This scene was masterful. Londo knew he was walking into the next room to be enslaved, to have his life, his ambitions, his very mind stolen away. And he did it anyway, to save his people, and to save the Narn. This scene is a perfect display of how Londo grew from a petty, spiteful, debaucherous, mid level bureaucrat, to a man willing to give up all that he was, all that he ever would be to save a people he had spent his entire life despising. Londo wasn't a hero, but walking into that room and facing that fate was a heroic act.
I think he was a hero from that moment on. I didn´t read the books about his time till the end, but I hear he did what he could to help his people and fight back against the Drakh.
Remember what Lady Morella said: "You must save the eye that does not see (The eye that G'Kar lost), you must not kill the one who is already dead (Morden) and at the last, you must surrender yourself to your greatest fear, knowing that it will destroy you. Now if you have failed all the others, that if your final chance for redemption." Londo knew he had no other choice, it was be destroyed and have his soul redeemed or die and burn in hell.
I love that line and when vir wants too understand what he means he just tells him too hope he never does. You can tell bir is more then an assistent too Londo
Babylon 5 is not only the most underrated show of all time; it is the greatest show of all time, and it is the REASON that we have so many multi-season continual arcs in shows today. Yes, other shows TRIED to do it before, but Babylon 5 was the first to show that it could be done RIGHT, and could be done WELL, and that fans would still watch. The current "arc-based" shows are all thanks to Babylon 5 redefining television as we know it.
Shaun Barry ripped off ideas poorly but not just from Babylon 5 but most of what they took or borrowed they made more bland by the doing it. remember J Michael straczynski saying when asked if he had borrowed from both the Bible and Lord of the Rings, if you're going to steal steal the good stuff.
Peter Jurasik and Andreas Katsulas masterfully brought to life two of the most wonderfully complex characters ever in science fiction. Babylon 5 was so underrated. But I love it all the same. Mollari's reaction at 2:35 said it all for this clip. G'Kar forgiving him lifted his burden of guilt and gave him some small measure of resolution in spite of all that had happened. They met as enemies, but parted as friends. So wonderfully done.
it's production value aged terribly, and i'm torn between wanting to see it remade, and knowing the remake would be prettier, but lose all the nuance these characters had.
@@Kail917 no....leave this series totally alone and free from all SJW and WOKEness... the characters as preformed here are priceless and need to remain untainted by revisionist history
I'll always think that it was G'Kar's forgiveness that gives Londo the strength at the last moment to go through with what's coming. It gives him hope for his own redemption at the end of the long years of pain and grief that are coming. How fitting that G'Kar is his deliverer at the end as well.
I love the fact that Londo drops so many hints throughout this last conversation about his situation. He can't come right out and say what's wrong, but he knows that he can warn his friend to be suspicious about his actions in the future.
A far cry from the Season 3, Episode 2 when the two were trapped on an elevator, G'Kar happy to die so he can see Molari die too, and then when rescued his disappointment followed by this exchange. G'Kar: Aghhh! Molari (laughing): There, you see. I'm going to live. G'Kar: So it would seem. Well, it is an imperfect universe. Molari: Bastard. G'Kar: Monster. Molari: Fanatic! G'Kar: Murderer! Molari: You are INSANE! G'Kar: And that is why we'll win! Molari: 'Go be the ambassador to Babylon 5.', they say. 'It will be an easy assignment.' (sighs) I hate my life. G'Kar: So do I. Molari: SHUT UP! One of my favourite scenes.
From the people's thoughts I read on their first watching, the elevator seems to really stand out as a point where people really recognise the acting for what it was.
In the DVD extras it was revealed that the elevator scene was supposed to be more serious and the actors went off script and ad libbed; it was so good that they kept the scene.
That shut up bit also reminds me of when Londo says they won't throw him in jail with G'kar and then they do and he looks at G'kar who says nothing and goes "Shut up....."
@@max_power3386 Yes. Katsulas started to laugh. And he was so good that he was allowed to play the scene as he likes as long as he follow the script :) He made it better than was originally planned - it's what only the great actors can do.
It is with out a doubt in my top 5 list of great writing and character portrayal. Not to mention so down right funny in so serious a situation. Deleen in the last episode sitting watching the Sunrise as Sheridan leans forward , Then she looks over to where he was sitting and the bench is empty is my top moment and brings tears right now thinking about it.
That smile Londo gives him... it becomes even more affecting when you realise that this is probably the literal last time Londo ever feels genuine happiness.
Agreed, though perhaps he feels it again in his last moments. G'Kar comes again, and gives his life to end Londo's suffering, to give his death some last meaning.
when he drinks enough to escape his keeper, perhaps that is a kind of relative happiness ... "oh Gods Vir", ......... I'm sure he could only wish for Vir's wisdom by that stage in time!
One Narn forgiving one Centari. That's how it starts. One person at a time, in forgiveness. Human history is rife with bitterness and vengeance. But the chains of hatred and anger can be broken, the cycle of violence, bloodshed, and death, can be ended. In time.
Could. The right word would be 'could'. It's just a possibility, but a rather unlikely one. Remember the old Centauri Emperor who wanted to apologize to the Narn and got killed before he could? What followed was extinction level war. Because violence is always the easier answer in the short run. Fear leads to hatred and that path is quicker, easier, more tempting ...
And peoples memories are long, longer than their own life spans even. I'd prefer not to drift off into real world examples, but I've heard some very hostile things said to me, because my nation was once a colonial power, by people who are from places that were once considered colonies of the my country, well over a lifetime ago. They themselves didnt suffer any indignities, nor was I responsible for said indignities, yet I was subject to blame and hatred regardless, and in my defense, I retaliated, thus, old enmities thought long forgotten, resurface. It's an full time job, forgiveness and letting go, one the human race most certainly hasnt mastered.
@@toffeecrisp2146 That's how it goes. At what point has enough time passed that people should let go of the past? . I wonder that whenever I see people complaining about things from at least century ago as if they happened recently. How far back is too far for it to not matter? The answer seems to be up to whatever's most convenient for the one who's outraged at the time. . Otherwise, they might get a taste of their own medicine with the blame game.
Two of the best cast, best written, best developed and best acted roles in cinematic history. When a 3 minute scene can both stab you in the heart and give you hope for the future you know you are seeing something uncommon. For it to be a continuing and constant thing in a multi-season series is extraordinary.
First time watching B5 I skipped the first season and I didn't know Londo actually knew he was going to die at J'Gar's hands....but my God the emotional impact of that scene at the end when it came to pass killed me at the time he thought he was going to be choking JGar out of hate...by the end...he was basically pleading for a mercy kill oh and also not mentioned was the fact that if Gkar didn't die then and there....he'd be probably killed in some horrific way and slowly by the government
I definitely woukjt recommend skipping the first season. It establishes a lot of important world building and characterization. It also has Babylon Squared and Mind Wars, which are extremely important for later.
@@gilgamesh310 Some major foreshadowing happened during this season even though it started out ruff and kind of crappy I look back and agree you need to watch it to understand some important plot points later on.
"Isn't it strange G'kar, when we first met, I had no power and all the choices I could ever want .... and now I have all the power I could ever want ... and no choices at all .... no choice at all!" ~ poor Londo .. I truly feel sorry for him!
Politics, oppression, war, peace, failed negotiations, betrayals, deep friendships, love, heartbreak, art, religion, faith, scientific theories and possibilities....and hatred and forgiveness. Babylon 5 had flaws...but it was PRICELESS.
@@JCDFlex Absolutely. Discovery is crap. I meant "was" in the past tense in relation to the fact that it is no longer aired on Television. I remember back when Star Trek was something else too. It was amazing. But yeah, crap we got today? I could find B List independent films from the 60s that were better on a smaller budget.
there is a saying that I read somewhere that goes like this, The best masterpieces in art ALL have a flaw, the Master Artist knows were to place the flaw to make the masterpiece what it is. Lesser artist must learn this or fail.
"You've just made a mistake Mollari! Even if my associates are not here, they have allies! They'll make sure the Centauri pays the price for what you just did here today!"
G'kar may have delivered more powerful and chilling speeches than this, but I don't think he ever made a stronger statement than those four words: "I can forgive you."
Forgiveness is for the forgiver, not necessarily the forgiven. Living with anger and hate destroys the self. I have people in my life I cannot forgive, I just don't know how. It's like asking me to wiggle my ears. I don't have control over the muscles that could accomplish that.
