The lack of fire safety is the biggest failure imo; just one incident could result in loss of life, a huge lawsuit, and an indefinite shutdown of the system. Musk really dropped the ball on this one.
@@DumbAssPro717 All there is is a regular old fire extinguisher at the entrance of the tunnel. If you slow down the video enough it does look like there are doors throughout the tunnel which may be emergency exits. They're not clearly labeled though, that in itself I'm pretty sure is illegal.
@@LeDank Subways also have far greater capacity, far better power efficiency, and only require one or two drivers per train (and are far easier to make autonomous if you wanted to). But as the video said, the route this runs on is so short that they could have just stuck in a moving sidewalk and called it a day. There’s no need to even bother with a train system, let alone this overengineered and pointless solution that exists purely to say “hey, it’s not actually a subway, so it’s cool and futuristic.”
It's not about skipping the infrastructure but integrating the infrastructure into the car. They are self powered and don't need tracks. They also have safety features like airbags, crumple zone and an HVAC filter if there is a fire.
@@benoitgermanier8815 not too sure how well a HVAC system in the car is going to work in the middle of one of those tunnels when one of the cars go up in flames.
It's crazy to me how this was approved and built. Not only is it a huge safety hazard, it is incredibly inefficient. Here in Hamburg there are Metro and Underground Stations that run 3-4 lanes with intervals as short as 2minutes. Each safely transporting a few hundred passangers per train. For example if you wanna go from the Mainstation to the western district "Altona" there are 3 tunnel lanes: S1, S2, S3, aswell as 2 regular ground lanes: S11 & S31. These run on 10minute intervals, with 6 carts (each cart having ca. 75-100 seats) with about 3minutes apart from the Tunnel lanes and 5minutes for the ground lanes. Annual passanger load for our Metro was about 245 million passangers in 2017 and 280 Million for our "S-Bahn" in 2016. But hey, it's not a flashy LED fire hazard tunnel that cost 55mil $ and transport 350k people a year, i guess
@@andrewfranklin4429 1: Many subway Systems have higher capacity than you assume. 2: Those stations are not 5 times as close as an average subway station. 3: Even if your logic were right it’s still less efficient than a subway system. 4: It says a lot that you need this much overthinking to find a reason why the loop doesn’t suck.
@@hi.2842 After scrolling through the comment sections on many videos debunking the Vegas Loop, I've identified "Andrew Franklin" (previously "Roc Wurst") and "Martin Hill" as two suspect accounts. They seem to be the exact same person using three different accounts to spam the same marketing hype. I also nominate "Alan Goldstein" as a third suspect. These three people seem to be targeting mostly early comments or the ones that get a ton of likes. A common trend with Andrew Franklin goes like this: - Andrew will post some BS - Then another user (let's call them "User X") will reply with something that boils down to simply "you're wrong" - Andrew will trick User X into opening a can of worms by replying with something like "wrong in what way [first word of previous user's username]? ..." - User X will then (reluctantly) pick apart the bullshit that Andrew posted - Andrew will then reply to User X with more BS - This is then followed by extremely long back-and-forth arguments consisting mostly of users destroying Andrew Franklin's BS while Andrew themself constantly doubles down on it regardless of how many times they've been proven wrong before. It's also interesting how, in many of their comments, these users address people by the first word in their username. Another red flag for me is the fact that they repeatedly copypaste the same crap to almost everyone they reply to, quite often doing so multiple times on the same thread. There's also "Kevin Bailey" (and probably a few others) who is another fairly well-known shill but I'm not sure if they are the same as the previous two or three. They're not as rampant, but I've seen them many times when I sort the comments on a video about the Loop by "new". Kevin is no less egregious than those three because even though they're not "in your face" about the bullshit they're pushing they will often say things to try to hide the fact that they're shilling. But seriously, if you have to resort to massive numbers of logical fallacies to "get your point across", you don't have any good points. UPDATE May 2022: At this point, I strongly suspect that these accounts are AI chatbots, given the downright inhuman nature of the way they do things.
I promised you guys a mobile phone with that would cost ten thousand dollars but would have a holographic display and allow for wireless transmission of text just by thinking about it. We decided to simplify this, for the benefit of the consumer, and now we present a pair of cans connected by a string.
To be fair they simplified the loop system but the long term goal for throughput and top speed remains the same: 4000 cars per hour and 150Mph top speed. If you can get rid of the monorail and get the same specs it's just common sense.
That might end up being the only way these tunnels end up being usable is as bike-only roads. That is the only way they could redeem this thing without massively redesigning it
oh no... he will be floating through space slowly dissolving as small pieces of debris chip away at his frozen body because he pissed off the wrong person with actual knowlegde about the spaceship and its airlocks while on his way finally abandoning earth. It will be a good day for humanity.
Plus, since these cars are only used in the loop system itself, they could even just have added a little tracker thing to them and to the street they built. But even that was too much.
AI driving will eventually be perfected, I just don't think Tesla will be the ones to do it. It will be created by real engineers and programmers, not Elon Musk, and traditional auto manufacturers will buy the tech and put it into cars. With any luck, it will be a big open source system that anyone can use or modify.
As a logistics guy: self driving in tunnels or known areas is absolutely standard stuff. So even compared to similar technology (not compared to useful transportation solutions for people as most do), this is pretty bad.
I cannot fathom how anyone sees this "loop" without realizing its literally just a shitty tunnel with leds? Do all reporters have stock in tesla? Why do they keep covering for this obvious scammer?
"So... how about we build a direct route to the convention center?" Las Vegas: "Okay." "It'll be underground and be pretty fast." Las Vegas: "Yeah, keep going..." "It'll be on rails and have a high capacity for people." Las Vegas: "Ew, no. NO TRAINS!" "Alright, how about we pave the tunnel with asphalt and put cars through it..." Las Vegas: "Hmm... maybe..." "And outfit it with neon lights?" Las Vegas: "BRILLIANT!"
I don't get why Americans hate trains. They seem brilliant to me. Pretty straightforward, great for mass transportation, usually only more expensive to build than roads, but way cheaper to maintain... personally I think no means of transportation has succeeded in being better than trains.
@@Corredor1230 Go check out the shenanigans that take place on New York trains or any large American city for that matter. Americans don’t know how to behave or clean up after themselves. The results are public transportation being a horrible experience at times. And I could not imagine how it would be in Vegas. Mind you that cities nickname is Sin city. There would be countless crimes taking place on public trains in Las Vegas.
@@Corredor1230 I honestly have no clue. I’ve never even been on any form of public transportation. But that could definitely be the reason. That or there’s just too many crackheads concentrated in one area lmao.
@@CursedRaichu Lol, well, there are plenty of crackheads in cities like Paris and Madrid too, but they manage somehow. So I think that it's just about giving proper funding to public transport. If you ever visit Europe or East Asia, you'll see it's definitely possible.
If someone gets a heart-attack or anything of that sort, they'll just straight up die, cause there is no reliable way of helping them. Well unless the car is self driving, hah
Well the La Vegas Convention Centre may have just introduced its newest food concession. Because one of those vehicles ignites in a tunnel you’re going to have BBQ Human. Finger licking good
@@andrewfranklin4429 stop being a grovelling fanboy. Really. Your comparing a system that can carry 1,000 people per train with 4 seater cars. Hilarious. Oh and they must be clumsy in NYC - because I can guarantee in most of the worlds metros people are not falling or being pushed in front of speading trains. Crowd stampedes?? Wtf. Terrorists? These are what you think are selling points. Are you 5 years old? By the way must be exhaustion popping around making all these comments over the last hour on the same thread defending the system.
Imagine the drivers' mental psyche when they have to face down those trippy tunnel every single day. Can't be that healthy for sure. Talk about literal tunnel vision.
From being an Uber driver for 1.5 years I can't imagine doing this for 40 hours a week. It's extremely distracting talking to strangers while you are driving and every person who gets in this is going to be blabbing while you navigate that tiny tunnel hundreds of times a day.
This is going to go down as one of the world's stupidest feats of "engineering". Like any normal person would see all of the flaws in this system but with enough hype silicon valley tech bros will eat up anything
Elon in 5 years: "We simplified this a lot. It's basically just a couple of pictures made by Ingenuity that we show to our Starship guests. This is way more profound than it sounds..."
We already knew it would be a joke, but in the end, it turned into a dangerous joke. The puny fire extinguisher is an april's fool in itself. I also love the little mirror on the wall, so the autopilot can see backwards....
Yup and I have a feeling the super saturated hyper colors will worsen or induce vertigo. Marines in boot camp have to run an underground tunnel on the shooting range from one end to the other that's 500+ meters long and it's very easy to get sucked into the sides and crash and burn😁. And we had more space running single file in those tunnels than the cars do in the "Hyperloop". Hope no one gets hurt.
Very difficult to drive through a tunnel that narrow - even once, let alone on constant repeat. Total concentration required at all times... And what happens when you need to take a pee?!
Personal Rapid Transit projects from the early 1970s managed to be way higher capacity, energy efficient, faster, safer, cheaper to operate, and ACTUALLY AUTONOMOUS. With a very simple computer and rails.
@Raj Nadar They actually mentioned that it's normally a 15 minute walk in the promotional video. That is for about 1.3 kilometers. Most people walk about three or for kph, but l suppose if you were strolling and eating ice cream, taking pictures etc then it could maybe take twice as much. If you were trapped in a burning car in a tunnel and you can't open the doors it might take even more of your time.
@@Corredor1230 1 km would be about a ten minute walk; not far enough to be worth getting into a car unless you have difficulty walking, or the weather is bad.
I live in a place (Dortmund, Germany) with a functioning, helpful subway system (in spite of the flooding and coal mining history of the entire area) and when I saw this the very first time, I said nothing, showed my gf the picture and waited for her reaction. She's basically the neutral observer in this, almost no interest in engineering, Infrastructure and technology. She said "oh good, a less effective, less safe, less useful subway. This is why I don't wanna go to Vegas, it's the dumbest place on earth"
Imagine one of those Teslas catching fire (that never happens , right?) , no way to escape, no fire suppression of any kind, no ventilation, no way to evacuate safely...what can go wrong???
"The Boring Company" is the perfect name. Driving around that circle 8 hours a day has got to be one of the most boring jobs on the planet. That in itself is going to cause safety issues.
Fair enough. Depends on how big and obvious the crash is. he's literally trump in the 80s and 90s. except that he's not putting his name on real estate but on futuristic sounding niche products touted as revolutionary
Just imagine this, I live in London and they spend millions here modernising the tracks, building high speed rail/underground systems, making road tunnels, hell the eurotunnel literally connects France to England, it transports goods, cars and people and yet it runs a train. The cars load on a train and drivers can get out and relax in the food carriage. This is beyond stupid. They built a fuvcking zebra crossing for 4400 people/hr that crosses the track like WHAT!? If Elon was in Europe he would be either be heavily fined (UK, France, Italy etc) or worse jailed (Germany, Netherlands).
@@ETM2024 hahaha on the DLR while you posted this. Definitely DLR gets way less credit than due. Its even more interesting than some underground lines. Also, you get mobile network and the views are just the best out of all London lines.
@@chiefponcho Perfect 😂 It's been a while since I was last in London but I thought the DLR was an excellent bit of engineering when I first discovered it and still wish we employed a similar system here (Glasgow), and loved the view travelling around it.
@@benoitgermanier8815 Unless they were using clown cars i doubt they could pull off 4,400 people per hour. Also subways easily carry 10 times the amount of people per hour for only a fraction of what it'd cost to run the loop
We had the fire in the Düsseldorf Airport exactly 25 years ago. This forced a number of new laws about safety in such buildings. I'm sure this loop would never see a passenger in Germany. It wouldn't even be build unless a safety concept is proven and accepted.
I would be interested to hear what the tesla workers in California say when they see German tesla workers making twice as much in a unionised factory with qualified safety officers and union reps looking out for them
@@stephenirving1737 Germany has a lot of laws about worker rights, safety and such but Tesla don't have to join the association of car makers&steel and the general nation wide agreement with the union. They can pay what they want just like Amazon is doing this right now. In this case, the workers can build a union or join an existing and start a strike when ever they want (even with just a few people). They can't get fired for this. At Amazon, there are only few workers attending those strikes so Amazon can live with it at the moment. It will be interesting to see how Tesla will handle this. My prediction is, that Elon will not talk with the unions and try to keep them out. On the other hand, a car manufacturer has so many specific work areas, that a few people can stop the whole production. The German working culture is different and if Elon don't adapt to this he will be out just like Walmart that failed miserably.
It amazes me that this was ever given fire certificate. Even when it was still a CGI or a plan submitted to the local planning mandarins, didn't anyone think to ask "what's you're emergency evacuation strategy?" before signing off the consents. Perhaps a USA (better still Vegas) based reader could enlighten us on what the culture, if not the local law, is on such matters.
I think there were some under the table payments for the Las Vegas officials and the fire chief to look the other way, nothing else makes sense, this is just a tragedy waiting to happen anybody with some basic intelligence can see that.
Maybe the "fire suppression" needs a bit more examination. Musk fans claim "it has sprinklers" and if one examines the on ride video, there is "something" running along the crown of the tunnels and every so often something that runs around in an annular ring. Perhaps thee are their sprinkles systems. However, I am surprised there are no smoke vents, emergency walkways, egress to surface, fans, etc. Something else no one seems to have mentioned thus far, is the lack of access for anyone mobility impaired. Good luck if you are in a wheel chair or have impaired vision for example.
This is supposed to be your mic-drop moment? A lot of the money he's been securing for garbage like this have been given to him by government. Allowing them complete control with more regulations doesn't stop people like Elon Musk.
@@pumpkin6429 And what's your amazing alternative to government regulations? To just let him do whatever the hell he wants in a Ayn Rand Libertarian paradise without the government? The problem isn't government regulations. The problem is that the United states is a government tainted by corporate corruption and bribery which is a result of unfettered capitalism. Most countries don't let corporations openly bribe politicians in the guise of donations, yet here we are where it's commonplace. The problem is there's not enough regulations on corporations and their ability to influence, and taint politics to suit their own personal interests. All removing the government does is speed up how fast they're going to fuck everyone over to hit those profit margins. It's that the government is tainted by big donors like Elon Musk that this kind of shit happens, as though he didn't influence them choosing his design at all. It's corporations influencing the government, with the government throwing out a few half-assed hand-slappy stipulations to pretend like they're doing anything besides sponsoring these kind of people, when the facade wears thin.
the Channel Tunnel (or Chunnel) runs for 50km under the English Channel crossing at the Strait of Dover. it consists of two 25ft main tunnels, and a 16ft service tunnel, and carries 20 million passengers, 1.5 million tonnes of freight, 2.5 million cars, 51000 coaches, and 1.6 million lorries per year. it cost $30 billion dollars and was completed approximately 30 years ago. Elon Musk takes $50 million dollars to dig a couple of 12ft wide tunnels under a parking lot. he delivers late and forgets to put in fire suppression equipment, proper ventilation, and an alternate means of access. and is promptly hailed as a visionary genius. in fact, he's Times Man of the Year. honestly, i'm not even sure what world we're living in anymore.
