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@@yeankim690 I am glad it was helpful to you 😁

Hi @Corkandi you’ve come to the right place, because I’m afflicted by the head-hopping curse just like you. From all the advice I have received, I would say as long as you do not confuse the reader (we are always aware of whose pov we are in at all times), hop as much as you want. The problem comes when the reader is halfway through a paragraph or scene and has to stop to reorient themselves. That’s when head-hopping becomes tedious at best and off-putting at worst. Which is why a lot of writers opt for chapter breaks before hopping. What do you think of that approach?

@@theidiotonthewritersblock Hi, I agree with using chapter breaks and I've also used that approach. But when a few characters are involved in a scene, they discuss what's happening or happened from their pov. If I use one main characters name during dialogue/thoughts/visions etc & use he, she, they, them, for the others... would that approach cure some of the multi-pov/head-hopping issues. My editor wants to do a re-write herself, to cure her head-hopping headaches! But I don't want to lose my voice/writing style.

I can tell you right now, your plan will cause problems. Imagine having to repeat the character’s name multiple times in the same sentence just because he or she is interacting with 4 other people. Your editor rewriting the lines may not be a bad idea if that’s all that is being done, though that could seriously get murky when it comes to ownership of the story. From this Idiot’s pov, have a look at how your favourite authors do it. Pick a book or two that you enjoy deeply and see how interactions are written. Where is the reader placed in the scene. If you don’t want to use chapters as separators, use well-spaced paragraphs to identify when you’ve hopped to a new head, but make sure for that paragraph, the reader can see, feel, hear, taste and touch only what the head of that paragraph does, and no one else, until the next paragraph where you jump to someone else. Hope this helps

@@theidiotonthewritersblock Thanks for the advice!

And thank you for watching the video. Hope you watch the others and gain insight into your writing.

Ah-bee-hee

Very!

Ok

Thank you! Been working on a couple of things, but the stories keep calling to me. I’ve got a few new topics I want to tackle but need the time and space to research. But soon… very soon…

Hi there! Sorry for the delay in responding. You make a few great points there. In this case, we combined complex and purple to keep the comparison clean. It’s more to do with the extremes on either side of the spectrum: simple story structure or flurried fanciful fiction. If we split the latter category into Complex vs Purple, which of the two do you prefer?

​@@theidiotonthewritersblock I'd echo the sentiment. To me, purple prose isn't prose that's complex. On the contrary, simple prose can be purple as well, and these days I often find more simple prose being purple than anything. Instead, purple prose is prose that's vague and abstract and/or draws attention to itself: it often lacks concreteness and specificity, like the ambiguous nature of a lot of poetry with all of its symbolisms and metaphors. "His love for her was the spiderweb of hope." That's exceedingly simple (elementary school writing level) but extremely purple, abstract, and lacking in specificity. The Fifth Season's prose is very purple to me despite also being exceedingly simple. Excerpt: >> So he reaches deep [...] Then he reaches wide [...] Lastly, he reaches up. For power. He takes all that, the strata and the magma and the people and the power, in his imaginary hands. Everything. He holds it. He is not alone. The earth is with him. Then he breaks it. The prose in the book is very simple (7th grade reading level) but also vague and lacking in specificity. It also draws a lot of attention to itself, like using "then" and "lastly" jarringly in present tense along with exceedingly many attention-grabbing sentence fragments, comma splices, and other odd formatting and structural pattern disruptions. If we compare to Proust: >> She sent out for one of those short, plump little cakes called 'petites madeleines,' which look as though they had been moulded in the fluted scallop of a pilgrim's shell. And soon, mechanically, weary after a dull day with the prospect of a depressing morrow, I raised to my lips a spoonful of the tea in which I had soaked a morsel of the cake. No sooner had the warm liquid, and the crumbs with it, touched my palate, a shudder ran through my whole body, and I stopped, intent upon the extraordinary changes that were taking place. An exquisite pleasure had invaded my senses, but individual, detached, with no suggestion of its origin. And at once the vicissitudes of life had become indifferent to me, its disasters innocuous, its brevity illusory--this new sensation having had on me the effect which love has of filling me with a precious essence; or rather this essence was not in me, it was myself. This prose is extremely complex (college graduate writing level) but not very purple. It's delving far more into the concrete to balance the abstract, and specifics over vagueness and ambiguity. I much prefer complex over purple.