"I cannot imagine the day when I will forgive myself." "Because it will never come. One day others may try to convince you they have forgiven you. That is more about them than you. For them, imparting forgiveness is a blessing." "How do you go on?" "It is simple. You will never forgive yourself. Accept it."
Moments like this are the reason that Babylon 5 isn't just one of the best sci-fi shows of all time, but one of the best TV shows of all time _period!_
I finally forgave people who harmed me deeply, out of selfishness (emotional well-being) . . . I found it set me free very . . . paradoxically the more I forgive the more my well-being improves.
I have found the ability to forgive has been the single best quality I have. Even if it is not at its highest capacity, It has helped me more than whatever limited physical strength, intelligence or professional skill I have. I genuinely feel it is the key part of the reason I feel happy in life and genuinely like almost everyone I interact with.
@@Trisjack20 how timely . . . This morning I woke up feeling the need to pray and meditate on forgiveness to perfect (as best I can . . . day to day) the work of forgiveness in my being. Thanks brother for your encouraging words!!!
@@danielmedina2078 it is kind of you to take the time to reply mate. We can't control others actions but we can take control of our own. Thank you for what you are trying to do to make the world just that little bit nicer! 1 at a time right?
Considering these are the last free words spoken by Londo makes this scene heartbreaking. When you look at the history of Londo & G'Kar of the battles, trapped in a lift, making up, falling out. As a fan of B5 this type of storyline hardly exists in other shows today.
It's shocking just bad the writing in TV and movies has become, rife with politics and diversity, hammered in at every opportunity despite the harm it does to the material. Babylon 5 was superb, only The Expanse comes close today.
@@vinnyganzano1930 And even then. I absolutely love the Expanse, fantastic epic story telling, but the way you related to many of the B5 characters, the Expanse cannot, even though you grow quite fond of the characters, but a heartbreaking scene like this, the combination of both superb writing as well as acting is rare indeed.
Among many others. For example the "Narn shall be free speech" is another, the epilogue to "Zha-ha Dum", the epilogue when B5 is being shut down. I could go on for a long time ...
Would G'Kar have been as good a character without the outstanding performance of Andreas Katsulas? To act and actually express emotions through the make up and prosthetics shows just how skilled an actor he truly was.
Londo's journey was so well constructed. Under it all, he just wanted to help his people, but he ended up doomed by the horrible decisions he made to do that.
And I really think that was what separated the characters in their fates, and yet made them empathize with each other. Both realized that had the die fallen the other way, their positions could've easily been reversed. I do wonder what the story would've been like if Mr. Morden had chosen to help G'Kar instead of Londo.
It's not just Londo's decisions - his stated goal was... ill-judged. He wanted to turn back the clock to a golden age that probably never was, where the Centauri were masters of their own fate rather than having to accommodate their neighbours. In the end, he recognised that pursuing those dreams, while they gave him the personal power he thought he wanted (as one of the most trusted advisors to the mad emperor), came at too high a price. I always put the turning point of Londo's arc at the bombardment of Narn. That's the moment he sees that it's not just old school ties and whispered conversations in the corridors of power, but that there are real and terrible consequences to his choices. And Peter Jurasik conveyed it all with just his face. Meanwhile G'Kar started out as almost a cartoon villain - attempting dastardly deeds only to be foiled and storm off in an incoherent rage. He was a guerilla, fighting a war of terror, but seeking not to make his people leaders of the galaxy; just to make them strong enough that they could never be slaves again, and see the Centauri broken so they could never do to another what they did to the Narn. His turning point is even clearer - that scene in Dust to Dust where he has a religious vision. From that point, his position is no longer "Narn must survive" but rather "we must save who we can, even the Centauri". The other point of consideration in Morden's choice of who to support would have been that Narn didn't need the Shadows' help - they were already beating the Centauri, and, without Morden's intervention, either Emperor Turhan's apology would have let the conflict fizzle out, or the Narn would have pressed until the Centauri were forced to rouse themselves and fight back, and the two civilisations would have dragged each other down. Morden's support might have let the Narn win and enslave the Centauri in return, but it would have been much harder to send them after other races while there were still people alive who remembered life under the Centauri.
Londo did save his people in the end. He paved the way for Vir to become Emperor and in the novels he drove off the Drakk and brought really prosperity to Centari
My father, rest his soul, never quite grasped which one of then was the "bad guy". And I'm eternally grateful for the series that showed me things are not black and white. And some must be sacrificed if all are to be saved.
According to legend, before shooting the first episode, JMS took Andreas Katsulas and Peter Jurasik (the actors for G'Kar and Londo, respectively) aside and had them flip a coin to determine who would be "the bad guy"... and then swore them both to secrecy. None of them have ever said who it was... as it should be.
@@JamaicanCastle - I'd say it was Londo. Both had the option of working with the Shadows. Granted, G'Kar had limited vision and ambition compared to Londo...which may be why the Shadows allied with him and not G'Kar, but Londo's motivations were not evil per se. Indeed, it seemed Londo was more horrified at what an alliance with the Shadows entailed once he had committed himself.
I was only a kid when I watched B5 the first time around. I was there for the sci-fi pew-pew... scenes like this were lost on me, but I can appreciate it so much more now!
This scene really shows how far G’Kar had come since being ambassador on Babylon 5. Took a lot of gained humility and understanding for him to do that which you see through the 5 seasons. Made this moment even more special. Loved this show
Thank you fellow fans. Your replies are everything I was thinking of. Thumbs up to you all. So many great moments in this show. This one is right up there with G'kars reply to the young Narn who mocked him when he would not become the ruler. Walking way laughing "What I have endured".
I think maybe this moment helped give Londo the strength to face the long, bleak road that he knew was ahead of him. Just a quiet moment of hope - hope that he might one day find true forgiveness for this choices. I'm a huge fan of the ensemble cast, and that all the characters are important, but I believe that it is truly more Londo's story than any other single character's.
Babylon 5 is full of them, but this one always has me in tears. *Sheridan (recording):* _Finally, I heard what you said when you left. I want you to know .._ _.. I love you Delenn._ _Goodbye._
It is even sadder when you realise that Londo is trying to tell G'Kar about his keeper using cryptic comments but G'Kar fails to pick up on it and responds with, "I understand."
@Alysandir You miss my point. The sadness is not from G'Kar not understanding the truth. The sadness is from Londo fighting desperately to reveal his situation, but failing. Londo the patriot will spend the next 16 years being forced to betray his own people and unable to reveal the reasons for his actions; just one more mad Centauri emperor for the history books. That Londo brought this on himself through his previous actions makes it a true tragedy. Having G'Kar reach some level of understanding in the final moments of Londo's life is a pale comfort.
When you know what these two characters have been through, this scene just rips your heart out and gives you a little more hope for the real world. Briiant actors...
"when we first met I had no power and all the choices I could ever want; now I have all the power I could ever want and no choices at all - no choice at all" a sadly over looked line about the nature of climbing the power ladder: by the time you're in a position to change the world, you're no longer allowed to
The good thing about JMS is that the he writes B5 with the big picture in mind. All plots have multiple threads and they sooner or later come together in a meaningful way. Many scenes and what was said in them makes so much more sense and get a different meaning when you see them again.
THIS is a master class in how you make years of character development, conflict, and evolution pay off. Lots of other shows could and should have learned from this.
OneBigBugga be honest they were an old married couple... that was far better than a more bromance. Hmm I need to dust off the DVDs and take another trip beyond the rim.
@@chaosincarna Dude in the show they were compared to a married couple multiple times. Calm down a little. It's just a bit of fun. The show is allowed to be fun you know.
All of B5 explained in two lines. "When we met I had no power and all the choices. Now I have all the power and no choices" MJS - thank you for holding on to your dream and making this as you envisioned it.
I think Ivanova summed it up perfectly in "Sleeping in Light": Babylon 5 was the last of the Babylon stations. There would never be another. It changed the future and it changed us. It taught us that we have to create the future or others will do it for us. It showed us that we have to care for one another, because if we don't, who will? And that true strength sometimes comes from the most unlikely places. Mostly, though, I think it gave us hope, that there can always be new beginnings. Even for people like us.
ironic. londo is about to be crowned emperor and yet.........it looks like he walked off to be executed. and the only person who he could really trust at that moment was a man who he originally wanted to see dead. B5. truly a space opera if there ever was one.