@@animatewithdermot Let's hope nobody accidentally breaks a bottle then. As if that's likely at all... in Vegas... in a system marketed primarily towards tourists...
Ha ha you thinks that’s bad, just wait till you think about hyper loop and a massive vacuum tube. One ☝️ bullet. One ☝️ cracked seal. One earth tremor... the list goes on
@@morphman86 yeah i worked in a big uk train station and dealing with gangs of drunken revellers was a nightmare. let's hope there's none of them in vegas lol...
@@papalegba6759 Do the doors lock under motion? Pretty easy to scrape the sides of that tunnel. Or maybe just lean out the window and hurl all over the sides of the tunnel lmao
I'd have to believe that the LVCC could have built an cable-supported tramway for a fraction of what the LVCC Loop cost, with total transit time not much slower, and a lot lower labor cost. It probably could have been inside the convention center, which would have allowed visitors a birds-eye view of exhibits they might be interested in seeing up close.
An APM system would have probably been even easier. Lots of manufacturers to choose from, with plenty of proven solutions from, I don't know, every other international airport. Could have saved some money as well if they allowed it to be elevated.
thing is, they did this for the clout and the headlines. also as a way to draw in musk fanboys who will want to "experience the future with their own eyes". that doesnt work if you do something more reliable, safe and afordable...
@@marcosdheleno yeah, but it's honestly silly that Musk didn't just design a "Tesla train" and use it to build up hype for Hyperloop in the process. Of course, then we'd see that battery-powered EVs don't scale up as well at they like to pretend they will
Suppose it could be used for signalling to the drivers to help them maintain a safe distance. Or warning of a fires n the tunnel... But yeah they've just got them set to disco mode in all the promos.
@@joinedupjon Can you imagine driving through a narrow tunnel that changes its colors every second for 8 hours a day? I actually felt a little uncomfortable just by looking at the screen.
I'd be interested to hear what professionals working with fire safety has to say about this tunnel. Assuming the air moves in one direction by fans and assuming that you can actually exit your vehicle in case of an emergency, if there is a vehicle fire in there, the smoke would travel along the pipe in one direction and people could escape the other. But if there are multiple cars in the tunnel, the cars in front of the fire will suddenly be enveloped in smoke and would have to hold their breath while they exit the tunnel without smashing into the cars in front. I imagine visibility could become zero quickly in such a case, making a safe exit very hard. I really hope that these things will be considered by the authorities in the area before rather than after a tragic incident happens.
I didn't notice any tunnel ventilation fans.. If the Las Vegas Building & Safety Dept actually signed off on Musk's permit, they share liability for incurring damages. Someone in that department is either very stupid or received a disgusting amount of money and has retired to live in the Bahamas.
@@bosoerjadi2838 My speculation is that the ventilation is managed from mid station, that it is kept at a positive or negative pressure relative to the outdoors. Though which such small cross sectional area that pressure have to also overcome the entries for people and such which would have way less resistance.
@@miklov I agree vid's don't do the actual engineering justice. Presumably the venting is managed but it's such a meager installation this could be handled by some relatively low grade hardware at the center station, and I bet that got undersizd, lol. First accident in the tunnel could still be a catastrophe though.
@David Orozco Do you see any vents in the tunnels? Also, simply having vents is not good enough, you need to force the air one or the other way. In regular tunnels you have air pumps in the ceiling. A fire in a regular tunnel is pretty bad, a fire in this tunnel while occupied by multiple vehicles is probably a tragedy.
I just watched your video again and the lack of any safety measures is terrifying. As soon as something goes wrong, and one of those cars combusts, everyone in that tunnel who can't race out of there to the next offload point is going to die of smoke inhalation. It's amazing that this project was greenlit at all. That loop is a deathtrap.
I visited LVCC on April 2022 during NAB 2022 and I rode the Vegas loop many times during this visit. Couple corrections and validations: 1. Yes, the IDEA of loop is great and valid - when you're on trade/show, you're in suit, you don't have time and you don't want to sweat, running from west to east hall. Believe me. 2. west station doesn't have and doesn't need pedestrian crossing - pedestrians come to the station between the entrances to the tunnels 3. As for April 2022, there is still no fire/accident equipment 4. No, there is no sightseeing on this 15 minute walk from west to south hall. Just concrete and heat. 5. Yes, cars still have drivers and still are slow 6. Wait time is about a minute 7. You didn't add to the cost, the employees working at stations that are hired to: point you to the car; supervise you don't get hit by tesla car. Great idea, bad execution.
agreed. It's good for getting people around a convention, and it's a good tourist attraction (which is the whole point of vegas). But it's terrible for traditional transportation needs, and therefore won't ever replace typical metros.
Probably because Tesla has the highest Euro NCAP safety rating, one accident every 4.19 million miles driven on autopilot (versus 484'000 miles for the US auto average) and one fire every 205 million miles driven (versus 19 million miles for the US auto average)
@@benoitgermanier8815 oh, I didn't know, that EuroNCAP is performing tests for poorly designed tunnels with no room to vent, escape or evacuate if the safest car ever existed will go flame. And, of course, I'd like to see comparison with other tunnel transportation solutions, like subway/underground - you know, avarage speed, passenger capacity, cost efficiency and, of course, safety. Or even put an electric bus in line, for better comparison. But even this is not the whole picture without detail: what Elon Musk claimed while presenting such stupid idea with underground cars for cars, traveling 160 mph and what public got IRL - with 62 Teslas riding somewhat 35 mph in avarage, and carrying less passengers than electric bus, while costs twice as much (comparison is done for car price/bus price, tunnel not included). And all of that is done with public money, LOL.
@@Immanatum I don't think he ever promised to reach 155mph for this tunnel... But yeah, we need to wait for the Maxwell dry coating for fireproof batteries. Hopefully the HEPA filter is enough to keep people safe if there is a fire.
@@Immanatum Long term goal is 4000 vehicles per hour so 28000 people per hour for 7 seats. That's about the same as othe transportation solutions. But it's not really the efficiency that matters, it's better to have two small tunnels than a big one because then you have more stations, so less walk.
@@benoitgermanier8815 it is sounds more like highly cocained trip, than solution IRL. 4 000 cars, 7 passengers per car (really? Where is the driver? Where are places for two additional passengers?) Currently, avarage price for 62 Teslas in total is ~$2.1 mln, while electric bus Volvo 7900 costs ~$1 mln. In case if this amphetamine dream comes true, it will cost more than $135 mln. Even extremely rough calculations shows that one Volvo 7900 can carry up to 135 passengers, per hour (in avarage) ~15 000 passengers, which is ~20 Tesla cars (or, more realistically 4 passengers + driver - 34 cars). So, 4000 cars with 28 000 passengers per hour is ridiculous. 2 busses need two drivers. They will ride with the same speed - 35 mph, won't fatally jam the traffic - if something happens in case of 62 Teslas in the tunnel - if something happens to one of them in the tunnel - how many cars will stuck in the tunnel? Which has highly questionable design with poor ventilation, has no room for anything except Tesla car (in case of emergency - passenger got heart attack or so - what to do?). To summarize: enormous amount of 4000 cars, which carry less passengers per hour than 2 buses, inside the tunnel which is done with all possible violations is a bad idea. Really bad.
I just learned that 25 more miles of the "Las Vegas Loop" have been approved aprox. 2 months ago. I don't know if I should be horrified that Las Vegas authorities have approved the possibly larges crematory in the world, or looking forward to CSS doing an update on this insanity project...
@@ryhanzfx1641 Theres a podcast called "Well there's your problem". And one of their common sayings is "cars bad trains good". Because car centric development sucks. It's a waste of land, it creates gridlock, it's paves over the world where instead people and/or plants could find a place. Electric cars are a little better than combustion engine cars because they don't pollute at the point where the car is but they still suck. Individual transport just isn't the answer. Btw. Trucks for anything but short range suck too. Maybe even more.
I knew this was a insanely stupid idea, yet every video I watch about it somehow reveals even more about just how kind bogglingly terrible of a project this was I swear a kindergarten classroom could plan something better than this
Anyone who's ever watched those videos about deaths caused by bad engineering or safety oversights can easily see this is a tragedy waiting to happen. That's assuming it even gets used, but it doesn't take a genius to see this will get backed up very quickly if it operates anywhere near capacity. All this money and hype to avoid a 15 minute walk, and they have the nerve to claim it's "environmentally friendly"...
The question is what will happen first, some pedestrian getting run over by a tesla driver that tries to fullfil his impossible quota (probably near that crosswalk), or some tesla, after months of perpetual use around the clock from 100% usable charge to 0% going up in flames inside one of these tunnels. Well we also have the overworked driver crash option or the wildcard bet of someone going mad from the RBG bullshit disco lights. Well, since covid is still a thing Musk will probably get away with it for another couple of months before the first proper coventions will be held again.
Well, first current autopilot has one accident every 4.19 million miles versus 484'000 miles for the US average. Those cars are also the safest according to Euro NCAP. Then the LVCC is small, but the Las Vegas loop will be 6 miles from one side to the other. That's definitively not a 15 minutes walk.
@@ignispurgatorius5297 There is one Tesla fire every 205 million miles versus 19 million miles for the US average. It's extremely safe. They are also working on a million miles battery.
Just you wait until there's a fault in the Chinesium control unit, and the lights begin strobing frantically, giving people epileptic seizures and headaches.
Human's walk at 5km per hour. It would take a human 12 minutes to walk that 1 kilometre with no requirement for electricity. A normal fit human can run at 5 minutes per kilometre so this car is faster than a walking human but slower than an average human's jogging pace. Revolutionary
@@benoitgermanier8815 the documentation from the company actually states one lap is 5 minutes and 50 seconds so that is 2km. Lets say its 3 minues for the 1km. Add in passenger inress/egress times and queueing for available car that would take much longer. Let's say its 1 minute in and 1 minute out. Nothing additional for delays or queuing. That is 5 minutes. A good jogging human pace. Bicycle is faster. It would be much easier and no cost to just walk that distance. The NYC subway Q train takes 2 minutes to get from 72nd street to 86th street (900 metres). This system is not faster than the subway
@@StrayCatInTheStreets Just looked at the video "Las Vegas Loop Tesla Testing at Las Vegas Convention Center" 10:42 -> 12:41 so two minutes 13:05 -> 14:07 so one minute So if you go directly from the first to the last station it's about 3 minutes.
@@benoitgermanier8815 Three minutes in a tunnel with non-existent safety measures, plus waiting for pedestrians at the crossing, and for a car to become available. Or you can walk and arrive a minute later.
@@smaakjeks Yeah, but this tunnel will be connected to the Vegas extension which should be 6 miles from one side to the other. This is just the beginning.
The dumbest thing is it's so small it's basically pointless, and I'm sure if you looked at the actual spots people are coming from/going to, walking will probably be faster than it would realistically take to go through the hassle of using this system
@@jorgesmith2000 vs waiting at the outside collection points? You only get to wait underground if you are leaving the central station. And, I'm sorry but temperature and relative humidity does not impact time and space. It may *feel* like an hour, to you, but a 15 minute walk is still 15 minutes, although I concede walking anywhere in America is unpleasant. Imagine a 50 million dollar above ground walk path, call it HyperPath! It would be beautiful and with the annual budget of the loop you could spray gold flaked cooling water on people as they walk!
Making a public transportation system for a fixed rout, especially in tunnels and for that using cars is so fucking stupid that I lack words for it. Goddammit, just build a regular subway and you'll easily fulfill the transportation need with much less drivers (if any), no batteries that can burn and everything is simply better.
@@benoitgermanier8815 This is not scalable for longer trips. The tunnel is too small and congestion will happen to all stations, because you have to brake and still will be slow and anyway is slow at 30MPH
@@AurelAvramescu This loop has no straight line so it's quite slow but their target is still 155mph for the loop system. The Vegas extension will have a 4 miles straight line. We will see what maximum speed they can achieve.
A recent reddit post about "Why not build a train?" makes this statement about safety... "LVCC Loop satisfies National Fire Protection Association code (NFPA-130) for fixed guideway transit. Stations are less than 2500' feet apart and serve as exits to the surface, so no exits are required within each tunnel segment as per NFPA-130 6.3.1.4. Within the tunnel there is nearly three feet of space on either side of a Model 3 for passenger egress, including 18" of road surface on either side. Per NFPA-130 6.3.3.3 the 112" wide roadway can serve as the evacuation route which is normally clear and free of obstructions and touch hazards (such as a third rail)."
Tow trucks are a things of the past. I present to you the new invention of Musk called pushing the car with your hands. What do you mean its not efficient!?
Still blows my mind to this day that this guy is still able to kick the can down the road and continues to majestically pull the rabbit out of the hat (next year, it was never intended to be full self driving, the hyperloop will be ready next year, your car will be a robotaxi that can earn you 40% of the sales price you paid per year). The burning question is, how much longer can it last before the bottom falls out?
I just regret not watching Common Sense Skeptic before I invested $3k into Tesla. Now I know I will never see that money ever again. Anytime anyone brings up Musk I always direct them to this channel, hopefully it will open their eyes as it did mine. Keep up the great work.
@@EricLDunn I'll admit I'm long TSLA for now, and have been for a while. I keep watching for the "Theranos reveal" moment. The Nikola moment.... The biggest draw on TSLA in the past year was GME stonks! The stock has nothing to do with underlying business here and I suspect its the same money/mentality that keeps pushing TSLA higher made stocktips a thing. How far can things go? It looks like it might just be slow attrition. Dustinbins keep blowing up in Boca, loops keep coming in at 30mph, neuralink... Starlink will be interesting. His referral program ensures there are armies of 'influencers' pushing his positive narrative, meanwhile his stans provide cover and purchasing power to push stonks higher!! One analyst says it can go to $2000; buy now!! Musk can then reissue higher and higher, not to mention his compensation package was linked to STONK price!
