Not to mention the sbmm updating match by match is the reason we can’t have pre/post game lobbies anymore! Which is the biggest problem in Infinite for me, as a casual player
It was so cool to look at other People Spartans before a Match,a nd now you only see yourself and it really feels so ... lonely? Lonely compared to past games that is.
the overtuned SBMM is the biggest problem I have with halo infinite currently. I want so much to learn this game and become a better player, but as long as there’s a system in place that actually *punishes* players for being better I’ll never have the motivation to try. Making sure new players don’t get stomped and ensuring all players have a good time without having to sweat every single match are NOT mutually exclusive. I don’t believe this false dilemma put forth by 343 and others who defend hard SBMM. It’s absurd.
That's Why I play 2042 since launch, it was shit, but now it's fun; and the best part - every match feels different because there is every level of skill present on the field. You can play casual or hardcore, the game is still fun. Not so much with infinite... I can't play it without sound and listen to music to relax a bit, because otherwise I just get stomped all the freaking time
SBMM sucks but I will say that I only start noticing it after a win streak. The game is still really good and it’s going to take thousands of matches to be at the level where you get punished severely. After a win streak the game will “humble you” as I call it.
@@TheJediev90 Either what you said is outright wrong, or i'm somehow an above average player. I start to see this "humble game" kick in after the FIRST win
Yeah.... I heard the whole point is to keep you playing but I just quit when I see the signs and try again the next day when it does that. Like why not just pair me up with people on the same rank? Like Im fine with having similarly skilled or higher skilled enemy teams but at least pair me with that type of team as well because youre still gonna need reliable allies to do things, i cant go all rambo on my own like its call of duty
@@MaximeGrenier11agree it suck when you on a team and all want to do is drive people around in a warthog in squad battle but you can't because halo expects you to get 15-20 kill and be one of the carries
The game gives you a few wins, then lots of losses so you can get a higher dopamine hit when you finally get a win; It's ment to frustrate you so you'll play longer. It has the opposite effect because there is nothing to grind passed the sweat-fest for.
@@xcfjdyrkdtulkgfilhu Haha, I like the joke; it made me laugh. They should give some type of grind points so you can choose: old weekly rewards, old drops, old promotions, or a single item from store. Each needing different points to earn.
"The goal of Halo 2’s level system is first and foremost to help you find the most enjoyable games possible. Games that are neck and neck, where the only sure way to win is by playing above your abilities, be it through better planning, more focus, improved team communication, whatever. But it’s fun to not be so serious all the time. That’s what custom games are for, or the Training Grounds playlist if you don’t have enough Friends online to form a custom game. But we believe that games that challenge you to rise above your current abilities are the most enjoyable and the most rewarding. Thus the level system is intended as a tool to help you find good games, not something to be abused or obsessed over." - Bungie.
I don't blame you, and if you surpass that point where the game can't find you anyone to match against the will just say "Not enough players in the playlist, try another mode." All the meanwhile you are watching twitch streamers play with their friends and find games against new people instantly in the same playlist. This has plagued the swat playlist for almost 1.5-2 years now.
"The goal of Halo 2’s level system is first and foremost to help you find the most enjoyable games possible. Games that are neck and neck, where the only sure way to win is by playing above your abilities, be it through better planning, more focus, improved team communication, whatever. But it’s fun to not be so serious all the time. That’s what custom games are for, or the Training Grounds playlist if you don’t have enough Friends online to form a custom game. But we believe that games that challenge you to rise above your current abilities are the most enjoyable and the most rewarding. Thus the level system is intended as a tool to help you find good games, not something to be abused or obsessed over." - Bungie.
@@user-oo6hn6ek1d It could. But the problem is people like MintBlitz don't want this kind of SBMM because it's actually "skill" based matchmaking. Halo Infinite doesn't even have Skill Based Matchmaking in any other location outside of CSR 1600+ in Ranked Arena/Slayer due to the Halo Communities dislike of actually playing against and with players of equal skill.
To put into context, Halo Infinite's horrendous 'sbmm' for social doesn't even exist in Social. There is no SBMM in Social as of early 2023, and before 2023 -- it was designed around winrate so people like MintBlitz can farm kills; Now there's no SBMM because the player population is so abysmal in social playlists (I'm not joking) that there's absolutely zero way to have 'skill based matchmaking' and have people find games. Over 85% of players only touch Ranked Arena & Ranked Slayer. But that's not a coincidence as to why; Halo 2 and Halo 3 only had ranked playlists and it's predominantly the younger kids (24 and under) who are playing in Social, while the adult Halo fan's typically are playing traditional level-based Halo.
I have lost 9 out of the last ten matches, and that one win I had to fight for my life in. By 343's own SBMM logic I shouldn't be losing this often, but when I'm constantly going up against the same four Diamond and Onyx level players that have iron grips on power weapons and vehicles and my team is made up of Bronze and Silver players it just seems like the game has it out for me. This is the worst time I've had in a multiplayer game, and I used to grind Crucible in Destiny 2!
Yeah about three days ago, I lost like 9 matches in a row on Prism/Forbidden 24/7 before I started winning again. My teammates were complete newbs and I still put up an average of 18 kills a game. But we STILL lost. 👎
I bet I could guess a few of the tags of those same four diamond and onyx guys, too. I think there's a hole in the logic of SBMM, and a few people have figured out how to exploit it by sandbagging sometimes so they get matches they can stomp for 50+ kills worth of career XP the other times.
Lol I too used to be a crucible nut but finally started to feel a similar way about D2 having it out for me. Honestly ever since season of the haunted its gotten worse and worse. This game feels better but not by a lot
dude I would straight up lose every match for a whole 6 hour play time almost every day for the first few weeks of launch on this game because id get the challenge to win 5 matches. when id complain about it to 343 in the ticket system they told me to fuck off to the forums and when i complained about it in the forums the community told me i was crazy and exaggerating when i wasnt. the games are rigged so whats the point. its so bad the individual gunfights are rigged and horrendously unfun. This game gaslights you so bad i had mood problems for the rest of the day if i played it for even an hour and i dont usually get so worked up in games. i used to play crucible in destiny 1 and battlefront EA when autolocking bullets were meta and those games were more fun than this. This game is easily the worst game i have ever played because of the sbmm and other systems like the challenge system rigging your matches. This game was so bad it punted me out of the mood to even play MCC until recently. If they never fix SBMM im hoping firefight is atleast fun.
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
baffling how they don't just use the matchmaker that has been present in halo from 2 all the way to 4. nobody complained about it. its insane how this studio finds every little way they can to ruin halo for no reason.
I think completely pandering to the competitive community has just about ruined halo. I miss all the weapons we had before and I liked that there were unsc weapons and covenant equivalents. It felt like each faction was fleshed out and had armories that could adapt to any situation. Now in the campaign the banished use human weapons half the time, and weapons that have been around forever are gone.
This exactly. SBMM existed way back when but it was never a problematic mechanic until esports took off and games started trying to force the "sweat your ass off because there is half a million dollars on the line" experience on literally everyone. Nobody had a problem with Halo 2 and 3's SBMM, and surprise surprise, those games weren't literally designed from the ground up to stoke Pro level players sensitive egos and provide them with a game that only THEY can play well.
Pandering to the competitive community ruins any game. Trying to please sweaty tryhards (me included) will ruin a game's future that almost always certainly contains a majority of players who are there to have a good time or to just learn the game.
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
This isn't a halo problem. All multiplayer games nowadays use this super strict sbmm. It won't change because it has become the industry standard. It feels worse in halo than other games because halo was always more of a social game experience.
"The goal of Halo 2’s level system is first and foremost to help you find the most enjoyable games possible. Games that are neck and neck, where the only sure way to win is by playing above your abilities, be it through better planning, more focus, improved team communication, whatever. But it’s fun to not be so serious all the time. That’s what custom games are for, or the Training Grounds playlist if you don’t have enough Friends online to form a custom game. But we believe that games that challenge you to rise above your current abilities are the most enjoyable and the most rewarding. Thus the level system is intended as a tool to help you find good games, not something to be abused or obsessed over." - Bungie. Halo created Skill based matchmaking. MintBlitz just hates it because if it's actually doing it's job, he'd be considered less than average at best.
@@anonymous7564It's not necessarily the issue of SBMM itself; it's the issue of how strict it's become in modern games. Even games like BO2 had SBMM. Reach, Halo 3, MW2, Black Ops, etc.; pretty much every game back then had it, but it wasn't as strict to this degree. For example, did you know that Call of Duty titles prioritize the skill level even over the ping? This is not how the system used to work. It would prioritize ping over skill first. And that is the issue. The game will purposefully throw you into a lobby where you will have a laggy connection because it is prioritizing your skill level over everything else. Someone in another thread said this and it actually makes perfect sense; the reason we don't have post-game lobbies anymore is a direct result of the SBMM being changed on the fly after every match. It's not going to party you up with the same people who you just stomped, because they're going to be carted off to a lobby where they can get a win, while you'll be sent to the sweatiest match imaginable until you finally lose. Even with SBMM in Halo 2 and beyond, there was still a post-game lobby because the SBMM wasn't as strict. You're getting a little confused about the issues with modern SBMM, but hopefully you read this message and can understand the nuances of it. There's plenty of insightful videos out there regarding CoD's toxic SBMM you should watch if you want to learn more; I imagine that Halo Infinite adopts similar systems to CoD, but perhaps not as strict.
I recently had a game to where I was 26 - 3 in kills to deaths meanwhile my teammates averaged to 5 - 15, sometimes you just get games that are too low for your sbmm. And then the game after that I get curb stomped by onyx level players decked out in that infamous master chief armor kit and Halo esports armor effect sweating his balls off
And sometimes you get a dominant game, as Mint said, simply because of the spawns on the map, not your skills. e.g. I'm a mid player overall ... just a gold CSR in the little bit of ranked I've even played, with a pretty close to neutral career k/d. But I spent most of yesterday evening's gaming getting punished because I dropped a 36-1 the night before ... off of simply lucking into grabbing back to back scorpion spawns in Oasis against a team that just kept trying to rush them head on. That's a lucky game, not a skillful one - why is it affecting most of the next two hours I play?
Dude I went 50-20 on Husky Raid and for the last 3 days I only spawn with the plasma pistol and pulse carbine. I swear SBMM also affects Fiesta weapon spawns.
Every time I try to get my friends into anything. The first question they ask me is about the matchmaking. If there is strict SBMM, they don't even consider playing. They've been so hyped for XDefiant because of the reason that it doesn't have SBMM. It doesn't belong in almost any game, especially in non-ranked matches. Splatoon 3 also handles this system pretty well by letting variety be a thing while protecting "bad" players. SBMM is the true essence of a vibe killer.