It was as Londo said, "In the beginning, he was a nobody with all the choices to have. Now he was to be Emperor with no choices whatsoever." What's kinda funny is in G'kar's case, he started as a member of the ruling body of Narn with no choices. He was dead set on doing anything he could to undermine the Centauri. Now he is just a regular citizen...with all the choices to be had. We last see G'kar joining Lyta as they board a ship with the freedom to go anywhere.
Londo was about the be crowned, but the price was having a Keeper merge with him and the Drakk control him for the rest of his life. I truly believe in this scene, you can see not only Londo warning G'Kar of understanding to much, eg the Keeper and the Drakk, but also, in the moment of forgiveness from G'Kar, finding the last piece of strength he needed to give up everything, his Freedom and Liberty and happyness to save his people.
it's also rather poetic. these two men, respresentatives of their races, having centuries of hatred and bitterness, started out hating each other. and then they became the best of friends. and i think it truly meant a lot for g'kar to say those words to him. "i can forgive you". because in the end, i think londo wanted that the most: someone to forgive him for the mistakes he made.
This is Academy Award level acting. Specifically from Peter Juarasik but also from Andreas, who deserves it for so many other scenes. This is passion level theatre in front of a TV camera. Never seen it this intense, before or since.
It has the quality of a confession prior to execution, and rightly so. G'kar is the most injured party, the one who has suffered the most for Londo's mistakes. Perhaps this moment is what gives Londo the strength to take those last steps to the end of his freedom. In the flashback montage that comes right after this, I think maybe Londo begins to realize that G'kar will in the end be his deliverer - the one who helps Londo finally redeem himself for the past.
"It has occurred to me recently that I have never chosen anything. I was born into a role that was prepared for me. I did everything I was asked to do because it never occurred to me to choose otherwise. And now, at the end of my life, I wonder what might have been." - Centauri Emperor Turhan
In "A view from the gallery" (the one that follows two maintenance workers) Londo and G'kar have a conversation where Londo says he never had a childhood, he always had responsibilities. For me, that scene always clashed with this one. So did he have more options/choices then even though he was saddled with responsibilities when young? Essentially, what he is doing now is fufilling a responsibility to his people: to protect them. I would say his responsibilities just grew exponentially in scale but he never had much control over his life. That's what made him such a real and tragic character; he never had full control, like we don't. Rarely can people go willy-nilly wherever and whenever they want without some consequences to themselves or others around them.
@@tomsko863 I don't think the scenes clash at all. In fact, I'd say it's pretty consistent characterization: self-pity was always one of Londo's greatest flaws, and who is more pitiable than someone with no control over their life or choices. Londo's life was replete with choices before he became Emperor, but he imagined the people and circumstances surrounding him left him with none in order to shunt responsibility for his choices onto those people and circumstances. Once he became Emperor those choices were taken away from him in a way that he couldn't have dreamt of even in the deepest pits of his self-pity, and only then, as he makes one of the last real choices of his life does he appreciate that.
Still gives me chills because of the context between these two characters. The evolution of their relationship is one of the many wonderful gems in this show.
One of the greatest moments on television of it's time. Gkar is so underrated. For two mortal enemies to make peace in such a genuine way, after literally years of conflict...
The way Londo paused for so long in that last handshake/arm grasp. It's like he was trying to make it so he'd remember G'Kar as his friend, knowing that what was coming might rob him of that, either through action or thought. One last look at an old friend, and the pain in his eyes as he did so.
...And in the back of our minds we know this saga ends with G'Kar having strangle Mollari before the critter wakes up in order to save Sheridan and Delenn's lives, and the critter waking up and using Mollari's body to strangle G'Kar back. It makes this scene even more of a tear-jerker, I think.
@@fenwar9060 In the episodes where the team with Sinclair went back in time to steal Babylon 4, Sheridan got "unstuck in time," which meant he got jumped around time. In one jump, he went to the future, where Lando revealed to Sheridan and Delenn the alien stuck to his body (which falls asleep when he's drunk, as in this scene) and informed them of the control he's been under and begged for them to free his people. After letting them go (for they had been captured and imprisoned), G'kar appears, and Londo said something like, "You know what you need to do," for he would be back under the creature's control when it woke, and it would know what he did. So G'kar began to strangle him, then the creature woke up and stangled G'kar back, fulfilling Lando's cause of death prophecy, that they would choke each other to death.
It’s also in the Centauri trilogy of novels. G’Kar did it to save Sheridan, Delenn and Londo. He was just made away of the keeper and did it to free his friend (Londo had just referred to him as his greatest enemy and greatest friend).
"Isn't it strange G'Kar, when we first met, I had no power and all the choices I could ever want ... and now I have all the power I could ever want, and no choices at all .... no choice at all! ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, "Mollari.... understand ... that I can never forgive your people for what they did to my world .... my people can never forgive your people ... but ..... *I* can forgive ... you!"
That arm-grip at the end was the equivalent of them hugging while crying on each other's shoulders. In fact, until I saw this scene again, that's what I remembered them doing. False memory born of emotional impressions.
I’m not sure G’Kar is right here. If Londo can ask for forgiveness (not in words, but in the subtext) from G’Kar and G’Kar can offer it freely, maybe there’s some hope for the Centauri and the Narn.
i`ve learned that forgiveness is one of the most wonderful gifts that one person can give another, which is why this scene brings me to tears every time i watch it. G`kar and londo`s interactions on the show was a big part of why i enjoyed it as much as i did.
Gakar and Londo started as bitter rivals, but ended as the deepest of friends. I do not mean here, i mean years later when they are old men. Londo ask his friend for mercy, and Gakar gives it at the cost of his own life. Freeing Londo from the influence of the Drahk.
This was such a transient moment, but it changed the story for the life of two enemies forever. It mirrors real life in a way that most tv shows will never touch because it's such an aberration, but possible.
Amazing scene, and one of the defining moments between the best two characters of the series. This is like Shakespeare. Hamlet, finally getting power and then consumed by it. Love to B5
Babylon 5 had 3 main themes, the neverending struggle against darkness and tyranny, the weight and responsabilty of power, you must be held accountable for your actions and the need for forgiveness. This 2 characters sum all that up in a masterful way. This is what places B5 apart from all other sci fi.
This scene Is what Babylon 5 was all about. The relationship between G'Kar and Londo, and the changes they went through. IMO This is at the heart of the 5 year arc.
This one actually made me shed a tear or two. Only Straczynski (because of his past) could have written someting so powerful and Peter and Andreas did a magnificent job delivering the lines. Why, oh Why is Babylon 5 still Sci-Fi's best kept secret?.
B5 has it all. Philosofy, poetry, scandals, triumphs, wars, peace, conspiracies and collaboration, death camps and peace camps. And the best line of all: We are all Star Stuff. The universe made manifest trying to understand itself. Have a great day dear friends and peace to all who left us beyond the rim.
Some day the rest of society might just catch up to just how great this show truly is. This show should be required viewing and study material for teens and college students. I watched it in my teen years and the show literally changed my life and entire perspective on things. I would not be the same person I am today without having seen the Babylon 5 series. It's truly changed my life for the better.
i agree, it's quite deep in it's tropes... but in my opinion it doesn't quite go deep enough. if they continued it to the point of the centauri liberating themselves from the drakh, or the minbari seperating their souls from humanity to regain their nobility. or what the narn will innevitably become... also the show was humanist, and humanism has inherent problems aswell that weren't explored. i'll never forget the vorlon line:"the others are an abomination." @_@ that show really started to take off in the end, but it never fully took a nose dive into the philosophical abyss it teased at.
True, some good points and yes the show could have gone even further. I felt it did kind of reach a bit of a climax in season 4. Season 5 was kind of a winding down. At the same time It did open up some paths which were never fully resolved or explored. The problem with Crusade was that the story just didn't seem rich enough compared to what had already been done with B5. That and they didn't use Christopher Frankie for the music anymore which in my opinion took away a lot.
yes the music really set the theme, which is a rarity for tv these days. all that said the politcs of earth throughout the show and by extension psi core and what it became really took things to the proper perspective.
Mr. Extreme, I can say the same. It caused me to look at people and life critically. I am still amazed at people catagorizing things as "good" or "bad". Good for who? You? The Londo/G'kar storylines showed that the lines are not clear, and in my opinion, don't exist at all.