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@@StinkPickle4000 the P/E for Tesla is about 1100 (!) right now. It’s the biggest car company in the world, that sells 1/40 of the cars. How..?
@ Muskateers, or stans, or the fans, or the base, they keep bidding price up. Its not based on business performance. Their "influencers" have convinced people that SpaceX is connected to TSLA, and that buying TSLA is like buying into our "Ludicrous Future" who wouldn't want the future? It's a wonderful future that meant not having to sacrifice a lifestyle to fix climate change just had to buy the right car!
Assuming those dimensions are correct, that shows how little margin there is to meet the NFPA's requirement for the 'roadway to serve as the evacuation route that is normally clear and free of obstructions.' Notice also that this section of the NFPA pertains to "fixed guideway transit" and probably was not intended to apply to a road tunnel with cars that can easily end up jammed together sideways in a collision, easily blocking both the vehicle exit doors and the "18 inches of road surface on either side"
The other fire/medical safety issue which seems like it will be problem is egressing the vehicle while it is in the tunnel. Maybe by eyes are playing tricks on me. but those walls looks so close to the car, it doesn't seem like the doors can open if somebody needs to get out while it is in the tunnel...
Musk believes that in a few years, autonomus driving will be possible in like 90% of the roads -- yet he can't even solve autonomus driving for a simple 1 lane single way tube...
To be fair they don't use LIDAR so they have to train the AI first to recognise the environment. They also need to find how far they can push an human driven system to set a new standard and then try to beat that with self driving.
To be incredibly, unreasonably generous to Mr. Musk: Peak efficiency in this system would be achieved if a car took more than one load of passengers on a round trip (and it's sensible to calculate with more than one passenger group per round trip, as people are unlikely to go back to their starting station in one ride). Going from A to B, then B to C, then C to B again then B to A, same car, different passengers on each station. So, on top of the 5:30 round trip driving time, there'd be 4x 2 minutes of loading and unloading, leading to 13:30 per lap of four transports (instead of 7:30 for a lap with one). That would mean only 4.44 laps per hour, but a total of 17.77 transport "incidents" per hour, which, using 4 passengers per vehicle, would mean 71.11 passengers transferred per car per hour, and thus 4409 passengers in total per hour at 62 vehicles (I promise, I did not try to get to 4400, it just happened). Of course, those numbers go down quickly if less passengers are taken or rides are from A to C or C to A. And it operates on the assumption that there's basically equal demand for transport from each station to each station at all times. And it disregards the limits of the loading bays, or the stated issues with cars having to be taken out to recharge. That said, the whole system is, of course, utter garbage, and almost any other solution would have been better, even before the safety concerns are taken into account. It's a scam, even if my calculative curiousity had me plug in higher efficiency numbers and thus probably finding a likely source for the 4400 passengers per hour claim, which may appear to some as if I'm a Musk fanboy defending this farce. I am not.
@@james.restall But unless you 'force' people to fill up a car before it leaves, you are more likely than not to have less than full capacity each trip.
Same thing I thought as I was watching the video, that's probably how the 4400pph came about in the first place, that number is at least theoretically possible. But even then, cars are *the worst possible system* for fast loading and unloading, especially when disabled people have to go in and out, so even at peak efficiency there will be hiccups for people going in and out, unless all the passengers have been trained (which is probably what happened when Musk certified that result). A well designed system is one that is resilient to hiccups and can run as close as possible to peak efficiency four as long as possible. This system is designed so that it requires maximum coordination to achieve minimum efficiency, costs more in building and has significantly higher running cost than any "conventional" solution. Truly a masterpiece in engineering.
oh wow, if that's how they came up with 4400, then it's way worse than I though. and if 4400 is more like total system ridership then the actual capacity is 1100 passenger/hr/direction? i'm going to laugh at them even harder now
@@andrewfranklin4429 So you're comparing a theoretical calculation (you're replying to me, not to the video itself) that explicitly ignores station capacity (assuming it to be unlimited) to actual station capacity usage of other systems, considering aspects of the loop as an advantage that are explicitly conditional in that calculation, such as: All vehicles filled to max at all times (which is less likely if there's a multitude of endpoints) and every passenger getting off at the very next station they entered in, and demand being equally distributed across the entire system at all times. I'm not convinced.
That tunnel is so small it looks claustrophobic. There's no way the concept vehicle, which looks like people could stand up in, could fit in the tunnel.
Knowing Musk I bet these drivers are paid absolute shit. I'm actually amazed the city let him build this deathtrap that looks like a set reject from clockwork orange with disco ball lighting. At least you'll look super tacky and vapourwave in your dying moments.
The moment when a technology that exists for centuries would be million times better then this truly Boring Tesla tunnel. It is called metro (underground): - No AI is needed to be automated; - Scalable & flexible; - No need to stop for charging - electricity goes through rails; - Way safer.
I wonder whether they will be exempt from having to use seat belts, like mass public transport is. It's regular cars, so it is hard to see why... that will be hugely inconvenient, the older and more obese people are, for such a short trip. When I visited my parents last Xmas, I had to help my father strap in in his own fucking car because it took him so long... it would be funny if this project dies by safety regulation :)
What's actually disgusting is that no one in authority has demanded a proof of concept of any of the hyperloop or TBC claims. Taxi stands exist all over the world. Figuring out the max theoretical capacity per taxi spot is simple. Observing the maximum real world flow at the old Laguardia Terminal 1 taxi stand would be simple. Demand proof of how any proposed system would be better. In the case of the TBC loop, for the price of a couple miles of asphalt a demonstration system could be running on the surface. The fact no one demanded such a demonstration really shows incompetence.
@@Bushprowler Hype interests the students I suppose. But a proper research project would be working on a technology demonstration of the most useful aspect first. So where are the 300mph pods that could be used and then improved by the tube system?
@@Bushprowler This crap is happening everywhere. Fools and their money are soon parted. The sad reality is that a person could have the cure for cancer, but would not make it happen because they can't sell it. Science is a hard skill to learn. Marketing and hyping is a monetarily more valuable skill.
@@commonsenseskeptic Assuming that you can actually open the car doors. Right now I'm wondering if you would be able to leave the car inside of the tunnel without climbing through the trunk.
@@commonsenseskeptic Was wondering about the tight spacing of cars. Should one break down would the one behind have enough time to break? Chances of pileup? Even at 35mph, 136 feet is break distance. Would the cars in the tunnel be far apart enough? And in the event of a collision, chances of car doing an Evergiven and wedging into tunnel sides? Christ, the cavalier attitude to human life is criminal.
Now that I've taken the time to look at the plan for the larger "Vegas Loop" scheme ("a 29-mile tunnel network connecting 51 stations throughout the resort corridor"), as opposed to the currently operational part, which is the "Las Vegas Convention Center Loop" it's pretty obvious that this system will never be able to routinely achieve the claimed 100+ mph speeds. It looks like there are only two segments more than a mile long. The primary advantages of a Personal Rapid Transit system over larger capacity transit are: more frequent (nearly on-demand) departure times, and potentially faster transit times because individual vehicles don't have to stop at any of the intermediary stations.
@@verynice5574 That's a good point. However you make an assumption. You don't know how the contract is formulated. Promises, predictions and expectations (especially in the media) are very different from real life. Also what you call slander I believe is justified when you consider how less effective this project is compared to known and tested forms of transportation. Like most of Musks projects are heavily subsidised and either never amount to anything or are often 10-20 times more expensive and produce far less of the capacity compared to conventional technology. The results when finally delivered are often scrappy and you wonder where all the money went.
@@verynice5574 Because this is all a publicity stunt to circle jerk around Musk and massive advertising campaign for Tessla. Pretty cheap advertisement for Tessla cars, even with fines, and media outlets fawning over Musk again, feeding his ego. Small price to pay for someone with the money to do so.
Few other criticisms you didn't point out... 1) 62 vehicles, which seem to encompass all of Tesla's models, would likely have an ASP of $60k. That's $3.72 million for the "shuttles". 2) Tesla seemingly received a no bid contract. Tesla and TBC are two separate companies, so why did Tesla get chosen to provide the shuttles by default? There are plenty of companies producing electric cars that could have worked in the tunnels, and I'm sure another OEM would have been happy to build actual electric shuttles. 3) If you map the walking path, from the stations to the front of the convention center, it's only about .5 miles, so about a 10 minute walk. 4) If you look at the driving paths, dedicated shuttle buses, even electric buses, could easily have performed this same task. I imagine 6 e-buses would have done the trick, which at $750k a pop, would have cost $4.5 million... $750k more than the Tesla shuttles. Except that no tunnels would have been needed, saving $53 million. They'd have only needed 6 drivers instead of 62, saving millions more per year. 5) The potential fine is a drop in the bucket for Tesla. Keep in mind that Tesla doesn't directly pay for advertisements. This tunnel IS their advertisement, which was mostly funded by Vegas taxpayers. (Through a room tax.. so it was a tax on tourists) Think about it. The loop will potentially transport millions of people in Tesla vehicles that can be bought today on Tesla's website. The original intent of skyrocketing passengers to over 100 mph in this tiny tunnel system in a Tesla was meant to wow them into buying a Tesla, just like Tesla does at every vehicle unveiling when they have quick test rides setup with lights, smoke, and rapid acceleration through a rainbow tunnel. Passengers will be wowed by how quickly the tunnel transports them over a LONG half mile. Honestly, most people don't really understand how short a distance that is, so only being in the taxi for 1 minute will seem like the Tesla did something incredible. It takes literally one minute for a car traveling at 30 mph to travel half a mile. It isn't amazing... but passengers won't know that as they travel through the claustrophobic tunnel. It really makes you wonder why Vegas effectively built a $53 million stage, +$4 million for Tesla vehicles, + millions more for drivers for the sole purpose of Tesla advertising their vehicles. The LVCVA is effectively the advertising branch of the Vegas government, read their wiki... Their goal is to create things to lure people to Vegas. That said, Nevada certainly has a huge stake in Tesla... being that they gave Tesla 10-20 years of tax abatements for building their gigafactory there, along with hundreds of millions of dollars in tradable credits that they can sell, with more prospects of Tesla expansion in the state. The land Tesla build their factory on in Nevada was given to them for free by the land owner. Nevada's Harry Reid was Senate Majority leader with the federal tax credit legislation went into effect, and when Tesla received a $465 million DOE loan that funded their purchase of NUMMI on the cheap. The company was on the brink of bankruptcy at the time, only had 900 employees, and up to that point had only produced fewer than 2000 roadsters. The more you read about it, the more corrupt it seems. Tesla's other factories were heavily funded by the government. No wonder their costs are so low!
I bet this gets re-purposed in later years for other sponsoring electric car manufacturers, or perhaps, sci-fi underground exhibits. Great escape 4D? Visit Futurama's old New York?
I don't understand what the Tesla engineers are thinking. They could easily fake the automated shuttle concept using an analog system that just follows a painted line down the tunnel. But I guess that's not neural networky enough for their blockchain.
@@StinkPickle4000 Remember those little old timey cars at theme parks that were on rails that you could ride around a little set path? All they had was a go pedal, that moved you at like 3-5 mph. They should do that with this...just sayin'. lol! Wouldn't even need to waste huge battery packs on electric cars... just have it like a trolly with electric lines on the ceiling.
@@pointmanzero lol... good point. But then maybe a hijacker would get into the tunnel and paint a curved line into the wall... ie Wile E Coyote style. I couldn't say that it wouldn't be hilarious.
@@updlate4756 Yes! Lil trolly rides for the stans to pretend they live the Ludicrous future! The fact they're not using FSD here speaks to the depth of the problem that is automation, so many people are just like mAchInE LEaRn It Robot WILL take over!! Automating this safely is understandably difficult because of how close the machines operate to people. Crosswalks for example make this an automation non-starter in a lot of ways. It looks like they could have engineered a lot of those problems out but it seems they just rushed this out, or at least spent $0 on R&D, pure development project here.
Would not have expected to see this comment, but that's exactly what I thought! The reasoning sounds a lot like the one behind the Kaprun Disaster: Fire is unlikely, so wee don't need any precautions... :/
@@mrmarrel In fact there are precautions, each car has an HEPA filter against smoke. The tunnel also has a ventilation system, just a small one since those cars do not consume oxygen.
Isn't it time to tell Elon that when a transit system follows a pre-determined route, you can put it on rails and thus you don't need a vehicle you can steer? I mean, those pods, on rails, is totally doable. We have something similar in London, it's called the Docklands Light Railway. And it's electric, but due to an advanced system of central generating technology, doesn't have to carry batteries around.
@jaxtraw woah woah woah go easy with these futuristic ideas you’re suggesting all at once. My brain is still in recovery mode after taking in so many important high level ideas
@@frankfahrenheit9537 I think it might mean Teslas in tunnels carrying batteries from a solar farm to a "power bank" in your town, and then driving the discharged batteries back to the solar farm to be recharged.
Ok maybe it's the fact that I used to have a diagnoses of epilepsy whilst I was a teenager (it got removed after I hadn't had a fit in 4 years the month after I turned 19), but the lights in the tunnels of the Loop straight up do my head in and give me a headache. I've no idea how any driver could endure that for the two 4 hour shifts they'd be driving. Frankly I feel bad for the poor souls because whilst it may give me a headache within a few minutes, even if they are resistent to it, they'll be in there for a long time.
Where is the complete routing software to make sure that a station doesn't get overloaded and congestion backs up in the tunnels? That congestion disaster is awaiting the first day of a fully attended CES.
As soon as I saw the size of the tunnels, I said to myself, what happens when one of the Teslas goes up in flames? And that's not a possibility, that's an inevitability.
A mathematical certainty. OTHER tunnels have actual fire drills where they light a vehicle on fire and test the response. Some of those tests have even gotten out of hand and caused emergencies themselves. When are they going to be torching a Model3 midway down a shaft to conduct that test?