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
I think this might be the hardest thing to get change on, because I imagine investors are happy with what they were sold on. This “engagement-based matchmaking.” It sounds like something that the people who pay 343i but don’t play video games would want to keep the numbers up. However, I also think it’s reached a breaking point. MWIII is getting raked over the coals for the strictest sbmm ever, and here is the halo tuber with arguably the most influence among 343i talking about it. I hope we can beat the corpo suits and ties and make games fun again.
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
@@kozeyone6232 I dunno if Bill Gates is directly responsible, but does reflect on the whole "Microsoft Gaming" brand as a whole. Games made by corpos just aren't that fun, and people are finally realizing.
@@samm.8052 bill gates surely hired like minded individuals to do his bidding and expelled anyone with a conscience like with the vaccine, ask yourself, would a good guy do that? or try to take the fun out of games?
I don't play nearly as long of a session in Infinite as I did in other Halos because the game so obviously creates an outcome based on my last game. Just knowing I don't have a chance to win 2 games in a row makes me not want to play. But I really love the gameplay so I keep coming back despite this.
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
"The goal of Halo 2’s level system is first and foremost to help you find the most enjoyable games possible. Games that are neck and neck, where the only sure way to win is by playing above your abilities, be it through better planning, more focus, improved team communication, whatever. But it’s fun to not be so serious all the time. That’s what custom games are for, or the Training Grounds playlist if you don’t have enough Friends online to form a custom game. But we believe that games that challenge you to rise above your current abilities are the most enjoyable and the most rewarding. Thus the level system is intended as a tool to help you find good games, not something to be abused or obsessed over." - Bungie. The community members crying and walk away because they never wanted Halo from the start. They would have hated Halo 2 and Halo 3 back in the day, just like why MintBlitz get's 400 sprees on brand new players, it's entirely a facetious to think that the reason they walked away was due to "skill" based matchmaking in playlists that don't even have MMR affecting their matching. (Social doesn't utilize MMR, only ranked arena & ranked slayer do till below 1600; Above 1600 is CSR-Based Matchmaking).
@@anonymous7564 "(Social doesn't utilize MMR, only ranked arena & ranked slayer do till below 1600; Above 1600 is CSR-Based Matchmaking)." That's a literal fucking lie. I ONLY play social modes and I get victimized by the Match making nonstop. I can be the worst player on a winning team and BAM three four matches of getting stomped into the fucking dust. After about six losses straight though I get paired up against people that are borderline comatose for the easy pity win. Out of here with this "it's only ranked" nonsense.
I'm convinced the fiesta weapon spawns are righed too. I spawn with the plasma pistol as a primary up to 4 times in a row most matches. Statistically its impossible for that to happen if the spawns are random
I play husky raid abit and constantly go against teams that constantly get hammers, swords with grapple or cindershot and rockets where we get sensos and shrouds and pistols and the br or Ar
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
@JD-wu5pf it's literally just math. You could reverse boost if you don't care about rank and it is the most optimal. But if you care about rank then matches that sbmm puts in your favor you can always throw your life away a bunch before you win. That'll prevent your hidden mmr from raising too much. Its just math
Yeah it is an issue i am average player, and it varies like crazy, i feel bad for the players i play against that absolutely slams 30 kills 3 deaths but the rest of the team has like 1-4 so they lose, but then i have a decent game 15 kills 2 deaths suddenly i get in a lobby of john wicks. Its all over the place
I hate sbmm. Almost every social match I play feels like a sweatfest. I really wish 343 could make it so that social games have it turned off or at least turned down.
That's how it's supposed to be for the social playlist and the sbmm only makes sense in Ranked where your skills are tested. Idk how the Devs don't see that. Or they do and don't care. All they care for is the money they make from the shop. It's the exact same problem CoD is having as well.
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
I thought I was the only one. I can play very well (15-3) or average (12-11) for 5 matches, but then, I start questioning my abilities because I get absolutely demolished (talking about 2-15 or worse.)
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
I'm glad you made this video, I was literally thinking about SBMM last night. In my squad battle games it was smash or get smashed, every game back and forth with no in between. And on the games where we were smashed, I was doing like 12 and 7 and my second place player was around 4 and 11. I just sucks, so I hope if the community really makes a big stink 343 may start talking about it.
we should have a menu like MCC where if you want to play slayer big team heavies you choose it and if you wanna play objectives then you choose that playlist.. sometimes is annoying playing objectives (Total control, CTF) 3-5 times in a row
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
Modern gaming does not use SBMM (skill based matchmaking); Modern Gaming uses EOMM (Engagement Optimized MatchMaking) designed to force wins and losses to create frustration to continue playing the game more. It is used a a player retention tool instead of using fun as a player retention tool.
A little correction of this: Halo Infinite's was designed to mirror something akin to Fall Guys and Destiny 2, and was originally modified post Joshua Menke's departure in 2021. This also broke the "CSR" progression and matching, as it's original design was closer to a Halo 5 mixed with Halo 3. The "move to adjust this" was a Forerunner push, not an internal developer push, and was a higher up decision by a specific individual who departed form layoffs (officially, unofficially "left on his own accord") in January of this year. For clarity: Ranked almost never launched with Halo Infinite because the Halo Community deemed Halo as "a social party game" during the Forerunner testing and liaison's, with one specific individual in this program claiming that "competitive was a niche" (It's never, never was). Although this is mostly correct, "Social" doesn't use any SBMM (at all) and only Ranked CSR Onyx 1600+ uses a form of SBMM, whilst the rest uses a sort of EOMM method adjusted from TrueSkill2, with "ranked" (today) being one that, below Onyx 1600, matches based on EOMM but can only pool on players within a specified CSR range of the player searching. This is also why an Onyx 1600 can only match with people within a certain field of 'CSR' as them. Because, just like Halo 2 and Halo 3, was skill based entirely.
Easiest fix: Only specifically ranked modes should take skill into account. All other lobbies should just throw whoever in together. Yes, sometimes that will mean there are utter stomps in casuals. Having been on both ends of that, it doesn't happen every match, and if a person can't handle it then they aren't going to be playing online much anyway.
I like this fix. Let's also add one thing I've been posting here too: "The goal of Halo 2’s level system is first and foremost to help you find the most enjoyable games possible. Games that are neck and neck, where the only sure way to win is by playing above your abilities, be it through better planning, more focus, improved team communication, whatever. But it’s fun to not be so serious all the time. That’s what custom games are for, or the Training Grounds playlist if you don’t have enough Friends online to form a custom game. But we believe that games that challenge you to rise above your current abilities are the most enjoyable and the most rewarding. Thus the level system is intended as a tool to help you find good games, not something to be abused or obsessed over." - Bungie. 2004 - 2010. A resolution truly is something akin to: - Add 12+ ranked playlists (Like Halo 2 & Halo 3), consolidate social playlists to 4 - 5 (Like Halo 2 & Halo 3). "Ranked" must have all the same precision weapon starts, radar off. No exceptions. - Ranked needs to remove "MMR" entirely, CSR matchmaking, period, with no placement matches. - Social must have no SBMM period, and then when people cry that "SBMM is too strict", there needs to be an actual red text that says "No SBMM is applied here" so they understand that sbmm is actually not hurting their experience (It's hurting their ego, not their gameplay). - Expand the "Onyx" rank to a Champion-style rank like seen within Halo 5. And that would actually resolve a lot of issues across the board with Halo Infinite. The issue, however, is the Halo Community doesn't want to resolve issues with Halo Infinite. They want to resolve issues with their insecurity of playing video games such that they are capable of being rewarded for putting "thousand of hours in" without directly being told "You're average, to less than average, at this video game."
Biggest issue with the current sbmm system is that it is so strict it actively prioritizes matching you according to your skill level over having a good connection.
Strict? There's no strict anything; Social doesn't even use TrueSkill2 as of earlier this year. Ranked below 1600 utilizes MMR, which is based on winrate rather than skill. Here's a quote from Bungie I'm sharing intentionally so people stop believing this nonsense: "The goal of Halo 2’s level system is first and foremost to help you find the most enjoyable games possible. Games that are neck and neck, where the only sure way to win is by playing above your abilities, be it through better planning, more focus, improved team communication, whatever. But it’s fun to not be so serious all the time. That’s what custom games are for, or the Training Grounds playlist if you don’t have enough Friends online to form a custom game. But we believe that games that challenge you to rise above your current abilities are the most enjoyable and the most rewarding. Thus the level system is intended as a tool to help you find good games, not something to be abused or obsessed over."
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
We need to start something where we all mail in letters to the office to get them to stop the strict sbmm and overload their office with these petitions just like people sent them way too much pizza when MCC was made available on pc
Thank you for bringing attention to this issue! This is precisely why I can't fully enjoy this game. If my friends want to play with me, they *have* to go up against people absolutely shitting on them, and I have to carry the team. Pretty much everyone gets sick of this within 30 minutes and many don't return.
I haven't played Infinite in over a year thanks to this. Makes the game completely unfun when the matchmaking is actively forcing you to lose half of your games making everything a sweat fest if you want to win even in so called "social" unranked playlists.
Same. I love Halo but, this just completely ruins the game for casuals. I'm not trying to sweat every damn game. Winning 2-3 matches in a row is a death sentence. Your guaranteed an L if you can't completely clutch the match single handedly because your teams going to be trash while your enemies are going to be sweaties. It's not fun.
Same, so many games use this dumb tactic, the baffling part many companies say the data support this as the ideal approach. My closest friends (we game together since Halo CE) refuse to touch infinite, they were so disappointed by s5 not solving sbmm or netcode they just gave it a pass until firefight returns. Not to mention that when they realized we would not be able to q together they didn't want to believe it to be true .
Man, it is sad how true this is. I just reinstalled Infinite a few days after not playing since multiplayer launch, where I only stayed around for 1-2 weeks after release. I will get top score in 1-2 matches, then on the third I just get STOMPED by people who have well over 1000 matches played. It makes me feel like I have to constantly sweat which I dislike. Hopefully it gets toned down at some point. @@GAB-vq7re I'd love to play with my older brother but he's just going to have a terrible time :( due to this SBMM nonsense.
I still say desync is a worse problem. It keeps getting worse too. Desync in season 5 is the worst it's ever been. It's ridiculous that I live in Oregon, have a sub 30ms ping, gig speed internet and still deal with obvious Desync in as much as HALF of my games.
can we talk about how the ranked system team balances on mmr, I feel like this shouldn't be the case, you either are able to play as well as anybody in your ranked range, or you shouldn't be in that rank range to begin with, I hate that good players that deserve to rank up are matched with worse players of the same rank, it just makes it harder to progress
I’ve never been more infuriated about a video games matchmaking in my life. I’m constantly slamming my controller against my table, screaming at the top of my lungs at the game, and just letting out all of my rage and having so many unfair games so unbearably consistently that at times, I’ve just considered leaving this game entirely. How does a AAA game studio feel good about implementing this garbage system into the game? The matchmaking in this game is just so incomprehensibly stupid and it’s pissing me off. I can do good in just a few games one time and then I have back to back consecutive terrible games for weeks.