@@thedarkmaster4747 "The minbari seperating their souls from humanity to regain their nobility", who told you that was supposed to happen? The combination was a positive, not something that had to be rectified.
So much of the B5 dialogue is poetic , this series wisely didnt let itself get bogged down by techno-babble gobbledygook like in ST , ( A great set of series themselves) . Sometimes , two weird looking aliens gazing at each other with weary , wounded affection is BETTER than an inverse tachyon pulse and let me tell ya something ; An inverse tachyon pulse can solve a great many things.
The original Star Trek was intended as hard SF - most of the technological marvels were taken for granted - no-one ever stops to explain how the automatic doors work; they just approach a door and it gets out of the way - any more than Dick Tracy explained how his handgun worked. When TOS indulged in technobabble, it was because someone had come up with some cool bit of (speculative) science and wanted to build (part of) an episode around it - for example, the Devil in the Dark features a silicon-based life-form, and the whole episode is built around the hypothetical biology of such a creature. From TNG onwards, they had two writing teams. There were the primary script writers, who would write a script, establishing the entire narrative arc of the episode, including any conflicts and their resolutions, except whenever they got out of their depth, they'd just write [tech] in the script and indicate the required properties of the magic needed at that point. Then the second team, the technical consultants, came in and had to fill in the [tech] with something that sounded vaguely plausible and didn't obviously conflict with anything previously established in canon. B5 is a lot closer to TOS - when it's important for the plot, they explain how the tech works, but they never feel like they're inventing the tech to houdini out of the corner they've written themselves into - and if some bit of technobabble's significant one week, there's a good chance it'll come up again in a later episode, unlike later Star Trek series where, having saved the day once, the innovation is quietly forgotten about and never comes up again. One of the "rules" people have come up with for the use of magic in fantasy is that the magic can cause whatever problems you need with little or no explanation, but if you're going to solve the problems with magic, then that magic needs to be well understood by the audience - and, by extension, the writer. You can probably see where I'm going with this - technology indistinguishable from magic (such as TNG onward uses) has to follow the same rules - if the audience doesn't feel like they could have anticipated Geordi's explanation of how triggering a Chi-particle cascade through the warp core would create an electric potential around the fringes of the warp bubble, electrocuting anything in contact with it, then you shouldn't be using that to scare off the giant space amoeba. And yes, I know they probably never did quite that during any of the episodes, but that's part of my point - the technobabble is meaningless beyond the individual episode, and does nothing to help you understand. They could just as well get someone to stand in an airlock spraying Bat-Space-Amoeba-Repellent...
ST has many great episodes without Techno babble at all, and only human conflict at its core, or similar. Watch Darmok, Measure of a man, Drumhead etc.
@@moproodu True. The explanation or lack of it has more to do with the general realism of the setting - people don't go around explaining how electric lighting works; they just flip a switch and take the illumination for granted (and most people don't actually know the details anyway). It's only if you have someone a bit geeky who might actually know how things work, and an outsider who might not know what things do that you're likely to get any sort of explanation - and even then, people like me have learned to check whether someone really wants to know before going beyond the "flip switch, light comes on" level of explanation. On the other hand, mentioning midiclorians doesn't make something hard sci-fi either. What really makes something hard sci-fi is having the details worked out somewhere so you can publish the technical manuals, or plot where the Enterprise should have been able to reach. To be fair, Babylon 5 dropped the ball on galactic scale too - Narn homeworld is established as being almost exactly 10 (Narn) light years from the station. In real life, the star Epsilon Eridani (said to be the location of B5 in the show) is a little over 10 light years away too. Travel time is a couple of days, which would put the galactic rim (a quarter million light years away) a decade or so distant through hyperspace. Meanwhile, the Icarus made it to Z'ha'dum, out on the Rim, in maybe as much as months, and White Stars are shown to get there and back within an episode... And, of course, written SF has an advantage over TV/movies in that it has both plenty of spare time/page-count to spend laying out the technical details, and access to both a narrator and appendices to allow the working to be shown without needing to have a tourist ask Sheldon Cooper how light switches work... None of which takes away from my original (poorly expressed) point that the technobabble in Star Trek increased as the scifi got softer.
@@rmsgrey much of the inconsistency in distance may have to do with how they travel: hyperspace rather than folding space principal (Star Trek, Stargate, etc) or instant jumps/wormhole (BSG, Farscape...) which is an entirely separate dimensional plane they travel through (as it has tides and energies are volatile enough that no intelligent species engages in combat while in hyperspace) so it may work like an M.C Esher painting in terms of traveling.
The story arc of these two characters was both magnificent and tragic. There’ll never be anything like B5 ever again. I watched every episode once a week on late night TV here in Australia and stumbled into work the next morning bleary eyed but also frequently amazed by what I had seen…
This scene was masterful. Londo knew he was walking into the next room to be enslaved, to have his life, his ambitions, his very mind stolen away. And he did it anyway, to save his people, and to save the Narn. This scene is a perfect display of how Londo grew from a petty, spiteful, debaucherous, mid level bureaucrat, to a man willing to give up all that he was, all that he ever would be to save a people he had spent his entire life despising. Londo wasn't a hero, but walking into that room and facing that fate was a heroic act.
I think he was a hero from that moment on. I didn´t read the books about his time till the end, but I hear he did what he could to help his people and fight back against the Drakh.
Remember what Lady Morella said: "You must save the eye that does not see (The eye that G'Kar lost), you must not kill the one who is already dead (Morden) and at the last, you must surrender yourself to your greatest fear, knowing that it will destroy you. Now if you have failed all the others, that if your final chance for redemption."
Londo knew he had no other choice, it was be destroyed and have his soul redeemed or die and burn in hell.
Outstanding statemrent😊😊😊
G'Kar and Londo were the beating heart of this story.
" My shoes are too tight"
"... and I've forgotten how to dance."
I love that line and when vir wants too understand what he means he just tells him too hope he never does. You can tell bir is more then an assistent too Londo
I loved that scene!
Goes to show that B5 is the most underrated show of all time.
Very true and we all know Depp Space 9 ripped so many ideas off.. Best Sci fi series ever
As JMS said...Live and let live...
Someone don't want you to see the truth, B5 has a lot of truths.
Babylon 5 is not only the most underrated show of all time; it is the greatest show of all time, and it is the REASON that we have so many multi-season continual arcs in shows today. Yes, other shows TRIED to do it before, but Babylon 5 was the first to show that it could be done RIGHT, and could be done WELL, and that fans would still watch. The current "arc-based" shows are all thanks to Babylon 5 redefining television as we know it.
Shaun Barry ripped off ideas poorly but not just from Babylon 5 but most of what they took or borrowed they made more bland by the doing it.
remember J Michael straczynski saying when asked if he had borrowed from both the Bible and Lord of the Rings, if you're going to steal steal the good stuff.
Peter Jurasik and Andreas Katsulas masterfully brought to life two of the most wonderfully complex characters ever in science fiction. Babylon 5 was so underrated. But I love it all the same.
Mollari's reaction at 2:35 said it all for this clip. G'Kar forgiving him lifted his burden of guilt and gave him some small measure of resolution in spite of all that had happened. They met as enemies, but parted as friends. So wonderfully done.
..parted as friends with their hands wrapped around each other's throats as they choked the life out of each other.
It makes sense in context.
Saving their friends. Heroes in the end.
it's production value aged terribly, and i'm torn between wanting to see it remade, and knowing the remake would be prettier, but lose all the nuance these characters had.
@@Kail917
If it had some type of visual fx remaster, along the lines of Trek TOS, I would be happy.
I can't justify a remake.
@@Kail917 no....leave this series totally alone and free from all SJW and WOKEness... the characters as preformed here are priceless and need to remain untainted by revisionist history
Being forgiven by G'kar was the last time Londo would ever feel happiness until the day he died nearly two decades later. Such a tragic figure.
A scene that was five years in the making and worth every second.
I'll always think that it was G'Kar's forgiveness that gives Londo the strength at the last moment to go through with what's coming. It gives him hope for his own redemption at the end of the long years of pain and grief that are coming. How fitting that G'Kar is his deliverer at the end as well.
I love the fact that Londo drops so many hints throughout this last conversation about his situation. He can't come right out and say what's wrong, but he knows that he can warn his friend to be suspicious about his actions in the future.
Londo and G'Kar were among the best TV Sci Fi Characters ever.
I was gonna say. Best interpersonal character development in sci-fi. That I know of.