@@commonsenseskeptic Muskrat on a similar comment came out with a sterile scenario where the cars ahead of the fireball just drive out, and the ones behind just drive back to safety, and All Is Well. Absolutely ZERO thought given to human nature, and the way people behave when they're trapped. I was trapped in the backseat of a crashed car (on the side of the highway to Vegas) about 11 years ago. The front right wheel had fallen off. Car pulled up behind us, lady ran up and screamed "Your truck is on fire!" then ran away. I tried to open the door. CHILDLOCK. BIL and Brother scramble out the front, now I'm stuck in the back with SIL. Do I gallantly say "After you madam?" Do I f*ck. I scrambled out of that that bloody thing in sheer panic BECAUSE I DID NOT WANT TO DIE IN A BALL OF FIRE. Imagine how worse, in a similar scenario in that stupid, stupid little tunnel, with smoke filling the space and reducing vis to ZERO. Imagine tumbling out, many people overweight, luggage and crap spilling out, people with health issues (sight, hearing, breathing, walking), children, cars still piling in (break speed @ 35pmh is what? 130feet? That's gonna take a while to shake out. The people in those cars freaking out, every one scrambling over one another in animal panic. I guess the muskrats have spent so much of their lives mistaking CGI for Reality that when it hits them they won't know what's happened. As an old friend once said "I've stopped waiting for people to deal with reality, now I'm waiting for reality to deal with them".
@@commonsenseskeptic Would you mind posting your math showing it's a certainty? When I tried to figure out the likelihood of a fire in a tunnel, I started with Tesla's record of 1 fire every 205 million miles. Of the 22 documented Tesla fires I found, 20 have been Model S or X, and 2 have been Model 3, of which there are about 10x more on the road than Model S & X. So that's roughly 100x less likely for a Model 3 to catch fire than a Model S, probably due to the non-removable battery, which is harder to puncture. So that comes to a Model 3 fire every 20 billion miles or so. It looks like they're going with Model 3s so far. If they manage to achieve 4400 passengers an hour capacity, assuming 4 passengers per vehicle, that's 1100 trips per hour, and I'll assume the average passenger isn't going to do a round trip, but go one way or about a mile, so 1100 miles per hour. So that's about 10 million miles per year. At that rate, they'd hit 20 billion miles or 1 fire every 2000 years. Of course if they switch to Model X, at 100x more likely to catch fire, that'll take it down to 1 fire every 20 years or so. Though, we should consider road debris that could puncture the battery is going to be rarer in that tunnel than on the highway. Did I screw up on my calculations? Or are my assumptions off?
@@SodaPopin5ki Your assumptions are off. You are comparing stats of road and highway driving with wider lanes and shoulders to a very tight tunnel, where a vehicle has to pass by any point in the tunnel every 2.4 seconds to hit their target. That’s closer together than the three-second rule used by safe drivers. And you’re assuming 4 pax per vehicle, which take longer to load in an out, which makes the vehicle have to travel faster to hit their lap time. All the way around, walking is a better solution.
People who think that in the event of an accident, passengers will simply get out & start walking, while all the cars in front will continue & all the cars behind will back up" evidently have not witnessed very many automobile collisions, which often end up with cars jammed together & pointed in very different directions than the original direction of travel. And these people have even less experience trying to extricate passengers (not all of whom are nimble enough to quickly shimmy out through a broken-out window). Then factor in collisions not at 30mph but at even half the claimed 150mph (eventual) speed (which is probably enough to easily rupture the battery pack case) to the mix, and the occupants trapped by doors jammed are dead before the tunnel is clear, and long before first responders get there.
You forgot the fact that it is also "a thrill drive". Nothing is more thrilling than sitting in a car that goes up to 30mph in a tunnel. Elon Musk did it again. He revolutionized transporting once again. Also inventing a tunnel is pretty big deal as well. Is there anything he can't do? Thank you Elon Musk, very cool.
Jesus! I can't believe how potentially calamitous things can get. How the in the world did all that you have pointed out escape their attention. Incredibly dangerous.
I know, it's hard to believe. There must be some kind of fire suppression, but as the video points out, water sprinklers would be hopeless in putting out a battery fire, and if the cars are bumper-bumper during a fire, the flames would easy spread, igniting nearby cars resulting in a chain reaction.
I agree, I seriously fear for the people using this thing especially the elderly and young children. How could this farce be approved by the Las Vegas fire chief? Seems to me a lot of people were paid off to look the other way when it came to fire safety.
@@michaelsteffensen6844 There is no fire suppression, they showed the specs of the contract for the tunnel @9:34 and it stated NO next to Fire Sprinklers and NO next to Fire and Smoke Alarms.
@@phamnuwen9442 wow we must have starved to death before Mr Benz produced the first gas powered car. How long was it before we made the tractors? Your f**king brilliant! Idiocy indeed.
And now Las Vegas has approved 60 more stations of this waste of money. Speaking of waste of money, TBC estimates fares of $10 to go FIVE MILES. New York subway gets by with fares of $2.75 to go almost anywhere.
@@commonsenseskeptic For real. I'd wager it'd be safer and more effective just to loan out bicycles to pedal down the loop. As a resident, I'm very salty about this. All I want is decent transit.
8:18 this is incorrect, a tesla will in fact not slow down for a crosswalk. They typically maintain speed if not increase speed, so this will not be a problem. Unless you are a pedestrian in the crosswalk.
Seeing those cars crawling through the crappy (sic) tunnel reminds me of the sewer scene from the original 'The Italian Job' film (1969) with Michael Caine. At one point the gang's getaway cars - three Mini Coopers - dive into Turin's sewer system to escape the cops. [Nerd note: the filming actually took place in Coventry, England.] They zoom along at high speed, swooping dangerously up and down the curved walls... I wonder if that's where Ego Muskrat got [i.e. stole] the idea from. There's certainly a lot of sh*t involved.🤭
This reminds me of Ford's 1964 World's Fair Magic Skyway, in which you could ride around a loop in a brand new Mustang or other Ford vehicles in hopes of selling more cars. However, that 57-year-old ride is arguably better than the Vegas Loop because the Magic Skyway rode on a track system that required no driver, that allowed you to fit 4-5 people in the cars, the cars were not running no real risk of breakdown or fires, and it was on a constantly moving track that allowed loading and unloading to be seemless. Ford claimed that 2,000 people per hour rode the Magic Skyway.
I know this is an old comment but I just wanted to point it a comparison fallacy here. You’re comparing the average of Tesla fires to the average of all car fires. Teslas are newer, more expensive cars that require at home charging stations, so they’re driven by people who can afford to maintain them. Gas cars driven on the street are much older on average and are driven by people in nearly all income brackets, including many who can’t afford to properly maintain them. So the numbers are apples to oranges. Once the Tesla fleet starts aging more, once the infrastructure is there to open up EVs to more income brackets, the numbers will change.
Based on the subtitles, it looks like the tunnel fire happened in Norway. We have lots of tunnels here, because 70% of the country is mountain range. There is no way in hell that dank neon tunnel of pungent Musk would be approved here.
The lack of fire safety is the biggest failure imo; just one incident could result in loss of life, a huge lawsuit, and an indefinite shutdown of the system. Musk really dropped the ball on this one.
-> Mont Blanc tunnel fire
can people even open their car door while inside the tunnel? it seems like there is no evacuation route too
@@DumbAssPro717 All there is is a regular old fire extinguisher at the entrance of the tunnel. If you slow down the video enough it does look like there are doors throughout the tunnel which may be emergency exits. They're not clearly labeled though, that in itself I'm pretty sure is illegal.
The state authorities should not allow this until fire safety is handled.
@@deniseallen5233 it is maybe handled as a testing facility? Some backdoor where you can do anything.
they took a subay tunnel, replaced tralcks with concrete, painted it white, put in 30$ amazon LEDs and called it a transport system.
That’s an insult to subway tunnels. At least if the subway train breaks down you can open the doors and escape down a catwalk.
@@LeDank Subways also have far greater capacity, far better power efficiency, and only require one or two drivers per train (and are far easier to make autonomous if you wanted to).
But as the video said, the route this runs on is so short that they could have just stuck in a moving sidewalk and called it a day. There’s no need to even bother with a train system, let alone this overengineered and pointless solution that exists purely to say “hey, it’s not actually a subway, so it’s cool and futuristic.”
@@Nathan-kk6lb What it is is a tax-funded Tesla advertisement.
A airport pod transport system works better than this and is totally automated.
@@johntheux9238 actually the digging is far and away the most expensive part, so 2 tunnels is way more expensive than one with a track.
Musk's approach to make tunnels soooo much cheaper than the competition: skip everything that makes them safe to use. Genius!
It's not about skipping the infrastructure but integrating the infrastructure into the car. They are self powered and don't need tracks. They also have safety features like airbags, crumple zone and an HVAC filter if there is a fire.
@@benoitgermanier8815 stop posting now plz.
@@papalegba6759 Why? Just ignore the fact that this information is from me and focus on the content.
@@benoitgermanier8815 not too sure how well a HVAC system in the car is going to work in the middle of one of those tunnels when one of the cars go up in flames.
@@markbrown8097 It won't clear off smoke in the tunnel but passengers are safe.
It's crazy to me how this was approved and built. Not only is it a huge safety hazard, it is incredibly inefficient.
Here in Hamburg there are Metro and Underground Stations that run 3-4 lanes with intervals as short as 2minutes. Each safely transporting a few hundred passangers per train.
For example if you wanna go from the Mainstation to the western district "Altona" there are 3 tunnel lanes: S1, S2, S3, aswell as 2 regular ground lanes: S11 & S31. These run on 10minute intervals, with 6 carts (each cart having ca. 75-100 seats) with about 3minutes apart from the Tunnel lanes and 5minutes for the ground lanes.
Annual passanger load for our Metro was about 245 million passangers in 2017 and 280 Million for our "S-Bahn" in 2016.
But hey, it's not a flashy LED fire hazard tunnel that cost 55mil $ and transport 350k people a year, i guess
@@andrewfranklin4429 declaring this a new copypasta
@@andrewfranklin4429 cope harder, elon fanboy
@@andrewfranklin4429 1: Many subway Systems have higher capacity than you assume. 2: Those stations are not 5 times as close as an average subway station.
3: Even if your logic were right it’s still less efficient than a subway system.
4: It says a lot that you need this much overthinking to find a reason why the loop doesn’t suck.
@@andrewfranklin4429 So I take you have no reasoned response to that?
@@hi.2842 After scrolling through the comment sections on many videos debunking the Vegas Loop, I've identified "Andrew Franklin" (previously "Roc Wurst") and "Martin Hill" as two suspect accounts. They seem to be the exact same person using three different accounts to spam the same marketing hype. I also nominate "Alan Goldstein" as a third suspect. These three people seem to be targeting mostly early comments or the ones that get a ton of likes.
A common trend with Andrew Franklin goes like this:
- Andrew will post some BS
- Then another user (let's call them "User X") will reply with something that boils down to simply "you're wrong"
- Andrew will trick User X into opening a can of worms by replying with something like "wrong in what way [first word of previous user's username]? ..."
- User X will then (reluctantly) pick apart the bullshit that Andrew posted
- Andrew will then reply to User X with more BS
- This is then followed by extremely long back-and-forth arguments consisting mostly of users destroying Andrew Franklin's BS while Andrew themself constantly doubles down on it regardless of how many times they've been proven wrong before.
It's also interesting how, in many of their comments, these users address people by the first word in their username. Another red flag for me is the fact that they repeatedly copypaste the same crap to almost everyone they reply to, quite often doing so multiple times on the same thread.
There's also "Kevin Bailey" (and probably a few others) who is another fairly well-known shill but I'm not sure if they are the same as the previous two or three. They're not as rampant, but I've seen them many times when I sort the comments on a video about the Loop by "new". Kevin is no less egregious than those three because even though they're not "in your face" about the bullshit they're pushing they will often say things to try to hide the fact that they're shilling.
But seriously, if you have to resort to massive numbers of logical fallacies to "get your point across", you don't have any good points.
UPDATE May 2022: At this point, I strongly suspect that these accounts are AI chatbots, given the downright inhuman nature of the way they do things.
I promised you guys a mobile phone with that would cost ten thousand dollars but would have a holographic display and allow for wireless transmission of text just by thinking about it. We decided to simplify this, for the benefit of the consumer, and now we present a pair of cans connected by a string.
To be fair they simplified the loop system but the long term goal for throughput and top speed remains the same: 4000 cars per hour and 150Mph top speed.
If you can get rid of the monorail and get the same specs it's just common sense.
😁😆🤣🤣🤣🤣
No the phone will cost nothing but maybe a few thoughts will be used to present only ads you want. This is win win
"here is your soup."
"but i ordered steak."
"maaahhhhh....close enough."
Which is way more profound than it sounds.
On the other hand, this would make for a nice cycling tunnel...
That might end up being the only way these tunnels end up being usable is as bike-only roads. That is the only way they could redeem this thing without massively redesigning it
Or cross country skiing...
True. You could probably go faster on a bike.
that would be awesome ! Some cool Tron looking bicycles
Hey! It might move more than 4400 people per hour.
Imagine: the year is 2095 and Elon Musk is all over the news and the internet with his latest invention... Windows 95.
Plug&Prey never gets old!
That over rated snake oil sales man would never be able to pull that off , the best he could do is windows ME
oh no... he will be floating through space slowly dissolving as small pieces of debris chip away at his frozen body because he pissed off the wrong person with actual knowlegde about the spaceship and its airlocks while on his way finally abandoning earth.
It will be a good day for humanity.
Duh frick
You mean HyperWindows...
If Tesla cant even make autopilot work in an isolated tunnel built by themselves, it's probably never going to work.
Plus, since these cars are only used in the loop system itself, they could even just have added a little tracker thing to them and to the street they built. But even that was too much.
AI driving will eventually be perfected, I just don't think Tesla will be the ones to do it. It will be created by real engineers and programmers, not Elon Musk, and traditional auto manufacturers will buy the tech and put it into cars. With any luck, it will be a big open source system that anyone can use or modify.
As a logistics guy: self driving in tunnels or known areas is absolutely standard stuff. So even compared to similar technology (not compared to useful transportation solutions for people as most do), this is pretty bad.
Work for them! It might work if others tried.
Right? I mean there are 100 ways to program those cars to drive this path...and it still doesn't work. Laughable.
the lesson here is: never trust a car salesman xD
that is actually so very true
If only public transport is more prevalent...
Not a European btw
@@revimfadli4666 Even here in Mexico City where a part of our metro collapsed we have better infrastructure than most of the US.
@@Ottmar555 can't have a collapsing infrastructure if you didn't have one in the first place lol
A lithium-snake oil battery car salesman.
I cannot fathom how anyone sees this "loop" without realizing its literally just a shitty tunnel with leds? Do all reporters have stock in tesla? Why do they keep covering for this obvious scammer?
Reminds me of the news media's fixation witht he Kardashians and the Kennedys.
"So... how about we build a direct route to the convention center?"
Las Vegas: "Okay."
"It'll be underground and be pretty fast."