I think sbmm is ok to an extent. 343 definitely needs to relax it quite a bit especially with squad battle. I tried playing squad battle a few times when it was first added and haven’t played since because it just wasn’t fun for me.
I swear I’ll get teammates who legitimately don’t know how to play. They’ll wonder around aimlessly, completely ignoring objectives and enemies. I can’t even be mad at them because I’m pretty sure it’s someone’s 5yo kid. It’s like me and maybe another person against the entire enemy team almost every match
I've been getting stuck playing matches in Heavies where my entire team will never get in a vehicle but the opposite team has managed to steal my team's Wraith, get the Scorpion and the Wasp, and have snipers in every corner of the map. Had one match of Total Control where we lost in less than 5 minutes because no one ever bothered to capture a zone; exit the game after that and decided to play something else.
To put a positive spin on things, so much outcry about these kind of systems goes to show how much better the raw gameplay content of the game is now, so people can turn their attention to these things
Your point 2 makes no sense. Halo expects you to utilise the equipment and items on the battlefield to your advantage, having different weapons and placements helps the player in thinking smarter about how they will play and encourages map control. It also discourages camping, the game wants you out and about, not hiding in a corner camping and sniping everyone, that’s just not fun for other players and the issue gets worse if the weapon placement is the same. It’ll make players dislike the map and avoid it. The game also provides you with many other power weapons to do good with, the sniper isn’t the only weapon that’ll give you an advantage. If you want to just play with snipers, that’s fine, it’s called team snipers. If you want to destroy your enemies, that’s also fine, that’s called playing with bots.
Still way better than Overwatch. I feel like I win the vast majority of my matches in more kill-based modes as long as I'm consistently going +10 to +20 elims higher than anybody else in the lobby, whereas when I do the same in Overwatch I still lose around 45% of my matches due to some garbage teammate who isn't properly fulfilling their role. Capture The Flag and Oddball are rough though with nobody playing the objective to take advantage of all your kills, and social modes should be more casual. Besides that though Halo matches are almost always fun, whereas Overwatch ones are almost always stressful.
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
Thank you for covering this... The ranked matchmaking feels really hard to win. Couple that with players dropping after the first point lost or getting kicked from the server, and they're impossible. Its just not fun, especially this season.
I've been playing since CE but am primarily a campaign guy. Each game over the years, my K/D has been like 1.05. I am just naturally volatile, sometimes going 25-10, sometimes going 10-25. So I am usually pretty oblivious to SBMM 😅
Having bad teammates comes and goes when the system is more sporadic, that is fine but not every single game. Social matches are there to bring the community together, play with your friends, play with your viewers, etc. The current SBMM does not really accommodate to the current player base for Halo Infinite, it needs to be weaker. For a mode where you are not playing for a rank or for any gains whatsoever, it sure does feel like it. I would love to play swat with my friends, and that goes with all the viewers I have when I stream or even when I just encounter random people. It sucks I have to shoot everyone down because I know I can't play with friends in a few social game modes. Some of the closest people I know online has been me randomly matching them and then partying up together, the fact I can't do this is social swat goes to show why some modes have issues with the community trying to connect to each other. Another big thing is queue times. The game tries to hand pick people one by one to which will result in a long queue time if you are good or if you reside outside North America. Being good outside of America is just a double whammy of long queue times resulting in people straight up not being able to play the game. In the middle of February 2021, 343 pushed an update that prioritized connection more than anything, this was when people were connecting to EU server while from NA and so on. This update had connection override SBMM, and for the one and only day on Halo Infinite, people of all skill, people at any time, people of any party size were able to queue in any playlist they wanted and found games within a minute. I know because I was one of those people. Sadly, this update broke ranked and was reverted back the next day, but this update goes to show that the reason why people sit in queues for a long time, can't find matches, or can't play with friends is clearly due to SBMM. I would love to see Mint do a deep dive into SBMM as I am honestly doing the same thing. I do think SBMM should exist but not to the current extent. A looser, more random system would be more beneficial for all of the community such as your content creators, sweats, casuals, and even players that are just getting into gaming today. I really want this game to thrive as I think it has potential, it just needs tweaks. I also fail to understand why some modes are getting SBMM changed to making it more strict or making it less strict, it's social, don't change things where it prevents people from playing the game with friends or making it into a social ranked mode with no ranked rewards.
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
Whatever bungie did, prime time halo 3 big team. I know all the dlcs were out, at least sandbox. It was so social and fun and great for a Friday night. Infinite does feel like another job
I caught myself getting pissed off during a game even tho my team was winning and I was ontop of the board I was sweating so hard just to compete I wasn’t having fun
Personally, I can deal with hard lobbies. What I can’t deal with is a terrible map selection, like the one squad battle has rn. Absolutely awful, one one good map, and it’s like CTF is the only mode sometimes.
Squad Battle getting its SBMM increased would explain why I’ve been getting ass blasted and subsequently pissed off the last few times I’ve been playing that mode.
The content of Infinite seems to be in a good place now, but there's a lot of other stuff that still pulls me away from the game. SBMM is definitely too strict and I'm glad it was touched upon, the menus still lag when moving around, rubberbanding/shots feeling inconsistent in games, and imo the maps feel too big, and sound design may be crunchy but doesn't feel like it has the same impact as older games. Idk, just don't feel like I have that drive to play the game as much.
Its gotten even way worse for me this season. I know I'm able to compete at a Diamond level but right now I'm stuck in Plat 2-3 in ranked because it only matches me up with plat5-diamond4s. I'm able to win some of those matches and keep my position but it feels like the game is ACTIVELY puting up a wall and not letting me progress through the ranks. Like its forcing a 50/50 winrate by upscaling my opponents. Social also feels just as sweaty as ranked, but with even worse teamates.
SBMM should be dailed down in social to be non existent. Ranked should have SBMM but not off hidden MMR. Ranked should be based off your current Rank like in the past
Picked the game up after a year break and already quit after 3 days due to SBMM. Its just not fun knowing that your about to have a 5 game losing streak just because you had 1 or 2 good games. I miss the days when games had a more subtle system.
is anybody else bugged by the fact that fiesta isn’t actually fiesta? there’s a lot of preset weapon combos that you randomly get, instead of randomly getting two weapons
ive had that happen a lot. same weapon combos over and over. it may not be presets but it may be the way weapons are weighted for getting them. and that there is no rule keeping us from getting 2 highly weighted guns. (Which is bs tbh) i honestly have a theory its tied to sbmm as well. when my buddies and i play. we get nothing. we get pulse carbines and commandos. while the entire enemy team gets hammers, swords, rockets and snipers over and over. its so stupid
"Ranked" as a concept is completely meaningless when all games are heavily weighted towards skill anyway. All social gametypes should be relatively loose. I can't even play with my best friend without a full fireteam. If it's just the two of us, he can't get any kills since the parties are so heavily weighted towards me. It's so frustrating and ruins what could otherwise be a great party game. Leave competitive matchmaking to ranked playlists for people that are consciously opting in to that experience!
"The goal of Halo 2’s level system is first and foremost to help you find the most enjoyable games possible. Games that are neck and neck, where the only sure way to win is by playing above your abilities, be it through better planning, more focus, improved team communication, whatever. But it’s fun to not be so serious all the time. That’s what custom games are for, or the Training Grounds playlist if you don’t have enough Friends online to form a custom game. But we believe that games that challenge you to rise above your current abilities are the most enjoyable and the most rewarding. Thus the level system is intended as a tool to help you find good games, not something to be abused or obsessed over." - Bungie. Agreed. Simply making it highly competitive and putting only 3 or 4 playlists to unranked/social would entirely fix the problem. The problem, however, is that the people advocating for "fixing the problem" also don't want to fix the problem because they benefit severely from a broken matchmaking system.
The sbmm in this game is so bad, I can't play more than 3 games before getting off. The matches feel fake and completely rigged. Its a constant situation I have where I'm doing the most on the team but my teammates are just awful. Its not their fault though, the game expected me to do everything and carry the game for them cause I did really well the match before. That isn't fair for me or my teammates.
Yeah skill based matchmaking has completely ruined my experience with season 5. I've been playing a lot since season 5 launched and I've only ever been paired up with incredibly sweaty people. I am not very good and I don't take the game very seriously so to get curb stomped 20 matches in a row just really sucks. Especially since the few matches I did win was because my teammates carried me which made me feel bad cause I felt like dead weight. This all changed when I started playing with my friend. For the first time not only was I performing well going 20/2 but I was having a lot of fun with the multiplayer. But that was also short lived cause later I felt like I was a part of the problem ruining the game for other people. The friend I was playing with was very new to the game and incredibly inexperienced and so were probably the people on the other team and I could have ruined several peoples experience with the game. I just wish it could go back to the way it was at the start of season 4. The games felt well balanced and the matches were always neck and neck. Well hopefully if I play long enough the system will realize I don't belong in that skill bracket and knock me down a few pegs and I can start having fun again.
You said yourself you're not very good. I couldn't imagine why your getting stomped? If you were the one winning would the other people be posting this same comment?
@@NinjaDilly Granted when you're the one getting stomped it's much more noticable but as I said at the end of my comment I don't want to be getting stomped or be the one stomping. Both times it feels shitty. I'd like to just have fair matches. Now that's of course not always possible and I understand that. Sometimes you're just going to face players that are better but I'd just like it so that the difference wasn't so drastic. I'm completely ok getting a negative KD at the end of a match or losing the match it's what happens quite often (again I'm not that good) but it starts being a problem when I start getting 2 to 4 kills per game with over 10 deaths and I didn't have this problem in earlier seasons.
I’ve just lost five games in a row in the featured playlist because every time a teammate either goes AFK or leaves and is replaced by a useless bot. Every. Single. Time.
I've noticed that I most times get matches with low bronze teammates, (I'm platinum) and the enemy are usually all gold or even higher than me. I know rank doesn't equal skill or anything but just an observation after playing hundreds of games.
Thaaaaank you mint!!!! I've been dealing with this in ranked since launch. I play CONSISTENTLY better every match and the game CONTINUALLY makes every subsequent match HARDER by giving me even WORSE teammates. My stats are ridiculous but so are all my losses. Unless you roll with a fireteam, good play results in punishment.
I had a game where the matchmaking expected me to go slightly negative in kd. And it was bang on with its prediction. Issue is: I was on top of my team's leaderboard and i performed as it expected. The enemy team completed trashed us. That basically concludes that the matchmaker literally put me in an unwinnable match where we were supposed to be trashed. Normally i wouldn't have an issue with this, but that is what sbmm is supposed to stop. I only had a few hours into halo infinite multiplayer at that point and just quit.
There’s a lot of things, but THIS is the reason why I quit playing. I don’t want 343 deciding whether I win a game or not. Also, getting BANNED for not getting a kill is CRAZY 💀💀💀
Great video and definitely needed. To go along with this I also think there needs to be more discussion around fixing Ranked playlists to not penalize you when a player drops. I thought they had fixed this but I was in several games last night (like a 2v4 capture the flag) where I decided to leave. It seems it is penalizing 5 points even though someone else already dropped. When you get into these unwinnable matches and someone rage quits then you should be able to back out without being penalized.