A far cry from the Season 3, Episode 2 when the two were trapped on an elevator, G'Kar happy to die so he can see Molari die too, and then when rescued his disappointment followed by this exchange.
G'Kar: Aghhh!
Molari (laughing): There, you see. I'm going to live.
G'Kar: So it would seem. Well, it is an imperfect universe.
Molari: Bastard.
G'Kar: Monster.
Molari: Fanatic!
G'Kar: Murderer!
Molari: You are INSANE!
G'Kar: And that is why we'll win!
Molari: 'Go be the ambassador to Babylon 5.', they say. 'It will be an easy assignment.' (sighs) I hate my life.
G'Kar: So do I.
Molari: SHUT UP!
One of my favourite scenes.
From the people's thoughts I read on their first watching, the elevator seems to really stand out as a point where people really recognise the acting for what it was.
In the DVD extras it was revealed that the elevator scene was supposed to be more serious and the actors went off script and ad libbed; it was so good that they kept the scene.
That shut up bit also reminds me of when Londo says they won't throw him in jail with G'kar and then they do and he looks at G'kar who says nothing and goes "Shut up....."
@@max_power3386 Yes. Katsulas started to laugh. And he was so good that he was allowed to play the scene as he likes as long as he follow the script :) He made it better than was originally planned - it's what only the great actors can do.
It is with out a doubt in my top 5 list of great writing and character portrayal. Not to mention so down right funny in so serious a situation. Deleen in the last episode sitting watching the Sunrise as Sheridan leans forward , Then she looks over to where he was sitting and the bench is empty is my top moment and brings tears right now thinking about it.
Even when controlled, Londo had the respect for G’Kar to say goodbye and to accept his apology.
That smile Londo gives him... it becomes even more affecting when you realise that this is probably the literal last time Londo ever feels genuine happiness.
Oh. My. Gosh. Why did you do this to me? My heart aches. (But seriously, thank you. Love that observation.)
Agreed, though perhaps he feels it again in his last moments. G'Kar comes again, and gives his life to end Londo's suffering, to give his death some last meaning.
@@dirdib69 This was just the beginning.
when he drinks enough to escape his keeper, perhaps that is a kind of relative happiness ... "oh Gods Vir", ......... I'm sure he could only wish for Vir's wisdom by that stage in time!
I think knowing that beheading Morden and putting his head on a pike for Vir, and how that would make Vir happy, made him happy also.
One Narn forgiving one Centari. That's how it starts. One person at a time, in forgiveness. Human history is rife with bitterness and vengeance. But the chains of hatred and anger can be broken, the cycle of violence, bloodshed, and death, can be ended. In time.
Could.
The right word would be 'could'. It's just a possibility, but a rather unlikely one.
Remember the old Centauri Emperor who wanted to apologize to the Narn and got killed before he could? What followed was extinction level war. Because violence is always the easier answer in the short run. Fear leads to hatred and that path is quicker, easier, more tempting ...
And peoples memories are long, longer than their own life spans even.
I'd prefer not to drift off into real world examples, but I've heard some very hostile things said to me, because my nation was once a colonial power, by people who are from places that were once considered colonies of the my country, well over a lifetime ago. They themselves didnt suffer any indignities, nor was I responsible for said indignities, yet I was subject to blame and hatred regardless, and in my defense, I retaliated, thus, old enmities thought long forgotten, resurface.
It's an full time job, forgiveness and letting go, one the human race most certainly hasnt mastered.
and then Narn bomb the heck of Centauri.
@@toffeecrisp2146 That's how it goes. At what point has enough time passed that people should let go of the past?
.
I wonder that whenever I see people complaining about things from at least century ago as if they happened recently.
How far back is too far for it to not matter? The answer seems to be up to whatever's most convenient for the one who's outraged at the time.
.
Otherwise, they might get a taste of their own medicine with the blame game.
... and so it begins.
Andreas Katsulas was awesome as G'Kar. He brought the character to life so well. R.I.P
Two of the best cast, best written, best developed and best acted roles in cinematic history. When a 3 minute scene can both stab you in the heart and give you hope for the future you know you are seeing something uncommon. For it to be a continuing and constant thing in a multi-season series is extraordinary.
Character development that everything before or since needs to take note of.
@@mattikake9859 Agreed. Nothing I've seen in all fiction compares to their rivalry and arcs.
First time watching B5 I skipped the first season and I didn't know Londo actually knew he was going to die at J'Gar's hands....but my God the emotional impact of that scene at the end when it came to pass killed me at the time he thought he was going to be choking JGar out of hate...by the end...he was basically pleading for a mercy kill oh and also not mentioned was the fact that if Gkar didn't die then and there....he'd be probably killed in some horrific way and slowly by the government
I definitely woukjt recommend skipping the first season. It establishes a lot of important world building and characterization. It also has Babylon Squared and Mind Wars, which are extremely important for later.
@@gilgamesh310 Some major foreshadowing happened during this season even though it started out ruff and kind of crappy I look back and agree you need to watch it to understand some important plot points later on.
"One moment of perfect beauty."
well played sir.....well played.....
@@donhearn2248 Thanks.
This scene always makes me cry. Still do.
"Isn't it strange G'kar, when we first met, I had no power and all the choices I could ever want .... and now I have all the power I could ever want ... and no choices at all .... no choice at all!" ~ poor Londo .. I truly feel sorry for him!
That line kills me. Every time.
Politics, oppression, war, peace, failed negotiations, betrayals, deep friendships, love, heartbreak, art, religion, faith, scientific theories and possibilities....and hatred and forgiveness. Babylon 5 had flaws...but it was PRICELESS.
"was"? It still is when put in comparison with the crap we get served as entertainment these days *glares angrily at Discovery*
@@JCDFlex Absolutely. Discovery is crap. I meant "was" in the past tense in relation to the fact that it is no longer aired on Television. I remember back when Star Trek was something else too. It was amazing. But yeah, crap we got today? I could find B List independent films from the 60s that were better on a smaller budget.
there is a saying that I read somewhere that goes like this, The best masterpieces in art ALL have a flaw, the Master Artist knows were to place the flaw to make the masterpiece what it is. Lesser artist must learn this or fail.
"My shoes are too tight , but it doesnt matter -- i have forgotten how to dance " ...class quote
We all know Mr. Morden is the guy who downvoted this video.
I KNEW they shoulda cut off his hands as well!
Bester also downvoted it by now.
I'd say, more likely, it's Morden, Refa, and that one shadow that got shot standing next to the doorway.
"You've just made a mistake Mollari! Even if my associates are not here, they have allies! They'll make sure the Centauri pays the price for what you just did here today!"
(The Draak)
G'kar may have delivered more powerful and chilling speeches than this, but I don't think he ever made a stronger statement than those four words: "I can forgive you."
TRUTH!
Co-sign!!!
Forgiveness is for the forgiver, not necessarily the forgiven. Living with anger and hate destroys the self. I have people in my life I cannot forgive, I just don't know how. It's like asking me to wiggle my ears. I don't have control over the muscles that could accomplish that.
The hardest thing in the world for g.kar to do was forgive any centarey. Just goes to show how he felt about him.
As I hope Londo in turn forgave him, although we never heard him say so.
"I cannot imagine the day when I will forgive myself."
"Because it will never come. One day others may try to convince you they have forgiven you. That is more about them than you. For them, imparting forgiveness is a blessing."
"How do you go on?"
"It is simple. You will never forgive yourself. Accept it."
AKA Christopher Judge auditioning for Kratos without even knowing it. :)
@@Leon78536 It's a quote from Stargate - The Ark of Truth
That and the "I'm sorry" death-bed scene are two powerful redemption moments for the G'kar-Molari duo
OMFG That still brings a tear to my eyes when he forgives Londo..
Same! B5 at its worst was still miles beyond MOST of TNG's entire first 2-3 seasons, and this was B5 at its best.
Londo Molari is the perfect example of, "Be very careful of what you wish for or seek, you just might get it"
Moments like this are the reason that Babylon 5 isn't just one of the best sci-fi shows of all time, but one of the best TV shows of all time _period!_
This scene STILL makes me tear up!! The music, writing, acting, this show nails it.
I finally forgave people who harmed me deeply, out of selfishness (emotional well-being) . . . I found it set me free very . . . paradoxically the more I forgive the more my well-being improves.