Las Vegas: "Yeah, keep going..."
"It'll be on rails and have a high capacity for people."
Las Vegas: "Ew, no. NO TRAINS!"
"Alright, how about we pave the tunnel with asphalt and put cars through it..."
Las Vegas: "Hmm... maybe..."
"And outfit it with neon lights?"
Las Vegas: "BRILLIANT!"
I don't get why Americans hate trains. They seem brilliant to me. Pretty straightforward, great for mass transportation, usually only more expensive to build than roads, but way cheaper to maintain... personally I think no means of transportation has succeeded in being better than trains.
@@Corredor1230 Go check out the shenanigans that take place on New York trains or any large American city for that matter. Americans don’t know how to behave or clean up after themselves. The results are public transportation being a horrible experience at times. And I could not imagine how it would be in Vegas. Mind you that cities nickname is Sin city. There would be countless crimes taking place on public trains in Las Vegas.
@@CursedRaichu I think that's probably the impression you get because public transport is underfunded in the US, no?
@@Corredor1230 I honestly have no clue. I’ve never even been on any form of public transportation. But that could definitely be the reason. That or there’s just too many crackheads concentrated in one area lmao.
@@CursedRaichu Lol, well, there are plenty of crackheads in cities like Paris and Madrid too, but they manage somehow. So I think that it's just about giving proper funding to public transport. If you ever visit Europe or East Asia, you'll see it's definitely possible.
The single fire extinguisher *Chef’s Kiss*
If someone gets a heart-attack or anything of that sort, they'll just straight up die, cause there is no reliable way of helping them.
Well unless the car is self driving, hah
Well the La Vegas Convention Centre may have just introduced its newest food concession. Because one of those vehicles ignites in a tunnel you’re going to have BBQ Human. Finger licking good
@@andrewfranklin4429 stop being a grovelling fanboy. Really. Your comparing a system that can carry 1,000 people per train with 4 seater cars. Hilarious. Oh and they must be clumsy in NYC - because I can guarantee in most of the worlds metros people are not falling or being pushed in front of speading trains. Crowd stampedes?? Wtf. Terrorists? These are what you think are selling points. Are you 5 years old? By the way must be exhaustion popping around making all these comments over the last hour on the same thread defending the system.
Imagine the drivers' mental psyche when they have to face down those trippy tunnel every single day. Can't be that healthy for sure. Talk about literal tunnel vision.
Now imagine DRIVING down those white tunnels with only the road as a visual indicator of where the car needs to be not to hit the walls.
Imagine being autistic and having to use this sensory nightmare
I know right? Like what the fuck, what kind of dystopian shits does Elon brings here?
The cars drive on their own. And since this is not on public roads, the FSD can be implemented without government approval.
From being an Uber driver for 1.5 years I can't imagine doing this for 40 hours a week. It's extremely distracting talking to strangers while you are driving and every person who gets in this is going to be blabbing while you navigate that tiny tunnel hundreds of times a day.
This is going to go down as one of the world's stupidest feats of "engineering". Like any normal person would see all of the flaws in this system but with enough hype silicon valley tech bros will eat up anything
We can only hope people see it before they waist more time and money on this shit.
It will definitely be up there with Juicero.
Nah, Solar highways already got that spot quite firmly.
@@dmclegg66 *waste ~ sorry, can't help myself.. yes, you are right
Perfect for Vegas.
"We simplified this a lot. It's basically just Teslas in tunnels at this point, which is way more profound than it sounds"....um no its not 🤦♂️
it's so easy an intern could do it!
Thank you Kanye, very cool.
Well no it is! More money in Musk pocket!
Just not teslas in a túnel , Elon saving Las Vegas and the world , with his electric cars powered by fósil fuel .
Elon in 5 years: "We simplified this a lot. It's basically just a couple of pictures made by Ingenuity that we show to our Starship guests. This is way more profound than it sounds..."
They built a metro, but worse in every single aspect.
Just what humanity needs.
We already knew it would be a joke, but in the end, it turned into a dangerous joke. The puny fire extinguisher is an april's fool in itself.
I also love the little mirror on the wall, so the autopilot can see backwards....
Imagine being a driver for this, your mind would go insane after a while and you'd want to crash the damn thing.
they'll need 100s of drivers too, the system is unworkable.
I got a job interview for this place soon rip to me
@@josueflores6641 make sure you're not liable for any damage to the car if you ding it, that's the exact kinda d!ck move musk'd pull.
Yup and I have a feeling the super saturated hyper colors will worsen or induce vertigo.
Marines in boot camp have to run an underground tunnel on the shooting range from one end to the other that's 500+ meters long and it's very easy to get sucked into the sides and crash and burn😁. And we had more space running single file in those tunnels than the cars do in the "Hyperloop". Hope no one gets hurt.
Very difficult to drive through a tunnel that narrow - even once, let alone on constant repeat. Total concentration required at all times... And what happens when you need to take a pee?!
Personal Rapid Transit projects from the early 1970s managed to be way higher capacity, energy efficient, faster, safer, cheaper to operate, and ACTUALLY AUTONOMOUS. With a very simple computer and rails.
And even then they weren't really a good alternative to classical rapid transit (in most cases).
You mean the 1870s. Well maybe not the actually autonomous part yet.
@@InLoveWithCities except for airports, but MAN is a bi-directional curb steered bus cool
Let's see, 15 minute walk or possible unescapable tunnel of fiery death? I think I could use the fresh air.
@@rajnadar6555 If it truly is just 1km, then that's 45 minutes... crawling! 1km is hardly enough distance to drive.
@Raj Nadar They actually mentioned that it's normally a 15 minute walk in the promotional video. That is for about 1.3 kilometers. Most people walk about three or for kph, but l suppose if you were strolling and eating ice cream, taking pictures etc then it could maybe take twice as much. If you were trapped in a burning car in a tunnel and you can't open the doors it might take even more of your time.
@@SofaKingShit ...you'd might even say it would take ALL of your time.
🤣🤣🤣😂
@@Corredor1230
1 km would be about a ten minute walk; not far enough to be worth getting into a car unless you have difficulty walking, or the weather is bad.
I live in a place (Dortmund, Germany) with a functioning, helpful subway system (in spite of the flooding and coal mining history of the entire area) and when I saw this the very first time, I said nothing, showed my gf the picture and waited for her reaction. She's basically the neutral observer in this, almost no interest in engineering, Infrastructure and technology. She said "oh good, a less effective, less safe, less useful subway. This is why I don't wanna go to Vegas, it's the dumbest place on earth"
I know americans like to do this to things, but they have no managed to fuck up even the subway.
@@StrazdasLT 🇺🇸 👍
You got a smart gf man
Grüße gehen raus an die U47! Und den "neuen" Hauptbahnhof.
Gambling is a great way to lose money. Yes, the capital of free dumb america.
I don't suffer from claustrophobia, but watching the cars drive through the tunnels was anxiety-provoking even for me.
Imagine one of those Teslas catching fire (that never happens , right?) , no way to escape, no fire suppression of any kind, no ventilation, no way to evacuate safely...what can go wrong???
I'd rather walk. Slowly moving through a tightly enclosed tunnel sounds like pure torture.
Don't forget the color changing LEDs
Could be a good walking space during hot days
While sitting right behind a battery that can spit bright yellow lithium flames... and there's no way out of the tunnel quickly.
"The Boring Company" is the perfect name.
Driving around that circle 8 hours a day has got to be one of the most boring jobs on the planet. That in itself is going to cause safety issues.
It probably wanted to sound like and be associated with ''Boeing''. It failed on every count.
The documentaries on Elon musk in a 100 years will be fascinating
I bet 10 years will be well enough
Fair enough. Depends on how big and obvious the crash is. he's literally trump in the 80s and 90s. except that he's not putting his name on real estate but on futuristic sounding niche products touted as revolutionary
@@paapa300 clicked to say the same. Might be only one year. Depends on how long we have to wait until a tesla blows up in that pipe and how many die.
Just think there's probably some 9yr old Disney kid now who'll win an Oscar for playing Musk as a crazy John deLorean type in forty years time.
If the stans have their way they'll write revisionist history that portrays him as a martyr/prophet.
Just imagine this, I live in London and they spend millions here modernising the tracks, building high speed rail/underground systems, making road tunnels, hell the eurotunnel literally connects France to England, it transports goods, cars and people and yet it runs a train. The cars load on a train and drivers can get out and relax in the food carriage. This is beyond stupid. They built a fuvcking zebra crossing for 4400 people/hr that crosses the track like WHAT!?
If Elon was in Europe he would be either be heavily fined (UK, France, Italy etc) or worse jailed (Germany, Netherlands).
God bless murica, land of the con, home of the scammer
And then there's the DLR, providing effective automated transport since at least the early nineties.
@@ETM2024 hahaha on the DLR while you posted this. Definitely DLR gets way less credit than due. Its even more interesting than some underground lines. Also, you get mobile network and the views are just the best out of all London lines.
@@chiefponcho
Perfect 😂
It's been a while since I was last in London but I thought the DLR was an excellent bit of engineering when I first discovered it and still wish we employed a similar system here (Glasgow), and loved the view travelling around it.
Even in the UK, France or Italy if this dumbass system caused a fire and deaths he'd be jailed.
Next they're gonna replace the New York subway trains with Teslas that'll move 5 people a minute.
They just did a stress test on Tuesday. It was far more than 5 people a minute, but probably not 4400 people per hour. I will wait to see the numbers.
NY subway has a capacity of 50.000 per hour per direction for more than 100 years.
@@endlesscyclist1212 But at what cost?
Update: they exceeded 4400 people per hour and it was just V3 configuration. Target is 5050 people per hour for V4.
@@benoitgermanier8815 Unless they were using clown cars i doubt they could pull off 4,400 people per hour. Also subways easily carry 10 times the amount of people per hour for only a fraction of what it'd cost to run the loop
I am really curious how it actually managed to pass the capacity test. Sounds like independent observers were not allowed.
I think the point is they did not
I bet the test was run under perfectly favourable conditions so as to avoid any of the problems that would occur in the real world.
We had the fire in the Düsseldorf Airport exactly 25 years ago. This forced a number of new laws about safety in such buildings. I'm sure this loop would never see a passenger in Germany. It wouldn't even be build unless a safety concept is proven and accepted.
Grüße nach Düsseldorf aus Linz :)
Das kannst du laut sagen!
I am pretty sure that it would be the same for every country in the world except the countries where people still ride on the roofs of trains.
I would be interested to hear what the tesla workers in California say when they see German tesla workers making twice as much in a unionised factory with qualified safety officers and union reps looking out for them
@@stephenirving1737 Germany has a lot of laws about worker rights, safety and such but Tesla don't have to join the association of car makers&steel and the general nation wide agreement with the union. They can pay what they want just like Amazon is doing this right now. In this case, the workers can build a union or join an existing and start a strike when ever they want (even with just a few people). They can't get fired for this. At Amazon, there are only few workers attending those strikes so Amazon can live with it at the moment.
It will be interesting to see how Tesla will handle this. My prediction is, that Elon will not talk with the unions and try to keep them out. On the other hand, a car manufacturer has so many specific work areas, that a few people can stop the whole production. The German working culture is different and if Elon don't adapt to this he will be out just like Walmart that failed miserably.
It amazes me that this was ever given fire certificate. Even when it was still a CGI or a plan submitted to the local planning mandarins, didn't anyone think to ask "what's you're emergency evacuation strategy?" before signing off the consents. Perhaps a USA (better still Vegas) based reader could enlighten us on what the culture, if not the local law, is on such matters.
I was wondering that myself.
"All Hail The White Paper"
Las Vegas was founded by organized crime figures.The entire economy revolves around escapism.
I think there were some under the table payments for the Las Vegas officials and the fire chief to look the other way, nothing else makes sense, this is just a tragedy waiting to happen anybody with some basic intelligence can see that.
Maybe the "fire suppression" needs a bit more examination. Musk fans claim "it has sprinklers" and if one examines the on ride video, there is "something" running along the crown of the tunnels and every so often something that runs around in an annular ring. Perhaps thee are their sprinkles systems. However, I am surprised there are no smoke vents, emergency walkways, egress to surface, fans, etc.
Something else no one seems to have mentioned thus far, is the lack of access for anyone mobility impaired. Good luck if you are in a wheel chair or have impaired vision for example.
Also, for all the Ayn Rand loving Libertarians out there, you want to know what lack of regulations gets you? Well here is your example
This is supposed to be your mic-drop moment? A lot of the money he's been securing for garbage like this have been given to him by government. Allowing them complete control with more regulations doesn't stop people like Elon Musk.
@@pumpkin6429 I agree. Corruption doesn't uderstand regimes.
OK this not the result of lack of government.
Somalia, Syria and Afghanistan is what happens without a government.
@@pumpkin6429 And what's your amazing alternative to government regulations? To just let him do whatever the hell he wants in a Ayn Rand Libertarian paradise without the government?
The problem isn't government regulations. The problem is that the United states is a government tainted by corporate corruption and bribery which is a result of unfettered capitalism. Most countries don't let corporations openly bribe politicians in the guise of donations, yet here we are where it's commonplace. The problem is there's not enough regulations on corporations and their ability to influence, and taint politics to suit their own personal interests. All removing the government does is speed up how fast they're going to fuck everyone over to hit those profit margins.
It's that the government is tainted by big donors like Elon Musk that this kind of shit happens, as though he didn't influence them choosing his design at all. It's corporations influencing the government, with the government throwing out a few half-assed hand-slappy stipulations to pretend like they're doing anything besides sponsoring these kind of people, when the facade wears thin.
this is the fault of progressives. you will buy anything as long as a con man assuages your emotions
the Channel Tunnel (or Chunnel) runs for 50km under the English Channel crossing at the Strait of Dover. it consists of two 25ft main tunnels, and a 16ft service tunnel, and carries 20 million passengers, 1.5 million tonnes of freight, 2.5 million cars, 51000 coaches, and 1.6 million lorries per year. it cost $30 billion dollars and was completed approximately 30 years ago. Elon Musk takes $50 million dollars to dig a couple of 12ft wide tunnels under a parking lot. he delivers late and forgets to put in fire suppression equipment, proper ventilation, and an alternate means of access. and is promptly hailed as a visionary genius. in fact, he's Times Man of the Year. honestly, i'm not even sure what world we're living in anymore.
They'd be better off having people run bicycles down those tunnels, ur huge ass conveyer belts.
Musk: "We should make rubber roads and asphalt wheels."