I am no pro at all but I do consider that I am fairly good at the game. Good to know that I am no the only one losing games so frequently. In season 3 and 4 I used to win way more games than in season 5 and it pisses me so much that it doesn't really matter if I end un being the best in the match most of the times I end up losing. I am getting teammates that do not really know how to play and it is awful. I will stay away from multiplayer for the time being and hope that firefight KOTH is more enjoyable.
after the first video you made on this topic, ive slowly noticed this also happens in Overwatch 2. some matches my team stomps, the next multiple we get stomped. very few matches are even semi even in skill
Sbmm in social gamemodes never made sense to me since cod started it years ago, shouldn’t be in casual gamemodes so everyone can just have fun constantly, and if they don’t, then they can leave and find a different match rather than leaving and finding the same match because your “skill” is still high up
I redownload Infinite when season 5 first came and played it for the first time in idk, 6+ months. First match on I ended up being the best player in the lobby, and I literally thought to myself "Oh boy, how badly am I going to be punished by having a single good game". Second match was closer, third was a match of slayer we won by 5 kills, and the fourth match I quit out of because we were getting our assholes turned inside out by the other team. It really is THAT quick and aggressive. Halo's gameplay is deep enough and has a high enough learning curve and skill ceiling that you can still have fun without doing super well (unlike other games with severe and predatory SBMM like CoD), but still, it's not fun feeling like I'm being punished for having a couple good matches every once in a blue moon. Put that shit in ranked and keep it out of pubs.
yeah as everyone else says, this is literally the main component of people not playing more. Even the featured playlist I refuse to join because its always the absolute most insane matches you can connect to and I just wanted to see the new maps lol
Completely agree with your analysis in this video! This is really important and I can say first hand it has made some of my friends and even myself at times avoid multiplayer matches like the plague! It’s almost impossible for me to get a group of my friends together nowadays to play halo multiplayer matches. They only want to play custom games! Which btw, custom games are a ton of fun rn, but it shouldn’t feel like a daunting task to play multiplayer. Very important video and great analysis!
So I believe in a system I'm calling experience based matchmaking. So in EBMM two major criteria would be looked at when grouping players together playtime and in game level. So the grouping tolerances would have to be set by the developer to ensure the system works properly. Essentially as long as people are close in ingame level and playtime , they'll be matched together. Make it so that if you perform better you level up faster taking your individual consistency in mind. Additionally smurf accounts would out level players fast and devs can set it so that early hour lobbies have stricter level similarity requirements for matchmaking to keep smurfs out of their lobbies for the most part, there is no perfect system when it comes to smurfing though. For playing with friends it should be simplified; Strict level requirements for ranked with playtime disregarded and then casual should just be an equivalency thing where as long as both teams have the same party stackage, so both having 2, 3, or 4 stacks, that's the only requirement. Partied matches might end up as chaos but at least everyone in a party has a chance to have fun instead of it just not being allowed. In regards to the flaws with SBMM I have a video with that and more details that I'd like to get your opinion on Mint. Let me know if you're not cool with me bringing that up in a comment though, I only mentioned it toward the end of the comment because I didn't want to seem like I was plugging but I will totally edit it out or remove the comment if that's the vibe you're getting.
I'm just tired of getting challenges to win games, then getting matched against Optic in the off season and getting teammates who seemingly play with their feet
I've pretty much walked away from Halo for this reason. Solo queuing in Arena is the most painful experience ever. Since the start of the new season, I was placed D3, and it has been the most painful grind to Onyx I've ever experienced. Not only am I getting matched with solo's on my team against 4 stacks, the teammates I'm getting have no mics and are almost always incompetent to the point where I wonder how they're actually in the same skill group. The game's ranked experience leaves so much to be desired. It's not fun, it's not rewarding and it places you into unwinnable games almost always. I'll be taking a break from Halo until they address this issue. Oh - and extraction is the worst, most broken game type I've ever played.
The solution to this is for 343 to remove placement matches and make all of ranked CSR Based (Or true Skill Based Matchmaking with strict guidelines to who you can play with). And then just like Halo 2 and Halo 3, Halo will be more about "Grinding for skill rank" than it will be for anything else. Extraction is horrible in it's current state; it was adjusted to be "less competitive" and I truly think a large push against competition in Halo had negatively impacted this game post it's launch. This video was regards to social, which is the funniest part, since social has no matchmaking parameters to find players, only when balancing...and that's also public knowledge. The ranked experience could be significantly improved upon, and should be the focus by 343 industries, not "social". The problem, however, is that 343 will not focus on this until the Halo Community is either ignored by 343 entirely, or fulfilled to where they no longer have a complaint (But that'll never happen, it's always a goal post shift for them). But like I mentioned: A resolution is to really add upward of 10 separate ranked playlists with the same settings as the current HCS season (when applicable), with adjusted precision starting weapon (Alternate between BR & Bandit Evo in non-arena playlists) to provide unique variety. And then remove all "MMR" from Ranked, make it all CSR-driven and progressive. Utilize the MMR in TrueSkill 2 to adjust "social" back to launch state, where it was balanced and had no issues with team imbalance. And consolidate most "social" playlists into a few selected playlists. And presto. Halo Infinite has returned to hundreds of thousands of concurrent players, with only those "looking not to sweat" in social, with those "looking to sweat" in the numerous ranked offerings. With ranked being a more linear progressive skill oriented matching, which has an affiliated progression solution attached. And in addition, "social" has that alternative "hero" grind that would still be provided to them...with the exception of potentially allowing chief to be purchased, instead (without the color) in the store for, say, $20.
I remember watching the stream where they said "halo has competitive at its core" which just simply wasn't true. Competitive is a big part of halo now and I am fine with that. But from our perspective, it seems like some people working for 343 have a fundamental misunderstanding of what makes halo halo when it comes to your average unranked match. SBMM still has a place, but like you said, it needs to be looser. almost every game is a sweatfest. Sometimes I am in the mood for that, but if I am, I would rather go to ranked than have to deal with it all the time in casual.
I played a ridiculously good set of Husky Raid matches where I out performed my expected number of kills, and every game since then I've been straight garbage
The competitive gaming scene is really the greatest threat to fun in modern multiplayer gaming. Non-ranked modes really shouldn’t be forced into this type of restrictive match making. I understand ranked and E Sports, but I just want to have fun in Halo when I’m playing casually (which is how I play exclusively). I don’t even care if I lose, its just not fun if I go from dominating completely in one game to getting absolutely destroyed while my team stands there.
Completely agree with your points but holy shit man those last few clips were wild, had to rewatch those parts again just to actually listen to your points since I was so invested in the gameplay lmao
I encountered this bad last week. Won 3 games in a row only to the lose the next 7 in a row. I will say though I have previously liked the matchmaking as I like when the games are close and they usually are quite close. What gets me peeved is when I'm in a game and carrying the team for the most part only to lose anyway. I imagine as you have previously described that it is easier to place a single great player on a team with mediocre players than to find a handful of good players all evenly ranked. Regardless I do advocate for sbmm.
I think the reason for SBMM being so extreme is because of how low the player count was prior to the games season 5 update, it's as if the settings have been modified to make sure players could get into games since the player base was so slim, but now with this larger influx of players its becoming way more noticed, I think they will adjust these settings dependent on player base.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 84 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องศึก vs เมืองไทย"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3kuzsAIDf1c/mqdefault.jpg)
Do you think 343 should change Halo SBMM?
Yes and reinstate pre/post game lobbies
Hell yes
Yes
A thousand times, yes.
They should get past their ego and get rid of it. NOBODY likes SBMM.
Not to mention the sbmm updating match by match is the reason we can’t have pre/post game lobbies anymore! Which is the biggest problem in Infinite for me, as a casual player
I wish we had post game lobbies so much
Honestly that makes so much sense and I never thought about that
Yeah, ngl I'd give Infinite a lot more grace with it's problems if we at least had Pre/Post game lobbies and a less bloodthirsty SBMM.
It was so cool to look at other People Spartans before a Match,a nd now you only see yourself and it really feels so ... lonely? Lonely compared to past games that is.
Why nobody talks anyway 😂
the overtuned SBMM is the biggest problem I have with halo infinite currently. I want so much to learn this game and become a better player, but as long as there’s a system in place that actually *punishes* players for being better I’ll never have the motivation to try. Making sure new players don’t get stomped and ensuring all players have a good time without having to sweat every single match are NOT mutually exclusive. I don’t believe this false dilemma put forth by 343 and others who defend hard SBMM. It’s absurd.
That's Why I play 2042 since launch, it was shit, but now it's fun; and the best part - every match feels different because there is every level of skill present on the field. You can play casual or hardcore, the game is still fun. Not so much with infinite... I can't play it without sound and listen to music to relax a bit, because otherwise I just get stomped all the freaking time
when you yourself have to sweat; its the other teams fault for being too good at the game ( youre not supposed to) and not having a fucking life.
SBMM sucks but I will say that I only start noticing it after a win streak. The game is still really good and it’s going to take thousands of matches to be at the level where you get punished severely. After a win streak the game will “humble you” as I call it.
@@TheJediev90 Either what you said is outright wrong, or i'm somehow an above average player. I start to see this "humble game" kick in after the FIRST win
@@giantslayer9335 ok my bad. Have a great evening.
I love it when the worst person on the enemy team has a higher score than the best person on our team. Totally not rigged.
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death
i understand sbmm to an extent but being punished in social arena and sometimes having teammates not your skill range says a lot how bad it can be
Yeah.... I heard the whole point is to keep you playing but I just quit when I see the signs and try again the next day when it does that. Like why not just pair me up with people on the same rank? Like Im fine with having similarly skilled or higher skilled enemy teams but at least pair me with that type of team as well because youre still gonna need reliable allies to do things, i cant go all rambo on my own like its call of duty
I should not have to be assigned to carry my team in socials. I want to do dumb shit and meme in socials. If I wanted to sweat I'd play ranked
10 game loss streak, with games like 28 -9, 18-7 in swat and 9/10 positive k/d.... Really sad
facts!!!! if having fun and doing dumb stuff leads to me popping off so be it. If i wanna sweat id go to ranked@@Aroproductions53
@@MaximeGrenier11agree it suck when you on a team and all want to do is drive people around in a warthog in squad battle but you can't because halo expects you to get 15-20 kill and be one of the carries
The game gives you a few wins, then lots of losses so you can get a higher dopamine hit when you finally get a win; It's ment to frustrate you so you'll play longer. It has the opposite effect because there is nothing to grind passed the sweat-fest for.
What, you mean mk6 in a year and a half if you play a couple hours a day isn't motivational? (/s)
@@xcfjdyrkdtulkgfilhu Haha, I like the joke; it made me laugh. They should give some type of grind points so you can choose: old weekly rewards, old drops, old promotions, or a single item from store. Each needing different points to earn.