I have found the ability to forgive has been the single best quality I have. Even if it is not at its highest capacity, It has helped me more than whatever limited physical strength, intelligence or professional skill I have. I genuinely feel it is the key part of the reason I feel happy in life and genuinely like almost everyone I interact with.
@@Trisjack20 how timely . . . This morning I woke up feeling the need to pray and meditate on forgiveness to perfect (as best I can . . . day to day) the work of forgiveness in my being. Thanks brother for your encouraging words!!!
@@danielmedina2078 it is kind of you to take the time to reply mate. We can't control others actions but we can take control of our own. Thank you for what you are trying to do to make the world just that little bit nicer! 1 at a time right?
The character development on this show was amazing.
This masterpiece was worth watching in 2020. I'm very impressed.
Watch Star Trek Discovery , it's better
@@rollerbladinggeek5507 Do not.
@@rollerbladinggeek5507nope
Considering these are the last free words spoken by Londo makes this scene heartbreaking. When you look at the history of Londo & G'Kar of the battles, trapped in a lift, making up, falling out. As a fan of B5 this type of storyline hardly exists in other shows today.
It's shocking just bad the writing in TV and movies has become, rife with politics and diversity, hammered in at every opportunity despite the harm it does to the material.
Babylon 5 was superb, only The Expanse comes close today.
@@vinnyganzano1930 And even then. I absolutely love the Expanse, fantastic epic story telling, but the way you related to many of the B5 characters, the Expanse cannot, even though you grow quite fond of the characters, but a heartbreaking scene like this, the combination of both superb writing as well as acting is rare indeed.
G'kar is one of the most brilliant characters in all of sci-fi.
And Londo Mollari is the other one! :)
Andreas Katsulas should have won multiple Emmy's for his role as G'Kar. That scene and "Dead. Dead. Dead." alone were just powerhouse performances.
Among many others. For example the "Narn shall be free speech" is another, the epilogue to "Zha-ha Dum", the epilogue when B5 is being shut down. I could go on for a long time ...
Correction: One of the most brilliant characters in all of fiction.
Would G'Kar have been as good a character without the outstanding performance of Andreas Katsulas? To act and actually express emotions through the make up and prosthetics shows just how skilled an actor he truly was.
Londo's journey was so well constructed. Under it all, he just wanted to help his people, but he ended up doomed by the horrible decisions he made to do that.
And I really think that was what separated the characters in their fates, and yet made them empathize with each other. Both realized that had the die fallen the other way, their positions could've easily been reversed. I do wonder what the story would've been like if Mr. Morden had chosen to help G'Kar instead of Londo.
It's not just Londo's decisions - his stated goal was... ill-judged. He wanted to turn back the clock to a golden age that probably never was, where the Centauri were masters of their own fate rather than having to accommodate their neighbours. In the end, he recognised that pursuing those dreams, while they gave him the personal power he thought he wanted (as one of the most trusted advisors to the mad emperor), came at too high a price.
I always put the turning point of Londo's arc at the bombardment of Narn. That's the moment he sees that it's not just old school ties and whispered conversations in the corridors of power, but that there are real and terrible consequences to his choices. And Peter Jurasik conveyed it all with just his face.
Meanwhile G'Kar started out as almost a cartoon villain - attempting dastardly deeds only to be foiled and storm off in an incoherent rage. He was a guerilla, fighting a war of terror, but seeking not to make his people leaders of the galaxy; just to make them strong enough that they could never be slaves again, and see the Centauri broken so they could never do to another what they did to the Narn.
His turning point is even clearer - that scene in Dust to Dust where he has a religious vision. From that point, his position is no longer "Narn must survive" but rather "we must save who we can, even the Centauri".
The other point of consideration in Morden's choice of who to support would have been that Narn didn't need the Shadows' help - they were already beating the Centauri, and, without Morden's intervention, either Emperor Turhan's apology would have let the conflict fizzle out, or the Narn would have pressed until the Centauri were forced to rouse themselves and fight back, and the two civilisations would have dragged each other down. Morden's support might have let the Narn win and enslave the Centauri in return, but it would have been much harder to send them after other races while there were still people alive who remembered life under the Centauri.
Londo wanted power, greatness, and a lust for nostalgic glory - G'Kar just wanted the Centauri 'Gone'.
Londo is also a tragic character as well
Londo did save his people in the end. He paved the way for Vir to become Emperor and in the novels he drove off the Drakk and brought really prosperity to Centari
Forgiveness can be a powerful thing.
What a scene what a show what a set of actors and carecters we will never see the like of it again fucking amazing
They may have started out as enemies, but they ended as brothers.
My father, rest his soul, never quite grasped which one of then was the "bad guy". And I'm eternally grateful for the series that showed me things are not black and white. And some must be sacrificed if all are to be saved.
The answer is both of them... and neither of them (obviously)
According to legend, before shooting the first episode, JMS took Andreas Katsulas and Peter Jurasik (the actors for G'Kar and Londo, respectively) aside and had them flip a coin to determine who would be "the bad guy"... and then swore them both to secrecy. None of them have ever said who it was... as it should be.
@@JamaicanCastle - I'd say it was Londo. Both had the option of working with the Shadows. Granted, G'Kar had limited vision and ambition compared to Londo...which may be why the Shadows allied with him and not G'Kar, but Londo's motivations were not evil per se. Indeed, it seemed Londo was more horrified at what an alliance with the Shadows entailed once he had committed himself.
Neither was a clear-cut bad guy or good guy. They both thought they were doing what was in their peoples' best interests.
@@dalethelander3781 I fail to see the argument for gkar being the bad guy he never did anything evil
This show was incredibly deep, and the writing was some of the best ever done in any medium.
I was only a kid when I watched B5 the first time around. I was there for the sci-fi pew-pew... scenes like this were lost on me, but I can appreciate it so much more now!
This scene really shows how far G’Kar had come since being ambassador on Babylon 5. Took a lot of gained humility and understanding for him to do that which you see through the 5 seasons. Made this moment even more special. Loved this show
G’kar was one of the best character developments of the entire series.
Thank you fellow fans. Your replies are everything I was thinking of. Thumbs up to you all. So many great moments in this show. This one is right up there with G'kars reply to the young Narn who mocked him when he would not become the ruler. Walking way laughing "What I have endured".
Do you think they will be able to recast these wonderful characters?
@@robertmeaney3238 Can lightning strike twice, multiple times? God I dunno.
I still get chills on the back of my neck watching this such a powerful scene
I think maybe this moment helped give Londo the strength to face the long, bleak road that he knew was ahead of him. Just a quiet moment of hope - hope that he might one day find true forgiveness for this choices. I'm a huge fan of the ensemble cast, and that all the characters are important, but I believe that it is truly more Londo's story than any other single character's.
B5 was a real gem. An epic story with real depth and excellent character development. It had great visuals, but did not use them as a crutch.
St disco is the best gem
Best Sci-Fi show ever.. Londo and G'kar loved them..
Incredible the amount of emotion that Andreas was able to convey under all that makeup and prosthetics especially in that one last look at Londo.
That is one of the saddest parts, right up there with Marcus dying.
Babylon 5 is full of them, but this one always has me in tears.
*Sheridan (recording):* _Finally, I heard what you said when you left. I want you to know .._
_.. I love you Delenn._
_Goodbye._
It is even sadder when you realise that Londo is trying to tell G'Kar about his keeper using cryptic comments but G'Kar fails to pick up on it and responds with, "I understand."
@Alysandir You miss my point. The sadness is not from G'Kar not understanding the truth. The sadness is from Londo fighting desperately to reveal his situation, but failing. Londo the patriot will spend the next 16 years being forced to betray his own people and unable to reveal the reasons for his actions; just one more mad Centauri emperor for the history books. That Londo brought this on himself through his previous actions makes it a true tragedy.
Having G'Kar reach some level of understanding in the final moments of Londo's life is a pale comfort.
When you know what these two characters have been through, this scene just rips your heart out and gives you a little more hope for the real world. Briiant actors...
"when we first met I had no power and all the choices I could ever want; now I have all the power I could ever want and no choices at all - no choice at all"
a sadly over looked line about the nature of climbing the power ladder: by the time you're in a position to change the world, you're no longer allowed to
By the time you can change the world, the world has changed you.
Surely the best written, best performed pairing in all of Sci Fi?
And an excellent bookend to the elevator scene.