Another great example of it done we'll is the battle scenes in first law.

Hi there! Apologies for the delay in responding. Discworld is a great shout! Do you have any examples of when it was done badly?

Hi There! Apologies for the delay in responding. Consistency is definitely a theme that popped up around this topic. If all were equal between two books (e.g great story, solid structure, realistic character development etc), would you choose a story with a solo perspective or one that hopped?

The thing to remember first, dual POV even within the same chapter isn’t head hopping. Head hoping by definition is being in one characters POV and reading what other characters are thinking or doing out of sight of the person who’s POV were in. That being said I think POV and how many is both genre specific and personal preference. As a predominantly romance reader/writer. I prefer more than one POV. I enjoy fantasy/sci-fi that does the same. But when reading a thriller or crime/action I like to focus on the main character.

@@chelle_nz I definitely on the point that genre and personal preference plays a large part in determining POV. The best detective stories are done from one perspective so as to not ruin the surprise, though once in a long while, I do love a good mystery where you are made to look at the same scene from different angles, especially with a humorous bent to it. How is your writing coming along?

@@theidiotonthewritersblock I too enjoy a well written mystery thriller that has another POV, though I seldom come across them. So, if you have any recs. Thanks for asking. I've got 4 published. 5 is finished, ready to be published, 6 is not far behind. But I'm currently focusing on a series, that while standalones, what makes them a series should really have them all released concurrently. So, I'm neck deep in writing 12 books at once. On top of life, career, and formatting books for others. How about you?

@@chelle_nz Holy Smokes! 12 Books?!? That’s heck of a feat. When you are able to take a break, check out "The 7½ Deaths of Evelyn Hardcastle" by Stuart Turton. Checked it out a while ago and I did enjoy it very much. I took a pause to work on a couple of other projects (stand-up comedy, film production), and while I’m still running those other projects, I’m coming back to The Writer’s Block to explore a few new trends that weren’t around when I last did a video for the channel. Should have a few videos out by mid March

Hi there! Apologies for the delay in responding. The problem arose while interviewing a number of writers who repeated a similar piece of advice, which was to not head-hop. Taken out of context or without any elaboration, one whom is still developing their skills could make that a hard rule to follow and resist the urge to tell a story from multiple perspectives. Your technique of using chapters as the boundaries for head-hopping is a fantastic choice as it provides clarity for the reader as to whose perspective is being followed in that chapter, thus, expectations are aligned. How is your story coming along?

@@theidiotonthewritersblock Thanks. I have finished the first draft. It's 58000 words, in 52 chapters that range from 220 to 3200 words. (POV switches from chapter to chapter and often between members of the protagonist and the anagonist team.) I plan to reduce the number of POV characters though. There are some whose real thoughts have to stay concealed for most of the story and others whose thoughts can be shown in dialogue. Unless I change my mind again, there may be only two members of each team remain POV characters, plus one person who is only in the prologue and gets murdered there.

@@stgr6669 So, a romance novel then? 😁

@@theidiotonthewritersblock Not really. It's a thriller, with murder and kidnapping. (If it was a movie, they'd probably put in some romance too.)

@@stgr6669 Yeah I… I figured it wasn’t… never mind. Good luck with the writing!

Thank you kindly for your comment. And I agree 100%! If the perspective switch is clear and contained, I believe the reader is rewarded

You’re welcome! An abundance of caution would be advised, I think. An alternative, if you’re having trouble with keeping it clear and contained, would be to try omniscient. It’s different because the narrator knows (mostly) everything, is a singular voice, and is the one to pull from various characters, as apposed to hopping from one consciousness and voice to another. Happy writing, and good luck!