Accurate.
That's engagement based matchmaking for you. We live in a psychologically manipulative nightmare
"The goal of Halo 2’s level system is first and foremost to help you find the most enjoyable games possible. Games that are neck and neck, where the only sure way to win is by playing above your abilities, be it through better planning, more focus, improved team communication, whatever. But it’s fun to not be so serious all the time. That’s what custom games are for, or the Training Grounds playlist if you don’t have enough Friends online to form a custom game. But we believe that games that challenge you to rise above your current abilities are the most enjoyable and the most rewarding. Thus the level system is intended as a tool to help you find good games, not something to be abused or obsessed over."
- Bungie.
The idea that the computer decides who wins and loses each game is a large contributing factor to why I haven't picked it back up.
I'm sure you are not the only one. Multiplayer is rigged 😤
I don't blame you, and if you surpass that point where the game can't find you anyone to match against the will just say "Not enough players in the playlist, try another mode." All the meanwhile you are watching twitch streamers play with their friends and find games against new people instantly in the same playlist.
This has plagued the swat playlist for almost 1.5-2 years now.
"The goal of Halo 2’s level system is first and foremost to help you find the most enjoyable games possible. Games that are neck and neck, where the only sure way to win is by playing above your abilities, be it through better planning, more focus, improved team communication, whatever. But it’s fun to not be so serious all the time. That’s what custom games are for, or the Training Grounds playlist if you don’t have enough Friends online to form a custom game. But we believe that games that challenge you to rise above your current abilities are the most enjoyable and the most rewarding. Thus the level system is intended as a tool to help you find good games, not something to be abused or obsessed over."
- Bungie.
@@user-oo6hn6ek1d It could. But the problem is people like MintBlitz don't want this kind of SBMM because it's actually "skill" based matchmaking. Halo Infinite doesn't even have Skill Based Matchmaking in any other location outside of CSR 1600+ in Ranked Arena/Slayer due to the Halo Communities dislike of actually playing against and with players of equal skill.
To put into context, Halo Infinite's horrendous 'sbmm' for social doesn't even exist in Social. There is no SBMM in Social as of early 2023, and before 2023 -- it was designed around winrate so people like MintBlitz can farm kills; Now there's no SBMM because the player population is so abysmal in social playlists (I'm not joking) that there's absolutely zero way to have 'skill based matchmaking' and have people find games. Over 85% of players only touch Ranked Arena & Ranked Slayer.
But that's not a coincidence as to why; Halo 2 and Halo 3 only had ranked playlists and it's predominantly the younger kids (24 and under) who are playing in Social, while the adult Halo fan's typically are playing traditional level-based Halo.
Social is unplayable for me at this point. Either I'm getting destroyed or I'm carrying the entire team and still losing.
Exactly this!
Yup its terrible in 4v4 modes
Even in modes like Husky Raid. “You won one game? Prepare to get 3-0’d for the next 4 matches”
Thank you for your continued coverage of this. SBMM is my number one gripe with this game. And the devs never mention it.
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death
I have lost 9 out of the last ten matches, and that one win I had to fight for my life in. By 343's own SBMM logic I shouldn't be losing this often, but when I'm constantly going up against the same four Diamond and Onyx level players that have iron grips on power weapons and vehicles and my team is made up of Bronze and Silver players it just seems like the game has it out for me.
This is the worst time I've had in a multiplayer game, and I used to grind Crucible in Destiny 2!
Yeah about three days ago, I lost like 9 matches in a row on Prism/Forbidden 24/7 before I started winning again. My teammates were complete newbs and I still put up an average of 18 kills a game. But we STILL lost. 👎
I bet I could guess a few of the tags of those same four diamond and onyx guys, too.
I think there's a hole in the logic of SBMM, and a few people have figured out how to exploit it by sandbagging sometimes so they get matches they can stomp for 50+ kills worth of career XP the other times.
Lol I too used to be a crucible nut but finally started to feel a similar way about D2 having it out for me. Honestly ever since season of the haunted its gotten worse and worse. This game feels better but not by a lot
dude I would straight up lose every match for a whole 6 hour play time almost every day for the first few weeks of launch on this game because id get the challenge to win 5 matches. when id complain about it to 343 in the ticket system they told me to fuck off to the forums and when i complained about it in the forums the community told me i was crazy and exaggerating when i wasnt. the games are rigged so whats the point. its so bad the individual gunfights are rigged and horrendously unfun. This game gaslights you so bad i had mood problems for the rest of the day if i played it for even an hour and i dont usually get so worked up in games. i used to play crucible in destiny 1 and battlefront EA when autolocking bullets were meta and those games were more fun than this. This game is easily the worst game i have ever played because of the sbmm and other systems like the challenge system rigging your matches. This game was so bad it punted me out of the mood to even play MCC until recently. If they never fix SBMM im hoping firefight is atleast fun.
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
baffling how they don't just use the matchmaker that has been present in halo from 2 all the way to 4. nobody complained about it. its insane how this studio finds every little way they can to ruin halo for no reason.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 343 changing it simply for the fact if changing it. Newer does not always mean better.
343 wants to do whatever CoD does, including replicating its worst aspects
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death
I think completely pandering to the competitive community has just about ruined halo. I miss all the weapons we had before and I liked that there were unsc weapons and covenant equivalents. It felt like each faction was fleshed out and had armories that could adapt to any situation. Now in the campaign the banished use human weapons half the time, and weapons that have been around forever are gone.
This exactly. SBMM existed way back when but it was never a problematic mechanic until esports took off and games started trying to force the "sweat your ass off because there is half a million dollars on the line" experience on literally everyone.
Nobody had a problem with Halo 2 and 3's SBMM, and surprise surprise, those games weren't literally designed from the ground up to stoke Pro level players sensitive egos and provide them with a game that only THEY can play well.
@@rashira9610Halo 2 was made that way accidentally
Pandering to the competitive community ruins any game. Trying to please sweaty tryhards (me included) will ruin a game's future that almost always certainly contains a majority of players who are there to have a good time or to just learn the game.
Its ruined Multiplayer gaming period. Online games used to be more fun.
At least bring the Plasma Rifle back, that weapon's too iconic to just ditch!
It is sad that many great games are having strict match matchmaking.
Old games were truly gold.
Can we just go back to server browser days? Haha
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
This isn't a halo problem. All multiplayer games nowadays use this super strict sbmm. It won't change because it has become the industry standard. It feels worse in halo than other games because halo was always more of a social game experience.
"The goal of Halo 2’s level system is first and foremost to help you find the most enjoyable games possible. Games that are neck and neck, where the only sure way to win is by playing above your abilities, be it through better planning, more focus, improved team communication, whatever. But it’s fun to not be so serious all the time. That’s what custom games are for, or the Training Grounds playlist if you don’t have enough Friends online to form a custom game. But we believe that games that challenge you to rise above your current abilities are the most enjoyable and the most rewarding. Thus the level system is intended as a tool to help you find good games, not something to be abused or obsessed over."
- Bungie.
Halo created Skill based matchmaking.
MintBlitz just hates it because if it's actually doing it's job, he'd be considered less than average at best.
@@anonymous7564Jesus can you stop spamming this you've posted it like 4 times
@@anonymous7564 Nah b, the skill based matchmaking was never this bad in the old games
@@anonymous7564It's not necessarily the issue of SBMM itself; it's the issue of how strict it's become in modern games.
Even games like BO2 had SBMM. Reach, Halo 3, MW2, Black Ops, etc.; pretty much every game back then had it, but it wasn't as strict to this degree. For example, did you know that Call of Duty titles prioritize the skill level even over the ping? This is not how the system used to work. It would prioritize ping over skill first. And that is the issue. The game will purposefully throw you into a lobby where you will have a laggy connection because it is prioritizing your skill level over everything else.
Someone in another thread said this and it actually makes perfect sense; the reason we don't have post-game lobbies anymore is a direct result of the SBMM being changed on the fly after every match. It's not going to party you up with the same people who you just stomped, because they're going to be carted off to a lobby where they can get a win, while you'll be sent to the sweatiest match imaginable until you finally lose. Even with SBMM in Halo 2 and beyond, there was still a post-game lobby because the SBMM wasn't as strict.
You're getting a little confused about the issues with modern SBMM, but hopefully you read this message and can understand the nuances of it. There's plenty of insightful videos out there regarding CoD's toxic SBMM you should watch if you want to learn more; I imagine that Halo Infinite adopts similar systems to CoD, but perhaps not as strict.
@@_Mutt_ Highly imperative to get people to realize they're being lied to.
I recently had a game to where I was 26 - 3 in kills to deaths meanwhile my teammates averaged to 5 - 15, sometimes you just get games that are too low for your sbmm. And then the game after that I get curb stomped by onyx level players decked out in that infamous master chief armor kit and Halo esports armor effect sweating his balls off
And sometimes you get a dominant game, as Mint said, simply because of the spawns on the map, not your skills.
e.g. I'm a mid player overall ... just a gold CSR in the little bit of ranked I've even played, with a pretty close to neutral career k/d. But I spent most of yesterday evening's gaming getting punished because I dropped a 36-1 the night before ... off of simply lucking into grabbing back to back scorpion spawns in Oasis against a team that just kept trying to rush them head on. That's a lucky game, not a skillful one - why is it affecting most of the next two hours I play?
Dude I went 50-20 on Husky Raid and for the last 3 days I only spawn with the plasma pistol and pulse carbine. I swear SBMM also affects Fiesta weapon spawns.
@@Bagginsessyes! I’ve been saying this. I’ll get the rocket launcher once a game, the rest of the lobby gets it a few times
@@matthewnugent505 yup. I don't bother to play it for that reason.
@@Bagginsess idk what to play anymore with SBMM ruining a casual gaming experience smh
Every time I try to get my friends into anything. The first question they ask me is about the matchmaking. If there is strict SBMM, they don't even consider playing. They've been so hyped for XDefiant because of the reason that it doesn't have SBMM. It doesn't belong in almost any game, especially in non-ranked matches. Splatoon 3 also handles this system pretty well by letting variety be a thing while protecting "bad" players.
SBMM is the true essence of a vibe killer.
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
Please keep bringing this up. 343 needs to act on this
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death
I think this might be the hardest thing to get change on, because I imagine investors are happy with what they were sold on. This “engagement-based matchmaking.” It sounds like something that the people who pay 343i but don’t play video games would want to keep the numbers up.
However, I also think it’s reached a breaking point. MWIII is getting raked over the coals for the strictest sbmm ever, and here is the halo tuber with arguably the most influence among 343i talking about it. I hope we can beat the corpo suits and ties and make games fun again.
they wont do anything, people will consume shit and ask for more.
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
@@kozeyone6232 I dunno if Bill Gates is directly responsible, but does reflect on the whole "Microsoft Gaming" brand as a whole. Games made by corpos just aren't that fun, and people are finally realizing.