The good thing about JMS is that the he writes B5 with the big picture in mind. All plots have multiple threads and they sooner or later come together in a meaningful way. Many scenes and what was said in them makes so much more sense and get a different meaning when you see them again.
*G'Kar:* _I undertand._
*Londo:* _Perhaps .. and perhaps you do not understand as much as you think._
_Pray, that you never do G'kar!_
@State of Aporia It would make me want to blow myself up in a floating monorail tube.
G'Kar and Londo were/are my favorites. Babylon 5 was and still is the best sci fi ever.
THIS is a master class in how you make years of character development, conflict, and evolution pay off. Lots of other shows could and should have learned from this.
Greatest Bromance in the history of Bromances.
OneBigBugga be honest they were an old married couple... that was far better than a more bromance.
Hmm I need to dust off the DVDs and take another trip beyond the rim.
OneBigBugga They were like an old married couple, weren't they!😂😂
@@chaosincarna Dude in the show they were compared to a married couple multiple times. Calm down a little. It's just a bit of fun. The show is allowed to be fun you know.
Thirty years on and this show is still some of the most amazing television ever made.
All of B5 explained in two lines. "When we met I had no power and all the choices. Now I have all the power and no choices" MJS - thank you for holding on to your dream and making this as you envisioned it.
I think Ivanova summed it up perfectly in "Sleeping in Light":
Babylon 5 was the last of the Babylon stations. There would never be another. It changed the future and it changed us. It taught us that we have to create the future or others will do it for us. It showed us that we have to care for one another, because if we don't, who will? And that true strength sometimes comes from the most unlikely places. Mostly, though, I think it gave us hope, that there can always be new beginnings. Even for people like us.
ironic. londo is about to be crowned emperor and yet.........it looks like he walked off to be executed. and the only person who he could really trust at that moment was a man who he originally wanted to see dead.
B5. truly a space opera if there ever was one.
It was as Londo said, "In the beginning, he was a nobody with all the choices to have. Now he was to be Emperor with no choices whatsoever." What's kinda funny is in G'kar's case, he started as a member of the ruling body of Narn with no choices. He was dead set on doing anything he could to undermine the Centauri. Now he is just a regular citizen...with all the choices to be had. We last see G'kar joining Lyta as they board a ship with the freedom to go anywhere.
Londo was about the be crowned, but the price was having a Keeper merge with him and the Drakk control him for the rest of his life. I truly believe in this scene, you can see not only Londo warning G'Kar of understanding to much, eg the Keeper and the Drakk, but also, in the moment of forgiveness from G'Kar, finding the last piece of strength he needed to give up everything, his Freedom and Liberty and happyness to save his people.
In his mind, he WAS about to be executed. Once emperor, he knew his days were numbered and would die by the hand on G'Kar around his throat.
Well said!
it's also rather poetic. these two men, respresentatives of their races, having centuries of hatred and bitterness, started out hating each other. and then they became the best of friends.
and i think it truly meant a lot for g'kar to say those words to him. "i can forgive you". because in the end, i think londo wanted that the most: someone to forgive him for the mistakes he made.
Another in a long list of reasons why Andreas Katsulas
was king of portraying emotion while in full prosthetic makeup.
This is just an example of how amazing this show was.
This is Academy Award level acting. Specifically from Peter Juarasik but also from Andreas, who deserves it for so many other scenes. This is passion level theatre in front of a TV camera. Never seen it this intense, before or since.
It has the quality of a confession prior to execution, and rightly so. G'kar is the most injured party, the one who has suffered the most for Londo's mistakes. Perhaps this moment is what gives Londo the strength to take those last steps to the end of his freedom. In the flashback montage that comes right after this, I think maybe Londo begins to realize that G'kar will in the end be his deliverer - the one who helps Londo finally redeem himself for the past.
The line where he talks about no power and all the choices and then getting all the power and no choices is so true.
"It has occurred to me recently that I have never chosen anything. I was born into a role that was prepared for me. I did everything I was asked to do because it never occurred to me to choose otherwise. And now, at the end of my life, I wonder what might have been." - Centauri Emperor Turhan
In "A view from the gallery" (the one that follows two maintenance workers) Londo and G'kar have a conversation where Londo says he never had a childhood, he always had responsibilities. For me, that scene always clashed with this one. So did he have more options/choices then even though he was saddled with responsibilities when young? Essentially, what he is doing now is fufilling a responsibility to his people: to protect them. I would say his responsibilities just grew exponentially in scale but he never had much control over his life. That's what made him such a real and tragic character; he never had full control, like we don't. Rarely can people go willy-nilly wherever and whenever they want without some consequences to themselves or others around them.
@@tomsko863 I don't think the scenes clash at all. In fact, I'd say it's pretty consistent characterization: self-pity was always one of Londo's greatest flaws, and who is more pitiable than someone with no control over their life or choices. Londo's life was replete with choices before he became Emperor, but he imagined the people and circumstances surrounding him left him with none in order to shunt responsibility for his choices onto those people and circumstances. Once he became Emperor those choices were taken away from him in a way that he couldn't have dreamt of even in the deepest pits of his self-pity, and only then, as he makes one of the last real choices of his life does he appreciate that.
Freedom is having nothing to lose.
Shakespeare in space, what a great show.
St: Picard is wayyyyy better man
Still gives me chills because of the context between these two characters. The evolution of their relationship is one of the many wonderful gems in this show.
what an scene!!! even under the customes and make up this two actors delivered one of the best scenes from ANY sci fi franchise
One of the greatest moments on television of it's time. Gkar is so underrated. For two mortal enemies to make peace in such a genuine way, after literally years of conflict...
The way Londo paused for so long in that last handshake/arm grasp. It's like he was trying to make it so he'd remember G'Kar as his friend, knowing that what was coming might rob him of that, either through action or thought.
One last look at an old friend, and the pain in his eyes as he did so.
The acting! The writing! The music! I'm looking forward to the reboot, but I can't imagine it will be as good as the original.
...And in the back of our minds we know this saga ends with G'Kar having strangle Mollari before the critter wakes up in order to save Sheridan and Delenn's lives, and the critter waking up and using Mollari's body to strangle G'Kar back. It makes this scene even more of a tear-jerker, I think.
@ Deanna Kay
Was that written in a novel somewhere?
@@fenwar9060 In the episodes where the team with Sinclair went back in time to steal Babylon 4, Sheridan got "unstuck in time," which meant he got jumped around time. In one jump, he went to the future, where Lando revealed to Sheridan and Delenn the alien stuck to his body (which falls asleep when he's drunk, as in this scene) and informed them of the control he's been under and begged for them to free his people. After letting them go (for they had been captured and imprisoned), G'kar appears, and Londo said something like, "You know what you need to do," for he would be back under the creature's control when it woke, and it would know what he did. So G'kar began to strangle him, then the creature woke up and stangled G'kar back, fulfilling Lando's cause of death prophecy, that they would choke each other to death.
It’s also in the Centauri trilogy of novels. G’Kar did it to save Sheridan, Delenn and Londo. He was just made away of the keeper and did it to free his friend (Londo had just referred to him as his greatest enemy and greatest friend).
"Isn't it strange G'Kar, when we first met, I had no power and all the choices I could ever want ... and now I have all the power I could ever want, and no choices at all .... no choice at all! ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, "Mollari.... understand ... that I can never forgive your people for what they did to my world .... my people can never forgive your people ... but ..... *I* can forgive ... you!"
That arm-grip at the end was the equivalent of them hugging while crying on each other's shoulders. In fact, until I saw this scene again, that's what I remembered them doing. False memory born of emotional impressions.
I’m not sure G’Kar is right here. If Londo can ask for forgiveness (not in words, but in the subtext) from G’Kar and G’Kar can offer it freely, maybe there’s some hope for the Centauri and the Narn.
seeing these clips really makes me want to watch Babylon 5 again.
I've watched the whole series more than once, same with the equally under rated Farscape.
i`ve learned that forgiveness is one of the most wonderful gifts that one person can give another, which is why this scene brings me to tears every time i watch it. G`kar and londo`s interactions on the show was a big part of why i enjoyed it as much as i did.
Two amazing actors and an incredibly emotion felt scene.
Masterful. The both of them. Such a powerful scene, I choked up a bit watching it again.
Best married couple on tv ever...
It's a wonderful scene between the best characters of Babylon 5
This scene still brings tears to my eyes. Andreas and Peter had unmatched chemistry.