Simps: "Ahhhhh.... Genius."
So... A handful of nails could bring this whole thing to it's knees!?!
One flat tire!
@@animatewithdermot Let's hope nobody accidentally breaks a bottle then.
As if that's likely at all... in Vegas... in a system marketed primarily towards tourists...
Ha ha you thinks that’s bad, just wait till you think about hyper loop and a massive vacuum tube. One ☝️ bullet. One ☝️ cracked seal. One earth tremor... the list goes on
@@morphman86 yeah i worked in a big uk train station and dealing with gangs of drunken revellers was a nightmare. let's hope there's none of them in vegas lol...
@@papalegba6759 Do the doors lock under motion? Pretty easy to scrape the sides of that tunnel. Or maybe just lean out the window and hurl all over the sides of the tunnel lmao
I'd have to believe that the LVCC could have built an cable-supported tramway for a fraction of what the LVCC Loop cost, with total transit time not much slower, and a lot lower labor cost.
It probably could have been inside the convention center, which would have allowed visitors a birds-eye view of exhibits they might be interested in seeing up close.
An APM system would have probably been even easier. Lots of manufacturers to choose from, with plenty of proven solutions from, I don't know, every other international airport. Could have saved some money as well if they allowed it to be elevated.
thing is, they did this for the clout and the headlines. also as a way to draw in musk fanboys who will want to "experience the future with their own eyes". that doesnt work if you do something more reliable, safe and afordable...
@@marcosdheleno yeah, but it's honestly silly that Musk didn't just design a "Tesla train" and use it to build up hype for Hyperloop in the process.
Of course, then we'd see that battery-powered EVs don't scale up as well at they like to pretend they will
Every "sales pitch" should be accompanied by a "fails pitch" made by critical engineers.
Seriously what is the function of the rainbow LEDs if not to create a futuristic illusion? The system is not innovative, not cost effective, nor safe.
Suppose it could be used for signalling to the drivers to help them maintain a safe distance. Or warning of a fires n the tunnel... But yeah they've just got them set to disco mode in all the promos.
@@joinedupjon Can you imagine driving through a narrow tunnel that changes its colors every second for 8 hours a day?
I actually felt a little uncomfortable just by looking at the screen.
The idea was to make the ride "thrilling" and "exciting" because VEGAS! (seriously, that's how they sold it)
The lights let everybody know the loop is gay approved.
The rainbow light show is there for the news media to eat up, and people fall for it.
I'd be interested to hear what professionals working with fire safety has to say about this tunnel. Assuming the air moves in one direction by fans and assuming that you can actually exit your vehicle in case of an emergency, if there is a vehicle fire in there, the smoke would travel along the pipe in one direction and people could escape the other. But if there are multiple cars in the tunnel, the cars in front of the fire will suddenly be enveloped in smoke and would have to hold their breath while they exit the tunnel without smashing into the cars in front. I imagine visibility could become zero quickly in such a case, making a safe exit very hard. I really hope that these things will be considered by the authorities in the area before rather than after a tragic incident happens.
I didn't notice any tunnel ventilation fans..
If the Las Vegas Building & Safety Dept actually signed off on Musk's permit, they share liability for incurring damages. Someone in that department is either very stupid or received a disgusting amount of money and has retired to live in the Bahamas.
Firefighter for 13 years. This wouldn't pass muster. I see it being a rerun of either the kaprun disaster, or the St. Gothard tunnel fire.
@@bosoerjadi2838 My speculation is that the ventilation is managed from mid station, that it is kept at a positive or negative pressure relative to the outdoors. Though which such small cross sectional area that pressure have to also overcome the entries for people and such which would have way less resistance.
@@miklov I agree vid's don't do the actual engineering justice. Presumably the venting is managed but it's such a meager installation this could be handled by some relatively low grade hardware at the center station, and I bet that got undersizd, lol. First accident in the tunnel could still be a catastrophe though.
@David Orozco Do you see any vents in the tunnels? Also, simply having vents is not good enough, you need to force the air one or the other way. In regular tunnels you have air pumps in the ceiling. A fire in a regular tunnel is pretty bad, a fire in this tunnel while occupied by multiple vehicles is probably a tragedy.
I just watched your video again and the lack of any safety measures is terrifying. As soon as something goes wrong, and one of those cars combusts, everyone in that tunnel who can't race out of there to the next offload point is going to die of smoke inhalation. It's amazing that this project was greenlit at all. That loop is a deathtrap.
A smaller, less safe and less efficient version of a regular tunnel. Idk why he's trying to reinvent the wheel only to make a worse wheel
more like a square
I visited LVCC on April 2022 during NAB 2022 and I rode the Vegas loop many times during this visit. Couple corrections and validations:
1. Yes, the IDEA of loop is great and valid - when you're on trade/show, you're in suit, you don't have time and you don't want to sweat, running from west to east hall. Believe me.
2. west station doesn't have and doesn't need pedestrian crossing - pedestrians come to the station between the entrances to the tunnels
3. As for April 2022, there is still no fire/accident equipment
4. No, there is no sightseeing on this 15 minute walk from west to south hall. Just concrete and heat.
5. Yes, cars still have drivers and still are slow
6. Wait time is about a minute
7. You didn't add to the cost, the employees working at stations that are hired to: point you to the car; supervise you don't get hit by tesla car.
Great idea, bad execution.
Bad execution, like his abandoned hyperloop in LA...imagine that?
agreed. It's good for getting people around a convention, and it's a good tourist attraction (which is the whole point of vegas). But it's terrible for traditional transportation needs, and therefore won't ever replace typical metros.
How this was even allowed to be built?
I mean, really, it fails any safety check even on paper.
Probably because Tesla has the highest Euro NCAP safety rating, one accident every 4.19 million miles driven on autopilot (versus 484'000 miles for the US auto average) and one fire every 205 million miles driven (versus 19 million miles for the US auto average)
@@benoitgermanier8815 oh, I didn't know, that EuroNCAP is performing tests for poorly designed tunnels with no room to vent, escape or evacuate if the safest car ever existed will go flame.
And, of course, I'd like to see comparison with other tunnel transportation solutions, like subway/underground - you know, avarage speed, passenger capacity, cost efficiency and, of course, safety.
Or even put an electric bus in line, for better comparison.
But even this is not the whole picture without detail: what Elon Musk claimed while presenting such stupid idea with underground cars for cars, traveling 160 mph and what public got IRL - with 62 Teslas riding somewhat 35 mph in avarage, and carrying less passengers than electric bus, while costs twice as much (comparison is done for car price/bus price, tunnel not included). And all of that is done with public money, LOL.
@@Immanatum I don't think he ever promised to reach 155mph for this tunnel...
But yeah, we need to wait for the Maxwell dry coating for fireproof batteries. Hopefully the HEPA filter is enough to keep people safe if there is a fire.
@@Immanatum Long term goal is 4000 vehicles per hour so 28000 people per hour for 7 seats. That's about the same as othe transportation solutions.
But it's not really the efficiency that matters, it's better to have two small tunnels than a big one because then you have more stations, so less walk.
@@benoitgermanier8815 it is sounds more like highly cocained trip, than solution IRL. 4 000 cars, 7 passengers per car (really? Where is the driver? Where are places for two additional passengers?) Currently, avarage price for 62 Teslas in total is ~$2.1 mln, while electric bus Volvo 7900 costs ~$1 mln. In case if this amphetamine dream comes true, it will cost more than $135 mln.
Even extremely rough calculations shows that one Volvo 7900 can carry up to 135 passengers, per hour (in avarage) ~15 000 passengers, which is ~20 Tesla cars (or, more realistically 4 passengers + driver - 34 cars). So, 4000 cars with 28 000 passengers per hour is ridiculous. 2 busses need two drivers. They will ride with the same speed - 35 mph, won't fatally jam the traffic - if something happens in case of 62 Teslas in the tunnel - if something happens to one of them in the tunnel - how many cars will stuck in the tunnel? Which has highly questionable design with poor ventilation, has no room for anything except Tesla car (in case of emergency - passenger got heart attack or so - what to do?).
To summarize: enormous amount of 4000 cars, which carry less passengers per hour than 2 buses, inside the tunnel which is done with all possible violations is a bad idea. Really bad.
I just learned that 25 more miles of the "Las Vegas Loop" have been approved aprox. 2 months ago. I don't know if I should be horrified that Las Vegas authorities have approved the possibly larges crematory in the world, or looking forward to CSS doing an update on this insanity project...
Just think about the mental impact of driving through a tiled tube for several hours or even an entire shift.
Looks like an episode of "engineering disasters" in the making.
Indeed Well There Is Your Problem... pre-emptively covered it, too.
@@Daneelro Cars bad, trains good.
@@InLoveWithCities yes
@@InLoveWithCities what does that mean? Because factually cars, electric Musk cars are bad as shown in the video, Electric trains are better
@@ryhanzfx1641 Theres a podcast called "Well there's your problem". And one of their common sayings is "cars bad trains good". Because car centric development sucks. It's a waste of land, it creates gridlock, it's paves over the world where instead people and/or plants could find a place.
Electric cars are a little better than combustion engine cars because they don't pollute at the point where the car is but they still suck. Individual transport just isn't the answer.
Btw. Trucks for anything but short range suck too. Maybe even more.
We have something called "The Building Codes". How this is approved at the first place?
I knew this was a insanely stupid idea, yet every video I watch about it somehow reveals even more about just how kind bogglingly terrible of a project this was
I swear a kindergarten classroom could plan something better than this
Anyone who's ever watched those videos about deaths caused by bad engineering or safety oversights can easily see this is a tragedy waiting to happen. That's assuming it even gets used, but it doesn't take a genius to see this will get backed up very quickly if it operates anywhere near capacity. All this money and hype to avoid a 15 minute walk, and they have the nerve to claim it's "environmentally friendly"...
They made this fuss for a 15 minutes walk?Dear god, the selfishness of liberals.
The question is what will happen first, some pedestrian getting run over by a tesla driver that tries to fullfil his impossible quota (probably near that crosswalk), or some tesla, after months of perpetual use around the clock from 100% usable charge to 0% going up in flames inside one of these tunnels. Well we also have the overworked driver crash option or the wildcard bet of someone going mad from the RBG bullshit disco lights.
Well, since covid is still a thing Musk will probably get away with it for another couple of months before the first proper coventions will be held again.
@@durshurrikun150 Did he even mention liberals? If feels good living rent free in you head. Lol
Well, first current autopilot has one accident every 4.19 million miles versus 484'000 miles for the US average. Those cars are also the safest according to Euro NCAP.
Then the LVCC is small, but the Las Vegas loop will be 6 miles from one side to the other. That's definitively not a 15 minutes walk.
@@ignispurgatorius5297 There is one Tesla fire every 205 million miles versus 19 million miles for the US average. It's extremely safe.
They are also working on a million miles battery.
Detroit: "The PeopleMover is the worst public transport idea ever"
Vegas: "hold my beer"
But the tunnels have pretty lights. And I think they even change color!
colorful lights may seem simple, but it's more profound than it seems! :P
Man, what a genius, nobody has ever done that before.
Colour changing lights,
Must be the future 🤔😆😂
Just you wait until there's a fault in the Chinesium control unit, and the lights begin strobing frantically, giving people epileptic seizures and headaches.
@@NerothLoD , strobing lighting, then the music will start up and we could all dance Elon style
Human's walk at 5km per hour. It would take a human 12 minutes to walk that 1 kilometre with no requirement for electricity. A normal fit human can run at 5 minutes per kilometre so this car is faster than a walking human but slower than an average human's jogging pace.
Revolutionary
It takes 2 minutes to go from one side to the other with this loop...
@@benoitgermanier8815 the documentation from the company actually states one lap is 5 minutes and 50 seconds so that is 2km. Lets say its 3 minues for the 1km. Add in passenger inress/egress times and queueing for available car that would take much longer. Let's say its 1 minute in and 1 minute out. Nothing additional for delays or queuing. That is 5 minutes. A good jogging human pace. Bicycle is faster. It would be much easier and no cost to just walk that distance. The NYC subway Q train takes 2 minutes to get from 72nd street to 86th street (900 metres). This system is not faster than the subway
@@StrayCatInTheStreets Just looked at the video "Las Vegas Loop Tesla Testing at Las Vegas Convention Center"
10:42 -> 12:41 so two minutes
13:05 -> 14:07 so one minute
So if you go directly from the first to the last station it's about 3 minutes.
@@benoitgermanier8815 Three minutes in a tunnel with non-existent safety measures, plus waiting for pedestrians at the crossing, and for a car to become available. Or you can walk and arrive a minute later.
@@smaakjeks Yeah, but this tunnel will be connected to the Vegas extension which should be 6 miles from one side to the other. This is just the beginning.
The dumbest thing is it's so small it's basically pointless, and I'm sure if you looked at the actual spots people are coming from/going to, walking will probably be faster than it would realistically take to go through the hassle of using this system
If you gotta wait 10 minutes for this thing It would have been faster to walk 4 sure!
@@StinkPickle4000 - Most of the people who visit Vegas are to obese to walk.
@@KevinBalch-dt8ot They should just open the tunnel up to their mobility scooters! lol
When Vegas is crowded and hot (remember it’s a desert), a 15 minute walk can be an hour and very unpleasant
@@jorgesmith2000 vs waiting at the outside collection points? You only get to wait underground if you are leaving the central station.
And, I'm sorry but temperature and relative humidity does not impact time and space. It may *feel* like an hour, to you, but a 15 minute walk is still 15 minutes, although I concede walking anywhere in America is unpleasant.
Imagine a 50 million dollar above ground walk path, call it HyperPath! It would be beautiful and with the annual budget of the loop you could spray gold flaked cooling water on people as they walk!
Making a public transportation system for a fixed rout, especially in tunnels and for that using cars is so fucking stupid that I lack words for it. Goddammit, just build a regular subway and you'll easily fulfill the transportation need with much less drivers (if any), no batteries that can burn and everything is simply better.
A subway would need to stop at each station so it would be a lot slower.
@@benoitgermanier8815 Is only 1.5 km long, what stations in between?
@@AurelAvramescu There is only one station in the middle for now, but the Vegas extension will have tens of them.
@@benoitgermanier8815 This is not scalable for longer trips. The tunnel is too small and congestion will happen to all stations, because you have to brake and still will be slow and anyway is slow at 30MPH
@@AurelAvramescu This loop has no straight line so it's quite slow but their target is still 155mph for the loop system.