@@samm.8052 bill gates surely hired like minded individuals to do his bidding and expelled anyone with a conscience like with the vaccine, ask yourself, would a good guy do that? or try to take the fun out of games?
I don't play nearly as long of a session in Infinite as I did in other Halos because the game so obviously creates an outcome based on my last game. Just knowing I don't have a chance to win 2 games in a row makes me not want to play. But I really love the gameplay so I keep coming back despite this.
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
Its abysmal - I'm consistently put onto teams where teammates can only manage 3-4 kills a game vs the enemy team who's dropping 12-14 kills
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
I literally had fellow Halo community members crying and walk away from the game for how much SBMM has affected/bastardized their Halo experience.
I came after not playing from Reach 13 years ago, getting wrecked by zoomers after one win and it's making me want to drop it
@@iratepirate3896I don’t blame you, I am similar and the aiming and the strict sbmm kinda hurt my soul
"The goal of Halo 2’s level system is first and foremost to help you find the most enjoyable games possible. Games that are neck and neck, where the only sure way to win is by playing above your abilities, be it through better planning, more focus, improved team communication, whatever. But it’s fun to not be so serious all the time. That’s what custom games are for, or the Training Grounds playlist if you don’t have enough Friends online to form a custom game. But we believe that games that challenge you to rise above your current abilities are the most enjoyable and the most rewarding. Thus the level system is intended as a tool to help you find good games, not something to be abused or obsessed over."
- Bungie.
The community members crying and walk away because they never wanted Halo from the start. They would have hated Halo 2 and Halo 3 back in the day, just like why MintBlitz get's 400 sprees on brand new players, it's entirely a facetious to think that the reason they walked away was due to "skill" based matchmaking in playlists that don't even have MMR affecting their matching.
(Social doesn't utilize MMR, only ranked arena & ranked slayer do till below 1600; Above 1600 is CSR-Based Matchmaking).
@@anonymous7564 "(Social doesn't utilize MMR, only ranked arena & ranked slayer do till below 1600; Above 1600 is CSR-Based Matchmaking)." That's a literal fucking lie.
I ONLY play social modes and I get victimized by the Match making nonstop.
I can be the worst player on a winning team and BAM three four matches of getting stomped into the fucking dust.
After about six losses straight though I get paired up against people that are borderline comatose for the easy pity win.
Out of here with this "it's only ranked" nonsense.
@@anonymous7564 You're delusional. I played Halo 3 religiously from 07-09 and it was NEVER like this.
I'm convinced the fiesta weapon spawns are righed too. I spawn with the plasma pistol as a primary up to 4 times in a row most matches. Statistically its impossible for that to happen if the spawns are random
I play husky raid abit and constantly go against teams that constantly get hammers, swords with grapple or cindershot and rockets where we get sensos and shrouds and pistols and the br or Ar
ironically, spawning with only the marksman precision weapon lots in Super Fiesta or Super Husky Raid makes you feel like a second class citizen
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
Such strict SBMM is the reason I go out of my way to keep my K/D ratio negative during matches. Saves me so much stress.
I'm thinking about reverse boosting.
@@andrewstaples5862I've done it. It's way more fun than going try hard
@JD-wu5pf it works though. Look at cod players.
@JD-wu5pf it's literally just math. You could reverse boost if you don't care about rank and it is the most optimal. But if you care about rank then matches that sbmm puts in your favor you can always throw your life away a bunch before you win. That'll prevent your hidden mmr from raising too much.
Its just math
Yeah it is an issue i am average player, and it varies like crazy, i feel bad for the players i play against that absolutely slams 30 kills 3 deaths but the rest of the team has like 1-4 so they lose, but then i have a decent game 15 kills 2 deaths suddenly i get in a lobby of john wicks. Its all over the place
I hate sbmm. Almost every social match I play feels like a sweatfest. I really wish 343 could make it so that social games have it turned off or at least turned down.
That's how it's supposed to be for the social playlist and the sbmm only makes sense in Ranked where your skills are tested. Idk how the Devs don't see that. Or they do and don't care. All they care for is the money they make from the shop. It's the exact same problem CoD is having as well.
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
I thought I was the only one.
I can play very well (15-3) or average (12-11) for 5 matches, but then, I start questioning my abilities because I get absolutely demolished (talking about 2-15 or worse.)
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
I'm glad you made this video, I was literally thinking about SBMM last night. In my squad battle games it was smash or get smashed, every game back and forth with no in between. And on the games where we were smashed, I was doing like 12 and 7 and my second place player was around 4 and 11. I just sucks, so I hope if the community really makes a big stink 343 may start talking about it.
we should have a menu like MCC where if you want to play slayer big team heavies you choose it and if you wanna play objectives then you choose that playlist.. sometimes is annoying playing objectives (Total control, CTF) 3-5 times in a row
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
Modern gaming does not use SBMM (skill based matchmaking); Modern Gaming uses EOMM (Engagement Optimized MatchMaking) designed to force wins and losses to create frustration to continue playing the game more. It is used a a player retention tool instead of using fun as a player retention tool.
A little correction of this: Halo Infinite's was designed to mirror something akin to Fall Guys and Destiny 2, and was originally modified post Joshua Menke's departure in 2021. This also broke the "CSR" progression and matching, as it's original design was closer to a Halo 5 mixed with Halo 3. The "move to adjust this" was a Forerunner push, not an internal developer push, and was a higher up decision by a specific individual who departed form layoffs (officially, unofficially "left on his own accord") in January of this year.
For clarity: Ranked almost never launched with Halo Infinite because the Halo Community deemed Halo as "a social party game" during the Forerunner testing and liaison's, with one specific individual in this program claiming that "competitive was a niche" (It's never, never was).
Although this is mostly correct, "Social" doesn't use any SBMM (at all) and only Ranked CSR Onyx 1600+ uses a form of SBMM, whilst the rest uses a sort of EOMM method adjusted from TrueSkill2, with "ranked" (today) being one that, below Onyx 1600, matches based on EOMM but can only pool on players within a specified CSR range of the player searching.
This is also why an Onyx 1600 can only match with people within a certain field of 'CSR' as them. Because, just like Halo 2 and Halo 3, was skill based entirely.
SBMM is literally the one thing that puts me off this game, I constantly get team mates who play with their toes 😢
Same. Matches are rigged.
Easiest fix:
Only specifically ranked modes should take skill into account. All other lobbies should just throw whoever in together.
Yes, sometimes that will mean there are utter stomps in casuals. Having been on both ends of that, it doesn't happen every match, and if a person can't handle it then they aren't going to be playing online much anyway.
I like this fix. Let's also add one thing I've been posting here too:
"The goal of Halo 2’s level system is first and foremost to help you find the most enjoyable games possible. Games that are neck and neck, where the only sure way to win is by playing above your abilities, be it through better planning, more focus, improved team communication, whatever. But it’s fun to not be so serious all the time. That’s what custom games are for, or the Training Grounds playlist if you don’t have enough Friends online to form a custom game. But we believe that games that challenge you to rise above your current abilities are the most enjoyable and the most rewarding. Thus the level system is intended as a tool to help you find good games, not something to be abused or obsessed over."
- Bungie. 2004 - 2010.
A resolution truly is something akin to:
- Add 12+ ranked playlists (Like Halo 2 & Halo 3), consolidate social playlists to 4 - 5 (Like Halo 2 & Halo 3). "Ranked" must have all the same precision weapon starts, radar off. No exceptions.
- Ranked needs to remove "MMR" entirely, CSR matchmaking, period, with no placement matches.
- Social must have no SBMM period, and then when people cry that "SBMM is too strict", there needs to be an actual red text that says "No SBMM is applied here" so they understand that sbmm is actually not hurting their experience (It's hurting their ego, not their gameplay).
- Expand the "Onyx" rank to a Champion-style rank like seen within Halo 5.
And that would actually resolve a lot of issues across the board with Halo Infinite.
The issue, however, is the Halo Community doesn't want to resolve issues with Halo Infinite. They want to resolve issues with their insecurity of playing video games such that they are capable of being rewarded for putting "thousand of hours in" without directly being told "You're average, to less than average, at this video game."
Biggest issue with the current sbmm system is that it is so strict it actively prioritizes matching you according to your skill level over having a good connection.
Strict? There's no strict anything; Social doesn't even use TrueSkill2 as of earlier this year.
Ranked below 1600 utilizes MMR, which is based on winrate rather than skill.
Here's a quote from Bungie I'm sharing intentionally so people stop believing this nonsense:
"The goal of Halo 2’s level system is first and foremost to help you find the most enjoyable games possible. Games that are neck and neck, where the only sure way to win is by playing above your abilities, be it through better planning, more focus, improved team communication, whatever. But it’s fun to not be so serious all the time. That’s what custom games are for, or the Training Grounds playlist if you don’t have enough Friends online to form a custom game. But we believe that games that challenge you to rise above your current abilities are the most enjoyable and the most rewarding. Thus the level system is intended as a tool to help you find good games, not something to be abused or obsessed over."
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
Bro getting banned is wild. Imagine the game telling u, “ur so bad u cant play anymore.” RIP lil bro.
We need to start something where we all mail in letters to the office to get them to stop the strict sbmm and overload their office with these petitions just like people sent them way too much pizza when MCC was made available on pc
Thank you for bringing attention to this issue! This is precisely why I can't fully enjoy this game. If my friends want to play with me, they *have* to go up against people absolutely shitting on them, and I have to carry the team. Pretty much everyone gets sick of this within 30 minutes and many don't return.
I haven't played Infinite in over a year thanks to this. Makes the game completely unfun when the matchmaking is actively forcing you to lose half of your games making everything a sweat fest if you want to win even in so called "social" unranked playlists.
Same. I love Halo but, this just completely ruins the game for casuals. I'm not trying to sweat every damn game. Winning 2-3 matches in a row is a death sentence. Your guaranteed an L if you can't completely clutch the match single handedly because your teams going to be trash while your enemies are going to be sweaties. It's not fun.
Same, so many games use this dumb tactic, the baffling part many companies say the data support this as the ideal approach.
My closest friends (we game together since Halo CE) refuse to touch infinite, they were so disappointed by s5 not solving sbmm or netcode they just gave it a pass until firefight returns.
Not to mention that when they realized we would not be able to q together they didn't want to believe it to be true .
Man, it is sad how true this is. I just reinstalled Infinite a few days after not playing since multiplayer launch, where I only stayed around for 1-2 weeks after release. I will get top score in 1-2 matches, then on the third I just get STOMPED by people who have well over 1000 matches played. It makes me feel like I have to constantly sweat which I dislike. Hopefully it gets toned down at some point. @@GAB-vq7re
I'd love to play with my older brother but he's just going to have a terrible time :( due to this SBMM nonsense.
I still say desync is a worse problem. It keeps getting worse too. Desync in season 5 is the worst it's ever been.