The whole entire Babylon 5 series and its movies were a masterpiece and still is.
Gakar and Londo started as bitter rivals, but ended as the deepest of friends. I do not mean here, i mean years later when they are old men. Londo ask his friend for mercy, and Gakar gives it at the cost of his own life. Freeing Londo from the influence of the Drahk.
one of the most touching moments in that whole show..a show with so many great moments..one of the best shows of all time
The power of forgiveness from someone who has been so wronged is irresistible.
This was such a transient moment, but it changed the story for the life of two enemies forever. It mirrors real life in a way that most tv shows will never touch because it's such an aberration, but possible.
A very powerful scene considering all that went on between these two. They were enemies, allies of convenience and in the end became friends.
Amazing scene, and one of the defining moments between the best two characters of the series. This is like Shakespeare. Hamlet, finally getting power and then consumed by it. Love to B5
I always cry at this scene. Just can't stop.
One of the most powerful moments of this Terrific show and that's saying something.
Easily the best ongoing character arc in the entire series.
Babylon 5 had 3 main themes, the neverending struggle against darkness and tyranny, the weight and responsabilty of power, you must be held accountable for your actions and the need for forgiveness. This 2 characters sum all that up in a masterful way. This is what places B5 apart from all other sci fi.
This scene Is what Babylon 5 was all about. The relationship between G'Kar and Londo, and the changes they went through. IMO This is at the heart of the 5 year arc.
This one actually made me shed a tear or two.
Only Straczynski (because of his past) could have written someting so powerful and Peter and Andreas did a magnificent job delivering the lines.
Why, oh Why is Babylon 5 still Sci-Fi's best kept secret?.
Two wonderfully written and realised characters ...this scene still brings a lump to my throat
A really moving scene and almost made Londo shed a tear. These two guys were my two favourite actors in the series by a long mile!!!
B5 has it all. Philosofy, poetry, scandals, triumphs, wars, peace, conspiracies and collaboration, death camps and peace camps. And the best line of all: We are all Star Stuff. The universe made manifest trying to understand itself.
Have a great day dear friends and peace to all who left us beyond the rim.
Some day the rest of society might just catch up to just how great this show truly is. This show should be required viewing and study material for teens and college students. I watched it in my teen years and the show literally changed my life and entire perspective on things. I would not be the same person I am today without having seen the Babylon 5 series. It's truly changed my life for the better.
i agree, it's quite deep in it's tropes... but in my opinion it doesn't quite go deep enough. if they continued it to the point of the centauri liberating themselves from the drakh, or the minbari seperating their souls from humanity to regain their nobility. or what the narn will innevitably become... also the show was humanist, and humanism has inherent problems aswell that weren't explored. i'll never forget the vorlon line:"the others are an abomination." @_@ that show really started to take off in the end, but it never fully took a nose dive into the philosophical abyss it teased at.
True, some good points and yes the show could have gone even further. I felt it did kind of reach a bit of a climax in season 4. Season 5 was kind of a winding down. At the same time It did open up some paths which were never fully resolved or explored. The problem with Crusade was that the story just didn't seem rich enough compared to what had already been done with B5. That and they didn't use Christopher Frankie for the music anymore which in my opinion took away a lot.
yes the music really set the theme, which is a rarity for tv these days. all that said the politcs of earth throughout the show and by extension psi core and what it became really took things to the proper perspective.
Mr. Extreme, I can say the same. It caused me to look at people and life critically. I am still amazed at people catagorizing things as "good" or "bad". Good for who? You? The Londo/G'kar storylines showed that the lines are not clear, and in my opinion, don't exist at all.
@@thedarkmaster4747 "The minbari seperating their souls from humanity to regain their nobility", who told you that was supposed to happen? The combination was a positive, not something that had to be rectified.
So much of the B5 dialogue is poetic , this series wisely didnt let itself get bogged down by techno-babble gobbledygook like in ST , ( A great set of series themselves) . Sometimes , two weird looking aliens gazing at each other with weary , wounded affection is BETTER than an inverse tachyon pulse and let me tell ya something ; An inverse tachyon pulse can solve a great many things.
The original Star Trek was intended as hard SF - most of the technological marvels were taken for granted - no-one ever stops to explain how the automatic doors work; they just approach a door and it gets out of the way - any more than Dick Tracy explained how his handgun worked.
When TOS indulged in technobabble, it was because someone had come up with some cool bit of (speculative) science and wanted to build (part of) an episode around it - for example, the Devil in the Dark features a silicon-based life-form, and the whole episode is built around the hypothetical biology of such a creature.
From TNG onwards, they had two writing teams. There were the primary script writers, who would write a script, establishing the entire narrative arc of the episode, including any conflicts and their resolutions, except whenever they got out of their depth, they'd just write [tech] in the script and indicate the required properties of the magic needed at that point. Then the second team, the technical consultants, came in and had to fill in the [tech] with something that sounded vaguely plausible and didn't obviously conflict with anything previously established in canon.
B5 is a lot closer to TOS - when it's important for the plot, they explain how the tech works, but they never feel like they're inventing the tech to houdini out of the corner they've written themselves into - and if some bit of technobabble's significant one week, there's a good chance it'll come up again in a later episode, unlike later Star Trek series where, having saved the day once, the innovation is quietly forgotten about and never comes up again.
One of the "rules" people have come up with for the use of magic in fantasy is that the magic can cause whatever problems you need with little or no explanation, but if you're going to solve the problems with magic, then that magic needs to be well understood by the audience - and, by extension, the writer. You can probably see where I'm going with this - technology indistinguishable from magic (such as TNG onward uses) has to follow the same rules - if the audience doesn't feel like they could have anticipated Geordi's explanation of how triggering a Chi-particle cascade through the warp core would create an electric potential around the fringes of the warp bubble, electrocuting anything in contact with it, then you shouldn't be using that to scare off the giant space amoeba. And yes, I know they probably never did quite that during any of the episodes, but that's part of my point - the technobabble is meaningless beyond the individual episode, and does nothing to help you understand. They could just as well get someone to stand in an airlock spraying Bat-Space-Amoeba-Repellent...
ST has many great episodes without Techno babble at all, and only human conflict at its core, or similar. Watch Darmok, Measure of a man, Drumhead etc.
@@rmsgrey Not explaining something doesn't make it hard scifi
@@moproodu True. The explanation or lack of it has more to do with the general realism of the setting - people don't go around explaining how electric lighting works; they just flip a switch and take the illumination for granted (and most people don't actually know the details anyway).
It's only if you have someone a bit geeky who might actually know how things work, and an outsider who might not know what things do that you're likely to get any sort of explanation - and even then, people like me have learned to check whether someone really wants to know before going beyond the "flip switch, light comes on" level of explanation.
On the other hand, mentioning midiclorians doesn't make something hard sci-fi either. What really makes something hard sci-fi is having the details worked out somewhere so you can publish the technical manuals, or plot where the Enterprise should have been able to reach. To be fair, Babylon 5 dropped the ball on galactic scale too - Narn homeworld is established as being almost exactly 10 (Narn) light years from the station. In real life, the star Epsilon Eridani (said to be the location of B5 in the show) is a little over 10 light years away too. Travel time is a couple of days, which would put the galactic rim (a quarter million light years away) a decade or so distant through hyperspace. Meanwhile, the Icarus made it to Z'ha'dum, out on the Rim, in maybe as much as months, and White Stars are shown to get there and back within an episode...
And, of course, written SF has an advantage over TV/movies in that it has both plenty of spare time/page-count to spend laying out the technical details, and access to both a narrator and appendices to allow the working to be shown without needing to have a tourist ask Sheldon Cooper how light switches work...
None of which takes away from my original (poorly expressed) point that the technobabble in Star Trek increased as the scifi got softer.
@@rmsgrey much of the inconsistency in distance may have to do with how they travel: hyperspace rather than folding space principal (Star Trek, Stargate, etc) or instant jumps/wormhole (BSG, Farscape...) which is an entirely separate dimensional plane they travel through (as it has tides and energies are volatile enough that no intelligent species engages in combat while in hyperspace) so it may work like an M.C Esher painting in terms of traveling.
The story arc of these two characters was both magnificent and tragic. There’ll never be anything like B5 ever again. I watched every episode once a week on late night TV here in Australia and stumbled into work the next morning bleary eyed but also frequently amazed by what I had seen…
Someone should show this to anyone who wants to go after a higher position in life.