The Vegas extension will have a 4 miles straight line. We will see what maximum speed they can achieve.
And Musk will get no bad press from that I'm pretty sure.
Remember that the next time you see a mainstream media report.
Of course he won't, he's too connected and he has his propagandists in the media.
His stock and trade is Fairy Dust. He delivered in spades here. The media is all about Alice in Wonderland.
A recent reddit post about "Why not build a train?" makes this statement about safety...
"LVCC Loop satisfies National Fire Protection Association code (NFPA-130) for fixed guideway transit.
Stations are less than 2500' feet apart and serve as exits to the surface, so no exits are required within each tunnel segment as per NFPA-130 6.3.1.4.
Within the tunnel there is nearly three feet of space on either side of a Model 3 for passenger egress, including 18" of road surface on either side. Per NFPA-130 6.3.3.3 the 112" wide roadway can serve as the evacuation route which is normally clear and free of obstructions and touch hazards (such as a third rail)."
Hear this out: subway
I find it funny that the tunnel is so narrow, a standard tow truck wouldn't even fit, let alone have room to hook up a disabled vehicle.
Tow trucks are a things of the past. I present to you the new invention of Musk called pushing the car with your hands. What do you mean its not efficient!?
Still blows my mind to this day that this guy is still able to kick the can down the road and continues to majestically pull the rabbit out of the hat (next year, it was never intended to be full self driving, the hyperloop will be ready next year, your car will be a robotaxi that can earn you 40% of the sales price you paid per year). The burning question is, how much longer can it last before the bottom falls out?
Love the vids. I like relaxing documentaries and the smooth and even tone with no suddenly shouting is perfect for that.
I just regret not watching Common Sense Skeptic before I invested $3k into Tesla. Now I know I will never see that money ever again. Anytime anyone brings up Musk I always direct them to this channel, hopefully it will open their eyes as it did mine. Keep up the great work.
Set your sale price for a small profit and get out if and when some hype pushes it past you purchase price.
Then look into shorting Tesla stock. :p
@@EricLDunn I'll admit I'm long TSLA for now, and have been for a while. I keep watching for the "Theranos reveal" moment. The Nikola moment.... The biggest draw on TSLA in the past year was GME stonks! The stock has nothing to do with underlying business here and I suspect its the same money/mentality that keeps pushing TSLA higher made stocktips a thing. How far can things go?
It looks like it might just be slow attrition. Dustinbins keep blowing up in Boca, loops keep coming in at 30mph, neuralink... Starlink will be interesting. His referral program ensures there are armies of 'influencers' pushing his positive narrative, meanwhile his stans provide cover and purchasing power to push stonks higher!! One analyst says it can go to $2000; buy now!! Musk can then reissue higher and higher, not to mention his compensation package was linked to STONK price!
@@StinkPickle4000 the P/E for Tesla is about 1100 (!) right now. It’s the biggest car company in the world, that sells 1/40 of the cars. How..?
@ Muskateers, or stans, or the fans, or the base, they keep bidding price up. Its not based on business performance. Their "influencers" have convinced people that SpaceX is connected to TSLA, and that buying TSLA is like buying into our "Ludicrous Future" who wouldn't want the future? It's a wonderful future that meant not having to sacrifice a lifestyle to fix climate change just had to buy the right car!
@@StinkPickle4000 It's like a religion.
how tf did they get approval to build it without *any* safety installations?!
Great question.
Musk probably bribed the authorities heavily.
The only thing more mysterious than how this shyster gets away with this is is how dumb the Vegas municipal govt must be to have fallen for the grift.
Assuming those dimensions are correct, that shows how little margin there is to meet the NFPA's requirement for the 'roadway to serve as the evacuation route that is normally clear and free of obstructions.' Notice also that this section of the NFPA pertains to "fixed guideway transit" and probably was not intended to apply to a road tunnel with cars that can easily end up jammed together sideways in a collision, easily blocking both the vehicle exit doors and the "18 inches of road surface on either side"
The government of Las Vegas could have built an actual subway instead.
The other fire/medical safety issue which seems like it will be problem is egressing the vehicle while it is in the tunnel. Maybe by eyes are playing tricks on me. but those walls looks so close to the car, it doesn't seem like the doors can open if somebody needs to get out while it is in the tunnel...
Musk believes that in a few years, autonomus driving will be possible in like 90% of the roads -- yet he can't even solve autonomus driving for a simple 1 lane single way tube...
To be fair they don't use LIDAR so they have to train the AI first to recognise the environment.
They also need to find how far they can push an human driven system to set a new standard and then try to beat that with self driving.
@@benoitgermanier8815 In other words, Tesla are stuck in the "excuses" phase.
*claims
not believes
I wonder how the convention center feels about paying all these drivers after they bought an automated system.
Lol now we know because they' re expanding the system.
To be incredibly, unreasonably generous to Mr. Musk: Peak efficiency in this system would be achieved if a car took more than one load of passengers on a round trip (and it's sensible to calculate with more than one passenger group per round trip, as people are unlikely to go back to their starting station in one ride). Going from A to B, then B to C, then C to B again then B to A, same car, different passengers on each station.
So, on top of the 5:30 round trip driving time, there'd be 4x 2 minutes of loading and unloading, leading to 13:30 per lap of four transports (instead of 7:30 for a lap with one).
That would mean only 4.44 laps per hour, but a total of 17.77 transport "incidents" per hour, which, using 4 passengers per vehicle, would mean 71.11 passengers transferred per car per hour, and thus 4409 passengers in total per hour at 62 vehicles (I promise, I did not try to get to 4400, it just happened). Of course, those numbers go down quickly if less passengers are taken or rides are from A to C or C to A. And it operates on the assumption that there's basically equal demand for transport from each station to each station at all times. And it disregards the limits of the loading bays, or the stated issues with cars having to be taken out to recharge.
That said, the whole system is, of course, utter garbage, and almost any other solution would have been better, even before the safety concerns are taken into account. It's a scam, even if my calculative curiousity had me plug in higher efficiency numbers and thus probably finding a likely source for the 4400 passengers per hour claim, which may appear to some as if I'm a Musk fanboy defending this farce. I am not.
Also some of the Tesla's are Model X so can carry up to 6 passengers which would improve the numbers.
@@james.restall But unless you 'force' people to fill up a car before it leaves, you are more likely than not to have less than full capacity each trip.
Same thing I thought as I was watching the video, that's probably how the 4400pph came about in the first place, that number is at least theoretically possible.
But even then, cars are *the worst possible system* for fast loading and unloading, especially when disabled people have to go in and out, so even at peak efficiency there will be hiccups for people going in and out, unless all the passengers have been trained (which is probably what happened when Musk certified that result).
A well designed system is one that is resilient to hiccups and can run as close as possible to peak efficiency four as long as possible. This system is designed so that it requires maximum coordination to achieve minimum efficiency, costs more in building and has significantly higher running cost than any "conventional" solution.
Truly a masterpiece in engineering.
oh wow, if that's how they came up with 4400, then it's way worse than I though. and if 4400 is more like total system ridership then the actual capacity is 1100 passenger/hr/direction? i'm going to laugh at them even harder now
@@andrewfranklin4429 So you're comparing a theoretical calculation (you're replying to me, not to the video itself) that explicitly ignores station capacity (assuming it to be unlimited) to actual station capacity usage of other systems, considering aspects of the loop as an advantage that are explicitly conditional in that calculation, such as: All vehicles filled to max at all times (which is less likely if there's a multitude of endpoints) and every passenger getting off at the very next station they entered in, and demand being equally distributed across the entire system at all times.
I'm not convinced.
That tunnel is so small it looks claustrophobic. There's no way the concept vehicle, which looks like people could stand up in, could fit in the tunnel.
I am sure the Vegas authorities got a handsome bribe for green lighting this scam. 😂
to be sure
Bribing them with Tesla stock would be the icing on the cake
This is simply the Vegas monorail under ground. Same scam hidden.
@@johndough23 Elon is basically Lyle Langley at the town hall meeting
@@unstoppableExodia 👍 th-cam.com/video/KGg5rfBfWT4/w-d-xo.html
Knowing Musk I bet these drivers are paid absolute shit. I'm actually amazed the city let him build this deathtrap that looks like a set reject from clockwork orange with disco ball lighting. At least you'll look super tacky and vapourwave in your dying moments.
The people mover at Disneyland did better. Maybe not as fast, but more people per hour.
and safer...
And 60 years ago
And pretty view
I was actually thinking the mini-trams they have from the parking lot at Disneyland would work well in these tunnels.
It doesn't have all of the frightening safety issues though. No fun.
You might not get to the convention center faster than you can walk, but you might get an epileptic seizure from all the flashing disco lights.
Imagine if it's a 10 minute lineup to get into Loop
To be fair, you're in Vegas, it's not like you'd be safe outside.
Or they might be scraping your ashes off the floor and walls and you'll be arriving at your destination in a jar.
@@ndi4926 - I was shocked at how much ghetto Vegas was when you get a few blocks east of the strip.
Your clearly not a gamer
Short distances and tight curves made it obvious to anyone with sense that the promised system was impossible...
yeah what is with those tight curves i mean it is a short tunnel under a straight street
That's why they never promised to reach 155mph in that tunnel. The goal is to reach 155mph in the Vegas extention, which has a 4 miles straight line.
The moment when a technology that exists for centuries would be million times better then this truly Boring Tesla tunnel. It is called metro (underground):
- No AI is needed to be automated;
- Scalable & flexible;
- No need to stop for charging - electricity goes through rails;
- Way safer.
Re-inventing the subway, but far worse. Reminds me of Uber re-inventing the bus.
I wonder whether they will be exempt from having to use seat belts, like mass public transport is. It's regular cars, so it is hard to see why... that will be hugely inconvenient, the older and more obese people are, for such a short trip. When I visited my parents last Xmas, I had to help my father strap in in his own fucking car because it took him so long... it would be funny if this project dies by safety regulation :)
@@Baerchenization I just hope they shut it down and empty Musk's accounts before people die in that tunnel from fire or smoke inhalation.
Or fucking monorails that were a waste in any place that had it.
Uber didn't reinvent the bus, just Yellow Cab, which Elon also plans to do with his loop.
It has nothing to do with subways, and costs 1000s of times less, is quicker, more flexible and 3d. Its also the very first one, take a breath.
What's actually disgusting is that no one in authority has demanded a proof of concept of any of the hyperloop or TBC claims.
Taxi stands exist all over the world. Figuring out the max theoretical capacity per taxi spot is simple. Observing the maximum real world flow at the old Laguardia Terminal 1 taxi stand would be simple.
Demand proof of how any proposed system would be better.
In the case of the TBC loop, for the price of a couple miles of asphalt a demonstration system could be running on the surface.
The fact no one demanded such a demonstration really shows incompetence.
It's even worse. TUM in Germany even started a Hyperloop research project. That's normalizing Musk's pseudoscience and bs on an academic level.
@@Bushprowler Hype interests the students I suppose.
But a proper research project would be working on a technology demonstration of the most useful aspect first.
So where are the 300mph pods that could be used and then improved by the tube system?
@@Bushprowler This crap is happening everywhere. Fools and their money are soon parted.
The sad reality is that a person could have the cure for cancer, but would not make it happen because they can't sell it. Science is a hard skill to learn. Marketing and hyping is a monetarily more valuable skill.
Corruption at its core
Are you implying that governments don't make competent decisions? I'm shocked!
I do have one question, how is a fire truck supposed to get in the tunnel anyway, and an ambulance for that matter?
If you can't walk/run away from a wreck, you'll be found by cadaver dogs in a week or two.
@@commonsenseskeptic Assuming that you can actually open the car doors. Right now I'm wondering if you would be able to leave the car inside of the tunnel without climbing through the trunk.
@@commonsenseskeptic Was wondering about the tight spacing of cars. Should one break down would the one behind have enough time to break? Chances of pileup? Even at 35mph, 136 feet is break distance. Would the cars in the tunnel be far apart enough? And in the event of a collision, chances of car doing an Evergiven and wedging into tunnel sides? Christ, the cavalier attitude to human life is criminal.
That's just planning for failure, and we all know Musk never fails.
The same way a fire truck or an ambulance gets in a subway. They don’t because there are alternatives.
Now that I've taken the time to look at the plan for the larger "Vegas Loop" scheme ("a 29-mile tunnel network connecting 51 stations throughout the resort corridor"), as opposed to the currently operational part, which is the "Las Vegas Convention Center Loop" it's pretty obvious that this system will never be able to routinely achieve the claimed 100+ mph speeds. It looks like there are only two segments more than a mile long. The primary advantages of a Personal Rapid Transit system over larger capacity transit are: more frequent (nearly on-demand) departure times, and potentially faster transit times because individual vehicles don't have to stop at any of the intermediary stations.
This is insanity! Can the fanboys really not see? Then the Emperor indeed has no clothes!
No clothes, but shiny RGB lights for the show!
@@verynice5574 That's a good point. However you make an assumption. You don't know how the contract is formulated. Promises, predictions and expectations (especially in the media) are very different from real life. Also what you call slander I believe is justified when you consider how less effective this project is compared to known and tested forms of transportation. Like most of Musks projects are heavily subsidised and either never amount to anything or are often 10-20 times more expensive and produce far less of the capacity compared to conventional technology. The results when finally delivered are often scrappy and you wonder where all the money went.
@@verynice5574 Because this is all a publicity stunt to circle jerk around Musk and massive advertising campaign for Tessla.
Pretty cheap advertisement for Tessla cars, even with fines, and media outlets fawning over Musk again, feeding his ego. Small price to pay for someone with the money to do so.
@@verynice5574 nicely said.
fun fact is they know and walk around naked because it's cool..... naked is the new thing... heading so fast into idiocracy.
Few other criticisms you didn't point out...
1) 62 vehicles, which seem to encompass all of Tesla's models, would likely have an ASP of $60k. That's $3.72 million for the "shuttles".
2) Tesla seemingly received a no bid contract. Tesla and TBC are two separate companies, so why did Tesla get chosen to provide the shuttles by default? There are plenty of companies producing electric cars that could have worked in the tunnels, and I'm sure another OEM would have been happy to build actual electric shuttles.
3) If you map the walking path, from the stations to the front of the convention center, it's only about .5 miles, so about a 10 minute walk.
4) If you look at the driving paths, dedicated shuttle buses, even electric buses, could easily have performed this same task. I imagine 6 e-buses would have done the trick, which at $750k a pop, would have cost $4.5 million... $750k more than the Tesla shuttles. Except that no tunnels would have been needed, saving $53 million. They'd have only needed 6 drivers instead of 62, saving millions more per year.
