the first draft. It's 58000 words, in 52 chapters that range from 220 to 3200 words. (POV switches from chapter to chapter and often between members of the protagonist and the anagonist team.)
      I plan to reduce the number of POV characters though. There are some whose real thoughts have to stay concealed for most of the story and others whose thoughts can be shown in dialogue.
      Unless I change my mind again, there may be only two members of each team remain POV characters, plus one person who is only in the prologue and gets murdered there.

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@stgr6669 So, a romance novel then? 😁

    • @stgr6669
      @stgr6669 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@theidiotonthewritersblock Not really.
      It's a thriller, with murder and kidnapping.
      (If it was a movie, they'd probably put in some romance too.)

    • @theidiotonthewritersblock
      @theidiotonthewritersblock  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@stgr6669 Yeah I… I figured it wasn’t… never mind. Good luck with the writing!