It's ridiculous that I live in Oregon, have a sub 30ms ping, gig speed internet and still deal with obvious Desync in as much as HALF of my games.
can we talk about how the ranked system team balances on mmr, I feel like this shouldn't be the case, you either are able to play as well as anybody in your ranked range, or you shouldn't be in that rank range to begin with, I hate that good players that deserve to rank up are matched with worse players of the same rank, it just makes it harder to progress
I love how they literally changed that so it is now based off csr. Do you follow any halo news?
I hadn’t played halo in months and felt like it was my first time ever playing the game with the matches I was in.
I’ve never been more infuriated about a video games matchmaking in my life. I’m constantly slamming my controller against my table, screaming at the top of my lungs at the game, and just letting out all of my rage and having so many unfair games so unbearably consistently that at times, I’ve just considered leaving this game entirely. How does a AAA game studio feel good about implementing this garbage system into the game? The matchmaking in this game is just so incomprehensibly stupid and it’s pissing me off. I can do good in just a few games one time and then I have back to back consecutive terrible games for weeks.
I think sbmm is ok to an extent. 343 definitely needs to relax it quite a bit especially with squad battle. I tried playing squad battle a few times when it was first added and haven’t played since because it just wasn’t fun for me.
I swear I’ll get teammates who legitimately don’t know how to play. They’ll wonder around aimlessly, completely ignoring objectives and enemies. I can’t even be mad at them because I’m pretty sure it’s someone’s 5yo kid. It’s like me and maybe another person against the entire enemy team almost every match
I've been getting stuck playing matches in Heavies where my entire team will never get in a vehicle but the opposite team has managed to steal my team's Wraith, get the Scorpion and the Wasp, and have snipers in every corner of the map. Had one match of Total Control where we lost in less than 5 minutes because no one ever bothered to capture a zone; exit the game after that and decided to play something else.
To put a positive spin on things, so much outcry about these kind of systems goes to show how much better the raw gameplay content of the game is now, so people can turn their attention to these things
Your point 2 makes no sense. Halo expects you to utilise the equipment and items on the battlefield to your advantage, having different weapons and placements helps the player in thinking smarter about how they will play and encourages map control. It also discourages camping, the game wants you out and about, not hiding in a corner camping and sniping everyone, that’s just not fun for other players and the issue gets worse if the weapon placement is the same. It’ll make players dislike the map and avoid it.
The game also provides you with many other power weapons to do good with, the sniper isn’t the only weapon that’ll give you an advantage.
If you want to just play with snipers, that’s fine, it’s called team snipers.
If you want to destroy your enemies, that’s also fine, that’s called playing with bots.
We don’t need it
Still way better than Overwatch. I feel like I win the vast majority of my matches in more kill-based modes as long as I'm consistently going +10 to +20 elims higher than anybody else in the lobby, whereas when I do the same in Overwatch I still lose around 45% of my matches due to some garbage teammate who isn't properly fulfilling their role. Capture The Flag and Oddball are rough though with nobody playing the objective to take advantage of all your kills, and social modes should be more casual. Besides that though Halo matches are almost always fun, whereas Overwatch ones are almost always stressful.
johsua menke single handedly on a mission from the latter day saints to make life for everyone in CoD, Halo and league of legends hell. What a legend.
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
Thank you for covering this... The ranked matchmaking feels really hard to win. Couple that with players dropping after the first point lost or getting kicked from the server, and they're impossible. Its just not fun, especially this season.
I've been playing since CE but am primarily a campaign guy. Each game over the years, my K/D has been like 1.05. I am just naturally volatile, sometimes going 25-10, sometimes going 10-25. So I am usually pretty oblivious to SBMM 😅
Having bad teammates comes and goes when the system is more sporadic, that is fine but not every single game. Social matches are there to bring the community together, play with your friends, play with your viewers, etc.
The current SBMM does not really accommodate to the current player base for Halo Infinite, it needs to be weaker. For a mode where you are not playing for a rank or for any gains whatsoever, it sure does feel like it.
I would love to play swat with my friends, and that goes with all the viewers I have when I stream or even when I just encounter random people. It sucks I have to shoot everyone down because I know I can't play with friends in a few social game modes.
Some of the closest people I know online has been me randomly matching them and then partying up together, the fact I can't do this is social swat goes to show why some modes have issues with the community trying to connect to each other.
Another big thing is queue times. The game tries to hand pick people one by one to which will result in a long queue time if you are good or if you reside outside North America. Being good outside of America is just a double whammy of long queue times resulting in people straight up not being able to play the game.
In the middle of February 2021, 343 pushed an update that prioritized connection more than anything, this was when people were connecting to EU server while from NA and so on. This update had connection override SBMM, and for the one and only day on Halo Infinite, people of all skill, people at any time, people of any party size were able to queue in any playlist they wanted and found games within a minute. I know because I was one of those people. Sadly, this update broke ranked and was reverted back the next day, but this update goes to show that the reason why people sit in queues for a long time, can't find matches, or can't play with friends is clearly due to SBMM.
I would love to see Mint do a deep dive into SBMM as I am honestly doing the same thing. I do think SBMM should exist but not to the current extent. A looser, more random system would be more beneficial for all of the community such as your content creators, sweats, casuals, and even players that are just getting into gaming today.
I really want this game to thrive as I think it has potential, it just needs tweaks. I also fail to understand why some modes are getting SBMM changed to making it more strict or making it less strict, it's social, don't change things where it prevents people from playing the game with friends or making it into a social ranked mode with no ranked rewards.
It feels like every game I have a teammate who's playing on a steering wheel
Or they just sit and watch you get destroyed and then mop up the kills.
when you do good, they send a sniper to get you , then they have the nerve to laugh as if they did something but call for their own death, gives you an idea of who bill gates is :)
Whatever bungie did, prime time halo 3 big team. I know all the dlcs were out, at least sandbox. It was so social and fun and great for a Friday night. Infinite does feel like another job
I caught myself getting pissed off during a game even tho my team was winning and I was ontop of the board I was sweating so hard just to compete I wasn’t having fun
Personally, I can deal with hard lobbies. What I can’t deal with is a terrible map selection, like the one squad battle has rn. Absolutely awful, one one good map, and it’s like CTF is the only mode sometimes.
I can have a 20 to 30 kills / 10-15 deaths game and the next I’m sweating trying to even get one, this is really annoying..
Squad Battle getting its SBMM increased would explain why I’ve been getting ass blasted and subsequently pissed off the last few times I’ve been playing that mode.
If im playing with friends and we can’t find games thats a problem. I shouldn’t have to drop 30+ kills to barely win a slayer match. It’s exhausting
Definitely agree. This SBMM is one of the few major issues left to address in this game now, IMO it would be a huge mistake for 343 to ignore it.
The content of Infinite seems to be in a good place now, but there's a lot of other stuff that still pulls me away from the game. SBMM is definitely too strict and I'm glad it was touched upon, the menus still lag when moving around, rubberbanding/shots feeling inconsistent in games, and imo the maps feel too big, and sound design may be crunchy but doesn't feel like it has the same impact as older games. Idk, just don't feel like I have that drive to play the game as much.
Its gotten even way worse for me this season. I know I'm able to compete at a Diamond level but right now I'm stuck in Plat 2-3 in ranked because it only matches me up with plat5-diamond4s. I'm able to win some of those matches and keep my position but it feels like the game is ACTIVELY puting up a wall and not letting me progress through the ranks. Like its forcing a 50/50 winrate by upscaling my opponents. Social also feels just as sweaty as ranked, but with even worse teamates.
SBMM should be dailed down in social to be non existent. Ranked should have SBMM but not off hidden MMR. Ranked should be based off your current Rank like in the past
Picked the game up after a year break and already quit after 3 days due to SBMM. Its just not fun knowing that your about to have a 5 game losing streak just because you had 1 or 2 good games. I miss the days when games had a more subtle system.
is anybody else bugged by the fact that fiesta isn’t actually fiesta? there’s a lot of preset weapon combos that you randomly get, instead of randomly getting two weapons
I think you are just unlucky lmao
@@crabotidk man, i haven’t kept track of it but i feel like there are preset combos
ive had that happen a lot. same weapon combos over and over. it may not be presets but it may be the way weapons are weighted for getting them. and that there is no rule keeping us from getting 2 highly weighted guns. (Which is bs tbh) i honestly have a theory its tied to sbmm as well. when my buddies and i play. we get nothing. we get pulse carbines and commandos. while the entire enemy team gets hammers, swords, rockets and snipers over and over. its so stupid
"Ranked" as a concept is completely meaningless when all games are heavily weighted towards skill anyway. All social gametypes should be relatively loose. I can't even play with my best friend without a full fireteam. If it's just the two of us, he can't get any kills since the parties are so heavily weighted towards me. It's so frustrating and ruins what could otherwise be a great party game.
Leave competitive matchmaking to ranked playlists for people that are consciously opting in to that experience!
They need to bring back the system that worked since the older halo games up until they changed it after reach/halo 4
"The goal of Halo 2’s level system is first and foremost to help you find the most enjoyable games possible. Games that are neck and neck, where the only sure way to win is by playing above your abilities, be it through better planning, more focus, improved team communication, whatever. But it’s fun to not be so serious all the time. That’s what custom games are for, or the Training Grounds playlist if you don’t have enough Friends online to form a custom game. But we believe that games that challenge you to rise above your current abilities are the most enjoyable and the most rewarding. Thus the level system is intended as a tool to help you find good games, not something to be abused or obsessed over."
- Bungie.
Agreed. Simply making it highly competitive and putting only 3 or 4 playlists to unranked/social would entirely fix the problem. The problem, however, is that the people advocating for "fixing the problem" also don't want to fix the problem because they benefit severely from a broken matchmaking system.
This is deja vu from Destiny’s PVP experience
I stopped playing because I'm always teamed up with horrible teammates. I lose basically every game. IM NOT EVEN THAT GOOD!!!
The sbmm in this game is so bad, I can't play more than 3 games before getting off. The matches feel fake and completely rigged. Its a constant situation I have where I'm doing the most on the team but my teammates are just awful. Its not their fault though, the game expected me to do everything and carry the game for them cause I did really well the match before. That isn't fair for me or my teammates.
Yeah skill based matchmaking has completely ruined my experience with season 5. I've been playing a lot since season 5 launched and I've only ever been paired up with incredibly sweaty people. I am not very good and I don't take the game very seriously so to get curb stomped 20 matches in a row just really sucks. Especially since the few matches I did win was because my teammates carried me which made me feel bad cause I felt like dead weight. This all changed when I started playing with my friend. For the first time not only was I performing well going 20/2 but I was having a lot of fun with the multiplayer. But that was also short lived cause later I felt like I was a part of the problem ruining the game for other people. The friend I was playing with was very new to the game and incredibly inexperienced and so were probably the people on the other team and I could have ruined several peoples experience with the game. I just wish it could go back to the way it was at the start of season 4. The games felt well balanced and the matches were always neck and neck. Well hopefully if I play long enough the system will realize I don't belong in that skill bracket and knock me down a few pegs and I can start having fun again.