Appreciate the comment. Let me know what you think of the overall story

Aww… I kinda like it though

@@theidiotonthewritersblock I kinda got used to it as the video went tho. Great info 👍 🌟

@@PianoMan-hx3ev Thank you!!!

@@theidiotonthewritersblock Aw, you’re welcome 😉

I LOVED your joke!

Ding ding!

Hello Chuck! Deeply appreciate the comment. I will get back to doing videos about Writing in no time. I’m currently making videos on doing Stand-up Comedy. You can check out those videos on The Idiot on the Comedy Circuit.

@@theidiotonthewritersblockcool, I love comedy. I'm always trying to throw it in my writing. I'll have to check it out 😉

As the great Ted Lasso says, I appreciate you!

Spot on! Though people may like a purple blog…

That is very astute. Some Pantsers do describe their technique as therapeutic too as they just spew out what’s in their brain

I’m praying for you too. Let me know if you make any money… 🤞🏽🤞🏽🤞🏽

That’s absolutely right! You can rewrite a story for a whole decade and after it has been published, you’ll find a line or two you wish you had re-written. Michael La Ronn has the best advice about that. Just put out the work and move on. Fix your mistakes in the next book you write.

Of course there are no “one-size-fits-all” rule sets out there. I feel those with “rules” are trying to push what the basics are, and once you know the basics, you can bend and break those rules well enough to be innovative. And then some books that just hit an audience at the right time in the right way that it’s tempting to throw out the rule books. But those are the exceptions that prove the rule, otherwise there would be more 50 Shades equally as successful. The mainstream successes follow a formula. But that in itself brings up the point of “mainstream success”, cos you’re looking at the gatekeepers who approve what is a mainstream success and so they have a vested interest in establishing what rules your book should follow to meet their demands.

Mail on the head. If you write for you and your audience, who cares what techniques you use? If you like it and the readers for whom you write like it, then mission accomplished. I always refer back to Hitchhikers (though many more do the same) when it comes to random hops and I’m there for it all day

Check out my new channel @The Idiot On The Comedy Circuit and let me know what you think

I think in those situations, they mean you can write the actions of others but not with the intention behind the action. The POV character may not know why the Thug picked up sword instead of the gun. So a line like, “He watched her chose the blade because it reminded her of the hours her mother spent training her how to use one, while the gun oil reeked of her drunken dad.” No bueno…

I think in those situations, they mean you can write the actions of others but not with the intention behind the action. The POV character may not know why the Thug picked up sword instead of the gun. So a line like, “He watched her choose the blade because it reminded her of the hours her mother spent training her how to use one, while the gun oil reeked of her drunken dad.” is a no-go…

@@theidiotonthewritersblock Yeah I get you but still the fact that they say action really could confuse some inspiring authors and make them what's the point of having other characters in the scene if I can't write about other characters in said scene, if you get my meaning.

What do your readers say about it?

@@theidiotonthewritersblock not really heard complaints

It IS fun, right?! I think the fear/worry people have when they hear “head-hopping” is when it’s used terribly; where you would need 2-3 readings of a paragraph to understand who is speaking to whom at what point. But like you said, if you can clearly establish who is in the scene and from whose perspective we are viewing the action, you’re golden to ply with form. What is the name of your trilogy? Put a plug in here!

@@theidiotonthewritersblock The quinton trilogy :)

That’s a very good point, and makes me consider this: could one person’s purple be another’s simple? As Tolkien and George wrote in different times, could it be that in 30s-50s, Tolkien’s prose may not have been considered purple when it came out?

@@theidiotonthewritersblock that would make sense. And also I think the fact that modern people watch a lot more television and movies than they did back then In my writing, I often feel like I'm in competition with television... Which I love. 😉. Also, I've heard that Tolkien was literally paid by the word. So he would be overly descriptive because the publishers wanted it and he was getting paid for it.

@@chuckwieser7622 Yup. If I was paid per word, you know I’d find twelve ways to describe “chair”. I would describe it with so many words, it would be an alien concept after I was through. Script writing is the complete opposite. Direct and straight to the point!