5) The potential fine is a drop in the bucket for Tesla. Keep in mind that Tesla doesn't directly pay for advertisements. This tunnel IS their advertisement, which was mostly funded by Vegas taxpayers. (Through a room tax.. so it was a tax on tourists) Think about it. The loop will potentially transport millions of people in Tesla vehicles that can be bought today on Tesla's website. The original intent of skyrocketing passengers to over 100 mph in this tiny tunnel system in a Tesla was meant to wow them into buying a Tesla, just like Tesla does at every vehicle unveiling when they have quick test rides setup with lights, smoke, and rapid acceleration through a rainbow tunnel. Passengers will be wowed by how quickly the tunnel transports them over a LONG half mile. Honestly, most people don't really understand how short a distance that is, so only being in the taxi for 1 minute will seem like the Tesla did something incredible. It takes literally one minute for a car traveling at 30 mph to travel half a mile. It isn't amazing... but passengers won't know that as they travel through the claustrophobic tunnel.
It really makes you wonder why Vegas effectively built a $53 million stage, +$4 million for Tesla vehicles, + millions more for drivers for the sole purpose of Tesla advertising their vehicles. The LVCVA is effectively the advertising branch of the Vegas government, read their wiki... Their goal is to create things to lure people to Vegas. That said, Nevada certainly has a huge stake in Tesla... being that they gave Tesla 10-20 years of tax abatements for building their gigafactory there, along with hundreds of millions of dollars in tradable credits that they can sell, with more prospects of Tesla expansion in the state. The land Tesla build their factory on in Nevada was given to them for free by the land owner. Nevada's Harry Reid was Senate Majority leader with the federal tax credit legislation went into effect, and when Tesla received a $465 million DOE loan that funded their purchase of NUMMI on the cheap. The company was on the brink of bankruptcy at the time, only had 900 employees, and up to that point had only produced fewer than 2000 roadsters.
The more you read about it, the more corrupt it seems. Tesla's other factories were heavily funded by the government. No wonder their costs are so low!
I bet this gets re-purposed in later years for other sponsoring electric car manufacturers, or perhaps, sci-fi underground exhibits. Great escape 4D? Visit Futurama's old New York?
I don't understand what the Tesla engineers are thinking.
They could easily fake the automated shuttle concept using an analog system that just follows a painted line down the tunnel.
But I guess that's not neural networky enough for their blockchain.
@@StinkPickle4000 Remember those little old timey cars at theme parks that were on rails that you could ride around a little set path? All they had was a go pedal, that moved you at like 3-5 mph. They should do that with this...just sayin'. lol! Wouldn't even need to waste huge battery packs on electric cars... just have it like a trolly with electric lines on the ceiling.
@@pointmanzero lol... good point. But then maybe a hijacker would get into the tunnel and paint a curved line into the wall... ie Wile E Coyote style. I couldn't say that it wouldn't be hilarious.
@@updlate4756 Yes! Lil trolly rides for the stans to pretend they live the Ludicrous future!
The fact they're not using FSD here speaks to the depth of the problem that is automation, so many people are just like mAchInE LEaRn It Robot WILL take over!! Automating this safely is understandably difficult because of how close the machines operate to people. Crosswalks for example make this an automation non-starter in a lot of ways. It looks like they could have engineered a lot of those problems out but it seems they just rushed this out, or at least spent $0 on R&D, pure development project here.
Why do I feel this will end up on Fascinating Horror within a decade?
Would not have expected to see this comment, but that's exactly what I thought! The reasoning sounds a lot like the one behind the Kaprun Disaster: Fire is unlikely, so wee don't need any precautions... :/
It's gonna end up like Mark's Zukerberg satelit. And then they're gonna come up with this ufo video record. Simple as that.
@@mrmarrel In fact there are precautions, each car has an HEPA filter against smoke. The tunnel also has a ventilation system, just a small one since those cars do not consume oxygen.
Isn't it time to tell Elon that when a transit system follows a pre-determined route, you can put it on rails and thus you don't need a vehicle you can steer? I mean, those pods, on rails, is totally doable. We have something similar in London, it's called the Docklands Light Railway. And it's electric, but due to an advanced system of central generating technology, doesn't have to carry batteries around.
@jaxtraw woah woah woah go easy with these futuristic ideas you’re suggesting all at once.
My brain is still in recovery mode after taking in so many important high level ideas
An advanced system of central generating technology, like the trams they had in the 1800s. Still more technologically advanced than the Vegas Loop.
"advanced system of central generating technology". How would it look like if Elon would "re-invent" that? Cars carrying charged batteries around?
The UK also has Ultra PRT, which ferries passengers around Heathrow airport.
@@frankfahrenheit9537 I think it might mean Teslas in tunnels carrying batteries from a solar farm to a "power bank" in your town, and then driving the discharged batteries back to the solar farm to be recharged.
Ok maybe it's the fact that I used to have a diagnoses of epilepsy whilst I was a teenager (it got removed after I hadn't had a fit in 4 years the month after I turned 19), but the lights in the tunnels of the Loop straight up do my head in and give me a headache.
I've no idea how any driver could endure that for the two 4 hour shifts they'd be driving. Frankly I feel bad for the poor souls because whilst it may give me a headache within a few minutes, even if they are resistent to it, they'll be in there for a long time.
Where is the complete routing software to make sure that a station doesn't get overloaded and congestion backs up in the tunnels?
That congestion disaster is awaiting the first day of a fully attended CES.
As soon as I saw the size of the tunnels, I said to myself, what happens when one of the Teslas goes up in flames? And that's not a possibility, that's an inevitability.
A mathematical certainty. OTHER tunnels have actual fire drills where they light a vehicle on fire and test the response. Some of those tests have even gotten out of hand and caused emergencies themselves.
When are they going to be torching a Model3 midway down a shaft to conduct that test?
@@commonsenseskeptic Muskrat on a similar comment came out with a sterile scenario where the cars ahead of the fireball just drive out, and the ones behind just drive back to safety, and All Is Well. Absolutely ZERO thought given to human nature, and the way people behave when they're trapped. I was trapped in the backseat of a crashed car (on the side of the highway to Vegas) about 11 years ago. The front right wheel had fallen off. Car pulled up behind us, lady ran up and screamed "Your truck is on fire!" then ran away. I tried to open the door. CHILDLOCK. BIL and Brother scramble out the front, now I'm stuck in the back with SIL. Do I gallantly say "After you madam?" Do I f*ck. I scrambled out of that that bloody thing in sheer panic BECAUSE I DID NOT WANT TO DIE IN A BALL OF FIRE. Imagine how worse, in a similar scenario in that stupid, stupid little tunnel, with smoke filling the space and reducing vis to ZERO. Imagine tumbling out, many people overweight, luggage and crap spilling out, people with health issues (sight, hearing, breathing, walking), children, cars still piling in (break speed @ 35pmh is what? 130feet? That's gonna take a while to shake out. The people in those cars freaking out, every one scrambling over one another in animal panic.
I guess the muskrats have spent so much of their lives mistaking CGI for Reality that when it hits them they won't know what's happened. As an old friend once said "I've stopped waiting for people to deal with reality, now I'm waiting for reality to deal with them".
They burn very slowly so you have more time to escape than from an exploding gas tank.
@@commonsenseskeptic Would you mind posting your math showing it's a certainty?
When I tried to figure out the likelihood of a fire in a tunnel, I started with Tesla's record of 1 fire every 205 million miles. Of the 22 documented Tesla fires I found, 20 have been Model S or X, and 2 have been Model 3, of which there are about 10x more on the road than Model S & X. So that's roughly 100x less likely for a Model 3 to catch fire than a Model S, probably due to the non-removable battery, which is harder to puncture. So that comes to a Model 3 fire every 20 billion miles or so. It looks like they're going with Model 3s so far.
If they manage to achieve 4400 passengers an hour capacity, assuming 4 passengers per vehicle, that's 1100 trips per hour, and I'll assume the average passenger isn't going to do a round trip, but go one way or about a mile, so 1100 miles per hour. So that's about 10 million miles per year. At that rate, they'd hit 20 billion miles or 1 fire every 2000 years.
Of course if they switch to Model X, at 100x more likely to catch fire, that'll take it down to 1 fire every 20 years or so. Though, we should consider road debris that could puncture the battery is going to be rarer in that tunnel than on the highway.
Did I screw up on my calculations? Or are my assumptions off?
@@SodaPopin5ki Your assumptions are off. You are comparing stats of road and highway driving with wider lanes and shoulders to a very tight tunnel, where a vehicle has to pass by any point in the tunnel every 2.4 seconds to hit their target. That’s closer together than the three-second rule used by safe drivers. And you’re assuming 4 pax per vehicle, which take longer to load in an out, which makes the vehicle have to travel faster to hit their lap time.
All the way around, walking is a better solution.
People who think that in the event of an accident, passengers will simply get out & start walking, while all the cars in front will continue & all the cars behind will back up" evidently have not witnessed very many automobile collisions, which often end up with cars jammed together & pointed in very different directions than the original direction of travel. And these people have even less experience trying to extricate passengers (not all of whom are nimble enough to quickly shimmy out through a broken-out window). Then factor in collisions not at 30mph but at even half the claimed 150mph (eventual) speed (which is probably enough to easily rupture the battery pack case) to the mix, and the occupants trapped by doors jammed are dead before the tunnel is clear, and long before first responders get there.
Oh man, I honestly can't believe people are psyched over an overpriced tunnel.
This video is gonna be great
You forgot the fact that it is also "a thrill drive". Nothing is more thrilling than sitting in a car that goes up to 30mph in a tunnel. Elon Musk did it again. He revolutionized transporting once again. Also inventing a tunnel is pretty big deal as well. Is there anything he can't do? Thank you Elon Musk, very cool.
Looks like Main Sewer Line with High Tech RGB LEDs..... Just needs add some Techno Music.
It’s actually a super cheap tuned. Just 20 million per mile. This is a cost saving measure
@@andrew20146 Source to that price? Let me guess, Elon Musk’s tweet?
@@Frank72364 source is this video. It's also public record. $52.5M for the project. Note, the next lowest bid was $650 M.
Jesus! I can't believe how potentially calamitous things can get. How the in the world did all that you have pointed out escape their attention. Incredibly dangerous.
I know, it's hard to believe. There must be some kind of fire suppression, but as the video points out, water sprinklers would be hopeless in putting out a battery fire, and if the cars are bumper-bumper during a fire, the flames would easy spread, igniting nearby cars resulting in a chain reaction.
I agree, I seriously fear for the people using this thing especially the elderly and young children. How could this farce be approved by the Las Vegas fire chief? Seems to me a lot of people were paid off to look the other way when it came to fire safety.
@@michaelsteffensen6844 There is no fire suppression, they showed the specs of the contract for the tunnel @9:34 and it stated NO next to Fire Sprinklers and NO next to Fire and Smoke Alarms.
The US president won the election by promising to ban fossil fuels, without which food production becomes impossible.
We're in Idiocracy.
@@phamnuwen9442 wow we must have starved to death before Mr Benz produced the first gas powered car. How long was it before we made the tractors? Your f**king brilliant! Idiocy indeed.
The sad part is the city is going forward with more of these garbage project. Waste of money and infrastructure opportunity.
US in a nutshell.
And now Las Vegas has approved 60 more stations of this waste of money. Speaking of waste of money, TBC estimates fares of $10 to go FIVE MILES. New York subway gets by with fares of $2.75 to go almost anywhere.
They're not going to learn until somebody dies on this thing.
@@commonsenseskeptic For real. I'd wager it'd be safer and more effective just to loan out bicycles to pedal down the loop. As a resident, I'm very salty about this. All I want is decent transit.
Oh yes, this exercise in stupidity is FAR from over.
Imagine the employees at TBC's. They must have screaming nightmares every night.
No kidding!! Good lord, I cant even imagine being one of those shuttle drivers. I'd lose my mind.
They sold away their dignity
@@theinitiate110 trying to control the passengers in that central station will be bedlam when it gets busy.
At least it will be useful as a public shelter in case Musk' flying car makes it into production.
Come and gamble in Vegas! with your life.
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas......IN A GRAVE!
8:18 this is incorrect, a tesla will in fact not slow down for a crosswalk. They typically maintain speed if not increase speed, so this will not be a problem. Unless you are a pedestrian in the crosswalk.
Seeing those cars crawling through the crappy (sic) tunnel reminds me of the sewer scene from the original 'The Italian Job' film (1969) with Michael Caine.
At one point the gang's getaway cars - three Mini Coopers - dive into Turin's sewer system to escape the cops. [Nerd note: the filming actually took place in Coventry, England.]
They zoom along at high speed, swooping dangerously up and down the curved walls... I wonder if that's where Ego Muskrat got [i.e. stole] the idea from. There's certainly a lot of sh*t involved.🤭
If you'd like another movie with a Mini, try to find "Goodbye Pork Pie" (1981).
It's a Kiwi classic and yes, it's pretty much how we rolled back then.
This reminds me of Ford's 1964 World's Fair Magic Skyway, in which you could ride around a loop in a brand new Mustang or other Ford vehicles in hopes of selling more cars. However, that 57-year-old ride is arguably better than the Vegas Loop because the Magic Skyway rode on a track system that required no driver, that allowed you to fit 4-5 people in the cars, the cars were not running no real risk of breakdown or fires, and it was on a constantly moving track that allowed loading and unloading to be seemless. Ford claimed that 2,000 people per hour rode the Magic Skyway.
To be fair those cars are unlikely to catch fire, there is one Tesla fire every 205 million miles versus 19 million miles for the US auto average.
I know this is an old comment but I just wanted to point it a comparison fallacy here.
You’re comparing the average of Tesla fires to the average of all car fires.
Teslas are newer, more expensive cars that require at home charging stations, so they’re driven by people who can afford to maintain them.
Gas cars driven on the street are much older on average and are driven by people in nearly all income brackets, including many who can’t afford to properly maintain them.
So the numbers are apples to oranges. Once the Tesla fleet starts aging more, once the infrastructure is there to open up EVs to more income brackets, the numbers will change.
Based on the subtitles, it looks like the tunnel fire happened in Norway. We have lots of tunnels here, because 70% of the country is mountain range. There is no way in hell that dank neon tunnel of pungent Musk would be approved here.
It’s amazing how many aspects of the design show that humans are the last thing that Musk cares about.