You said yourself you're not very good. I couldn't imagine why your getting stomped? If you were the one winning would the other people be posting this same comment?
@@NinjaDilly Granted when you're the one getting stomped it's much more noticable but as I said at the end of my comment I don't want to be getting stomped or be the one stomping. Both times it feels shitty. I'd like to just have fair matches. Now that's of course not always possible and I understand that. Sometimes you're just going to face players that are better but I'd just like it so that the difference wasn't so drastic. I'm completely ok getting a negative KD at the end of a match or losing the match it's what happens quite often (again I'm not that good) but it starts being a problem when I start getting 2 to 4 kills per game with over 10 deaths and I didn't have this problem in earlier seasons.
I’ve just lost five games in a row in the featured playlist because every time a teammate either goes AFK or leaves and is replaced by a useless bot. Every. Single. Time.
I've noticed that I most times get matches with low bronze teammates, (I'm platinum) and the enemy are usually all gold or even higher than me.
I know rank doesn't equal skill or anything but just an observation after playing hundreds of games.
Same here
That's exactly the issue, than what are ranks for? selling sticker for the guns and armor?
Funny how 343 doesnt realize how easy it would be to make some small changes that everyone would love.
Thaaaaank you mint!!!! I've been dealing with this in ranked since launch. I play CONSISTENTLY better every match and the game CONTINUALLY makes every subsequent match HARDER by giving me even WORSE teammates. My stats are ridiculous but so are all my losses. Unless you roll with a fireteam, good play results in punishment.
Seriously, thank you for finally addressing this. Tve sbmm pisses me off so much
I had a game where the matchmaking expected me to go slightly negative in kd. And it was bang on with its prediction. Issue is: I was on top of my team's leaderboard and i performed as it expected. The enemy team completed trashed us. That basically concludes that the matchmaker literally put me in an unwinnable match where we were supposed to be trashed.
Normally i wouldn't have an issue with this, but that is what sbmm is supposed to stop. I only had a few hours into halo infinite multiplayer at that point and just quit.
There’s a lot of things, but THIS is the reason why I quit playing. I don’t want 343 deciding whether I win a game or not. Also, getting BANNED for not getting a kill is CRAZY 💀💀💀
Great video and definitely needed. To go along with this I also think there needs to be more discussion around fixing Ranked playlists to not penalize you when a player drops. I thought they had fixed this but I was in several games last night (like a 2v4 capture the flag) where I decided to leave. It seems it is penalizing 5 points even though someone else already dropped. When you get into these unwinnable matches and someone rage quits then you should be able to back out without being penalized.
I am no pro at all but I do consider that I am fairly good at the game. Good to know that I am no the only one losing games so frequently. In season 3 and 4 I used to win way more games than in season 5 and it pisses me so much that it doesn't really matter if I end un being the best in the match most of the times I end up losing. I am getting teammates that do not really know how to play and it is awful. I will stay away from multiplayer for the time being and hope that firefight KOTH is more enjoyable.
I'd rather have the occasional smurf and play with ppl like me than have what we have.
one time i hit 40 kills in slayer, but next game i barely hit 10 kills as my team mates had less then 5
sometimes the SBMM can be super obvious
after the first video you made on this topic, ive slowly noticed this also happens in Overwatch 2. some matches my team stomps, the next multiple we get stomped. very few matches are even semi even in skill
Yes thank you this is one of my biggest problems with Halo and the main reason why I stop playing it and why my friends will stop playing it as well
Sbmm in social gamemodes never made sense to me since cod started it years ago, shouldn’t be in casual gamemodes so everyone can just have fun constantly, and if they don’t, then they can leave and find a different match rather than leaving and finding the same match because your “skill” is still high up
You really nailed that point about Halo being sweatier than it was in 2008. Everyone wants to be a professional gamer nowadays.
Many think getting a 2.0 kd will somehow get tits in their face.
This is very true. I can never play a game of squad battle that isn't insanely sweaty.
I redownload Infinite when season 5 first came and played it for the first time in idk, 6+ months. First match on I ended up being the best player in the lobby, and I literally thought to myself "Oh boy, how badly am I going to be punished by having a single good game".
Second match was closer, third was a match of slayer we won by 5 kills, and the fourth match I quit out of because we were getting our assholes turned inside out by the other team. It really is THAT quick and aggressive. Halo's gameplay is deep enough and has a high enough learning curve and skill ceiling that you can still have fun without doing super well (unlike other games with severe and predatory SBMM like CoD), but still, it's not fun feeling like I'm being punished for having a couple good matches every once in a blue moon. Put that shit in ranked and keep it out of pubs.
I see this a lot. I win 2 games, lose 2 to 4, then get a stupid win streak where my team and I OBLITERATE the other team 2 to 4 games in a row.
yeah as everyone else says, this is literally the main component of people not playing more. Even the featured playlist I refuse to join because its always the absolute most insane matches you can connect to and I just wanted to see the new maps lol
Completely agree with your analysis in this video! This is really important and I can say first hand it has made some of my friends and even myself at times avoid multiplayer matches like the plague! It’s almost impossible for me to get a group of my friends together nowadays to play halo multiplayer matches. They only want to play custom games! Which btw, custom games are a ton of fun rn, but it shouldn’t feel like a daunting task to play multiplayer. Very important video and great analysis!
So I believe in a system I'm calling experience based matchmaking. So in EBMM two major criteria would be looked at when grouping players together playtime and in game level. So the grouping tolerances would have to be set by the developer to ensure the system works properly. Essentially as long as people are close in ingame level and playtime , they'll be matched together. Make it so that if you perform better you level up faster taking your individual consistency in mind. Additionally smurf accounts would out level players fast and devs can set it so that early hour lobbies have stricter level similarity requirements for matchmaking to keep smurfs out of their lobbies for the most part, there is no perfect system when it comes to smurfing though. For playing with friends it should be simplified; Strict level requirements for ranked with playtime disregarded and then casual should just be an equivalency thing where as long as both teams have the same party stackage, so both having 2, 3, or 4 stacks, that's the only requirement. Partied matches might end up as chaos but at least everyone in a party has a chance to have fun instead of it just not being allowed. In regards to the flaws with SBMM I have a video with that and more details that I'd like to get your opinion on Mint. Let me know if you're not cool with me bringing that up in a comment though, I only mentioned it toward the end of the comment because I didn't want to seem like I was plugging but I will totally edit it out or remove the comment if that's the vibe you're getting.
Thanks!!! 343 has to change this, ASAP!!!
I'm just tired of getting challenges to win games, then getting matched against Optic in the off season and getting teammates who seemingly play with their feet
Thank you Mintz for keeping this subject alive. Never let it die until Halo is cured from this SBMM bullshit. MAKE SOCIAL PLAYLISTS CASUAL AGAIN
I've pretty much walked away from Halo for this reason. Solo queuing in Arena is the most painful experience ever. Since the start of the new season, I was placed D3, and it has been the most painful grind to Onyx I've ever experienced. Not only am I getting matched with solo's on my team against 4 stacks, the teammates I'm getting have no mics and are almost always incompetent to the point where I wonder how they're actually in the same skill group. The game's ranked experience leaves so much to be desired. It's not fun, it's not rewarding and it places you into unwinnable games almost always. I'll be taking a break from Halo until they address this issue. Oh - and extraction is the worst, most broken game type I've ever played.
The solution to this is for 343 to remove placement matches and make all of ranked CSR Based (Or true Skill Based Matchmaking with strict guidelines to who you can play with).
And then just like Halo 2 and Halo 3, Halo will be more about "Grinding for skill rank" than it will be for anything else.
Extraction is horrible in it's current state; it was adjusted to be "less competitive" and I truly think a large push against competition in Halo had negatively impacted this game post it's launch.
This video was regards to social, which is the funniest part, since social has no matchmaking parameters to find players, only when balancing...and that's also public knowledge.
The ranked experience could be significantly improved upon, and should be the focus by 343 industries, not "social". The problem, however, is that 343 will not focus on this until the Halo Community is either ignored by 343 entirely, or fulfilled to where they no longer have a complaint (But that'll never happen, it's always a goal post shift for them).
But like I mentioned: A resolution is to really add upward of 10 separate ranked playlists with the same settings as the current HCS season (when applicable), with adjusted precision starting weapon (Alternate between BR & Bandit Evo in non-arena playlists) to provide unique variety. And then remove all "MMR" from Ranked, make it all CSR-driven and progressive.
Utilize the MMR in TrueSkill 2 to adjust "social" back to launch state, where it was balanced and had no issues with team imbalance. And consolidate most "social" playlists into a few selected playlists.
And presto. Halo Infinite has returned to hundreds of thousands of concurrent players, with only those "looking not to sweat" in social, with those "looking to sweat" in the numerous ranked offerings. With ranked being a more linear progressive skill oriented matching, which has an affiliated progression solution attached. And in addition, "social" has that alternative "hero" grind that would still be provided to them...with the exception of potentially allowing chief to be purchased, instead (without the color) in the store for, say, $20.
I remember watching the stream where they said "halo has competitive at its core" which just simply wasn't true. Competitive is a big part of halo now and I am fine with that. But from our perspective, it seems like some people working for 343 have a fundamental misunderstanding of what makes halo halo when it comes to your average unranked match. SBMM still has a place, but like you said, it needs to be looser. almost every game is a sweatfest. Sometimes I am in the mood for that, but if I am, I would rather go to ranked than have to deal with it all the time in casual.
I played a ridiculously good set of Husky Raid matches where I out performed my expected number of kills, and every game since then I've been straight garbage
The competitive gaming scene is really the greatest threat to fun in modern multiplayer gaming. Non-ranked modes really shouldn’t be forced into this type of restrictive match making. I understand ranked and E Sports, but I just want to have fun in Halo when I’m playing casually (which is how I play exclusively). I don’t even care if I lose, its just not fun if I go from dominating completely in one game to getting absolutely destroyed while my team stands there.
Completely agree with your points but holy shit man those last few clips were wild, had to rewatch those parts again just to actually listen to your points since I was so invested in the gameplay lmao
I encountered this bad last week. Won 3 games in a row only to the lose the next 7 in a row. I will say though I have previously liked the matchmaking as I like when the games are close and they usually are quite close. What gets me peeved is when I'm in a game and carrying the team for the most part only to lose anyway. I imagine as you have previously described that it is easier to place a single great player on a team with mediocre players than to find a handful of good players all evenly ranked. Regardless I do advocate for sbmm.
I think the reason for SBMM being so extreme is because of how low the player count was prior to the games season 5 update, it's as if the settings have been modified to make sure players could get into games since the player base was so slim, but now with this larger influx of players its becoming way more noticed, I think they will adjust these settings dependent on player base.