@@theidiotonthewritersblock 😆 🤣 😂 oh yeah--Daddy needs a new pair of Loafers... and a Black and White 📺, because it's the 1950's

​@@chuckwieser7622 I've never been a huge fan of Tolkien's writing style in spite of loving a lot of fantasy and sci-fi and vividly descriptive writing (Ray Bradbury, Robert E. Howard, Lance Vance, etc). I'm at least somewhat a fan of ASoIaF, and far more so than LOTR. For me, maybe LOTR is just so heavy on lore and backstory. I'm too much of a layman to literature and not at all a writer to fully articulate why it's not my cup I tea, but I felt constantly lost reading it as it introduced so many new characters, deep lineages, drawing out maps verbally like Gondor to the west and the forboding Mordor to the east with all the locations in between which quickly evaporate from my brain. I felt somewhat like I was reading an encyclopedia with a story in the middle. It's heavy on describing things IIRC but not necessarily what I consider the most descriptive writing of the sort that immerses me into the setting which focuses a lot on sensations like how things look, taste, sound, smell, and feel to the touch.

I hear you, Chuck! Meg is the best. You checked out Michael La Ronn’s channel yet?

@@theidiotonthewritersblock I'm not sure... I'll look it up right now

@@theidiotonthewritersblock oh yeah, I forgot his last name. But yeah, and a lot of Reedsy/ ShaelinWrites, Alyssa Matesic, Alexa Donne, Abbie Emmons, and Jenna Moreci

@@theidiotonthewritersblock Also Daniel James has some real cool videos on the writing style of James Joyce, Hemingway, Hunter S. Thompson and others... Plus the dude must love the classics because he's got like a giant tattoo of Hemingway on his chest. Crazy!!!

I’ll look up Daniel James. Always looking for recommendations. Ooh! And Sacha Black. She’s got an awesome podcast too.

Thank you kindly! I am in the hopes that pivoting to one project will tap the well of the other and inspire creativity in both! But what do I know? Make sure you follow both channels to find out.

Thank you!

That is a great analogy for purple prose. However, Could there be a certain amount of sticky syrup that isn’t too much and instead adds to the delight when you get to the chestnut? A pro po of nothing, I’m hungry…

@@theidiotonthewritersblock To me, a few chestnuts are good which are usually purple in nature. The point is, too much of that and the good stuff doesn't stand out, it losses meaning and impact. It distracts the reader from the story. What serves the story is good, which by extension, serves the reader. Too many writers get lost in the joy of making words and forget that the effort must satisfy the reader first and not the author's ego.

Agreed. Being purple for purple sake is obvious and tedious to read.

Always happy to hear the work has helped someone. Head-hop to your heart’s content, and hope to read your work soon!

Deeply appreciate the comment. Let me know if there are any questions you want to ask and I’ll get working on another video.

I have always been here… for about a year or so. Sorry. But hey, it’s not too late, right? Is your ready out and ready to be seen? Cos I’m happy to get you on the show

I deeply appreciate your comment. I hope the other videos are just as helpful; I know I clowned a lot in them. Let me know if there are other questions you would like me to ask my experts.

What I have found from speaking with other writers and editors is that you can still explore what others in your scene are thinking, you just need to punctuate the perspective flip for the reader otherwise it may become difficult to digest as you read. And I get it; if you are reading a scene that you feel is from Person A’s POV, they won’t know that Person B is thinking about how they missed breakfast and could really do with a Snickers. So for that thought to automatically pop up can be a bit jarring. If, however, you sign-post that you are now reading from Person AB’s pov, then it flows easily. But what do I know?! Thanks for watching the video. Will be back making more soon.

I agree whole-heartedly. As with everything, there are people who will do it amazingly and some that will do it terribly. As an idiot, I would recommend landing in either one of those two camps. Either you’ll get lauded for being amazing or free publicity when people say you are terrible! Thanks for watching the video. Watch more, subscribe and share! I’m working up a few more videos

Thank you for your message. I would prefer to have more organic views and subscribers though. Happy for you to subscribe and share to people you think the videos will help.